Avery's credibility and claim to $36 million was destroyed when he was charged with being a felon in possession of a fire arm on November 9, 2005, one day before Kocourek's deposition was to take place. He was then charged with Teresa's murder on November 15, 2005, the day Vogel was set to be deposed. [Source]THE FOLLOWING ARE EXCERPTS FROM THE NOVEMBER 6, 2005 POLICE INTERVIEW BY MARINETTE COUNTY SHERIFF’S DEPARTMENT DETECTIVE ANTHONY O’NEILL AND DCI AGENT KIM SKORLINSKI (THIS WAS THE SECOND TIME O'NEILL INTERVIEWED AVERY)
Transcription by Redditor Nexious:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/b79exnahkck553j/%5B2005%2011%2006%5D%20-%20Steven%20Avery%20Police%20Interview.pdf?dl=0
O’NEILL: Ok. Now, Kim has some other questions that he wants to ask you and him and I've been talking and he's got probably more questions than I do because he's trying to fill in some stuff as well, so. Uh, he's going to ask you some things.
SKORLINSKI: Steve, after she left, what did you do? What do — you know, if you can remember, in the afternoon?
AVERY: Well I went — I put the book in the house by the computer, and then I uh, I walked by my sister's and to see if Bobby was home yet. But he just left.
SKORLINSKI: And what sister is that?
AVERY: Barbara.
SKORLINSKI: Was she home?
AVERY: No. She was at work.
SKORLINSKI: And Bobby had just left?
AVERY: Yeah.
SKORLINSKI: Ok. Did you go in her house?
AVERY: No.
SKORLINSKI: Ok. And what'd you do after that?
AVERY: Then I went back home.
SKORLINSKI: And did you — and how long did you stay at your house?
AVERY: Quite a while. Then my ma came down a little while after that.
SKORLINSKI: Are we, are we to the supper hour yet on Monday?
AVERY: No, no.
SKORLINSKI: Ok. Still in the afternoon?
AVERY: Yeah.
SKORLINSKI: Ok. Do you know — do you remember what you were doing, in your house?
AVERY: Probably listened to the stereo.
SKORLINSKI: Ok. And then your mom came over?
AVERY: Yeah, with my mail.
SKORLINSKI: Do you remember what time that was?
AVERY: It was just, probably just a little while after she left, she came down.
SKORLINSKI: After, after Teresa left?
AVERY: Yeah.
SKORLINSKI: Not too long after —
AVERY: No, not too long.
SKORLINSKI: How long did your mom stay? She brought your mail?
AVERY: Yeah, she brought my mail. She stayed, I don't know, five minutes, somewhere in there. I don't know, I don't, can't remember.
SKORLINSKI: And then, and then you were home in the afternoon?
AVERY: Yeah.
SKORLINSKI: Did you go anywhere else?
AVERY: No.
SKORLINSKI: Did, umm, during — during supper time did you eat alone or did you have — did you eat with your mom, or?
AVERY: Uh, I think I ate up by Ma's house. Because, a lot of times I would eat supper by Ma's house. Pretty much time.
SKORLINSKI: So, you think you may have eaten supper at Mom's house?
AVERY: Yeah.
SKORLINSKI: Ok. What'd you do after supper then?
AVERY: Well, mostly it was home at, all night.
SKORLINSKI: Then you went back home?
AVERY: Yeah.
SKORLINSKI: Do you recall going anywhere?
AVERY: No, because Jodi calls me all the time.
SKORLINSKI: Ok. And that's your girlfriend?
AVERY: That's my fiancé.
SKORLINSKI: Does she have a certain time where she can call out?
AVERY: No, she can call out all times of the day.
SKORLINSKI: And, do you remember getting a phone call from her on Monday night?
AVERY: Yeah. I think I got two of 'em.
SKORLINSKI: Ok. Do you remember those times, approximately?
AVERY: I don't remember.
SKORLINSKI: Was it on your cellphone?
AVERY: No, it was on the house phone.
SKORLINSKI: So, you think you, you may have called her but as far as going into town or anything like that, you didn't on Monday?
AVERY: No, no I didn't go nowhere .
SKORLINSKI: You're either home, or over at your mom's for a while after supper.
AVERY: Yeah.
SKORLINSKI: Do you remember who else ate over at your mom's house? Was it just you and her?
AVERY: I don't know if Chuckie was there or not. I know me and Ma.
