A Month Before Steven Avery Was Framed for the Murder, He Expressed His Fear of the Police

Man wrongly imprisoned is still adjusting to freedom

By Tom Sheehan, The Journal Times, Racine, WI
October 3, 2005

When Steven Avery recently heard his name broadcast over the police scanner, he turned off the lights and hid inside his trailer home.

Avery has reason to fear police - not because he's wanted, but because he spent 18 years on prison for a crime he didn't commit.

Avery had nothing to worry about, but his mother, Delores, and his brother, Chuck, had to assure the 43-year-old Two Rivers man he wasn't in trouble. A police dispatcher mentioned his name while describing the location of nearby property where suspicious activity occurred.

Avery listens to the scanner as part of his job with Avery's Auto Salvage, where he drives the tow truck and prepares cars for storage by draining oil and removing gas tanks. The work at the company, started by his father and owned by his brothers, keeps his mind occupied so he doesn't dwell too long on the life that's been robbed from him.

"When I'm working like eight hours a day, I don't think about nothin'," Avery said.

Since being released from prison two years ago, thanks to DNA evidence and the Wisconsin Innocence Project, Avery has enjoyed some of his newfound freedom. He especially enjoys going for drives in his 2002 Ford F-350 pickup truck or his '93 Grand Am.

But when he has time to reflect on what happened, emotions build up. He'll never know if he could have kept his marriage together or what kind of father he would have been to five children if he weren't behind bars. Maybe some of the arguments he had with his ex-wife wouldn't have happened. Maybe he'd be running the family business.

"Mostly when I'm by myself, sometimes it hits me - all what I went through. I'll be driving down the road and that, and I have to pull over. I break up in tears and everything else," Avery said.

Avery admits having trouble adjusting to life "on the outside." He moved in and out of the homes of relatives before he settling in the borrowed trailer. He remains in touch with just one of his five children, he said.

He also has had a run-in with the law since being released. In March, he pleaded no contest and paid a $243 penalty for a municipal disorderly conduct citation for being "involved in an altercation," according to the Manitowoc County Clerk of Courts office.

Some of the difficulties may explain why Avery doesn't exude the sense of relief you might expect to see from someone recently released from prison. On the other hand, he also doesn't readily convey a sense of bottled rage you might expect from a man wrongly imprisoned.

Avery is approachable, conversational and soft-spoken, especially for someone who's been hounded by media attention. His face has been plastered all over newspapers and television news makes him an easy target for chat in the Two Rivers area. He doesn't mind, but his mother has gotten to the point she no longer wants to go to grocery shop with him because so many people want to stop and talk, Avery said. Prisoners who insist they are innocent also call for help, and sometimes he believes them.

Avery said he hopes a bill that passed the Assembly last week will help prevent wrongful convictions. Among other things, it would revise the way suspects are identified in police lineups.

"I think they're starting to realize what really went wrong. Before, they didn't think this could happen," Avery said of police in his case.

Avery said he doesn't hold a grudge against the sexual assault victim who wrongly fingered him as the suspect. But he's not ready to forgive and forget law enforcement and court officials, who failed to thoroughly investigate his case, he said.

He's convinced police still do sloppy work on some investigations. As evidence, Avery offers that his fiance was wrongly convicted of drunken driving - a fourth offense. Avery said he knows she's innocent because he was driving her car when it went into a ditch on a foggy day in May 2004.

Avery said she's is in jail because police found mud on her clothes, suggesting she got out of the driver's door. Avery said she got mud on her when she climbed out of the driver's side. He claims police never even interviewed him about the incident, which he said occurred the day he met the woman. She was working at a gas station when Avery asked her if she wanted to go for a ride.

Sounds a bit hard to believe, but Avery's been doubted before.

Tom Sheehan can be reached at tsheehanmadison.com or (608) 252-6198.

Never seen this discussed
submitted by dark-dare

I read this in a comment section somewhere else, and thought, interesting, I have not seen this discussed.

The writer asked, what about the taped phone calls from the jail in the days preceding Oct 31.

In those tapes did SA [Steven] mention to JS [Jodi] that he was calling the photographer to come out and take pics of Barb's van?

With one of the stumbling blocks being that SA only called at 8:30 that morning, how would LE know that TH was coming, so they could set something up?

BINGO!!! They were listening to the phone calls between SA and JS. This would explain enough advance notice for them to be prepared, lying in wait to exact their evil plan. Of course SA would say something to JS in passing. It makes sense. I think this is one small piece of the puzzle we have all been working on. Barb and SA could have discussed this days ahead of time, SA new she came out on Mondays and called for the appointment.

[–]JazzDad01

I think given what we learned about LE using routine surveillance on Gregory Allen years prior, it's not unreasonable to assume SA was being watched quite closely as those depositions were underway and his suit was on the docket. I'm thinking his knowingly recorded conversations with his honey in the jailhouse are the least of it.

[–]JJacks61

I actually think they had been watching him for months. The civil suit was filed October 2004. Plenty of time to "work something out".

