Below are some comments from a link for sending birthday wishes to Teresa Halbach in 2016 (image above).
http://light-candle.com/collections/view/32989
Teresa's Friends
on 21/5/16
Erin, Jolene, Nicole, Ariel, Kelly...talk to the press. Speak for Teresa. If only you could see the Calumet Investigative report. You knew her better than a documentary. Or online sleuths. Come to Reddit, help fill in blanks. We have theories, but tell us about Oct. 30th. The documentary is not disparaging Teresa's memory. It opened people's eyes about her loss. Google "Reddit Making a Murderer"
carmens ashes
on 21/5/16
Teresa - Carmen Boutwell and you got all mixed up along with Mark Lee Zipperer.
http://www.htrnews.com/story/news/local/2014/06/08/drug-death-a-painful-memory/10177139/ https://gist.github.com/anonymous/622776cc2a797f337bb4
- END COMMENTS -
Teresa allegedly went missing on October 31, 2005.
Carmen died of a drug overdose three days later, on November 3, 2005.
Mark apparently died of a drug overdose or suicide almost a month later, on November 29, 2005.
From Mark's obituary:
"Mark L Zipperer died on November 29, 2005, unexpectedly at his residence in Green Bay."Mark's father's home at the time of Teresa's disappearance was on County Road Q, about five miles south of Kuss Road. Did Teresa leave Avery's and drive to Kuss Road via County Road Q to meet Mark Lee Zipperer, possibly for a drug transaction or to meet a mutual friend/associate?
Were Teresa Halbach, Carmen Boutwell and Mark Lee Zipperer being pressured to act as confidential informants in a drug sting operation involving local sheriff's departments, Wisconsin DOJ, and the FBI/DEA?
MARK LEE ZIPPERER OBITUARY
Mark Lee Zipperer, 28, 837 Neufeld St., Green Bay, died unexpectedly Tuesday, Nov. 29, 2005, at his residence.
Mark was born in Manitowoc on July 23, 1977, to Daniel and Jane Haese Zipperer. He attended Holy Cross Grade School and graduated from the Mishicot High School with the Class of 1996. Mark was employed by Wilco Cabinet Company of Green Bay. He enjoyed skateboarding, snowboarding, camping and bicycling. Mark also played guitar in a band.
He is survived by his mother and stepfather, Jane and Harvey Kimmes, Suamico, Wis.; his father and stepmother, Dan and Lynn Zipperer, Mishicot, Wis.; and by his best friend and brother, Keith Zipperer, and his wife Lisa, Green Bay; stepniece Cecelia, stepnephew, Joseph, and stepgreat-grand niece Jordyn.
He is further survived by his aunts and uncles, Cathie and Mike Erceogovac, Winneconne; Margie Krizizke, Schaumburg, Ill.; Betty and Russ Fuller, Waukesha; John (His Godfather) and MaryJo Haese, Manitowoc; Jim and Cindy Haese, Mishicot; Laurie and Brad Thatcher, Rochester, Minn.; Chris and Becky Haese, Neenah; Virginia Zipperer, Francis Creek; Anita Zipperer and Patrick Ohearn, Green Bay; Suzanne Zipperer, Milwaukee; Julie Zipperer (His Godmother) and Joe Meyer, Francis Creek.
Mark is also survived by his many cousins, Anita (John), Teresa, Meghan, Kevin (Cindy), Jason (Donna), Matt (Amy), Sarah (Jeremy), Katie, Laura, Jeremy, Justin (Lynn), Beth, Lindsay, Benjamin, Kaitlin, Jillian, Collin, Kelly, Jacki, Kendall, Scott and Ketiwe.
Mark was preceded in death by his maternal grandparents, Clarence and Lucille Haese, his paternal grandparents, Virgil and Leona Zipperer, his aunt, MarySue Haese Brunkhorst, and by his cousins, Emma and Olivia.
Relatives and friends may call from 4 p.m. to 8 p.m. (TODAY) at the Lambert-Eckert Funeral Home, 344 So. State St. in Mishicot. Visitation will continue after 9 a.m. on Wednesday at the funeral home, until leaving for the funeral Mass at 11 a.m. at Holy Cross Catholic Church. Mass of Christian Burial will be held at 11 a.m. on Wednesday, Dec. 7, 2005, at Holy Cross Catholic Church in Mishicot, with the Reverend Paul Paider officiating, with burial to follow in the parish cemetery.
A memorial fund has been established in his name. Mark, you were loved so much, by so many, we will miss you.
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/6658322/mark_zipperer_obit1/
TruePeopleSearch.com record for Mark L Zipperer, who would be 41 if he were still alive today:
Mark L Zipperer
Age 41
Current Address
8313 County Road Q
Two Rivers, WI 54241-9630
Possible Relatives
Daniel M Zipperer, Jacob A Zipperer, Jane C Kimmes, Keith Alan Zipperer, Lynn A Zipperer, Andrew P Zipperer, Ashley S Zipperer, Sue Ann Zipperer
Possible Associates
Aaron P Chevalier, Briana L Foley, Sean Ronald Murray, Tammy M Jorgensen, Anthony D Hill, Bethany Lynn Foley, Craig S Smurawa, Crystal Marie Hill, Curtis T Grondine, Erica J Murray, Mark D Engels, Rhonda L Melvin, Sara E Elmer, Thomas J Schuh, Corinne L Bosse, Harvey P Kimmes, Lisa Ann Coronado
Mr_Precedent wrote at TickTockManitowoc:
I suspect TH made it home and was killed there (accidentally or intentionally or a drug overdose). I think RH, MH and SB were in a secret drug business with MW (CASO drug investigator) and they called him for help instead of 911 because an investigation at the house would get them all in trouble. When MW discovered that TH had seen SA (via her phone or paperwork), he called Lenk and they planned to solve both departments' problems and be heroes by framing SA.
I think the RAV (and TH's body, if it was a drug overdose) were moved to Zander Road and set on fire (MTSO had attempted to frame SA for a stolen car fire there a few months before). AC was sent to plant the Zander Road sign, the folded plates, and panties - and to find the RAV and call it in (causing it to be entered into evidence).
But they discovered the recorded jail calls with Jodi and the crime scene had to be moved to ASY. At this point, I think Kratz had gotten involved and made himself "The Boss," orchestrating the rest of the planting (like a trial checklist, with little thought to how it would be found).
It wouldn't surprise me if the RAV in ASY is a (not-quite) duplicate (a burned car couldn't be hidden there), and the blood in the back of it is not TH's. That's why it wasn't opened at ASY and was covered and moved in the dark. I think RH got scratched with branches while covering it up in the dark (while getting instructions from LEO via his phone and the flyover video). TH's keys had either been burned or wouldn't fit the duplicate RAV, so a replacement was made, attached to the fob she'd never used, and planted at SA's. Bullets found around the garage were rubbed with DNA and planted later, after the floor was dusty from jackhammering. The voicemails were switched (Zipperer audio was put onto Janda video) - Zipperer was the one with the incomplete address. No wonder the CD is "lost" now.
I doubt the bones planted in SA's burn pit were TH's and there was clearly no giant fire there, especially involving tires. I think the TH DNA is from the personal items collected at her home and brought to ASY. I think the SA DNA is swabbed from his sink, the extra/stolen "groin swabs" (sweat/touch), and dripped from a non-EDTA vial that Lenk stole from the MTSO evidence lock-up (a standard blood draw includes 10 tubes of different colors with different additives). The search of ASY, instigated by RH, "untrained LEO", was put off until the duplicate RAV was in place. PoG was set up to find it, but was confused because it was a different color than she was expecting - and the VIN had been tampered with.
I think Ken Kratz wrote the (loopy Ks) SiKiKey letter, ordered the planting of items in the Janda burn barrel, faked computer searches, and quarry bones, so to trick ST, BJ, the BD boys, and JR into changing their stories to include a big fire, by claiming that SA was guilty and trying to frame THEM. If they didn't comply, they'd be charged as accomplices. That's why BJ was so wishy-washy and ST was so ecstatic when SA was convicted. Brendan was too confused to cooperate, so they had to knead it out of him. They hoped SA would confess to save his young, disabled nephew.
At a minimum, I think these people were knowingly involved in the coverup: RH, MH, SB, MW, Lenk, AC, KK (and probably TF, SC & DR). ALL of them would benefit from SA being convicted (or from allowing themselves to be blackmailed). At least one of them has been talking to KZ.
NOBODY ever dreamed that this case would have a worldwide audience. The mere suggestion of filmmakers having access to the courtroom and family made Kratz apoplectic and desperate to get their footage seized and the project tied up in legal red tape - more than once. He's now desperate to sway public opinion and points often to the contents of the documentary series, NOT the transcripts and evidence.
I could definitely be wrong about some or all of this, but ALL of the evidence fits this or a similar scenario:
- How MW knew the BJ appointment was SA on 11/3 without having received that info from Cingular
- Why unemployed nursing graduate was making frequent deliveries to construction worker SB
- How MH knew to grieve for TH before her car was found
- Why RH and MH were acting so squirrelly about being on ASY
- Why RH was working so closely with LEO & deemed "untrained LEO" & allowed on crime scene (he was probably familiar to CASO as a drug informant)
- Why RH, MH and SB were not investigated
- Ryan's scratches (murder and/or planting car)
- Only 1 of 10 colored tubes in unsealed evidence box
- TOTALLY IGNORED AS CRUCIAL EVIDENCE: Zander Road sign, SiKiKey letter, computer searches, quarry bones, large amount of blood in back of RAV, missing parts, damage and VIN tampering to RAV - all used for blackmailing witnesses, not helpful against SA
- Kratz's email to Culhane that Wiegert was checking 1985 blood - "what it was" (likely the preservative)
- Zero tire residue, plus unburned leaves & grass around burn pit
- SHOCK AND HORROR (what could be more shocking than TH's closest friends and brother and corrupt LEO working to get two innocent men convicted of a crime by using HIS closest friends and family against him?)
I think TH died at home of a drug-related accident or crime (maybe she ODed or threatened to expose their crimes), and that they called MW directly instead of 911 for help because a reported drug-related death or murder would get them all in trouble.
According to the Cingular rep's testimony, he couldn't have numbers for calls. I think they broke into TH's account to TRY to get her information so they'd have an explanation for how MW knew on 11/3 that TH had talked to SA - but it wasn't there. RH's phone calls were inquiries as to WHY they couldn't print out the info they needed, and the fake list was made to hide the fact that it wasn't available. They had either TH, her phone, or her completed paperwork between 10/31 and 11/3. Wiegert's statement that a reverse search of BJ's number led to SA (when we KNOW it could not have) is the first provable LIE in the case. He lied because he was involved in the framing from the very beginning.
For the record, I think TH made it home and died there - either by accident or attack. I suspect RH, MH and SB were involved in a secret drug business with MW (CASO drug investigator), and they called him instead of 911 because a drug-related death would get them all in trouble. When he learned TH had visited SA (via her paperwork, phone or stories told by RH, MH & SB), he knew they could solve two problems at once. He called Lenk and they decided to frame SA. The original crime scene was supposed to be Zander Road (where there was an attempt by MTSO to frame SA several months prior), but when they learned about the recorded jail calls with Jodi, they had to move everything to ASY.
ALL of the evidence, lies, and strange behavior fit this scenario - or one very similar to it.
If MW was involved in a secret drug business involving seized or controlled substances, he would benefit by not having to explain how his cohorts were involved in a drug-related death. I'm sure being heralded as a hero who cracked the case within minutes of the phone call and put SA away doesn't hurt, either.
[–]MMonroe54
That's assuming a drug connection....and you may as well say the same about Remiker. He was the drug investigator for Manitowoc County. Except of course Remiker was not co-leader of the investigation.
[–]Mr_Precedent
Remiker was likely involved, too. He and Wiegert had a couple of very interesting phone calls about the Plan. And he commented that the source of the tightly controlled drugs that killed CB was untraceable.
Perhaps Remiker is one of the people who has spilled the beans to KZ.
It all could have started as clean-up for a secret operation that went awry. I do think Kratz took over the orchestration of the planting once the crime scene was moved. That’s why the “evidence” reads like a checklist of what would be needed at trial with so little thought put into HOW it was found or treated.
[–]dugdiggins
It would explain the missing screws for the RAV4 dashboard. It would explain the possible Martinez connection to ASY and the comments about a baggie (CASO page 980). It would explain the statements made by Jodi's stepfather (CASO page 1052). It would explain how Teresa knew on 10/30, when chatting with Herried on yahoo, that she would be in the area of ASY the next day, 10/31.
Missing Screws:
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/exhibit-293-passenger-door-view.jpg
CASO Page 980:
Missing Screws:
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/exhibit-293-passenger-door-view.jpg
CASO Page 980:
About the "going ons at ASY on 10/31/05," Jodi's stepfather said DavidT has a friend who told DavidT there was "more to the story." Jodi's stepfather believes it has something to do with Martinez. DavidT told Jodi's stepfather that "there was more going on than was coming out."
CASO Page 1052:
[–]Mr_PrecedentTeresa's live scent, tracked by bloodhounds, was strongest: (1) on the field road that led to/from Kuss Rd cul-de-sac & SA's trailer; (2) on the berm road behind SA's trailer. Was TH an undercover agent for WI-DCI & FBI or was she a CI? #MakingAMurderer https://t.co/NAh0WxkqwM— Lick The Knife (@RenyRoha) December 6, 2018
[–]lilypadbitch
DR who more or less blew off the CB overdose death on Nov 3rd saying that it was not traceable to how that happened to her? He basically said that type of case was usually hard to solve. What?
From Harold Times
Published 11:00 p.m. CT June 7, 2014
Drug Death a Painful Memory
Cases such as this are challenging to investigate; often those responsible are reluctant to come forward because they know the family or don’t want to put a stop to their flow of drugs, he said.
“It’s like finding a needle in a haystack,” Remiker said. “And then obtaining enough evidence to prove a case beyond a reasonable doubt is the standard we’re held to.”
So he just says “It’s like finding a needle in a haystack.” Well now we know they have no intent on investigating because they don't want the truth to come out to where the problem lies. In their own back yard is where it will lead. MW (CASO drug investigator).
[–]Mr_Precedent
Kratz was getting his drugs somewhere, too. It sure would have been a bad thing if his supplier(s) had been busted.
[–]lilypadbitch
Biggest problem in Wisconsin is Drugs and Alcohol.
Drunkest state and their drunkest city:
Drunkest state and their drunkest city:
2. Wisconsin: 24.5% statewide; 26.5% in Green Bay
I think (just a hunch that may be wrong) that RH, MH and SB were involved in selling drugs confiscated by (Calumet drug investigator) Wiegert (possibly Kratz, too), and that TH died at home, in the presence of RH, MH and SB, of an overdose or injury that would have gotten them ALL in serious trouble if a coroner learned she died at home and did an autopsy. I think they called Wiegert for help and he got the idea to call Lenk, frame SA, solve 2 big problems, and win some big awards and brownie points. I think Wiegert is deeply involved in the framing, and probably is the orchestrator of it until Sweaty Ken Kratz took over.
Audio of Witness Who Reported Teresa Taking Pictures of Cow
By seekingtruthforgood, TickTockManitowoc
A couple of people have asked for the recording of the witness who reported seeing Teresa taking pictures of the cows, so I have added it here:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1aTjq163zaX8GhhAtxKlAoul_l0zHDEKY
A few areas of the call will sound odd because I edited out a few words for reasons of privacy.
[-]magiclougie
The tipster thought maybe Teresa had spent the night in the area before she spotted her travelling south of Whitelaw, WI, the morning of Tuesday, 11/1.
