Scott and Bobby do not actually alibi each other (self.TickTockManitowoc)
by tick_tock_manitowoc
I know this sounds crazy, because we have heard so much about them waving. But let's look at the facts of the 3 statements before trial for each of them.
Bobby's statements
Bobby interview #1 (Dedering) on 11/5: Bobby says he saw Scott but Dedering needs to ask Scott what time.
Bobby interview #2 (Dedering) on 11/9: Bobby does not mention seeing Scott at all.
Bobby interview #3 (Dedering) on 2/27/06 : Bobby does not mention seeing Scott at all.
Scott's statements
Scott interview #1 (DCI) 11/10/05: Scott mentions seeing Bobby at about 3:10pm (hospital, hunting, hospital).
Scott interview #2 (DCI) 11/29/05: Scott mentioned seeing Bobby but gives no time. Mentioned getting home from work at 3:15 to go hunting, so sometime after that (work, hunting, hospital).
Scott interview #3 (Dedering) 3/30/06: Scott does not mention Bobby or even hunting at all (hospital, pick up Barb, hospital).
What does this mean?
We have 2 different agencies getting statements, but they never corroborated the alibis of them both.
I can tell this because Dedering gets told specifically to ask Scott for the time, and he never does. In fact, he doesn't even seem to notice in his interview with Scott in March that Scott doesn't even mention Bobby at all.
So they in essence never once actually alibi each other.
[–]localtruther
On the stand they did though…..that's what matters.
[–]tick_tock_manitowoc[S]
Right, but during cross, had this been brought up...big game changer.
Will be interesting to see them try to explain this in a re-trial.
[–]Lotion-in-the-Basket
The Local beat me to the comment as I was reviewing the trial transcripts to ensure I wasn't going crazy.
Bobby was called to the stand twice, on separate days, with cross examination starting on the 2nd day of his testimony.
If I read the transcripts correctly, and I admit I did skim through that part, the defense wanted to interview BoD before they cross examined him.
This was allowed and this is why BoD is the only witness that wasn't cross examined immediately after direct examination.
I found it interesting that Bobby didn't use Scott as his alibi under direct and only brought it up during cross by Strang. And as mentioned above, the cross took place the day after the direct examination, after an apparent interview with the defense's investigator.
Now it could be assumed that Bobby was interviewed/coached by the prosecution before or after the interview with the defense's investigator.
Was bringing up Scott as an alibi a product of the defense's interview or the prosecutor's likely interview, or a product of his own reasonings.
Nevertheless, during Scott's direct examination, KK takes the bull by the horns, if you will, and Scott brings up Bobby as an alibi.
This leads me to believe that Bobby inserted Scott as his alibi after the defense interviewed him and then after the likely, but unproven, prosecution's coaching interview.
What does this mean? Perhaps something, perhaps nothing. But one thing is sure: Bobby testified on day 3 with cross on day 4 of the trial, and Scott testified on day 12. IMO that is more than enough time to ensure that Scott using Bobby as an alibi matched Bobby using Scott as an alibi.
And the time between Bobby being on the stand on day 3 and day 4 is enough time for the prosecution to review the statements mentioned in the OP.
Enough time to make sure that Bobby had an answer to Strang's questions in which Bobby would need an alibi (Scott).
Of course, these thoughts are fueled by the assumption that Bobby talked with the prosecution after he talked with the defense investigator.
If that's so, I'm sure he tipped off the prosecution as to the type of questions he was being asked by the defense, and the prosecution helped Bobby with the answers, just in time for cross examination on day 4 of the trial.
Of course, as pointed out in the OP, Bobby and Scott's alibis (each other) were never verified, and they never concretely and consistently used each other as an alibi, and definitely not with a specific time.
Yet at trial they for sure did see each other going 55ish mph in opposite directions along the highway all at or around a specific time. And how do we know the time? Well, because Bobby thinks Scott probably looked at his clock in his car the moment they passed each other.
And they both knew the other was going hunting because Bobby was going east on 147 and maybe Bobby saw Scott's camo.
SMH
[-] magiclougie
The defense team failed to interview Bobby Dassey before Steven Avery's trial began. They waited until after direct examination. This gave the prosecution the opportunity to prepare Bobby's answers to questions they expected Strang to ask the next day, during cross examination.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/9vnt04/scott_and_bobby_do_not_actually_alibi_each_other/
The Zipperer voicemail ended up as the Janda voicemail ! (self.TickTockManitowoc)
by SpiritWolf395
In one of Blaine's first statements, he describes the voicemail left on Barb's phone from Teresa. Teresa says she will be there between 1 and 2, just giving you a heads up, if there are any problems give a call back, and leaves a number.
Nowhere in Blaine's statement does it say anything about not being able to find the Janda residence, and this is also backed up by the fact that Teresa has been to the Janda's numerous times to photograph vehicles for Tom and Barb.
The Janda voicemail in evidence has Teresa not being able to find a property, which she has been to numerous times, proving that it is not the Janda voicemail, but the Zipperer voicemail, proven by Joellen's first statement to Detective Jacobs.
The voicemail that is actually missing is the Janda voicemail, which probably reveals some of the details of what actually happened to Teresa Halbach.
There is reason these voicemails were switched, and Barb's is missing. It's all about the little details. There is no way Teresa didn't know the Jandas, period.
Did Bobby pick up during Teresa's call? He was the only one home.
[-] magiclougie
Bobby may not have been the only one home.
Steven Avery said in his most recent affidavit that when he went outside to get papers from his Grand AM, he saw Scott Tadych's green Ford Ranger parked behind Bobby Dassey's Blazer.
This was about 12:10 PM on 10/31. Teresa called about 25 minutes earlier, at 11:43 AM.
So Scott could have been there, inside Barb's home, when Teresa called.
Steven said Scott's truck was gone about 15 minutes after he first noticed it at 12:10 PM.
On November 6, 2005, Marinette County deputy O’Neill returned to question Avery in Crivitz. O'Neill was joined by Special Agent Skorlinski from the Wisconsin Department of Justice, Division of Criminal Investigation (DCI). As far as I know this was the DOJ's first interview of Avery regarding Teresa's disappearance. O'Neill is first up, and asks plenty of questions that are remarkably similar to the ones he asked a day earlier. Eventually we come to the moment where Avery is asked to clarify when Bobby left the property. Exhibit 17 of Zellner's July 6, 2018, Motion to Supplement. Exhibit 17 is a transcription of the November 6, 2005 interview between Avery, O'Neill and Skorlinski. Skorlinski asked Avery if Bobby spoke with Teresa over the phone on Oct 31, 2005. Specifically, Skorlinski asked Avery: “Teresa never said, ‘Oh by the way I just called and talked to your nephew,’ or anything like that?”
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Motion-to-Supplement-Previously-Filed-Motion-for-Post-Conviction-Relief.pdf#page=31
[–]magilla39
Scott and Bobby arranged the false alibi to give Scott cover, not Bobby.
In fact, Blaine and Brendan provide Bobby an alibi up until the time he leaves for his graveyard shift that night. Perhaps Bobby didn't go to work, and met up with Scott, but Blaine's statement tends to incriminate Scott, who later sought an alibi from Bobby.
In addition, it seems unlikely that Bobby would assault Teresa, or even witness her assault, and then go home and go to sleep. Bobby would be hyped up by the crime, and unlikely to be able to fall asleep.
This would tend to suggest that Scott acted, and Scott acted without Bobby.
Further, it suggests that Scott had not spoken with Bobby about the false alibi until later on the timeline.
If Blaine's early recollection was correct, then Scott arranged for a false alibi with Bobby.
Also, his alibi for the rest of the night comes from Barb. Could that be a second false alibi?
Arranging for a false alibi is highly inculpatory.
We know Barb tried to conceal the computer porn. What else is she concealing? Did she give Scott Tadych a false alibi, too?
My spidey-sense has been going off recently, and it seems centered on Scott.
11/05/05 interview:
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Steven-Avery-Interview-Report-2005Nov05.pdf#page=4
Steven went on to explain further in more detail, saying that when Teresa got inside the driver's side (seated in driver's seat) to get the Auto Trader magazine for him he had been holding onto the driver's side door (outside, top or side) up until she handed him the magazine, and he had then left and returned back to his trailer home, dropping off the book, then going over to his sister's home to see if Bobby was home but finding that Bobby was already gone.
Steven says Bobby's Blazer is parked next to Barb's garage while Teresa is there taking the photos and talking to Steven. Teresa then leaves and Steven goes back inside his trailer just long enough to put the Autotrader magazine down, then he goes back outside to find Bobby and chat with him. But Bobby's Blazer is now gone.
Here's the transcript from the 11/06/05, specifically pages 46-48:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/b79exnahkck553j/%5B2005%2011%2006%5D%20-%20Steven%20Avery%20Police%20Interview.pdf?dl=0
So all Steven Avery sees is that Bobby Dassey's black Blazer is gone.
Did they switch cars, with Bobby leaving first, around 12:30 PM, in Scott's truck because it was blocking his Blazer? Did Scott stay behind at Barb's house, and did he leave in Bobby's Blazer, just before or after Teresa left around 2:35 PM?
Did anyone search Bobby's Blazer?
I think the voicemail ties the killer to Teresa's disappearance. The killer answered the phone as Teresa was leaving her message, and this is when the killer sets up a hustle shot with Teresa on Kuss Road. The answering machine recorded this conversation. This is the reason why the recordings were switched and the Zipperer voicemail is missing.
[–]tick_tock_manitowoc
Check the audio, notice the volume doesn't increase as the camera moves closer to the speaker.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xgf_3Cmf-O4
[–]bigmouthlurker
It all goes back to what is fact and what is fabrication. It's a video with audio, but no proof the audio matches the video. These investigators were diabolical.
[–]larrytheloader123
Am I seeing this video correctly and that it goes from message 9 to 6 in a millisecond? Video edit, again? Ugh! Seriously?
[–]Nexious
That's always been intriguing to me. There is no variance at all in the audio level throughout the recording.
https://i.imgur.com/IpSjPM6.jpg
The only technical explanation is if the audio had been digitally hard-limited and normalized. Would be nice to know if the original CD copy is this way or if it was altered before uploading to YouTube.
For what it's worth I remember Barb being asked about it and she said that was her answering machine but the call played back didn't sound familiar.
The fact that the state apparently didn't seize the answering machine containing one of Teresa's last audio recordings (for preservation and further analysis) and instead relied entirely on a random video recording of it being played back - and then "lost" the supposed Zipperer call--Teresa's true final voice recording--is disturbing.
[-] Kirilkk
Just noticed in the end you can hear another phone ringing? Almost like an office phone going off and then they cut the video quick. Unless that's someone's mobile in the background.
[-] Coriolan
That’s what I have been thinking and posted this yesterday. I think the switch was because Bobby [or Scott] picked up the call mid voicemail and therefore the conversation was recorded. Maybe he set up a hustle shot off the ASY. But for some reason, that recorded conversation had to be replaced and that’s my theory on why.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/9rvklm/the_zipperers_voicemail_ended_up_as_the_janda/
[-] Kayki7
The evidence looks pretty bleak for Scott. My only question that I can’t seem to stop asking, is why? What motive would ST have? To just randomly murder someone?
Unless, and this is something that JUST dawned on me tonight, unless TH had a secret relationship with ST..... and nobody knew about it. Maybe she broke things off.. maybe he didn’t like that? I have no idea. But something would have had to happen for ST to decide to kill TH. (If he did it) does anyone know of ST frequented bars?
[–]thed0ngs0ng
Some shady relationships and financials that have been revealed could be the motive for ST's alleged involvement.
Scott and Bobby Switching trucks (self.TickTockManitowoc)
by Twstdtrth
Ok, so it seems that Bobby and Scott may have switched trucks for some reason. Maybe Bobby forgot his phone in his black truck with Scott. It could be where the pings came from. But why did they switch trucks.
[-] struoc1
Why did they both miss work on that specific day?
[–]JLWhitaker
Bobby didn't. He worked night shift.
[-] Danny1878
But he was 2 hours late.
[–]JLWhitaker
That's questionable. There is no documentation that shows this is true. It is conjecture on KZ's part, possibly based on a LE report that says he left for work at 2330 when other reports say 2130.
[–]7-pairs-of-panties
If Scott and Bobby switched tricks it still doesn’t help their case much.
If Scott was driving Bobby’s Blazer that day than....
1) Scott wouldn’t have been at the hospital that afternoon because Bobby’s Blazer was sitting out front, and Scott’s truck was there for some of the time.
2) If Scott was driving the Blazer than it was HIM that drive out of the ASY right after TH.
3) If Bobby was driving Scott’s truck it wasn’t there when TH showed up on the lot. That would mean that ALL of Bobby’s testimony was false.
4) None of the Dassey boys owned a green ranger at the time the crime occurred. The ONLY person on the lot that owned a green Ford Ranger was Scott.
For some reason Barb thinks she will make things better by telling more lies on top of all the lies she’s already told all WITHOUT reading any of the PCR motions or exhibits so she can understand whats all being accused.
[-] magiclougie
On 11/7/05, Blaine Dassey told DCI agents that Bobby Dassey drives a black Chevrolet Blazer (primary), dark blue Caprice Classic, and a red Eagle Talon (non-operable).
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Trial-Exhibit-355-Blaine-Dassey-11-7-2005-Interview.pdf
[–]subzero0000
What seems more interesting to me is that I find the propane truck driver to be a fairly reliable witness. He stated that he spotted a blue/green car leaving the salvage yard at around 3:30pm. If TH left (as per SA's statement at around 2:30pm), then this clearly wasn't TH leaving at that point. If Barb is now saying that Bobby swapped cars with Steven, then this is potentially Bobby leaving the salvage yard at this point.
Steven states that Bobby left not long after Teresa left (in a Blazer?), so is it possible that Bobby followed Teresa out, killed her, and then came back in on foot through Kuss Road, up through the quarry, and back to his house to take Scott Tadych's truck out to clean up?
[-] magiclougie
And Blaine's recent affidavit and clarification on youtube puts Bobby driving a Ford Ranger, heading east on Highway 147, at about 3:30 PM (Blaine was on the school bus, heading west toward Avery Road).
Maybe Bobby was driving back from hunting somewhere near Maribel and drove Scott's truck westward on Highway 147 to Mike O's home on Nuclear Road in Kewaunee, arriving around 4 PM to hunt some more on Mike's property. Then after killing a deer, he drove back home to hang it, arriving home shortly before 5 PM.
If Bobby switched vehicles with Scott, and Steven said Scott's truck was gone by 12:30 PM, then Bobby left in Scott's truck around 12:30 PM.
This would mean that Scott Tadych was using the computer in the Dassey home from 1-2 PM on 10/31, and Scott was the one who left in Bobby's Blazer right before or after Teresa, around 2:35 PM.
And maybe Bobby saw Teresa leave because, as he was driving Scott's truck back home after hunting, he saw her travelling on Highway 147. This also would mean Bobby saw Scott in the Blazer, following Teresa, or Teresa following Scott.
On 10/31/2005, the Dassey computer was used to access the internet at 6:05 AM, 6:28 AM, 6:31 AM, 7:00 AM, 9:33 AM, 10:09 AM, 1:08 PM, and 1:51 PM (source).
[–]subzero0000
Bobby stated that he left in his Blazer to go hunting (I grabbed my bow, got into my Blazer, and left). This now contradicts Barb's statement that Bobby swapped cars with Scott Tadych.
[–]Courtauld
When did BT spin this whopper? I read she claimed Bobby had a green Ranger instead of the extremely well-documented black Blazer.
Now is she saying they "switched vehicles"? Unbelievable. And when and why would they do that since they "only passed each other and waved"?
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/8xswtx/scott_and_bobby_switching_trucks/
[–]PubTender
"Rumor" has it that ST's brother has said that ST lied and was not at the hospital during the day with their mother. ST's brother made the comment about it on fb and soon after deleted it.
The trailer Scott lived in was allegedly removed Spring of '06.
[–]that_1_friend
Scott and Bobby were never each other's alibis! (self.TickTockManitowoc)
by tick_tock_manitowoc
They don't have one for 10/31.
I will explain as I just did on Twitter.
Bobby Dassey was interviewed on 11/05/05, 11/09/05, 2/27/06 and 11/17/17. Every single interview was Dedering.
In his first interview he is asked if he saw anyone driving, and he mentioned he saw Scott, and that Scott would know what time. The next two interviews, Dedering does not mention Scott or if he saw anyone.
In 2017, he tells Dedering he saw Scott at 3pm. This is odd because..
On 11/10/05, 11/30/05, 3/30/06 and 11/10/17 Scott Tadych was interviewed. His first interview, his drive from Aurora Bay was an hour, from 2:15 to 3:15pm.
Scott's first two interviews were by DCI agents, who never spoke to Bobby at all.
His 11/29/05 interview, there was no drive to worry about. He was at work, came straight home, and went hunting. Saw Bobby..weird, even though he arrived home at 3:15pm, he waved at Bobby on his way to going hunting..at 3:10pm, but okay.
His 3/30/06 interview was by Dedering. And in this statement, he was at the hospital all day, returning around dusk or a little after. No mention of hunting. No mention of Bobby.
His 11/10/17 interview, he mentions seeing Bobby, but still never mentioned a time.
Now this is the same investigator, Dedering, that Bobby told him, "You have to get the time from Scott." So Dedering KNEW Scott was reported to have seen Bobby but didn't ask anything at all about seeing him.
So you see, the DCI agents did not confirm Scott's alibi, and Dedering did not confirm Bobby's.
They both had no alibi for 10/31/05.
[–]thesocraticproblem
Okay let's try this:
TH leaves the Avery property and is killed by "X" near Kuss Road.
The body is cremated in the Deer Camp burn barrel near Kuss Road.
The remains are transported to the quarry.
The car is ditched near Scott's trailer (where Bobby supposedly was going hunting. This is also close to the Deer Camp).
Sneaky Colborn receives a tip about where the car is ditched.
Colborn calls it in and screws up by giving away the fact that he is currently looking at the car.
Colborn (and possibly others affected by the Avery lawsuit) orchestrate moving the car onto Avery property (with the help of Hillegas).
Now shit gets weird. After the car is found, they bring in dogs to search. The results of this search creates problems for both the killer and the police; The dogs find bones in the quarry, which contradicts the early reports of a fire outside Steve's trailer being used to cremate the body.
https://i.redd.it/iuj1h5eqelv11.jpg
The remains of Teresa are dumped in the county pit by the murderer. When whomever decided to move the bones did so, they did not manage to move/find them all. As far as we know, we are still missing ribs, which should be found in a reasonable amount. Maybe still buried in the county pit? Maybe completely removed later in order to insure not being found?
I think the MAM2 insinuated the body remains, ribs and vertebrae don't burn well, so amateur murders take this and bury it somewhere else to dispose of it.
The whole connection to cutting up deer seems solid. In the mutilation part confused me for years on this case. It was too bizarre, but now the simple deer and hunting tools make such solid sense.
I grew up with that around and friends and family hunting, but never connected it like KZ did in MAM2. Jaw dropping moment when the "shoe fits," the puzzle piece fits perfectly.
The Deer Hunters would have all the tools and stomach for it probably, especially whoever enjoyed viewing chopped up dead women pictures.
