They planted blood in the RAV4 but maybe it wasn't Steven Avery's blood.
Or perhaps the blood they swabbed in Steven Avery's bathroom was labelled as the blood they found in the RAV4, while also planting blood in the RAV4 from the vial.
Or the swabs and cuttings that purportedly came from the RAV4 could have been swabs and cuttings from Avery's Grand Am. And the Grand Am swabs simply were relabeled as RAV4 swabs.
According to current post-conviction counsel's expert, Dr. Reich, the most common way for forensic evidence to be planted is by re-labeling the forensic swabs. (Affidavit of Dr. Reich, P-C Exhibit 15).Avery's blood allegedly was found in six places in Teresa Halbach's RAV4 (front driver’s side portion, floor by the console, right of the ignition area, front passenger seat, CD case on front passenger seat, and a metal panel between the backseat and cargo area).
Nick Stahlke, a blood pattern expert from the State Crime Lab, testified the blood pattern was consistent with transfer stains and "passive drops," which are indicative of active bleeding. Similar stains and drops were found in Avery's Grand Am.
Ken Kratz argued that the blood from Steven Avery's bathroom could not have been planted in Avery's vehicle because that blood was collected by Det. Remiker and Sgt. Tyson on November 5, 2005, around 10:00-11:00 p.m. and the RAV4 was already enclosed and locked in a trailer on its way to the Wisconsin State Crime Lab in Madison.
They waited over eight hours to tow a locked vehicle involved in a missing person case.
WI State Crime Lab Analyst John Ertl was questioned on direct examination by Fallon. Fallon was leading Ertl down the timeframe when he first arrived at Avery Salvage Yard and what he saw. Ertl explained that he got the call at noon and told law enforcement to put a tarp over the vehicle as rain was forthcoming. Ertl did not arrive at the salvage yard until 4 PM. He said “they had removed the tarp just as we arrived.” He testified that when he finally got to the RAV4 after checking in, all the doors were locked and he looked inside shining a flashlight. This is at about 4:30 PM, a big gap of time from when the car was first discovered six hours earlier, at around 10:30 AM.
John Ertl said he then administered the loading of the RAV4 by a wrecker into a covered trailer for transport from the salvage yard to the State Crime Lab at 4626 University Avenue in Madison.
Fassbender testified at Avery's trial that they started loading the RAV4 onto a storage trailer around 7:30 PM on Saturday, November 5th:
The RAV4, on an enclosed trailer, began its journey to the Wisconsin State Crime Lab, 160 miles from Avery Salvage Yard, at 8:45 PM on Saturday, November 5th. It didn't arrrive until 1:15 AM. The defense never asked any witnesses about why it took four hours for the RAV4 to arrive at the Wisconsin State Crime Lab in Madision when the trip, per Google Maps, should have taken 2 hours and 45 minutes at the latest.
Were there stops along the way? If so, was the blood planted then? Or was the blood planted after it was secured at the crime lab at 2 AM on Sunday, November 6th, and before Groffy began his work later that morning?
Interestingly, Ken Kratz left Avery Salvage Yard on November 5th at the exact same time as Nick Mursburger, the man driving the RAV4 to the crime lab on the enclosed trailer.
Everyone reported that all the doors were locked when the RAV4 was found on the Avery property around 10:30 a.m. on November 5th.
When the photographer arrived at the crime lab "mid morning" on November 6th, he found the driver's door of the RAV4 unlocked.
Somehow, someone unlocked the driver's door after it left the Avery property. But the next morning, when the photographer arrived at the crime lab, the driver's door was unlocked when it shouldn't have been.
Cpl. Chris Wendorf of CASO reported that he was given a key to the RAV4 on November 11th, and the key was made in order to enter the RAV4 "as the original key had not been located at the time they had received the vehicle."
Here's the photograph of the valet key with its evidence label.
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/exhibit-key-4.jpg
The key found in Steve Avery's trailer was not the master key. It was the valet key.
Source - Reddit / Toyota RAV4 Manual
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMur...s_anyone_have_a_high_resolution_photo_of_the/
Side-by-side comparison of Teresa Halbach’s purported lanyard attached to the key found on Avery's bedroom floor (left) and the key collected into evidence as having been found on the bedroom floor (right)
EXCLUSIVE: NEW STEVEN AVERY VIDEO PROVES HE WAS FRAMED,‘MAKING A MURDERER’ DEFENSE ATTORNEY SAYS (VIDEO AT LINK)
Ken Kratz argued that the blood from Steven Avery's bathroom could not have been planted in Avery's vehicle because that blood was collected by Det. Remiker and Sgt. Tyson on November 5, 2005, around 10:00-11:00 p.m. and the RAV4 was already enclosed and locked in a trailer on its way to the Wisconsin State Crime Lab in Madison.
They waited over eight hours to tow a locked vehicle involved in a missing person case.
WI State Crime Lab Analyst John Ertl was questioned on direct examination by Fallon. Fallon was leading Ertl down the timeframe when he first arrived at Avery Salvage Yard and what he saw. Ertl explained that he got the call at noon and told law enforcement to put a tarp over the vehicle as rain was forthcoming. Ertl did not arrive at the salvage yard until 4 PM. He said “they had removed the tarp just as we arrived.” He testified that when he finally got to the RAV4 after checking in, all the doors were locked and he looked inside shining a flashlight. This is at about 4:30 PM, a big gap of time from when the car was first discovered six hours earlier, at around 10:30 AM.
John Ertl said he then administered the loading of the RAV4 by a wrecker into a covered trailer for transport from the salvage yard to the State Crime Lab at 4626 University Avenue in Madison.
Fassbender testified at Avery's trial that they started loading the RAV4 onto a storage trailer around 7:30 PM on Saturday, November 5th:
Q. What was done with the vehicle, if you know, and were you involved in that?Fassbender also testified that people were signing off from the scene around 10 PM on Saturday, November 5th:
A. Yes, I was involved in that, to a degree. Probably about 7:30-ish, that evening, with the rain coming down, I was asked to take the wrecker service, Rabas Wrecker Service, down to the area by the car crusher. Another, I guess, wrecker service was also there, Pethan -- Pethan, out of Calumet County. They had an enclosed trailer that could carry vehicles. They were also there, came down to that location. At that point, the Crime Lab personnel that were there accompanied the wrecker operator over to the RAV4 location where they hooked up the RAV4 and towed it back to the location by the car crusher, where the enclosed trailer was waiting, and they backed it into that enclosed trailer and secured it in that enclosed trailer.
[...]
Q. How was it loaded on the vehicle, was it started up or something?
A. No, the wrecker operator backed it into that trailer. There was a ramp set out and the wrecker operator backed it right up into that trailer and then it was secured.
Q. All right. Would you make note of the last page, which is toward the end of the day when people signing off. You said around 10:00 people were knocking off on -- this is the first Friday, November 5th -- I'm sorry, Saturday, November 5th?
A. Yes.
Q. Most of the investigation detectives were leaving around 10-ish, something like that?
A. Ten, eleven, sure.Ertl said he left the Avery property at 8:45 p.m. (the driver hauling the RAV4 on an enclosed trailer also left at this time, as did DA Ken Kratz). Ertl said the RAV4 on the enclosed trailer arrived in Madison at 1:15 a.m. on Sunday morning. Ertl said he called a local wrecker to remove the RAV4 from the trailer. Ertl said he finished securing the RAV4 in the crime lab at about 2:00 a.m. Was Kratz with him?
The RAV4, on an enclosed trailer, began its journey to the Wisconsin State Crime Lab, 160 miles from Avery Salvage Yard, at 8:45 PM on Saturday, November 5th. It didn't arrrive until 1:15 AM. The defense never asked any witnesses about why it took four hours for the RAV4 to arrive at the Wisconsin State Crime Lab in Madision when the trip, per Google Maps, should have taken 2 hours and 45 minutes at the latest.
Were there stops along the way? If so, was the blood planted then? Or was the blood planted after it was secured at the crime lab at 2 AM on Sunday, November 6th, and before Groffy began his work later that morning?
Interestingly, Ken Kratz left Avery Salvage Yard on November 5th at the exact same time as Nick Mursburger, the man driving the RAV4 to the crime lab on the enclosed trailer.
Everyone reported that all the doors were locked when the RAV4 was found on the Avery property around 10:30 a.m. on November 5th.
When the photographer arrived at the crime lab "mid morning" on November 6th, he found the driver's door of the RAV4 unlocked.
Somehow, someone unlocked the driver's door after it left the Avery property. But the next morning, when the photographer arrived at the crime lab, the driver's door was unlocked when it shouldn't have been.
Cpl. Chris Wendorf of CASO reported that he was given a key to the RAV4 on November 11th, and the key was made in order to enter the RAV4 "as the original key had not been located at the time they had received the vehicle."
"Also given to me by MEIER was a key the WI STATE CRIME LAB had made in order to enter the Toyota RAV4 vehicle as the original vehicle key had not been located at the time they had received the vehicle." [Page 230]The key that Lenk and Colborn found in Avery's bedroom on November 8th was the valet key to Teresa's RAV4. Teresa's key chain with her master car keys, house key and studio key was never found.
Here's the photograph of the valet key with its evidence label.
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/exhibit-key-4.jpg
The key found in Steve Avery's trailer was not the master key. It was the valet key.
Source - Reddit / Toyota RAV4 Manual
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMur...s_anyone_have_a_high_resolution_photo_of_the/
Side-by-side comparison of Teresa Halbach’s purported lanyard attached to the key found on Avery's bedroom floor (left) and the key collected into evidence as having been found on the bedroom floor (right)
EXCLUSIVE: NEW STEVEN AVERY VIDEO PROVES HE WAS FRAMED,‘MAKING A MURDERER’ DEFENSE ATTORNEY SAYS (VIDEO AT LINK)
BY JOSH SAUL, NEWSWEEK
December 12, 2017
A never-before-seen video shows that evidence against the subject of the hit documentary Making a Murderer must have been planted or fabricated, defense attorney Kathleen Zellner tells Newsweek.
The video is one of multiple experiments Zellner conducted to show faults in key evidence used to convict Steven Avery of murder in his 2007 trial. Zellner described the videos in court papers she filed this summer as part of his appeal, and she filed the actual videos with the court on Friday.
One of the videos shows an experiment where Zellner tried to re-create the chain of events police and prosecutors said led them to find a key belonging to Avery’s victim near a bookshelf in his bedroom after they had searched the room multiple times. Another of the videos shows a blood spatter experiment, during which Zellner and her team dripped blood on and inside a car to disprove a central prosecutorial theory.
“It shows the case is a complete fraud,” Zellner told Newsweek, referring to the bookshelf experiment. “I don’t know how long this case will take me, but it’s going to fall apart.”
Avery was convicted of murdering Teresa Halbach, a photographer who was killed sometime after driving to the Avery family’s auto salvage yard in Manitowoc County, Wisconsin on Halloween for work in 2005.
This photo was shown at Steven Avery's trial and shows a key that allegedly belongs to murder victim Teresa Halbach where it was found in Avery's bedroom. Defense attorney Kathleen Zellner conducted an experiment she says proves police planted the key there to frame Avery.
The case received international attention in late 2015 with the release of the Netflix documentary Making a Murderer, which led many to believe Avery had been framed. (The documentary also recounted Avery’s wrongful conviction for a 1985 rape in Manitowoc County and how he served 18 years in prison before that conviction was overturned.)