Was Teresa coming from Kuss Road and heading to a photo shoot, perhaps Steve Schmitz's home at 253 County Road A in Kiel, WI, or was she coming from Schmitz's and heading north toward Kuss Road?
Her phone still was off network at this point.
The first incoming call to her phone since Steven Avery's incoming call at 4:35 PM on 10/31 was at 9:49 AM on 11/1.
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Trial-Exhibit-361-Halbach-Cingular-Report.pdf
[–]_7POP
I am so glad the caller kept going on about the details, even after dispatch said they were going to transfer to Wiegert’s VM.
So we learn the cow photo location was on Madson Road, “literally kitty corner” to Trinity Lutheran Church at 11303 Wehausen Rd, Manitowoc.
It was 8:35 AM Tuesday morning, November 1st.
[-]magiclougie
Wiegert: I did get a call last night, there was a Knutson, from Valders actually said she... she claims... she left she left me a voicemail which I haven't got, dispatch called me, she claimed, allegedly...she claims... she was on her way home and sees Teresa... and she sees Teresa pulled over taking a picture of a cow.
Remiker: Huh...she know Teresa?
Wiegert: No just seen on the news... all this kind of crap, I'm going to get my ducks in a row and drive up to Valders, talk to her.
Page 60, CASO File
TYPE OF ACTIVITY: Follow Up (Discovery of Teresa Halbach's Vehicle)
Phone Interview of: Pamela A. Sturm
DATE OF ACTIVITY: 11/05/05 at approximately 10:29 a.m.
REPORTING OFFICER: Inv. Mark Wiegert
On 11/05/05 at 10:29 a.m., I (Inv. MARK WIEGERT of the CALUMET CO. SHERIFF'S DEPT.), as well as Sheriff PAGEL of the CALUMET CO. SHERIFF'S DEPT., was called into the CALUMET CO. DISPATCH CENTER.
Upon arrival in the dispatch center, I noted Sheriff PAGEL had taken a phone call from a lady who was later identified as PAMELA A. STURM. PAMELA had indicated to Sheriff PAGEL that TERESA HALBACH's vehicle had possibly been located at the AVERY'S AUTO SALVAGE yard near Mishicot. Sheriff PAGEL handed me the phone and I spoke briefly with PAMELA.
Page 68, CASO File
TYPE OF ACTIVITY: Supplemental Report
DATE OF ACTIVITY: 11/05/05
REPORTING OFFICER: Inv. Wendy Baldwin
On 11/05/05 at approximately 10:40 a.m., I (Inv. BALDWIN) began my shift and was requested
by Inv. WIEGERT to follow-up on some information that had come in about the possible
sighting of TERESA HALBACH.
At approximately 11:13 a.m., I did make contact with ANNA P. KXUTSON, DOB 01/10/74, who informed me that on possibly Tuesday morning, she had seen a female fitting the description of TERESA on the highway taking photographs of cows.
Shortly after my arrival, Inv. WIEGERT had informed me that they located TERESA's vehicle
on the AVERY property.
At approximately 11:42 a.m., I arrived at W3559 CTH B.
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf#page=68
On 11/5, a resident named Leo Richmond who lives at 4201 Kuss Road called in a tip about seeing Teresa at his door the night before (11:30 PM on 11/4); she was looking for a home in his area. Wiegert dismissed the tip and said he would call back later.
Yes this is the same kuss road as burial site.@TransitionCLE I don't get how an investigator can be dismissive of a possible sighting of TH, whose car was found a mere half mile just hours before this phone call. Her scent was tracked near this mans house.#MakingAMurderer@7pairsofpanties @Rookie1082 @TManitowoc This is probably old news but @CoffeeAddict65 pointed out the caller from Larrabee who said Teresa knocked on his door on the 4th asking for directions runs a dog business on a road called Kuss Rd,is this the same Kuss rd as 'burial site'?— Eric Is Bananaman 🇬🇧 #NUFC (@EricEatsBananas) August 11, 2018
WISCONSIN 2005, who drove the black SUBURBANS, the DOJ or the FBI ?
By SpiritWolf395, TickTockManitowoc
The crime scene on Kuss Rd, there's 4 suburbans lined up (MAM2), just like to know if they are DOJ or FBI.
I have a theory about this crime scene being already there on 4th and 5th, during the flyover videos, that's why they wouldn't show Kuss Rd!
Could they have gotten an anonymous tip about a body being buried there? Were they investigating somebody because of their internet search history and missing girls? Could this have be a command post for FBI or DOJ special ops to monitor the Avery Savage Yard?
This is why I think the DOJ files on this are sealed, they might show a totally different investigation before Teresa was reported missing!
[–]Sarah1863[S]
The DOJ portable crime lab was at Kuss Rd; they could have easily processed the RAV4 on the spot alot faster than moving it. LE didn't have to worry about contamination; there was a portable crime lab at Kuss Rd with trained techs and all the equipment to do the job right. That's what portable crime labs are trained to do, with tents over the cars. LE didn't even have to touch the RAV4.
[–]SpiritWolf395[S]
My theory: At Kuss Rd, the DOJ or FBI were set up there during the flyover video, which means they were already investigating something there.
Maybe they were tipped off to a dead body being buried there, or something of the sorts, but, yea, you have a very interesting theory for sure, sounds logical.
A professional photographer doing Autotrader would starve to death on what they get paid; that, and the fact that anybody could take pictures for Autotrader!
I wish there was some way to date the pictures of Kuss Rd. Even the pilot says something to Jerry Pagel when they fly over Kuss Rd in the plane.
The crappy flyover footage was edited to not show things for sure, but why would the cops try to hide the RAV4 when it should be there, or maybe it's not under the tarp!
[–]black-dog-barks
Exactly ... when you see the big black Suburbans at a crime it usually involves a crime the federal authorities are interested in... gangs, drugs, human trafficking, etc. Most time they are out of the regional or State office of the FBI to see if they have jurisdiction over the scene.
If TH was working undercover, her going missing and a burial site found, the Feds would all over that. It is a red flag that something serious happened.
[–]black-dog-barks
Back in that time frame of early 2000-2005 the country was being hit with rural operations of meth production using old barns in rural areas where the odor of cooking wouldn't be detected by neighbors ...it spurred the successful Breaking Bad TV series.
There has been some conclusive proof the photographer prior to TH at AT was working undercover for the WI DOJ. Drug trade funds from the federal government often require joint task forces with local agencies.
I think we are all going to find when the case is solved by KZ that TH was the new operative working the MC/CC area up to GB, working undercover out of AT.
The video she makes about death could very well been about knowledge working undercover -- if you get exposed you will die a horrible death.
I now believe ST, BoD , and MO were cooking meth either in ST RV just like Breaking Bad or in an old barn on that property. ST used Barb to lure TH to the area with the photo shoot of Barb's minivan. The three working together (ST, BoD , and MO) intercepted her on HWY 147, tortured her down on Kuss Rd, and, when done, buried her body temporarily until they figured a way to dispose of her permanently. Thus the dog hits of a corpse at Kuss Rd.
They did a bad job hiding her SUV near ST's trailer on HWY 147, and it was seen by the truck driver. Thus allowing AC to find it, and put a new battery from the MC Garage into it. And with help of the Sheriff and Lenk, and then MW and TF, framed SA to make the law suit go away.
ST, most likely using the burn barrel and his company's smelter, disposed of most of TH... the MCSO had CB available for planting some bones in SA fire pit... it's why no perfect match of DNA... it's not because of burning but her being a cousin.
ST and BoD alibi each other with help of Barb.... they are able to buy the new house because of the drug trade... the local cops continue taking their bribes to say nothing about their meth operation. Thus MW and Barb remain "friends" all these years.
SA is hated by ST because he was interfering, being around so much, with his meth operation. Thus why ST says it's the best thing that ever happened when SA was sent back to jail.
MaM2 and all the scenes with Barb started my head thinking ..God...she looks like a meth head... a tweeker... then it all fell into place.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/a1egyf/wisconsin_2005_who_drove_the_black_suburbans_the/
[–]dugdiggins
Wilmer Seibert said he was not questioned by police or lawyers except for when an FBI agent came to his door shortly after Halbach went missing and showed him a picture of Halbach and asked if he knew her, which he didn’t.
https://algomaphotoandstory.wordpress.com/2016/04/28/what-steven-averys-neighbour-witnessed/
I'm Jeff Klassen, author of three recent articles on Manitowoc including the one about WS - AMA
By Algoma_Photo_N_Story, TickTockManitowoc
[–]Anniebananagram
Did you ask Wilmer Seibert how he knew it was an FBI agent who visited him? Did he leave a card?
[–]Algoma_Photo_N_Story[S]
He just said it was an FBI agent. I think I asked him repeatedly if it was an FBI agent. He could be misremembering, I don't know. I take it from some of the comments the fact that an FBI agent there is somewhat controversial? I was not aware of that when I spoke with him.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/4o879o/im_jeff_klassen_author_of_three_recent_articles/
[–]Anniebananagram
I think the photo you took of WS was beautiful. You really captured the character and kindness in his face.
I found your article really helpful and quite intriguing. I have some questions for you:
1. Did you ask WS how he knew it was an FBI agent who visited him? Did he leave a card?
2. Did the white Jeep have any markings of any kind?
3. Was WS interested in staying in touch with you to report any updates? Like if he is visited by LE after your article.
4. I'd love to hear more about the occult club investigation you did.
That's it for now!
[–]Algoma_Photo_N_Story[S]
He just said it was an FBI agent. I think I asked him repeatedly if it was an FBI agent. He could be misremembering , I don't know. I take it from some of the comments the fact that an FBI agent there is somewhat controversial? I was not aware of that when I spoke with him.
Just what he said in the article. I asked him many questions about the white Jeep and what he told me was all I could get from him.
He wasn't really interested in staying in touch. Maybe his daughter would be interested. WS seems like he just wants to chill out on his yard and toy around with his old cars and stuff. He is not at all interested in media hype.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/4o879o/im_jeff_klassen_author_of_three_recent_articles/
1 Dead/1 Missing/2 Framed
By August141981, TickTockManitowoc
November 7, 2016
November 3, 2005 was a seemingly busy day for Manitowoc and surrounding areas.
1. Carmen Boutwell was found of a suspicious drug overdose that morning at approximately 8:30 am.
2. Teresa Halbach is reported missing later that day at approximately 5:00 pm.
3. Steven Avery shows on the Global Subject Activity Report Summary as HOMICIDE SUSPECT at 6:34 pm.
Can these three events be connected? It certainly looks as though they can.
Warrant was issued for Carmen Boutwell's arrest on October 10, 2005:
https://wcca.wicourts.gov/caseDetails.do;jsessionid=1FB01A0C071E340DB6CD1315968E172E.render6?caseNo=2005CF000341&countyNo=36&cacheId=A5587DAFB43FFED9A7E1F5AE65F0597E&recordCount=6&offset=3&mode=details&submit=View+Case+Details
September 19, 2005 - was this the test run?
October 10, 2005 - was this a failed or aborted attempt to lure Teresa to her death?
CB Warrant filed Oct 10, 2005
CB Warrant served Oct 12, 2005
CB Bail/Bond Hearing Oct 13, 2005
CB Initial appearance Oct 17, 2005
CB Notice entered Oct 2005 - Review is set for Nov 3, 2005 @ 8:30 am
Teresa Halbach is scheduled with AutoTrader and has an appointment with Steven Avery at salvage yard.
Ryan Hillegas speaks with TH over the phone for 17 minutes the evening of Oct 10, 2005.
Note he called or received calls from TH, and if you look at the phone records of RH, you will see a pattern Oct 10/11 & Oct 30/31.
RH's phone record call patterns do seem quite similar for both Monday the 10th and Monday the 31st.
Monday October 10 2005
8:13 AM Voice
Monday October 10 2005
3:53 PM Incoming Mrc
Monday October 10 2005
5:45 PM 2 DM
Monday October 10 2005
6:20 PM Incoming 17 TH
Monday October 10 2005
6:46 PM MK
Tuesday October 11 2005
6:40 AM MK
Tuesday October 11 2005
7:56 AM Oshkosh
Tuesday October 11 2005
11:31 AM MK
Tuesday October 11 2005
11:43 AM Outgoing TH
The Fateful final 48 hours:
October 30 2005
1:26 PM 1 SB
October 30 2005
1:35 PM 2 SB
October 30 2005
3:30 PM 1 VIDEO
October 31 2005
9:10 AM Incoming 8 DM
October 31 2005
9:41 AM Incoming 2 Unknown
October 31 2005
3:48 PM 1 Voice
October 31 2005
3:50 PM CM
October 31 2005
6:01 PM Incoming 2 Unknown
October 31 2005
6:02 PM Incoming 23 Unknown
October 31 2005
6:25 PM 3 Unknown
October 31 2005
7:19 PM Incoming 3 Unknown
October 31 2005
7:36 PM 2 Unknown
October 31 2005
7:37 PM 2 SB
October 31 2005
7:47 PM Incoming 5 SB
What was CB doing leading up to October 31, 2005?
Prior to October 31, 2005
CB had met with LE days prior to her death. Her grandmother had driven her to an out of the place location where they met LE, and CB sat in the back seat of LE’s car, refusing to tell them what they wanted to hear. She was nervous and anxious about this meeting.
CB - October 31, 2005
On the day of October 31st, her family tells me that she was attending school in prep to attend college and had came home for lunch that day and spoke with her mom about what she was doing for Halloween. CB loved Halloween and she loved shelling out candy to the local kids. She told her mom that she was staying home that night and would look forward to her mom stopping by with her little brother in costume. Unfortunately she never spoke with her again and did not make it over that night to see her.
TH - October 31, 2005
On the day of October 31, 2005, TH is working her Monday at AutoTrader and has an appointment at salvage yard with SA to take photo of his sister's van.
OCTOBER 31 timeline detailed on reddit (angieb15) with many great links:
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/4kvwfc/october_31_2005_timeline/
November 3, 2005
At approximately 8:30 am, CB’s grandmother had gone upstairs and knocked on the door to wake CB, and she did not answer (CB’s lived in an apartment of the upstairs and her grandmother lived downstairs). A few minutes later an unknown female alerted CB’s grandmother that CB may be dead. The grandmother went upstairs where she found CB sitting on the floor, leaning against the stereo, and unresponsive.
MSCO was contacted and responded. Conversations between MCSO and CB’s family immediately ensued and her family was told she had OD’d.
The family of course was devastated. MCSO immediately discussed that they would assist the family with her funeral arrangements. The family paid for CB’s funeral; however, even before CB's body was removed from her apartment, MCSO told the family that they should have her cremated. They advised the family that an autopsy would be done immediately and that they would help with the arrangements for cremation.
The autopsy was completed Nov 4th, and CB’s funeral was Nov 8th.
Her family remembers placing her in the back of the hearse shortly after 1pm on Nov 8th, where she was taken to be cremated. It took 3 weeks for her cremains to be returned to the family.
CB’s family questioned her death a few times to LE and were told that she was a drug addict and to get over it and that finding her killer was virtually impossible. LE never investigated CB's suspicious drug death! MSCO stated in the news article that the case was still open.
At approximately 5:00 pm, Teresa Halbach is reported missing.
Teresa Halbach RAV4 is listed as in custody November 3, 2005 (no time listed on report - source link page 3):
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/MTSO-Summary-Report-on-Homicide-Investigation.pdf
At 6:34 pm, approximately 2 1/5 hours after TH missing person report was filed, SA was documented as TH murder suspect (NOVEMBER 3/05 @ 18:34 hours - Global Subject Activity Report).
Dave Remiker - report shows that he was not working November 3, 2005:
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf#page=1032
This is where I would love to see CB's investigation paperwork, as DR says he was on this case. But he seems to be MIA that day, and then was recorded as being involved in SA case.