SKORLINSKI: Ok. What about Tuesday?
AVERY: Tuesday? Tuesday, I went up to work, at eight o'clock.
SKORLINSKI: At eight o'clock?
AVERY: Yeah. I'm mostly up there.
SKORLINSKI: Up at the shop?
AVERY: Yeah.
SKORLINSKI: At eight o'clock?
AVERY: Yeah.
SKORLINSKI: And who was there?
AVERY: Well, Ma was there. Uh, Dad comes home Tuesday morning.
SKORLINSKI: Mm - hmm.
AVERY: Umm, Chuckie and Earl.
SKORLINSKI: And how long did you work on Tuesday?
AVERY: Tuesday, uh, hmm five o'clock.
[...]
SKORLINSKI: Friday, you're working. And then at some point, umm, you and is it, umm, Earl are sighting in a rifle or something?
AVERY: That was Friday.
SKORLINSKI: Was that Friday?
AVERY: Friday.
SKORLINSKI: Ok. Is that after work or during the day?
AVERY: No. During the day.
SKORLINSKI: Ok. And, and where do you guys do that at?
AVERY: Down in the pit.
SKORLINSKI: Ok.
AVERY: Where they'll crush cars.
SKORLINSKI: Ok.
O’NEILL: What time was that about, you think? Was it lunch time or?
AVERY: No, it was after lunch.
O’NEILL: So, sometimes when you're actually on work —
AVERY: Probably, uh, between one and three maybe.
O’NEILL: So during the time that you're saying that you're working you could be out doing other things at your own leisure type stuff?
AVERY: No. Just, he wanted to sight it in for hunting.
O’NEILL: So you just took a break from work —
AVERY: Did it in about five minutes.
O’NEILL: And went out and did it [unintelligible]?
AVERY: Yeah
[...]
SKORLINSKI: Ok. So, Friday you guys sight in the rifle, and then, umm, Friday night when does Chuck come up here? Does he come up here on Friday night?
AVERY: Well, Thursday night we got to go get, uh, lumber.
SKORLINSKI: Ok. All right.
AVERY: Because we were leaving out the driveway and I seen lights by my place.
SKORLINSKI: Ok. And when you say you seen lights by your place —
AVERY: I seen tail lights.
SKORLINSKI: Going away from your place.
AVERY: No, going by it.
SKORLINSKI: Ok. On what road?
AVERY: This is on the long way, I've seen it. Because we were going by the, almost by the stop sign —
SKORLINSKI: Ok.
AVERY: And I looked, and I spotted the lights.
O’NEILL: [ To Skorlinski ] Can you get the [ unintelligible ] please?
SKORLINSKI: [ To O'Neill ] Where's that?
O’NEILL: [ To Skorlinski ] The big black thing underneath the — the very bottom.
SKORLINSKI: [ To O'Neill ] Is that where the diagram is?
O’NEILL: [ To Skorlinski ] I want to do a new one.
[...]
O’NEILL: Ok. So this is where the van was. And where does she park, Teresa?
AVERY: Uh, when she came, I don't know she parked uh, about right there.
O’NEILL: Ok. And that was a green SUV, right?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: Which way was she facing?
AVERY: That way.
O’NEILL: This way?
AVERY: Yeah.
SKORLINSKI: And you saw her from — where'd you see her from?
AVERY: The house.
SKORLINSKI: Your, your house.
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: And you were there since 11 you said, right?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: Who else was home at Barb's house when she came, do you know?
AVERY: Bobby was.
O’NEILL: Bobby?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: Ok. Anybody else that was home, that you know of? Bryan? was that your other —
AVERY: No, Bryan was working.
O’NEILL: So Bobby was home.
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: Where's Barb at?
AVERY: Barb was working too.
O’NEILL: So, Bobby was at the house.
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: How do you, how do you know he was there?
AVERY: After, after I went over there, then —
O’NEILL: So, later after you got done with her —
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: Then you went over to Barb's, you said?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: Who was at Barb's when you were over?
AVERY: Well, he was.
O’NEILL: And nobody else?
AVERY: No, nobody else was —
O’NEILL: And why did, why did you stop at Barb's?
AVERY: I don't know. I mostly just walk right over there.
O’NEILL: Pardon?
AVERY: I just mostly walk right over there.
O’NEILL: So after she leaves, you put the Auto Trader magazine in your house.
AVERY: Yeah, and I went over there.