Avery’s bedroom had been searched multiple times before the key to Halbach’s Rav4 was discovered lying next to the bookcase. At the trial, police and prosecutors said the key had been hidden inside the bookcase. They said a police officer put a photo album into the bookcase, knocking the key out onto the floor.
But Zellner says her experiment, carried out with an identical bookcase she purchased at an antique shop, clearly shows the key was planted by police because there’s no possible way it could have ended up in that position after falling out of the bookcase.
“Cases are won on those kinds of details,” Zellner said. “There’s no way with the forces of gravity that it would end up by the slippers.”
Another of the videos Zellner filed with the court is of an experiment she conducted with human blood to show that the spatters inside the Rav4 were definitely planted and could not have been left by Avery—who had earlier cut his hand—without his getting blood on other parts of the vehicle, she said.
Zellner has a long history of success with unorthodox experiments: She once dropped a headless lamb in a creek as part of a successful bid to exonerate a father who had been arrested for murdering his daughter.
A county judge in October denied Avery’s motion for a new trial, but the appeal will now be considered by a Wisconsin appeals court, according to online court records.
She has spent about $233,000 on experts in her drive to prove Avery innocent. Of that, $175,000 was her own money and the rest came from the Midwest Innocence Project, the Avery family and donations.
WI State Crime Lab Analyst John Ertl testified on direct examination on day 6 (page 20). Kratz didn’t have duties for this witness. Is this because Kratz and Ertl, who left Avery Salvage Yard at the same time as the driver who towed the RAV4 to the crime lab, were at the crime lab together when it arrived at 1:15 a.m. on November 6th?
Instead, it was Fallon asking the questions for the prosecution. Fallon lead Ertl down the timeframe when he first arrived at Avery Salvage Yard and what he saw. Very important to note, during testimony Ertl explains, he got the call at noon and did not arrive at ASY until 4 PM on November 5th. He told LE at noon via phone to put a tarp over the vehicle as rain was forthcoming, and “they had removed the tarp just as we arrived” (page 15). He states when he finally got to the car after checking in, all the doors were locked and he looked inside shining a flashlight. He said there was no blood visible inside the vehicle when at ASY.
WI State Crime Lab Forensic Imaging Specialist Ronald Groffy photographed the car on Sunday, November 6th. The time when he did this work isn’t given specifically at trial. But he was the first person to take pictures at the crime lab, that is known.
Neither Kratz nor Fallon questioned him at trial. He was questioned by Gahn, who walked him through Exhibits 289 through 305, totally focusing on the blood in the photographs. On cross examination (day 10, page 64), he stated the driver’s door was unlocked when he got there, and all other doors were locked. This contradicts Nicole Sturm's and Ertl's testimony of all doors being locked while at ASY.
WI State Crime Lab Forensic Imaging Specialist Ronald Groffy photographed the RAV4 on Sunday, November 6th. The time he started this work wasn’t given specifically at trial, but it is known that he was the first person to take pictures at the crime lab.
Neither Kratz nor Fallon questioned him at trial. He was questioned by Gahn, who walked him through Exhibits 289 through 305, totally focusing on the blood in the photographs. On cross examination, he stated that when he got there all the doors were locked except for the driver’s door. This contradicts Nicole Sturm's and John Ertl's testimonies that of all the doors were locked while it was at Avery Salvage Yard.
Per witness statements and testimony, there was no blood visible inside the RAV4 at 4:30 PM on Saturday, November 5th, but definitely there was blood in Groffy's photographs taken on Sunday, November 6th.
CASO, Page 230
DATE OF ACTIVITY: 11/11/05
REPORTING OFFICER: Cpl. Chris Wendorf
On 11/11/05 at 1000 hours, I (Cpl. CHRIS WENDORF of the CALUMET COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT) was asked to report to the sheriff's department for a scheduled trip to Madison to retrieve two vehicles with tow units.
At 1045 hours on same date, Lt. JOHN BYRNES of the CALUMET COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT and I did leave from the Chilton area en route with SCOTT'S TOWING's flatbed operated by BRYAN ROEHRIG, and DAN'S TOWING's flatbed operated by DAN BANGART.
At 1300 hours, we did arrive at the WI STATE CRIME LAB on University Avenue in Madison, WI and did take possession of a blue, 4-door, Toyota RAV4 vehicle with the VIN of JT3HP10V5X7113044, and a 1993 Pontiac Grand Am with a VIN of 1G2NW14N9PC726145. This evidence was collected from LUCY A. MEIER, a WI STATE CRIME LAB technician at 1300 hours. Also given to me was the hood of a Rambler vehicle.
The two vehicles were loaded on the flatbed tow trucks. The Toyota RAV4 was loaded on the SCOTT'S TOWING flatbed along with the hood of the Rambler strapped to the flatbed undemeath the Toyota RAV4. The Pontiac Grand Am was loaded onto the DAN'S TOWING flatbed unit.
Also given to me by MEIER was a key the WI STATE CRIME LAB had made in order to enter the Toyota RAV4 vehicle as the original vehicle key had not been located at the time they had received the vehicle.
Also while at the WI STATE CRIME LAB, I had delivered an envelope addressed to the WI STATE CRIME LAB that had been given to me by Deputy HAWKINS that did contain evidence with a Buccal swab from STEVEN AVERY and palm and print cards from CHARLES AVERY, EARL AVERY and BOBBY DASSEY. This evidence package was turned over to SUE E. GITCHEL of the WISCONSIN STATE CRIME LAB and taken by her at 1323 hours on same date. GITCHEL did give me a Receipt of Physical Evidence form, which will be submitted to the Deputy HAWKINS, the evidence custodian.
At 1330 hours, we did depart from the WI STATE CRIME LAB in Madison en route to Chilton storage units. During the return trip, I did have constant visual of the TOYOTA RAV4 and there was no entry made to the vehicle by anyone. The vehicle did not come off the tow unit until 1540 hours when we arrived at the Chilton storage units where the vehicles were stored.
The Toyota RAV4 was stored in unit #7 of the storage units off of Mary Avenue in the City of Chilton. I did personally view the offloading of the vehicle and did utilize the key that had been made to turn the wheels so that it could be placed inside the storage unit. I then did tape the vehicle doors with evidence tape and initial, date and time stamp such evidence tape. The unit was then closed and locked with a fresh, brand new Master Lock key lock that had been removed from its packaging.
Lt. BYRNES did remain with the Pontiac Grand Am and he did evidence tape seal the doors to that vehicle and initial that evidence tape as well. See supplemental report from Lt. BYRNES.
At that point, I did also close the garage door to storage unit I of the same complex and opened a fresh Master Lock key lock from the packaging and used that to secure the garage door.
Evidence tags were filled out and placed under the windshield wipers of the vehicles secured in the storage units. Property Tag No. 8027 belongs to the Toyota RAV4 and Property Tag No. 8028 is for the Pontiac Grand Am.
The vehicles were stored in the storage units off of Mary Avenue and a key copy that was made for the Toyota RAV4 was brought back to the sheriff's department along with keys for the Master Locks used to secure the garage doors.
The following sets of keys were bagged, sealed and labeled for evidence and submitted to the evidence storage area in the evidence room at the CALUMET COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT:
- Bag No. I with Property Tag No. 8037 is a key copy for the Toyota RAV4 that was made by the WI STATE CRIME LAB, collected at 1300 hours, same time vehicles were collected. .
- Bag No. 2 with Properly Tag No. 8038 contains two Master Lock keys for storage unit #7. This storage unit contains the Toyota RAV4 and the hood for the Rambler.
- Bag No. 3 with Property Tag No. 8039 contains two Master Lock keys for storage unit I, which contains the Pontiac Grand Am.
Cpl. Chris Wendorf
Calumet Co. Sheriff s Dept.
CW/bdg
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/exhibit-RAV4-evidence.jpg
Did you see blood inside the RAV4 at ASY?
By get_them_crooKKs at TickTockManitowoc
January 12, 2017
I have to admit, I just read the transcript of the entire Steven Avery trial with an eye towards who might have perjured themselves. I even started to write about that but, believe it or not, only the obvious ones stick out. I may still figure out a way to write about that.
But in reading the transcripts I also kept notes for anything that stuck out or caught my eye as important. I found that only four people at trial were asked if they saw blood in the RAV4 when it was at ASY. This is on Saturday the 5th, fresh from the Pam of God moment around 10:20am to later on around 4:30pm.
All pages referenced are from the testimony as posted here: http://www.stevenaverycase.org/jury-trial-index/
Another thing to note, the first three people to answer the question if they saw blood inside the RAV4 were all done under cross examination. The fourth though was asked on direct by Thomas Fallon. He must have slipped up or was expecting a different answer.
First person to be asked: Pam Sturm, page 238 during cross examination. She answers point blank that she did not see blood inside the car, no hesitation. This is pretty huge as she is the first person to see the car that fateful Saturday.
Second person: her daughter Nicole Sturm, pages 16-17 during cross examination. Ken Kratz objects when she dodges the question when it was asked; she did not give a yes or no answer at first. KK now knowing the question would be forthcoming most likely coached her response, and thus objected. But the judge overruled and made her answer. She says she did not see blood inside the vehicle.
This is the second person to see the car that day. Two for two, no blood visible inside. This is early morning.
Third person to be asked: Sergeant Jason Orth, pages 159-60 during cross examination. He blatantly dodges the question when first asked. It’s quite comical how he tries to avoid it, saying how he was thirty feet from the vehicle and couldn’t see inside; this immediately after saying he could see inside and read Teresa Halbach first name on a digital camera card. Wow. Jerome Buting keeps at it and he eventually has to say that he did not see blood looking inside passenger side window or rear tailgate window.
Three for three, no blood visible inside the vehicle when at ASY. This is still early morning.
Fourth person to be asked, WI State Crime Lab Analyst John Ertl, page 20 on direct. KK didn’t have duties for this witness; it was TF asking the questions for the prosecution. TF was leading JE down the timeframe when he first arrived at ASY and what he saw. Very important to note, during testimony JE explains he got the call at noon and did not arrive at ASY until 4pm.
He told LE at noon via phone to put a tarp over the vehicle as rain was forthcoming, and “they had removed the tarp just as we arrived” (page 15). He states, when he finally got to the car after checking in, all the doors were locked, and he looked inside shining a flashlight.
Four for four, no blood visible inside the vehicle when at ASY. This is now let’s say 4:30pm. That’s a big gap of time from when the car was first discovered six hours earlier.
John Ertl then administers the loading of the car by a wrecker into a covered trailer for transport to Madison, to which they arrived at 1:15am Sunday morning (page 32). He then calls a local wrecker in to get the vehicle out of the covered trailer, and the RAV4 is then secured by 2am in a garage at the WI State Crime Lab.
OK, one last thing to mention about the vehicle. WI State Crime Lab Forensic Imaging Specialist Ronald Groffy then photographs the car on Sunday November 6. The time when he did this work isn’t given specifically at trial. But he is the first person to take pictures at the crime lab, that is known.
Neither KK nor TF questioned him at trial; he was questioned by Norm Gahn, who walks him through Exhibits 289 through 305, totally focusing on the blood in the photographs. Surely this is fine for the prosecution’s story. But on cross examination, page 64, he states the driver’s door was unlocked when he got there, and all other doors were locked. This contradicts NS and JE testimony of all doors being locked while at ASY.
ALERT: hypotheses forthcoming. The above is based on facts as taken from testimony at trial. What follows is my humble opinion.