[–]bonnieandy2
Good observation! Dedering knows what to ask and what not to ask.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/9q3585/scott_and_bobby_were_never_each_others_alibis/
[-] bennybaku
Sometimes I go over the statements, and I was looking over Earl Avery's and found this weird event in the written report:
SA and EA have a history. EA when he was 16 had sex with his wife when he was in prison for the false conviction. EA has stated SA gave him the permission to do so. But there are police records where SA was very angry about that. I don't know, but in my opinion I don't think SA ever suggested EA have sex with his wife for at least a year.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/5yw6mg/seriously_ea_breaking_down_in_tears/
[–]trial-in-my-backyard
One of my direct employees is /was related at one point in time to someone who is connected to Earl in this case. I'm not going to say names or initials, but think rabbits [CASO pages 74-75, 208-210, 236-238, 310-311, 319-320]. This person also has a family member that was/is close with BD. From everything I know from random conversations about this topic, "rabbits" was absolutely there with Earl the day this supposedly went down, and "rabbits" heard or saw nothing out of the ordinary. And this statement was said with passion. It was also said that this was the same day, because this person took said family member trick or treating in Two Rivers that night, which was October 31st that year. I'm terrible with dates and don't know this to be fact, but that is what was said.
I don't intend to be mean, but from what I know of the Avery Family, and what this person has said, the family is a little bit beyond "different". Which, I think has sort of been proven by some recorded phone messages that just came out lately.
This person, myself and many other certainly believe that SA was/is capable of doing something like this, but it definitely did not happen the way it has been portrayed, that is for sure. Whether he was part of it or not, I have no idea. But, I am 100% on board with BD not being a part of this at all. I know someone that attended school with him, and there is no way in hell that he would be intuitive enough to be part of such an elaborate cover up. Absolutely no way.
The only thing that makes me believe that SA could have been a part of this are comments that BD was saying about his "uncle" right after this happened. From what I have been told, it was nothing super specific, but the statements were bad enough that he was told he needed to leave and not come back from the place he was at.
My understanding is that BD was making these comments just after SA's arrest, and before BD's interrogations. Once again, the statements were pretty vague, but made things uncomfortable enough that contact was broken off between BD and "his friend" by someone else in the family.
There is a massive, massive conflict of interest concern in this case which has gone largely ignored/unknown. It involves Colborn. (self.MakingaMurderer)
by Classic_Griswald
Some of you are aware of Colborn's relationship with Earl. It's been stated in a few places there was a friendship there at one time. Earl, I think in a news interview, confirms this (but mentions it's due more to his wife, Candy. Unaware where the wife part comes in from though, the news video is link below.)
I assumed originally, that Earl's wife was probably friends with Colborn's wife. It's also possible Colborn was friends more so with Earl's wife (Candy), though I don't know if we can confirm that entirely. We know there's a friendship between them in some respect though.
Keep it in mind.
Regardless, at the very least, Colborn and Candy are friends either directly or indirectly through the friendship to Earl.
Steven's relationship with Marie Avery (Candy's daughter and Earl's stepdaughter). However you want to frame the stuff going on between Steven and Marie, that's up to you. Wendy Baldwin, (the one who likes making jokes about framing Avery in evidence videos) investigated the case that never happened [before the murder case], and it's her reports/interviews with MA that are in the CASO report.
A thread on Baldwin chasing down MA to try and document the relationship between her and Steven.
What might not be known by some is that MA is Candy's daughter.
There is no blood relation to Steve. It was Candy's daughter from another marriage or from wherever.
A thread on how Candy disliked Steven.
To support that the relationship between Colborn and Earl and his wife was also Candy and Colborn, Candy is quoted in a news article:
"I know Colborn very well. I highly doubt Colborn planted anything."
CONFLICT OF INTEREST
If Candy and Colborn are friends, and Candy hates Avery because of his relationship with her daughter... That is enough where an individual officer like Colborn should be pulling himself away from the case.
It's also not established if he had stopped talking to Earl, but I think we can assume as much. Especially since Earl had criminal charges against him for videotaping the kids during a session while they were swimming.
It's quite possible not only Colborn is no longer friends with Earl, but that he is still friends with Candy, or at least has feelings for her - compassion, whatever. Which might include feelings of disgust regarding Steven & Earl.
It raises some serious questions about Colborn's need to inject himself into this case from the very early onset.
It also raises questions about Kayla's interaction with police and Earl's inconsistent statements, and Fabian seemingly trying to incriminate Steven.
The whole thing is a mess. And I thought it was pretty odd such a large part of the investigation was dedicated to a past incident which was not even prosecuted, which does not even have any relation to Teresa's disappearance.
I'm not trying to make excuses for Avery. Up to you to frame him (no pun intended) how you want to after reading Baldwin's reports. I think it's obvious why they are such a big part of the investigation, and why the guilty-obsessed are also obsessed on the reports. The more you demonize Avery the harder it is for people to defend him, or even defend law & order in general. Attack the messenger and you kill the message.
The problem is we should not be happy with this. If he's guilty of murder I want to see a case reflect that, showing evidence he committed the murder. Not that he's a guy people are hoping is guilty.
The conflict of interest issue this raises with Colborn cannot be simply ignored or discounted. Especially when Colborn was present during the key find, and injected himself into the case essentially before it even began. At the very least it ensures extreme bias, at worst its possible it influenced his actions. The extent of which we do not know.
Newscast program with an interview of Earl. It's established around ~13:50 that he was friends with Colborn.
"What bugs me the most, is that Colborn used to be my buddy and I don't understand how he could do such a thing." - Earl Avery
Colborn alluding to the relationship between him and Earl/Candy:
Q. Tell the jury how you are familiar with that business.
A. I have been, personally, a customer of the Avery Auto Salvage business; as well as, I have had contacts there through with law enforcement. And I have children that are the same age as some of the owners of Avery Auto Salvage, so I had contact with them through the course of school events.
Page 69
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/4eywtx/there_is_a_massive_massive_conflict_of_interest/
Sheriff Pagel's Surprisingly Accurate Prediction (self.TickTockManitowoc)
by needless_things
Sheriff Pagel's Surprisingly Accurate Prediction.
Instructions from Sheriff Pagel concerning Avery were sent out to staff on January 31, 2006.
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Sheriff-Instructions-to-Jail-Staff.pdf
"In reviewing phone conversations, it appears that Steven Avery is becoming more anxious and desperate with not having been released on bail. Additional charges may be filed in the next several weeks which could add to his stress level."
How would Pagel have known, at this point in January 2006, that additional charges may be filed?
January 31, 2006 was long before LE began focusing on Brendan Dassey.
November 5, 2005
RAV4 located on ASY.
November 6, 2005
Brendan is interviewed concerning Teresa's disappearance.
November 10, 2005
Brendan is interviewed concerning Teresa's presumed death.
January 2006
Earl and Candy's daughter Kayla speaks with a school counselor about things she had been hearing at home. Her statements were not made in front of LE and she never mentioned BD's name. LE was not contacted.
February 22, 2006
Kayla is interviewed by Wiegert and Fassbender. After the interview they decide to go and speak with Brendan.
Recall:
It was on January 31, 2006 that Pagel announced to his staff via written directive that additional charges may be filed against Avery that would add to his stress level.
It was on February 22, 2006 that Wiegert and Fassbender said they decided it would be prudent to speak with Brendan again.
February 27, 2006
Brendan is interviewed 3 times.
Steven is ordered into Administrative Segregation.
"Per 700, after conversation with 801 and 815, we were instructed to place the above subject [Avery] on administrative seg. Avery has been placed in I-003 until 700 can speak with him."
Obviously, this is no coincidence. The 27th of February was the first contact LE had with Brendan since November 10, 2005.
Brendan Dassey: A Recent Development
And then, on March 1st at 3:24 PM, one day before Brendan will be charged and taken into custody, this...
"Due to recent development in the Avery case we ask that correctional Staff check inmate Avery at a min ever 1/2 hour until further notice. The telephone will also remain off until further notice."
Getting Ugly
Suddenly, later that day, the 'confession' is pretty much in the bag and it is no longer deemed necessary to have personnel babysit Avery, he is released from administrative seg and finally allowed to speak to his lawyer.
March 1, 2006, at 8:32 PM - Avery Jail Log
"Above (Avery) did state to me that 'I guess they arrested my nephew.' He also stated, 'My lawyer said it's getting pretty ugly now'."
[–]JJacks61
Pagel is quite amazing. Not only did he correctly predict more charges, he was able to stay off the radar just enough to avoid to much scrutiny.
The memo is pretty damning though. Makes me want to know the "work product" discussions they were having. It had to be in a folder named "Killing SA's Alibi".
Another thing that is quite shocking to me is how Pagel was allowed to mingle with the jury during their deliberations. I just don't think this happens very often. To me it amounts to jury tampering or intimidation.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/5h40js/sheriff_pagels_surprisingly_accurate_prediction/
Timing of Statements, [Speculations] surrounding BJT and others. Yes, more questions. (self.TickTockManitowoc)
by JJacks61
I was looking up statements by Scott Tadych and comparing them. In total he made four.
November 10th 2005 DCI Statement.
November 29th 2005 DCI Statement.
March 30th 2006 CASO Statement. FIVE Months after the fact, right?
February 27th 2007 Day 12 Avery trial testimony.
It could be argued that none of the statements really matter, only the testimony. I'd have to strongly disagree with that, because these statements gave information during an investigation.
And his story grew and vastly changed, always towards incriminating Avery.
The oh so glib double alibi that removes Bobby and Scott from the ASY during Kratz's critical and insane time frame. Bobby is SURE Scott will know what time it was when they saw each other going to these different places to hunt.
(If the hunting is good behind Scott's place, why doesn't he hunt there as well?)
Let's also not forget the multiple contacts Scott had with MoK, one of them O'Kelly apparently made a trip specifically to Manitowoc to talk to Scott.
April 25th 2006 - MoK STATEMENT of services, page 3. Seems rather odd, making this drive to talk to a boyfriend. And just a few days after Bobby's hdd had been seized. Interesting. There were also multiple phone calls.
Tom Janda moved out in Oct 2005. What I'd like to know is when did Barb and Scott start dating? His heavy involvement seems to begin as soon as Tom moved out, right? I mean, was he a NEW boyfriend, because that's not what I'm seeing here. How long had this affair been going on? Yea, it really does matter. Timing.
I've skimmed through the details of each of the statements because most everyone has read them. And this is only part of the reason I'm posting this. WHO gave statements and WHEN they were taken has some bearing as well.
Also, keep in mind, the DCI was running their own semi-shadow investigation. I don't say that as in some nefarious thing, it's only because most of their work remains unknown to us. Yet, there were dozens of DCI Agents involved in these cases. Is it me, or is it weird as fuck these reports weren't part of the trial?
I've tried to find the date Barb gave her statement to the DCI. I was told (through PM) that her statement is 13 pages. I have no idea if this is true. I believe it's a foregone conclusion she did give at least ONE statement to them, but I'd like to know: who the agent was, what was the date, and the details. Timing and DETAILS matter.
Barb Janda / Barb Avery is mentioned at least 275 times in the CASO report, yet AFAIK, she only gave ONE OFFICIAL interview, plus being served with a search warrant for biological and fingerprint evidence.
November 9th 2005 (Search Warrent contact). "Please note that Barb did speak to S/A KAPITANY on the way to Aurora Medical Center."
We DO NOT have that report AFAIK. This event gives no indication of what Barb said to KAPITANY. Interestingly, once they all got to the medical center, it was discovered the warrant was invalid because the last name said Avery, NOT Janda. She agreed to let them proceed.
November 14th 2005 is the only OFFICIAL interview available to us from Wendy Baldwin FFS (who didn't testify at either trial).
BUT, let's not forget other events that helped steer the course of this saga.
FOX HILLS. The events that culminated in several LEO's, but mainly Mark Wiegert and Tom Fassbender whisking Barb, Brendan and later Blaine of for a fun night of un-recorded questioning.
Look at ALL of the legal events that occurred during February 2006 listed HERE, and this only covers the big things. TIMING MATTERS.
IDK how many other people were interviewed before Barb was, it appears to be many... need those DCI reports, seriously.
It's gone now from the public records search of WI Court records, but Barb entered into a "Deferred Agreement" on February 8th 2006. This lasted for ONE year. I have a screen shot, but since it's been publicly removed. I'm NOT going to post it. (This removal happened AFTER the Barb/Avery/Tadych phone call.)
But, what we don't know is the details of this agreement, and it damn well MAY matter. Especially if this was used as a pressure point against her.
Back to FOX HILLS. After TWO prior interviews on February 27th , it was decided that there was a safety issue for the Dasseys, so they were taken to a hotel. Surrounding the many issues over this is that it wasn't recorded. Look at the multiple witnesses interviewed in the CASO Report, and you will quickly see many were memorialized. But NOT this one? I find this absolutely ridiculous.
February 27th 2005 - 12:30 pm Brendan is interviewed at Mishcot High School. Interview is recorded.
February 27th 2005 - 3:21 pm Brendan is interviewed at Two Rivers Police Department. Interview is recorded.
At some point, it was decided to move these interrogations to a hotel. And NOT record anything. It's been said that Wiegert and Fassbender reported that their recording equipment failed, but I cannot find that report anywhere. I find that not recording these interrogations, and the reason for taking them to a fucking hotel, HIGHLY suspicious.
I also find it odd as hell Barb only gave ONE interview that has been made public.
Scott Tadych gave three AND was one of the star witnesses for the State. Fallon mentioned Scott many times in Brendan's trial, but he was NEVER called as a witness. Did Fallon feel like Scott had done enough damage in Avery's trial? Probably.
Let's change gears, just for a moment.
By May 11th 2006, Fassbender and the gang were well aware of Bobby's hdd contents. So, was Kachinsky also given this information? Idk, but he damn well should have been told. In any event, when Kachinsky sent his attack dog in on Brendan it was to force him into a Plea Deal he clearly didn't want. This allowed them to arrange for Brendan to give another Lawyerless interview the following day.
One of our best contributors (think about M&M's) wrote a topic several months ago asking a simple question - WHY didn't Wiegert and Fassbender ask Brendan about the Salacious Porn on Bobby's PC? Weren't they the least bit curious of what Brendan knew about it? Were they afraid Brendan would tell them just how god damn weird Bobby was? I don't know, but it's clear they stayed WAY the fuck away from it. Ok, back to Barb.
October 24th 2017 Avery called Barb. Scott Tadych was present as well. Avery called her to discuss Brad's recent affidavit. This call was VERY TELLING. It also reinforced just how volatile Scott really is.
SA: Why is all this shit on the computer?
BJT: There was nothing on my fucking computer. All this - I didn't even have Internet back then.
SA: Yes you did.
BJT: No I didn't.
SA: What do you mean you didn't?
BJT: No, I didn't have Internet.
SA: You did.
BJT: No I didn't.
SA: At that time you did. Before that you did.
BJT: No I didn't.
SA: You didn't? -- Well, it's on the computer.
BJT: I did not have Internet.
SA: Well
BJT: Well nothing. I didn't.
As we all know, this is absolute garbage. Barb did have internet, and it was used, A LOT. But here she is trying to deny it, repeatedly. The question is, why? We know part of the answer, but not all of it.
Moving on to page 7, KZ begins talking about a trip to see Brendan at the Sheboygan Jail that Barb and Brad Dassey took. Barb told Brad that she had hired someone to "reformat" her home computer and wanted to know if reformatting would remove what was on it. She said she had done this RIGHT BEFORE LE seized the hard drive. OH REALLY?
Was she told that LE would be coming? Sure sounds that way to me. WHO would have told her? Of course we know whoever performed this reformatting failed miserably.
TIMING of events. There was so much shit happening in Avery's and then Dassey's cases Feb 2006 - June 2006.
Within two weeks of Avery's settlement, Brendan is arrested. ANYONE that believes that Brendan wasn't a PAWN for Kratz isn't paying full attention.
[MY SPECULATION] Barb and Scott KNOW far more than they've publicly admitted, I'm convinced of it. Too much happened that's been buried or simply unsaid. But pieces of truth are seeping through.
I know Scott Tadych was in a rage. I can't copy and paste from the pdf, had to snip it.
Timing of all these seemingly unrelated events have a connection. You don't see it in the series either.
Read the changes in Scott's early DCI Statements and compare them to later statements, compared to his court testimony.
WHEN did Barb give her FIRST statement to the DCI, and WHAT did she say? This matters (to me).
What ALL happened during the months of February - early June 2006?
Avery settles the civil suit. Hires Strang.
Something got said at Brendan's school 3.5 MONTHS after this events.
Wiegert and Fassbender go in for the kill on Brendan. They are relentless.
Brendan is arrested and Kratz fashions a scene of kidnapping, raping, mutilation, body burning a day later.
Bobby Dassey's hard drive is seized, revealing real depravity. NOTHING is done with it.
I didn't snip it, but Barb also talked about (in the phone call) Wiegert's personal involvement in getting her to move from the ASY. Aside from him being a LEO, is it me, or does it feel like he's afraid Barb will say something she shouldn't to Mom/Dad? WHY would he care where Barb lives? Seriously?
Barb's FB post from the Amended Motion. She clearly says Bobby didn't see Teresa walk towards Steven's trailer. This was October 30th 2017.
The Dassey PC Search warrant File. I believe I may have found out who warned Barb LE might be curious about the PC. Candy Avery. As in, if there's anything on that PC you don't want the cops to see, you better delete it?
Was this her, trying to get back at Steven, through Brendan? Wouldn't surprise me at all to find out that is was Candy talking on IM. SHE's the one that told LE about it. She HATES Steven.
Remember, TIMING of when Wendy Baldwin interviewed Marie Avery on January 27th 2006, then Wiegert's interview of Kayla Avery on February 20th 2006. He used Jodi to segway into this.
In Steven Avery's letter to Ken Kratz in June 2018, he wrote:
[-]DJSupastarSarah
Body Language Expert weighs in on some of the videos I sent her.
Last week I emailed Traci Brown inviting her to group and asking her to give her expert opinion on a few videos I linked to her. I focused on videos featuring Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas considering I personally as well as others feel there is something more there behind their behavior. I will note that Traci has not watched the series yet.
Please visit her website to read more about Traci:
http://bodylanguagetrainer.com/
Here was her response:
Hi Sarah
I finally had the time to look at these videos. My comments are below:
http://wbay.com/2016/01/15/video-jan-19-2006-families-react-to-news-of-halbachs-remains/
There's nothing too unusual in this one with the fellow having the press conference. However, the woman (Candy Avery, Earl's wife) in the Avery family interviewed behind the door seemed a way too detached to be believable. I think she knows lots more than she's letting on about his guilt or innocence. She even said she was holding back but I think she knows part of the real truth of his involvement, maybe not the entire story.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/42dj6q/body_language_expert_traci_brown_weighs_in/
[–]MMonroe54
I believe I may have found out who warned Barb LE might be curious about the PC. Candy.
And how would Candy know? Did AC tell her? This is interesting as all get out!
Barb apparently doesn't keep track of what she says....or maybe even what she knows. That FB post, in direct contradiction to Bobby's testimony, is a bombshell.
