Showing posts with label DNA from Teresa. Show all posts
Showing posts with label DNA from Teresa. Show all posts

Sunday, December 8, 2019

Teresa Halbach's "Missing Person Poster" Was Created on 11/2/2005



The footer of the document in the image above, which is from the Youth Educated in Safety (YES) website, most likely was "auto populated" at the time the document was created.

Default YES format:

https://web.archive.org/web/*/yeswi.org/images/LAHNNA01.jpg

https://web.archive.org/web/*/yeswi.org/htdocs/htdocs/andylathrop.pdf

https://web.archive.org/web/*/yeswi.org/htdocs/kellynolan.htm

https://web.archive.org/web/*/yeswi.org/htdocs/documents/amandamaecoon.pdf

Question: Macro to Insert Footer with Date, Filename, Page x of y

In previous versions of Word I always created a simple macro to insert a footing into my documents.

It would add the date, the filename, and "page x of y" as the footing.

Very simple. Very easy to create. Worked without a hitch.

I am now trying to do that with Office 365 and encountering far more problems than seem reasonable.

So before I go any further, I thought I'd post to see if there was an easier way to do this? A template? A different footer style?

Answer:

A macro is usually overkill for this kind of task.

The best way to do it is to create the whole footer in a custom template. Then every document you base on that template will start out with the footer already in place (although the filename field won't automatically update when you save the document, so you'll have to update it manually, most easily by going to the Print screen and back to the document).

Hint: For the date, use a CREATEDATE field instead of a DATE field. In the template it will show the date of the template's creation. In documents based on the template, it will show the date when the document was created -- and, unlike the DATE field, it won't change if the document is later reopened.

[Source]



Teresa Halbach's mother called to report Teresa as "missing" at 2:52 PM on 11/3/05; however, the incident type was listed as "death"  (see image above).

Mike Halbach testified that a man from YES contacted them "the day we reported Teresa missing, that Thursday" (11/3/05):
"Yeah, on the -- Well, the day we reported Teresa missing, that Thursday, we had got a call from a man named Jay Breyer who offered his services at Youth Educated in Safety, which is a missing persons organization. He offered to make copies and make up a missing persons poster. So we took him up on that offer that night, finalized the poster and then the following afternoon we had got copies made."
Mike didn't say, "the day we realized Teresa was missing;" he said, "the day we reported Teresa missing."

Did they know she was dead before they reported her as "missing" at 2:52 PM on 11/3?



Teresa Halbach was supposed to be reported missing on 11/02/2005. For whatever reason, the start was delayed a day. It's not realistic for it to take CASO and MTSO only 5/6 hours to get the missing person segment on the 10 PM news, including her last whereabouts and clothes description (video above).

Missing person poster - just another typo?

by N64_Controller

https://web.archive.org/web/20060511183907/yeswi.org/htdocs/teresahalbach.pdf

This version of the poster was found on the archived site of the YES foundation. The date of 11/2/05 is either a typo or proof that TH's fate was known before 11/3/05.

Please have a look at the date bottom left in the PDF.

11/02/2005?

You can download the PDF and upload it to this site: https://www.get-metadata.com

You can see that the PDF create date is 11/4/2005 at 11:53:32, although the poster was probably first created in MS Word and then converted to pdf.

Just another typo?

Also, on the yeswi.org version of the missing person poster, the "missing" date has all the slashes but "Toyota Rave4" is spelled incorrectly.

On the Halbach computer the poster has a slash missing in the date and "Toyota Rav4" is spelled correctly (2:47 mark in video).

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yMHqDttgdwE

Also, the template has been the same since 2000:

https://web.archive.org/web/*/yeswi.org/images/LAHNNA01.jpg

ABC News 11/28/2005 clip:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/video/archival-video-steven-avery-faces-murder-charges-36097474

Personally haven't seen this one before and thought it would be interesting to share.

A news clip from November that shows the missing person poster without the footer (why would that be?).

Also a very emotional MH (/s) talking about how people should not forget his sister who was 'murdered' mere weeks ago.

P.S. That footer date was also cropped out at Brendan's trial:

http://www.apimages.com/metadata/Index/Missing-Woman/0a311a68dc954727bcfbc94dfca5bb16/43/0

[–]_ScuttleButts

I remember seeing a video clip of Mike Halbach sitting at a computer with a missing poster on the screen, could this be the one? Did they create it a day before they reported her missing to police?

