March 1, 2016
"burn pit...obviously altered...had we been working the scene from start to finish, there would likely have been more thorough photo record"
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Trial-Exhibit-160-Email-Between-Fassbender-And-Ertl.pdf
[–] harmoni-pet
the entire quote?
Had we been working any of these scenes from start to finish, there would have likely been a more thorough photo record; however, under the circumstances, we were merely able to provide technical assistance, rather than complete scene processing.That paints a much clearer picture of what John Ertl (forensic scientist from Crime Lab, not a coroner) is saying. Then if you look at the top paragraph, he explains the circumstances.
In regards to the burn pit, our involvement began with a request to use our sifting equipment. The scene had obviously been altered at that point.Here, 'altered' can mean all sorts of things. If you're keen on the planting, you might think that means evidence corruption. If you read Sturdivant's testimony about how the bones were found, he says the dog had walked through the pit. The pit could be considered altered from foot prints, or when Sturdivant initially inspected the pit and found bones.
[–] carbon8dbev
Had the coroner been called as required there would likely have been a "more thorough photo record."
Meh. It's their job to enforce the law, not abide by it, amirite? Good honorable family men with honest moral fiber are apparently bound only by God's law, not the State's or some shit.
(1g) A sheriff or police chief shall, immediately upon notification under sub. (1) or s. 948.23 (1) (b) of a death, notify the coroner or the medical examiner, and the coroner or medical examiner of the county where death took place, if the crime, injury, or event occurred in another county, shall immediately report the death to the coroner or medical examiner of that county.
I hate that I pay taxes to help keep these clowns employed.
[–] Refukulator
It's their job to enforce the law, not abide by it
Good one.
[–] harmoni-pet
Where did they break the law then? Why were there no charges pressed?
Forgetting to take photos of bones isn't a crime to my knowledge. They didn't even know if the bones were human when they called Crime Lab to sift through the burn pit. In hindsight we know that they should have called the coroner because they turned out to be Teresa's. But at the time, they were collecting bones as evidence while simultaneously searching for Teresa's body.
[–] kaprikorny
but you would think with such a huge conflict of interest they would have documented EVERYTHING! Better to have evidence of nothing than to NOT have evidence of something.
[–] nothinbuttherain
Sure, they didn't know. That's why you photograph the hell out of it - because you don't know. You can't say "well, we'll just put them back and take pictures now that we know this is significant."
As to why no charges were filed, I think it's pretty clear that those folks ain't charging each other with anything. And you could very well be right that unless it could be proven it was intentionally omitted it's not an actionable offense. That doesn't mean it's not wrong and sloppy.
[–] skatoulaki
This is one of the biggest WTF parts of this case to me. I can't think about LEOs planting evidence - the blood, the key - because it's just too egregious for me to even consider...but the burn pit processing completely blows my mind. If these guys, who are supposed to be professionals, who were "worthy" enough to receive awards for their handling of this case, are examples of award-winning investigators, then we have all lost.
You can't even say, "dude, you watch too much CSI...that's not how they process this kinda thing" because actually, what should have been done here - photos, coroner, forensic anthropologist, flagging or a grid - that is basic crime scene investigation. Basic. And they fucked it up.
[–] pm_a_surprise
And no rubber residue on the bones from a ten tire fire? But police plant evidence. I know it's difficult to accept for some. But it is a reality that there are bad cops and bad das. To think otherwise, is honestly, juvenile. It's to believe what we were taught in grade school about people in authority. Don't question.
[–] skatoulaki
Right? And the bone fragments that were "intertwined" with the steel belt wires. Really? Where? Do you have a photo? No? Oh, we just have to take your word for it? That's not how this works!
[–] pm_a_surprise
Exactly! So many things about this case we have to take their words for. And so many of them have been shown to be dishonest in some way.
[–] hos_gotta_eat_too
Steven Avery had 18 years to think about bad cops.
[–] s_wardy_s
The bones and the lack of fire pit photo and residue evidence are the smoking gun. The planted key, rav4, SA blood in rav4, and the bullet are all just accessory to the dumb founded clues which all point to LE and in particular Lenk and Colborn as suspect. But the bones? are we led to believe SA burned TA and then collected her bones and neatly placed them in an evidence box, and delivered them to the county evidence locker. The first photo evidence of said bones are photos of bones in a box.