[–]JJacks61[S]
"And how would Candy know? Did AC tell her? This is interesting as all get out!"
Possibly. They were friends. Did she find out, then it got to Earl and he told Barb? It's curious timing LOL.
That FB post, in direct contradiction to Bobby's testimony, is a bombshell.
I think so too. Perjured himself. Goes back to why would he do that?
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/8rnqxc/timing_of_statements_speculations_surrounding_bjt/
[–]Eric_eats_a_Banana[S]
I think Dedering was told by DCI Agents, especially Fassbender, plus Wiegert, to only follow the trail so far and do not let the focus move away from Steven, write reports that focus on Steven, and if anything else points away from him, then write it as if it is a dead end.
[–]s_wardy_s
It may only be my opinion but Dedering was the henchman. He's the tall bulky guy that rocks up at you door, puts the fear of god into you, and makes you believe in shit you never thought possible...
But he's also very smart, very intelligent, he writes reports to cover and make the trails... He's the guy filling the KK gaps in the reports.
If you want a metaphor for Dedering then think "Men in Black meets any Jason Statham role..."
He Got Away With It Scot-Free (self.TickTockManitowoc)
by SBRH33
I will be open about it. I never liked ST's involvement in the Halbach Investigation.
And neither did Steve's defense...
He had a dark cloud hovering over him. And to be frank, he was actually not a very good dude. His court record and rap sheet speak for themselves to that regard
A year and change later and I am still convinced of his involvement in in the criminal case framing Steve Avery for murder... and it goes beyond him merely being the prosecutions hatchet man.
My initial impression of him after watching MaM back in 2015 was that he had a real "hands" on involvement with Halbach's disappearance... either helped cover up the truth or colluded with others to pin the crime on Steve Avery, either way. His behavior during the investigation and his trial testimony illuminates the principle that there is more to Scott than meets the eye or the ears it seems for that matter... As of today I feel much more convinced of it than ever.
ST had an intimate knowledge of the Avery property, he knew the day to day operations of the yard. He likely was familiar with the family schedules and what they did with their free time. He most certainly was familiar with Steve Avery...
The defense IMO had slyly shown a spotlight on ST as best they could without tripping the Kratz/court established 3rd PartyLiability clause... actually they did trip it a few times causing Kratz and Fallon great distress... but the defense got their jabs in quite effectively and did a fine job with ST's testimony given the atmosphere they had to contend with in that Calumet courtroom.
So without further ado... here is my Friday offering.
Scott Tadych
Mark Wiegert Testimony Day 18
In the testimony above MW testifies in open court that ST's alibi of going to Green Bay to visit his mother in the hospital was never checked out.
That's is an incredible admission. Who else did investigators not properly vet in this case? Basically everyone except Steven Avery.
Nevermind the fact that ST used this very alibi twice on October 31st.
The first time, to cover for his absence from work on that fateful day...
The second time, to get BJ off and far away from the Avery property during a most critical time frame in which the prosecution claims all of the "shackling, raping, slashing, choking, punching, shooting and burning" that was alleged to be transpiring 60ft from Barb's front door on October 31st 2005.
What I find striking is how MW corroborated ST's alibi of going up to Green Bay that day... was that he simply asked Scott's girlfriend Barb if it were true... and of course she says... "Yeaah."
Excellent investigative work there Mark:
Interestingly enough an investigator does bother to take a poke at ST to verify that he had taken off from work that day and, in that process, it is revealed some interesting things about ST [starting on CASO page 719]... Most dramatically, that he had tried to sell .22 rifle to a coworker the weeks following Halbach's disappearance. But, like everything surrounding ST in the Halbach investigation, nothing ever comes of it.
Mark's stumbling testimony as seen in the testimony log above illustrates IMO quite clearly that LE wasn't going to be doing too much investigate'n into Mr. ST ...or any of his alibi's he gave for October 31st 2005.
But it gets even more ridiculous the more you digging you do.
Gone Hunt'n
Oh, by the way, Scott, who can corroborate that "hunting expedition" you undertook at 3pm on October 31st?... "oh just ask Bobby, my girlfriend's son... he saw me driving west on 147 to go hunting... he was going to hunt in my back yard."
Notice the pattern? The trinity of Barb, Bobby and Scott covering for each other.
Bye Bye Double Alibi
ST sandwiches some hunting time in between his two trips to Green Bay on the 31st of October 2005. His timing for his hunting expedition couldn't have been better... because he gets an important alibi from the only verifiable person to ever see him at all that day up to that point. Bobby D.
On one hand you have Bobby coming east on 147 from Avery Auto Salvage after supposedly just seeing Halbach in his driveway, and then you have Scott headed west on 147 in the direction of the salvage yard entrance, where Halbach should be pulling out onto 147, headed west toward Larabee ... as Steve Avery stated in his interview.
The two, as they pass each other, apparently have a moment of telekinesis... where they both know just where the other is headed without ever speaking to one another that day at all.
What is bothersome about this particular alibi is the fact that Scott was never asked exactly where he went hunting that afternoon... Or was he asked? ....just not directly so.
Bobby is in Scott's backyard hunting. But where is Scott? He isn't on any tangible radar so to speak. And in that very same sense neither is Bobby technically.
Without a third party to verify Scott and Bobby's Double Alibi it really becomes meaningless and unusable.
No one really knows for certain where either of them really were that Halloween afternoon.
For all anyone knows they could have gone to the Radandt Quarry and Deer Camp.
This is extremely alarming. Why did they have to Alibi each other if they didn't do anything criminal? The reason the Alibi was so flimsy in the first place is because it was a lie. And it wasn't even a good one. And I think everyone who had watched MaM for the first time I am certain every single persons reaction to the double alibi was.... "Yea freaking right, BS!"
Both men had their credibility completely neutered by the defense and it reads powerfully in the trial transcripts.
Barb's Falsified Alibi
...For the record, falsifying an Alibi is a criminal offense and punishable by law...
She Spent The Night
Did Scott give Dedering A False Alibi For Barb?
She Slept At Home
Or is Scott lying to Law Enforcement twice?
Why did Scott Alibi Barb away from the property on the night of October 31st in his statement with CASO's Dedering? Was it because it would have been obvious to Barb that Avery didn't have a "10ft Bonfire in the pit" that night. And if Steve did... then surely it would have been noticed by Barb and the rest of the Dassey boys.
Why did Kratz insist that Barb slept at home October 31st? Was it that he needed her there with Brendan to help fortify Brendan's confessions later at his trial?
It all just does not add up.
The Trinity
The Jandych's
Barb was once an Avery
Barb has four kids with Peter Dassey: Bryan, Bobby, Blaine and Brendan
Then married Tom Janda.
Barb starts up with Scott ...who is her current husband's cousin.
Barb is now officially a Tadych.
Dizzy yet? You should be.
I once read that Tom Janda had a hustle shot with Teresa on the ASY in the months before her disappearance... Strange if true. Now we have his cousin Scott kicking around the ASY with Barb, Tom's wife, in the months before Teresa's disappearance.
We have Scott continuously pointing the finger at Steve for the disappearance of Teresa. We have Scott seemingly being shielded from the investigation by Law Enforcement... Particularly the DCI.
We have Scott convincing Barb that Brendan should be questioned by investigators.
In the end we have Scott having the best day of his life and is thrilled that Avery "got what he had coming to him."
With Scott's Double Alibi with Bobby dismantled... serious questions begin to bubble to the surface. In particular those latent prints lifted from that RAV4 found on the ASY.
The latent prints indexed from the RAV4 were compared to the standards from everyone that was present on the ASY on October 31st 2005.
Everyone except one person. That's right. Scott.
He was there twice that day and he was very careful to testify that he never ever got out of his green Ford Ranger.
Scott has a decent criminal record. His print standards are all ready available at the Sheriff's Office.
Like Steve Avery proclaimed... "The truth always comes out in the end"
[–]SBRH33[S]
Yes. I have read on all sorts of depraved and criminal acts done to children by their parents.
In defense of Barb.... I think Scott was a... pressure cooker. One with a short fuse and a fast fist.
In fact that very "domestic" behavior is outlined in his arrest records.
But to clarify my belief in the matter.
I don't think Brendan was supposed to go to Jail. The State-Kratz needed Brendan to testify against Steve to give the sentence an air tight lid. When Brendan recanted and more importantly refused Kratz's plea offer... only then did Kratz bring the full weight of the State down upon him. When Barb says Brendan always tells her to blame Mark for everything... What she is saying is Mark most likely was reassuring Barb the entire time that Brendan wasn't going to go to jail for very long if they stuck to the script. But the plan went off of the rails. Fassbender tried to quarterback the plan by urging Scott to have Barb convince Brendan to take that plea deal. But by the time of Brendan's trial.... IMO Barb wasn't willing to go through with it. She knew it was all one big lie. Especially after watching what happened to Steve in the courtroom weeks earlier. She was rightly pissed off at everyone.
[–]lmogier
Let's not forget the last or second to last episode with DA, Barb, plus other(s), where DA mentions how Mr "3 different conflicting alibis" Scott told Barb that LEO told him to make sure BD took the plea deal he was offered. And that what he did on Oct 31st changed in all 3 of his statements. And that smear in the courtroom along with his disgusting statement after SA's conviction.
[–]Nexious
An excellent post. As a follow-up here also is my summary of the differing narratives Scott offered between 2005 and 2007:
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/71m2uu/summary_of_scott_ts_interviews_and_statements/
He goes from having nothing of substance to say about any fire (relying only on Barb's recollection that it was three feet high and that he thought nothing of it) to suddenly claiming the fire was the most memorable event of 10/31 as it was a roaring inferno the height of the garage. He changes the stories of who was outside, where and when, what time Barb was home or gone, what time he saw Bobby (shifting his timeline to before three come trial to more precisely match the state's narrative)...
Yesterday Barb nonchalantly mentioned that "they got Scott to bring me to the restaurant to try to get me to go by Brendan and tell him to take a plea bargain."
So they were literally working against Brendan and Barb through Scott, and he seemingly was cooperating with their requests.
Also we know from the JR affidavit that the investigators did what they could to inflate the size of the fire. I have no doubt this was the case with Scott as well to make it the centerpiece of his testimony, to implant in the jurors' minds the picture of Avery and Brendan standing around a 10 foot high fire with Teresa's body burning to ash.
Scott was described in very derogatory terms by coworkers... With one labeling him "a psycho" who "screams a lot" and "could be very capable of the murder or knowing something more." Another who said Scott was "acting weird and not himself." Scott also rambled to coworkers about the case, including about Brendan's stained jeans, only to eventually concede he really wasn't sure he actually saw the stains or just heard about them (after 3/1).
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/6020wd/he_got_away_with_it_scotfree/
Breaking into SA's trailer home (SA affidavit) (self.TickTockManitowoc)
by S_Hollmes
I'm a little confused. SA states he left the back door open Wed night (Nov 3rd), but also reports pry marks on the frame in his affidavit. Was there one break in? Or several break ins - one through open door, one later, when door was locked?
Also, when exactly did he smell cigarette smoke in his trailer?
[–]dogiggy
In the affadivit he mentions the officers asking to search the trailer on the morning of 11/4, they searched and then he locked it and left for work, and immediately follows up that he smelled cigarette smoke on 11/4.
He says he thought it was weird because he nor Jodi smoked and thought it meant someone was in his trailer, probably assuming LE wouldn't smoke in his trailer and that he mentioned that in an interview previously.
[–]dogiggy
He said he observed the pry marks on 11/5. He smelled the smoke Nov 4, the same day the two police officers in an unmarked car asked to search his trailer and he let them. I think it makes sense one of the officers may have been a smoker, or smoked in there, or the planter may have. If someone is a heavy smoker or just recently smoked leaving a lingering scent, a non-smoker would smell it immediately.
[–]dark-dare
You cannot prove there was a smoker in the trailer that day, however, the fact SA says this without prompting, at the time of the incident, and backed by a missing toothbrush, and marks on the door jam, and references missing blood from his sink, does make it a valid argument. He says it multiple times to multiple sources. It certainly speaks to reasonable doubt.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/6hfkcu/breaking_into_sas_trailer_home_sa_affidavit/
Dean Strang At Barb’s To Get Dassey Hard Drive Same Day As DCI ? (Solid Proof)
by Chad Keller
The Wisconsin Department of Criminal Investigations (DCI) reports taking the Janda residence computer hard drive on April 21, 2006. Former DCI Special Agent Thomas Fassbender’s report clearly states the computer forensics wasn’t ran until the following day, on April 22nd.
More than a week earlier, on April 10, 2006, we have the following exchange taking place between former Prosecutor Ken Kratz and Attorney Dean Strang:
Two questions Zellner should be asking herself in regard to this exchange:
1) Where is a copy, in full, of the the April 5, 2006, letter from Strang to Kratz, and what does it detail?
2) What is the importance of asking for the Janda Residence computer hard drive on April 5th, if it won’t even be investigated until the 22nd? (It appears as if both parties oddly have insight into the information already on this hard drive.)
Now, for the record, Dean Strang didn’t just send Kratz a letter and then it was magically forgotten about.
Dean Strang was at Barb Janda’s home on the very same day that DCI showed up, on Friday, April 21st, trying to get the hard drive in person. There’s recorded proof Strang was there. Play the video below starting at 13:30-14:05.
Dean @ Barb’s April 21st (Steven Avery's jail phone calls published by BM on Mar 1, 2016)
It was so important to get this hard drive, that we even hear Steven Avery knowing that the hard drive was going to be retrieved before the state ever tests it on April 22nd.
https://productionsouth.wordpress.com/2017/12/23/dean-strang-at-barbs-to-get-dassey-hard-drive-same-day-as-dci-solid-proof/
Important Little Reminders & Just A Coincidence? (self.TickTockManitowoc)
by Eric_eats_a_Banana
On April 3, 2006, the public defender's office approved Michael O'Kelly to perform Dassey's polygraph exam for $350 (O'Kelly was not a certified polygraph examiner nor a licensed investigator in Wisconsin).
The same day, Kachinsky also forwarded O'Kelly a copy of Brendan's criminal complaint. O'Kelly reviewed the criminal complaint and made some notes about it in preparation for the polygraph exam, although he didn't remember doing so on the stand.
On April 11, 2006, O'Kelly had a phone conference with Kachinsky about the polygraph exam and its perceived urgency (planned for Easter day).
On April 16, 2006 (Easter Sunday) O'Kelly conducted the polygraph exam with Brendan at jail. O'Kelly setup his polygraph equipment and then turned a video recorder on and alerted the jail personnel that he was ready for Brendan. Note that O'Kelly never handed over the video of this polygraph exam and claimed to not have it as of 2010. O'Kelly said the same about other materials being lost or missing and therefore unavailable for Brendan's defense counsel. All of this is quoted from Nexious's linked post, MoK's expenses form has April 9th 2006, as the polygraph date but I think that is an error by MoK because Nexious does his homework when posting
By April 20, O'Kelly's role in the Dassey case evolved from a Polygraphist to an investigator. O'Kelly also went to Kratz's office to review photos/discovery this day (quoted from Nexious's post). It is obvious reading through the two posts linked at the very top of this post, that even by April 20th, MoK is looking for evidence against Steven Avery and if that evidence implicates Brendan then that is good because it confirms his involvement and makes him truthful and easier to get a plea deal for!
MoK meets with with lots of people, lots of times! On April 21st 2006 he calls Barb, Scott T and Mike K. Mike K is Blaine's boss and calls the Dassey household on October 31st 2005 at around 5:30-5:45pm (the state try to push this call to 6pm at trial) to speak to Blaine, however, Blaine is out trick or treating and it is Brendan who Mike K ends up speaking to.
Later on April 21st MoK then interviews Barb in person.
Still On April 21, 2006
Fassbender and Wiegert obtain a warrant and go to the Dassey trailer to seize their computer. The warrant names Fassbender only, I believe the warrant is a DCI warrant because it is not listed in the "Warrants" section of the case files nor is it mentioned at all anywhere in the CASO report, nor is there anything mentioned in CASO leading up to or after April 21st that gives a reason for seizing the computer or that it has been seized.
The warrant states the reason for seizing the computer is because both Candy and Marie Avery say they have talked to Brendan via instant messaging about the crime, Brendan using the "nigerforlife" screen name. I can only assume both of these chats with Candy and Marie were done with DCI agents as there is nothing in CASO about this until LE interview Brendan again on 05/13/2006 and ask him about talking about the crime online.
Fassbender's search warrant for Dassey computer:
[(http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Amended-Supplement-to-Previously-Filed-Motion-for-Reconsideration.pdf)] (begins page 32)
However a later DCI report which is not written until 12/07/2006, names Wiegert as being involved in executing the warrant.
The long gap from April 21st 2006 to December 7th 2006 is very interesting because in December 2006 Buting and Strang were working on getting ready for Steven's trial.
[(https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-FbC6qJwDACWK3OF_8v6siwHHr9GkGQL5PcxZTnsUEo/edit#gid=0)]
So the computer is seized on April 21st.
Remember there are at least two new affidavits that confirm Barb hired someone to "reformat" the computer to "get rid of the porn so nobody can find what is on there" (paraphrasing).
Therefore we can be certain that by the date the computer was seized, at least some of the family knew or suspected what was on it.
April 22, 2006
On April 22, O'Kelly spoke with the Dassey family and took notes of so-called strategy ideas. He alleged that most of these ideas came from the Dassey family themselves, and his written notes included:
MoK meets many of the Dasseys, Scott Tadych, Mike K, and many LE officers before this next date (you can check them out in Nexious's linked post, including two sets of handwritten notes by MoK).
May 11, 2006
Mike Velie provides Fassbender with his detailed report regarding the Dassey computer contents.
May 12, 2006
MoK interviews or calls Bobby, Fassbender and Dedering.
May 13, 2006
Brendan "confesses" to Fassbender and Wiegert again, this time with even more information.
All of the above may well be a coincidence, or it may be a possible sign some members of the Dassey family decided to throw Brendan to the wolves because of what was on that computer.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/8ymmx6/important_little_reminders_just_a_coincidence/
by SpiritWolf395
In one of Blaine's first statements, he describes the voicemail left on Barb's phone from Teresa. Teresa says she will be there between 1 and 2, just giving you a heads up, if there are any problems give a call back, and leaves a number.
Nowhere in Blaine's statement does it say anything about not being able to find the Janda residence, and this is also backed up by the fact that Teresa has been to the Janda's numerous times to photograph vehicles for Tom and Barb.
The Janda voicemail in evidence has Teresa not being able to find a property, which she has been to numerous times, proving that it is not the Janda voicemail, but the Zipperer voicemail, proven by Joellen's first statement to Detective Jacobs.
The voicemail that is actually missing is the Janda voicemail, which probably reveals some of the details of what actually happened to Teresa Halbach.
There is reason these voicemails were switched, and Barb's is missing. It's all about the little details. There is no way Teresa didn't know the Jandas, period.
Did Bobby pick up during Teresa's call? He was the only one home.
[-] magiclougie
Bobby may not have been the only one home.
Steven Avery said in his most recent affidavit that when he went outside to get papers from his Grand AM, he saw Scott Tadych's green Ford Ranger parked behind Bobby Dassey's Blazer.