[–]N64_Controller[S]

I linked to that clip:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yMHqDttgdwE

[–]N64_Controller[S]

Fallon and Hillegas about YES and Jay Breyer:

Q. And as far as you know, he has no association with any law enforcement entity whatsoever?

A. I don't believe so, no.

Something to keep in mind here is that Ken Kratz, years before the TH case, was on the board of directors of YES.

https://imgur.com/rmAUXcU

[–]ThackerLaceyDeJaynes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMHqDttgdwE&t=195s

At the 2:48 mark is the poster in question. Wondering if someone with better IT skills than me can screenshot and see if the bottom line says Nov 2nd. Also, in this video is Teresa's day planner on her parent's table. Just wondering if they made a copy?

[–]N64_Controller[S]

This one from SkippyMF also shows something unreadable.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/exhibit-245.jpg

[–]ThackerLaceyDeJaynes

I zoomed in. It says the 2nd. What the heck. So, do I think it's odd they noticed her absence a day prior? Not at all.

I just don't understand why LE said this all began on the 3rd.

[–]N64_Controller[S]

All those buttons:

https://imgur.com/a/ap46phf

KK's connection to YES:

https://imgur.com/rmAUXcU

Jay Breyer calling on the evening on Nov 3. Who informed him?

My belief in a pre-planned frame job.

[–]N64_Controller[S]

What I personally believe and think is painfully obvious is that the Halbach family is part of this frame job. Whether TH is dead or not remains to be seen.. Many scenarios are still plausible, no matter what nay sayers claim to be ridiculous.

[–]thed0ngs0ng

I'm certainly right there with you. I find it amazing that so many can watch and listen to the Halbachs and actually find them sincere.

I love that MaM included the footage of Barb saying, "I think the Halbachs set this whole thing up, I really do."

[–]PetrichorGirl

I think it's possible that both TH was killed and LE/her family lied about when they first knew she was missing. Maybe LE wanted to buy some time by delaying the documentation of the missing person's report (to help LE figure out what to do with this "opportunity"). And they might have fed TH's family all kinds of BS about why this was good for the case, and convinced them to go along with it. Maybe that is why the family acts suspiciously - because they have been told they have be quiet about the exact circumstances of how TH was discovered to be missing.

[–]N64_Controller[S]

Yes, I agree that could be it! One of the plausible scenarios.

[–]skippymofo

Here another picture of the poster. You can find the "sponsored" text but it is too flimsy to read the date:

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/exhibit-245.jpg

The exhibit version does not have the "sponsored" text. It seems they cut off the evidence poster because you cannot see this text.

There is another modification: from the web archive: may have traveled farther.

But on the Exhibit 10 you can read: may have been traveled farther.

Also the "license plate" on the exhibit poster looks like "lacense", but not sure about it.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Exhibit-10-missing-person-poster.jpg

[–]Blondieblueeyes

The fact that Kratz cut off the part that shows the date as 11/2/05 is damning.

He showed the jury an altered exhibit.

Why is this missing poster dated a day before Teresa is reported missing? Thanks to others for spotting this. Was the family creating posters a day prior to Teresa being reported missing?

by _ScuttleButts

[–]7-pairs-of-panties

Well if they knew that she was missing a day earlier then it calls into question why Scott B and Ryan H didn’t learn of it until the 3rd. Scott says that on the 3rd that TH stepdad shows up to his worksite looking for TH. That’s when he was made aware and that he calls Ryan that afternoon. Not too big of a deal until you consider the fact that Acott was her roommate and lived next door to TH parents who would have had to have come over looking for her prior to reporting her missing, yet that’s not how it’s claimed to have happened.

If they knew by 11/2 that she was missing or dead, then it was reported privately to someone like Jerry Pagel, who the family knew, then formally called in the next day as if that was the first report of it.

Why would Karen Halbach not just say, "I realized yesterday she was missing and called the sheriff, who is a friend of the family, and he said we had to wait 24 hours before making a formal report."

[–]seekingtruthforgood

It looks like an auto date entry established in the document, next to the entry of the organization it came from.

[–]Soloandthewookiee

How can you possibly tell the difference between a macro-created date and a manually-created one?

[–]seekingtruthforgood

It's in the footer area of the document where one selects the type of data to add to the photo. "Date" is a common selection, and it's often used by organizations to track the versions of the documents and updates.

[–]Soloandthewookiee

It's also in the footer area where one can manually type in the date. How can you tell the difference?

[–]seekingtruthforgood

You can't but, when a company adds footers to show the company and date, one who creates these types of Word docs realizes that auto date is commonly placed in the left entry.

[–]lickity_snickum

In a normal world, where there aren't several dozen other "coincidences" I honestly wouldn't give this a second thought. Unfortunately, "coincidences" (more than is humanly believable) abound in this case, so who knows WHY the date is a day before Halbach was reported missing.

[–]SpiritWolf395

It goes hand in hand with LE not opening the RAV4 at Avery's. LE knew she was dead!