At 10:00 pm the breaking news of TH missing on WBAY:
http://wbay.com/2016/01/07/video-nov-3-2005-teresa-halbach-is-missing/
November 4, 2005
Because MSCO had removed the same coroner that was walled off from SA case, CB was driven 2 hours drive to Waukesha County Morgue. Her autopsy was done by Debra P Kakatch, MD Forensic Pathologist, and TH, Forensic Autopsy Assistant.
This autopsy was done Nov 4th, 2005. The autopsy report shows her organs were normal -- that is not indicative to someone who is a “druggie” -- along with the low numbers for methadone & alcohol.
What is questionable is the mention of markings and their location, that she was more apt to have died from suffocation/strangulation rather then OD.
During the autopsy, tissues and samples were taken and stored, and also there was a DNA card made for her.
(NOTE: the coroner DK had contacted CB's family daily, always saying how sorry she was. Her last day calling, she called x3, with the last conversation being that she was removed from the case, and she stopped contacting the family.)
10:00 am Pam Sturm sees news featuring TH (page 197):
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Jury-Trial-Transcript-Day-2-2007Feb13.pdf#page=197
Between 3:10 - 7:25 pm, RH speaks with LE 22 times (I am not posting the link to spread sheet but you all I’m sure are aware).
At 4:00 pm, DaveB & SarahB arrive at salvage yard. They speak with SA and leave a missing person flyer (page 214):
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Jury-Trial-Transcript-Day-1-2007Feb12.pdf#page=214
Between 7:30 - 8:00 pm, SA brother sees headlights near the pit while leaving for Crivitz and calls SA (see report):
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Steven-Avery-Interview-Report-2005Nov05.pdf
Timeline of activity Nov 4, 2005 for TH missing person case:
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/4kwcwi/november_4_2005_timeline/
When you go back and look at CB court documents, the following stands out:
Nov 8 2005, motion and order of dismissal, ordering the action dismissed without prejudice because the defendant is deceased (that is 5 days after she died, that is the very day of her funeral, that is the very day the supposed bones were found on the salvage yard).
In none of CB's other court documents is it logged that she was deceased until the following year, and 2 documents actually still don’t show her as deceased.
Have I gotten your attention yet?
[–][deleted]
Yes, after 11 months on this forum, you have gotten my attention like none other.
[–]bashdotexe
"Shock and Horror" indeed if CB turns out to be a part of this. Her family already had funeral arrangements but MTSO insisted on taking care of it for them? While also not investigating after the autopsy showed strangulation?
This has my attention for sure.
[–]missingtruth
Yes, you have my attention. Great post of connections. Scary...
[–]August141981[S]
thank you, and it's frightening.
[–]Jayyouung
The CB/TH theory has been dismissed so many times but there are definitely some links between the two. Great post that will keep me thinking.
[–]SilkyBeesKnees
You're right! November 3, 2005 was a red letter day for Manitowoc. The CB connection is a weird one. I trust Zellner to prove Avery's innocence but will we ever have the whole story? Excellent post.
[–]7-pairs-of-panties
You've got my attention! The CB connection has always bugged me! I believe there is a connection but can't quite put the puzzle pieces together. Only things I can think of is they used her for her bones AND/OR they used her as a stand in for the bogus Zipperer appt. Great post!
[–]August141981[S]
I assure you CB did not look like the photo in the news article. The photo her mom was holding was of her a few years younger. Yes she resembled the photo somewhat but that was not her look when she died.
[–]foghaze
I can confirm this. I've seen the pic too. They looked nothing alike anymore and she could not have pulled off posing as Teresa. So I hope those who are leaning in this direction can see how that scenario would be impossible.
FYI the markings on her throat are a bit suspicious but after further research seem to be common. I really don't know what to think about her connection, if there is one, anymore. I'm leaning more to no connection TBH.
[–]August141981[S]
Thank you fog and I appreciate your input as always.
[–]foghaze
You're welcome. One thing I do find strange is how she was taken to the coroner in Waukesha and how they made her get an autopsy when none was needed.
It's odd how they immediately called it an overdose when they couldn't have actually known this.
The coroner she was taken to was connected with another corrupt cop case that had recently happened as well in another county but he testified for the defense. It's pretty interesting because a cop shot this guy in the head and some of the cranial pieces were missing, according to him. They were apparently on the ground but he claims he never got them. Crazy huh? You can kinda see where I might be going with that. I will get that info to you when I have the chance.
Also, when I look at the very little amount of drugs in her system compared to the BAC level, I cannot see how she died but I think it's possible had she had never taken methadone before. I'm no expert at all, but the levels of methadone in her system appear very low. However, if this is coupled with alcohol it does make a difference. I do suspect that it's possible she got it from LE.
The deeper I dig the more it looks like the entire state is corrupt.
[–]August141981[S]
Michael Bell Jr is who you are referring?
yes, another interesting case.
[–]foghaze
I can't remember the names or details. It was a while back when I researched all this but it was a corrupt cop case where he pulled a guy over who was supposed to be in court testifying against him in a few hours. Something like that. The cop straight up killed him for no reason at all at close range. He was unarmed.
[–]August141981[S]
this one foghaze?
http://michaelbell.info/MEReport.html
[–]foghaze
Yes, that's the one.
[–]stateurname
Did you have a previous post about a certain guy who had a court date schedule for a certain time? Cant recall, but CB's friend at the time?
[–]August141981[S]
If you are referring to first name rhymes with Mary you quite likely read my posts here:
https://m.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/53o8cu/them_dry_bones/?ref=search_posts
[–]stateurname
Yes! I believe it is, would be from MC or from different area? Just seeing if there was a link with him and any others in the area.
Out of all this mess, I hope the friends around CB have been able to get clean and out of the area.
[–]August141981[S]
I believe we will see change. This is a lot for many of them. Some have, some are and hope others will find the strength to direct themselves in positive ways.
[–]foghaze
Did you have a previous post about a certain guy who had a court date schedule for a certain time? Can't recall, but CB's friend at the time?
Yes, his name was Gary Kreie. According to her family they weren't really friends. They didn't even know who he is but, for some reason, MTSO ordered her to stay away from him.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/4lkfbv/the_curious_case_of_boutwell_kreie/
[–]solunaView
Have you found any maternal relatives that could link CB and TH? Even distantly?
[–]ControlOptional
I looked back all the way to ancestors several generations and found nothing.
[–]solunaView
Yeah, I know a few people did. Thanks. Never hurts to ask new eyes I figured. :) Still not discounting this. The other thing is with only 7 loci matching the odds in the regular population are much better like in the hundreds possibly.
The other thing is we don't know if LE would out and out fake the mtDNA testing. SC has spit on her hands already how much of a leap would it be to just fake a test or three?
[–]August141981[S]
I use to work with a retired forensic guy who had a routine. One day I mentioned his habits to him and that is when I found out his previous work was. In the 5 or so years I worked with him NOT ONCE did he cough in his hands.
Sherry Culhane was a nervous nitty for a reason.
[–]dark-dare
It's called dry labbing and it is more common than you think in state run labs.
[–]August141981[S]
Yes maternal, yes related and distant on father's side. CB's father related to TH's father.
[–]no_idea_4_names
So that wouldn't count towards mtdna then would it? Thought that was all through the mother's side?
[–]August141981[S]
mtdna means nothing! just more fluff on the prosecution side of things.
The reality is that there is plenty of lies and deceit that was created and executed by the prosecution and the thugs.
[–]IvanaVodka
I have also thought they might have used CB's bones. This case is so messed up it's infuriating!
[–]dark-dare
*A few minutes later an unknown female alerted CB’s grandmother that CB may be dead the grandmother went upstairs where she found CB sitting on the floor leaning against the stereo and unresponsive.*
WOAH WTF. Do you have any further information, where did this come from?
[–]August141981[S]
Frightening isn't it...I've been deep deep down in the CB rabbit hole. All the fluff that KK made in regards to DNA and such is just that.
This information and more has been turned over to proper authority, and I can't wait for that ship to sink and those responsible for this heinous crime are made accountable.
They framed them, they shamed them and they stole their lives.
I was sickened by what they did to SA x2. I was horrified by what they did to BD. I'm frightened by what they did to CB.
These are people who are supposed to be looking after "we the people," and for decades they've only been looking after themselves. it's disgusting.
The weight we carry with the information we gather! I'm at the point I just want it all to come out and those 2 innocent men released.
[–][deleted]
[deleted]
[–]August141981[S]
Perhaps KK.
I mean he had a drug problem, obvious narcissistic behaviour, money problems, failed marriage, rehab, and the list goes on. The kind that really isn't going to turn down an opportunity. My read is he might just not have gotten the memo at rehab and prefers the messed up kind of behaviour.
I don't know why someone like him has left his fb wide open for the world to see. Is that part of his messed up behaviour or is it KZ. She's brilliant.
[–]dark-dare
Any WTF revelations to do with the boyfriend, who skipped jail the day before CB died, who was thought to be an informant?
Who is the woman (the unknown female)??? WB popped to mind. Also, the dispatcher was a neighbor!
[–]August141981[S]
He was not a boyfriend. I have been told either he or someone else he associated with were also seen outside her home the day she was found deceased.
He should have never been given a huber. if you go back thru his records you will see he didn't qualify for such a privilege.
[–]7-pairs-of-panties
And the non boyfriend of CB that your referring to, Gary Kreie, is FB friends with WB.
He was also put back in the slammer soon after MAM came out.
[–]August141981[S]
He has an interesting group of friends and connections. He lost his father young. Seems the loss of his sister crushed him. He didn't seem to get a great response on his last couple posts on fb.
[–]angieb15
Can you say where you got all the details? Because some of this is previously unknown and fascinating...
[–]August141981[S]
Direct connections to CB, and it's both fascinating and frightening, thru many months and tons of reading and telephone conversations. Working with some really great thinkers. I surely couldn't have gathered all on my own but was encouraged to post this here and hope to gather further thoughts and information.
[–][deleted]
I am interested in her sitting in the car with LE and not telling them what they wanted to hear. What did they want to hear?
[–]August141981[S]
It is believed that DEA was there at the meeting as well. I am convinced that CB knew something or was being pressured for something and refused to play the game or was silenced.
I believe from my information gathered that this is a case of 1 dead, 1 missing, and 2 framed.
[–][deleted]
Are you implying something with "one dead and one missing" rather than two dead?
[–]August141981[S]
One is dead and one is missing. I'm not implying anything. CB is confirmed and documented as deceased. TH is reported missing. There is no proof of rape/torture/mutilation or murder no body fluid/blood no damage to the bed where supposed rape took place. Heck car-char-ski the officer I refer as "dopey" sat on the very bed of the crime scene and took notes while the other 2 idiots packed up the evidence they just planted.
And it all started with a sweaty narcissistic story teller, and we're all still rooting, searching for the murderer that we were told about.
[–]stateurname
Your OP is so good. If you are in the area, you have to think vacation for a while.
[–]August141981[S]
I don't live in USA but certainly hope to one day meet CB's family. A bond is created now, and no matter the outcome, her death needs to be investigated by trusted authorities.
[–]seekingtruthforgood
If you haven't already read this, you may find this older post (x-post) and its comments fascinating:
https://np.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/4aboty/is_this_the_doctor_that_supplied_the_methadone/
[–]August141981[S]
CB was found dead the morning of Nov 3rd. It's listed on her autopsy report as is the date of her autopsy being Nov 4. It's been confirmed, and report has been turned over to team Zellner months ago.
[–]August141981[S]
There was an unknown/unnamed female there when CB was found but there were others that left in the night.
[–]SBRH33
I hope to hear much more about this. I have quietly kept the CB thoughts to myself for a long time.
Most would consider it too far fetched of a plot. I personally really don't think it is.
These guys (MTSO) were up against a real tough wall. It was all hands on deck.
[–]covertoperations911
This is a fantastic post - such incredibly important information. I can't thank you enough for sharing all of it with us and for giving the Boutwell family a voice. The revelations about the autopsy and the cremation are astounding.
Boutwell wasn't simply being processed through the courts: she was on the radar of the federal security services - and for reasons that remain unknown even today.
According to the information you've gathered:
1. A number of people were present in and around Boutwell's residence on Nov. 2 and Nov. 3.
2. There were the unidentified persons who "left in the night" on Nov. 2.
3. The following day, Kreie or an alleged associate, is seen outside her home.
4. Later, Boutwell's grandmother is told that she "may be dead" by an unidentified female.
What was going on at her house that night?
I'm absolutely floored. Something evil was happening in this county in October-November 2005.
[–]August141981[S]
Something evil has been happening there for decades.
She was a young girl who had friends over that is not out of the ordinary, but what happened to her and what led up to her death is not ordinary and should absolutely be investigated.
If we allow fear of speaking up and speaking out prevent us from exposing truth then evil wins.
[–]lilypadbitch
Evil shall not win if those who know the truth come forward and stop the cycle of corruption. It is like a family with a hidden secret and no one wants to exposé it because then everyone will know the sins of the family.
I think there is more secrets that the state of WI does not want the rest of the country to know about but I bet we are all guilty of the same corruption.
Sad to say but this goes all the way to the top of our leadership here in the US.
[–]August141981[S]
you're absolutely correct. from what I've seen, and it isn't just this case, there are many others of the like. This doesn't happen unless you have higher ups either covering or involved...when it comes down to it if they have kept these secrets this long they are responsible.
[–][deleted]
After reading this it's starting to feel like the CB case needs its own forum. A lot of info will get lost in this thread so it would be great to have something more in depth where the whole case can be taken apart.
[–]August141981[S]
11 years ago today CB family laid her to rest, amongst all the noise and utter chaos that was thrown into their world. They were kept in a state that they were unable to see everything that was going on outside of their devastation and loss.
same MO as Avery case.
[–]hopeville
When I first heard about MTSO offering to cremate CB, I figured it was her bones on SA's property. TH's bones are long gone. Unless there was 100% proof that some of them were in fact hers. But I don't recall that being the case.
[–]August141981[S]
I'd love to sing to the world about a girl named CB. but if my information seems vague then I apologize, and you are free to ask anything further. Should I be able to further indulge in answering I will. However, the people I've spoken with, I earned their respect and trust and I would not intentionally jeopardize the bond of friendship we have created over these past few months.
Sometimes things just can't be said for good reason.
CB death has never been investigated if you catch my drift.
[–]NewbieDoobieDoo7
Okay so you're saying you personally spoke (over the internet?) with people close to CB and/or the investigation (or lack thereof)? Have you vetted these people to make sure they are who they say they are? I'm not trying to get you to divulge your source(s) but we've been lied to before...
[–]August141981[S]
spoke personally, yes, as have others & they have been vetted.
Just to be clear, I'm not a lone wolf, and I'm not a "you heard it hear first kind of person."
Foghaze is one of a small group of people who has been introduced to some of the sources.
It's going to go down like dominos.
[–]NewbieDoobieDoo7
So people close to the CB case think that there is a link between her and TH's death?
[–]August141981[S]
All who have directly connected ourselves to CB and those who knew her say this: "If CB is not connected to this, her death requires a complete and trustworthy investigation."
We will all support it and demand it.
[–]lilypadbitch
What was CB doing leading up to October 31, 2005 Prior to October 31/05 - CB had met with LE days prior to her death. Her grandmother had driven her to an out of the place location where they met LE and CB sat in the back seat of LE’s car refusing to tell them what they wanted to hear. She was nervous and anxious about this meeting. - August141981
What LE was involved in meeting with her? What was the reason for her to meet with them?
If we knew more about what CB and TH where doing months before Oct. 31st it could tell a lot about what happened to both of them. What was going on in their lives prior to Oct 31?