[–]Ispywithmylittleeyes

There is a recording of a woman officer or was a dispatcher that said "that SA couldn't take a shit without MTSO knowing about it. So, ya they were watching and listening for their chance. With Jodi in jail, there goes his alibi.

[–]87mave

First I've heard of that. Where is that recording?

[–]foghaze 2 points 18 days ago

It's in the collection of dispatch calls IIRC.

[–]DarthLurker

Here you go.

https://youtu.be/GrzJQq2EkO4?t=19m26s

[–]What_a_Jem 10 points 18 days ago

I have often thought they had his phones tapped, but your suggestion works as well.

[–]Diane1959

I think the fact that JS was arrested on 10/30 speaks volumes of their plan to frame SA. She had been arrested the day before TH went missing for not paying her fines. Convenient in that SA would no longer have an alibi. I think the assumption was that she had been in jail longer. It is confirmed on CCAP that it was only one day.

[–]no_idea_4_names

Wasn't JS in jail as of August 2005?

[–]Diane1959

No she was arrested 10/30 for failure to pay fines. See below arrest record from court system. A lot of people think she had been in jail but she was actually out from her DWI. Would love to see her records to see who ordered her arrest on 10/30.

Date Event Court Official

10-30-2005 Warrant/Capias/Commitment served

Event Party Stachowski, J

Additional Text: Copy of Order for Arrest and Commitment on Failure to Pay returned from Sheriff's Department indicating commitment served from 10-30-05 - 12-20-05 with 16 days good time credit.

[–]no_idea_4_names

That's hugely significant!! More you know the worse you feel!

I did see on the court records that after her tv interview, there were outstanding fines suddenly settled, unpaid. How could that be? I can't remember exactly what it said as it was months back. But it definitely said something along those lines.

[–]SilkyBeesKnees

Yeah, pretty sure they'd have him under surveillance. SOP for them.

[–]foghaze

Also if they had surveillance on him (even SA was paranoid at the time he was being watched) they would know that Teresa went out there about every 2-3 weeks and it was always on Mondays from 2-3pm. It was like clockwork. If they were watching him it wouldn't have taken long at all to figure this out. She was scheduled certain areas on certain days. After a couple of times they would have figured out her scheduled time was Mondays. All they would need to do is schedule the luring appointment on the 2nd and 3rd Monday from the last time Avery made an appointment. He fixed up vehicles for extra cash. FRW, I think they were also listening to his calls as well.

[–]Cant_u_see

THEY HAD BEEN WATCHING HIM CLOSELY FOR MONTHS. They were using Randant's deer camp for surveillance, and AC was out there buying parts and befriending SA brother as part of a covert surveillance and fact finding information gathering operation.

[–]dark-dare[S]

Sorry, we do not know that for a fact. I tend to believe AC found her after an accident or the Zips were involved, but I do not know for sure. There is too many questions we do not have answers for to rule anything out 100%

[–]Rasmosus

So now I wonder whether there is any documentation of who listened to the phone surveillance tapes and when?

[–]dark-dare[S]

Wonder if those tapes still exist?

[–]Kratzaphobic

This makes a great deal of sense! No need top tap phones or lie in the bushes somewhere, watching the comings and goings of TH & SA ...I really like this thought. ( ;

[–]dark-dare[S]

Puzzle piece that fits!

[–]foghaze

Absolutely I think he was. I found an article where SA was interviewed 4 weeks prior to TH going missing and seems he was very paranoid and knew LE were up to something. It's also mentioned by Martinez in CASO. Martinez said SA thought TH was watching him. He knew someone was watching him but not sure who. I have no doubts LE had something set up and SA knew it too. He felt it in his gut.

http://journaltimes.com/news/local/tom-sheehan-man-wrongly-imprisoned-is-still-adjusting-to-freedom/article_bf751275-f234-53d8-b717-81cf33636125.html

[–]bennybaku

Could this possibly be why he used *67 to call her number?

[–]deplorablaw

You mean maybe he had some idea in his head that if he shielded his number it might help prevent someone bugging his phone or keeping track of who he called? Why has this not been mentioned before? Why would this not be a good explanation? I think if I were paranoid I'd be doing this quite often.

[–]bennybaku

Exactly.

[–]foghaze

    Could this possibly be why he used *67 to call her number?

I think it was a combination of things. He was a local celebrity and I can see why he would use this feature often. Some liked him some hated him. I would probably use *67 if it were someone I did not personally know very well and well known in the community. He also probably thought it was a neat feature being he had been in prison for 20 years and it was all new to him and he most likely didn't understand proper phone etiquette when using it also. We think it's a big deal using it but for him he had never heard of it before. Most likely thought everyone did it and it was not a big deal.

[–]bennybaku

I would agree with you for the most part, but he has called her before without the #67.

[–]foghaze

    would agree with you for the most part, but he has called her before without the #67.

Perhaps he got to thinking she wasn't answering because she didn't know who it was and didn't block it the last time? Or he could have done it so often he just didn't realize he was doing it or he did it the first time and just hit redial the second time. The 3rd time he decided to unblock it. I don't think there is much to his intent with using *67 to call her and is as simple as him wanting to protect his identity.