[–]7-pairs-of-panties

Well, this better explains how they had those buttons already made and printed out to be picked up on the 4th.

Everything started a day earlier.

It also explains how Kratz said that Wiegert came into his office on 11/3 and reported that a missing girl was last seen at Avery’s.

[–]IndependentCourt4

This does not require "dozens and dozens" of LE officials.

The argument that they wouldn't "risk going to prison" is such a poor argument.
  • If that were true, why would anyone commit a crime?
  • It's disproven by the fact that cops do, in fact, commit crimes.
  • Cops lie so often they have a special name for the list of lying cops: Brady list.
  • Cops are punished far less often and with less punishment than other citizens.
You really have no idea how the "thin blue line" works. Watch any situation where a cop goes off the rails and beats a suspect. How often do other cops step in to stop it? Virtually never.

Like anything else, it's a risk/reward tradeoff. They don't think they'll get caught, and if they get caught, they figure they'll get a slap on the wrist.

If that argument were correct, no cop would ever commit a crime and risk his cushy pension.

[–]Blondieblueeyes[S]

The missing poster for Teresa has the date 11/2/05.

She wasn't reported missing until 11/3/05.

It's a typo OR it was created before she was officially missing on the 3rd.

[–]tuckerm33

Look, every report and every piece of documentation has had a “typo” in it of some sort.

I think we are well beyond that element of benefit of the doubt at this point.

When everything is a typo, then nothing is a typo.

What we have is a planned disappearance and a planned framing for murder. The real reason we see date discrepancies is not because they are typos, it is because the plan was executed a day late.

All those reports and documents were created well in advance. Someone fucked up is the real reason why all the dates on the documents are all prior to her being reported missing.

The question is, who was the trigger person that was supposed to start the ball rolling and why did they slip up? Someone unknowingly disrupted their plan and it didn’t get off when it was supposed to with reporting Teresa missing.

LE had to play catch up and rework the reports they had made, but it’s clear now, the reason why reports don’t match is because they forgot to update all of them or couldn’t.

[–]WiskeyMcQueen

> "She was wearing blue jeans, white button-down shirt, and a spring jacket."

What I'm finding perplexing is the description in the poster of what she wearing.... Isn't that the exact description as given by Steven Schmitz, but he wasn't questioned until a later date, if I recall correctly?




[–]N64_Controller

Schmitz was questioned on 11/03; CASO page 6.

The poster contained a description of Teresa's clothes that was provided by Schmitz on 11/03.

How does Steven Schmitz fit the conspiracy if the poster was created on 11/02?

[-]magiclougie

Perhaps the description in the poster of what Teresa was wearing came from Scott Bloedorn, since he saw her at home on 10/31, per Karen Halbach in her 11/3 call to CASO.

Then witness statements from Schmitz and Jo Ellen were falsified to backup what was described in the poster.

Poster: "She was wearing blue jeans, white button-down shirt, and a spring jacket."

Schmitz on 11/3/05, per Wiegert's report: "She was wearing blue jeans, a white button down shirt with a summer jacket, unknown color."

At Avery's trial in 2007, Schmitz testified that Teresa "had blue jeans on, button up white blouse and a spring jacket, waist length. I believe it was blue in color." When asked by Kratz, "How long did you say the jacket was that she had on?," Schmitz replied: "I would say about waist length. It was like a summer jacket."

Jo Ellen Zipperer on 11/6/05, per Dedering's report: "The photographer was dressed in blue jeans with a darker jacket (waist length) and some sort of white top."

Bobby Dassey on 11/5/05, per Dedering's report: She "was wearing a dark colored waist length coat."

Bobby Dassey on 2/27/06, per Dedering's report: She "was wearing black coat, black trousers."





Maybe Teresa never made it to Steven Schmitz's home because he never called her back, which would mean that Schmitz committed perjury at Avery's trial. Steven Schmitz is the brother of Todd Schmitz, who took the blame for Attorney General Peg L when she drove her state-funded car into a ditch while driving drunk. BTW, Schmitz's mother is a Halbach (Steven Schmitz's wife's mother is also a Halbach).

And Dawn Pliszka, potentially an agent or informant for WI-DOJ, scheduled Teresa's appointments. Teresa also may have been an agent or informant: she and Dawn started working for Autotrader around the same time, in October 2004.

[–]Casablank10

Guess who was serving on the board of "Youth Educated in Safety" at the time? You guessed it - good old Ken Kratz (and YES's founder, Jay Breyer, is lacking in morals and ethics as bad as Kratz).