Thank you for posting August141981. I have been waiting to see your insight to the CB connection.
There is some disturbing stuff going on in the shadows of this investigation. This is no coincidence to the connections of events. I believe there is some deep organized criminal activity going on in WI that they are desperately trying to keep hidden.
[–]August141981[S]
Thanks for letting me high jack your thread awhile back. I've dipped my toes in this CB conversation or at least attempted since late Jan early feb and, well, conversations never ended nicely or no one was just open to discuss. I was thankful for the open conversation.
We can't be 100% certain. So open conversation is really helpful to us all. Fact finding and then creating our own understanding of the case.
[–][deleted]
Did you have a different name then? I was mmh150 or cremation of sam mcgee, and I believe I was one of the first, if not the first, to bring up CB's coincidental death mid Jan. (I'm not bragging, its just that people shot me down very quickly and I can't recall your involvement in the discussions, for some reason). Your filling in the blanks of this story is fascinating to me, therefore. I have always believed in justice for CB as well as others caught up in this mess.
[–]August141981[S]
yes I used a different name. To be honest I didn't even use reddit in the beginning. I used fb and other venues. I was horrified when I seen previous posts in here from a while back where people were disrespecting my personal space and bombarding comments with my personal full name, who I was, who I associate with. All eager to negatively bash me and discredit the information found. So I stepped away and have recently returned because those I trust encouraged me to do so.
[–]ahhhreallynow
Any known connections between SB or RH or TH on a social level?
[–]August141981[S]
You mean with CB? No one I spoke with was able to connect any of those 3 with CB.
[–]August141981[S]
Yes, I believe CB was the target/victim. When you take all the evidence, and not just what they chose to use in Avery/Dassey trials, and sort through it, CB always ends up as the most possible. LE and media went immediately to the story line of rape/torture/mutilation and zero news on CB suspicious death. If you don't talk about it just goes away. Or so they thought.
[–]ICUNurse1
I have read this post no less than five times since it was originally posted. There are so many questions I have and know you probably can't answer. But I feel sad that if this indeed true, a young woman was used to disguise corruption and hatred. Although I feel bad for TH's parents, I feel worse for CB's.
[–]August141981[S]
Thank you for saying that. I have honestly wept many times since a girl named CB opened my eyes to just shocking information.
Everyone's life matters. We all want truth not lies.
[–]Kkman1971
I remember another great former poster that seems to have disappeared as of late. TID was very interested in the CB "coincidence" aspect as well.... it seems there is much more to this story, and I am sure we will all learn more about it when KZ lays out the "shock and horror" of this entire enigma. You can check out his last update on it on his website... more things that make you go "hummmmmm"... TID
[–]August141981[S]
yes, The Inspiring Dad is also included in our group of thinkers and has sat in conversations as a group and found information on his own as well.
[–]Messwiththebull
Manitowoc LE serial killers?
[–]August141981[S]
that would be an accusation that I'm not prepared to take a stance on, however, a full investigation of many cases involving said individuals should be happening!
[–]DaveBegotka
These is not the only questionable crimes committed in this area..... this group of people have dirt and blood all over their hands.
[–]lilypadbitch
This is so true and IMO has been going on for a long, long, long time. They ALL need to be exposed and held responsible for their crimes.
Time to WAKE UP WISCONSIN! Quit lying and hiding your dirty little secrets.
IMO - Shut the entire State down and start over with people who #1. Not related and #2. They can do their fricken job with integrity and without hidden agendas.
[–]DaveBegotka
Sounds like the only choice because the corruption goes all the way to the top.
Is this the doctor that supplied the Methadone that killed Carmen Boutwell? +more re:Remiker
by Classic_Griswald, MakingaMurderer
For anyone who is not up to date, Carmen Boutwell (who I will refer to as C.B. from now on) is a girl that died very, very close in time to T.H.
Not only were they around the same age, they also looked very similar
There has been some speculation as to whether or not the C.B. death was related to the T.H. Case is some respect. She dies of a methadone overdose, right around the time T.H. went missing.
In fact, I remember listening to a call about the body of Carmen begin found, and someone asked if it was T.H. There was slight confusion among some people at the time. Of course this in itself is harmless. However, there was further speculation that the MTSO arranged the disposal or (looking for better words), the finalization of C.B.'s remains. And questions as to whether she was cremated.
I think the latter speculation there is going a little too far. Especially with nothing to back it up. It's most likely someone pushing their own ideas of what might've happened. Unless it can be sourced, in which I and others would like to see.
Lt. Dave Remiker of the Manitowoc County Metro Drug Unit.
Remiker was working the case - and claims that they had little hope of finding whoever supplied the methadone to C.B.
Here is the problem with that statement: while C.B. did not have a prescription, methadone is a highly, highly controlled substance. It's not just handed out to anyone.
It's used as a substitution drug for people who are addicted to opiates/opiods, and in a smaller place like Manitowoc, they should be able to get a list of every single person who has a script. Then comparing that with people she knows, it seems like it's not so much a needle in a haystack, but a needle hanging on a few threads.
Boutwell “didn’t have a prescription (for methadone). Somebody provided those drugs to her,” Luchterhand said. Cases such as this are challenging to investigate; often those responsible are reluctant to come forward because they know the family or don’t want to put a stop to their flow of drugs, he said. “It’s like finding a needle in a haystack,” Remiker said. “And then obtaining enough evidence to prove a case beyond a reasonable doubt is the standard we’re held to.”
Fast forward to 2016
A doctor is in trouble in Manitowoc. What for? He's a pain doctor who's been prescribing pain meds and methadone like they are candies.
Not only is he on the hook for overprescribing, but there is evidence many people have gotten sick or died from his prescribing habits. And apparently he was well known to police for 15 years.
Link to affidavit
http://fox11digital.com/news/PDFs/Szyman%20complaint.pdf
Remiker's affidavit says he's known about this doctor since 1999. It would be interesting to know if he investigated this doc to see if he had any connection to CB.
At first I thought this wouldn't pan out, since there are so many years past, the chances of a doctor who is in trouble today, was involved in the same behaviour 10 years ago is slim, right? Not in this case. Police say he's had a reputation, from regular people to themselves. He's known as 'the Candy Man'.
Capt. Scott Luchterhand of the Manitowoc Police Department said law enforcement has been familiar with Dr. Charles Szyman’s reputation for at least 15 years. “He’s known in our community as a drug dealer with a license,” he said. “He’s also considered the candy man by the people out on the street that are abusing all these prescriptions.”
Here are some of the pertinent information from the DEAs look into the doctor:
Contained in the DEA's 515 pages of reports and evidence, a Jan. 22, 2015, report from the Manitowoc County Coroner's Office states that between Feb. 22, 2013, and Dec. 5, 2014, seven of Szyman's patients died of the following causes:
accident: morphine toxicity, oral injection of morphine, chronic
substance abuse
acute methadone intoxication
suicide
accidental overdose of prescription medications
mixed drug toxicity (three patients)
But wait, when the Carmen Boutwell case came up, Remiker was in charge, or at least participating in the case, and he said there was little chance they would ever find out who gave the methadone to C.B.
In such a small place like Manitowoc, this seems unlikely. Even if Dr. S was giving meds out like candy, he'd still have to track every person he gave it to. And if he is well known to people on the street, and police for over prescribing narcotics, including methadone, it seems like a place to start, doesn't it? It also seems less like a needle in a haystack.
In another case, where they were hunting down people making methamphetamines, Remiker notes that the pharmacy logs are comprehensive. Pretty much as I am stating in this thread:
"We have a tendency to use pharmacy logs. What's common is the purchase of pseudoephedrine products, which is one of the main ingredients in meth production," Lt. Dave Remiker with the Manitowoc County Metro Drug Unit said. Lt. Remiker says a tip led investigators to the 33-year-old and 29-year-old. "They had a pretty extensive habit with prescription drugs and meth," Lt. Remiker said.
Another interesting point about all of these events, this seems to have happened right around the time that Remiker was all bummed out, between the call with him and Wiegert, when they were discussing Zipperer being the last stop for T.H. the day she went missing.
I'm curious now as to why he was bummed out? Someone speculating might be wondering maybe he was pushed away from following up properly on the C.B. case.
I'm not sure how Remiker can say in one case it's totally unlikely they will find who's behind the scenes, but in another state how the detailed information stored by doctors and pharmacies helps catch people, how you can make peace the implications from both.
Ironically, he was involved in some way with the current case against Dr. Szyman.
Remiker said the ongoing investigation between Metro Drug and the DEA, which began in summer 2013, included using undercover agents as patients along with interviewing Szyman and others.
In an affidavit submitted to the Medical Examining Board as part of the petition for suspension, Remiker said he has consistently received information that Szyman was prescribing mass quantities of narcotics, specifically opioid pain medications.
Sources
Article on C.B.'s death
http://www.htrnews.com/story/news/local/2014/06/08/drug-death-a-painful-memory/10177139/
Article on the DEA report
http://www.htrnews.com/story/news/local/2015/11/07/doctor-overprescribing-deaths/75312268/
Article on drug operations in Manitowoc
http://fox6now.com/2014/04/23/breaking-bad-in-manitowoc-co-two-meth-operations-busted/
[–]Classic_Griswald[S]
That's why I'm kinda interested if he was seeing Dr Szyman. He was a doctor in the area over prescribing narcotics. These drugs are usually under tight restrictions and a responsible doctor prescribes them sparingly. If a doctor is prescribing the way Dr S was, it's almost guaranteed his patients are going to get addicted.
...The fact he operated for 15 years without local interference, and nothing was done until the DEA stepped in, and one of the local DAs had an addiction to the drugs he was handing out, I mean, at the very least it deserves someone looking into it.
[–]Thewormsate
Big money! Doc was probably getting green backs on the back side!
[–]leiluhotnot
So Remiker's working both TH and CB (CB dies the evening TH reported missing, Nov 3). Very busy little bees in rural Manitowoc.
[–]Classic_Griswald[S]
They can trace who has prescriptions but they can't tell which of those people passed the drug on to CB.
Yes, this is where the "investigating" part comes into the job description of "investigator".
Did they match every name of prescribed patients to people C.B. knew? Did they interview the ones that were connected? (More questions: who was she with, who were her friends, where was she, who did she talk to last, etc, etc?) We don't know.
We only have a public statement from Remiker saying finding someone is unlikely, and if they are found they will face a most serious charge. If you had any intent of catching the person would you even say that publicly?
Also, keep in mind she could have gotten it outside of the county.
Well, considering there was a prolific-doctor-prescribing-pain-meds-& methadone-who-was-well-known-at-the-time operating in the area.
Since the neighbouring counties likely didn't have such a doctor (I'm guessing there are less doctors who violate ethics vs ones that do), I would imagine there's a good chance it was in the county.
It's no matter though, nothing is conclusive nor do I claim it to be. But Remiker himself notes in another case how extensive the pharmacy records are (while in another stating how its a needle in a haystack).
Given the charge that they were planning to file, it seems like a case worthy of investigation. I'm guessing it's not that hard to flip people with drug problems either, since they do it all the time. Hell, they had Barb on charges in the Avery case for possession.
[–]OpenMind4U
Something else in connection to 'drug' subject matter. Few weeks ago, on this site, was the 'local' thread in which one of the 'locals' made comment (paraphrasing) that 'drug users/dealers' were the ones who believed that SA was not guilty at the time when majority of people in their community did believe in absolute SA quilt. Somehow, this one comment got my attention.
[–]Classic_Griswald[S]
What I meant was that even if they found someone, they can't prove anything in court. Like, if they find that Bob X was on the prescription list and also was a friend of CB, they can't prove that Bob X gave her some of his drugs. Even if they had a known trafficker, they wouldn't be able to prove it as him to gave it to her (unless there is a clear witness, which is highly unlikely).
This is where they do drug buys or run an undercover operation.
EDIT: Should probably note, that Remiker did later on run an operation targeting the Dr., doing exactly that, undercover buys.
They have a pretty effective one if the person is "dealing" where they pretend to be a big shot, crime boss, or something along those lines. The gist is they tell the guy to work with them, they need to come clean so they can give protection from the cops. (For the Dr., I'm sure just pretending to be a patient worked.)
Or you know, just speak to friends and get someone to roll on them, saying "yes, they hand out (xyz) for money, or when I ask them."
This is there job, again, it's part of being in a drug unit. The lengths American units go to as well, it's surprising they wouldn't push a death with much more manpower. Cities/counties have been and can be turned upside-down when a single death pops up. Search the bath salts saga and you should find plenty of examples.
The finality of the statements given in the C.B. case is odd.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/4aboty/is_this_the_doctor_that_supplied_the_methadone/
[–]Classic_Griswald[S]
Remiker knew about this doctor, not that we know this doctor is related to the C.B. case, but he knew specifically about this doctor since 1999.
In another case, he notes catching the suspects was due to the excellent record keeping by the pharmacies.
Methadone is high regulated, so all the people taking it are tracked and so are the scripts, so all that information would have been available, through the doctor and the pharmacies dispensing it. Its not a drug that can just be prescribed by any doctor, most have to be working with it specifically or a pain specialist, or a rehab specialist, etc.
And given that they did an undercover sting to get the doctor later on, there's no reason why they couldn't pursue the death of C.B. the same way. Find out who she was talking to that had methadone scripts, then work out some kind of undercover operation.
Also, they publicize they want to charge the person that gave it to her with a very serious crime. If they intended to catch them I don't see why they would publicize that. It just doesn't make a lot of sense.
What I'm pointing out is that not only are their contradictory statements, but also contradictory actions, and there was a doctor who had been operating for 15 years unimpeded, in the area, handing out drugs like candy, and Remiker knew about it.
I think the entire case is worth a look if an investigative journalist was looking for something to chase down in Manitowoc.
[–]knowjustice
Have you read Gary Kreie's records? They are really confusing. CB is prohibited from having contact with him. In the meantime, GK is sentenced to prison for 3 years, which is then stayed and he is subsequently sentenced to one year in County. He doesn't show, gets arrested and they revoke his Huber privileges in October. He escapes the day before CB OD's, 11/02/05. He is arrested in Texas in January 2006. Returns and Brown County then sentences him to prison for a crime in their jurisdiction. Seriously, MTSO can't figure out who gave CB the drugs???
Looking at the docket, and considering his lengthy record, the only conclusion I can reach that makes ANY sense is that he agreed to be an informant in return for reduced charges and a light sentence. He has a long B&E history, odd they would sentence him to prison for three years and then stay the sentence. That would explain Remiker's assertion it would be impossible to track down the person who gave her the drugs...yeah, because he was your informant. That would not look too good for the MTSO, especially in 2005.
Carmen's Case:
Wi Case #2005CF000341 Court record events if very interesting.
10-10-2005 Complaint with warrant filed RE: Deliver THC, on 07-25-05
10-13-2005 Defendant in custody on arrest warrant. The matter is continued for an initial appearance on 10-17-05 at 2:30 p.m. Bail is set at $1,000.00 recognizance bond with the condition that the defendant have no contact with Gary Kreie. Bail is furnished and the defendant is released from custody. Arrest warrant with service of officer thereon.
10-17-2005 Defendant demands a preliminary hearing. Preliminary hearing is set for 10-26-05 at 8:30 a.m.
10-25-2005 Review is set for 11-03-05 at 8:30 a.m.
[–]Classic_Griswald[S]
What? No I' sorry this is full of factual errors. Not even close. The drug war is most effective at one thing, making people supremely confused about drugs, which were all sold in tinctures and in "patent medicine" before prohibition started (even the worst or hard ones)
Meth is an amphetamine. A stimulant.