[–]bennybaku

This could be, no doubt about it. But there was an intent for using it, because he didn't use it in all of the other calls he made that day.

[–]foghaze

    because he didn't use it in all of the other calls he made that day.

Well all the other calls were to businesses and the other calls were to people he knew. He didn't really need to use it with his other calls.

[–]bennybaku

Yet he did know TH. He had called her before, so something changed, his paranoia warned him to dial carefully.

FROM CASO FILE:

PAGE 283

TYPE OF ACTIVITY: Interviews of following:

Andres F. Martinez

DATE OF ACTIVITY: 11/16/05

REPORTING OFFICER: Inv. Wendy Baldwin

On 11/16/05 Special Agent KIM SKORLINSKI and I (BALDWTN made contact with ANDRES F. MARTINEZ (Ph) At the MANITOWOC COUNTY JAIL. ANDRES was interviewed about possible contact he may have had with STEVEN AVERY. See Special Agent KIM SKORLINSKI's report on details of that interview.

TYPE OF ACTIVITY: Interview of: Andres F. Martinez
Green Bay Correctional Institute
Green Bay. WI

DATE OF ACTIVITY: 11/29/06

REPORTING OFFICER: Inv. Mark Wiegert

On 11/29/06, I (INV. WIEGERT OF THE CALUMET COUINTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT), along with DCI Special Agent TOM FASSBENDER, went to the GREEN BAY CORRECTIONAL INSTITUTE to interview ANDRES MARTINEZ. Itshould be noted I was informed by Lt. LENK OF THE MANITOWOC COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT that MARTINEZ had recently been transported to GREEN BAY CORRECTIONAL INSTITUTE from their county jail. Lt. LENK stated MARTINEZ had made statements to the transport officer about knowing STEVEN AVERY and also having information about the murder of TERESA HALBACH.  

At approximately 10:00 a.m., Special Agent FASSBENDER and I did meet with MARTINEZ in an interview room at the correctional institute. Special Agent FASSBENDER and I identified ourselves to MARTINEZ. MARTINEZ stated that he was not sure he wanted to talk to us now. He stated he had tried to get a hold of us about a month or so ago and has since changed his mind. I informed MARTINEZ that was his right and he did not need to talk with us; however, we informed him that his information could be helpful in the homicide case.

MARTINEZ stated he was friends with STEVEN AVERY. He also told us he would commonly go to the junk yard sometimes as often as a couple times aday. MARTINEZ told us STEVEN AVERY told him he (meaning STEVEN AVERY) thought TERESA HALBACH was coming to his house to pinpoint him for a crime he did not commit. I asked MARTINEZ if STEVEN thought TERESA was spying on him to which MARTINEZ stated that is what STEVEN told him he believed was happening. I asked MARTINEZ if STEVEN mentioned TERESA by name to which MARTINEZ stated STEVEN did. MARTINEZ also told us STEVEN AVERY told him STEVEN said he wanted to dispose of her (meaning TERESA). MARTINEZ also told us STEVEN had shown him a little book, which had TERESA's phone number in it. Again, MARTINEZ stated STEVEN believed TERESA was spying on him for a crime he was innocent of.

MARTINEZ also told us STEVEN would commonly mention a baggie TERESA had that he wanted to get.

MARTINEZ then stated he remembers on one occasion STEVEN and he were up on a hill with a truck in the salvage yard. MARTINEZ indicated STEVEN had a camera with him and he (meaning MARTINEZ) and STEVEN observed TERESA drive into the salvage area and STEVEN took his camera out and was taking pictures of TERESA as she drove in. MARTINEZ also told us he remembers STEVEN calling TERESA a little cunt. I asked MARTINEZ when this would have happened, if it would have been before TERESA's death that he told her these things or after to which MARTINE Z stated this would have been before TERESA's death and disappearance.

MARTINEZ told us he did not believe STEVEN would tell anybody else because his brothers would have probably told the police. MARTINEZ states STEVEN and he got along very well and STEVEN trusted him and that is whv he would tell him these things. I questioned MARTINEZ about specific information STEVEN had told him about the death and/or disappearance of TERESA HALBACH. MARTINEZ stated he did not want to talk about it. MARTINEZ stated his son, JAMES, did not wish him to get involved in the case and he did not want to say anymore about it. MARTINEZ stated he was going to be meeting with his son this week and he would send us a letter indicating if he wished to speak with us anymore reference this case. I then provided MARTINEZ with a business card and thanked him for his cooperation at which time we left the interview room.