Related:








Steven's mother Dolores has said she believes Teresa Halbach is still alive. Her theory, which she voiced on Boston Radio Programme The Hill-Man Morning Show in January 2016 (video above), aligns itself with the theories that Avery was framed. Speaking about Teresa, Dolores said: "I don't think she's even dead." When the host responded, "Oh, Really?," Dolores said: "I don't think so. There's so many of them [that] say that." When asked if she believed that Teresa had cooperated with police in a conspiracy to set her son up, she replied: "It could be." When asked about the bones found in Avery's yard, Dolores questioned whether they were Teresa's bones at all.

Friday, May 20, 2016

Why Did Fassbender Collect Seven Pairs of Panties from Teresa Halbach's Residence?


How did panties and boots (found in trunk hit on by dogs on Nov 6) end up with envelopes, butts, 7 more pairs of panties (collected 11/14) AND the dispatch call (11/16)?

By seekingtruthforgood, TickTockManitowoc
November 24, 2017
In revisiting an older subject, I was reminded of the below evidence logged at CASO. Maybe someone knows how it was possible that panties and boots recovered from the trunk of a Toyota on November 6 were logged with evidence collected 8-10 days later between November 14-16. Not only were they logged together, per the ledger id's, they were tagged within the same series of evidence numbers... how is that possible?
05-221 - #8736 (Two envelopes and butts) collected 11/14
05-222 - #'s 8737 and 8738 (Panties and boots) collected 11/6
05-220 - #'s 8046-8053 (Panties from TH's home) collected 11/14
05-223 #8739 (Cassette tape of recorded dispatch call, which I believe is the PS call) collected 11/16
Wow, great find!! I don’t know how to explain it either, but sure did seem like they were keeping evidence collected OUT to possibly USE somewhere else vs turning it over. Maybe those purple panties Zellner wants will prove their planting and why she’s asked for them. How many panties are in evidence per their logs. Should match reports of what was collected but I’ll bet you it doesn’t. Remember 7 pairs + the purple panties from the truck. - 7-pairs-of-panties, Reddit, November 24, 2017

Plus this pair... makes 9... it's really weird these panties end up in the middle of Halbach's items which were sent to the lab supposedly to get her DNA. - seekingtruthforgood, Reddit, November 24, 2017
Starting on page 15 of Kathleen Zellner's motion for post-conviction scientific testing, she lists items for "new testing for sources of DNA" and items for "new DNA testing." On page 22, she requests new DNA testing on a pair of women's purple thong panties recovered from the white trailer near the Mercury station wagon where Teresa's license plates were found:
"Item CV - a pair of women's purple thong panties recovered from the white trailer near the Mercury station wagon where the victim's license plates were found. Similar thong panties were recovered from the victim's residence (items CM, CN and CO). Mr. Avery is requesting to perform new and approved DNA testing on these panties to determine if they belonged to the victim and if they contain a male DNA profile."
Per Calumet County Sgt. Bill Tyson, on November 14, 2005, after Steven Avery was charged with Teresa Halbach's murder, he and DCI Special Agent Tom Fassbender went to Teresa's residence and collected seven pairs of her panties in various colors, some clean pairs from her dresser and some dirty pairs from her laundry (page 262 of CASO file). One of the pairs collected from Teresa's dirty clothes hamper was "light colored purple."
On Monday, 11/14/05, I (sgt. BILL TYSON of the CALUMET COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT) met with DCI Special Agent TOM FASSBENDER at the sheriff s department. Inv. FASSBENDER asked me if I would be willing to go with him to TERESA HALBACH's residence to collect some clothing of hers for DNA purposes. Special Agent FASSBENDER stated he did get permission from TERESA's parents to go to the house and look for articles of clothing that would have her DNA on it. I informed Special Agent FASSBENDER I would do so.

Upon our arrival at the residence, RYAN HILLEGAS met us. RYAN stated he was a close friend of TERESA HALBACH and he was temporarily staying at TERESA's residence. Special Agent FASSBENDER informed him we were there to collect articles of clothing that would have traces of DNA on it. RYAN stated we were welcome into the residence and he did show us TERESA's bedroom. Upon entering the bedroom, we were looking for a clothes hamper that would have dirty clothing. RYAN pointed to a plastic bag and said TERESA would sometimes pack up her dirty clothing in the plastic bag and take the dirty laundry over to her mom's residence for cleaning. Upon looking through the plastic bag, we did locate several woman's panties in the bag. Photographs were taken of the clothing. At 1630 hours, I did collect a brown colored pair of woman's panties from the plastic bag. At 1634 hours, I did collect a light blue colored pair of woman's panties, which were located inside the dresser in TERESA's bedroom.

