6. TH's RAV4 was spotted leaving the ASY with an unknown driver at 3:45 p.m.— Kathleen Zellner (@ZellnerLaw) November 15, 2018
Audio of Bobby Dassey Interview with CASO and DCI on November 17, 2017
"The only two questions: (1) On 11/3 who knew SA’s finger re-bled & he went to his trailer to get tape? (2) Who had access to SA’s burn pit on 11/4-11/5, before cops arrived to plant bones from a burn barrel? Hint - Bear did not bark." [Kathleen Zellner, @ZellnerLaw, October 22, 2018]
Audio of Barb Janda Tadych's interview with DCI agent Joseph Kapitany and CASO deputy Wendy Baldwin on November 9, 2005
Kathleen Zellner's investigators said that Bobby Dassey was "unbelievably rattled" during their interview with him, particularly when they mentioned his computer hard drive. Evidence found within Bobby's internet search history has shed new light on him as a potential suspect. [Source]
Question: Hadn’t TH taken photos for the Avery’s/Dassey’s previously? Why would she need to call for an address/directions?
Zellner: She was only given the Dassey phone number and not the ASY address. Because she did not know the Dasseys, she left a voicemail asking for directions.
The message Teresa left on the Janda machine at 11:43 AM on 10/31/05:
"Hello. This is Teresa with AutoTrader Magazine. I'm the photographer, and just giving you a call to let you know that I could come out there today, urn, in the afternoon. It would -- will probably be around two o'clock or even a little later. But, urn, if you could please give me a call back and let me know if that will work for you, because I don't have your address or anything, so I can't stop by without getting the -- a call back from you. And my cell phone is xxx-xxxx. Again, it's Teresa, xxx-xxx-xxxx. Thank you."
On 10/31/2005, the Dassey computer was used to access the internet at 6:05 AM, 6:28 AM, 6:31 AM, 7:00 AM, 9:33 AM, 10:09 AM, 1:08 PM, and 1:51 PM.
Did Bobby use the internet to contact Autotrader and request a same day photo shoot, and did he give them an address other than one at the salvage yard (the Autotrader website had a form you could submit online to request a photo shoot)?
Autotrader called Teresa at 9:46 AM and left a message. Was this message about a photo shoot request from Bobby at a location other than the salvage yard (maybe Kuss Road or the house in Maribel, across from Cedar Ridge Restaurant, which was vacant at the time -- the German's wife didn't move in until 11/4)?
At 11:04 AM, Teresa retrieved the 9:46 AM message left by Autotrader. Is this why Teresa called the Dassey home at 11:43 AM? Was it a separate photo shoot unrelated to Barb's minivan?
Or did Bobby text, instant message, or email Teresa, requesting a same day photo shoot? And is this the reason Teresa called the Dassey residence at 11:43 AM, requesting the address because he only left a name and number? Teresa said: "I don't have your address or anything, so I can't stop by without getting the -- a call back from you."
"After Teresa called the Dassey landline for directions, our suspect contacted her back with the Dassey address." - Kathleen Zellner
Zellner says after Teresa called the Dassey landline requesting contact with directions, the killer contacted Teresa, but not by phone.
Question: Bobby's computer shows activity at 1:51. Was the computer used to communicate with Teresa or was this via someone else's phone?
Zellner: Communication was not by phone.
The phone number Steven Avery gave Autotrader wasn't his own but, according to the job sheet, was the Dassey/Janda landline. And the address Steven gave, according to the job sheet, was 12930-A Avery Road, so Teresa had the address for the minivan photo shoot and would have known from the name of the road that it was the salvage yard -- she had been there at least six times before, the last time being 10/10/05.
Steven Avery wasn't expecting Teresa to call him back to confirm the appointment because he gave Barb's number to Autotrader. This probably is why Steven called Teresa twice, at 2:24 PM and 2:35 PM, to check if or when she was coming since he hadn't received a confirmation from Autotrader or Teresa.
Steven's 2017 affidavit gives the following reason for the 2:35 PM call to Teresa:
"I called a second time at 2:35 PM but I hung up immediately because I saw her at the van. Photographing it. I have had an opportunity to review my phone records to refresh my memory. Based on my recent review of my phone records, I know that Ms. Halbach began photographing Barb's van at 2:35 PM."
On Teresa's Autotrader job sheets for the B Janda minivan photo shoot, the Avery Road address is there in full (trial exhibits 17 and 22 -- see images below).
A logical explanation: Bobby Dassey contacted Teresa directly to arrange a hustle shot, but he only gave a name and phone number. And the job Teresa was calling about was this hustle shot, not the B Janda minivan job that Steven requested when he called Autotrader around 8 AM on 10/31/05.