So, no blood visible inside the RAV4 at 4:30pm on Saturday November 5th but definitely in RG photographs taken Sunday November 6th.
There’s been all sorts of speculation about the RAV4 delivery to the WI State Crime Lab.
Were there stops along the way? If so, why?
Was the car doctored before RG takes photographs and begins his work? Etc.
I have to admit, I’ve been following this thing hard since seeing MaM. At first I was totally convinced that James Lenk and Andy Colborn were dirty and planted evidence. But as time has gone on, Kathleen Zellner’s posts and filings are fascinating to me and are swaying my thinking.
Although they weren’t put into evidence at trial for obvious reasons, pictures were taken of the interior of the RAV4 at ASY. Let’s say KZ got her hands on them. They clearly show no blood. Four people at trial all say they saw no blood inside the car Saturday at ASY. OK, so she probably asks herself, so how did it get there a short time later on Sunday, and how could I prove how it got there?
KZ tweet from May 17, 2016 states, “SA evidence planted – trailer, garage, fire pit, burn barrel and car. Brendan Dassey evidence planted – in his mind. Both: badly done.”
For the sake of this argument I’m only focusing on the blood in the car. Through testing she probably connected the dots that the blood came from a source other than the much discussed SA vial.
Dead stop right there. Let that sink in. We all know the money the county was on the hook for in the civil lawsuit. They need that lawsuit to go away. Surely that’s motive. But the genius in this case is they distanced themselves from the investigation at every turn, letting the other county lead. The other county. Let that sink in: the other county leads the investigation.
As much as it pains me to think it, JL and AC might just be pawns for the other county’s needs.
Surely AC and the calling in the car plates is perplexing. And JL is still very shady, seemingly present at every key evidence finding, no pun intended. But they could be just party line men doing the job they are told to do: investigate, find evidence.
And that they did -- in the investigation led by the other county.
KZ tweet from December 4, 2016 states, “Experts experiments confirm SA’s trial attorneys correct about blood being planted but incorrect about how it was done.”
What I suggest to all is to think about this case that way: one county most likely involved with the murder, one county directs the investigation that builds the case for the trial.
One – the act. Two – the investigation.
One – clean, distant, seamless. Two – muddy, ugly, questionable.
Connected but not really.
One – prior to 10:20am Saturday November 5th. Two – after 10:20am Saturday November 5th.
Each side has their purpose and each side has plausible deniability for their actions.
It’s freaking brilliant, devious as hell, and quite despicable, but brilliant nonetheless.
We aren’t stupid and know that KK led the charge orchestrating the cause for Two. But there isn’t much we know about One.
I think KZ is connecting the dots along these lines. It’s mind blowing to ponder. I have every faith in her to get the case thrown out due to the planted evidence. That covers number Two.
But if she reveals the murderer, with evidence, covering the all elusive number One, my goodness that would be beyond anything my brain can comprehend.
I cannot wait to see justice prevail.
By FIB1 at Reddit
February 29, 2016
I am talking about the rear hatch/tailgate. There is no inside release to open the hatch. You either use a key or press the unlock button on the driver's door which requires electricity. If you don't have a key or battery, you make a key or pick the lock.
Did LE make a duplicate key for the RAV4 before the key was "found" in SA's trailer? I'm leaning that way. Even if I accept that the RAV4 was locked when it was delivered to the Crime Lab (the trial testimony is far from conclusive on even this simple issue), LE still has some explaining to do about how the RAV4 was mysteriously unlocked at the crime lab.
Ertl testified he delivered a locked RAV4 to the Crime Lab no later than 2:00 am on the 6th. Photographer Groffey was called in mid-morning on the 6th by the lab supervisor to take pictures before the evidence technicians started their work. Groffey testified that the driver's door--and only the driver's door--was unlocked when he first approached the car. Groffey was then able to reach around inside and unlock the other doors. That cannot be true. Groffey could NOT manually unlock the rear hatch/tailgate door from inside because there was no power to the electric locks and NO unlock lever on the inside of the rear door. See page 11 of the manual.
http://www.ownersmanualsforcars.com/manuals.item.3690/Toyota-RAV4-Owners-Manual-1999.html
So Groffey was either not telling the truth about only the driver's door being unlocked when he arrived or he was not telling the truth about unlocking the rear hatch door. The manual override lever to unlock the doors in the event of a loss of electrical power only unlocks the driver's and passengers' doors!
Now maybe the crime lab used a slim jim or similar tool to unlock the driver's door, but the rear door requires a key or electricity to unlock or actually picking the lock. I would love to have some feedback from a locksmith.
The possibility that LE made a key is supported by the Calumet County Evidence List which shows a RAV4 copy key in evidence and which copy key has a different log number (8037) than the "found" RAV4 key (7620). See page 14.
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Calumet-County-Sheriffs-Department-Evidence-List.pdf
So if LE made a key to unlock the car by the 6th, it could not have been a surprise that the "found" key fit in the locks on the 8th. The possibility that LE made one or more new keys is consistent with my earlier post positing the "found" key used a newer key blank for 2001 and newer RAV4s, not the round key blank for 1999 models.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/45o4ij/wrong_model_key_planted/?
I read through his testimony, and I don't think they really addressed if he unlocked the cargo door, only the other doors (but it's worded so that it could mean either way). He did, however, testify that he had access to the cargo area with the rear door open no later than the 8th, and I don't believe there is an interior door handle on the cargo door. So yeah, now it seems there are two times when doors magically unlocked - first the driver's door, then possibly later, the cargo door.
Strang and Buting built part of their defense on the theory that the RAV4 was tampered with by LE at the Avery Yard AFTER it was found. Remember all of the testimony about the tarp creating a tent over the car and hiding it from view?
Let's consider the three scenarios--tampered with before placed at Avery Yard, tampered with while at Avery Yard, and tampered with after left Avery Yard. If your consensus thought train is correct and the vehicle was filled with incriminating evidence, placed at the Avery Yard and then securely locked, why was it unlocked at the Crime Lab? Without a satisfactory explanation, there is a failure of the chain of custody and there is a profound failure to maintain the integrity of the evidence. By themselves, those compromises could have been grounds to suppress all evidence recovered from the vehicle. The defense's request to suppress the evidence would have been strengthened by the inability of ANYONE to testify that they observed any blood evidence while the vehicle was at Avery's.
For scenario 2, tampered with while at Avery's, if the doors were actually UNLOCKED at Avery's as evidenced by the doors still being unlocked when delivered to the Crime Lab, then the defense is majorly helped. Evidence technician Ertl's credibility is out the window because he said the doors were locked and were still locked when he left it at the Crime Lab. The theory of planting by Strang and Buting becomes that much more plausible.
Now for scenario number 3, tampered with at the Crime Lab, if all testimony was that the vehicle was locked when it was delivered and yet somehow it is not locked, then there is again a flagrant lack of evidence preservation. If you do not know who unlocked the car, you do not know who accessed the car, when, and for what purposes. If you were a reviewing court, how likely would you be to affirm the integrity of the evidence found when no one can establish how or when the evidence got there? It is a fundamental problem for the prosecution.
My post was really following one aspect of scenario 3, that the car was locked when delivered but then unlocked. If I am right about the rear hatch needing a key to be unlocked and the CCSD log reflecting the existence of a second key, then the "found" key becomes that much more suspect. Being able to show that LE made a duplicate key before the 8th when the key was found and that the key blank was wrong to me is strong evidence in support of a planting argument.
There is no conclusive factual basis for anyone to accept that the RAV4 was locked at the Avery Yard. Please understand that KZ was not at Avery's Yard when the RAV4 was placed, found, or hauled away. She is trying to reconstruct what happened according to the evidence she was provided and has generated herself. KZ's tweet suggesting that the RAV4 was locked at Avery's Yard does have some testimony to support it, but the testimony is vague and leaves big holes.
If you read the transcripts of the trial and preliminary examination, only three people testified to any firsthand knowledge of the RAV4 being locked at the yard. Pam and Nikole Sturm testified they tried the doors and they were locked. Pam Sturm thought the RAV4 was a 2-door--not exactly confidence building about her recall of events. Nikole admitted she NEVER tried the rear hatch/tailgate! Do these two people convince anyone on this site the RAV4 was locked?
The only other person to testify on the issue was evidence technician Ertl. Day6, p. 17. He said "we" checked the doors and the RAV4 was locked. When I read word "we" instead of "I", I take that to mean that Ertl himself did not check every door. Otherwise he would have said, "I checked each door and the tailgate and they were all locked."
I do not know whether the RAV4 was locked at the Avery Yard, and I do not have access to most of the evidence and photographs collected in the investigation. All I can do for now is try to direct some inquiries toward areas that are most troubling to me.
It appears there was a time when the RAV4 was covered with a tarp. Almost like a tent. People are speculating that since the car was "hidden" something could have been tampered with. Also note from what I can tell from the transcripts is Remiker, Colborn and Lenk were there before everyone from Calumet and well before the crime lab got there. Lenk says he got the call late morning and he supposedly went straight over there. I think it was about 11am. So the fact Manitowoc was there before many others is troubling to me.
- The FIRST time when we know the RAV4 was unlocked was mid-morning on November 6, when Groffey arrived at the lab.
- Groffey said only the driver's door was unlocked
- Groffey never opened the hood and the battery was disconnected until fingerprint expert Nick Stahlke tried to check the odometer on November 7. Stahlke said he was the first person to open the hood. Day 11, 230: Day 12, 51.
- Groffey took photos of the cargo area on November 6, so he opened the rear hatch at some point.
- The rear hatch cannot be opened without a key or without battery power to the electric locks.
- The rear hatch is not a trunk where there is the prospect of a child being locked inside. Anyone can simply exit the car through the read passenger door. That is why there is no manual unlock lever inside the car for the rear hatch.
- If someone at the Crime Lab unlocked the driver's door on November 6 before Groffey arrived, that is the only door that person unlocked. How do we know? Because if the intent of the "unlocker" was to facilitate access for Groffey and other lab workers, the "unlocker" would have either (1) walked around the vehicle and manually unlocked all of the doors, (2) only unlocked the driver's door under the reasonable belief that there was battery power and the lab techs could simply unlock all of the other doors using the master unlock button, or (3) unlocked the driver's door, opened the door, and pushed the master unlock button himself at which time he would have realized none of the other doors unlocked because of no power and then unlocked the other doors.
- Therefore, either Groffey lied when he said he unlocked the rear hatch, OR Ertl lied when he said the rear hatch was locked when he left the RAV4 at the lab at 2:00 am on the 6th, OR someone made a duplicate key and used it the morning of November 6 or unlock the rear hatch OR someone picked the lock of the rear hatch the morning of the 6th.
- Each of these scenarios implicates a fundamental break in the chain of custody/preservation of the integrity of the evidence.
- The "found" key was delivered to the Crime Lab on November 8 and Culhane said she checked it the same day.
- We do not know for sure the RAV4 was locked when it was at the Avery Yard. The Sturms admitted they did not check the rear hatch and Ertl never specifically testified he checked the rear hatch. It is a gaping hole in the trial testimony.