At 1635 hours, I did collect a black and pink striped pair of woman's panties from inside the dresser of TERESA's bedroom. At 1636 hours, I did collect a red and black colored pair of woman's panties from the dresser in TERESA's bedroom. We noticed eyeglasses setting on the nightstand next to the bed and RYAN stated the glasses did belong to TERESA. At 1638 hours, I did collect the glasses. We asked RYAN if there were any other locations in the residence where TERESA would have clothing and he led us to the bathroom. RYAN pointed to a clothes hamper and stated the clothes hamper did belong to TERESA and only her clothes would be in that hamper. RYAN stated the clothes in the hamper were definitely dirty clothing. At 1642 hours, I did collect a pink colored pair of woman's panties from the clothes hamper. At 1643 hours, I did collect a black colored pair of woman's panties from the clothes hamper from the bathroom.

At 1644 hours, I did collect a light colored purple pair of woman's panties from the clothes hamper. These items were separately packaged and photographed prior to collection.

The items collected were transported back to the CALUMET COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT and placed in a secured locker in the evidence room.

Sgt. Bill Tyson Calumet Co. Sheriff s Dept. BT,6dS
Other than planting evidence at Avery's, why would Fassy need so many pairs of Teresa's panties, some clean and some dirty, in various colors?

There are two valid theories presented by missingtrugh and foghaze at Reddit.

[–] missingtruth

In Zellner's motion, Exhibit D is a document that is a report from 11/7 about a bloodhound named Loof who had a very intense track to the Kuss Road cul-de-sac. This is probably the activity we see in the Kuss Road pics.

Now, Loof would be tracking Teresa's unique, individual scent. Bloodhound tracking is reliable enough that it is admissible and has been used in Court. KZ is proving that TH was there. I have a feeling Luminol has been used in these areas and is the crime scene.

She uses exhibit D when referencing that her vehicle was moved from the Radandt Quarry to the Avery Property using the conveyor road. 

There were both types of dogs on the scene (bloodhound and cadaver). The cadaver dogs hit on the RAV. But there were other teams of standard search and rescue dogs as well on November 5th and 6th:
  • Wendy Baldwin, 11/5, after 4pm, page 69 - Great Lakes Search and Rescue dogs
  • Tyson, 11/5, around 5pm, finished at 7pm, page 78 - again Great Lakes, four handlers with four dogs
  • Kucharski, 11/5, time unknown, but afternoon, page 85 - the cadaver dog hits at the conveyor belt at the south of the property and in the weeds at the NORTHWEST CORNER OF THE LOT (toward the deer camp)
  • Dedering, 11/5, afternoon, page 88 - dogs Trace and Brutus, NO hit near the crusher (Brutus is a HUMAN remains/blood dog)
  • Wendy B, 11/6, morning, page 109 - Southwest corner of pond, cadaver dog Brutus hits on a silver station wagon where a bloody rag was found; tan Honda with blood on it (mentions Bowe)
  • Bowe, 11/6, morning, page 110 - Brutus hits on 4-door Toyota (they can't get their car makes right I guess) with women's panties and camouflage boots that are taken into evidence and given to Det. Nicholas
  • Tenor, 11/6, afternoon, page 123 - FIVE search and rescue and cadaver dogs in quarry EAST of Avery Road, Three out of five dogs hit on a pile of pink and red stuff (I'm thinking this Michel's Material quarry, which is NORTHeast of the salvage yard, right next to Avery ROAD)
  • Dedering, 11/6, 5.40pm, page 125 - they take a dog to search an area where a skid-steer had been seen working, but there is no indication of what sort of dog or what the results were.
Loof is/was a bloodhound used for odor specific identifying. Brutus is/was a cadaver dog used for locating human remains, amongst other things. Loof is/was not a cadaver dog.

Cadaver dogs such as Brutus "alert" on the smell of human decompostion, such as skin, blood, etc. However, bloodhounds such as Loof are trained to "alert" on the specific scent of a person they are tracking. Bloodhounds will track long distances. Loof, the bloodhound, intensely tracked Teresa's scent at the Kuss Road Cul-de-sac. That's not indicative of a cadaver dog's hit.

A cadaver dog alerted inside Avery's trailer on November 5th or 6th, meaning it alerted to human decomposition, which includes blood. Avery bled inside his trailer after cutting his finger loading tin onto a flatbed (the exact date when this occurred is unknown, but Avery told a reporter he reopened the cut on November 5th when installing tin in Crivitz). He left his home around 6 a.m. on November 5th for Crivitz and never returned home, so he bled in his trailer and Grand Am prior to November 5th. Fresh blood stains from Avery were found in his Grand Am, which he drove daily to and from the salvage yard office and elsewhere, and which he drove to Crivitz the morning of November 5th. Avery's blood was collected on November 5th or 6th from both of the exterior door frames to his trailer, as well as from the bathroom sink and the bathroom floor.