PAGE 1007

TYPE OF ACTIVITY: Receipt of Letter from Andres Martinez
DATE OF ACTIVITY: 12/05/06
REPORTING OFFICER: Inv. Mark Wiegert

On 12/05/06, I (Inv. MARK WIEGERT of the CALUMET CO. SHERIFF'S DEPT.) received a letter from ANDRES MARTINEZ WHO WOULD BE AN INMAtE AT GREEN BAY CORRECTIONAL INSTITUTION. The letter was dated 12/04/06. The following will be the content of the letter:

"Dear Mr. Mark, Do to no visit, I'm Sorry to inform you that there's no possible way for me to help you with the truth in Mss. Halbach case I pray for her famity to get the justice they deserve. I feel sorry for not coming forward with what I know about Mr. steve A. I pray that you find good justice in this case. Just a note to tell you that I won't be coming forward to tell what I have heard. Sorry Andres"

A copy of this letter will be included with this report. 

In Sep '04, MTSO requested backup at Avery Rd for a 911 hangup call BEFORE there was actually a 911 hangup call 

By MsMinxster at TickTockManitowoc

Something about SA’s Sep 2004 MTSO incident report (family fight/DVOA) struck me as really odd:

• 11:42:01 JS called 911, gave her address, said she would call back, then the call was disconnected
• 11:42:30 The 911 dispatcher tried to call JS back and got no answer
• 11:44:14 MTSO Cummings dispatched

Here’s the odd part:

As I (CUMMINGS) was responding, Chief Gilbert (Mishicot PD) advised me that he was parked at the end of Avery Rd amd STH 147, awaiting my arrival.

Cummings was dispatched 2 minutes after the 911 dispatcher's 1st failed callback attempt to JS. How was Chief G already waiting at the end of Avery Rd at 11:44:14? The MTSO report shows he wasn’t requested as backup until after the 3rd callback attempt/no answer at 11:50:34.

I asked the amazing /u/Minerva8918 if she could wrangle a copy of Chief G's report from Mishicot PD for me (she did!) hoping it would clear up the confusion (it didn't).

---

According to the Mishicot PD report:

On 9/4/04 at approximately 11:41 p.m., I, Chief Gilbert was requested by Lt. Hermann of the Sheriff’s Department to assist with a 911 hang-up at 129XX Avery Road, Mishicot. The Sheriff’s Department requested that I stand-by at the intersection of Avery Road and HWY 147 to monitor for any vehicles leaving the area.

Lt. Hermann requested Chief G’s assistance before JS’s call was even logged as a hang up. I guess we could chalk this up to another typo or sloppy report writing. EXCEPT, I would expect more accuracy from Chief G given he’s a Criminal Justice Instructor at a nearby college and teaches a course on “Law Enforcement Report Writing”.

Why the urgency for Lt Hermann to personally request Chief G’s help?

• If Lt Hermann was worried about the caller’s safety, why didn’t he tell Chief G to go straight to SA’s trailer instead of waiting at the end of Avery Rd?
• The 911 dispatcher was unable to reach the caller but how did Lt Hermann know the caller would be leaving SA’s trailer? For all Hermann knows, the caller could be injured or worse while Chief G is twiddling his thumbs at the end of Avery Rd. The officers don’t learn until later that, according to JS, SA dragged her out of the trailer.

---

More of Chief G’s report:

While speaking to Avery, I observed a female subject in the passenger side of the vehicle who appeared to be teary eyed and visually upset. I asked Steven if there was a problem tonight with those two and he stated that he and his girlfriend just had a disagreement. At this time, I asked the female party to exit the vehicle and step to the rear of it to talk to me.
Once at the rear of my patrol vehicle, I informed the female subject who was identified as JS that we are there to help her and she needs to inform us what is really going on this evening. JS was very hesitant to provide any information stating to this officer that she is “Afraid” of Steven. JS informed this officer that she thought that her house was broken into and that is why she dialed 911. I informed JS that it is this officer belief that is not the correct story of what happened tonight—

Wait. What? How does Chief G know what happened? So far this incident was only reported as a 911 hang up.

---

A little background on Chief G:

• Prior to becoming Mishicot Police Chief in ‘02, Chief G spent 8 years 10 months (April 1991 – January 2000) working for Sheriff Kocourek at MTSO as a full-time Corrections Officer (12/92-2/00); part time Deputy Sheriff (4/92-12/92); and a Reserve Deputy (4/91-4/92).
• ASY is located in Mishicot but during the 8 day search of the property following TH’s disappearance, Mishicot Police Chief G spends less than 70 minutes helping with the search. He arrived on Nov 7, moments before retired MTSO Bushy’s discovery of possible remains at Kuss Rd and stayed for 69 minutes. That’s it. Much like retired MTSO Bushy, this was the only day Chief G visited the property.

---

Moving on:

…and she again informed me that she is afraid of Steven and that he will hurt her. After a short time of talking to JS, she stated that earlier this evening she had called Steven’s sister to find out when he would be back from up north and that upset Steven that she was checking on him. JS informed this officer that Steven did punch her in the right rib area and punched her in the right temple area. JS stated to this officer that Steven then choked her and then she passed out. JS indicates that she did wake up at which time he was dragging out of the house by her arms—

Again, how did Lt. Hermann know anyone would be leaving SA’s trailer? According to JS, she passed out. And if Chief G suspected something nefarious was going on in SA’s trailer, why didn’t he go straight there?