The original version of the Calumet County Sheriff’s Dept. Exhibit/Property Ledger is rather cumbersome, isn't it? So I did some copy/paste and word processing work and shoved it into an Excel spreadsheet available here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jyvwt4rsw4o7dw3/CCSD%20Prop%20Tags.xlsx?dl=0
Two lists are in this workbook: the original list - as is and a second version sorted by the Ledger # and property tag #. Have at it and have fun ;-)
Colborn or Lenk had Teresa's set of keys that were "never recovered." They got them when Colborn found the SUV on Zipperer's property the evening of November 3rd. It's what they used to drive the vehicle to Avery's Auto Salvage on the evening of November 4th. And they made a copy before they destroyed her set of keys.
I can't find log number 7620 on page 14. I downloaded the pdf and did document search. When I search the document for "key" I get the 3 hits on p 14:
05-205 8037 key copy for Toyota Rav
05-195 8114 key
05-195 8012 2 keys on 2003 key ring
Again only the first one is specifically listed as being for a Toyota Rav4, so I wonder where the evidence is that 8114 or 8012 are also Rav4 keys, if that is what people are thinking. I believe that 8037 is the key that they found in Avery's bedroom -- the magic key. I believe that they call it a copy because it is not the "main key" for a Toyota Rav4 but rather the valet key. I believe that "copy of Rav4 key" doesn't mean it is the second Rav4 key they found, with the first one being the original key they found. I'm not arguing -- I just want to get onto the same page. I can't find reference to any other Rav4 key (explicitly mentioned) besides 8037. Or that Lenk planted it while it was still on Avery lot, during the tarp fiasco, while he wasn't signed in. Then he locked it to seal planted evidence in. Just so many unknowns and possibilities in this case.
That is, Steve Avery's blood/DNA was planted in the RAV4 at the Avery yard.
That is a great find that the found key matches the 2001 shape and not the 1999 shape. That would be amazing if he found key was actually made by LE.
The lab would have any means necessary to open the vehicle without a key. I was just emphasizing my own frustration with the fact that nobody knows who unlocked it! :) If Goffey had to use something to get the cargo door open, or wait for someone else to do it, why wouldn't he mention that? If the door could be opened manually from the inside, that means he was crawling around the vehicle and the evidence to do it! LOL Or, there was a key. I don't know what to make of it all!
I think there are two keys. I think LE needed one to unlock all doors on the 6th. The "found" key is critical evidence and is supposed to be carefully tracked. I just think LE made two keys. Here is an example where I think a second key was probably used for convenience. At the Avery yard, the RAV4 wheels were turned to the right. Now look at the photo after the car was put into the storage locker. The wheels are straighter. Someone probably unlocked the steering column and turned the wheels.
I think the key recovered is actually the sub key.
1999 rav4 owners manual
- Master key—This key works in every lock.(square key)
- Sub key—This key will not work in the glove box. (Round Key)
You think two made at the same time? I was thinking
maybe having to make the key might explain the delay in finding the key
in the trailer. Could also be because it was the first opportunity for
Lenk and Colburn weren't being watched as closely. Although that story
makes little sense to me anyway. Why send them into the trailer in the
first place if you really think they need watching. Unfortunately finding photographic or other evidence of a second key
may be difficult in this case. They didn't take all that many
photographs it seems. May be possible to track down the maker of the
key(s) and get records that way. If the found key was caused to be produced by LE it would explain allot. Like why it looked new and had no other DNA on it.
Check this out:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/45o4ij/wrong_model_key_planted/
Only that a duplicate key was made and used by mid-morning on the 6th. For all I know they could have made a key on the 5th or days before the 6th once the VIN of the RAV4 was disclosed.
I suppose, phone ahead with the VIN number to a Madison Toyota dealership and pick up a newly cut key (or two) when they arrived at Madison? I would think that should show up on the car fax, but it doesn't. I rang the dealership to confirm your suspicions, you sir are correct. You cannot manually unlock the rear hatch with the battery disconnected. If they used the central locking to open the car doors, they had reconnected the battery. Sherry Culhane testified that when she tried the key from SA evidence the key turned but the engine didn't turn over.
Who, when and HOW did the crime lab unlock the locked RAV? Copy key? When made by whom?
I believe that when TH bought RAV4, Toyota dealer provides her the new spare key because this car was sold as used car and possibly the original spare key wasn't there. This could be confirmed by Toyota dealer only. Hence, your reference to the newest shape of the 'head' (not the round key blank for 1999) is very-very possible and makes sense. Now, I have no doubts (same as you), that LE made duplicate key for Lab Technician to check mechanical parts/operation (put car on lift or whatever) and other car's examinations. When this duplicate was made? IMO, as soon as the new spare key was found inside of RAV4 on Nov. 6. I have absolutely no proof of that. But possibility is very high that this spare key was never used by TH and was inside of the car. And as soon as driver door has been opened---bingo!----key was found. In regards who, when and how opened the driver door during the night, prior Groffy's arrival, I think majority of people here could make the 'logical guess':)...jmo.
Sounds like something I said about a month ago here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/44etgn/who_unlocked_the_rav4/
But that's cool. I like this issue. Here's a pic of how far Groffy would have had to reach to unlock/open the back trunk door.
http://imgur.com/GhlNmeZ
So, not very far, really. It's possible, at least. Looks to only be 3-4 feet at most, so an arms length or so. As far as the key goes, I'm not seeing an item #7620 in this list. So I don't know what to say about that being a different key than the one they "found" in the trailer.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/44etgn/who_unlocked_the_rav4/
But that's cool. I like this issue. Here's a pic of how far Groffy would have had to reach to unlock/open the back trunk door.
http://imgur.com/GhlNmeZ
So, not very far, really. It's possible, at least. Looks to only be 3-4 feet at most, so an arms length or so. As far as the key goes, I'm not seeing an item #7620 in this list. So I don't know what to say about that being a different key than the one they "found" in the trailer.
The other tag on the key is interesting in that it
says Madison Lab and has the label as M05-2467 #C and is dated and
initialed/signed as 11/08/05. Wonder where the key got logged in as
evidence? Cal. Co., MTSO or Madison Crime Lab? And if the Tag # 7620 is the key shown in Evidence photograph as
05-179 Tag #7620 why does the "key copy for Toyota Rav" show up as
different Evidence Tag # for Cal. Co.? Kucharski was with Lenk when he found it -- he was
the CC officer "babysitting" the MTSO people that day when they searched
Avery's trailer - he was the one logging the evidence, see p 35 and
thereabouts in day 9 of the Avery trial transcripts. Kucharski is asked to identify a photograph that is marked into
evidence as Ex 219 on p 37. I don't know if that is the same photograph
as the one you linked - /u/SkippTopp do we have a way of knowing what the evidence numbers are of the photos in http://www.stevenaverycase.org/photos/?
I think some people might call the sub key a copy of the master key. But I can't say why the evidence number on the bag doesn't match the one in the list from CC sheriff's office.
Is there pictures of both keys or just the one they found? Because if not it would be interesting to test the "copy key" for DNA and see if it comes back as Avery's DNA and that'll show that the found key is the copy key. Only a photograph of the "found" key was used in the trial. When Skiptopp gets more documents hopefully there will be more pictures. KZ does have the full file of all photographs and test results.
Exhibits 295 - 301 are specifically the pictures I need to find out were taken on 11/6 to aid your find, FIB1. Groffy was tough to pin down how many doors he opened and what pictures he took on 11/6. He took photos, per testimony, over the course of three days under the direction of three other techs.
Q. Okay. Could you just tell us which ones, if any, were taken on the 6th?
A. That would be State's Exhibit 289, 290, 292, and 293, of the ones that I have.
[http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Jury-Trial-Transcript-Day-10-2007Feb23.pdf#page=67] Page 67
Darn. He says he didn't take the rear cargo pix on the 6th.
But wait! Buting caught him in a lie right off the bat because Groffy did presumptive test on blood at ignition and CARGO AREA on the 6th, with Harrington:
Q. Okay. And the two of you then did this presumptive test for blood?
A. That is not correct. I did the presumptive test for the blood.
Q. Okay. Was that a phenolphthalein test or was that some other test?
A. That is what we called a phenolphthalein test.
Q. Okay. So is it specific for human and animal, or just any kind of blood?
A. I do not have that knowledge, sir.
Q. Okay. But, you did get a positive on the ignition stain and that larger area that you mentioned over in the cargo area, kind of on the passenger side?
A. That's correct I had a positive test for those two areas.
Q. Those are the only two areas that you tested, though?
A. That is correct.
Q. Did you do any other tests that day or take any other pictures?
A. My activities were limited to photographing the exterior portions of the RAV4. And then the interior portions that we could get photographs of without actually having to go inside the vehicle and get those pictures before other analysts could have a chance at processing the vehicle.
[http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Jury-Trial-Transcript-Day-10-2007Feb23.pdf#page=50] Page 65 and 66
So, only exterior and broad interior from open doors so not inside the vehicle...yet totally inside the vehicle to do presumptive tests.
And if he did the blood test, then he got the cargo door open somehow and I would imagine, took some of the photos 295 to 301, eh?
Groffy opened the cargo door:
Q. Did you notice whether there were ever more items in the rear of this area, or was it always, when you first saw it, did it look like this?
A. When I opened up the cargo door and took this photograph, that was what was in the back of that vehicle, sir." Same link, page 69
Notice Buting says "When you first saw it"...and tested the cargo stain for blood, right?
I wondered why Buting was asking for items not in the photos...did Groffy see this or that...and him not recalling. Wow...read this on Page 70:
Q. And would you have -- would you have been asked to take photographs of any of those kinds of items before they had been removed or touched in anyway?
A. I may or may not have been, it would have been at the discretion of the analyst processing the vehicle whether or not they wanted that photographed.
"I may or may not have been" Could Harrington have directed him to NOT take photos of some items in the vehicle? The top of the lanyard? Cameras? Something? On the 6th?
Okay, continuing to Page 73, Buting seems to think Groffy is the guy who opened the tailgate with a key:
Q. And does that look like that's where the key goes in, as well?
A. I believe that's the position where the key was put in, yes.
Groffy might have meant in general, but he used past tense.
1999 Rav4 Owners Manual keys
This just goes to show the two different keys for the Rav4. The master key and the valet(sub) key.
The sub key matches the description of the key that was found in the bedroom. I don't know if copy keys are made to be sub keys or master keys.
This just goes to show the two different keys for the Rav4. The master key and the valet(sub) key.
The sub key matches the description of the key that was found in the bedroom. I don't know if copy keys are made to be sub keys or master keys.
I think some people might call the sub key a copy of the master key. But I can't say why the evidence number on the bag doesn't match the one in the list from CC sheriff's office.
Is there pictures of both keys or just the one they found? Because if not it would be interesting to test the "copy key" for DNA and see if it comes back as Avery's DNA and that'll show that the found key is the copy key. Only a photograph of the "found" key was used in the trial. When Skiptopp gets more documents hopefully there will be more pictures. KZ does have the full file of all photographs and test results.
Also if the battery was disconnected like LE states
then it would have been impossible to unlock the doors automatically (if
her doors were automatic). Side note: If you have a VIN number you can get a copy of the key.
Exhibits 295 - 301 are specifically the pictures I need to find out were taken on 11/6 to aid your find, FIB1. Groffy was tough to pin down how many doors he opened and what pictures he took on 11/6. He took photos, per testimony, over the course of three days under the direction of three other techs.
Q. Okay. Could you just tell us which ones, if any, were taken on the 6th?
A. That would be State's Exhibit 289, 290, 292, and 293, of the ones that I have.
[http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Jury-Trial-Transcript-Day-10-2007Feb23.pdf#page=67] Page 67
Darn. He says he didn't take the rear cargo pix on the 6th.