If a bloodhound alerted to Teresa's scent near Barb Janda's minivan for sale, in Avery's trailer, or in Avery's garage, this was not presented at trial or recorded in a CASO report. The only mention  by CASO of a bloodhound tracking Teresa's scent was a bloodhound named Loof on November 7th (page 138).

JANUARY 2017 UPDATE:

John Ferak wrote on January 15, 2017: "The wooded area, near the Radandt quarry, drew heightened interest from one of the bloodhounds following the scent of Halbach's shoes and also from one of the police cadaver dogs."

Nexious wrote on January 16, 2017 at Reddit: "Ferak advised me that this information about using one of her shoes for a scent comes straight from a State Crime Lab document written by John Ertl. He does have access to documents that we still do not, which is to be expected given his investigative position (SkippTopp was denied the request by DCI and State Crime Lab last May)."

Therefore, the dirty underwear taken from Teresa's home were not used for scent tracking. So why were they taken and what were they used for? DNA planting?






[–]foghaze

Holy cow. It's all making sense to me. I remember reading Brendan Dassey's confession and they kept asking him about panties! Now I get it! They wanted him to say he or Steven Avery kept panties so they could PLANT that too! I was wondering why Liegert and Factbender was pressuring him to say that. Good thing he didn't because I bet Teresa Halbach's panties would have turned up on Avery's property.

[–]Thomjones

Where was her roommate btw?? Ryan Hillegas just chillin and shit. Maybe being a big perv. (Only saying that because a perv like me would think like that). And...so...many panties. I guess what, the toothbrush and her mouth all over that can of cherry coke in her car wasn't enough? I guess the pap smear from her doctor that they actually compared DNA to wasn't compelling enough?

[–]bashdotexe

What I'd like to know is out of all the underwear collected in Tyson's report how many of them are still in evidence?

[–]renaecharles

They took seven, TURNED IN THREE. I read the CASO reports looking for those underpants for a loooong time. He notates collecting seven, but he only turns over three for evidence safekeeping. Four pairs have been MIA since the beginning.

[–] foghaze

Note: This is a repost from the other Sub. I see they are going back and actually deleting many posts so I wanted to get posts I made out so they are not lost forever. Some of these took a lot of time. I cannot believe they are actually deleting our work!

Fassbender and Tyson go to TH to get dirty clothes. RH shows them where to find them. They gather several pairs of Teresa's dirty panties as "Evidence". After I read this I remembered reading Dassey's interrogation and Factbender and Liegert kept asking him about TH panties on numerous occasions. I was wondering why they kept asking him this over and over. There was a certain rhythm to their questioning and I could tell when they were trying to get Brendan to say something that they wanted him to say but the panties never made any sense. At the time I was analyzing his interrogation the CASO report had not been released and I kept thinking something was going on regarding panties. Now I know exactly what they were up to. Take it how you want but seems to me they were trying to get him to say he or Avery had taken TH panties so they could plant them. It seemed pretty obvious to me at least.

They asked him about the panties on 7 different occasions and, within those, most were a couple of times; so, in all, 13 times. After seeing this I don't see how it is possible for people to not see exactly what they were doing.

Here are all the screenshots.

[–]amileah

Reading this I have so many emotions:
  1. Anger - how in the world does RH have ANY authority to welcome officers to search TH & SB's residence? I understand that TH's parents already gave permission, but somehow I envision the officers entry like RH welcoming guests to a dinner party. "Sure officers come on in & feel comfortable looking through Teresa's panty collection. I'll lead the way since I already know where everything is..."
  2. Sympathy (& a little embarrassment for TH) - could you imagine the world being privy to your dirty panty collection? Although the items likely had important biological/DNA evidence, it makes my heart sink a little knowing that TH's "dirty laundry" is being exposed to the world. Literally.
  3. Curiousity - what happened to all of the panties that were collected? Did they perform any DNA tests on the panties to determine any other party's DNA &/or mixed DNA. We know that she was sexually active.
I'll stop there, but for some reason this post really got to me emotionally.

[–]FoxyMcJ
 
What I wonder is why, if they have her hair, her toothbrush and her vibrator do they need to take MULTIPLE pairs of both clean and dirty underwear?

It makes me very emotional and angry as well that it was her Ex-BF that led them all to this, and was staying in her room 'keeping an eye on things'...seriously, though, wtf?

    [–]foghaze  
    What I wonder is why, if they have her hair, her toothbrush and her vibrator do they need to take MULTIPLE pairs of both clean and dirty underwear?
    Because I think they wanted to plant panties. In one of BD's confessions I noticed they kept mentioning panties. From what it seemed like to me they were trying to get Brendan to say he or SA kept a pair as a trophy. A few months back when I was reading the confessions I kept wondering about this. Now it's all making sense. Had poor Brendan said YES to the panty question I'm sure they too would have shown up on Avery's property at some point.