This was about 12:10 PM on 10/31. Teresa called about 25 minutes earlier, at 11:43 AM.
So Scott could have been there, inside Barb's home, when Teresa called.
Steven said Scott's truck was gone about 15 minutes after he first noticed it at 12:10 PM.
On November 6, 2005, Marinette County deputy O’Neill returned to question Avery in Crivitz. O'Neill was joined by Special Agent Skorlinski from the Wisconsin Department of Justice, Division of Criminal Investigation (DCI). As far as I know this was the DOJ's first interview of Avery regarding Teresa's disappearance. O'Neill is first up, and asks plenty of questions that are remarkably similar to the ones he asked a day earlier. Eventually we come to the moment where Avery is asked to clarify when Bobby left the property. Exhibit 17 of Zellner's July 6, 2018, Motion to Supplement. Exhibit 17 is a transcription of the November 6, 2005 interview between Avery, O'Neill and Skorlinski. Skorlinski asked Avery if Bobby spoke with Teresa over the phone on Oct 31, 2005. Specifically, Skorlinski asked Avery: “Teresa never said, ‘Oh by the way I just called and talked to your nephew,’ or anything like that?”
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Motion-to-Supplement-Previously-Filed-Motion-for-Post-Conviction-Relief.pdf#page=31
[–]magilla39
Scott and Bobby arranged the false alibi to give Scott cover, not Bobby.
In fact, Blaine and Brendan provide Bobby an alibi up until the time he leaves for his graveyard shift that night. Perhaps Bobby didn't go to work, and met up with Scott, but Blaine's statement tends to incriminate Scott, who later sought an alibi from Bobby.
In addition, it seems unlikely that Bobby would assault Teresa, or even witness her assault, and then go home and go to sleep. Bobby would be hyped up by the crime, and unlikely to be able to fall asleep.
This would tend to suggest that Scott acted, and Scott acted without Bobby.
Further, it suggests that Scott had not spoken with Bobby about the false alibi until later on the timeline.
If Blaine's early recollection was correct, then Scott arranged for a false alibi with Bobby.
Also, his alibi for the rest of the night comes from Barb. Could that be a second false alibi?
Arranging for a false alibi is highly inculpatory.
We know Barb tried to conceal the computer porn. What else is she concealing? Did she give Scott Tadych a false alibi, too?
My spidey-sense has been going off recently, and it seems centered on Scott.
11/05/05 interview:
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Steven-Avery-Interview-Report-2005Nov05.pdf#page=4
Steven went on to explain further in more detail, saying that when Teresa got inside the driver's side (seated in driver's seat) to get the Auto Trader magazine for him he had been holding onto the driver's side door (outside, top or side) up until she handed him the magazine, and he had then left and returned back to his trailer home, dropping off the book, then going over to his sister's home to see if Bobby was home but finding that Bobby was already gone.
Steven says Bobby's Blazer is parked next to Barb's garage while Teresa is there taking the photos and talking to Steven. Teresa then leaves and Steven goes back inside his trailer just long enough to put the Autotrader magazine down, then he goes back outside to find Bobby and chat with him. But Bobby's Blazer is now gone.
Here's the transcript from the 11/06/05, specifically pages 46-48:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/b79exnahkck553j/%5B2005%2011%2006%5D%20-%20Steven%20Avery%20Police%20Interview.pdf?dl=0
So all Steven Avery sees is that Bobby Dassey's black Blazer is gone.
Did they switch cars, with Bobby leaving first, around 12:30 PM, in Scott's truck because it was blocking his Blazer? Did Scott stay behind at Barb's house, and did he leave in Bobby's Blazer, just before or after Teresa left around 2:35 PM?
Did anyone search Bobby's Blazer?
[-] SashasrevengeWe requested the parking light. The State objected. That's an issue on appeal. Bobby's vehicle has been crushed. @MakingAMurderer #AskZellner https://t.co/vW6UBL4ZXI— Kathleen Zellner (@ZellnerLaw) October 23, 2018
I think the voicemail ties the killer to Teresa's disappearance. The killer answered the phone as Teresa was leaving her message, and this is when the killer sets up a hustle shot with Teresa on Kuss Road. The answering machine recorded this conversation. This is the reason why the recordings were switched and the Zipperer voicemail is missing.
[–]tick_tock_manitowoc
Check the audio, notice the volume doesn't increase as the camera moves closer to the speaker.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xgf_3Cmf-O4
[–]bigmouthlurker
It all goes back to what is fact and what is fabrication. It's a video with audio, but no proof the audio matches the video. These investigators were diabolical.
[–]larrytheloader123
Am I seeing this video correctly and that it goes from message 9 to 6 in a millisecond? Video edit, again? Ugh! Seriously?
[–]Nexious
That's always been intriguing to me. There is no variance at all in the audio level throughout the recording.
https://i.imgur.com/IpSjPM6.jpg
The only technical explanation is if the audio had been digitally hard-limited and normalized. Would be nice to know if the original CD copy is this way or if it was altered before uploading to YouTube.
For what it's worth I remember Barb being asked about it and she said that was her answering machine but the call played back didn't sound familiar.
The fact that the state apparently didn't seize the answering machine containing one of Teresa's last audio recordings (for preservation and further analysis) and instead relied entirely on a random video recording of it being played back - and then "lost" the supposed Zipperer call--Teresa's true final voice recording--is disturbing.
[-] Kirilkk
Just noticed in the end you can hear another phone ringing? Almost like an office phone going off and then they cut the video quick. Unless that's someone's mobile in the background.
[-] Coriolan
That’s what I have been thinking and posted this yesterday. I think the switch was because Bobby [or Scott] picked up the call mid voicemail and therefore the conversation was recorded. Maybe he set up a hustle shot off the ASY. But for some reason, that recorded conversation had to be replaced and that’s my theory on why.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/9rvklm/the_zipperers_voicemail_ended_up_as_the_janda/
[-] Kayki7
The evidence looks pretty bleak for Scott. My only question that I can’t seem to stop asking, is why? What motive would ST have? To just randomly murder someone?
Unless, and this is something that JUST dawned on me tonight, unless TH had a secret relationship with ST..... and nobody knew about it. Maybe she broke things off.. maybe he didn’t like that? I have no idea. But something would have had to happen for ST to decide to kill TH. (If he did it) does anyone know of ST frequented bars?
[–]thed0ngs0ng
Some shady relationships and financials that have been revealed could be the motive for ST's alleged involvement.
Scott and Bobby Switching trucks (self.TickTockManitowoc)
by Twstdtrth
Ok, so it seems that Bobby and Scott may have switched trucks for some reason. Maybe Bobby forgot his phone in his black truck with Scott. It could be where the pings came from. But why did they switch trucks.
[-] struoc1
Why did they both miss work on that specific day?
[–]JLWhitaker
Bobby didn't. He worked night shift.
[-] Danny1878
But he was 2 hours late.
[–]JLWhitaker
That's questionable. There is no documentation that shows this is true. It is conjecture on KZ's part, possibly based on a LE report that says he left for work at 2330 when other reports say 2130.
[–]7-pairs-of-panties
If Scott and Bobby switched tricks it still doesn’t help their case much.
If Scott was driving Bobby’s Blazer that day than....
1) Scott wouldn’t have been at the hospital that afternoon because Bobby’s Blazer was sitting out front, and Scott’s truck was there for some of the time.
2) If Scott was driving the Blazer than it was HIM that drive out of the ASY right after TH.
3) If Bobby was driving Scott’s truck it wasn’t there when TH showed up on the lot. That would mean that ALL of Bobby’s testimony was false.
4) None of the Dassey boys owned a green ranger at the time the crime occurred. The ONLY person on the lot that owned a green Ford Ranger was Scott.
For some reason Barb thinks she will make things better by telling more lies on top of all the lies she’s already told all WITHOUT reading any of the PCR motions or exhibits so she can understand whats all being accused.
[-] magiclougie
On 11/7/05, Blaine Dassey told DCI agents that Bobby Dassey drives a black Chevrolet Blazer (primary), dark blue Caprice Classic, and a red Eagle Talon (non-operable).
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Trial-Exhibit-355-Blaine-Dassey-11-7-2005-Interview.pdf
[–]subzero0000
What seems more interesting to me is that I find the propane truck driver to be a fairly reliable witness. He stated that he spotted a blue/green car leaving the salvage yard at around 3:30pm. If TH left (as per SA's statement at around 2:30pm), then this clearly wasn't TH leaving at that point. If Barb is now saying that Bobby swapped cars with Steven, then this is potentially Bobby leaving the salvage yard at this point.
Steven states that Bobby left not long after Teresa left (in a Blazer?), so is it possible that Bobby followed Teresa out, killed her, and then came back in on foot through Kuss Road, up through the quarry, and back to his house to take Scott Tadych's truck out to clean up?
[-] magiclougie
And Blaine's recent affidavit and clarification on youtube puts Bobby driving a Ford Ranger, heading east on Highway 147, at about 3:30 PM (Blaine was on the school bus, heading west toward Avery Road).
Maybe Bobby was driving back from hunting somewhere near Maribel and drove Scott's truck westward on Highway 147 to Mike O's home on Nuclear Road in Kewaunee, arriving around 4 PM to hunt some more on Mike's property. Then after killing a deer, he drove back home to hang it, arriving home shortly before 5 PM.
If Bobby switched vehicles with Scott, and Steven said Scott's truck was gone by 12:30 PM, then Bobby left in Scott's truck around 12:30 PM.
This would mean that Scott Tadych was using the computer in the Dassey home from 1-2 PM on 10/31, and Scott was the one who left in Bobby's Blazer right before or after Teresa, around 2:35 PM.
And maybe Bobby saw Teresa leave because, as he was driving Scott's truck back home after hunting, he saw her travelling on Highway 147. This also would mean Bobby saw Scott in the Blazer, following Teresa, or Teresa following Scott.
On 10/31/2005, the Dassey computer was used to access the internet at 6:05 AM, 6:28 AM, 6:31 AM, 7:00 AM, 9:33 AM, 10:09 AM, 1:08 PM, and 1:51 PM (source).
[–]subzero0000
Bobby stated that he left in his Blazer to go hunting (I grabbed my bow, got into my Blazer, and left). This now contradicts Barb's statement that Bobby swapped cars with Scott Tadych.
[–]Courtauld
When did BT spin this whopper? I read she claimed Bobby had a green Ranger instead of the extremely well-documented black Blazer.
Now is she saying they "switched vehicles"? Unbelievable. And when and why would they do that since they "only passed each other and waved"?
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/8xswtx/scott_and_bobby_switching_trucks/
[–]PubTender
"Rumor" has it that ST's brother has said that ST lied and was not at the hospital during the day with their mother. ST's brother made the comment about it on fb and soon after deleted it.
The trailer Scott lived in was allegedly removed Spring of '06.
[–]that_1_friend
I spoke with 4 people that live near the ASY, two of those people still get parts from Allen. They all said Manitowoc is a small town and everyone knows everyone’s business. They said people with strong feelings of SA being guilty refuse to watch MaM1 or 2. One man said his sister dated STs brother and he was also abusive. When she threatened to leave, ST and his brother put bullets in her car with her name on them. Basically, if you are “in” with LE, no matter how bad you are, you can get away with anything.
by tick_tock_manitowoc
They don't have one for 10/31.
I will explain as I just did on Twitter.
Bobby Dassey was interviewed on 11/05/05, 11/09/05, 2/27/06 and 11/17/17. Every single interview was Dedering.
In his first interview he is asked if he saw anyone driving, and he mentioned he saw Scott, and that Scott would know what time. The next two interviews, Dedering does not mention Scott or if he saw anyone.
In 2017, he tells Dedering he saw Scott at 3pm. This is odd because..
On 11/10/05, 11/30/05, 3/30/06 and 11/10/17 Scott Tadych was interviewed. His first interview, his drive from Aurora Bay was an hour, from 2:15 to 3:15pm.
Scott's first two interviews were by DCI agents, who never spoke to Bobby at all.
His 11/29/05 interview, there was no drive to worry about. He was at work, came straight home, and went hunting. Saw Bobby..weird, even though he arrived home at 3:15pm, he waved at Bobby on his way to going hunting..at 3:10pm, but okay.
His 3/30/06 interview was by Dedering. And in this statement, he was at the hospital all day, returning around dusk or a little after. No mention of hunting. No mention of Bobby.
His 11/10/17 interview, he mentions seeing Bobby, but still never mentioned a time.
Now this is the same investigator, Dedering, that Bobby told him, "You have to get the time from Scott." So Dedering KNEW Scott was reported to have seen Bobby but didn't ask anything at all about seeing him.
So you see, the DCI agents did not confirm Scott's alibi, and Dedering did not confirm Bobby's.
They both had no alibi for 10/31/05.
[–]thesocraticproblem
Okay let's try this:
TH leaves the Avery property and is killed by "X" near Kuss Road.
The body is cremated in the Deer Camp burn barrel near Kuss Road.
The remains are transported to the quarry.
The car is ditched near Scott's trailer (where Bobby supposedly was going hunting. This is also close to the Deer Camp).
Sneaky Colborn receives a tip about where the car is ditched.
Colborn calls it in and screws up by giving away the fact that he is currently looking at the car.
Colborn (and possibly others affected by the Avery lawsuit) orchestrate moving the car onto Avery property (with the help of Hillegas).
Now shit gets weird. After the car is found, they bring in dogs to search. The results of this search creates problems for both the killer and the police; The dogs find bones in the quarry, which contradicts the early reports of a fire outside Steve's trailer being used to cremate the body.
https://i.redd.it/iuj1h5eqelv11.jpg
The remains of Teresa are dumped in the county pit by the murderer. When whomever decided to move the bones did so, they did not manage to move/find them all. As far as we know, we are still missing ribs, which should be found in a reasonable amount. Maybe still buried in the county pit? Maybe completely removed later in order to insure not being found?
[-] struoc1Police dogs originally tracked Teresa's remains to the Manitowoc gravel site. Kathleen contends that something happened to Teresa prior to her remains being found on the Avery property. pic.twitter.com/RTdZKnFeYW— Making A Murderer (@MakingAMurderer) November 1, 2018
I think the MAM2 insinuated the body remains, ribs and vertebrae don't burn well, so amateur murders take this and bury it somewhere else to dispose of it.
The whole connection to cutting up deer seems solid. In the mutilation part confused me for years on this case. It was too bizarre, but now the simple deer and hunting tools make such solid sense.
I grew up with that around and friends and family hunting, but never connected it like KZ did in MAM2. Jaw dropping moment when the "shoe fits," the puzzle piece fits perfectly.
The Deer Hunters would have all the tools and stomach for it probably, especially whoever enjoyed viewing chopped up dead women pictures.
[–]bonnieandy2
Good observation! Dedering knows what to ask and what not to ask.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/9q3585/scott_and_bobby_were_never_each_others_alibis/
[-] bennybaku
Sometimes I go over the statements, and I was looking over Earl Avery's and found this weird event in the written report:
Investigators continue to question EARL about Monday, 10/31/05. EARL intemrpts investigators anxious to tell them something. EARL states yesterday, Thursday, 11/10/05, while EARL's driving up north to see his father he calls his wife, CANDY. EARL states he tells his wife he believes STEVEN AVERY did it and that he is guilty. He believes STEVEN AVERY has killed TERESA HALBACH. Investigators ask EARL why he believes STEVEN would have done it. EARL recalls an event in the cabin up north. EARL states JACKIE (ph), STEVEN's girlfriend, STEVEN, BARBARA and EARL are at the cabin. He states STEVEN's girlfriend places her hand on EARL's. STEVEN shoots his girlfriend a look and STEVEN wants to leave. Earl believes he is getting jealous. EARL states STEVEN and STEVEN's girlfriend, JACKIE (ph), exit the cabin.JACKIE is very intoxicated and falls down. EARL recalls the following events while breaking down into tears. EARL tells investigators STEVEN then kicks his girlfriend like a dog and repeatedly grabs her hair. EARL says the next day STEVEN acts normal like nothing has happened.Earl believes SA is guilty. One part he tells LE the story of how SA kicked Jodi(apparently EA refers to her as Jackie) like a dog, after she touched EA's knee hand. He breaks down in tears in recalling the event? I don't know maybe Earl is a sensitive guy, but breaking down in tears about a person he can't even remember her name? This is so strange.
SA and EA have a history. EA when he was 16 had sex with his wife when he was in prison for the false conviction. EA has stated SA gave him the permission to do so. But there are police records where SA was very angry about that. I don't know, but in my opinion I don't think SA ever suggested EA have sex with his wife for at least a year.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/5yw6mg/seriously_ea_breaking_down_in_tears/
[–]trial-in-my-backyard
One of my direct employees is /was related at one point in time to someone who is connected to Earl in this case. I'm not going to say names or initials, but think rabbits [CASO pages 74-75, 208-210, 236-238, 310-311, 319-320]. This person also has a family member that was/is close with BD. From everything I know from random conversations about this topic, "rabbits" was absolutely there with Earl the day this supposedly went down, and "rabbits" heard or saw nothing out of the ordinary. And this statement was said with passion. It was also said that this was the same day, because this person took said family member trick or treating in Two Rivers that night, which was October 31st that year. I'm terrible with dates and don't know this to be fact, but that is what was said.
I don't intend to be mean, but from what I know of the Avery Family, and what this person has said, the family is a little bit beyond "different". Which, I think has sort of been proven by some recorded phone messages that just came out lately.
This person, myself and many other certainly believe that SA was/is capable of doing something like this, but it definitely did not happen the way it has been portrayed, that is for sure. Whether he was part of it or not, I have no idea. But, I am 100% on board with BD not being a part of this at all. I know someone that attended school with him, and there is no way in hell that he would be intuitive enough to be part of such an elaborate cover up. Absolutely no way.
The only thing that makes me believe that SA could have been a part of this are comments that BD was saying about his "uncle" right after this happened. From what I have been told, it was nothing super specific, but the statements were bad enough that he was told he needed to leave and not come back from the place he was at.
My understanding is that BD was making these comments just after SA's arrest, and before BD's interrogations. Once again, the statements were pretty vague, but made things uncomfortable enough that contact was broken off between BD and "his friend" by someone else in the family.
There is a massive, massive conflict of interest concern in this case which has gone largely ignored/unknown. It involves Colborn. (self.MakingaMurderer)
by Classic_Griswald
Some of you are aware of Colborn's relationship with Earl. It's been stated in a few places there was a friendship there at one time. Earl, I think in a news interview, confirms this (but mentions it's due more to his wife, Candy. Unaware where the wife part comes in from though, the news video is link below.)
I assumed originally, that Earl's wife was probably friends with Colborn's wife. It's also possible Colborn was friends more so with Earl's wife (Candy), though I don't know if we can confirm that entirely. We know there's a friendship between them in some respect though.
Keep it in mind.
Regardless, at the very least, Colborn and Candy are friends either directly or indirectly through the friendship to Earl.
Steven's relationship with Marie Avery (Candy's daughter and Earl's stepdaughter). However you want to frame the stuff going on between Steven and Marie, that's up to you. Wendy Baldwin, (the one who likes making jokes about framing Avery in evidence videos) investigated the case that never happened [before the murder case], and it's her reports/interviews with MA that are in the CASO report.