But wait! Buting caught him in a lie right off the bat because Groffy did presumptive test on blood at ignition and CARGO AREA on the 6th, with Harrington:
Q. Okay. And the two of you then did this presumptive test for blood?
A. That is not correct. I did the presumptive test for the blood.
Q. Okay. Was that a phenolphthalein test or was that some other test?
A. That is what we called a phenolphthalein test.
Q. Okay. So is it specific for human and animal, or just any kind of blood?
A. I do not have that knowledge, sir.
Q. Okay. But, you did get a positive on the ignition stain and that larger area that you mentioned over in the cargo area, kind of on the passenger side?
A. That's correct I had a positive test for those two areas.
Q. Those are the only two areas that you tested, though?
A. That is correct.
Q. Did you do any other tests that day or take any other pictures?
A. My activities were limited to photographing the exterior portions of the RAV4. And then the interior portions that we could get photographs of without actually having to go inside the vehicle and get those pictures before other analysts could have a chance at processing the vehicle.
[http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Jury-Trial-Transcript-Day-10-2007Feb23.pdf#page=50] Page 65 and 66
So, only exterior and broad interior from open doors so not inside the vehicle...yet totally inside the vehicle to do presumptive tests.
And if he did the blood test, then he got the cargo door open somehow and I would imagine, took some of the photos 295 to 301, eh?
Groffy opened the cargo door:
Q. Did you notice whether there were ever more items in the rear of this area, or was it always, when you first saw it, did it look like this?
A. When I opened up the cargo door and took this photograph, that was what was in the back of that vehicle, sir." Same link, page 69
Notice Buting says "When you first saw it"...and tested the cargo stain for blood, right?
I wondered why Buting was asking for items not in the photos...did Groffy see this or that...and him not recalling. Wow...read this on Page 70:
Q. And would you have -- would you have been asked to take photographs of any of those kinds of items before they had been removed or touched in anyway?
A. I may or may not have been, it would have been at the discretion of the analyst processing the vehicle whether or not they wanted that photographed.
"I may or may not have been" Could Harrington have directed him to NOT take photos of some items in the vehicle? The top of the lanyard? Cameras? Something? On the 6th?
Okay, continuing to Page 73, Buting seems to think Groffy is the guy who opened the tailgate with a key:
Q. And does that look like that's where the key goes in, as well?
A. I believe that's the position where the key was put in, yes.
Groffy might have meant in general, but he used past tense.
Unfair, the New Science of Criminal Justice
ReplyDeleteby Adam Benforado
"A law professor sounds an explosive alarm on the hidden unfairness of our legal system." —Kirkus Reviews, starred
A child is gunned down by a police officer; an investigator ignores critical clues in a case; an innocent man confesses to a crime he did not commit; a jury acquits a killer. The evidence is all around us: Our system of justice is fundamentally broken.
But it’s not for the reasons we tend to think, as law professor Adam Benforado argues in this eye-opening, galvanizing book. Even if the system operated exactly as it was designed to, we would still end up with wrongful convictions, trampled rights, and unequal treatment. This is because the roots of injustice lie not inside the dark hearts of racist police officers or dishonest prosecutors, but within the minds of each and every one of us.
This is difficult to accept. Our nation is founded on the idea that the law is impartial, that legal cases are won or lost on the basis of evidence, careful reasoning and nuanced argument. But they may, in fact, turn on the camera angle of a defendant’s taped confession, the number of photos in a mug shot book, or a simple word choice during a cross-examination. In Unfair, Benforado shines a light on this troubling new field of research, showing, for example, that people with certain facial features receive longer sentences and that judges are far more likely to grant parole first thing in the morning.
Over the last two decades, psychologists and neuroscientists have uncovered many cognitive forces that operate beyond our conscious awareness. Until we address these hidden biases head-on, Benforado argues, the social inequality we see now will only widen, as powerful players and institutions find ways to exploit the weaknesses of our legal system.
Weaving together historical examples, scientific studies, and compelling court cases—from the border collie put on trial in Kentucky to the five teenagers who falsely confessed in the Central Park Jogger case—Benforado shows how our judicial processes fail to uphold our values and protect society’s weakest members. With clarity and passion, he lays out the scope of the legal system’s dysfunction and proposes a wealth of practical reforms that could prevent injustice and help us achieve true fairness and equality before the law.
http://www.adambenforado.com/unfair.html
Other comments:
ReplyDeleteRegarding the Valet key, which do *not* open glove box nor trunk/hatchback: How in the world did the culprit(s) get Teresa into the trunk/hatch back area? Could the culprit climb over the front seat & unlock/access a back door &/ or hatchback? If that’s the case wouldn’t there be scads more DNA? OR did someone else have the spare valet key?
The spare key came from the brother or roommate. Lenk and Colburn knew after 7 days of searching the red trailer and finding absolutely nothing, they needed to “find some” evidence. It’s easily conceivable that they asked the brother to help so that the man they thought did it would be convicted. Remember they instructed the lab to “place the girl in Avery’s house or garage”?
I thought the following was enlightening altho not certain of the accuracy.
It takes 1400 to 1800 degrees Fahrenheit to collapse (cremate) human bones to pieces in about 2 ½ hrs. They use 2 lb. steel balls within a tumbler to reduce the remains to ash from that. Thermal heat conductance and radiation is 40 feet in the open at that temperature.
Vulcanized steel belted tires melt to collapse at 932 degrees Fahrenheit in about 30 minutes. Varies with different fillers and steel strand used. Thermal heat conductance and radiation is 16 feet in the open.
The home is approximately 20 feet distance from the fire pit. Wood structures suffer damage and burns at 1100 degrees Fahrenheit after the moisture has evaporated, which takes about 15 minutes.
Clothing and plastics completely disintegrate at 212 degrees within minutes (polyester burns at 61.97 seconds).
So, Question 1: If that is the crime scene where is the structural damage to the home?
And Question 2: How are there any remnants of the cellphone & other items still intact?
http://brobible.com/entertainment/article/making-a-murderer-theory-explains-colborns-call/
I have done watched the documentary, read through many of the court xscripts. One major question regarding to the key that makes no sense to me or I what i have question about is....
ReplyDelete1. MCSD Colburn states that he personally, with aggressive nature moved the cabinet in the room during a previous search.
2. At some point after this, MCSD rep. Finds said key.
3. MCSD Colborn Suggests that key may have come from behind cabinet and later found.
Issue is...
1. If cabinet had been handled aggressively, one would think it would never had settled exactly as it was in photos prior to finding key. (See photos in case Files of photos with shoes stacked next to cabinet. And then photo of cabinet when key was found).
2. The cabinet in both pictures is in exact distance from the phone accessories AC to DC plugged in to outlet.
3. He never said they moved the slippers and found key..it was laying in clear view. In order to have moved the stacked shoes to clear the view of key..they would have stated they found them under the slippers or that moving the cabinet in twisting motion enough to move the slippers revealed the key. If this was the case...the cabinet would not have been placed exactly in its original position.
Your thoughts??
No photos show cabinet moved from original location
The Carpet indention from cabinet would be visible..but it shoes Abington was never moved as testified to.
Typo correction on last sentence!!
DeleteBut it shows cabinet
Excellent observations Daniel. Here's a good thread on Reddit about the key.
DeleteHidden message in KK closing regarding the key (self.TickTockManitowoc)
submitted 3 days ago by bashdotexe
KK knew the key was planted. He had to, I don't think he was that stupid. But he had to deal with it because that is what arrested SA in the first place.
We now know it was either planted or AC lied about how it was found on the stand. Neither of which are flattering for the prosecution.
Now, just for a moment, put yourself into KK's sweaty shoes or pilfered panties, your choice. So, how do you solve this problem? They already widely publicized it, used it as the reason to arrest SA and it's in all the reports. It's too late to unring the bell.
What can be done?
First: You have to bring it up at trial. That is all you had linking SA to TH's RAV when you arrested him. Can't get around that.
Second: Clench your butt cheeks as tight as possible and hope DS and JB don't predict your crazy theory of AC going apeshit on a nightstand which ends up farting out a key. Even though the photos show nothing like that ever happened.
Third: Try to “un-introduce” the key as evidence in the closing arguments and tell them to “set the key aside”. That was more than just a tacit admission of planting. It was strategic. By telling the jury to set it aside in deliberations it couldn’t be used to get SA a new trial when it became clear the key was most definitely planted.
Summary: By asking the jury to put the car key evidence aside and just consider the remaining evidence, KK hoped an appeal would be denied if it was ever found out with solid proof the key was planted. Then he could argue it wouldn't have changed the verdict. That was a clever move.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/58jkrr/hidden_message_in_kk_closing_regarding_the_key/
[–]Averydidntdoit85or05 5 points 2 days ago
ReplyDeleteAn honest judge would of declared a mistrial if prosecutor himself was basically admitting uncertainty of crucial evidence. Clever move not at all. he admitted to jury even he didn't believe key story was possible. I think it goes to give defense stronger leg to stand on for appeal. He flat out asked the jury to ignore perjury and planting
[–]lrbinfrisco 3 points 2 days ago
Willis had cemented the fact that he was not an honest judge well before the jury trial even began. KK didn't have much to worry about there.
[–]southpaw72 5 points 2 days ago
I know you Americans have a fuc#ed up system , but come on surely this legal tactic would not stand up to deny an appeal , would it ?
[–]lrbinfrisco 6 points 2 days ago
Unfortunately it has many times in the past. Appeals are constantly showing malfeasance on behalf of the prosecution and/or LE and the judge acknowledging the malfeasance but denying the appeal because the judge reasons that even if the malfeasance was corrected, it would not have been likely to have changed the jury's verdict.
[–]JJacks61 3 points 2 days ago
Kratz is the master of manipulation, all wands, smoke and mirrors. It's a shame he couldn't have used that intellect in a positive way and done his job, at least in the sense that as top law dog, he must seek the truth.
He didn't, his bias was so clear. Amazing that a prosecutor would ask a jury to set aside the key to the victims fucking car. You can't make this shit up, just can't.
[–]iolouthief 2 points 2 days ago
I hated the statements that even if the key was planted and can you set it aside. No way!! To me that key was one of the reasons I got hooked on this case. The key statement was a Pandora's box of "please don't look took hard or dig too deep at the case" because... there was so much for us to hide that we did and planted! KK was saying even if the key was planted can you please just swallow my BS and find him guilty. Ugh I'm so disgusted all over again.
Wisconsin State Crime Laboratory (CSRU) (self.TickTockManitowoc)
ReplyDeletehttps://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/5xtyy7/wisconsin_state_crime_laboratory_csru/
submitted 2 days ago * by SBRH33
Lets just get into the thick of it. The Wisconsin State Crime Lab team sent to the Randant Quarry and the Avery Salvage Property knew specifically... exactly what their job entailed. It was enshrined in protocol as we see in the link below.
What was the WSCL truly doing at the Avery property.... more specifically what was the WSCL C.S.R.U performing down on the cul de sac of Kuss Road?
Why were they not following protocols specifically outlined in their response duties?
Please read the following WSCL link carefully.
Allow your jaw to slowly drop to the floor.