[–] AlpineBlues
These friggin people. They have no conscience left. You look at them in the courtroom, you can see they are like robot wreckers of lives. Watching them sweet talk Dassey with something that resembled fatherly love, right into his own destruction.
We would be doing them and the country a huge favor if we put them behind bars. Nothing short of a lengthy sentence would help them self reflect enough to see just how evil and destructive they have become.
Help them Zellner.
[–] MnAtty
God what a mess.
[–] Classic_Griswald
Yeah, they had a coroner ready to go with a proper team to process it. Instead mail it to the lady out of town....
Total 'we didn't mean to', especially when 2 county officials called the coroner to warn her to stay away.
[–] bluskyelin4me
What is beyond crazy is in a hearing on a pretrial motion, Factbender testified that in homicide investigations they "always used the Crime Lab" to process the scene. That, my fellow redditors, would be called perjury if he wasn't a law enforcement officer. "Come on...be honest ya gotta be honest... we can't help you if you're not honest..."
[–] innocens
These two should be under more scrutiny.
Who called them? What did they ask them to do?
[–] leiluhotnot
LE clearly destroyed their own smoking gun, slam dunk, gotcha evidence.
This was all about planting evidence, not about securing, or quality of the evidence. The jury just has to hear bones found next to Steven Avery trailer.
[–] Philly005
The bones were the one piece of evidence that would have been a dead giveaway to planting if photographed and handled correctly. It's no coincidence this was the one thing that was botched /mishandled/not photographed.
This to me is the smoking gun, and the bones should have never been allowed by the judge due to the obvious failure in procedure.
[–] hos_gotta_eat_too
10 to 1 says this email exchange alone is enough to have the bones thrown out as evidence.
[–] OpenMind4U 3
IMO, the funniest part is that these questions (with great concern) have been asked by Fassbender, himself /s
[–] AlpineBlues
Yeah. Nail him Fassbender. You moron.
[–] leiluhotnot
So we, the judiciary and law enforcement (LE) are left to judge and choose between LE corruption and releasing a guilty Steven Avery. Evidence ruined, so the question would always nag. Are we releasing a guilty man. Hopefully Zellner can put us at ease.
[–] HuNuWutWen
The absence of verifiable chain of custody documentation and photographic records, for the Avery burn pit and everything allegedly collected from it, renders that box of bones inadmissible, imo.
At least, there is a very strong argument to be made that the State has failed it's responsibility to reasonably handle the evidence, thereby making it impossible to verify the origin of the evidence. We simply don't know, and can't say, where it came from...nor can anyone on site...
The State cannot testify that specific bones in a specific box were collected from that general area, let alone where at the site they might have been specifically collected from, in fact they claim to not even know what they were handling, so even more reason to grid/contamination path/photo/log...but no...oops?
I see the nonsensical "excuse" that investigators on scene didn't "know" what they were scooping up with shovels...so...just kept on diggin'?...is that it?...
they had no fuckin' idea what they were lookin' for...
yet the entire area was cordoned off with crime scene tape?...warrants were in force?...and NONE of these fully trained/experienced crime scene investigators could follow the most basic SOP?...what is this, the fuckin' X-Files?....MULDER !!!
the reason it looks fucked up is because the cops fucked it up on purpose, so spare me the bullshit...Thanks.
[–] renaecharles
Makes perfect sense that they didnt take photos as the scene had already been tampered with- per Ertl's response. When a scene has been disturbed and they take pictures of the scene they can and probably will be used in a trial and if they are not photographed as they were found it could misrepresent the evidence; then the lab would be a secondary to evidence tampering. Fassbender had to know this from previous experience in cases but needed someone to blame for not documenting the scene correctly. He shot it back to him.
[–] DominantChord
Yeah, it is one of my favorite e-mails. I have been saying many times that this is probably one of the only instances where an official is critical towards another official.
He is essentially saying to Fassbender that he and his people fucked up his (Ertl's) ability to do a proper job.