When Bobby contacted Teresa again, after 11:43 AM on 10/31/05, but not by phone (according to Zellner), he gave her the Kuss Road location or some other location west or southwest of the salvage yard.
Two exhibits from Steven Avery's trial (image above) demonstrate that Autotrader gave Teresa Halbach B Janda's name, address and phone number, the number she called at 11:43 AM on 10/31/05
Kathleen Zellner @ZellnerLaw at 10:30 AM on November 15, 2018:
Making a Murderer watchers, listen up. I'm going to walk you through what I've learned through my investigation that you didn't see in the show.
1 . On 10/31/05, Scott Tadych visited Bobby at the Avery salvage yard (ASY) around noon.
2. After Teresa (TH) called the Dassey landline for directions, our suspect contacted her back with the Dassey address.
3. Teresa arrived at the ASY around 2:30–2:31 p.m. on 10/31/05. Only Bobby and Steven saw her. After completing her photo assignment, she left & turned West on Hwy 147 around 2:38 p.m. Our suspect followed her. Steven was in his trailer.
4. Our suspect gets TH to pull over. She opened her car's rear cargo door to retrieve her camera, was knocked to the ground and struck with an object.
5. TH was put in the rear cargo area of the RAV4 and driven back to ASY.
6. TH's RAV4 was spotted leaving the ASY with an unknown driver at 3:45 p.m.
7. RAV4 was left by the old dam West of Mishicot on 10/31/05.
8. 3 witnesses saw RAV4 up to 11/4/05, then it was gone.
9. Recent investigation shows the RAV4 battery died, so it was replaced in order to move the RAV4 to the ASY.
10. TH's body was burned in a burn barrel. Dassey burn barrel had human bones.
11. 60% of bones and 31 teeth missing.
12. A witness smelled horrible odor of something burning in Manitowoc County gravel pit the evening of 10/31/05.
13. The Dassey garage was never luminoled or DNA tested. Bobby hung a deer in the Dassey garage on 11/4/05.
14. Sikikey note—Body burned at smelter 11/4/05, 3 a.m. Tadych worked the night shift at a smelter facility. His nickname: Skinny.
15. TH's electronics were not burned in Steven's burn barrel; they were burned in Dassey burn barrel.
16. Suspect knew Steven's finger re-bled on 11/3/05 because he observed it.
17. Suspect had access to Steven's trailer to remove blood from the sink.
18. Only our suspect knew the blood in the sink was Steven's and not TH's (this rules out the police).
19. Suspect planted blood in RAV4, bones in Steven's burn pit, and TH's electronics in Steven's burn barrel.
In conclusion, the killer is the person who had the access and opportunity to plant Steven Avery's fresh blood in Teresa Halbach's car.
Use #AskZellner for questions
Below are some of the questions and answers from #AskZellner on October 23, 2018.
Exhibit J, video reenactment from Kathleen Zellner's 10/23/2017 Motion for Reconsideration - Bobby Dassey Following Teresa Halbach
If the scenario in the video above is true, then Teresa never made it to Zipperer's or she went to Zipperer's before driving to Avery Auto Salvage.
The earliest Teresa would have arrived at Zipperer's is 2:14 PM if what the State presented at trial is accurate: that Teresa called Zipperer's at 2:12 PM, looking for help in locating their home. She checked her voicemail at 2:13 PM, so 2:14 PM is the earliest she would have encountered JoEllen in the backyard. The transaction would have taken longer for a new customer, which the Zipperers were, and longer since the vehicle she was supposed to photograph wasn't in the driveway. JoEllen showed Teresa how to get to it, and then she came back and hand-delivered the new-customer packet to JoEllen. This would have taken no less that three minutes. So the earliest Teresa left Zipperer's driveway was 2:17 PM. Based on cell tower data, Teresa drove from Zipperer's to Avery's via County Road B. According to Google Maps, it is a 14-minute drive to 12923 Avery Road from 4433 County Road B (before the traffic circle was built at the intersection of US-10 and County Road B). So the earliest Teresa would have arrived and parked near Barb's minivan, if she was driving the speed limit for the 9.7-mile trip, is 2:31 PM, which coincides with the termination, 2:32 PM, of the 2:27 PM incoming call to Teresa's cell phone (Teresa and the caller talked for five minutes).
If Teresa went to Zipperer's before Avery's, the question to ask is: Why would Teresa turn left from Highway 147 onto County Road Q? The answer: She had a pre-arranged appointment along that route or she was waved down and pulled over before the intersection of Highway 147 and Q; otherwise, she would be heading toward Green Bay or home, and she would have driven west, not south.