A thread on Baldwin chasing down MA to try and document the relationship between her and Steven.
What might not be known by some is that MA is Candy's daughter.
There is no blood relation to Steve. It was Candy's daughter from another marriage or from wherever.
A thread on how Candy disliked Steven.
To support that the relationship between Colborn and Earl and his wife was also Candy and Colborn, Candy is quoted in a news article:
"I know Colborn very well. I highly doubt Colborn planted anything."
CONFLICT OF INTEREST
If Candy and Colborn are friends, and Candy hates Avery because of his relationship with her daughter... That is enough where an individual officer like Colborn should be pulling himself away from the case.
It's also not established if he had stopped talking to Earl, but I think we can assume as much. Especially since Earl had criminal charges against him for videotaping the kids during a session while they were swimming.
It's quite possible not only Colborn is no longer friends with Earl, but that he is still friends with Candy, or at least has feelings for her - compassion, whatever. Which might include feelings of disgust regarding Steven & Earl.
It raises some serious questions about Colborn's need to inject himself into this case from the very early onset.
It also raises questions about Kayla's interaction with police and Earl's inconsistent statements, and Fabian seemingly trying to incriminate Steven.
The whole thing is a mess. And I thought it was pretty odd such a large part of the investigation was dedicated to a past incident which was not even prosecuted, which does not even have any relation to Teresa's disappearance.
I'm not trying to make excuses for Avery. Up to you to frame him (no pun intended) how you want to after reading Baldwin's reports. I think it's obvious why they are such a big part of the investigation, and why the guilty-obsessed are also obsessed on the reports. The more you demonize Avery the harder it is for people to defend him, or even defend law & order in general. Attack the messenger and you kill the message.
The problem is we should not be happy with this. If he's guilty of murder I want to see a case reflect that, showing evidence he committed the murder. Not that he's a guy people are hoping is guilty.
The conflict of interest issue this raises with Colborn cannot be simply ignored or discounted. Especially when Colborn was present during the key find, and injected himself into the case essentially before it even began. At the very least it ensures extreme bias, at worst its possible it influenced his actions. The extent of which we do not know.
Newscast program with an interview of Earl. It's established around ~13:50 that he was friends with Colborn.
"What bugs me the most, is that Colborn used to be my buddy and I don't understand how he could do such a thing." - Earl Avery
Colborn alluding to the relationship between him and Earl/Candy:
Q. Tell the jury how you are familiar with that business.
A. I have been, personally, a customer of the Avery Auto Salvage business; as well as, I have had contacts there through with law enforcement. And I have children that are the same age as some of the owners of Avery Auto Salvage, so I had contact with them through the course of school events.
Page 69
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/4eywtx/there_is_a_massive_massive_conflict_of_interest/
Sheriff Pagel's Surprisingly Accurate Prediction (self.TickTockManitowoc)
by needless_things
Sheriff Pagel's Surprisingly Accurate Prediction.
Instructions from Sheriff Pagel concerning Avery were sent out to staff on January 31, 2006.
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Sheriff-Instructions-to-Jail-Staff.pdf
"In reviewing phone conversations, it appears that Steven Avery is becoming more anxious and desperate with not having been released on bail. Additional charges may be filed in the next several weeks which could add to his stress level."
How would Pagel have known, at this point in January 2006, that additional charges may be filed?
January 31, 2006 was long before LE began focusing on Brendan Dassey.
November 5, 2005
RAV4 located on ASY.
November 6, 2005
Brendan is interviewed concerning Teresa's disappearance.
November 10, 2005
Brendan is interviewed concerning Teresa's presumed death.
January 2006
Earl and Candy's daughter Kayla speaks with a school counselor about things she had been hearing at home. Her statements were not made in front of LE and she never mentioned BD's name. LE was not contacted.
February 22, 2006
Kayla is interviewed by Wiegert and Fassbender. After the interview they decide to go and speak with Brendan.
Recall:
It was on January 31, 2006 that Pagel announced to his staff via written directive that additional charges may be filed against Avery that would add to his stress level.
It was on February 22, 2006 that Wiegert and Fassbender said they decided it would be prudent to speak with Brendan again.
February 27, 2006
Brendan is interviewed 3 times.
Steven is ordered into Administrative Segregation.
"Per 700, after conversation with 801 and 815, we were instructed to place the above subject [Avery] on administrative seg. Avery has been placed in I-003 until 700 can speak with him."
Obviously, this is no coincidence. The 27th of February was the first contact LE had with Brendan since November 10, 2005.
Brendan Dassey: A Recent Development
And then, on March 1st at 3:24 PM, one day before Brendan will be charged and taken into custody, this...
"Due to recent development in the Avery case we ask that correctional Staff check inmate Avery at a min ever 1/2 hour until further notice. The telephone will also remain off until further notice."
Getting Ugly
Suddenly, later that day, the 'confession' is pretty much in the bag and it is no longer deemed necessary to have personnel babysit Avery, he is released from administrative seg and finally allowed to speak to his lawyer.
March 1, 2006, at 8:32 PM - Avery Jail Log
"Above (Avery) did state to me that 'I guess they arrested my nephew.' He also stated, 'My lawyer said it's getting pretty ugly now'."
[–]JJacks61
Pagel is quite amazing. Not only did he correctly predict more charges, he was able to stay off the radar just enough to avoid to much scrutiny.
The memo is pretty damning though. Makes me want to know the "work product" discussions they were having. It had to be in a folder named "Killing SA's Alibi".
Another thing that is quite shocking to me is how Pagel was allowed to mingle with the jury during their deliberations. I just don't think this happens very often. To me it amounts to jury tampering or intimidation.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/5h40js/sheriff_pagels_surprisingly_accurate_prediction/
Timing of Statements, [Speculations] surrounding BJT and others. Yes, more questions. (self.TickTockManitowoc)
by JJacks61
I was looking up statements by Scott Tadych and comparing them. In total he made four.
November 10th 2005 DCI Statement.
November 29th 2005 DCI Statement.
March 30th 2006 CASO Statement. FIVE Months after the fact, right?
February 27th 2007 Day 12 Avery trial testimony.
It could be argued that none of the statements really matter, only the testimony. I'd have to strongly disagree with that, because these statements gave information during an investigation.
And his story grew and vastly changed, always towards incriminating Avery.
The oh so glib double alibi that removes Bobby and Scott from the ASY during Kratz's critical and insane time frame. Bobby is SURE Scott will know what time it was when they saw each other going to these different places to hunt.
(If the hunting is good behind Scott's place, why doesn't he hunt there as well?)
Let's also not forget the multiple contacts Scott had with MoK, one of them O'Kelly apparently made a trip specifically to Manitowoc to talk to Scott.
April 25th 2006 - MoK STATEMENT of services, page 3. Seems rather odd, making this drive to talk to a boyfriend. And just a few days after Bobby's hdd had been seized. Interesting. There were also multiple phone calls.
Tom Janda moved out in Oct 2005. What I'd like to know is when did Barb and Scott start dating? His heavy involvement seems to begin as soon as Tom moved out, right? I mean, was he a NEW boyfriend, because that's not what I'm seeing here. How long had this affair been going on? Yea, it really does matter. Timing.
I've skimmed through the details of each of the statements because most everyone has read them. And this is only part of the reason I'm posting this. WHO gave statements and WHEN they were taken has some bearing as well.
Also, keep in mind, the DCI was running their own semi-shadow investigation. I don't say that as in some nefarious thing, it's only because most of their work remains unknown to us. Yet, there were dozens of DCI Agents involved in these cases. Is it me, or is it weird as fuck these reports weren't part of the trial?
I've tried to find the date Barb gave her statement to the DCI. I was told (through PM) that her statement is 13 pages. I have no idea if this is true. I believe it's a foregone conclusion she did give at least ONE statement to them, but I'd like to know: who the agent was, what was the date, and the details. Timing and DETAILS matter.
Barb Janda / Barb Avery is mentioned at least 275 times in the CASO report, yet AFAIK, she only gave ONE OFFICIAL interview, plus being served with a search warrant for biological and fingerprint evidence.
November 9th 2005 (Search Warrent contact). "Please note that Barb did speak to S/A KAPITANY on the way to Aurora Medical Center."
We DO NOT have that report AFAIK. This event gives no indication of what Barb said to KAPITANY. Interestingly, once they all got to the medical center, it was discovered the warrant was invalid because the last name said Avery, NOT Janda. She agreed to let them proceed.
November 14th 2005 is the only OFFICIAL interview available to us from Wendy Baldwin FFS (who didn't testify at either trial).
BUT, let's not forget other events that helped steer the course of this saga.
FOX HILLS. The events that culminated in several LEO's, but mainly Mark Wiegert and Tom Fassbender whisking Barb, Brendan and later Blaine of for a fun night of un-recorded questioning.
Look at ALL of the legal events that occurred during February 2006 listed HERE, and this only covers the big things. TIMING MATTERS.
IDK how many other people were interviewed before Barb was, it appears to be many... need those DCI reports, seriously.
It's gone now from the public records search of WI Court records, but Barb entered into a "Deferred Agreement" on February 8th 2006. This lasted for ONE year. I have a screen shot, but since it's been publicly removed. I'm NOT going to post it. (This removal happened AFTER the Barb/Avery/Tadych phone call.)
But, what we don't know is the details of this agreement, and it damn well MAY matter. Especially if this was used as a pressure point against her.
Back to FOX HILLS. After TWO prior interviews on February 27th , it was decided that there was a safety issue for the Dasseys, so they were taken to a hotel. Surrounding the many issues over this is that it wasn't recorded. Look at the multiple witnesses interviewed in the CASO Report, and you will quickly see many were memorialized. But NOT this one? I find this absolutely ridiculous.
February 27th 2005 - 12:30 pm Brendan is interviewed at Mishcot High School. Interview is recorded.
February 27th 2005 - 3:21 pm Brendan is interviewed at Two Rivers Police Department. Interview is recorded.
At some point, it was decided to move these interrogations to a hotel. And NOT record anything. It's been said that Wiegert and Fassbender reported that their recording equipment failed, but I cannot find that report anywhere. I find that not recording these interrogations, and the reason for taking them to a fucking hotel, HIGHLY suspicious.
I also find it odd as hell Barb only gave ONE interview that has been made public.
Scott Tadych gave three AND was one of the star witnesses for the State. Fallon mentioned Scott many times in Brendan's trial, but he was NEVER called as a witness. Did Fallon feel like Scott had done enough damage in Avery's trial? Probably.
Let's change gears, just for a moment.
By May 11th 2006, Fassbender and the gang were well aware of Bobby's hdd contents. So, was Kachinsky also given this information? Idk, but he damn well should have been told. In any event, when Kachinsky sent his attack dog in on Brendan it was to force him into a Plea Deal he clearly didn't want. This allowed them to arrange for Brendan to give another Lawyerless interview the following day.
One of our best contributors (think about M&M's) wrote a topic several months ago asking a simple question - WHY didn't Wiegert and Fassbender ask Brendan about the Salacious Porn on Bobby's PC? Weren't they the least bit curious of what Brendan knew about it? Were they afraid Brendan would tell them just how god damn weird Bobby was? I don't know, but it's clear they stayed WAY the fuck away from it. Ok, back to Barb.
October 24th 2017 Avery called Barb. Scott Tadych was present as well. Avery called her to discuss Brad's recent affidavit. This call was VERY TELLING. It also reinforced just how volatile Scott really is.
SA: Why is all this shit on the computer?
BJT: There was nothing on my fucking computer. All this - I didn't even have Internet back then.
SA: Yes you did.
BJT: No I didn't.
SA: What do you mean you didn't?
BJT: No, I didn't have Internet.
SA: You did.
BJT: No I didn't.
SA: At that time you did. Before that you did.
BJT: No I didn't.
SA: You didn't? -- Well, it's on the computer.
BJT: I did not have Internet.
SA: Well
BJT: Well nothing. I didn't.
As we all know, this is absolute garbage. Barb did have internet, and it was used, A LOT. But here she is trying to deny it, repeatedly. The question is, why? We know part of the answer, but not all of it.
Moving on to page 7, KZ begins talking about a trip to see Brendan at the Sheboygan Jail that Barb and Brad Dassey took. Barb told Brad that she had hired someone to "reformat" her home computer and wanted to know if reformatting would remove what was on it. She said she had done this RIGHT BEFORE LE seized the hard drive. OH REALLY?
Was she told that LE would be coming? Sure sounds that way to me. WHO would have told her? Of course we know whoever performed this reformatting failed miserably.
TIMING of events. There was so much shit happening in Avery's and then Dassey's cases Feb 2006 - June 2006.
Within two weeks of Avery's settlement, Brendan is arrested. ANYONE that believes that Brendan wasn't a PAWN for Kratz isn't paying full attention.
[MY SPECULATION] Barb and Scott KNOW far more than they've publicly admitted, I'm convinced of it. Too much happened that's been buried or simply unsaid. But pieces of truth are seeping through.
I know Scott Tadych was in a rage. I can't copy and paste from the pdf, had to snip it.
Timing of all these seemingly unrelated events have a connection. You don't see it in the series either.
Read the changes in Scott's early DCI Statements and compare them to later statements, compared to his court testimony.
WHEN did Barb give her FIRST statement to the DCI, and WHAT did she say? This matters (to me).
What ALL happened during the months of February - early June 2006?
Avery settles the civil suit. Hires Strang.
Something got said at Brendan's school 3.5 MONTHS after this events.
Wiegert and Fassbender go in for the kill on Brendan. They are relentless.
Brendan is arrested and Kratz fashions a scene of kidnapping, raping, mutilation, body burning a day later.
Bobby Dassey's hard drive is seized, revealing real depravity. NOTHING is done with it.
Timing of events MATTERS. I've only listed a small part of the events in this case. The questions I've posed deserve to be answered FOR Brendan, if not for her own brother.#MakingAMurderer #MakingAMurderer2 Now there going to be people try and tell you new folks that the computer was never in Bobby Dassey bedroom. Well here a video by police doing a walk through of his bedroom Nov 2005 pic.twitter.com/usBedzx1Wh— 😈The Real ☠️ Caper By'e😈 (@Shelthecaper) October 28, 2018
I didn't snip it, but Barb also talked about (in the phone call) Wiegert's personal involvement in getting her to move from the ASY. Aside from him being a LEO, is it me, or does it feel like he's afraid Barb will say something she shouldn't to Mom/Dad? WHY would he care where Barb lives? Seriously?
The Dassey PC Search warrant File. I believe I may have found out who warned Barb LE might be curious about the PC. Candy Avery. As in, if there's anything on that PC you don't want the cops to see, you better delete it?
Was this her, trying to get back at Steven, through Brendan? Wouldn't surprise me at all to find out that is was Candy talking on IM. SHE's the one that told LE about it. She HATES Steven.
Remember, TIMING of when Wendy Baldwin interviewed Marie Avery on January 27th 2006, then Wiegert's interview of Kayla Avery on February 20th 2006. He used Jodi to segway into this.
In Steven Avery's letter to Ken Kratz in June 2018, he wrote:
"You don't work for the State no more so why don't you take my appeal? You know the case and you got Candy Avery. See we can all get money together. This would be the truth that she Candy did it good. See you can call up here a [sic] talk to me as a [sic] Attorney on my case!!! action right? You and another attorney can take it right? Let me know soon."
[-]DJSupastarSarah
Body Language Expert weighs in on some of the videos I sent her.
Last week I emailed Traci Brown inviting her to group and asking her to give her expert opinion on a few videos I linked to her. I focused on videos featuring Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas considering I personally as well as others feel there is something more there behind their behavior. I will note that Traci has not watched the series yet.
Please visit her website to read more about Traci:
http://bodylanguagetrainer.com/
Here was her response:
Hi Sarah
I finally had the time to look at these videos. My comments are below:
http://wbay.com/2016/01/15/video-jan-19-2006-families-react-to-news-of-halbachs-remains/
There's nothing too unusual in this one with the fellow having the press conference. However, the woman (Candy Avery, Earl's wife) in the Avery family interviewed behind the door seemed a way too detached to be believable. I think she knows lots more than she's letting on about his guilt or innocence. She even said she was holding back but I think she knows part of the real truth of his involvement, maybe not the entire story.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/42dj6q/body_language_expert_traci_brown_weighs_in/
[–]MMonroe54
I believe I may have found out who warned Barb LE might be curious about the PC. Candy.
And how would Candy know? Did AC tell her? This is interesting as all get out!
Barb apparently doesn't keep track of what she says....or maybe even what she knows. That FB post, in direct contradiction to Bobby's testimony, is a bombshell.
[–]JJacks61[S]
"And how would Candy know? Did AC tell her? This is interesting as all get out!"
Possibly. They were friends. Did she find out, then it got to Earl and he told Barb? It's curious timing LOL.
That FB post, in direct contradiction to Bobby's testimony, is a bombshell.
I think so too. Perjured himself. Goes back to why would he do that?
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/8rnqxc/timing_of_statements_speculations_surrounding_bjt/
I think Dedering was told by DCI Agents, especially Fassbender, plus Wiegert, to only follow the trail so far and do not let the focus move away from Steven, write reports that focus on Steven, and if anything else points away from him, then write it as if it is a dead end.
[–]s_wardy_s
It may only be my opinion but Dedering was the henchman. He's the tall bulky guy that rocks up at you door, puts the fear of god into you, and makes you believe in shit you never thought possible...
But he's also very smart, very intelligent, he writes reports to cover and make the trails... He's the guy filling the KK gaps in the reports.
If you want a metaphor for Dedering then think "Men in Black meets any Jason Statham role..."
He Got Away With It Scot-Free (self.TickTockManitowoc)
by SBRH33
I will be open about it. I never liked ST's involvement in the Halbach Investigation.
And neither did Steve's defense...
He had a dark cloud hovering over him. And to be frank, he was actually not a very good dude. His court record and rap sheet speak for themselves to that regard
A year and change later and I am still convinced of his involvement in in the criminal case framing Steve Avery for murder... and it goes beyond him merely being the prosecutions hatchet man.
My initial impression of him after watching MaM back in 2015 was that he had a real "hands" on involvement with Halbach's disappearance... either helped cover up the truth or colluded with others to pin the crime on Steve Avery, either way. His behavior during the investigation and his trial testimony illuminates the principle that there is more to Scott than meets the eye or the ears it seems for that matter... As of today I feel much more convinced of it than ever.
ST had an intimate knowledge of the Avery property, he knew the day to day operations of the yard. He likely was familiar with the family schedules and what they did with their free time. He most certainly was familiar with Steve Avery...
The defense IMO had slyly shown a spotlight on ST as best they could without tripping the Kratz/court established 3rd PartyLiability clause... actually they did trip it a few times causing Kratz and Fallon great distress... but the defense got their jabs in quite effectively and did a fine job with ST's testimony given the atmosphere they had to contend with in that Calumet courtroom.
So without further ado... here is my Friday offering.
Scott Tadych
Mark Wiegert Testimony Day 18
In the testimony above MW testifies in open court that ST's alibi of going to Green Bay to visit his mother in the hospital was never checked out.