Back to the Police Report:

…she did wake up at which time SA was dragging her out of the house by her arms stating “I should get the gun and kill you”. I asked JS if there were guns in the residence and she stated there is a gun hanging on the wall that belongs to a RJ.

One year prior to TH’s death LE (including MTSO) knew SA had a shotgun in his possession. Though this was Mishicot’s report, MTSO was provided a copy.

If MTSO is convinced that SA killed TH with RJ’s gun, aren’t they equally culpable in her death for allowing a felon to be in possession of a firearm?

At this point in the report, neither Cummings nor Chief G was able to find physical evidence to support JS’s claim she was assaulted. JS admitted she had been drinking and was unwilling to complete any working paper associated with the DV. Cummings transported SA to MTSO jail and booked him for DC-DVO and Chief G drove JS back to 129XX Avery Rd (see MTSO Incident Report and Mishicot Complaint Report for full details).

---

TL;DR:

• Why the urgency for Lt Hermann to personally request Chief G’s help before dispatch has confirmed there's even a problem?
• If Lt Hermann was worried about the caller’s safety, why didn’t he tell Chief G to go straight to SA’s trailer instead of waiting at the end of Avery Rd? How did Hermann know anyone would be leaving SA's trailer?
• Prior to becoming Mishicot Police Chief in ‘02, Chief G spent 8 years working for Sheriff Kocourek at MTSO.
• One year prior to TH's death, MTSO was informed SA had shotgun hanging on his wall and they apparently didn't care.

[–]SBRH33 6 points 17 hours ago*

Very nice digging in the tall grass. A few possibilities cross my mind.

    LE was using Jodi to gather enough intell on Steve to get him locked up for something serious. Jodi's constant brushes with the law via her alcoholism gave LE plenty of leverage on Jodi since it is known to LE that her and Steve live together. Turns out Steve wasn't doing anything more than living his life, he barely left the ASY and he worked for the family business. Steve's living arrangements and work were on family/private property that they (LE) would need very solid probable cause to enter upon. A little domestic dispute perhaps? Jodi bailed on the plan working with LE to screw Steve, because Steve's civil suit started to seriously heat up. It was growing bigger legs by the day. In September those depositions were just on the horizon. $$$$$$$$

    Jodi could have become the victim. If the Jodi plan unraveled as it seemed to have done, then Jodi could have ended up possibly the victim. Jodi very fortunately landed herself a very timely DUI offense that netted her significant jail time. Pretty convenient... and lucky for her.

    Jodi would not been as high profile as TH for a sensational murder case.

    It isn't unfathomable LE had Avery under surveillance through Jodi or other means. Its apparent something was afoot given the timing of Jodi's DV call and officers seemingly already waiting at the foot of the Avery property to swoop in. If they did have Avery's trailer wired. They would have known all about the Auto Trader dealings telephonically. They could have gathered it by first hand knowledge via Jodi.... or, they could have gathered it via ST's observations. Perhaps all of the above. When did ST start dating BJ? Thats a nexus definitely worth exploring.

[–]7-pairs-of-panties 14 points 1 day ago

JS lived in RJ trailer before SA ever moved in. JS has a troubled life. I think we can assume by this that JS was being "encouraged" to roll over on SA. I think she saw $ signs and didn't want to. They then found a way to get her into jail and freed SA to be easier to frame.

They also were gonna go after the niece rape allegations but they dropped it cause they thought the TH avenue would have bigger teeth and would cause a much much bigger public outcry. The bigger the better.

This situation may have been set up w/JS earlier so that the other Officer would have a peek at the property and the grounds before showtime!

Amazing catch on this other officer coming only on the day MBushman led the burn barrel search! TK supporters run strong and deep in those parts!

[–]MsMinxster[S] 13 points 1 day ago

    I think we can assume by this that JS was being "encouraged" to roll over on SA.

Ding ding ding. She gave her statement outside of SA's hearing but refused to put anything in writing.

    Amazing catch on this other officer coming only on the day MB led the burn barrel search!

MB has been on my radar for some time now (May 6, May 23)...anyone in his/Kocourek's circle needs to feel the heat.

Thanks for your great comment ;P

[–]lilypadbitch 11 points 1 day ago

IMO JS is a pawn in their game and was set up by LE onto the Avery property to get something on SA or to make something happen. Lying Dirty Bastards!

[–]MsMinxster[S] 10 points 1 day ago

I think MTSO offered to disappear Jodi's many DWI's and keep her out of jail if she played ball. Chief G was tasked with getting to her first and getting the statement but MTSO 455 (IMO, not in on it) showed up and she chickened out.

After, she ended up in jail and Chief G, well, he's no longer in LE.

[–]iolouthief 1 point 12 hours ago

They knew about the gun but it wasn't enough to halt the lawsuit and financially drain SA. When it looks like he could actually pay for a defense and bail, they hike the cost and deny him being able to put property up. You know due to new charges and all that. With this information brought to light.. what if LE actually sacrificed her??!