WSCL Crime Scene Response Unit
https://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/crime-labs/criminalistics/crime-scene-response
Full Website Here: WSCL Website
https://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/crime-labs/wisconsin-state-crime-laboratory-0
They Even Have An Evidence Technician School: Please Check Out Their Prerequisite! WSCL Tech School!
https://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/crime-labs/evidence-technician-school
Points Of Interest
They receive specialized forensic training in crime scene photography, blood stain pattern analysis, casting, body fluid collection, blood borne pathogens, fingerprint and footwear development and recovery, bullet trajectory, buried body recovery and processing vehicles.
Buried bodies and processing vehicles. The CSRU would have and should have: A. Processed the RAV4 found on scene... even if only preliminarily to find any clues as to where the owner (Halbach) may have been or gone .....Yet they let it sit for 10hrs without even so much as looking inside of it.... then whisk it off in the cover of night... all. the. way. down. to. Madison.... arriving at the facility a full 90 minutes later then expected. B. should have been photographing everything.... especially the burn pit, quarry burn site, KUSS ROAD and the Randant Deer camp.
Clandestine grave sites are typically processed by a two to four member team and are routinely a scheduled response. Routine processing of these scenes would include photographic scene documentation; utilize general searching techniques and excavation methods utilized for searching for human remains and other evidence
KUSSROADKUSSROADKUSSROADKUSSROADKUSSROADKUSSROADKUSSROADKUSSROADKUSS
Kachinsky's Parculiar Request
Kachinsky makes an extremely odd photographic discovery request from KK. Make of it what you will, but it comes off as a fruedian slip by LK.
FROM EXHIBIT 359.
H1 and H2 Pictures of body with measurements and of dig site (in salvage yard).
Investigation Continues.....
CONTINUED...
[–]ahhhreallynow 10 points 2 days ago
ReplyDeleteThis has bothered me as well. Who made the decision to not open that vehicle and when and why? It is a missing person case until they find evidence of a murder. A small amount of blood was found the next day. Who decided they should NOT open the vehicle to look for her purse, phone and signs of struggle? It was emphasized from the get go that no one should touch or enter the vehicle. In a missing person case time is so important to finding them alive. They cite not wanting to contaminate but they didn't have a problem letting it sit in the rain and wind. It just doesn't make sense to me. For me it just points toward them knowing that vehicle was there before POG found it. They had a plan before hand. I think it came from higher than Fassbender/Weigert.
[–]MMonroe54 14 points 2 days ago
Some have suggested/theorized that planting was done while the RAV was under tarp. I suspect that, instead, it may have been opened while under that tarp, to see what it contained. That's why KK said to the media, before he should have known it, that they knew on Saturday that there was blood inside the RAV -- something he couldn't know if it really was not opened, because every LE testified that they could not see blood through the windows. For some reason, though, they didn't want that known -- that the vehicle had been opened -- and so they transported it as they did, presumably intact. Just another theory, of course.
[-]magiclougie
KK knew about the blood because he put there.
[–]iolouthief 6 points 2 days ago
Is it possible that KK followed the RAV4 to Madison and played all kinds of dirty tricks to bar them from touching it until it was "ready".
[–]thed0ngs0ng 4 points 1 day ago
He left at the exact same time as the RAV4 left to go to Madison so IMO it is extremely reasonable to think KK may have followed the RAV4 to the crime lab in Madison
[–]MMonroe54 9 points 2 days ago
I'd love to know who made the decision about the RAV. Not processing it on scene, that is. I think Ertl helped make the decision about transporting it inside a trailer, as I recall his testimony, but he arrived at the scene late, about 4 pm, I think. Someone -- one of our two fearless leaders, Wiegert or Fassbender? -- had apparently already decided the vehicle would not be opened and processed, but moved intact. Since it was moved to Madison, I'd assume it was Fassbender.....possibly, the more I think about it, with advice from Kratz.
[–]OpenMind4U 13 points 2 days ago
I'd love to know who made the decision about the RAV.
Fassbender. And I'm interesting to know why Ertl has been URGENTLY called back to ASY, after such a long working day and long drive to Madison??? Someone needs him OUT very badly.
[–]7-pairs-of-panties 3 points 1 day ago
Ah and Fassbender signed the paper that PL also signed that stated that TH RAV 4 was a BLUE 1998 WiDot say's her car was a 1999 Green RAV 4. Why would they need a special paper signed when a perfectly fine DMV record of what her car was that went along w/ loan documents? Why would they specifically need that in writing?
CONTINUED...
[–]OpenMind4U 6 points 1 day ago
ReplyDeleteWhy would they specifically need that in writing?
IMO, just 'smoke and mirror'....:)....don't forgot that PoG phone call (with RAV4 description) was recorded. They need her confusion to 'justify' somehow:)...Blue-Green...lol
[–]Moonborne11 1 point 1 day ago
The decision seems to have been made prior to Fassbender's arrival. According to testimony, Remiker told Ertl what to do with the RAV when he spoke with him at noon:
"... it was Detective Dave Remiker, asked that -- Well, he explained to me that he had a missing persons case out of Calumet County they were getting involved with, but the vehicle belonging to that person had been located in Manitowoc County. And he would like for the lab to come and look at the area around the vehicle and to recover the vehicle and bring it back to the laboratory."
TT Day 6
[–]Moonborne11 2 points 1 day ago
Remiker had to get his marching orders from someone. The decision had been made prior to Fassbender's arrival at 2:30. Simply telling Ertl to move it to the lab does not mean Fassbender made that decision.
Now the really interesting aspect of this part of Ertl's testimony is that Manitowoc/Calumet knew at noon they were going to move the RAV to Madison. Why did it take so long to get a trailer on site to move it?
My guess is they had to wait until after dark or maybe needed the excuse of inclement weather to justify the delay to lab.
[–]OpenMind4U 2 points 1 day ago
Why did it take so long to get a trailer on site to move it?
Ertl has suggested to get trailer early afternoon...but whoever gives orders (above), made delay decision...and when towing trailer arrived, they wouldn't be able to tow RAV4 for another 2.5 hours!!! Because for some strange reasons, auto-mechanic was performing intensive work on the front right tire shift, laying down on the ground...which is very hard work (and stupid one, imo:).
[–]OpenMind4U 1 point 1 day ago
Too bad you didn't see what was going on. It's OK. 'Agree to disagree'.
Someone ABOVE Remiker and Fassbender was given orders (no arguing on this point!). HOWEVER, Ertl himself received orders throughout investigation mainly from Fassbender (Remiker is very small 'fish in pound'). And to show you something else as the proof, please read this.
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Trial-Exhibit-160-Email-Between-Fassbender-And-Ertl.pdf
CONTINUED...
[–]OpenMind4U 2 points 1 day ago*
ReplyDeleteMy response was to this question/conversation:
'I'd love to know who made the decision about the RAV. Not processing it on scene, that is.
Now, we're talking about placing tarp and towing RAV4 to Madison Lab to 'preserve' evidence. So, to be absolutely sure who was in charge and who gives orders to Ertl, here:
Q. And who did you meet at that location?
A. I was looking for a Detective Remiker and that he escorted me to an area near a fire truck where they had a canopy out --
A. A canopy off the side of a fire truck. And it was a kind of a stormy day and it was windy and loud. And I was introduced to Investigator Mark Wiegert, Calumet County Sheriff's Department; and also, Special Agent Tom Fassbender of the Wisconsin Department of Criminal Investigation. And those two were my main contact people throughout the rest of my involvement at the scene.
Q. All right. But your direction came from Investigator Wiegert and Agent Fassbender?
A. Yes.
.... Q. All right. Now, before we go any further, I would like to direct your attention to the screen, again, showing you Exhibit 130 and ask, does -- does that scene strike any memories with you?
A. Yes, that's me standing there, right there. That's the RAV4. ...
Q. And who is that in the red coat?
A. That's Special Agent Tom Fassbender.
Q. And what does he have under his arm?
A. I can't quite make that out, kind of looks like he is holding a tarp?
Q. A tarp.
---- now RAV4 ready for towing......page 31
Q. Once the vehicle was secured, what did you do?
A. We then prepared -- and I'm not sure if this is the point where they actually had the ramp raised now and we then looked at the crushed vehicle in the crusher, or if that had occurred right prior to moving the RAV4 out. But at any point, at some point Tom Fassbender said that we don't need you any more right now, get the RAV4 back to the lab.
Now, would you agree with my response?:)
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Jury-Trial-Transcript-Day-6-2007Feb19.pdf#page=65 starting page 10
The video of when the Rav 4 was first found showed no blood near the trunk handle. The photo after it gets to the crime lab shows blood smeared near the trunk handle.
ReplyDelete[–]idunno_why 4 points 4 hours ago
ReplyDeleteI think re-labeling (or switching) the swabs is the most likely scenario in this case.
I will not be surprised at all if the blood in the front of the RAV actually turns out to match the unidentified blood on the cargo door, not SA. And possibly a match to the unidentified male blood found in the quarry.
The bathroom blood (self.TickTockManitowoc)
submitted 3 months ago by missingtruth
I believe RH broke into the trailer to get anything that he could put in the Rav to point fingers at anyone but him.
Upon seeing blood in the sink, if it was wet, he could have soaked it onto a rag, a sock, anything and let it dry. When you have a blood spill on carpet and it dries, the first thing you do is scrape up the clotted flakes that you can before wetting the carpet. Blood flakes can be reconstituted with a tiny amount of saline (which is found in blood). RH would know he could use that from his nursing training.
Even though not stated, I believe we may learn that there were fibers found in the blood other than from the Rav4.
[–]bigmouthlurker
ReplyDelete"The manner it (the key) was found doesn't exactly suggest any elaborate planning."
You have to be able to better than that if you want to defend LE. That's just a sloppy answer. I say, Occam's Razor: Whomever found the key brought the key with them. Especially when they were publicly and officially recused by their supervisor and then blatantly proceeded where they did not belong. How do you ignore that?
I see this trend with people who think SA is guilty because it is feasible in the realm of the universe and all possible scenarios that he might be guilty, despite the ludicrous scenario that requires to believe in. Well, if that's your argument then it's feasible in the realm of the universe that the key was planted. Yes, feasible.
This is the whole problem with the guilty verdict - it lowers the bar so far on reasonable doubt that it opens the door to believing in almost any scenario presented, but not proven. The whole case forced me to redefine what I define as 'proof' and the prosecution failed miserably to prove anything. Is it feasible for Avery to truly have hidden the key in his trailer but did NOT murder TH. Yes. That's feasible. So, he's not guilty.
The alternative is the status quo that you are defending: The accused must prove his innocence. If your standard of doubt is so low that you simply accept as pure truth what everyone but SA says then you have no standard. If I apply your standard of doubt to the investigators then I must conclude they, not SA, murdered TH. Why? Because it's feasible in the realm of the universe. Never mind how unlikely it is. The only reason they aren't in jail is because they weren't accused first. It's feasible therefore it's beyond reasonable doubt? Do you realize how many insane scenarios must be true for SA to be guilty? Your 'check thinking' light is blinking.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/6cnc62/on_113_all_calumet_knew_is_there_was_an/
Where blood wasn't found in the RAV4 by [deleted] in TickTockManitowoc
ReplyDelete[–]tuckerm33 4 points 1 year ago*
Disclaimer: no one knows if the blood was planted for sure, but we all know the damn blood was planted....
So I then say, the reason that the blood was not planted in obvious areas was because of one simple reason.
Who ever orchestrated the "planting", has some background in investigating and is familiar with cases in which actual blood was found, and where. Additionally, I would say so pretty basic understanding of psychology too, as they would need to know how to appeal to the jury. It was probably someone that does this sort of thing for a career perhaps....