That's is an incredible admission. Who else did investigators not properly vet in this case? Basically everyone except Steven Avery.
Nevermind the fact that ST used this very alibi twice on October 31st.
The first time, to cover for his absence from work on that fateful day...
The second time, to get BJ off and far away from the Avery property during a most critical time frame in which the prosecution claims all of the "shackling, raping, slashing, choking, punching, shooting and burning" that was alleged to be transpiring 60ft from Barb's front door on October 31st 2005.
What I find striking is how MW corroborated ST's alibi of going up to Green Bay that day... was that he simply asked Scott's girlfriend Barb if it were true... and of course she says... "Yeaah."
Excellent investigative work there Mark:
- could have at the least call the hospital to verify Scotts claim
- could have visited the hospital to verify Scotts claim. MW, JD, and JP were all in Green Bay a few times during the investigation.
- could have called on Scott's mother and perhaps chatted her up?
Interestingly enough an investigator does bother to take a poke at ST to verify that he had taken off from work that day and, in that process, it is revealed some interesting things about ST [starting on CASO page 719]... Most dramatically, that he had tried to sell .22 rifle to a coworker the weeks following Halbach's disappearance. But, like everything surrounding ST in the Halbach investigation, nothing ever comes of it.
Mark's stumbling testimony as seen in the testimony log above illustrates IMO quite clearly that LE wasn't going to be doing too much investigate'n into Mr. ST ...or any of his alibi's he gave for October 31st 2005.
But it gets even more ridiculous the more you digging you do.
Gone Hunt'n
Oh, by the way, Scott, who can corroborate that "hunting expedition" you undertook at 3pm on October 31st?... "oh just ask Bobby, my girlfriend's son... he saw me driving west on 147 to go hunting... he was going to hunt in my back yard."
Notice the pattern? The trinity of Barb, Bobby and Scott covering for each other.
Bye Bye Double Alibi
ST sandwiches some hunting time in between his two trips to Green Bay on the 31st of October 2005. His timing for his hunting expedition couldn't have been better... because he gets an important alibi from the only verifiable person to ever see him at all that day up to that point. Bobby D.
On one hand you have Bobby coming east on 147 from Avery Auto Salvage after supposedly just seeing Halbach in his driveway, and then you have Scott headed west on 147 in the direction of the salvage yard entrance, where Halbach should be pulling out onto 147, headed west toward Larabee ... as Steve Avery stated in his interview.
The two, as they pass each other, apparently have a moment of telekinesis... where they both know just where the other is headed without ever speaking to one another that day at all.
What is bothersome about this particular alibi is the fact that Scott was never asked exactly where he went hunting that afternoon... Or was he asked? ....just not directly so.
Bobby is in Scott's backyard hunting. But where is Scott? He isn't on any tangible radar so to speak. And in that very same sense neither is Bobby technically.
Without a third party to verify Scott and Bobby's Double Alibi it really becomes meaningless and unusable.
No one really knows for certain where either of them really were that Halloween afternoon.
For all anyone knows they could have gone to the Radandt Quarry and Deer Camp.
This is extremely alarming. Why did they have to Alibi each other if they didn't do anything criminal? The reason the Alibi was so flimsy in the first place is because it was a lie. And it wasn't even a good one. And I think everyone who had watched MaM for the first time I am certain every single persons reaction to the double alibi was.... "Yea freaking right, BS!"
Both men had their credibility completely neutered by the defense and it reads powerfully in the trial transcripts.
Barb's Falsified Alibi
...For the record, falsifying an Alibi is a criminal offense and punishable by law...
She Spent The Night
Did Scott give Dedering A False Alibi For Barb?
She Slept At Home
Or is Scott lying to Law Enforcement twice?
Why did Scott Alibi Barb away from the property on the night of October 31st in his statement with CASO's Dedering? Was it because it would have been obvious to Barb that Avery didn't have a "10ft Bonfire in the pit" that night. And if Steve did... then surely it would have been noticed by Barb and the rest of the Dassey boys.
Why did Kratz insist that Barb slept at home October 31st? Was it that he needed her there with Brendan to help fortify Brendan's confessions later at his trial?
It all just does not add up.
The Trinity
The Jandych's
Barb was once an Avery
Barb has four kids with Peter Dassey: Bryan, Bobby, Blaine and Brendan
Then married Tom Janda.
Barb starts up with Scott ...who is her current husband's cousin.
Barb is now officially a Tadych.
Dizzy yet? You should be.
I once read that Tom Janda had a hustle shot with Teresa on the ASY in the months before her disappearance... Strange if true. Now we have his cousin Scott kicking around the ASY with Barb, Tom's wife, in the months before Teresa's disappearance.
We have Scott continuously pointing the finger at Steve for the disappearance of Teresa. We have Scott seemingly being shielded from the investigation by Law Enforcement... Particularly the DCI.
We have Scott convincing Barb that Brendan should be questioned by investigators.
In the end we have Scott having the best day of his life and is thrilled that Avery "got what he had coming to him."
With Scott's Double Alibi with Bobby dismantled... serious questions begin to bubble to the surface. In particular those latent prints lifted from that RAV4 found on the ASY.
The latent prints indexed from the RAV4 were compared to the standards from everyone that was present on the ASY on October 31st 2005.
Everyone except one person. That's right. Scott.
He was there twice that day and he was very careful to testify that he never ever got out of his green Ford Ranger.
Scott has a decent criminal record. His print standards are all ready available at the Sheriff's Office.
Like Steve Avery proclaimed... "The truth always comes out in the end"
[–]SBRH33[S]
Yes. I have read on all sorts of depraved and criminal acts done to children by their parents.
In defense of Barb.... I think Scott was a... pressure cooker. One with a short fuse and a fast fist.
In fact that very "domestic" behavior is outlined in his arrest records.
But to clarify my belief in the matter.
I don't think Brendan was supposed to go to Jail. The State-Kratz needed Brendan to testify against Steve to give the sentence an air tight lid. When Brendan recanted and more importantly refused Kratz's plea offer... only then did Kratz bring the full weight of the State down upon him. When Barb says Brendan always tells her to blame Mark for everything... What she is saying is Mark most likely was reassuring Barb the entire time that Brendan wasn't going to go to jail for very long if they stuck to the script. But the plan went off of the rails. Fassbender tried to quarterback the plan by urging Scott to have Barb convince Brendan to take that plea deal. But by the time of Brendan's trial.... IMO Barb wasn't willing to go through with it. She knew it was all one big lie. Especially after watching what happened to Steve in the courtroom weeks earlier. She was rightly pissed off at everyone.
[–]lmogier
Let's not forget the last or second to last episode with DA, Barb, plus other(s), where DA mentions how Mr "3 different conflicting alibis" Scott told Barb that LEO told him to make sure BD took the plea deal he was offered. And that what he did on Oct 31st changed in all 3 of his statements. And that smear in the courtroom along with his disgusting statement after SA's conviction.
[–]Nexious
An excellent post. As a follow-up here also is my summary of the differing narratives Scott offered between 2005 and 2007:
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/71m2uu/summary_of_scott_ts_interviews_and_statements/
He goes from having nothing of substance to say about any fire (relying only on Barb's recollection that it was three feet high and that he thought nothing of it) to suddenly claiming the fire was the most memorable event of 10/31 as it was a roaring inferno the height of the garage. He changes the stories of who was outside, where and when, what time Barb was home or gone, what time he saw Bobby (shifting his timeline to before three come trial to more precisely match the state's narrative)...
Yesterday Barb nonchalantly mentioned that "they got Scott to bring me to the restaurant to try to get me to go by Brendan and tell him to take a plea bargain."
So they were literally working against Brendan and Barb through Scott, and he seemingly was cooperating with their requests.
Also we know from the JR affidavit that the investigators did what they could to inflate the size of the fire. I have no doubt this was the case with Scott as well to make it the centerpiece of his testimony, to implant in the jurors' minds the picture of Avery and Brendan standing around a 10 foot high fire with Teresa's body burning to ash.
Scott was described in very derogatory terms by coworkers... With one labeling him "a psycho" who "screams a lot" and "could be very capable of the murder or knowing something more." Another who said Scott was "acting weird and not himself." Scott also rambled to coworkers about the case, including about Brendan's stained jeans, only to eventually concede he really wasn't sure he actually saw the stains or just heard about them (after 3/1).
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/6020wd/he_got_away_with_it_scotfree/
Breaking into SA's trailer home (SA affidavit) (self.TickTockManitowoc)
by S_Hollmes
I'm a little confused. SA states he left the back door open Wed night (Nov 3rd), but also reports pry marks on the frame in his affidavit. Was there one break in? Or several break ins - one through open door, one later, when door was locked?
Also, when exactly did he smell cigarette smoke in his trailer?
[–]dogiggy
In the affadivit he mentions the officers asking to search the trailer on the morning of 11/4, they searched and then he locked it and left for work, and immediately follows up that he smelled cigarette smoke on 11/4.
He says he thought it was weird because he nor Jodi smoked and thought it meant someone was in his trailer, probably assuming LE wouldn't smoke in his trailer and that he mentioned that in an interview previously.
[–]dogiggy
He said he observed the pry marks on 11/5. He smelled the smoke Nov 4, the same day the two police officers in an unmarked car asked to search his trailer and he let them. I think it makes sense one of the officers may have been a smoker, or smoked in there, or the planter may have. If someone is a heavy smoker or just recently smoked leaving a lingering scent, a non-smoker would smell it immediately.
[–]dark-dare
You cannot prove there was a smoker in the trailer that day, however, the fact SA says this without prompting, at the time of the incident, and backed by a missing toothbrush, and marks on the door jam, and references missing blood from his sink, does make it a valid argument. He says it multiple times to multiple sources. It certainly speaks to reasonable doubt.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/6hfkcu/breaking_into_sas_trailer_home_sa_affidavit/
by Chad Keller
The Wisconsin Department of Criminal Investigations (DCI) reports taking the Janda residence computer hard drive on April 21, 2006. Former DCI Special Agent Thomas Fassbender’s report clearly states the computer forensics wasn’t ran until the following day, on April 22nd.
More than a week earlier, on April 10, 2006, we have the following exchange taking place between former Prosecutor Ken Kratz and Attorney Dean Strang:
Two questions Zellner should be asking herself in regard to this exchange:
1) Where is a copy, in full, of the the April 5, 2006, letter from Strang to Kratz, and what does it detail?
2) What is the importance of asking for the Janda Residence computer hard drive on April 5th, if it won’t even be investigated until the 22nd? (It appears as if both parties oddly have insight into the information already on this hard drive.)
Now, for the record, Dean Strang didn’t just send Kratz a letter and then it was magically forgotten about.
Dean Strang was at Barb Janda’s home on the very same day that DCI showed up, on Friday, April 21st, trying to get the hard drive in person. There’s recorded proof Strang was there. Play the video below starting at 13:30-14:05.
Dean @ Barb’s April 21st (Steven Avery's jail phone calls published by BM on Mar 1, 2016)
It was so important to get this hard drive, that we even hear Steven Avery knowing that the hard drive was going to be retrieved before the state ever tests it on April 22nd.
https://productionsouth.wordpress.com/2017/12/23/dean-strang-at-barbs-to-get-dassey-hard-drive-same-day-as-dci-solid-proof/
Important Little Reminders & Just A Coincidence? (self.TickTockManitowoc)
by Eric_eats_a_Banana
On April 3, 2006, the public defender's office approved Michael O'Kelly to perform Dassey's polygraph exam for $350 (O'Kelly was not a certified polygraph examiner nor a licensed investigator in Wisconsin).
The same day, Kachinsky also forwarded O'Kelly a copy of Brendan's criminal complaint. O'Kelly reviewed the criminal complaint and made some notes about it in preparation for the polygraph exam, although he didn't remember doing so on the stand.
On April 11, 2006, O'Kelly had a phone conference with Kachinsky about the polygraph exam and its perceived urgency (planned for Easter day).
On April 16, 2006 (Easter Sunday) O'Kelly conducted the polygraph exam with Brendan at jail. O'Kelly setup his polygraph equipment and then turned a video recorder on and alerted the jail personnel that he was ready for Brendan. Note that O'Kelly never handed over the video of this polygraph exam and claimed to not have it as of 2010. O'Kelly said the same about other materials being lost or missing and therefore unavailable for Brendan's defense counsel. All of this is quoted from Nexious's linked post, MoK's expenses form has April 9th 2006, as the polygraph date but I think that is an error by MoK because Nexious does his homework when posting
By April 20, O'Kelly's role in the Dassey case evolved from a Polygraphist to an investigator. O'Kelly also went to Kratz's office to review photos/discovery this day (quoted from Nexious's post). It is obvious reading through the two posts linked at the very top of this post, that even by April 20th, MoK is looking for evidence against Steven Avery and if that evidence implicates Brendan then that is good because it confirms his involvement and makes him truthful and easier to get a plea deal for!
MoK meets with with lots of people, lots of times! On April 21st 2006 he calls Barb, Scott T and Mike K. Mike K is Blaine's boss and calls the Dassey household on October 31st 2005 at around 5:30-5:45pm (the state try to push this call to 6pm at trial) to speak to Blaine, however, Blaine is out trick or treating and it is Brendan who Mike K ends up speaking to.
Later on April 21st MoK then interviews Barb in person.
Still On April 21, 2006
Fassbender and Wiegert obtain a warrant and go to the Dassey trailer to seize their computer. The warrant names Fassbender only, I believe the warrant is a DCI warrant because it is not listed in the "Warrants" section of the case files nor is it mentioned at all anywhere in the CASO report, nor is there anything mentioned in CASO leading up to or after April 21st that gives a reason for seizing the computer or that it has been seized.
The warrant states the reason for seizing the computer is because both Candy and Marie Avery say they have talked to Brendan via instant messaging about the crime, Brendan using the "nigerforlife" screen name. I can only assume both of these chats with Candy and Marie were done with DCI agents as there is nothing in CASO about this until LE interview Brendan again on 05/13/2006 and ask him about talking about the crime online.
Fassbender's search warrant for Dassey computer:
[(http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Amended-Supplement-to-Previously-Filed-Motion-for-Reconsideration.pdf)] (begins page 32)
However a later DCI report which is not written until 12/07/2006, names Wiegert as being involved in executing the warrant.
The long gap from April 21st 2006 to December 7th 2006 is very interesting because in December 2006 Buting and Strang were working on getting ready for Steven's trial.
[(https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-FbC6qJwDACWK3OF_8v6siwHHr9GkGQL5PcxZTnsUEo/edit#gid=0)]
So the computer is seized on April 21st.
Remember there are at least two new affidavits that confirm Barb hired someone to "reformat" the computer to "get rid of the porn so nobody can find what is on there" (paraphrasing).
Therefore we can be certain that by the date the computer was seized, at least some of the family knew or suspected what was on it.
April 22, 2006
On April 22, O'Kelly spoke with the Dassey family and took notes of so-called strategy ideas. He alleged that most of these ideas came from the Dassey family themselves, and his written notes included:
- Mom (Barb) asked defendant to fire [Kachinsky]
- All agreed that if we can get defendant to turn--do it.
- Obtain detailed crime scene information from defendant.
- Suggest we open dialog with prosecutor how to turn State's [evidence]
- Email Attorney.
- Form to be used for confession.
- Mitigation use.
- Barb J provided mitigation information.
MoK meets many of the Dasseys, Scott Tadych, Mike K, and many LE officers before this next date (you can check them out in Nexious's linked post, including two sets of handwritten notes by MoK).
May 11, 2006
Mike Velie provides Fassbender with his detailed report regarding the Dassey computer contents.
May 12, 2006
MoK interviews or calls Bobby, Fassbender and Dedering.
May 13, 2006
Brendan "confesses" to Fassbender and Wiegert again, this time with even more information.
All of the above may well be a coincidence, or it may be a possible sign some members of the Dassey family decided to throw Brendan to the wolves because of what was on that computer.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/8ymmx6/important_little_reminders_just_a_coincidence/
"Next thing I could see was she arguing with a man (remember: there were two men with her by the time she was killed). This man was a young one, in his 30’s, not beyond 40’s. He could be aggressive, and was a troubled person, complicated, with issues, nor regular at works, wearing this white shirt, and sometimes I saw him wearing a black leather jacket. I saw his white skin, long face, big forehead, short hair, little eyes. He was after her for sure, and she knew him. He was not a stranger, he was not a serial killer, Teresa didn’t killed herself. So suddenly he started to get agitated and punched her, they fought. And then I couldn’t see more until later in that night. My guess is that she got unconscious. By the way: when I was seeing them fight, Teresa’s spirit appeared and pointed out to the man and said “It was him, he killed me!” – and I know who he is for I sensed and saw him very clearly in this vision and recognized him on Making a Murderer episodes." [Nova The Psychic]
"The boys [Bobby and Blaine] in the picture. Wow. This is heartbreaking. I just feel and keep hearing 'they had no choice.' There was no choice in the matter. One knew this and took his knocks (the angry one). He [Bobby] is angry at sad man [Steven Avery]. He is angry at mustache man [Scott Tadych]. He is angry at the whole damn situation. The mustache man [Scott Tadych] in the next picture…he is lying as well. I also feel he is a witness to seeing people or cars or things that place people and objects at certain places at certain times. He also feels like he was at the crime scene…so a cop as well or something to do with that. He just feels to me what people call a 'used car salesman' type of demeanor. A slick talker and a yes man. Has no real backbone. Goes with what he is told and thinks he is much smarter and craftier than what he really is. I feel he was offered something. Someone came to him and said, 'It is in your best interest if this goes this way and here is why…and can we count you in?' Promises were made and some of those have to do with the positions in this family. There is a lot of resentment towards 'sad man' and a whole lot of 'you don’t deserve to be still reaping the benefits' kind of stuff. There were a lot hoping this sad man stayed gone? They were happy about him being gone? I actually feel Mustache Man knew the woman that was murdered too. On the telephone…speaking…like he set something up or was part of that whole thing. I just went back through…Mustache Man! I see Mustache Man doing this. He was at the crime scene. He was working with them. He is dumb enough for this placement too. I literally see him planting this blood in his goofy and cocky way… excited as if he had been given an assignment by the big guys to be a 'real' cop! Like a boy." [Amy The Clairvoyant]
"All the Dassey Boys are targeted. One will be chosen as Uncle Steve’s accomplice. Remember, however you look at it, this is NOT about who wanted Teresa dead. This is who wanted Steven Avery framed. You can’t frame Steven Avery unless you kill Teresa Halbach. The MONEY TRAIL shows the evidence that this is the only motive for Teresa’s death. Who was close to the Avery Salvage Yard that the state could depend on? Unfortunately, they had no choice but to bring Brendan Dassey in. But, they were only going to give him 15 years. Was that new house worth it to Barb and Scott in the end? Scott Tadych & Judge Foxx, you both have a lot to answer for." [Source]
"The problem in the post-conviction world is there are so many procedural hurdles... We had an agreement with the state to do an evidentiary hearing. They thought it would last four weeks, and we were going to have it in the spring of 2018. And then the judge just arbitrarily dismissed our petition. And that’s going to be part of the appeal—that we should be granted an evidentiary hearing... The longest one I’ve ever had pending was in Missouri, Ryan Ferguson’s case, but that was only four years. We got the hearing, the witnesses admitted they had committed perjury in that one, the trial judge denied release, and we had to get release from the appellate court... We’re in the process of appealing it [Steven Avery's case] to the appellate court, and that’s where most convictions are overturned across the country. Our appellate brief, which has all of these theories, all of this scientific evidence—the record’s 30,000 pages—is due on December 20... The only possibility, I think, for Brendan Dassey—he would have to come back to the lower court, in the state court of Wisconsin, with new scientific evidence to try to dispute the validity of the confession. That’s why what we’ve developed may ultimately help him... I think eventually, you can almost shame people into doing the right thing. Trust me, I will outlast them. I have incredible endurance for these things! I’m not going away. I’m like a bad recurring dream. [Kathleen Zellner, The Daily Beast, October 2018]
KZ is not pointing the finger at BoD and ST—the facts are.... (self.TickTockManitowoc)
by MnAtty
November 9, 2018
Quite a while ago, I wrote about how I thought BoD and ST were at the very heart of Teresa's murder case:
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/8xkqc0/i_saw_you_and_you_saw_me_said_the_hunters/
My feeling at the time, was that the prosecution seemed to build a case that made BoD and ST into central witnesses. I suspected the prosecution had only done this because BoD and ST actually WERE involved in the murder, and the prosecution was trying to EXPLAIN AWAY their involvement. Kratz wove his prosecution theory around them, to make it appear that they only happened to be right in the middle of everything, because of their unfortunate timing.