Methadone is an opiod, similar to morphine or heroin (which are effectively identical taken orally) Opiods and opiates are depressants, not stimulant. They are completely different from each other. And while someone taking one could possibly be inclined to take the other, someone who is addicted to one has no reason to take the other. Unless they have two separate addictions, each one being its own.
Yes people who are on methadone programs have to take drug tests, that is true.
Amphetamines are not "free game", and they certainly come up in drug tests.
Methadone programs are a harm reduction strategy. Opiates and Opiods are extremely addictive, and unless you have a strategy to kick a habit, it leads to a lot of problems. In the old days (pre-1900s) it wasn't a huge problem because you could get opium/morphine/heroin tinctures just about anywhere. This means that people could supplement themselves (their addiction) relatively cheaply, and it did not interfere with their lives the way an addiction does today. In fact, one of the four founders of Johns Hopkins hospital was addicted to Opiates (Opium & derivatives) most of his life. He lived I think until close to 70, and he's considered the "father of modern surgery".
In any case, today, things are much different. An addiction can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. That money needs to be supplemented somehow. This leads to criminal behaviour.
Now, in the case of Manitowoc, with a doctor like that, people would have a lot more access. And in the affidavit it says one person was selling their scripts for up to 10,000/month, I believe. So people who had direct access to him may not have suffered the consequences of high cost, but did involve themselves in criminal behaviour, and then anyone below them in the supply chain was also involved in criminal behaviour.
I have gone off on a couple tangents, but bear with me. We are still talking harm reduction. So besides that, you also have adulteration. Immoral or unethical distributors may add other chemicals to the supply, to increase the yield, which, if uneducated may add something that can cause bad reactions. Or a cheaper drug might be added to make a weaker drug more powerful. This carries a huge risk of overdose deaths and basically poisonings, depending on the chemicals involved.
There are plenty more reasons as well, but these are two major factors. So when people get on these programs, they are not burdened with the high cost of illegal drugs, they are not getting involved in the criminal underground supply of drugs (which is the true "gateway"), and they are not at risk of killing themselves taking unknown chemicals.
These kinds of programs have been a godsend for many people. And yes these are considered "maintenance" programs, essentially people are getting drugs. The reason it's better is because it reduces the harm associated with prohibition, it also adds stability to these people's lives and gets them on a regimented program so they can reduce their amounts and ween off of the drugs, if they are so inclined. The quality of life improvements are massive. And the benefit to society equally so.
Will some people abuse the program or take advantage of it, or not do as they are supposed to? Yes. But it is still better than the alternative. If you look to Canada and the United Kingdom, they've had successful trials with heroin instead of methadone. It was actually more effective than methadone. Tell that to a normal person and they think everyone involved must be bonkers. And this is a testament to how badly we have been lied to from day 1, as per the "war" on drugs.
The crime scene on Kuss Rd, there's 4 suburbans lined up (MAM2), just like to know if they are DOJ or FBI.
I have a theory about this crime scene being already there on 4th and 5th, during the flyover videos, that's why they wouldn't show Kuss Rd!
Could they have gotten an anonymous tip about a body being buried there? Were they investigating somebody because of their internet search history and missing girls? Could this have be a command post for FBI or DOJ special ops to monitor the Avery Savage Yard?
This is why I think the DOJ files on this are sealed, they might show a totally different investigation before Teresa was reported missing!
[–]Sarah1863[S]
The DOJ portable crime lab was at Kuss Rd; they could have easily processed the RAV4 on the spot alot faster than moving it. LE didn't have to worry about contamination; there was a portable crime lab at Kuss Rd with trained techs and all the equipment to do the job right. That's what portable crime labs are trained to do, with tents over the cars. LE didn't even have to touch the RAV4.
[–]SpiritWolf395[S]
My theory: At Kuss Rd, the DOJ or FBI were set up there during the flyover video, which means they were already investigating something there.
Maybe they were tipped off to a dead body being buried there, or something of the sorts, but, yea, you have a very interesting theory for sure, sounds logical.
A professional photographer doing Autotrader would starve to death on what they get paid; that, and the fact that anybody could take pictures for Autotrader!
I wish there was some way to date the pictures of Kuss Rd. Even the pilot says something to Jerry Pagel when they fly over Kuss Rd in the plane.
The crappy flyover footage was edited to not show things for sure, but why would the cops try to hide the RAV4 when it should be there, or maybe it's not under the tarp!
[–]black-dog-barks
Exactly ... when you see the big black Suburbans at a crime it usually involves a crime the federal authorities are interested in... gangs, drugs, human trafficking, etc. Most time they are out of the regional or State office of the FBI to see if they have jurisdiction over the scene.
If TH was working undercover, her going missing and a burial site found, the Feds would all over that. It is a red flag that something serious happened.
[–]black-dog-barks
Back in that time frame of early 2000-2005 the country was being hit with rural operations of meth production using old barns in rural areas where the odor of cooking wouldn't be detected by neighbors ...it spurred the successful Breaking Bad TV series.
There has been some conclusive proof the photographer prior to TH at AT was working undercover for the WI DOJ. Drug trade funds from the federal government often require joint task forces with local agencies.
I think we are all going to find when the case is solved by KZ that TH was the new operative working the MC/CC area up to GB, working undercover out of AT.
The video she makes about death could very well been about knowledge working undercover -- if you get exposed you will die a horrible death.
I now believe ST, BoD , and MO were cooking meth either in ST RV just like Breaking Bad or in an old barn on that property. ST used Barb to lure TH to the area with the photo shoot of Barb's minivan. The three working together (ST, BoD , and MO) intercepted her on HWY 147, tortured her down on Kuss Rd, and, when done, buried her body temporarily until they figured a way to dispose of her permanently. Thus the dog hits of a corpse at Kuss Rd.
They did a bad job hiding her SUV near ST's trailer on HWY 147, and it was seen by the truck driver. Thus allowing AC to find it, and put a new battery from the MC Garage into it. And with help of the Sheriff and Lenk, and then MW and TF, framed SA to make the law suit go away.
ST, most likely using the burn barrel and his company's smelter, disposed of most of TH... the MCSO had CB available for planting some bones in SA fire pit... it's why no perfect match of DNA... it's not because of burning but her being a cousin.
ST and BoD alibi each other with help of Barb.... they are able to buy the new house because of the drug trade... the local cops continue taking their bribes to say nothing about their meth operation. Thus MW and Barb remain "friends" all these years.
SA is hated by ST because he was interfering, being around so much, with his meth operation. Thus why ST says it's the best thing that ever happened when SA was sent back to jail.
MaM2 and all the scenes with Barb started my head thinking ..God...she looks like a meth head... a tweeker... then it all fell into place.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/a1egyf/wisconsin_2005_who_drove_the_black_suburbans_the/
[–]dugdiggins
Wilmer Seibert said he was not questioned by police or lawyers except for when an FBI agent came to his door shortly after Halbach went missing and showed him a picture of Halbach and asked if he knew her, which he didn’t.
https://algomaphotoandstory.wordpress.com/2016/04/28/what-steven-averys-neighbour-witnessed/
I'm Jeff Klassen, author of three recent articles on Manitowoc including the one about WS - AMA
By Algoma_Photo_N_Story, TickTockManitowoc
[–]Anniebananagram
Did you ask Wilmer Seibert how he knew it was an FBI agent who visited him? Did he leave a card?
[–]Algoma_Photo_N_Story[S]
He just said it was an FBI agent. I think I asked him repeatedly if it was an FBI agent. He could be misremembering, I don't know. I take it from some of the comments the fact that an FBI agent there is somewhat controversial? I was not aware of that when I spoke with him.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/4o879o/im_jeff_klassen_author_of_three_recent_articles/
[–]Anniebananagram
I think the photo you took of WS was beautiful. You really captured the character and kindness in his face.
I found your article really helpful and quite intriguing. I have some questions for you:
1. Did you ask WS how he knew it was an FBI agent who visited him? Did he leave a card?
2. Did the white Jeep have any markings of any kind?
3. Was WS interested in staying in touch with you to report any updates? Like if he is visited by LE after your article.
4. I'd love to hear more about the occult club investigation you did.
That's it for now!
[–]Algoma_Photo_N_Story[S]
He just said it was an FBI agent. I think I asked him repeatedly if it was an FBI agent. He could be misremembering , I don't know. I take it from some of the comments the fact that an FBI agent there is somewhat controversial? I was not aware of that when I spoke with him.
Just what he said in the article. I asked him many questions about the white Jeep and what he told me was all I could get from him.
He wasn't really interested in staying in touch. Maybe his daughter would be interested. WS seems like he just wants to chill out on his yard and toy around with his old cars and stuff. He is not at all interested in media hype.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/4o879o/im_jeff_klassen_author_of_three_recent_articles/
1 Dead/1 Missing/2 Framed
By August141981, TickTockManitowoc
November 7, 2016
November 3, 2005 was a seemingly busy day for Manitowoc and surrounding areas.
1. Carmen Boutwell was found of a suspicious drug overdose that morning at approximately 8:30 am.
2. Teresa Halbach is reported missing later that day at approximately 5:00 pm.
3. Steven Avery shows on the Global Subject Activity Report Summary as HOMICIDE SUSPECT at 6:34 pm.
Can these three events be connected? It certainly looks as though they can.
Warrant was issued for Carmen Boutwell's arrest on October 10, 2005:
https://wcca.wicourts.gov/caseDetails.do;jsessionid=1FB01A0C071E340DB6CD1315968E172E.render6?caseNo=2005CF000341&countyNo=36&cacheId=A5587DAFB43FFED9A7E1F5AE65F0597E&recordCount=6&offset=3&mode=details&submit=View+Case+Details
September 19, 2005 - was this the test run?
October 10, 2005 - was this a failed or aborted attempt to lure Teresa to her death?
CB Warrant filed Oct 10, 2005
CB Warrant served Oct 12, 2005
CB Bail/Bond Hearing Oct 13, 2005
CB Initial appearance Oct 17, 2005
CB Notice entered Oct 2005 - Review is set for Nov 3, 2005 @ 8:30 am
Teresa Halbach is scheduled with AutoTrader and has an appointment with Steven Avery at salvage yard.
Ryan Hillegas speaks with TH over the phone for 17 minutes the evening of Oct 10, 2005.
Note he called or received calls from TH, and if you look at the phone records of RH, you will see a pattern Oct 10/11 & Oct 30/31.
RH's phone record call patterns do seem quite similar for both Monday the 10th and Monday the 31st.
Monday October 10 2005
8:13 AM Voice
Monday October 10 2005
3:53 PM Incoming Mrc
Monday October 10 2005
5:45 PM 2 DM
Monday October 10 2005
6:20 PM Incoming 17 TH
Monday October 10 2005
6:46 PM MK
Tuesday October 11 2005
6:40 AM MK
Tuesday October 11 2005
7:56 AM Oshkosh
Tuesday October 11 2005
11:31 AM MK
Tuesday October 11 2005
11:43 AM Outgoing TH
The Fateful final 48 hours:
October 30 2005
1:26 PM 1 SB
October 30 2005
1:35 PM 2 SB
October 30 2005
3:30 PM 1 VIDEO
October 31 2005
9:10 AM Incoming 8 DM
October 31 2005
9:41 AM Incoming 2 Unknown
October 31 2005
3:48 PM 1 Voice
October 31 2005
3:50 PM CM
October 31 2005
6:01 PM Incoming 2 Unknown
October 31 2005
6:02 PM Incoming 23 Unknown
October 31 2005
6:25 PM 3 Unknown
October 31 2005
7:19 PM Incoming 3 Unknown
October 31 2005
7:36 PM 2 Unknown
October 31 2005
7:37 PM 2 SB
October 31 2005
7:47 PM Incoming 5 SB
What was CB doing leading up to October 31, 2005?
Prior to October 31, 2005
CB had met with LE days prior to her death. Her grandmother had driven her to an out of the place location where they met LE, and CB sat in the back seat of LE’s car, refusing to tell them what they wanted to hear. She was nervous and anxious about this meeting.
CB - October 31, 2005
On the day of October 31st, her family tells me that she was attending school in prep to attend college and had came home for lunch that day and spoke with her mom about what she was doing for Halloween. CB loved Halloween and she loved shelling out candy to the local kids. She told her mom that she was staying home that night and would look forward to her mom stopping by with her little brother in costume. Unfortunately she never spoke with her again and did not make it over that night to see her.
TH - October 31, 2005
On the day of October 31, 2005, TH is working her Monday at AutoTrader and has an appointment at salvage yard with SA to take photo of his sister's van.
OCTOBER 31 timeline detailed on reddit (angieb15) with many great links:
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/4kvwfc/october_31_2005_timeline/
November 3, 2005
At approximately 8:30 am, CB’s grandmother had gone upstairs and knocked on the door to wake CB, and she did not answer (CB’s lived in an apartment of the upstairs and her grandmother lived downstairs). A few minutes later an unknown female alerted CB’s grandmother that CB may be dead. The grandmother went upstairs where she found CB sitting on the floor, leaning against the stereo, and unresponsive.
MSCO was contacted and responded. Conversations between MCSO and CB’s family immediately ensued and her family was told she had OD’d.
The family of course was devastated. MCSO immediately discussed that they would assist the family with her funeral arrangements. The family paid for CB’s funeral; however, even before CB's body was removed from her apartment, MCSO told the family that they should have her cremated. They advised the family that an autopsy would be done immediately and that they would help with the arrangements for cremation.
The autopsy was completed Nov 4th, and CB’s funeral was Nov 8th.
Her family remembers placing her in the back of the hearse shortly after 1pm on Nov 8th, where she was taken to be cremated. It took 3 weeks for her cremains to be returned to the family.
CB’s family questioned her death a few times to LE and were told that she was a drug addict and to get over it and that finding her killer was virtually impossible. LE never investigated CB's suspicious drug death! MSCO stated in the news article that the case was still open.
At approximately 5:00 pm, Teresa Halbach is reported missing.
Teresa Halbach RAV4 is listed as in custody November 3, 2005 (no time listed on report - source link page 3):
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/MTSO-Summary-Report-on-Homicide-Investigation.pdf
At 6:34 pm, approximately 2 1/5 hours after TH missing person report was filed, SA was documented as TH murder suspect (NOVEMBER 3/05 @ 18:34 hours - Global Subject Activity Report).
Dave Remiker - report shows that he was not working November 3, 2005:
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf#page=1032
This is where I would love to see CB's investigation paperwork, as DR says he was on this case. But he seems to be MIA that day, and then was recorded as being involved in SA case.
At 10:00 pm the breaking news of TH missing on WBAY:
http://wbay.com/2016/01/07/video-nov-3-2005-teresa-halbach-is-missing/
November 4, 2005
Because MSCO had removed the same coroner that was walled off from SA case, CB was driven 2 hours drive to Waukesha County Morgue. Her autopsy was done by Debra P Kakatch, MD Forensic Pathologist, and TH, Forensic Autopsy Assistant.
This autopsy was done Nov 4th, 2005. The autopsy report shows her organs were normal -- that is not indicative to someone who is a “druggie” -- along with the low numbers for methadone & alcohol.
What is questionable is the mention of markings and their location, that she was more apt to have died from suffocation/strangulation rather then OD.
During the autopsy, tissues and samples were taken and stored, and also there was a DNA card made for her.
(NOTE: the coroner DK had contacted CB's family daily, always saying how sorry she was. Her last day calling, she called x3, with the last conversation being that she was removed from the case, and she stopped contacting the family.)
10:00 am Pam Sturm sees news featuring TH (page 197):
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Jury-Trial-Transcript-Day-2-2007Feb13.pdf#page=197
Between 3:10 - 7:25 pm, RH speaks with LE 22 times (I am not posting the link to spread sheet but you all I’m sure are aware).