[–]DarthLurker 5 points 1 day ago

If SA hit her in the ribs and temple, choked her unconscious and dragged her outside, exactly when did she call 911?

[–]MsMinxster[S] 9 points 1 day ago

    exactly when did she call 911?

Exactly when they told her too--likely at 11:40 (since Hermann called Chief G at 11:41) but she didn't call until almost 11:42 ;P

[–]MinnesotaBadger 6 points 1 day ago

You don't need to call 911 when LE is already listening....

[–]MsMinxster[S] 6 points 1 day ago

Unless you need it on the record.

[–]7-pairs-of-panties 2 points 17 hours ago

Yes, but how was he "dispatched" or called to the scene sitting there waiting before the hang up call even came in. This shows that this was premeditated and they "knew" a call was coming before it ever came. The only way for this to happen is if they pre-planned it w/ JS OR they were listening to SA's home.

[–]kdparrot 2 points 17 hours ago

Okay maybe I misread the OP, but didn't JS call, got disconnected, and then he was dispatched? 11:42- she called, two minutes later (after they tried to call her back with no answer), he was dispatched.

[–]MsMinxster[S] 2 points 15 hours ago

    but didn't JS call, got disconnected, and then he was dispatched? 11:42

That would be MTSO Cummings. He was dispatched in what I guess is the normal procedure. Chief G from Mishicot was called by Lt. Hermann at 11:41 (see his report I posted in OP) then 11:50 he was officially dispatched from 911 dispatcher.

[–]kdparrot 1 point 15 hours ago

Okay...so he was already in the area before the call came in. So, that might tie in with what I'm saying (available or nearby units dispatched to the area, which he apparently was), but I guess it's the why he was already at ASY for leaving vehicles that's the stumper.

[–]falls_asleep_reading 3 points 21 hours ago

    Jodi would not been as high profile as TH for a sensational murder case.

I'm inclined to disagree.

Under the circumstances, any murder case involving SA would have been both high-profile and sensational. If Jodi hadn't already been in jail, there might have been less scrutiny of the case--not more--if Jodi had been the victim here, and not a pretty young random photographer who, as luck would have it, just happened to have visited the property within days of the depositions in the civil suit.

[–]MsMinxster[S] 2 points 12 hours ago

Thanks SBRH33.

Funny, a few of the same possibilities crossed my mind too!

    LE was using Jodi to gather enough intell on Steve to get him locked up for something serious.

I think so too. She may not have wanted to do this but in the end it probably came down to saving her own hide or his. Sep '04 was about month before the civil suit was filed (Oct 12). According to one county executive, all three parties (county, Kocourek, Vogel) were all aware of the lawsuit well before it was actually filed and already been in touch with the insurance carrier from back in '85 about possibly covering costs. That leads me to believe that in Sep '04 they were trying to get him thrown back in jail prior to suit being filed. Like you said, SA wasn't giving them much opportunity to do that (he'd been pulled over a few months prior, in June IIRC, but that was about it). If JS had played ball, they could've escalated that DVO into an attempted murder charge (as only MTSO can do!). In their twisted little minds, they probably figured the headlines from that, plus more jail time probably would've been enough to squelch the civil suit.

    It isn't unfathomable LE had Avery under surveillance

Totally agree. IMO, MTSO (or maybe Kocourek and a select few) were quietly using Mishicot PD to surveil SA. and you're right. They were likely getting intel from JS but on that night, IMO there had to be someone else on the property that provided Hermann with additional info. How else would Hermann know JS and SA had gotten into a vehicle and were leaving SA's trailer? Even a listening device in the trailer wouldn't be full proof in that situation. More likely that someone saw them get in the car and drive off. Otherwise Hermann and Chief G are taking a huge risk just waiting at the end of Avery Rd (if they actually believed SA would hurt JS). And Hermann doesn't say, "Get to Avery Rd and wait for back up" according to Chief G, Hermann told him to "stand-by at the intersection of Avery Road and HWY 147 to monitor for any vehicles leaving the area." That's pretty specific!

[–]knowjustice 5 points 14 hours ago

This is simply amazing. Great find, Minx. It certainly raises several new issues. Considering that it took a year to discover this tidbit, Strang and Buting didn't stand a chance when it came to finding all the hidden "secrets." They did not have the time nor the resources to go through all these records with a fine-toothed comb and the State knew it.

[–]MsMinxster[S] 2 points 14 hours ago

    Strang and Buting didn't stand a chance when it came to finding all the hidden "secrets."

So many secrets! I doubt this report has ever seen the light of day. Chief G's role in the MTSO report of this incident always bugged so I took a chance that he even filed a separate report. When Minerva told me he did, I think she and I were disappointed that it was so short, and at first glance, didn't seem to offer new info. But boy it was certainly worth a thorough read ;P

[–]CatEyesStalking 3 points 17 hours ago

For this officer to have taken SA's gun he would have to had known that SA was a convicted felon. There's nothing in his report to suggest that he knew. Also, he never saw the gun. He had been told about a gun by JS. And he knew JS likely lied about being punched twice and dragged (no visible marks). LE has no liability concerning that gun. I do think it very likely that someone (LE) was after SA the minute he got out of prison from the false rape charge. For whatever reason, someone in that town had a serious vendetta against SA.