I was most perplexed by how the topic of deer hunting had become so important to the prosecution. There were deer hunting schedules, deer hunting camps, deer as roadkill, dogs signaling on deer blood, etc. I mean, what was this obsession with deer? Was Kratz trying to appeal to the deer hunting crowd?
Then a few days ago, I wrote an opinion about indelible cuts seen on Teresa's pelvic bones. KZ's expert had estimated the grooves were hacksaw sized.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/9tr8ra/teresas_legs_were_cut_off/
I linked readers to a deer butchering video, where the first thing the hunter does is saw into the pelvic bones, as part of the field dressing process ("field" dressing referring to on-the-spot dismemberment).
I don't know if anyone noticed, but I didn't even make reference to BoD or ST in that opinion. I was only thinking about the dismemberment. I hadn't really considered the question of WHO had done it.
But over the next two days of discussion, it became apparent that BoD and ST may be the only likely candidates for the dismemberment scenario. They had the skills to do it, and they were associated with the murder mystery from the beginning. They even testified, at length, about their deer hunting activities, somehow working an accusation against Steven Avery into the story. I’m kind of surprised now, that the prosecution managed to make them look so innocent.
I guess it’s part of the problem with the trust we place in our legal institutions. We want to believe a prosecutor would never negotiate with the actual murderer, offering freedom from prosecution, in exchange for perjured testimony against a shared adversary. Such a prosecutor would deserve to be stripped of his authority.
And as it turns out, Kratz was removed from office only a few years later, based partly on his own admission of impaired judgment, because of illegal opioid use. So right there, you have your answer. Absolutely, Kratz could have made this deal.
I don’t think KZ is attempting to create an alternative suspect in Teresa’s Halbach’s murder. We have to realize that there must be an alternative person responsible for Teresa’s murder, since it is not Steven Avery.
KZ isn’t playing up suspicion of BoD and ST. The unfortunate truth is that evidence of BoD’s and ST’s involvement in the crime has always been there. It is only becoming more apparent over time, as the actual facts of the case emerge.
[–]JJacks61
If we put a pin in the deer hunting aspect, even briefly, their story falls apart.
I never bought the double alibi. The Founder (IIRC) destroyed Bobby's location description where he allegedly saw ST.
When KZ got Bobby's phone records and exposed his location, this created another major issue that cannot be easily explained. It also proved his statements and testimony were pure fabrications.
I don't know if he was involved with what happened to Teresa, but people only LIE to cover up. He also lied about just getting up right when Teresa arrived. PC records prove he was up earlier.
Another thing that I find interesting is Bobby worked 3rd shift. I worked night shift for years, and it's no different than working dayshift. You still gotta sleep. Based on his accounting of October 31st, he barely slept at all. Idk, maybe he worked somewhere that he could slip off and hide, catch some Z's. I never had that option lol.
Enough cannot be said about what was found on that PC and how Kratz kept it away from the defense, all the while prepping Bobby as a star witness. It is a perversion of his authority as Prosecutor, and he damn well knows it.
He says nothing relevant was found on that PC.
He hands over the Avery and Halbach CD analysis.
He KEEPS Bobby's PC analysis.
I guess it’s part of the problem with the trust we place in our legal institutions. We want to believe a prosecutor would never negotiate with the actual murderer, offering freedom from prosecution, in exchange for perjured testimony against a shared adversary. Such a prosecutor would deserve to be stripped of his authority.What is truly bothersome is the diabolical way he went about this. This took some pretty detailed thought and planning. This happened by design. Holding that CD for 7 months is all the proof we need.
His intent is clear to me. He misrepresented virtually everything, and manipulated the system to benefit his case. Isn't the Prosecutor responsible for making sure the Defendant's rights are protected as well?
I got off on a rant to really prove your point. Without a doubt all these references to deer hunting was to further manipulate people's perceptions.
A few words here and there makes it easy for an authority figure to completely change a narrative. And because many of us are taught and expect these people in trusted positions to be honest, we want to believe them. In this case, it was a mistake.
Kratz manipulated pretty much everything he could in these cases.
The most credible theory I have seen so far (self.MakingaMurderer)
by Jaypact
January 14, 2016
This is a theory I saw on a Youtube comment and I had to share it...
[–]SBRH33
I am the author of the theory outlined above. Granted it is poorly written and has holes of its own, but it is just a theory. I wrote it in a stream of consciousness after watching someones youtube channel regarding the Avery case. I wrote it soon after binge watching MAM and becoming slightly obsessed with what I watched unfold in the documentary. This lead me to dig around the internet and explore Reddit, which lead me to some interesting youtube channels.
There was a lot of information tossed at the viewer while watching MAM and I did my best to follow along in every jaw dropping episode and some of the smaller minutia escaped my comprehension.
I will stand by my assumption that the police did not have in anyway anything to do with T.H's. disappearance and murder.
I will also stick by my assumptions regarding the involvements of Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey for the commission of T.H's disappearance and subsequent murder.
I will add that, regardless of everything, it is a real possibility that Avery himself is responsible, and I've gone back and forth with the thought. But Avery always without a doubt remained steadfast in his innocence. For me that's powerful. Especially the fact that he plowed his settlement money straight into his defense against the murder charge instead of leaving it to his ailing parents. Guilty people just don't do that.
I recommend watching MAM a second time to anyone interested in doing so. A second viewing definitely helped me sift through some of the minutia more skillfully and with clearer understanding of the facts which were presented.
Ryan Hillegas, I believe, definitely knows something about what happened to T.H. and plays some role in the RAV4 being on the Avery property in some way. Since he wasn't vetted properly by investigators, we will perhaps never know exactly what his role may have been. We do know that his behaviors were more than suspect. I believe now that he accessed T.H's Cingular account at 8am on Nov. 3rd, the time that Cingular documented the call log gap occurring in T.H's voicemail inbox. He did this before meeting Mike Halbach, Mr Halbach and Scott Bloedorn at T.H's house on the afternoon of Nov.3rd.
Ryan erased something obviously incriminating on her voicemail early that morning and then cleverly covered it up by pretending to guess her passwords in front of Mr Hallbach, Mike and Scott that afternoon. When they all listened to her voicemails together, they obviously didn't hear what Ryan had already disposed of, but what they did hear was the fact that her last appointment for work that day was at the Avery Salvage Yard, thus pointing the way there.
It is extremely poor investigative work that Ryan's timeline and movements from Oct 30th thru Nov 3rd were not accounted for and vetted. That being said, it is Ryan Hillegas that sparked off the entire missing person episode by ringing the alarm that T.H. was, in fact, missing. It wasn't her dad, or her brother Mike, or even her roommate Scott Bloedorn. It was Ryan, calling everyone, asking if they had heard from or had seen T.H. A spurned lover is always a good source of motive in a commission of a crime of passion.
I will stick by my theory that Colborn located that RAV4 early and was in contact with it by either finding it in the quarry, or on the Avery property. Either way, he had contact with it. There is no doubt he called in T.H's plate number. He was dumbfounded that the defense's investigator located that dispatch call. He was caught red handed and couldn't formulate a reason for it, so he stone walled it by invoking the old "I do not recall" defense.
Colborn's hands were all over that investigation. For instance, when the RAV4 key is found in Avery's bedroom, there is a clear crime scene picture of that key laying on the floor between Avery's slippers and the bookcase. Colborn testified that the key fell out of the bookcase after shaking the the bookcase every which way. But you look at the crime scene photo, the contents of the bookcase are in perfect order and the bookcase is squarely flush against the wall... Is Colborn trying to say he shook the bookcase, the RAV4 key fell out, then he neatly placed everything back onto the bookcase and put the bookcase back against the wall flush.... and then take the photograph of the RAV4 key evidence.? That's just absurd.
I won't go further because it is very clear that Manitowoc County Sheriffs manufactured the physical evidence they themselves supplied the prosecution. Never once did Calumet County ever supply one iota of evidence.
However, I will revise my theory about the RAV4 key and its origin. I do not think the key was left in the RAV4. I do believe it was the RAV4 valet key, and it was T.H's spare. In fact T.H's keys were never found. I do believe that key came from her house. Someone supplied Manitowoc that key, and I will surmise that perhaps Ryan Hillegas and or Mike Halbach had something to do with that... The source of the key we may never know. But I think a few people do.
There is a scene near the end of Episode 8 after Steven Avery is convicted of the Teresa Halbach murder. It's a scene where Jerome Buting is at the Avery house talking with Dolores and some other family members about the conviction and what not, and Dolores mentions that "Scotty" (Scott Tadych) was contacted by investigator Fassbender.... and investigator Fassbender tells Scott Tadych to convince Barb Janda to tell Brendan to take the plea deal. The plea deal offered was 15 years, plus 15 years probation. Barb Janda dismisses Scott Tadych's advice and tells Brendan to not take the plea deal. I missed this the first time that I watched MAM, and it's an easy scene to miss.
The implication of this is not lost on Jerome Buting. ......We have Fassbender asking Tadych to convince Barb into directing Brendan to take the plea deal.... If Brendan takes that plea deal, he admits to his guilt and involvement to the crime in open court, and that would cement the prosecution's versions of what happened to T.H., and it essentially becomes an open and shut case. No serious appeals would be heard, no help, no nothing. There might not even be a MAM documentary. The Avery/Dassey case would have just become a Wisconsin history footnote. That Fassbender/Tadych phone call is something to think about.
The case has many troubling factors and inconsistencies. This is why I will stay vested with my double frame theory. It's the only possible scenario that links all of the unrelated pieces together.
Scott Tadych and Bobby should have been investigated fully by authorities. It's more than possible they pulled off the murder of Halbach and the sloppy dumping of her cremains in Avery's pit to cover their tracks. I am certain they were the only two who could have got close to Avery's burn pit since his guard dog Bear was chained between the pit and the garage. Bear knew who Scott and Bobby were... Bear was familiar with them.
As far as Lenk and Coborn and Remiker are concerned, well it's clear they were as dirty as they come. I think MAM asserts that well.
It will be interesting to see what lies ahead with Kathleen Zellner handling the Avery case now. I feel she will get to the very bottom of it all in a very surgical manner. And this has Kratz, Colborn and Lenk probably very worried. I feel like their house of cards are going to finally fall under the weight of some very heavy duty scrutiny.
Brendan's Habeas Corpus motion is being reviewed, and I think it will be accepted and his sentence will eventually be vacated. The unfortunately supreme injustice of this case is not ever knowing what happened to Teresa Halbach. That may very well remain a mystery.
[–][deleted]
Some one could tell her they have another car there at the quarry and she should drive over to get the pictures.
That someone murders her there and burns the remains there.
That some one is mad at some one with a lot of money coming to them.
And because they won't be seeing any of that, set some one up for the fall by driving the RAV4 in Avery territory and dumping burnt bones in the Avery burn pit.
Just saying.
[–]TheCCTrio
Or...
Mike/Ryan had already done the deed, but told the cops that it was/or they suspected SA (which I'm sure they happily accepted with little question). So the sheriff gave them his personal line because Mike/Ryan were going to go "find evidence", when really they were setting things up. Again, I'm sure the cops were happy to comply. This way they would be removed, but still in control.
Once Mike/Ryan finally had everything in place, they call in the RAV4 that they "found".
As for Bobby and Scott, they just really might hate SA so much that they were willing to say anything to control the situation and feel power over him. Did whatever it took to get SA out of their lives for good. And they weren't worried about being caught off guard during trial (unlike Mike/Ryan on Salvage Search Day), because they knew they weren't guilty of anything, except deeply loathing SA.
But, just another theory on the pile :)
[–]Dr_hu2u
Excellent post. I think the double frame theory makes sense.
Ten years ago I would have thought it impossible the cops would do the killing, but seen too many police shootings to be sure. But this seems most likely.
I imagine SA was getting insufferable talking about all the money he would get, and how things were going to change when he owned the business.
I doubt anybody could leave that compound without getting a close inspection by cops which may have lead to DUIs and tickets, when they normally wouldn't be bothered. Besides, it seems some of ladies were heading Steve's way, and mothers and others were likely to be tired of it.
Steve would be talking endlessly of his important friends and the law named for himself. Poor bastard, it's likely that many people inside and outside of Avery-ville wished SA would go back to a cell. As soon as he filed that lawsuit I was thinking "LEAVE THE AREA NOW".
I can easily see Scott and Bobby wanting to get rid of Steve. Since Teresa was known to hustle photo jobs, it would have been easy to flag her down and ask her to take pictures of equipment at the quarry.
Hunting provided a good cover, and by going opposite directions on 147, one of them would be in position to flag her down and lead her to the quarry, where other would be waiting. This explains the lack of DNA/blood in SA's trailer and the reason body was cremated, which always seemed puzzling.
The would have jumped to suspect SA in an instant, and I suspect it was a big shock to cops who found nothing in his trailer, and would have thought he's going to get away again. It's much easier to to frame someone you know is guilty.
[–][deleted]
Scott or Janda could have asked Steve to make those calls for them.
[–]DemWorblesDo
Tadych was likely jealous of Avery, and he probably had been watching Halbach for a few months.
Halbach had come to the property many times. Avery may even have had a thing for her like people suggest.
Tadych knew his girlfriend, Avery's sister Barb, was selling her van.
Bobby even claimed to have seen her through his window.
So, Tadych and Bobby knew she was there that day and could have been planning on assaulting her for a while. Tadych was also nervous at work, leaving work early, mentioned something about blood on clothes, was trying to sell a .22 caliber rifle to co-workers, etc, etc all during the investigation.
It was his girlfriend's burn barrel that bone fragments and TH's destroyed equipment was found it. Also, I could see them pulling out the bigger bones of the original burn barrel because they were too heavy, maybe even planning on scattering or disposing of the bones in another way; and when they saw Avery's remains of his fire pit, with all the scrap and tires, they decided to just sloppily dump them in there, not knowing of a better solution, and also because it was Avery's burn pit, not there's.
I really like this theory. One of them could have grabbed and saved the bullet, or gone back and found it because they knew exactly where to look for it, and they could have easily put it in the garage (not the police) and told the cops where to find it.
Scott was happy that SA was convicted and anything that helped convict SA would help him remain free. Finding and/or planting the bullet was likely done by a very scared murderer who needed to see SA go down.
[–]VolatileJellyBean
I have an overwhelming sense that this theory could be true. I'd love for people to poke some holes in it. Scott and/or Bobby may have been eyeing off TH for a while or it could have been impulsive, but before she left or just after she gave SA the auto trader and said good bye, ST flagged her down and attacked her. I feel they may have knocked her out and thrown her in the back of her own car (explains the bloody hair marks). Then ST/BD took her somewhere, raped her and shot her in the head. They then took her to the quarry to burn the body. They would have left her car (stupidly) in the salvage yard and tried to cover it up until they could destroy it later on.
Colborn was trespassing and found the car on SA's property and called it in to confirm it was TH's car. He then hid the plates in the trunk of a wrecked car (to cover that he couldn't have been reading straight off the number plate). I think Colborn informed Lt Lenk, and they saw it as the perfect opportunity to get rid of SA for good.
At some point before (or maybe even after) the search party found the car, they extracted some blood from the vial and planted it. I think that given the amount of time they had on the property, they had a lot of opportunity to fix up the rest of the evidence bit by bit, planting the key, the bullet and moving the cremains.
I think maybe Brendan overheard or saw something between ST/BD and after being broken down he pieced together what he knew/heard with what they were coercing him to say.
I also think RH is shady. Maybe he was the one calling her all the time. Maybe he got TH's brother to help him get rid of some voicemails, as they'd been abusive; and with TH missing, he didn't want to become a suspect.
Also ST and Bobby are each other's alibi!? How convenient! Also, I remember someone pointed out that ST had a history of abusing females and, also, BoD took a shower before and AFTER going 'hunting'.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/40xtpo/the_most_credible_theory_i_have_seen_so_far/?st=JO17U6FY&sh=68c13b11
Related:
- SA letter to KK, CA's involvement, and what was Classic_Griswald right about???
- Timeline of those in the vicinity of Avery's during Teresa's captivity and screams (2:45-6:30 p.m.)
- How far does the silence go??
- Raise The Hand: Am I My Brothers keeper?
- WLUK.com website news articles 2006
- BLOOD (not so) SIMPLE
- The Bonfire timeline
- Evidence shared with media
- Dead/Missing/Framed
Classy Scott. Glad we saw the real side of you in this post and the phone call to Steven and not the “jolly good stepdad” act you tried to play in MaM 2. #MakingAMurderer @ZellnerLaw pic.twitter.com/xoP2Sdiu2l— Andy Newton (@AndyNewtonTT) October 23, 2018
[–][deleted]
ReplyDeleteI was having a discussion with my dad last night about PrimaK. Turns out my grandpa married a woman named Patsey f. who lived in the maribel area; also raised dogs. I'm trying to find out if she knew this Primak aka Eva s. She also came off odd to my dad when he was visiting them. Patsey would shoot birds and rabbits from the kitchen table using a .22 through the open window where they had a bird feeder setup.
My father told me when he was younger with my grandpa they would go to the avery yard. The Averies always had german shepherds. My dad recalls that one german shepherd was very aggressive and mean. They had to keep that dog chained up at all times. Maybe Avery bought dogs from Primak. There is a high possibility.
I'm trying to get my dad to write up what he knows of the Maribel area. He told me the area is rather strange to start with. Lots of hill billy type folks. All the way down to the stereo typical bib overalls. There was a family he knew out there; well two brothers and a woman. The brothers shared the woman to say the least.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/3yvro2/what_happened_to_primak_and_amplee/
[–][deleted]
Turns out my grandpa was renting an apt to gregory allen at the time of mrs.bernstein's rape. He lived at 524 n 5th street. My uncle told me Gregory Allen would play the song that has the words "you may be right I may be crazy but it just may be a lunatic you're looking for".