Kathleen Zellner Interview with The Daily Beast, October 2018:
You lay out a convincing case against the forensic evidence used by the prosecution, as well as come up with a theory of your own—namely, that Brendan’s brother Bobby and stepfather Scott Tadych were likely behind the killing. Is that still your theory? And if so, is there anything new on that front?
In the series, they really got to all of that at the end of the tenth episode, because they were following my process. When I started the case, I started with nothing—no new evidence or anything. Then I gradually worked my way through the state’s case.
But no, my theory hasn’t changed, and this is what it comes down to. We realized that the 1996 blood vial had not been accessed by the police—the defense was just wrong about that theory. The packaging had been opened up in 2002 by The Innocence Project. The defense thought the packaging had been tampered with by the one officer, Lenk. It had not been. He never had possession of that blood tube. There was no missing blood from it; we got the exact quantities. All of those tubes have a hole in the top of them. Once I talked to experts that were dealing with EDTA tubes all the time, they said there was nothing that substantiated that theory.
One of the big problems with the defense was, they got locked into that theory, and then the state did the EDTA testing—which we considered redoing in the beginning, but experts said you’re going to end up with the same results, there’s just not EDTA in the tube. I always go back to the client and talk to them about the source of the blood. And in listening to Steven’s interviews, he’s always said the blood came from the night his finger broke open again, and he bled in his sink, and then he noticed the blood was missing. Sure enough, in his audio interviews back in ’05, he was telling the police that, and he told his attorneys that.
That changed the dynamic of the case, and who could be responsible for the murder—because I realized the police didn’t plant the blood. If the police had gotten in the trailer and seen blood in the sink, they’re not going to remove the blood, because they don’t know that that’s not Teresa’s blood. You would never do that. You would think, “Oh my god, there’s blood in the sink, it’s probably the victim’s.” You’re not going to scoop it up and go and drip it in the car.
So I realized the killer was the one who planted the blood. That then narrows the whole universe of suspects, because who knew that Steven’s finger had broken open again? There were witnesses that said the cut had existed for a couple of weeks. But his finger broke open again, and then it’s: who realized that he was bleeding and went back to his trailer to get a Band-Aid? Then we narrowed it again to just Bobby Dassey, because Brendan Dassey had gone with Steven. And the taillights that were in front of Steven’s trailer as they pulled out, and they ended up coming back, could only have been Bobby Dassey’s vehicle, because there was no one else who could have gotten that close to Steven’s trailer that quickly.
Then we started really looking at him, because he was the star witness for the state, and there have been other cases where the star witness ends up being the killer; the DNA subsequently proves they’re the killer. There’s a famous case in Nebraska where that happened. We started digging in, and discovered all of the stuff on the computer. We knew that he was very obsessed with her [Teresa Halbach], always watching her when she would come over. Then when the older brother gave me the affidavit saying Bobby told him that he saw her leave, we knew his trial testimony was false.
Given all of this, where is Steven’s case at the moment?
We prepared and filed the petition, and we filed an enormous amount of material—scientific evidence, our theory, all of that. We filed it at the trial court, and our experience across the country has been that trial courts do not reverse convictions; it happens at the higher court level. So we filed it knowing that the judge in this little place, Sheboygan, would summarily deny it, which means nothing. We’re in the process of appealing it to the appellate court, and that’s where most convictions are overturned across the country. Our appellate brief, which has all of these theories, all of this scientific evidence—the record’s 30,000 pages—is due on December 20.
Steven’s case, compared to Brendan’s, is just starting out, because Steven hasn’t had an attorney for years. Brendan has had Northwestern since 2010, and they did what we’re starting out to do—they went all through the state appellate system, and then when they lost, they jumped over to federal court, and took it all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. They’re years ahead of us. In some of the things I’ve read, they’ve acted like, well, what does any of this mean, the case is over. No, the case has just started. The post-conviction has just started for him.
Brendan’s case seems to have hit a ceiling at the Supreme Court.
It has, totally.
Does that hurt Steven’s case?
Brendan’s case is over, in the sense that they raised all the issues on the confession being involuntary, and they went through the state system. They were, in 2011 or 2012, where we are now with Steven’s case. Then they took it over to the federal courts, and got a couple of positive opinions that got overturned. So the only possibility, I think, for him—he would have to come back to the lower court, in the state court of Wisconsin, with new scientific evidence to try to dispute the validity of the confession.