[–]SBRH33 7 points 16 hours ago*

    For this officer to have taken SA's gun he would have to had known that SA was a convicted felon.

This comment is spot on.

Suppose Steve's felony firearm conviction was never entered into the official record. Suppose it was buried in his case file.

Steven Avery himself, wasn't even aware that he was not to posses any firearms. He was never told this upon his release in 2003. None of the official paperwork stipulated the illegal firearms possession provision against Avery. So why would Steve have firearms in his residence if he KNEW it was illegal for him to have them. Simple. ....he wasn't aware of the fact.

Remember how Remiker, Lenk and Coborn searched his house. Those guns were hanging from the shelf in his bedroom then. Yet Steve was never arrested for illegal firearms possession.

They searched his house on the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th and the 8th of November and still hadn't arrested Steve for felony possession of a firearm. Why? Because it wasn't available in, or ever entered into the computer record for them to be aware of this fact. It only existed on paper, somewhere in the county clerks office.... perhaps in Steve's "box of files"

Someone dug up this hidden information and supplied it to Kratz. This information was then used to have Steve legally arrested in Crivitz..... and thus his nightmare truly began.

    Who dug up the information on Steve regarding the firearms provision? Where did the information come from? ........If the information wasn't available to Local Law Enforcement.... then how did Kratz obtain the information to use against and arrest Steven Avery for a firearms violation?

The arrest of Steven Avery for the firearms violation is an important event.

    It kept Steve from contact with the family as the ASY was being set up.
    It kept Steve from talking to the media about the very real possibility that LE were planting evidence at the ASY. Good god they couldn't have Steve broadcasting that to the good people of Wisconsin.
    It kept Steve away from his Alibi..... Brendan Dassey.
    It kept Steve from talking to Jodi.
    Importantly enough it kept Steve from talking to his attorneys.

The top of the food chain. The AG's Office.

[–]MsMinxster[S] 3 points 15 hours ago

    Suppose Steve's felony firearm conviction was never entered into the official record. Suppose it was buried in his case file.

MTSO was very well aware Steven was a convicted felon. He was arrested for pointing a gun at the wife of an MTSO deputy (his cousin) and is listed right here in his arrest record (next to the last page)

I agree with you that LE used the "felon in possession" of a firearm to arrest him, isolate him, and set the scene for painting him as armed murderer. They used that firearm charge to lock him up while they made their case. I would imagine to TH's family and the general public the "gun hanging above his bed" was more than a LE ploy. It was the first step in convincing them Steven murdered TH. Then later that same gun "turns out to be the murder weapon".

Most of the state's case against Steven was based on perception, perception about the "hard working LE that go out do their job everyday" and the perception of Steven who "has a shotgun hanging above his bed" (plus all the other details KK added).

If I were TH's family, I would want to know why the hell that gun was still in SA's possession when LE knew about the year before. MTSO's prior knowledge of that gun would begin to hack away in the confidence I had that MTSO had done their job.

[–]SBRH33 3 points 14 hours ago

If they were aware of the fact that Steve was not supposed to be in possession of any firearms due to his conviction in the past, they would have arrested him much sooner then November 9th I would think.

He wasn't arrested until he started talking to the press about the possibility LE planting evidence on the ASY. Then they went after him.

Kratz couldn't have that kind of "perceptions of planting evidence" out there in the public domain.

It dosent make sense that they would arrest him so late in the investigation if that provision was available to LE via their codis system. They knew there were guns in the house as early as September. Yet never touch him.

That kind of possession charge really wouldn't do much harm to Steve. He may get charged, he makes bail and pleads out or, he possibly does some time down the road for the possession. However, it wouldn't harm his civil suit in anyway. They needed a serious crime to pin on him.

To further the point.... why didn't Strang and Buting fight the gun charge? It was a separate charge and Steve was entitled to separate preliminary hearing for that charge.... Yet, Strang, Buting does nothing about it. Dosent fight for it at all.

I never once liked the entire felony possession charge. Something is strange about it. How it was handled between Willis, Buting and Kratz. How Steve was never bothered about it earlier when Lenk and Remiker searched his trailer on the 4th.

[–]MsMinxster[S] 3 points 15 hours ago*

    For this officer to have taken SA's gun he would have to had known that SA was a convicted felon.

The point is, this report was handed over to MTSO and became part of the MTSO report. MTSO was very well aware that Steven was convicted of pointing a firearm at "the wife of an MTSO deputy" (which how all the papers put it without mentioning it was his cousin).

ETA deputy wife part and:

    And he knew JS likely lied about being punched twice and dragged (no visible marks).

But they still arrested Steven for DV which I don't fully understand.

[–]SBRH33 1 point 14 hours ago

I get that, but out of site out of mind. I dont think Avery's updated record reflected the fact. When his exoneration happened I think his felony record went with it. He was serving the rape and gun charge concurrently I thought. So if the record got lost in the sauce I dont think anyone in LE would have known that Avery was not to posses any firearms.... unless one went back and combed through paper records. Its just a thought.