    [–]bythesword86
     
    Wow, this just gave me chills...

    [–]FoxyMcJ
     
    Sadly, I think you are correct.

    [–]Strikeout21
     
    I think you might be right. The only other way taking this many panties would make sense is if they were hoping to catch the DNA of her sexual partners. That doesn't make sense though because they didn't collect DNA from any of them. Ugh, my head hurts.

    [–]renaecharles

    I believe most, if not all, of these reports were written well after the fact. Look at the key report... We did not touch it with dirty hands, clean gloves put on, no one else touched it, blah blah blah three paragraphs later, why so much emphasis on that? Because when the report was written it was already being scrutinized. I think they accidentally wrote the report for putting underwear into evidence in real time, with intent to do as they could with the other 4 pairs. After they couldn't do anything with them, they wrote up a clean little report about the collection. Problem is, seems they forgot to fix the evidence report (or couldn't fix it). The sheer volume says to me it could have simply been overlooked.

    [–]renaecharles
     
    They collected 3 pairs from the dresser, clean ones.

    [–]ForeverRotts
    what happened to all of the panties that were collected?
    I think Fassbender has a thing for dirty panties. They collected a bunch of Jodi's as well. Or maybe Kratz wanted them. LOL

    [–]belee86[S]
     
    They found panties in the yard in the trunk of a car, so I imagine they were going to test to if the panties matched. Also, it might have been before they knew about the PAP smear.

    [–]amileah

    Good points. This was 11/14/05, when did they obtain the PAP smear slide (Item EF)?

    [–]belee86

    Not sure. I checked the trial and CASO and couldn't find a date. Probably after the 14th, though to get the smear sampled against the bones. The 14th seems to soon.

    [–]UncleJihad
     
    Sow how did they identify that the bones were Teresa's before? How did they sign a death certificate?

    [–]sophiegirl14

    Why did her parents let them go in there without them????? No NO No nobody is rifling through my daughter's stuff without me there. Sorry. Why was Ryan there? Guarding the evidence? Really weird. Also in trial testimony he states he is only a friend of Teresa's and doesn't go over there that much but then states he is over there once a week. Is it just me or is that a lot. I think it's a lot for someone you aren't dating. Also in another statement he makes he says he is sometimes spends the night 3 days in a row. This guy really contradicts himself.

    There should have been a big freaking spotlight on RH from the beginning. Maybe there is now.

    [–]Sacredtrust61
     
    Good question about the parents. Not trying to attack them; I just don't understand it.

    [–]sophiegirl14
     
    I am not attacking them either. My response is because I am right now the mom of a 24-year-old daughter. If this had happened to her this is what I would have requested. DNA samples from all friends close to her and bf, ex bf, employer, family member etc.... Even my own.

    I would have demanded alibis from all friends and especially ex's and current partners. I would have demanded to know when RH last saw her and what he was dropping off. Even if I had to find this out myself without the cops being there.

    I would have demanded to know what the marks and scratches were from on RH hands and pinky. If they were from a fight, who was it with; if not a fight, then where did you get them cause it sure does look like they are marks where someone was trying to defend themselves or fighting back.

    I would have taken the reigns for speaking out or had my husband or someone very close to me, brother, sister, pastor, doing this job. Not RH, SB, or MH.

    I would have demanded to have her phone records and find out about that voicemails.

    Nobody would have gotten in her stuff without me there. RH would have not been allowed to be there ever.

    I would have never let RH run the investigation and the search. He would not have been allowed to have access to her computer or be on any part of the Avery property. Just saying. Young people today are really computer savvy and they can manipulate stuff.

    I would have gotten in the car myself and backtracked where she started from and where she was supposedly that day. I would have looked everywhere MYSELF. Ask my husband, he would confirm this.

    I would have created a timeline of where she was the weeks before this happened. Every appointment, every job, every party, every party she was supposed to go to, etc...... Did anyone notice she didn't show up to the Halloween party she was supposed to go to as a cowgirl.

    I would have been a way better investigator than CASO and MTSO. I would have left no stone unturned.

    I can't imagine sitting in trial, especially BD's trial, and none of the evidence matches the crime. I would have been like, what the hell.

    I would have been mad as hell at KK for putting out all that stuff in a press conference. Really????

    I would want the killer to be found for sure but I would want evidence beyond a shadow of a doubt with a story that confirms the evidence, not the BS story KK and team put out.

    I would wonder why MTSO, not being involved in the investigation, had found all the key evidence and why they truly didn't back out of the investigation.