O’NEILL: And you walked right over, right away?
AVERY: Yeah. Well, he was gone. He'd just left.
O’NEILL: Bobby did?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: Ok. So you walk over to Barb's though, right?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: Who's there?
AVERY: After she left, when I walked over there, he — he left.
SKORLINSKI: Did you see him leave?
AVERY: No.
SKORLINSKI: So he was already gone.
AVERY: Yeah. He just left.
O’NEILL: So nobody was at Barb's then?
AVERY: No. But the first time, when I come home or before that, I went over there and I talked to Bobby.
O’NEILL: 11 O’clock?
AVERY: Yeah, somewhere in there.
AVERY: Uh, or it was after — it was 12 O’clock, because I was outside for a while.
[Teresa called about the same time Steven went over to talk to Bobby.]
O’NEILL: Ok.
AVERY: Because I went in the house.
SKORLINSKI: Barb's already gone?
AVERY: Yeah.
SKORLINSKI: Ok.
AVERY: I know I talked to him somewhere in there, I, I can't remember.
O’NEILL: But before she came, you talked to Bobby?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: And then after she left, you went over by Barb's. Bobby left.
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: What'd Bobby leave — what, what did he drive somewhere or take —
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: What'd he drive?
AVERY: Yeah, he took his Blazer.
O’NEILL: Do you know where he went?
AVERY: No.
O’NEILL: Ok. So when you're there at 11 O’clock , sometime after 11 O’clock , you actually talk to Bobby?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: And then, you go back to your place?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: And then, when the lady comes at two o’clock you talk to her. Then you get done with her and you go back over to Barb's but Bobby's gone because the Blazer's gone?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: Did you go inside there at all?
AVERY: No, no.
O’NEILL: Ok. Where'd you go from there?
AVERY: Went back home.
O’NEILL: Ok. And you stayed there up until supper time?
AVERY: Probably somewhere in there.
O’NEILL: Ok. Just wanna make sure it's —
AVERY: With my ma.
O’NEILL: All right.
SKORLINSKI: Why, why did you —
AVERY: I think, uh, I talked to Jodi before I went by Ma's house to eat.
O’NEILL: Jodi?
AVERY: My fiancé .
O’NEILL: On the phone?
AVERY: Yeah.
SKORLINSKI: Before supper, rather than after?
AVERY: Yeah.
SKORLINSKI: Do you think you talked to her after too, or not?
AVERY: Yeah, I talked to her after that, too.
SKORLINSKI: You think before.
AVERY: Well, I talked to her twice that day.
O’NEILL: She calls you?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: Predetermined times?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: What times do you have it set that you talk to her?
AVERY: Five, six O’clock.
O’NEILL: So you —
AVERY: First time.
O’NEILL: She's in jail she has to call collect, right?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: So, do you guys have it arranged that she's calling you at a specific time?
AVERY Yeah, mostly at five O’clock, you know.
O’NEILL: Every day?
AVERY: Well, most.
O’NEILL: Or is she trying all day?
AVERY: No, she ain't trying all day 'cause she knows I'm working all day.
O’NEILL: Ok. So between five and six, which normally you're out of work.
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: You're waiting at your place for a phone call from her, more than likely.
AVERY: Yeah.
SKORLINSKI: Ok.
AVERY: Most of the time, you know, at five O’clock, when I get done, I go eat, so. Then, at six O’clock when she calls.
[...]
SKORLINSKI: On Monday, after Teresa left, you didn't go back to work. Why not?
AVERY: Well, I made some, couple phone calls.
SKORLINSKI: Ok. But you didn't go back to the shop?
AVERY: No, no.
SKORLINSKI: You stayed in your house. Did they know that? Did, uh, Chuck and Earl know that you're not coming back after lunch or whatever?
AVERY: No. No, they didn't know that.
SKORLINSKI: Is it, is it run real — I mean do they, do they care?
AVERY: Oh yeah, they care.
SKORLINSKI: Oh, Ok. What I mean, did you — can you just come and go like that as you, as you please?
AVERY: No, I'm mostly —
SKORLINSKI: Is that uncommon, or?
AVERY: No, this is the first time that I stayed home.
SKORLINSKI: Ok. [ O'NEILL enters vehicle. ] And you just, you just didn't feel like going back or what?
AVERY: Nah, there's a couple phone calls I made and, no, I had to talk to her, her uh P.O. [Probation Officer], attorney, and everything else.