[–]MsMinxster[S] 5 points 1 day ago

    If there were no physical signs that either officer saw of abuse, and she stated she did not want to file paperwork, ( press charges) then why was SA taken to jail or charged with anything?

I've never understood that either but what /u/PayJay says makes sense. Otherwise, I just don't get it. LE detected alcohol on her breath but not his AND LE was actually gunning for SA but still stated in their reports that there were no visible signs of a physical altercation.

[–]PayJay 7 points 23 hours ago

Do you think LE more or less staged this alleged DV issue in order to begin making SA look bad? (Probably gather information at the same time?) maybe that's why the chief was just waiting there on the ready?

[–]thed0ngs0ng 2 points 13 hours ago

This DV issue appears to have been staged and would have been the perfect opportunity to plant an unlawful listening device inside of the trailer SA shared with JS.

[–]MsMinxster[S] 2 points 19 hours ago

IMO, they planned to do more than just make SA look bad. This went down about month before the civil suit was filed (Oct 12). All three parties (county, Kocourek, Vogel) knew a multi million $$$ lawsuit was coming. The county had already been in touch with the insurance carrier from back in '85 about possibly covering costs. I think Kocourek et al were trying to get SA thrown back in jail prior to suit being filed (and not just on a DV complaint). If JS had gone through with signing the paperwork, etc.. for the DV on Sep 4, I wouldn't put it past MTSO to have escalated that DV charge into an attempted murder charge. They probably assumed headlines from that, plus more jail time would've been enough to squelch the civil suit.

I also wonder if a few MTSO in Kocourek's inner circle (or that owed him) were quietly using Mishicot PD to help surveil SA before and after the DV complaint. It's unlikely that Kocourek would solicit help from Manitowoc PD or Two Rivers PD since he basically called them liars regarding Gregory Allen in the '03 DOJ report. Plus, Chief was a former MTSO deputy for Kocourek.

[–]JJacks61 2 points 17 hours ago

I think this pretty well sums it up. We've all read and heard others say oh there's no way LE would do this or act this way, even after SA was exonerated, and that pack of lies came out in the depositions in Oct 2005. (I know this event was earlier, still)

A badge makes someone honest and ethical? LOL, it just makes them able to get away with whatever they want. It doesn't change a corrupt person at all. How so many people choose not to see it, or they just don't care because it doesn't affect them.

I've thought since I learned about these cases that the Civil Suit set in motion everything that followed. I mean, TK (and DV) facing the real chance HE would have to pay his OWN money to an Avery?

[–]JacksnakeJames 5 points 19 hours ago

I think they should start at $100 million+, separate from the Avery and Dassey cases, but I also believe Avery and Dassey should each be paid roughly this amount, given the circumstances that led to their imprisonment. I also think, all parties involved in doing this, should be personally held accountable for their part in it. That's how it works for everyone else. Equality under the law is one of the major thing written into our laws. Without it, there can be no justice. It's simply not ok to allow people to get away with injustice, especially to this degree!

[–]MsMinxster[S] 13 points 1 day ago

They shouldn't be scared. They hold all the cards. MTSO and CASO are propped up by people who have $$ (no matter how little) or influence to peddle during election year. Sheriff is an elected position and you can be sure Kocourek never forgot that. Neither did Petersen or Hermann. It's no coincidence that big murder trials popped up just prior to election year (check the archives).

I've said this before but TK was very purposeful in making sure HE solved the '85 case and Manti PD didn't get credit for catching PB's attacker. If Gregory Allen had been arrested/convicted, you can bet your ass in '86 Sheriff Bergner would've been running the show and TK would've been nothing but a has been sheriff/full-time realtor.

It's all about the money, honey and PB's family and in-laws had plenty of cash to throw at a sheriff's campaign fund.

[–]menace_2 8 points 1 day ago

    I've said this before but TK was very purposeful in making sure HE solved the '85 case and Manti PD didn't get credit for catching PB's attacker. If Gregory Allen had been arrested/convicted, you can bet your ass in '86 Sheriff Bergner would've been running the show and TK would've been nothing but a has been sheriff/full-time realtor.

And Chief Gilbert worked for Kocourek for almost a decade before the 9/4/04 crap went down? FFS. Steven never had a chance.

[–]Thesnakesate 3 points 1 day ago

PB's family and in-laws had piles of cash? Please tell me more!

[–]MsMinxster[S] 9 points 1 day ago

Her grandfather was the founder and owner of one of Manitowoc's major media outlets. I won't be more specific but that gives you a decent idea of the piles of cash her family had, no?

The documentary touched on PB's husband and his family's affluence from the candy stores but PB was affluent in her own right.

Interestingly, PB's older brother married MTSO M.Bushy's cousin prior to her '85 assault yet Sheriff Tommy K thought it perfectly appropriate to send MTSO M.Bushy to arrest SA for PB's assault on the evening of 7/29/85.