At 4:00 pm, DaveB & SarahB arrive at salvage yard. They speak with SA and leave a missing person flyer (page 214):
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Jury-Trial-Transcript-Day-1-2007Feb12.pdf#page=214
Between 7:30 - 8:00 pm, SA brother sees headlights near the pit while leaving for Crivitz and calls SA (see report):
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Steven-Avery-Interview-Report-2005Nov05.pdf
Timeline of activity Nov 4, 2005 for TH missing person case:
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/4kwcwi/november_4_2005_timeline/
When you go back and look at CB court documents, the following stands out:
Nov 8 2005, motion and order of dismissal, ordering the action dismissed without prejudice because the defendant is deceased (that is 5 days after she died, that is the very day of her funeral, that is the very day the supposed bones were found on the salvage yard).
In none of CB's other court documents is it logged that she was deceased until the following year, and 2 documents actually still don’t show her as deceased.
Have I gotten your attention yet?
[–][deleted]
Yes, after 11 months on this forum, you have gotten my attention like none other.
[–]bashdotexe
"Shock and Horror" indeed if CB turns out to be a part of this. Her family already had funeral arrangements but MTSO insisted on taking care of it for them? While also not investigating after the autopsy showed strangulation?
This has my attention for sure.
[–]missingtruth
Yes, you have my attention. Great post of connections. Scary...
[–]August141981[S]
thank you, and it's frightening.
[–]Jayyouung
The CB/TH theory has been dismissed so many times but there are definitely some links between the two. Great post that will keep me thinking.
[–]SilkyBeesKnees
You're right! November 3, 2005 was a red letter day for Manitowoc. The CB connection is a weird one. I trust Zellner to prove Avery's innocence but will we ever have the whole story? Excellent post.
[–]7-pairs-of-panties
You've got my attention! The CB connection has always bugged me! I believe there is a connection but can't quite put the puzzle pieces together. Only things I can think of is they used her for her bones AND/OR they used her as a stand in for the bogus Zipperer appt. Great post!
[–]August141981[S]
I assure you CB did not look like the photo in the news article. The photo her mom was holding was of her a few years younger. Yes she resembled the photo somewhat but that was not her look when she died.
[–]foghaze
I can confirm this. I've seen the pic too. They looked nothing alike anymore and she could not have pulled off posing as Teresa. So I hope those who are leaning in this direction can see how that scenario would be impossible.
FYI the markings on her throat are a bit suspicious but after further research seem to be common. I really don't know what to think about her connection, if there is one, anymore. I'm leaning more to no connection TBH.
[–]August141981[S]
Thank you fog and I appreciate your input as always.
[–]foghaze
You're welcome. One thing I do find strange is how she was taken to the coroner in Waukesha and how they made her get an autopsy when none was needed.
It's odd how they immediately called it an overdose when they couldn't have actually known this.
The coroner she was taken to was connected with another corrupt cop case that had recently happened as well in another county but he testified for the defense. It's pretty interesting because a cop shot this guy in the head and some of the cranial pieces were missing, according to him. They were apparently on the ground but he claims he never got them. Crazy huh? You can kinda see where I might be going with that. I will get that info to you when I have the chance.
Also, when I look at the very little amount of drugs in her system compared to the BAC level, I cannot see how she died but I think it's possible had she had never taken methadone before. I'm no expert at all, but the levels of methadone in her system appear very low. However, if this is coupled with alcohol it does make a difference. I do suspect that it's possible she got it from LE.
The deeper I dig the more it looks like the entire state is corrupt.
[–]August141981[S]
Michael Bell Jr is who you are referring?
yes, another interesting case.
[–]foghaze
I can't remember the names or details. It was a while back when I researched all this but it was a corrupt cop case where he pulled a guy over who was supposed to be in court testifying against him in a few hours. Something like that. The cop straight up killed him for no reason at all at close range. He was unarmed.
[–]August141981[S]
this one foghaze?
http://michaelbell.info/MEReport.html
[–]foghaze
Yes, that's the one.
[–]stateurname
Did you have a previous post about a certain guy who had a court date schedule for a certain time? Cant recall, but CB's friend at the time?
[–]August141981[S]
If you are referring to first name rhymes with Mary you quite likely read my posts here:
https://m.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/53o8cu/them_dry_bones/?ref=search_posts
[–]stateurname
Yes! I believe it is, would be from MC or from different area? Just seeing if there was a link with him and any others in the area.
Out of all this mess, I hope the friends around CB have been able to get clean and out of the area.
[–]August141981[S]
I believe we will see change. This is a lot for many of them. Some have, some are and hope others will find the strength to direct themselves in positive ways.
[–]foghaze
Did you have a previous post about a certain guy who had a court date schedule for a certain time? Can't recall, but CB's friend at the time?
Yes, his name was Gary Kreie. According to her family they weren't really friends. They didn't even know who he is but, for some reason, MTSO ordered her to stay away from him.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/4lkfbv/the_curious_case_of_boutwell_kreie/
[–]solunaView
Have you found any maternal relatives that could link CB and TH? Even distantly?
[–]ControlOptional
I looked back all the way to ancestors several generations and found nothing.
[–]solunaView
Yeah, I know a few people did. Thanks. Never hurts to ask new eyes I figured. :) Still not discounting this. The other thing is with only 7 loci matching the odds in the regular population are much better like in the hundreds possibly.
The other thing is we don't know if LE would out and out fake the mtDNA testing. SC has spit on her hands already how much of a leap would it be to just fake a test or three?
[–]August141981[S]
I use to work with a retired forensic guy who had a routine. One day I mentioned his habits to him and that is when I found out his previous work was. In the 5 or so years I worked with him NOT ONCE did he cough in his hands.
Sherry Culhane was a nervous nitty for a reason.
[–]dark-dare
It's called dry labbing and it is more common than you think in state run labs.
[–]August141981[S]
Yes maternal, yes related and distant on father's side. CB's father related to TH's father.
[–]no_idea_4_names
So that wouldn't count towards mtdna then would it? Thought that was all through the mother's side?
[–]August141981[S]
mtdna means nothing! just more fluff on the prosecution side of things.
The reality is that there is plenty of lies and deceit that was created and executed by the prosecution and the thugs.
[–]IvanaVodka
I have also thought they might have used CB's bones. This case is so messed up it's infuriating!
[–]dark-dare
*A few minutes later an unknown female alerted CB’s grandmother that CB may be dead the grandmother went upstairs where she found CB sitting on the floor leaning against the stereo and unresponsive.*
WOAH WTF. Do you have any further information, where did this come from?
[–]August141981[S]
Frightening isn't it...I've been deep deep down in the CB rabbit hole. All the fluff that KK made in regards to DNA and such is just that.
This information and more has been turned over to proper authority, and I can't wait for that ship to sink and those responsible for this heinous crime are made accountable.
They framed them, they shamed them and they stole their lives.
I was sickened by what they did to SA x2. I was horrified by what they did to BD. I'm frightened by what they did to CB.
These are people who are supposed to be looking after "we the people," and for decades they've only been looking after themselves. it's disgusting.
The weight we carry with the information we gather! I'm at the point I just want it all to come out and those 2 innocent men released.
[–][deleted]
[deleted]
[–]August141981[S]
Perhaps KK.
I mean he had a drug problem, obvious narcissistic behaviour, money problems, failed marriage, rehab, and the list goes on. The kind that really isn't going to turn down an opportunity. My read is he might just not have gotten the memo at rehab and prefers the messed up kind of behaviour.
I don't know why someone like him has left his fb wide open for the world to see. Is that part of his messed up behaviour or is it KZ. She's brilliant.
[–]dark-dare
Any WTF revelations to do with the boyfriend, who skipped jail the day before CB died, who was thought to be an informant?
Who is the woman (the unknown female)??? WB popped to mind. Also, the dispatcher was a neighbor!
[–]August141981[S]
He was not a boyfriend. I have been told either he or someone else he associated with were also seen outside her home the day she was found deceased.
He should have never been given a huber. if you go back thru his records you will see he didn't qualify for such a privilege.
[–]7-pairs-of-panties
And the non boyfriend of CB that your referring to, Gary Kreie, is FB friends with WB.
He was also put back in the slammer soon after MAM came out.
[–]August141981[S]
He has an interesting group of friends and connections. He lost his father young. Seems the loss of his sister crushed him. He didn't seem to get a great response on his last couple posts on fb.
[–]angieb15
Can you say where you got all the details? Because some of this is previously unknown and fascinating...
[–]August141981[S]
Direct connections to CB, and it's both fascinating and frightening, thru many months and tons of reading and telephone conversations. Working with some really great thinkers. I surely couldn't have gathered all on my own but was encouraged to post this here and hope to gather further thoughts and information.
[–][deleted]
I am interested in her sitting in the car with LE and not telling them what they wanted to hear. What did they want to hear?
[–]August141981[S]
It is believed that DEA was there at the meeting as well. I am convinced that CB knew something or was being pressured for something and refused to play the game or was silenced.
I believe from my information gathered that this is a case of 1 dead, 1 missing, and 2 framed.
[–][deleted]
Are you implying something with "one dead and one missing" rather than two dead?
[–]August141981[S]
One is dead and one is missing. I'm not implying anything. CB is confirmed and documented as deceased. TH is reported missing. There is no proof of rape/torture/mutilation or murder no body fluid/blood no damage to the bed where supposed rape took place. Heck car-char-ski the officer I refer as "dopey" sat on the very bed of the crime scene and took notes while the other 2 idiots packed up the evidence they just planted.
And it all started with a sweaty narcissistic story teller, and we're all still rooting, searching for the murderer that we were told about.
[–]stateurname
Your OP is so good. If you are in the area, you have to think vacation for a while.
[–]August141981[S]
I don't live in USA but certainly hope to one day meet CB's family. A bond is created now, and no matter the outcome, her death needs to be investigated by trusted authorities.
[–]seekingtruthforgood
If you haven't already read this, you may find this older post (x-post) and its comments fascinating:
https://np.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/4aboty/is_this_the_doctor_that_supplied_the_methadone/
[–]August141981[S]
CB was found dead the morning of Nov 3rd. It's listed on her autopsy report as is the date of her autopsy being Nov 4. It's been confirmed, and report has been turned over to team Zellner months ago.
[–]August141981[S]
There was an unknown/unnamed female there when CB was found but there were others that left in the night.
[–]SBRH33
I hope to hear much more about this. I have quietly kept the CB thoughts to myself for a long time.
Most would consider it too far fetched of a plot. I personally really don't think it is.
These guys (MTSO) were up against a real tough wall. It was all hands on deck.
[–]covertoperations911
This is a fantastic post - such incredibly important information. I can't thank you enough for sharing all of it with us and for giving the Boutwell family a voice. The revelations about the autopsy and the cremation are astounding.
Boutwell wasn't simply being processed through the courts: she was on the radar of the federal security services - and for reasons that remain unknown even today.
According to the information you've gathered:
1. A number of people were present in and around Boutwell's residence on Nov. 2 and Nov. 3.
2. There were the unidentified persons who "left in the night" on Nov. 2.
3. The following day, Kreie or an alleged associate, is seen outside her home.
4. Later, Boutwell's grandmother is told that she "may be dead" by an unidentified female.
What was going on at her house that night?
I'm absolutely floored. Something evil was happening in this county in October-November 2005.
[–]August141981[S]
Something evil has been happening there for decades.
She was a young girl who had friends over that is not out of the ordinary, but what happened to her and what led up to her death is not ordinary and should absolutely be investigated.
If we allow fear of speaking up and speaking out prevent us from exposing truth then evil wins.
[–]lilypadbitch
Evil shall not win if those who know the truth come forward and stop the cycle of corruption. It is like a family with a hidden secret and no one wants to exposé it because then everyone will know the sins of the family.
I think there is more secrets that the state of WI does not want the rest of the country to know about but I bet we are all guilty of the same corruption.
Sad to say but this goes all the way to the top of our leadership here in the US.
[–]August141981[S]
you're absolutely correct. from what I've seen, and it isn't just this case, there are many others of the like. This doesn't happen unless you have higher ups either covering or involved...when it comes down to it if they have kept these secrets this long they are responsible.
[–][deleted]
After reading this it's starting to feel like the CB case needs its own forum. A lot of info will get lost in this thread so it would be great to have something more in depth where the whole case can be taken apart.
[–]August141981[S]
11 years ago today CB family laid her to rest, amongst all the noise and utter chaos that was thrown into their world. They were kept in a state that they were unable to see everything that was going on outside of their devastation and loss.
same MO as Avery case.
[–]hopeville
When I first heard about MTSO offering to cremate CB, I figured it was her bones on SA's property. TH's bones are long gone. Unless there was 100% proof that some of them were in fact hers. But I don't recall that being the case.
[–]August141981[S]
I'd love to sing to the world about a girl named CB. but if my information seems vague then I apologize, and you are free to ask anything further. Should I be able to further indulge in answering I will. However, the people I've spoken with, I earned their respect and trust and I would not intentionally jeopardize the bond of friendship we have created over these past few months.
Sometimes things just can't be said for good reason.
CB death has never been investigated if you catch my drift.
[–]NewbieDoobieDoo7
Okay so you're saying you personally spoke (over the internet?) with people close to CB and/or the investigation (or lack thereof)? Have you vetted these people to make sure they are who they say they are? I'm not trying to get you to divulge your source(s) but we've been lied to before...
[–]August141981[S]
spoke personally, yes, as have others & they have been vetted.
Just to be clear, I'm not a lone wolf, and I'm not a "you heard it hear first kind of person."
Foghaze is one of a small group of people who has been introduced to some of the sources.
It's going to go down like dominos.
[–]NewbieDoobieDoo7
So people close to the CB case think that there is a link between her and TH's death?
[–]August141981[S]
All who have directly connected ourselves to CB and those who knew her say this: "If CB is not connected to this, her death requires a complete and trustworthy investigation."
We will all support it and demand it.
[–]lilypadbitch
What was CB doing leading up to October 31, 2005 Prior to October 31/05 - CB had met with LE days prior to her death. Her grandmother had driven her to an out of the place location where they met LE and CB sat in the back seat of LE’s car refusing to tell them what they wanted to hear. She was nervous and anxious about this meeting. - August141981
What LE was involved in meeting with her? What was the reason for her to meet with them?
If we knew more about what CB and TH where doing months before Oct. 31st it could tell a lot about what happened to both of them. What was going on in their lives prior to Oct 31?
Thank you for posting August141981. I have been waiting to see your insight to the CB connection.
There is some disturbing stuff going on in the shadows of this investigation. This is no coincidence to the connections of events. I believe there is some deep organized criminal activity going on in WI that they are desperately trying to keep hidden.
[–]August141981[S]
Thanks for letting me high jack your thread awhile back. I've dipped my toes in this CB conversation or at least attempted since late Jan early feb and, well, conversations never ended nicely or no one was just open to discuss. I was thankful for the open conversation.
We can't be 100% certain. So open conversation is really helpful to us all. Fact finding and then creating our own understanding of the case.
[–][deleted]
Did you have a different name then? I was mmh150 or cremation of sam mcgee, and I believe I was one of the first, if not the first, to bring up CB's coincidental death mid Jan. (I'm not bragging, its just that people shot me down very quickly and I can't recall your involvement in the discussions, for some reason). Your filling in the blanks of this story is fascinating to me, therefore. I have always believed in justice for CB as well as others caught up in this mess.
[–]August141981[S]
yes I used a different name. To be honest I didn't even use reddit in the beginning. I used fb and other venues. I was horrified when I seen previous posts in here from a while back where people were disrespecting my personal space and bombarding comments with my personal full name, who I was, who I associate with. All eager to negatively bash me and discredit the information found. So I stepped away and have recently returned because those I trust encouraged me to do so.