    After all that, if the facts turned out it was SA, fine. If not, I will be still be looking for you. I will not stop till I found out who really did it so justice could be served up on a big fat platter. I don't care if I died in the process, but something is just way off on this whole freaking thing.

    That killer would have rued the day he every messed with my kid.

    [–]CommPilot72
     
    Damn straight... excellent post; I couldn't agree with you more.

    Let's put it this way, the stoic, passive presence of the Halbach family that I witnessed in MaM would have been the exact opposite of what you'd have seen from me were this my daughter. I'm not blaming them for anything nor am I criticizing them. I'm simply saying that my approach in that situation would be far more aggressive and involved.

    And that little RH twerp wouldn't have come within a mile of my daughter's house without my presence, much less directing a police officiated panty raid. That's absolutely unforgivable.

    [–]amileah

    Absolutely! Fantastic description. I would be right there with you like a mamma bear. Especially at the beginning of the missing persons case - I predict that I would do ANYTHING to locate my daughter. Thankfully, I have never been in the same situation that the Halbachs were, but trying to put myself in that position, I will admit that I would likely break laws, potentially ruin evidence, etc. I would be unstoppable. I know it's not the same situation, but I have literally gone a little 'psycho' whenever either of my girls got out of my sight in public. There was a not-so-pretty situation when my 5-year-old daughter convinced a lifeguard to let her go on a lazy river ride at a water park with a family. That 'family' was not our family; they were strangers! I lost my mind, composure, & ability to speak without curse words.

    Again, I have no idea what the Halbach family has endured, but I don't think that I would be sitting around going through scrapbooks while the news was filming me knowing that my daughter was missing. Your questioning of the family's actions is exactly my perception of them during that crucial time period. I really mean no disrespect to TH's family, but their reactions were certainly puzzling to me.

    [–]TotieCapote
     
    ALL OF THIS! Yes. I'd want to be notified and involved on every aspect. Under NO circumstances would the ex-BF (even if I totally adored him) be leading the search.

    This whole entire ordeal is f'd up from the get-go.

    [–]OpenMind4U
     
    This what every parent should, must do!!! Ryan Ferguson's father was/is like you!!! Bravo for your feelings, beliefs and post!!!!

    [–]sophiegirl14
     
    Thank you. I'm just a mom that cares about her daughter. My daughter, husband and family are the most important thing in my life, that's all.

    [–]SilkyBeesKnees

    Exactly this, right??? The behaviour of her parents was peculiar.

    [–]Jmystery1

    Well cops probably convinced them it was Avery so they had nothing to dread.

    [–]maxmozo

    I always found it odd, that on their first visit to TH's, when she was ostensibly just a missing person, they collected items to be used for DNA comparison (toothbrush, hairbrush). They went from missing to dead almost instantly. They have no sense of urgency. It's as if they already knew at that point.

    [–]hos_gotta_eat_too

    not only that..they kept hounding brendan for what color they were.

    they collected a ton of her panties, so once brendan said a color, there ya go...we have pink! we have white! we have green!

    "now brendan...think carefully. where did Steven hide the panties?"

    "in the Suzuki tailpipe"...bam. bullet found, green panties with TH DNA found in the Suzuki tailpipe!"

    [–]spirit_69

    But, even if BD didn't mention the panties, although guided by LE to put in the story, that doesn't mean they couldn't plant any panties? It could easily be planted as long as one of those panties wasn't mentioned in the evidence log and RH kept his mouth shut or even didn't notice how many panties they took. In that case it was not only a bullet or a key at the garage or caravan.....Not all the evidence had to follow BD's fake story.

    [–]foghaze[S]

    Not really, it needed to be corroborated by Brendan in order for it to work. If a suspect denies a valuable piece of evidence it hurts the prosecution not helps it. It would show even more how the confession was false.

    [–]JBamers

    Yes, exactly. This notion that LE could go around planting whatever they wanted is used to prove that they didn't plant anything! I keep hearing people ask why they didn't plant more but they have to remember, the evidence found had to be tied to Avery and Dassey and fit the state's narrative. I have no doubt had Dassey went along with the panty story, Colborn would have shaken some other item until a pair of panties fell out.

    [–]renaecharles

    You should also remember this is well after the crime, in order to make it believable, they would need to corroborate something BD said to be able to say he had prior knowledge. They didn't have to have that, but it would give his obviously bs story a little more credence.

    [–]Mr_Precedent

    Maybe they DID plant panties but Lenk was too busy harvesting other stuff to find them.

    [–]c4virus

    They could've planted them yeah but they needed a connection to prove his involvement. The way an interrogation gains credibility is if the confession has details that only somebody involved would know about. It would've been very difficult to claim evidence-planting if Brendan 'confessed' some detail about her underwear and that detail was true.