If you are going to plant blood and get the jury to believe that it was not planted, then you cannot plant the blood in obvious places which would make the defendant look like an idiot.
What that means is, especially in Steven Avery's case, the prosecution had to strike a perfect balance of believable evidence.
They wanted to get the jury to believe that Steven killed Teresa and that he set out to deliberately hide the evidence, namely, that he set out to "clean up" all of her blood to hide the crime. That is why they came up with the idea of bleaching the floor of the garage.
The problem for the prosecution then was they can't paint Steven as a guy that was smart enough to remove all splatter of Teresa's blood from the garage and the trailer, but then be dumb enough to leave blood smears on the steering wheel or obvious places.
So, to strike a perfect balance, they plant the blood in places that they can make the jury believe that were missed or overlooked by Steven when he set out to meticulously clean up all of the blood.
In the end, they want the jury to look at Steven and see a guy that is smart, but not not smarter than the cops. The cops always have to look like the smarter ones.
Finding the key and finding the bullet in the garage, this gives the perception to the jury that a diligent investigation took place and that Steven was nothing more than a criminal that thought he could outsmart the police and get away with murder.
The places that the blood spots were found in the RAV4 were all places that a juror would easily believe that were spots that were overlooked by the killer in their hasty attempt to wipe things clean.
The average person would think to wipe their fingerprints off of obvious surfaces such as the car door handles and steering wheel, but then be careless enough to rub blood from a cut finger against the dashboard, near the ignition when starting the car and not even realize it.
Or, blood planted on the inside of the door jam on the passenger back door. This too is a location that the jury would believe could be overlooked by the killer. It would be believable to them that the killer would miss this spot when cleaning up the blood because once the door is shut, the killer wouldn't know that blood was there, they wouldn't know they accidentally dripped blood from an active cut.
This is the mentality that went into planting the blood. You know, if it was planted, because as I said, no one knows that it was...
Well, someone knows if was or not, just not us.....
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/4la8we/where_blood_wasnt_found_in_the_rav4/
[–]dark-dare 1 point 5 months ago
ReplyDeleteThey would have had a key to move it onto ASY.
[–]MMonroe54 3 points 5 months ago
Why need a dummy? Why wouldn't they have TH's valet key? They were in her house on 11/3, and several days thereafter. They could have had her key at any time.
[–]nicolethompson11 9 points 5 months ago
While we're on the topic again, if we do believe they are two different keys (not saying I don't) I'd love to hear what people theorise as to why there are two?
i.e. Why didn't they just plant the other one? Why two separate fake keys?
To be clear, I wholeheartedly believe the key was planted and I'm not trying to challenge the notion that there are two keys either, I've just been thoroughly stumped as to why.
[–]foghaze 12 points 5 months ago
Because they didn't have any keys when they needed evidence to plant. It usually takes more than one day to get spare keys made when you don't have the code located in the door. So they planted a key and made a commotion about it. Colborn was like "we knew this key was 'special'". When the truth was they had found hundreds of keys on the property. I'm sure they also found dozens of Toyota keys as well. They needed evidence and they needed it fast.
I believe they did the same exact thing with the bones. There were no human bones in the pit but there may have been obliterated animal bones. I think The real pieces were planted after the fact. Which would explain why they were found 'all over the property' and why there are no pics. It also explains why they didn't want a coroner there. Not one person digging that day admits they knew they found human bone. They all testify they weren't sure. Including Ertle and Sturdivant.
[–]knowfere 11 points 5 months ago*
They certainly did NOT want to plant her full set of keys, there could have been too much dna on them from other people- SB, RH, her siblings, parents, anyone who she might have let drive or get into her car using her keys. Along with the fact there would be other keys, house, work, locker, who knows, plenty of other people dna likely on them. And of course keys won't burn, so thats why they're just mysteriously GONE. They obviously had a key when the vehicle was moved to Madison as Groffy had access immediately on the 6th. IF there are 2 keys, they copied that key to have the plant key. My guess is they got an original either from the glovebox or elsewhere on or in the car or they got it from her house when there interviewing on the 3rd, but that does not mean they didn't also have her full set, just could not use it for anything.
[–]nicolethompson11 13 points 5 months ago
I don't believe they have her full set. I believe the entire contents of her handbag are missing. Probably burned with her body or kept by the killer. The stuff in the burn barrel is planted junk.
But nothing I'm reading is justifying why there are two valet keys.
[–]thed0ngs0ng 6 points 5 months ago
I would think in an impartial court the blood evidence in the RAV4 would have been considered inadmissible considering that the state essentially admits that the vehicle was opened by an unknown party after recovery by police and before processing by the WSCL.
[–]foghaze 4 points 5 months ago*
Goffery said it was unlocked when he got there. How it was unlocked is still a mystery to this day. I'm wondering if they found the lanyard and key at TH anywhere from the 3rd to the 5th when they searched her home multiple times? What if they got Pam to put one half of the lanyard in the RAV and LE kept the other half with the key attached. At some point whoever had the key unlocked the drivers side door for the crime lab and held onto it. This would explain how the RAV's drivers door was unlocked when Goffery started photographing it the next morning. . Once the lanyard was planted they used the fob/key half to plant on the 8th. Just throwing alternatives out there.
CONTINUED...
[–]JJacks61 13 points 5 months ago
ReplyDeleteI can't say for certain his theory is correct, but one thing I can say for sure. That key that I see in the photo's is a brand new key. The machining marks are fresh and the key looks unused. It most certainly is not a daily use key.
Also the fact that not one speck of Teresa's DNA was found on it tells me the key was planted. The key being planted calls every single thing LE found into question in my book. If LE interferes in any way in an investigation of the facts or evidence, the case is tainted. Doesn't matter if they didn't like Avery or were told to do this by a superior.
[–]BunnyChapparral 6 points 5 months ago
LE had already searched the trailer multiple times and found nothing. They were concerned that the conviction would be troubled without having at least one thing inside the trailer or garage. The logic problem I see is that at the time of impounding the car they wouldn't have known they were going to need the spare key to plant which might have been in the console or glovebox. So my speculation is they called RH, cause they had been communicating with him regarding the civilian search, on the night of Nov 5 and asked if he had another key to the RAV cause they found it at ASY locked. Or perhaps PoG told RH that LE might want a key. Either way, RH or MH volunteer the key to someone in LE to be helpful. LE person neglects to write up a timely report about the spare key received from RH and then conveniently has it on the umteenth search for planting. They coerce RH or whomever into cooperating with them to not disclose the key transfer because they convince them that SA is guilty and we don't want him to get away with it. Then, they never write up a report about getting the key. The RAV could have been opened with slim Jim device at the crime lab by any worker.
[–]bennybaku 8 points 5 months ago*
I believe the key is her spare/valet key. It was in her car, probably in the center console. So the question would be if he was responsible, why use the spare key, when he would have had her key? IF for whatever reason lost her keys during the crime scene, he took off the spare from the lanyard, threw it in the back, why did they not test it for his DNA? AND if he was bleeding, why isn't their blood on the lanyard?
[–]MMonroe54 9 points 5 months ago
Good questions.
I think it was her key, too, but in her glovebox. And why would SA, who would have had everything -- RAV, purse, camera, phone, keys -- not use her regular key? The valet key, unless that's the only car key she had, has never made sense. Even so, it doesn't make sense because where is her house key and studio key? I think that key was planted by someone who did not have access to her keys, plural.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/67m3fb/the_key_is_the_key_of_the_whole_case_the_key_in/
[–]Alsss41
ReplyDeleteEasy you throw in a few people who know nothing about any 'motives' to collect the evidence and back up what they are saying.
After all the more people repeating the same narrative is easier to pass as truth especially when they use lay people to 'do their work' for them and when looked into have no motivation to lie or any previous connection or prejudice toward the accused.
That's why Krapz kept trying to hammer home that SC was the one who 'single handedly' exonerated SA and therefore had no motive to alter conceal or lie about any evidence she tested, after all if she hated Avery she would have altered that DNA test also ( was a simple case that it had already been tested years previous and didn't match but 'couldn't exclude SA', so she couldn't fiddle those results to say it was conclusively SA, had nothing to do with the fact that she couldn't have done it).
But yeah there are a few in this case that you can tell are just doing their jobs and are testing and collecting what is before them It's the few who could have altered things before the 'back up eyes' had arrived that concerns me.
The RAV was never taped with crime tape, the other car was (not sure if it was the Pontiac or the one took from Crivitz will need to check) So why was the most important piece of evidence not sealed when it had NEVER been entered and all evidence would have been preserved ready for forensics to collect and test anything recovered? Unless they knew that it would need to be accessed on the 'down low' and putting tape on would create a massive problem as signatures would need to be forged and cuts made and signed for etc.
Someone knew and made the decision not to tape it then suddenly a locked RAV becomes unlocked overnight.
Think how easy it would be to scoop a nice juicy blood drop from the pontiac on a swab, add a bit of distilled water to rehydrate and make more of the sample and smear around RAV in few places.
Easy, no tubes of blood needed, blood is right there in the other car they have in evidence, just take a bit from one and put in the other overnight before it is officially processed by the middle men who simply document as they see things.
Then throw in an analyst who won't say anything if the blood was 'weaker' or a bit different from the norm.
This is what is wrong with this investigation -- Had proper chain of custody and evidence collection been done as standard then no one would ever be able to question things.
[–]MMonroe54[S]
They didn't mind calling in the bloodstain pattern expert -- which, come to think of it, why was he there on a Sunday morning before they even began processing that vehicle? They didn't, at that point -- supposedly -- know there WAS blood in the RAV. The more I think about it, the more I think they did know there was blood in that car. (And KK's slip of the lip at the press conference seems to bear it out; he said they knew on Saturday that there was blood in the RAV). How? Because they could either see it through the windows -- which they lied about -- or they opened that car at ASY.....which is far more likely...and probably occurred when it was under tarp. But again, why lie about it? Because by the time they were talking about what they did, Avery was arrested and was suggesting they had planted evidence? And they had to avoid any implication of that at all costs?
They also didn't mind calling in the photographer, or another lab guy, Harrington. So why not others? Why not Ertl? He had been at ASY the night before; he accompanied the RAV back to Madison. And he was a lab scientist, did DNA work. Where was he Sunday morning?
I'd love to know who all was present in that crime lab garage that morning.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/7hmmqp/photographer_groffys_actions_and_testimony_part/
NEW STEVEN AVERY BLOOD SPATTER TESTS PROVE HE WAS FRAMED, ‘MAKING A MURDERER’ ATTORNEY EXCLUSIVELY SAYS (VIDEO)
ReplyDeleteNEWSWEEK
12/28/17
The Wisconsin man whose conviction was portrayed in the popular Netflix documentary Making a Murderer was framed for the 2005 crime, his defense attorney told Newsweek, citing new experiments she conducted with a bloodstain expert.
The experiments are among multiple tests overseen by attorney Kathleen Zellner to demonstrate flaws in the prosecutors’ original murder case against Steven Avery. In 2007, he who was found guilty of killing a woman, in part because his blood was found in the Toyota SUV she had driven to the Avery family’s auto salvage yard.
“The experiments show the blood in the RAV4 was planted,” said Zellner, who was not involved in Avery's original case, which was grippingly portrayed in the Netflix series. “We’re not saying the cops planted it; we’re saying the killer planted the blood.”