SKORLINSKI: Ok. So you talked to her P.O. and attorney?
AVERY: Yeah.
SKORLINSKI: Who's her P.O.?
AVERY: Uh, Shannon somebody.
SKORLINSKI: Out of Manitowoc?
AVERY: Yeah.
SKORLINSKI: And who's her attorney?
AVERY: Uh, Steve Wise, or something.
SKORLINSKI: Steve —
AVERY: Wise, from Madison.
SKORLINSKI: Steve Wise?
AVERY: Wase? I don't know, something like that.
SKORLINSKI: So you to them. You make any other phone calls on Monday afternoon?
AVERY: No, I think I called 'em once or twice.
SKORLINSKI: And, and why is that? Why are you talking to her, is it her attorney and her probation agent?
AVERY: Trying to get her out.
SKORLINSKI: Oh.
AVERY: And she's — the case is on appeal.
SKORLINSKI: Ok. How long does she have?
AVERY: Uh, she got nine months. She got three months left.
SKORLINSKI: And you want it sooner, you want her out sooner than that.
AVERY: Yeah! [ Laughter.]
O’NEILL: Oh, I saw her picture I'd want her out too. [Avery Laughs.]
SKORLINSKI: Ok. And you don't remember any other calls, other than that? That's —
AVERY: Not offhand.
SKORLINSKI: Ok.
AVERY: You'd have to check the phone.
SKORLINSKI: Did, did Teresa say anything to you about that she had to go to somebody else's house after your place?
AVERY: No.
SKORLINSKI: She didn't mention anything.
AVERY: No, she never, uh, tells me nothing.
SKORLINSKI: She doesn't say "oh," you know, like, "do you know so - and - so who lives down the road 'cause I gotta go shoot there, uh, shoot their car next to it?"
AVERY: No, no, no. No, it's mostly a "hi" and, you know, that's about it.
SKORLINSKI: Real short conversations.
AVERY: It's always she takes the picture, she writes down the serial number, and that's it.
SKORLINSKI: Then you pay?
AVERY: Yeah.
SKORLINSKI: And sometimes she gives a receipt.
AVERY: Yeah.
SKORLINSKI: Usually —
AVERY: Well, the last two times I didn't get nothin'. I ain't got no problems with them, and I've been doing it for I don't know a year, little more than a year. So I figure, well, like, why'd I need it?
SKORLINSKI: Do you know somebody George Zipper?
AVERY: George Zipper?
SKORLINSKI: Yeah.
AVERY: Uh - uh.
SKORLINSKI: She didn't drop — she didn't say that name at all or anything?
AVERY: No, no.
[...]
SKORLINSKI: Now, on Thursday night, you saw tail lights. Can you show me on that diagram where the tail lights were?
AVERY: Well, they seemed like they were behind me. So, in here.
SKORLINSKI: Is that a road?
AVERY: No, it's a hill.
SKORLINSKI: Ok. Is it —
AVERY: But you could drive on it.
SKORLINSKI: Ok. And they were behind your house.
AVERY: That's what it seemed like.
SKORLINSKI: And they were coming, which direction?
AVERY: The tail lights were back here. So they had to been going this way.
SKORLINSKI: Ok. And what is back there? I keep following those —
AVERY: It's all gravel pit. That's Radandt's here, and that goes out behind us.
SKORLINSKI: So, is there an access road back there or something?
AVERY: Yeah, there's all — it's all open.
SKORLINSKI: It' s open. So anybody could just drive on that.
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: Where'd they come in from?
AVERY: Radandt's pit.
O’NEILL: Ok. Why don't you draw that back area of the pit. Kind of, like if you were to come in from the backside, draw us a diagram of how you would come in from the backside.
AVERY: That's 'Q'.
O’NEILL: Is that Highway Q?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: Ok.
AVERY: I don't know. Let's see. There's a side road here. Uh, it goes like this. It's all blacktopped. There's some houses here [this would be Kuss Road].
O’NEILL: Do you know who lives there? Just to give us some reference. I mean, do you know what the name of the road is?
AVERY: No, I can't remember what the name of the road is [this would be Kuss Road]. But uh, Radandt's pit is here. He's got, uh, all machinery and all gravel here. Then they got a, I don't know, there's a — where uh, a road goes back by us. Then you can go this way. Let's see, this would be us, in here. Then there's a conveyor here. But you can go underneath that conveyor, and get by us too, here. Or this way. This way's all blocked off, for what, it was for maybe a month or so. And then this is all open. So, you can go, go anywhere really.