Now it gets even more weird for me with my step aunt Patsy who is Robert Fabians Mom (my grandpa if it wasn't apparent married her). Patsy fabian would shoot birds from the kitchen table using a .22 caliber rifle. This was in upper michigan. I have talked to Robert fabian on the phone after my grandpa died because I needed to pick up some family belongings. My dad recalls back in 2010-2011 when he was living there before my grandpa passed; that patsy acted strange when they talked about the avery situation. Don't witch hunt here because i'm talking with my uncles and my aunts. Seven total to pick their brains. This is all hitting so close to home now. I think a trip back to that shitty town might be needed. At least to hit up the maribel location that was dug up. Maybe snap some pictures. I don't know if contacting robert is a good idea or contacting patsy. Right now its just a lot to take in.
[–]_Vanadium_[S]
ReplyDeleteWell, there’s a few factors which point to a higher level of instigation and a hitman not connected with the players. I suppose it is a fine dance between brazenness and intelligence. So the higher up the pole you get, you have more money, more influence, more connections and more power.
If you have the money, it is safer to buy the hit because it keeps your hands cleaner. It is also safer, because if you asked the lower guys to do it, and they got busted, then you’d be more likely to be implicated. Also, you have greater confidence in your ability to do it, because you have the money and connections to buy/get whatever you needed.
For someone with less of those things it would take a lot of brazenness and/or skill, to be able to do it.... or the stupidity to think you could get away with it. I just see it as having more marks of ‘I’m more capable of carrying this out’ on the higher players. Higher ups have way more ‘fuck you, plebs’ in their repertoire.
The best way to do it would be for the higher ups to outsource, then pass a quiet word down, then let everyone else with an interest just do what wholeheartedly suggests itself.
Why not Colborn and Lenk planting and killing?
They are too close to it.
The perps would have had to have significant surveillance going on of both SA and TH, and, they would have looked extremely suspicious for having to disappear for so much time during the period when the crime was committed. They could not have had others in cahoots with them, to split up the tasks, because it is just too risky for something as morally significant as murdering someone.
Even if someone is alright with corruption, it’s a big step up to actual murder... a person still has to make rational justification to themselves.
For a person to be OK morally with murder to achieve their aim, someone who was not even involved with the gripes they had with the Avery’s... that’s not something just any joe can do, let alone a bunch of joes.
For them to be comfortable, I think they had to have enough reasonable doubt in their OWN minds that Avery was guilty, to proceed with the frame job, for them to create enough moral justification for themselves to proceed.
Even if their subconscious, and conscious, in quiet moments, knew exactly wtf had happened, they could deceive themselves into thinking that ‘of course SA did it’.
I reckon someone ...two, possibly three, independents got hired... get in … get out... leave the rest to people already there.
Colborn and Lenk wouldn’t have had the money to do that, nor the private swiss bank accounts or cash laying around to process payment....and probably not the balls.
Some smarmy poobah did it, because money can not only make you feel untouchable, but in some cases actually makes it the truth [not the absolute truth, though, I will note].
CONTINUED...
I never said personal issues wasn’t the motivation – that's the overriding one. Money was the means, and part of the motivation.
DeleteAs for cops killing people in the course of their job, because they feel threatened, yes they do, and that has a specific set of justifications around it, to bring closure and peace to the mind.
Killing an innocent unrelated person to protect oneself or others (and not from death, either) is different, and as I said, not something an average joe can mentally find peace with, nor, are they willing to do. Many of these men are god fearing, and fear hell enough to at least not go that far.
How could either of the two of them, Colborn and Lenk, disappear for that entire afternoon-evening-night... without anyone being suspect or finding out... for long enough to kill TH, transport to a safe burning place, cut her up, burn her (4 hours at least to achieve that on its own), stash the cremains and car... then get back to their families like naught had happened. It doesn’t fit, logically, to me.
And yeah, the cops/people involved in the evidence planting and construction DID do a sloppy job... on THEIR end.
All I reckon the actual killers did was kill TH, and dump the ashes and burned tech on Avery property … I reckon they dumped the car elsewhere.
All the rest of that overkill was done by dipshits who didn’t know when enough was enough.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/9s2g3w/zander_rd_the_random_black_van_the_sign_and_sikky/
Why would Ryan Hillegas help frame SA? self.MakingaMurderer
ReplyDeleteby Trout_Man
So i recently finished MaM2 and one of the bigger things that was left unexplained by KZ is why Hillegas and the PD were helping each other frame SA? KZ presents a pretty compelling issue with Hillegas being a stalker and having her day planner and all that...but why would a stalker help frame someone at the drop of a hat like that? whats the motive here?
i do believe that the new witness account claiming they told colburn about the Rav4 sets up an interesting situation of potentially planting the vehicle...but if hillegas helped them....why? i just cant seem to reconcile why a stalker would want to frame someone who was (is) innocent of killing the person they were idolizing?
Furthurmore, if ST and Bobby Dassey were the actual murderers...why would hillegas want to frame the wrong person.
everything else KZ presented had some logical explanation...but this one was never really explained (or maybe i missed it)
[–]mapglove
I think the cops convinced RH that SA was guilty (it apparently doesn’t take much to do this with people in Wisconsin) and they needed his help to make sure he was nailed for it, especially considering all the positive publicity around SA at the time from being exonerated and the talk about legal reforms/errors the cops made, they needed an open and shut case but couldn’t take the chance themselves of directly obstructing justice in such an egregious manner, lest they get caught with their pants down again.
A lot of people near to the victims of crimes seem to be pretty quick to embrace that the ends justify the means in the legal system, especially in small towns where the cops are mostly perceived as good. They just want someone to direct their anger at, and SA was an easy target for that. I doubt it took the cops much at all to convince RH that SA was the guy and planting the car was totally ok if it meant a definite conviction. Look at how flimsy of evidence the Halbachs needed to be 100% convinced of SA’s guilt, and how little they care to explore it further in the interest of justice for their daughter.
[–]Trout_Man[S]
i mean, i get it, what youre saying...and he may realize he did something wrong and Framed SA which is why he will die by his story of events rather than confess that he helped plant evidence and didnt realize what he had done until it was too late...idk.
[–]mapglove
I don’t know if they were actually involved at this point but I’m just picturing Fassbender and Weigert with the same voices from the BD confession video:
“He is guilty Ryan, we know he did it, we need you to help us make sure he gets caught”
“Do it, Ryan.“
“Plant the car and you can go free, Ryan. We will protect you.”
“Be a man, Ryan. Do it for Teresa.”
Ick. Hate those guys.
[–]EddieViscosity
That is an important fact, but Scott Tadych telling the witness (who sent Scott a text saying he saw Colborn on 11/4/05 at the gas station and told him that Teresa's RAV4 was parked in the turnaround by the old dam) that he'll talk to him later and never getting back to him is very suspicious. This would be something that might potentially free both Steve and Brendan, and he treats the witness like he's asking him some trivial thing.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/9sjydv/why_would_ryan_hillegas_help_frame_sa/
Why BoD Didn’t plant the blood. (self.TickTockManitowoc)
ReplyDeleteby _Vanadium_
October 29, 2018
[Excerpted and paraphrased by magiclougie]
What value can be had from logically analysing the theory KZ spoke about in that interview about BoD collecting Avery's blood from the sink the night of November 3rd?
If the valet key on the lanyard came from inside the RAV4, they would have planted the key much earlier.
The killer would have had her set of keys. And the killer would have disposed of the keys because his DNA would have been on them, linking him to the crime. The killer ditching the set of keys where no one could find them is why it took multiple searches by LE to find a key -- they had to acquire the valet key from her house and then plant it (which also means LE planted the other end of the lanyard in the RAV4). Only LE or someone with access to her house could have done that. Not Bobby nor anyone else at ASY.
If they had the RAV4 on site at the salvage yard with SA’s blood in it, along with cremains in his burn pit, then why go to the risk of planting that key. But the key was planted, which LE HAD to have done.
If LE finds the RAV4 on November 3rd or 4th, they know the car is TH’s. But if there is blood in the car at that time, they do NOT know if any of the blood belongs to SA. Is it realistic to think they got that blood tested surreptitiously by a lab and results returned within a 24-hour period so that they could move the car? I think that is pushing pieces too far to fit.
LE cannot move that RAV to the yard without knowing for SURE that the blood in it belongs to SA. Why not? Because if blood is tested in the future by a defense team, direct from the source, the RAV4, LE is busted for moving the car and tampering with evidence.
Also LE cannot move the RAV4 to the yard without knowing that TH is dead. Why? Because if TH turns up alive, then they again are busted. They would also, perhaps, have to KNOW where the body is, because if they move that car to the yard and then her body turns up dead in someone else’s loungeroom, then, again, they are busted.
Let’s say that BoD planted the blood AND moved the car on site OR the RAV4 was already on site. This then supposes that LE found the car on site, as is. It then would not make sense that they would propose to plant MORE evidence, because what they had -- SA’s blood in the car and the car on site -- would be enough to convict SA.
If LE planted blood in the RAV4, then it’s a lesser step to also plant the key and hood latch DNA, because individuals are already ON that slippery slope.
You wouldn’t bother to do things which could get you in deep shit in the future if they were unnecessary for a conviction. However, hoodlatch DNA and the key in SA’s trailer were planted after blood in the RAV4 was found. Why? Latch DNA pulled Brenden Dassey into narrative. And they had the key brought in ... and in their hands it seemed reasonable enough to plant it, which is not a great leap in behaviour and risk, considering they had already planted other things.
If the valet key and the lanyard had been the key TH was using, Bobby could have bleached it and put SA’s DNA on it, but the valet key wasn’t the key TH had been using. There was that photo of Teresa with her car keys in her hand, and it had at least two keys on it. No girl has one key on her key ring. The valet key, in pristine condition, was her spare key. Bobby did not plant the key.
I don’t believe BoD killed her. I’m in the ‘hire kill’ camp. I suppose that is from instinct. Instinct, though, I believe is logical processes going on in our brains that is under the surface of awareness. Like we do complex mathematical calculations in order to catch a ball, but we are not aware of them. If we can bring those instinctive calculations out and look at them, we can identify if there are mistakes. Improve our coordination.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/9sj4lu/why_bod_didnt_plant_the_blood/
Conclusion:
Delete1. Bear the German Shepherd would have gone off tap if it wasn't someone from the Dassey/Avery inner circle who swabbed blood from Steven's sink on November 3rd. Therefore, someone from the inner circle collected the blood from the sink.
2. The RAV4 was found offsite without Avery's blood in it. If Bobby were the killer, he wouldn't have collected blood from the sink on November 3rd and then not bothered to plant it in the RAV4. Therefore, Bobby did NOT collect blood from the sink, Bobby did NOT plant blood in the RAV4, and Bobby is not Teresa's killer.
3. RH, working with LE, helped move the RAV4, without Avery's blood in it, to the salvage yard. At some point on November 5th or 6th, blood was planted in the RAV4. But it was not blood swabbed from the sink.
4. Only the killer or LE would be motivated to collect blood from the sink to frame Avery. But nobody from LE was part of the Dassey/Avery inner circle. The only person from the inner circle with opportunity to kill Teresa near Avery Auto Salvage on October 31st, other than Bobby or Steven, was Scott Tadych. Therefore, Scott killed Teresa, collected the blood from the sink on November 3rd, and turned it over to LE.
5. Blood swabbed from the sink was labelled blood from the RAV4. And these fresh blood swabs from the sink, labelled as swabs from the RAV4, were the swabs sent to the FBI for EDTA testing. The FBI did not find EDTA in the blood because it was fresh blood swabbed from the sink, not blood planted in the RAV4. This is why the State does not want Zellner to have access to the RAV4.
[–]SBRH33[S]
ReplyDelete"Why doubt that she kept the Schmitz or Zipperer appointments yet believe that she kept the Janda one? I don't see the relevance."
Because there is absolute proof she was at Avery's. He admitted she was there and her visit was corroborated by family members. He even told everyone in the yard he had an appointment with the auto trader photographer that day and left work around noon.
An interesting fact is when he was asked what she was wearing.... Steve couldnt really recall what she was wearing exactly. Which to me is a truthful statement because I relate to that. I probably would not be able to recall that detail either in a short interaction with someone. Especially days or weeks later. In Joellen and Schmitz's case a year and a half later. Come to think of it Bobby Dassey gives a similar description of Halbach's clothing.... but we know his testimony was engineered like the others.
As far as Schmitz and Zipperers there is little corroborating evidence other than their word, a seconds long phone call and an answering machine message that seemed to disappear into thin air.
[–]thed0ngs0ng
According to some of the people on here who have examined the ping/cell tower data, there is no way TH went to Keil, WI for the Steve Schmitz appointment. And Keil is not in the area that TH was assigned to cover on Mondays.
I also find it suspicious that Steve Schmitz is related to todd schmitz, who was the individual who tried to protect peg L by claiming to be her private driver after she crashed her state vehicle in ditch DUI.
Another interesting connection, Wendy Baldwin's maiden name is Wendy Schmitz.
[–]SBRH33[S]
Yes.
I am aware of all of these sordid connections. It is why I would double down on my opinion that the Schmitz appointment never happened.
I truly don't believe the Zipp appointment happened either.
It cant be proven at all.
Its interesting to me that these appointments weren't witnessed by any husband, wife of friend. They were all one on one encounters.
How tidy is that?
Go figure.
[–]SBRH33[S]
"He saw her from the kitchen window, so he said; she was not that far away."
Yes, that is correct.
Kitchen Window Distance To Barbs Van
https://imgur.com/a/0u5fD
The kitchen window to Barbs Van parked out on the road just behind the Janda horseshoe driveway is roughly 125ft
Thats pretty far away.... and its conceivable that Bobby could not clearly make out the pant or jacket clearly.... regardless... Bobby's testimony was coached just like the other "eyewitnesses" to have claimed to see Halbach on the 31st. All three have a common like description of her outerwear except Steve Avery who could not recall at all.... and he had an up close exchange with her.
That illustrates to me that Kratz in the least coached his witnesses to describe the same type of clothing Halbach was wearing.... especially drilling home the idea that she was wearing jeans that day. Otherwise the planted daisy Fuentes Rivet would become meaningless.
Interesting that nobody else saw her that day other than the three people we are discussing. Bobby, Schmitz and Joellen.
I suppose you didn't look at that picture of the dark blue Daisy Fuentes Jeans I sent you.
"We can agree to disagree about this. If KK had coached Bobby properly, he would have described her clothing as JoEZ and Schmitz did, I think."
I believe Kratz did that with Bobby. Bobby had a hard time testifying against his own uncle. He had a tough time up there on the stand. To me it felt like watching someone who was uncomfortable with their lines and suffering a case of stage freight. All in all, he impeached himself under the direction of Kratz. A brazen move by Kratz that the defense easily called him out on. I believe that mistrial should have been granted right then and there.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/846ya1/a_return_to_kuss_road_the_red_trailer_and_the/
[–]learningtoloveit1
ReplyDeleteIn regards to the deer hunter killer, Chai Vang, what stands out is his insane background and then the benefit to Peg Lautenschlager in prosecuting his case.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chai_Vang
November 2004, Chai Vang murders 6 deer hunters
December 2004, Peg Lautenschlager announces she is personally trying that case
December 2004-August 2005, Peg personally visits and maps out every Wisconsin hunting club, spending $136,000 of DOJ budget on a survey that asks about Hmong Trespassers (meaning Peg personally visited Josh Radandt’s hunting club before Teresa disappeared!)
April 2005, Scott Tadych moves 2.1 miles from Avery Road
April 2005, Tadych’s personal friend and Attorney Jerome Foxx runs for Manitowoc judge
July 2006, Peg seats Foxx as judge
November 5, 2005, everyone goes and visits Foxx personally at his house to get search warrants signed
Scott Tadych is a member of Radandt’s hunting club, and Judge Foxx lives 4.1 miles from Avery Road.
Now tell me, when did Scott Tadych start dating Steven's sister Barb?
Deer hunters are a dime a dozen in that area. That alone wouldn’t define them as the killers. Unsuspecting access to TH is what stands out for me with those two, Scott and Bobby.
However, when it all is said and done. I can’t get pass the two men doing it as a job for their buddies.
Read:
https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2016/05/26/avery-evidence-conflict-interest/84487252/
And don’t forget Jody, Steven's fiancé and potential alibi, was put in jail just before TH was on SA property on October 31st.
Okay now read this....... I legit figured this guy was just out to lunch.
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/productionsouth.wordpress.com/2016/08/27/to-be-or-not-to-be/amp/
Now, they could have gotten BoD to do their bidding because they had the computer images on him, and he was the actual person who did the searching.
OR
Crazy enough, what if they had planted those images on there, using ST to do the planting just in case shit hit the fan (in addition to the TH pictures). This way, if shit hit the fan, they could throw BoD under the bus and save their skins.
The whole gig could be thrown all on BoD's shoulders (with the help of his uncle Steven), to frame the poor unsuspecting sheriffs, who just happened to want Steven gone anyway.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/9vhxj5/kz_is_not_pointing_the_finger_at_bod_and_stthe/
[–]_14611_
ReplyDeleteHave always wondered if st is some sort of plant , to manipulate from within.
[–]learningtoloveit1[S
I have too.
I cannot help but feel it was to ST advantage to discover a hole in the family. BoD having such disgusting habit for porn, murder, kids and incest is to their advantage. That would be nice for ST to know.
Was BoD preparing for a murder, that ST asked him to participate in?
Did ST do the searches? I initially thought maybe ST did the searches. I mean they were having affair. How could Barb accurately attest to their whereabouts, when she was already being deceitful.
Or was ST guided by someone actually intelligent but lacking a moral compass to discover holes in the family?
And so ST included BoD in the job of killing TH or cover up. And BoD computer searches were the leverage over his head. So BoD did help somehow in the murder or cover up and ST/BoD did start the initial cover up. But, once the car was found by the river, LE had to speed up their game and move the car. And thus rush the job.
I am sorry I just don’t see BoD or ST as intelligent enough to do it alone without LE always being involved. I don’t see their motive as great enough. I see the timing of the murder too beneficial to LE. I don’t see LE taking over BoD murder without fear of risking getting caught for framing.
I do see them using BoD as a fallout guy in case they were going to get caught. I see ST using BoD as a fallout guy too. And I do see them being at least smart enough to have a fallout plan. So, BoD computer being taken in was to their just in case advantage. So, was implementing RH in the search of the car. And so was involving MH in the search.
To me it appears TH family was motivated by keeping their daughter’s personal affairs private. I feel like that is the reason for the past tense. They were told the big bad man killed TH and now they just needed to draw him out and collect the evidence. And they agreed to it cause nobody in the family, including MH, wanted to be tarnished by TH’s life coming out. . Cause her life would splashed on the headlines and read that TH actually went and found a big bad guy. And MH and family didn’t want that. So, MH, aiming for a high profile career with the Packers, willingly did some dirty when finding the car.
A lot were motivated by SA being the killer. And so most didn’t even have to be in the know to make it happen. I mean leads did go elsewhere but the planted evidence always led it back to SA.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/a04dp5/can_we_talk_about_st_and_barbs_courtship/
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