[–]ahhhreallynow
Any known connections between SB or RH or TH on a social level?
[–]August141981[S]
You mean with CB? No one I spoke with was able to connect any of those 3 with CB.
[–]August141981[S]
Yes, I believe CB was the target/victim. When you take all the evidence, and not just what they chose to use in Avery/Dassey trials, and sort through it, CB always ends up as the most possible. LE and media went immediately to the story line of rape/torture/mutilation and zero news on CB suspicious death. If you don't talk about it just goes away. Or so they thought.
[–]ICUNurse1
I have read this post no less than five times since it was originally posted. There are so many questions I have and know you probably can't answer. But I feel sad that if this indeed true, a young woman was used to disguise corruption and hatred. Although I feel bad for TH's parents, I feel worse for CB's.
[–]August141981[S]
Thank you for saying that. I have honestly wept many times since a girl named CB opened my eyes to just shocking information.
Everyone's life matters. We all want truth not lies.
[–]Kkman1971
I remember another great former poster that seems to have disappeared as of late. TID was very interested in the CB "coincidence" aspect as well.... it seems there is much more to this story, and I am sure we will all learn more about it when KZ lays out the "shock and horror" of this entire enigma. You can check out his last update on it on his website... more things that make you go "hummmmmm"... TID
[–]August141981[S]
yes, The Inspiring Dad is also included in our group of thinkers and has sat in conversations as a group and found information on his own as well.
[–]Messwiththebull
Manitowoc LE serial killers?
[–]August141981[S]
that would be an accusation that I'm not prepared to take a stance on, however, a full investigation of many cases involving said individuals should be happening!
[–]DaveBegotka
These is not the only questionable crimes committed in this area..... this group of people have dirt and blood all over their hands.
[–]lilypadbitch
This is so true and IMO has been going on for a long, long, long time. They ALL need to be exposed and held responsible for their crimes.
Time to WAKE UP WISCONSIN! Quit lying and hiding your dirty little secrets.
IMO - Shut the entire State down and start over with people who #1. Not related and #2. They can do their fricken job with integrity and without hidden agendas.
[–]DaveBegotka
Sounds like the only choice because the corruption goes all the way to the top.
Is this the doctor that supplied the Methadone that killed Carmen Boutwell? +more re:Remiker
by Classic_Griswald, MakingaMurderer
For anyone who is not up to date, Carmen Boutwell (who I will refer to as C.B. from now on) is a girl that died very, very close in time to T.H.
Not only were they around the same age, they also looked very similar
There has been some speculation as to whether or not the C.B. death was related to the T.H. Case is some respect. She dies of a methadone overdose, right around the time T.H. went missing.
In fact, I remember listening to a call about the body of Carmen begin found, and someone asked if it was T.H. There was slight confusion among some people at the time. Of course this in itself is harmless. However, there was further speculation that the MTSO arranged the disposal or (looking for better words), the finalization of C.B.'s remains. And questions as to whether she was cremated.
I think the latter speculation there is going a little too far. Especially with nothing to back it up. It's most likely someone pushing their own ideas of what might've happened. Unless it can be sourced, in which I and others would like to see.
Lt. Dave Remiker of the Manitowoc County Metro Drug Unit.
Remiker was working the case - and claims that they had little hope of finding whoever supplied the methadone to C.B.
Here is the problem with that statement: while C.B. did not have a prescription, methadone is a highly, highly controlled substance. It's not just handed out to anyone.
It's used as a substitution drug for people who are addicted to opiates/opiods, and in a smaller place like Manitowoc, they should be able to get a list of every single person who has a script. Then comparing that with people she knows, it seems like it's not so much a needle in a haystack, but a needle hanging on a few threads.
Boutwell “didn’t have a prescription (for methadone). Somebody provided those drugs to her,” Luchterhand said. Cases such as this are challenging to investigate; often those responsible are reluctant to come forward because they know the family or don’t want to put a stop to their flow of drugs, he said. “It’s like finding a needle in a haystack,” Remiker said. “And then obtaining enough evidence to prove a case beyond a reasonable doubt is the standard we’re held to.”
Fast forward to 2016
A doctor is in trouble in Manitowoc. What for? He's a pain doctor who's been prescribing pain meds and methadone like they are candies.
Not only is he on the hook for overprescribing, but there is evidence many people have gotten sick or died from his prescribing habits. And apparently he was well known to police for 15 years.
Link to affidavit
http://fox11digital.com/news/PDFs/Szyman%20complaint.pdf
Remiker's affidavit says he's known about this doctor since 1999. It would be interesting to know if he investigated this doc to see if he had any connection to CB.
At first I thought this wouldn't pan out, since there are so many years past, the chances of a doctor who is in trouble today, was involved in the same behaviour 10 years ago is slim, right? Not in this case. Police say he's had a reputation, from regular people to themselves. He's known as 'the Candy Man'.
Capt. Scott Luchterhand of the Manitowoc Police Department said law enforcement has been familiar with Dr. Charles Szyman’s reputation for at least 15 years. “He’s known in our community as a drug dealer with a license,” he said. “He’s also considered the candy man by the people out on the street that are abusing all these prescriptions.”
Here are some of the pertinent information from the DEAs look into the doctor:
Contained in the DEA's 515 pages of reports and evidence, a Jan. 22, 2015, report from the Manitowoc County Coroner's Office states that between Feb. 22, 2013, and Dec. 5, 2014, seven of Szyman's patients died of the following causes:
accident: morphine toxicity, oral injection of morphine, chronic
substance abuse
acute methadone intoxication
suicide
accidental overdose of prescription medications
mixed drug toxicity (three patients)
But wait, when the Carmen Boutwell case came up, Remiker was in charge, or at least participating in the case, and he said there was little chance they would ever find out who gave the methadone to C.B.
In such a small place like Manitowoc, this seems unlikely. Even if Dr. S was giving meds out like candy, he'd still have to track every person he gave it to. And if he is well known to people on the street, and police for over prescribing narcotics, including methadone, it seems like a place to start, doesn't it? It also seems less like a needle in a haystack.
In another case, where they were hunting down people making methamphetamines, Remiker notes that the pharmacy logs are comprehensive. Pretty much as I am stating in this thread:
"We have a tendency to use pharmacy logs. What's common is the purchase of pseudoephedrine products, which is one of the main ingredients in meth production," Lt. Dave Remiker with the Manitowoc County Metro Drug Unit said. Lt. Remiker says a tip led investigators to the 33-year-old and 29-year-old. "They had a pretty extensive habit with prescription drugs and meth," Lt. Remiker said.
Another interesting point about all of these events, this seems to have happened right around the time that Remiker was all bummed out, between the call with him and Wiegert, when they were discussing Zipperer being the last stop for T.H. the day she went missing.
I'm curious now as to why he was bummed out? Someone speculating might be wondering maybe he was pushed away from following up properly on the C.B. case.
I'm not sure how Remiker can say in one case it's totally unlikely they will find who's behind the scenes, but in another state how the detailed information stored by doctors and pharmacies helps catch people, how you can make peace the implications from both.
Ironically, he was involved in some way with the current case against Dr. Szyman.
Remiker said the ongoing investigation between Metro Drug and the DEA, which began in summer 2013, included using undercover agents as patients along with interviewing Szyman and others.
In an affidavit submitted to the Medical Examining Board as part of the petition for suspension, Remiker said he has consistently received information that Szyman was prescribing mass quantities of narcotics, specifically opioid pain medications.
Sources
Article on C.B.'s death
http://www.htrnews.com/story/news/local/2014/06/08/drug-death-a-painful-memory/10177139/
Article on the DEA report
http://www.htrnews.com/story/news/local/2015/11/07/doctor-overprescribing-deaths/75312268/
Article on drug operations in Manitowoc
http://fox6now.com/2014/04/23/breaking-bad-in-manitowoc-co-two-meth-operations-busted/
[–]Classic_Griswald[S]
That's why I'm kinda interested if he was seeing Dr Szyman. He was a doctor in the area over prescribing narcotics. These drugs are usually under tight restrictions and a responsible doctor prescribes them sparingly. If a doctor is prescribing the way Dr S was, it's almost guaranteed his patients are going to get addicted.
...The fact he operated for 15 years without local interference, and nothing was done until the DEA stepped in, and one of the local DAs had an addiction to the drugs he was handing out, I mean, at the very least it deserves someone looking into it.
[–]Thewormsate
Big money! Doc was probably getting green backs on the back side!
[–]leiluhotnot
So Remiker's working both TH and CB (CB dies the evening TH reported missing, Nov 3). Very busy little bees in rural Manitowoc.
[–]Classic_Griswald[S]
They can trace who has prescriptions but they can't tell which of those people passed the drug on to CB.
Yes, this is where the "investigating" part comes into the job description of "investigator".
Did they match every name of prescribed patients to people C.B. knew? Did they interview the ones that were connected? (More questions: who was she with, who were her friends, where was she, who did she talk to last, etc, etc?) We don't know.
We only have a public statement from Remiker saying finding someone is unlikely, and if they are found they will face a most serious charge. If you had any intent of catching the person would you even say that publicly?
Also, keep in mind she could have gotten it outside of the county.
Well, considering there was a prolific-doctor-prescribing-pain-meds-& methadone-who-was-well-known-at-the-time operating in the area.
Since the neighbouring counties likely didn't have such a doctor (I'm guessing there are less doctors who violate ethics vs ones that do), I would imagine there's a good chance it was in the county.
It's no matter though, nothing is conclusive nor do I claim it to be. But Remiker himself notes in another case how extensive the pharmacy records are (while in another stating how its a needle in a haystack).
Given the charge that they were planning to file, it seems like a case worthy of investigation. I'm guessing it's not that hard to flip people with drug problems either, since they do it all the time. Hell, they had Barb on charges in the Avery case for possession.
[–]OpenMind4U
Something else in connection to 'drug' subject matter. Few weeks ago, on this site, was the 'local' thread in which one of the 'locals' made comment (paraphrasing) that 'drug users/dealers' were the ones who believed that SA was not guilty at the time when majority of people in their community did believe in absolute SA quilt. Somehow, this one comment got my attention.
[–]Classic_Griswald[S]
What I meant was that even if they found someone, they can't prove anything in court. Like, if they find that Bob X was on the prescription list and also was a friend of CB, they can't prove that Bob X gave her some of his drugs. Even if they had a known trafficker, they wouldn't be able to prove it as him to gave it to her (unless there is a clear witness, which is highly unlikely).
This is where they do drug buys or run an undercover operation.
EDIT: Should probably note, that Remiker did later on run an operation targeting the Dr., doing exactly that, undercover buys.
They have a pretty effective one if the person is "dealing" where they pretend to be a big shot, crime boss, or something along those lines. The gist is they tell the guy to work with them, they need to come clean so they can give protection from the cops. (For the Dr., I'm sure just pretending to be a patient worked.)
Or you know, just speak to friends and get someone to roll on them, saying "yes, they hand out (xyz) for money, or when I ask them."
This is there job, again, it's part of being in a drug unit. The lengths American units go to as well, it's surprising they wouldn't push a death with much more manpower. Cities/counties have been and can be turned upside-down when a single death pops up. Search the bath salts saga and you should find plenty of examples.
The finality of the statements given in the C.B. case is odd.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/4aboty/is_this_the_doctor_that_supplied_the_methadone/
[–]Classic_Griswald[S]
Remiker knew about this doctor, not that we know this doctor is related to the C.B. case, but he knew specifically about this doctor since 1999.
In another case, he notes catching the suspects was due to the excellent record keeping by the pharmacies.
Methadone is high regulated, so all the people taking it are tracked and so are the scripts, so all that information would have been available, through the doctor and the pharmacies dispensing it. Its not a drug that can just be prescribed by any doctor, most have to be working with it specifically or a pain specialist, or a rehab specialist, etc.
And given that they did an undercover sting to get the doctor later on, there's no reason why they couldn't pursue the death of C.B. the same way. Find out who she was talking to that had methadone scripts, then work out some kind of undercover operation.
Also, they publicize they want to charge the person that gave it to her with a very serious crime. If they intended to catch them I don't see why they would publicize that. It just doesn't make a lot of sense.
What I'm pointing out is that not only are their contradictory statements, but also contradictory actions, and there was a doctor who had been operating for 15 years unimpeded, in the area, handing out drugs like candy, and Remiker knew about it.
I think the entire case is worth a look if an investigative journalist was looking for something to chase down in Manitowoc.
[–]knowjustice
Have you read Gary Kreie's records? They are really confusing. CB is prohibited from having contact with him. In the meantime, GK is sentenced to prison for 3 years, which is then stayed and he is subsequently sentenced to one year in County. He doesn't show, gets arrested and they revoke his Huber privileges in October. He escapes the day before CB OD's, 11/02/05. He is arrested in Texas in January 2006. Returns and Brown County then sentences him to prison for a crime in their jurisdiction. Seriously, MTSO can't figure out who gave CB the drugs???
Looking at the docket, and considering his lengthy record, the only conclusion I can reach that makes ANY sense is that he agreed to be an informant in return for reduced charges and a light sentence. He has a long B&E history, odd they would sentence him to prison for three years and then stay the sentence. That would explain Remiker's assertion it would be impossible to track down the person who gave her the drugs...yeah, because he was your informant. That would not look too good for the MTSO, especially in 2005.
Carmen's Case:
Wi Case #2005CF000341 Court record events if very interesting.
10-10-2005 Complaint with warrant filed RE: Deliver THC, on 07-25-05
10-13-2005 Defendant in custody on arrest warrant. The matter is continued for an initial appearance on 10-17-05 at 2:30 p.m. Bail is set at $1,000.00 recognizance bond with the condition that the defendant have no contact with Gary Kreie. Bail is furnished and the defendant is released from custody. Arrest warrant with service of officer thereon.
10-17-2005 Defendant demands a preliminary hearing. Preliminary hearing is set for 10-26-05 at 8:30 a.m.
10-25-2005 Review is set for 11-03-05 at 8:30 a.m.
[–]Classic_Griswald[S]
What? No I' sorry this is full of factual errors. Not even close. The drug war is most effective at one thing, making people supremely confused about drugs, which were all sold in tinctures and in "patent medicine" before prohibition started (even the worst or hard ones)
Meth is an amphetamine. A stimulant.
Methadone is an opiod, similar to morphine or heroin (which are effectively identical taken orally) Opiods and opiates are depressants, not stimulant. They are completely different from each other. And while someone taking one could possibly be inclined to take the other, someone who is addicted to one has no reason to take the other. Unless they have two separate addictions, each one being its own.
Yes people who are on methadone programs have to take drug tests, that is true.
Amphetamines are not "free game", and they certainly come up in drug tests.
Methadone programs are a harm reduction strategy. Opiates and Opiods are extremely addictive, and unless you have a strategy to kick a habit, it leads to a lot of problems. In the old days (pre-1900s) it wasn't a huge problem because you could get opium/morphine/heroin tinctures just about anywhere. This means that people could supplement themselves (their addiction) relatively cheaply, and it did not interfere with their lives the way an addiction does today. In fact, one of the four founders of Johns Hopkins hospital was addicted to Opiates (Opium & derivatives) most of his life. He lived I think until close to 70, and he's considered the "father of modern surgery".
In any case, today, things are much different. An addiction can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. That money needs to be supplemented somehow. This leads to criminal behaviour.
Now, in the case of Manitowoc, with a doctor like that, people would have a lot more access. And in the affidavit it says one person was selling their scripts for up to 10,000/month, I believe. So people who had direct access to him may not have suffered the consequences of high cost, but did involve themselves in criminal behaviour, and then anyone below them in the supply chain was also involved in criminal behaviour.