Zellner and bloodstain pattern analyst Stuart James re-created as much of the actual scene as possible—with the lawyer and expert using real blood from a volunteer, the actual sink from Avery’s trailer and a RAV4 of the same make and model as the victim’s.
New experiments show that Steven Avery of "Making a Murderer" is innocent, his lawyer says.
Prosecutors said Avery fatally shot Teresa Halbach, burned her body and then drove her RAV4 to a corner of the yard, leaving his blood in multiple places inside the vehicle.
But the new experiments undermine those claims, Zellner said.
For one thing, flakes of blood were found on top of the driver side’s carpet floor. But in their experiment, Zellner and James hypothesized it could not have been Avery’s because fresh blood would have soaked into the carpet instead of sitting as flakes on top of the fibers.
To prove this, they transferred two samples of blood from Avery’s sink to the RAV4, first a sample of blood that had been allowed to dry on the rim of Avery’s sink and then a sample of fresh blood from the sink.
The liquid blood soaked into the car’s carpet. The dried blood remained on top of it, casting doubt on the prosecutors’ claim that Avery bled directly from a cut finger into the car.
“The bloodstains belonging to Mr. Avery are consistent with an explanation other than Mr. Avery being in the RAV4 and depositing his blood in those locations with his actively bleeding cut finger,” James wrote in an affidavit filed with the court.
Zellner was more succinct.
“The killer took the blood out of the sink,” she told Newsweek.
Time is not an issue. James’s affidavit says he was able to deposit the blood samples in the RAV4 in less than three minutes, giving a killer plenty of time to frame a man for murder.
The video of the experiments also shows James applying fresh blood to the RAV4 near the vehicle’s ignition to show those bloodstains were most likely purposefully left by a Q-tip or some similar method—and not accidentally by Avery.
“To a reasonable degree of scientific certainty, Mr. Avery would not have deposited blood at that location with his right middle finger while turning the key in the ignition,” James wrote in his affidavit.
Defense attorney Kathleen Zellner conducted experiments that she says show Steven Avery is innocent of murder. In this one, a bloodstain expert applied blood near the ignition in the same type of car as the murder victim to disprove what prosecutors said at trial.
James also wrote that if Avery had actually driven the RAV4 while he was actively bleeding, he would have left blood and bloody fingerprints in more places inside and outside the vehicle.
The last experiment shown in the video above was conducted to cast doubt on the amount of blood prosecutors said was spilled inside the RAV4.
In October, a county judge turned down Avery’s motion for a new trial, but his appeal will now be considered by a Wisconsin appeals court, online court records state.
http://www.newsweek.com/steven-avery-appeal-blood-evidence-innocent-guilty-kathleen-zellner-making-762639
HuNuWutWen wrote:
ReplyDeleteDuring his deposition, Gene Kusche stated with arrogant certainty that (paraphrase) "DNA can be faked..."...please do tell, Gene...
... Gene also was quick to discount the provenance of the DNA evidence which irrefutably exonerated Steven, again arrogantly declaring (paraphrase) "we are detectives, and as detectives we need to know from where this evidence comes...", as though there existed any question as to the validity of said evidence...a false premise to be sure, yet there's G man Gene attempting to throw shade at the truth...AGAIN !...
...no other individual in this fiasco is quite so attached to all the "evidence" as our man Gene...the "pencil"...
..............................................................................................
...I need to determine WHO planted Steven's blood in the Rav4...nothing else really matters, at this point...as long as that blood evidence stands in the trial record, Steven stays put...
...therefore, I need to know WHO KNEW WHAT about such things, forensics, crime scene tech, "detective" stuff...hmmm...
... also, it is helpful to determine the timelines and chronological sequence of events, to better inform us as to WHEN particular actions/deeds occurred...
...I say, Gene is our guy for planting the blood in the Rav4... he's the WHO...
...clearly, Gene had FBI as well as mil. intel training...so he KNEW WHAT to do...
... the Rav4, in the covered trailer, after leaving ASY, took an unaccounted for long time to arrive in Madison...this unaccounted for time window is WHEN Gene planted Steven's blood inside Teresa's Rav4...
...so, there ya go, HuNuWutWen... all we need to do now is PROVE IT !...simple, right ?...
...unfortunately, Gene is no longer with us, so he'll not confess...
...MTSO circled the wagons decades ago, they've gotten away with it, simply by STFU...this is the real World, it's naive and childish to waste time wishing that someone will sprout a conscience all of a sudden...but, what if....
...what if "they" could blame it ALL on Gene...after all, he was the one who traced Steven's mug shot...Gene himself knew that Steven was innocent...yet, he fraudulently forged the mugshot anyway...this tells us something about Gene, right ?...
...and he also knew about the "Steve is innocent" jailhouse rumor...
...and he was involved with the letter...
...and Gene was pissed that Tom was backstabbing him and bailing on the underlings...Gene saw an opportunity, he took advantage...
... the obvious personal connections of Gene to the '85 case, Gene to the cover-up, Gene to the lawsuit, Gene to the Zips, Gene's demeanor and statements throughout this travesty are clearly unique to any other players...he is involved at each stage, he is integral , everywhere you look, there's Gene, or something he drew, or something he said, or some disingenuous assertion he has foisted upon us...
... Gene and the Zips are in this thing up to their eyeballs...
... gotta prove it...
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/7n7mrr/serious_question_about_evidence_planting/
The battery cables on the RAV4 were disconnected, per standard protocol, just before or shortly after it was brought into the Madison Crime Lab on the 5th (between the 5th & 6th technically since it got there around midnight). Neither Ertl nor anyone else was ever asked about in what state the battery cables were found when it arrived, or whether anyone at the crime lab had them disconnected per protocol. Importantly, however, no one has denied that the cables were not disconnected per protocol.
ReplyDeleteTeresa's car battery must have died and was replaced with one that didn't fit under the battery hold-down.
The battery found in the car isn't for the car (it does fit a Jeep Wrangler).
The battery was purchased within the 12 months of Teresa's disappearance.
My opinion has been either its lights were left on or a door was left ajar when it was left by the turnaround at the old dam (East Twin River, Mishicot).
The likelihood that the battery cables were unhooked when it was delivered to the crime lab also explains why the driver door was mysteriously unlocked on Sunday morning - they had to get the hood open somehow to get to the battery.
Congratulations!! I think you have just answered the long puzzling question: who unlocked the RAV? If, indeed, protocol was to disconnect the battery of any vehicle brought to the crime lab, then someone -- Ertl? who? -- disconnected that battery that night, after their long 200 mile drive. How is another question, because where did they get a key? Or did they, more likely, use a slim jim? Guilters have said that the crime lab made a key and they opened the RAV that Sunday morning, but no one ever reported or testified to that. They did make a key, but I think the RAV was already open when they got there, very likely for the reason you say.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/9eptom/who_unhooked_the_battery_cables/
[–]that_1_friend
ReplyDeleteThink about this
Yes, it could be far fetched that someone would plant blood from the sink. However, there was blood in the house and his Grand AM when they investigated. They didn’t need to use his fresh blood in the RAV. All they needed was a few swabs of blood, from either the sink, the house, or his car, and label it “RAV4” while also planting his 1996 blood in the RAV that never actually got tested for EDTA. This happens more often than people realize when cops think they have their man.
So, KZ may not be right about planting all the sink blood in the RAV, but she did show that someone could have reconstituted and swabbed his blood and sent that in for testing.
[–]madeye123[S]
They didn’t need to use his fresh blood in the RAV. All they needed was a few swabs of blood, from either the sink, the house, or his car and label it “RAV4”
Just run me through that again.
They use the vial(old blood) to plant the blood in the car and the blood around the house is collected and labelled "RAV4". Are you saying that they collect the blood around the house and label it RAV4 so that if it's tested for age it comes out as relatively new blood?
Just trying to understand your theory as best as possible.
[–]that_1_friend
Yep.
They knew they couldn’t test the blood from the vial, but they could send in the swabs from his house or Grand AM.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/9qoq2t/hmmm_im_really_unsure_now_convince_me_otherwise/
It's a small world after all Andy..... (self.TickTockManitowoc)
ReplyDeleteby CaseFilesReviewer[π°]
I finally found a source that allowed reverse lookup on BCI (Battery Counsel International) Group Size to be performed. To my surprise & delight, very few vehicles use a group size 58 thereby the MT-58 only fits the following vehicles:
Ford Crown Victorian
Ford T-Bird
Ford Tempo
Jeep Wrangler
Kia Sportage
Mazda B2000
I knew it fit Jeep Wrangers, but not of Crown Vics. Crown Vics, of course, are commonly used in Law Enforcement as demonstrated by the photo within the article linked below:
http://www.wssociety.co.uk/features/2016/4/13/junkyard-justice
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/9ukaxa/its_a_small_world_after_all_andy/
[–]DrCarlSpackler
ReplyDeleteThere was an effort to disconnect or remove the battery that was aborted after the car was driven in to the ASY.
I have always believed it likely the planting of the Rav was a result of LE's tunnel vision to "spruce up" the evidence to hasten Avery's arrest.
If that battery belonged to a police Interceptor, there would be maintenance logs for the replacement battery that will dramatically narrow down the donor vehicle. Corroborated with the time-line and you have an ever decreasing pool of potential planters.
I think KZ intends to smoke out the planter of the Rav because she has records of the handful of interceptors that might have been the donor.
The Rav was driven in.
Headlights observed.
Witness saw two vehicles.
The Rav was parked too tight not to have driven under it's own power and there was no room or evidence that it was winched from the front.
Therefore the battery was connected on evening of the 4th and the Rav was not towed into the ASY. This only leaves the planter of the Rav as the only person under the hood on the evening of the 4th near crusher row.
If the battery is from an Interceptor, it would be missed. The planter risked contaminating the scene at night trying to work on the car under pressure. If the battery was meant to be removed while Chuck and Steve were looking for lights, a person might end up rushing.
And why would Avery give a crap about the battery if he had the key? He would not feel any rush because he lived there and presumably had 5 days to deal with the Rav...if you believe the State's story that Rav never left the ASY. In arguendo, Avery would not incapacitate a car so close to his house if guilty: he would want to move the car of a murdered girl far away, if involved.
If the flyovers were really done to scout out a hiding spot for the Rav, then the dry labbing is to fix the mistake of the rushed job after the fact. KZ believes dry-labbing of the latch-licking/groin rubbing under the hood occurred. The obvious misdirect through controlling the investigation seems calculated to point to Avery despite any articulate reason
It sure looks like the MTSO was omniscient about what and where they would find.
"Pagel and the new girl (Baldwin)..."
The afternoon of the fourth.
The raw footage has never been obtained and the shaky video debatebly shows that the Rav was not there daylight on the fourth.
I think the flyover footage was short-changed by Ken's strategy of using sparse exhibits that were calculated to cast a wide net by omitting any refutable details.
Examples: The typed up call details instead of the singular paperwork, the admonishment of Culhane to avoid being too technical for the jury, The one-off EDTA test lacking the detail to meet Daubert et seq, & etc.
The utter lack of specific wrongdoing by Avery left little to refute. Ken's arguments mutated yet always came back to the refrain of "Killer SA" despite conflict. Ken had a talent for keeping specifics vague and using the momentum of the office to lull juries into not questioning the State's conclusionary aspersions.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/9xe0c0/well_ill_be_the_battery_was_replaced_with_a_wrong/