That’s why what we’ve developed may ultimately help him. But the problem in the post-conviction world is there are so many procedural hurdles. The first response of the court to the Northwestern attorneys would be, why didn’t you do this the first time? It’s a really difficult system to operate in.
The show suggests that an enormous problem here is that the state of Wisconsin will do anything to avoid admitting any wrongdoing. Does this always happen in post-conviction cases?
No, it doesn’t. If we had developed the same evidence in Steven’s case and we had been in Illinois, in a big urban area like Chicago where they have a conviction integrity unit, we would have been given an evidentiary hearing immediately. And quite frankly, if the prosecution had determined that there were enough flaws in the original trial, by agreement, we would have gotten a new trial.
Because there are no conviction integrity units in Wisconsin—none of the prosecution offices have them—we have just hit a brick wall. We got some cooperation initially with the scientific testing—we had an agreement with the state to do an evidentiary hearing. They thought it would last four weeks, and we were going to have it in the spring of 2018. And then the judge just arbitrarily dismissed our petition. Even though we had an agreement with the state, and we told her that, she still dismissed it.
So we’ve just hit a brick wall with cooperation, or any of them thinking at all that there could be something wrong with the case. It’s really unlike what we’ve experienced in other jurisdictions across the country. I haven’t had a single one of my twenty exonerations retried. They decided the case was flawed, my client was released, and that’s the end of it. But this one, we couldn’t even get in for an evidentiary hearing. And that’s going to be part of the appeal—that we should be granted an evidentiary hearing.
But yes, they’ve really thrown up a lot of roadblocks. Is that your impression?
Absolutely. It seems like the state has dug in its heels, to the point that they don’t even want to find out if mistakes were made, or an injustice has taken place. It’s galling.
I one-hundred-percent agree with you. It just seems very backwards to me compared to what a lot of jurisdictions are doing. People are recognizing across the country, in Illinois, in Texas—which has had tons of exonerations—New York, California. The longest one I’ve ever had pending was in Missouri, Ryan Ferguson’s case, but that was only four years. We got the hearing, the witnesses admitted they had committed perjury in that one, the trial judge denied release, and we had to get release from the appellate court.
But this! I swear, if I was granted a new trial, Steven Avery would not be convicted again. Because the defense attorneys didn’t even have the most basic experts. They didn’t have blood spatter. The point of the blood spatter was that Teresa Halbach was ambushed. She opened up the rear cargo door to get her camera out, and somebody hit her and knocked her on the ground and they’re beating her. So it wasn’t at all like what the state said. She was ambushed.
Then, also, with Steven’s blood—it was dripped selectively into the car. There are no fingerprints in the car. So how do you bleed from your finger, don’t leave fingerprints, and there’s twelve places in the car where there’s no blood—like the door handle, the steering wheel, the gearshift, the brake shift? If we got back into court, just with the blood spatter expert—because I’ve won cases just on that—we would win this. And then look at the bullet. The bullet didn’t go through anyone’s head.
How hopeful is Steven—and are you—that the case is going to move forward productively in the near future?
He’s extremely resilient, and he’s very hopeful because he knows that I’ve done this so many times before. That’s also what gives me hope, because we’ve hit walls before, and we’ve always persevered. And I think the publicity really helps. I think eventually, you can almost shame people into doing the right thing.
Just let us back in court. If this thing is so solid, let us do another trial. It should be simple for them to get a conviction if this is so solid. But to know that the state had fourteen experts, and Steven had one, and he just looked at photographs of the bones; he never looked at the bones. The case was just so deficient in the way it was presented. That’s why if they’d just let us back in court…but that’s what they’re fighting. They don’t want us back in court.
But trust me, I will outlast them. I have incredible endurance for these things! I’m not going away. I’m like a bad recurring dream.
Zellner tweeted on November 15, 2018: "A witness smelled horrible odor of something burning in Manitowoc County gravel pit the evening of 10/31/05."Despite having a life sentence w/o parole SA has not lost his sense of humor. He sent me this notice he received Friday. @lifeafterten @michellemalkin @Newsweek @guardian #PreQualifiedasInnocent #MakingAMurderer2 pic.twitter.com/L69Na3Qd2J— Kathleen Zellner (@ZellnerLaw) November 19, 2018
What #MakingAMurderer2 does not tell everyone is that there was a witness who came forward to @Zellnerlaw a while back that witnessed a fire on halloween night at the quarry. Please, have a read.#Tipoftheiceberg#MakingAMurderer #MakingAMurdererPart2 pic.twitter.com/VkqhjcDYzd— AC (@Rookie1082) November 5, 2018