I have gone off on a couple tangents, but bear with me. We are still talking harm reduction. So besides that, you also have adulteration. Immoral or unethical distributors may add other chemicals to the supply, to increase the yield, which, if uneducated may add something that can cause bad reactions. Or a cheaper drug might be added to make a weaker drug more powerful. This carries a huge risk of overdose deaths and basically poisonings, depending on the chemicals involved.
There are plenty more reasons as well, but these are two major factors. So when people get on these programs, they are not burdened with the high cost of illegal drugs, they are not getting involved in the criminal underground supply of drugs (which is the true "gateway"), and they are not at risk of killing themselves taking unknown chemicals.
These kinds of programs have been a godsend for many people. And yes these are considered "maintenance" programs, essentially people are getting drugs. The reason it's better is because it reduces the harm associated with prohibition, it also adds stability to these people's lives and gets them on a regimented program so they can reduce their amounts and ween off of the drugs, if they are so inclined. The quality of life improvements are massive. And the benefit to society equally so.
Will some people abuse the program or take advantage of it, or not do as they are supposed to? Yes. But it is still better than the alternative. If you look to Canada and the United Kingdom, they've had successful trials with heroin instead of methadone. It was actually more effective than methadone. Tell that to a normal person and they think everyone involved must be bonkers. And this is a testament to how badly we have been lied to from day 1, as per the "war" on drugs.
TV: The Shame of Wisconsin
By Lorrie Moore
The New York Review of Books
FEBRUARY 25, 2016
Halbach’s roommate did not report her missing for almost four days.
Her former boyfriend is never asked for an alibi, and can’t remember precisely when he last saw her. Was it morning or afternoon? He can’t recall. Nonetheless he was put in charge of the search party that was combing the area near the Avery property in the days after she was finally reported missing.
So who did this? Possibly Steven Avery.
But it looks like a crime that can never be properly solved.
The story Avery’s defense team tells of law enforcement planting evidence is completely convincing, and such conduct is hardly unprecedented in tales of true crime.
The Averys were not allowed on their own property for eight days while police roamed and rooted around, after which the scattered cremains, Avery’s blood in the victim’s car, and the victim’s spare car key were all “discovered.” Blood taken from Avery in 1995 was also found to have been tampered with in police storage.
But showing that there was police-planted evidence does not solve the crime; it only underscores its Not Proven status for purposes of a courtroom defense. And so the filmmakers’ story—if it is a crime story, a human story—is missing parts.
One may be struck by the complete absence of drugs and drug business in a neck of the woods where such activities often feature prominently.
The victim’s personal life is almost completely missing and so she seems a tragic cipher.
And although she and her scarcely seen boyfriend are broken up, he still figures out how to hack into her cell phone account and attempts with anxious nonchalance to explain on camera and on the stand how he did so, though it seems to have been done with some extremely lucky guessing involving her sisters’ birth dates.
Messages are found deleted. This seems more damning than the three calls Avery himself made to Halbach, returning a call from her the day she disappeared. The fact of Avery’s calls to Halbach was left out of the film (though it was offered as evidence in the trial), as if the filmmakers themselves were unreasonably, narratively afraid of it.
Early on, because of Avery’s civil suit, Manitowoc investigators were ordered by the state to allow neighboring Calumet County to do the primary investigation into the murder: conflict of interest, due to the wrongful imprisonment civil suit, was recognized from the start. But this was not enforced and Manitowoc sheriffs did not stay away, and the opportunities for evidence-planting were myriad.
The prosecutor and even the judges are seen to proceed with bias, professional self-interest, visible boredom, and lack of curiosity. At one point the special prosecutor is seen in the courtroom staring off into the middle distance, playing with a rubber band.
The story one does see clearly here is really a story of small-town malice. The label “white trash,” not only dehumanizing but classist and racist—the term presumes trash is not ordinarily white—is never heard in this documentary. Perhaps the phrase is too southern in its origins. But it is everywhere implied.
The Averys are referred to repeatedly by others in their community as “those people” and those “kind of people.” “You did not choose your parents,” says an interrogator, trying to ply answers out of sixteen-year-old Brendan, though his parents are irrelevant to the examination and are not being criminally accused of anything.
Yet the entire family is socially accused: outsiders, troublemakers, feisty, and a little dim.
What one hears amid the chorus of accusers is the malice of the village.
Village malice toward its own fringes has been dramatized powerfully in literary and film narrative—from Shirley Jackson’s “The Lottery” to Arthur Miller’s The Crucible to the Michael Haneke film The White Ribbon to Suzanne Collins’s The Hunger Games.
Trimming the raggedy edges is how a village stays a village, how it remains itself. Contemporary shunning and cleansing may take new and different forms but they always retain the same heartlessness, the unacknowledged violence, the vaguely genocidal thinking.
An investigator ostensibly on Brendan’s defense team speaks openly of his distaste for the Avery family tree and says, “Someone said to me we need to end the gene pool here.”
The German word Mitläufer comes to mind: going along to get along, in a manner that does not avoid misdeeds—one of the many banalities of evil.
Certainly one feels that frightened herd mentality among the Manitowoc law enforcement as well as members of the jury, the majority of whom were initially reasonably doubtful but who, swayed by a persuasive minority, soon unified to a unanimous vote of guilty.
Even the jury in Brendan’s trial did not question the nature of the defendant’s several and contradictory confessions, such was their prejudice against the boy.
It may or may not be useful to recall that early German settlers of Wisconsin, escaping the nineteenth-century military autocracy in Europe, once believed that the American Civil War would break up the Union, producing some independent states that could then come under German rule. These ordinary German citizens did not get their own state, of course, and in fact had to share it with Scandinavians, Poles, and even Bulgarian and Cornish miners, but certain stereotypical German burgher traits—from rule-boundedness to tidiness to anti-Semitism—are sometimes said to have persisted in Wisconsin life. (A shocking number of Nazi sympathizers once resided in Milwaukee.) A reputation for niceness may obscure rather than express the midwestern character.
When watching two New Yorkers construct a film about the sketchy Wisconsin legal system one may overreach for cultural memes. (Cogent thesis-making is not this film’s strong point, or its mission, and so a viewer is likely to veer off independently. Thus the Internet and media are full of armchair sleuths and amateur psychologists in the growing discussion of the film.) But conformity and silence on the job are elements in this tale, and they are timely subjects.
Businesswoman and amateur social scientist Margaret Heffernan has recently been publicizing the results of her workplace survey of “willful blindness.” According to Heffernan, 85 percent of people know there is something wrong at work but will not come forward to report or discuss it. When she consulted with Germans they said, “Oh, yes. This is the German disease.” But when she consulted with the Swiss she was told, “This is a uniquely Swiss problem.” In the UK: “The British are really bad at this.” And so on. Willful blindness is everywhere, though touched on only glancingly in the film.
And so it comes as something of a surprise that what the documentary does linger over most single-mindedly—either deliberately or unconsciously—is the theme of mother love (perhaps not unrelated to willful blindness on the job). It is not just Brendan’s mother Barb who is her son’s impressively fierce defender. Barb is described by her son’s lawyer as a bulldog, and clearly the lawyer is afraid of her. In her close protectiveness toward Brendan she quickly understands that he is ill-served by the court-appointed defense.
But the filmmakers’ story is also of Steven Avery’s aging and devoted mother Dolores, who packs up boxes of photocopied letters and transcripts and sends them everywhere—from Sixty Minutes to 20/20—hoping to get some journalists interested in her son’s case.
The effect of the media is a fraught one in this film—local TV news influenced many of the jurors, and the prosecution often used the press to communicate in unethical ways.
Making a Murderer has invited parallels to the podcast Serial, which has recently, and intrusively, played a role in getting a convicted murderer a new hearing, though the evidence in that case was much more substantial: a crime of passion by a jealous and brokenhearted boy.
The Teresa Halbach case is more mystifying.
Meanwhile, short and lame and chewing on her lips, Dolores Avery visits her son in three different prisons in Wisconsin and one in Tennessee. She speaks to him on the phone regularly and optimistically. In her fruit-printed housedresses and floral shirts she faces the camera and conducts calm tirades against the legal system that has taken her son away.
The filmmakers give her more screen time than anyone would ordinarily expect—and she and her husband close the documentary with a sense of domestic resilience.
Their son and grandson are in prison for murder. Their business has gone under. Yet they will continue. Arm in arm! A vegetable garden of kohlrabis! A smile of faith and hope! The film is in the grip of its own sentimental awe. But there are worse things in the world.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/02/25/making-murderer-shame-of-wisconsin/
By Lorrie Moore
The New York Review of Books
FEBRUARY 25, 2016
Halbach’s roommate did not report her missing for almost four days.
Her former boyfriend is never asked for an alibi, and can’t remember precisely when he last saw her. Was it morning or afternoon? He can’t recall. Nonetheless he was put in charge of the search party that was combing the area near the Avery property in the days after she was finally reported missing.
So who did this? Possibly Steven Avery.
But it looks like a crime that can never be properly solved.
The story Avery’s defense team tells of law enforcement planting evidence is completely convincing, and such conduct is hardly unprecedented in tales of true crime.
The Averys were not allowed on their own property for eight days while police roamed and rooted around, after which the scattered cremains, Avery’s blood in the victim’s car, and the victim’s spare car key were all “discovered.” Blood taken from Avery in 1995 was also found to have been tampered with in police storage.
But showing that there was police-planted evidence does not solve the crime; it only underscores its Not Proven status for purposes of a courtroom defense. And so the filmmakers’ story—if it is a crime story, a human story—is missing parts.
One may be struck by the complete absence of drugs and drug business in a neck of the woods where such activities often feature prominently.
The victim’s personal life is almost completely missing and so she seems a tragic cipher.
And although she and her scarcely seen boyfriend are broken up, he still figures out how to hack into her cell phone account and attempts with anxious nonchalance to explain on camera and on the stand how he did so, though it seems to have been done with some extremely lucky guessing involving her sisters’ birth dates.
Messages are found deleted. This seems more damning than the three calls Avery himself made to Halbach, returning a call from her the day she disappeared. The fact of Avery’s calls to Halbach was left out of the film (though it was offered as evidence in the trial), as if the filmmakers themselves were unreasonably, narratively afraid of it.
Early on, because of Avery’s civil suit, Manitowoc investigators were ordered by the state to allow neighboring Calumet County to do the primary investigation into the murder: conflict of interest, due to the wrongful imprisonment civil suit, was recognized from the start. But this was not enforced and Manitowoc sheriffs did not stay away, and the opportunities for evidence-planting were myriad.
The prosecutor and even the judges are seen to proceed with bias, professional self-interest, visible boredom, and lack of curiosity. At one point the special prosecutor is seen in the courtroom staring off into the middle distance, playing with a rubber band.
The story one does see clearly here is really a story of small-town malice. The label “white trash,” not only dehumanizing but classist and racist—the term presumes trash is not ordinarily white—is never heard in this documentary. Perhaps the phrase is too southern in its origins. But it is everywhere implied.
The Averys are referred to repeatedly by others in their community as “those people” and those “kind of people.” “You did not choose your parents,” says an interrogator, trying to ply answers out of sixteen-year-old Brendan, though his parents are irrelevant to the examination and are not being criminally accused of anything.
Yet the entire family is socially accused: outsiders, troublemakers, feisty, and a little dim.
What one hears amid the chorus of accusers is the malice of the village.
Village malice toward its own fringes has been dramatized powerfully in literary and film narrative—from Shirley Jackson’s “The Lottery” to Arthur Miller’s The Crucible to the Michael Haneke film The White Ribbon to Suzanne Collins’s The Hunger Games.
Trimming the raggedy edges is how a village stays a village, how it remains itself. Contemporary shunning and cleansing may take new and different forms but they always retain the same heartlessness, the unacknowledged violence, the vaguely genocidal thinking.
An investigator ostensibly on Brendan’s defense team speaks openly of his distaste for the Avery family tree and says, “Someone said to me we need to end the gene pool here.”
The German word Mitläufer comes to mind: going along to get along, in a manner that does not avoid misdeeds—one of the many banalities of evil.
Certainly one feels that frightened herd mentality among the Manitowoc law enforcement as well as members of the jury, the majority of whom were initially reasonably doubtful but who, swayed by a persuasive minority, soon unified to a unanimous vote of guilty.
Even the jury in Brendan’s trial did not question the nature of the defendant’s several and contradictory confessions, such was their prejudice against the boy.
It may or may not be useful to recall that early German settlers of Wisconsin, escaping the nineteenth-century military autocracy in Europe, once believed that the American Civil War would break up the Union, producing some independent states that could then come under German rule. These ordinary German citizens did not get their own state, of course, and in fact had to share it with Scandinavians, Poles, and even Bulgarian and Cornish miners, but certain stereotypical German burgher traits—from rule-boundedness to tidiness to anti-Semitism—are sometimes said to have persisted in Wisconsin life. (A shocking number of Nazi sympathizers once resided in Milwaukee.) A reputation for niceness may obscure rather than express the midwestern character.
When watching two New Yorkers construct a film about the sketchy Wisconsin legal system one may overreach for cultural memes. (Cogent thesis-making is not this film’s strong point, or its mission, and so a viewer is likely to veer off independently. Thus the Internet and media are full of armchair sleuths and amateur psychologists in the growing discussion of the film.) But conformity and silence on the job are elements in this tale, and they are timely subjects.
Businesswoman and amateur social scientist Margaret Heffernan has recently been publicizing the results of her workplace survey of “willful blindness.” According to Heffernan, 85 percent of people know there is something wrong at work but will not come forward to report or discuss it. When she consulted with Germans they said, “Oh, yes. This is the German disease.” But when she consulted with the Swiss she was told, “This is a uniquely Swiss problem.” In the UK: “The British are really bad at this.” And so on. Willful blindness is everywhere, though touched on only glancingly in the film.
And so it comes as something of a surprise that what the documentary does linger over most single-mindedly—either deliberately or unconsciously—is the theme of mother love (perhaps not unrelated to willful blindness on the job). It is not just Brendan’s mother Barb who is her son’s impressively fierce defender. Barb is described by her son’s lawyer as a bulldog, and clearly the lawyer is afraid of her. In her close protectiveness toward Brendan she quickly understands that he is ill-served by the court-appointed defense.
But the filmmakers’ story is also of Steven Avery’s aging and devoted mother Dolores, who packs up boxes of photocopied letters and transcripts and sends them everywhere—from Sixty Minutes to 20/20—hoping to get some journalists interested in her son’s case.
The effect of the media is a fraught one in this film—local TV news influenced many of the jurors, and the prosecution often used the press to communicate in unethical ways.
Making a Murderer has invited parallels to the podcast Serial, which has recently, and intrusively, played a role in getting a convicted murderer a new hearing, though the evidence in that case was much more substantial: a crime of passion by a jealous and brokenhearted boy.
The Teresa Halbach case is more mystifying.
Meanwhile, short and lame and chewing on her lips, Dolores Avery visits her son in three different prisons in Wisconsin and one in Tennessee. She speaks to him on the phone regularly and optimistically. In her fruit-printed housedresses and floral shirts she faces the camera and conducts calm tirades against the legal system that has taken her son away.
The filmmakers give her more screen time than anyone would ordinarily expect—and she and her husband close the documentary with a sense of domestic resilience.
Their son and grandson are in prison for murder. Their business has gone under. Yet they will continue. Arm in arm! A vegetable garden of kohlrabis! A smile of faith and hope! The film is in the grip of its own sentimental awe. But there are worse things in the world.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/02/25/making-murderer-shame-of-wisconsin/