O’NEILL: Ok. So what business is this?
AVERY: That's Radandt's.
O’NEILL: Radandt's?
AVERY: Yeah. Radandt.
O’NEILL: Redon?
AVERY: Radandt.
O’NEILL: Radandt's Gravel?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: And you said this is a conveyor?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: Like, uh, to transport gravel?
AVERY: Yeah. It's been there for quite a while.
O’NEILL: And this is a road, or is it your property?
AVERY: No, that's our property.
O’NEILL: So, a person could essentially go down County Q, down to Radandt's Gravel, you say?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: And then drive in through the back of Radandt's Gravel?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: Underneath the conveyor, and it brings them to —
AVERY: To the back of the, uh, junkyard.
O’NEILL: And is that a gated thing, or fenced in thing, or blocked off road you said?
AVERY: No. It's just, they put a hill there, as a property line.
O’NEILL: Ok. So there's like a hill. So, to get through that hill, to get back into your property —
AVERY: Well, it only goes so far. Then there's, there's this open. The cars block —
O’NEILL: So you could — the cars are blocking the area there so to drive in you have to pass those cars.
AVERY: Yeah, otherwise we got a, we got a car there 'cause we used to get gravel from Radandt.
O’NEILL: Uh - huh.
AVERY: And sometimes, we'd take that car out of the way, and put it back, you know, and —
O’NEILL: Just to block that road so you can't get in.
AVERY: Yeah. Yeah, but then the other side is all open. Or otherwise you can go up, you can go up on the hill —
O’NEILL: Uh - huh.
AVERY: I mean like, I'm back over here. And you can get through there and everything else. Or you take this road, and that uh, there's a field there. And you can drive the field.
O’NEILL: So some person would really have to know the area back here to get back into that back area, right?
AVERY: I don't know.
O’NEILL: I mean I couldn't just think, "Ok I want to drive back into Avery property," and I mean, would I be able to poke my way back there —
AVERY: Yeah you'd have to — yeah.
O’NEILL: I probably wouldn't be able to do it, would I?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: I would?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: Ok.
AVERY: Yeah, they got a, they caught quite a few people back there already.
O’NEILL: All right.
SKORLINSKI: You talk to the Sherriff's Department or whatever, trespassing?
AVERY: Well, yeah. Radandt, and then he calls the cops, and —
SKORLINSKI: Well, and that's what we — you know, and that's what we're looking at. Because let's go back to that other, this map. Uh, what's, what direction is south on here?
AVERY: South would be on top, yeah.
O’NEILL: So, where's, where's north, down here?
AVERY: North would be here.
O’NEILL: So, if I were to draw an arrow, where's north, down here?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: Ok.
SKORLINSKI: Now, do you know where her car was found?
AVERY: No.
SKORLINSKI: Ok. It's on that south property line, by that berm, is that that little hill you're talking about? That hill you —
AVERY: By the pond?
SKORLINSKI: Uh, no, I think it's by the pit. There's, you just said there's a hill or something?
AVERY: Well there's uh, let's see. Now here's Chuckie. Uh, there's a road here that goes down in the pit.
SKORLINSKI: Mm - hmm.
AVERY: You know, and uh, there's a, a property line that is built up. And then it goes all the way this way.
SKORLINSKI: All right. Where are —
AVERY: And they all dug, that's all dug out.
SKORLINSKI: Ok. Where are the cars parked back there on that south side?
AVERY: They're all in here.
SKORLINSKI: Ok. And that's where, that's where her car was found.
AVERY: So anywhere in here?
SKORLINSKI: Mm - hmm.
O’NEILL: I asked you about describing what she was wearing that day. Do you remember at all, again? Did you think about that?
AVERY: I can't remember what she was wearing.
O’NEILL: Ok. And you didn't have any conversation with her other than —
AVERY: No. We never do.
O’NEILL: Did she ask you how much you wanted for your vehicle and stuff like that?
AVERY: No, no.
O’NEILL: How does she get that information?
AVERY: Well, got it on a piece of paper.
O’NEILL: Who gave her a piece of paper?
AVERY: I did.
O’NEILL: Ok. You didn't tell me that yesterday. So, she's there, she's outside taking pictures, you said, right away.
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: You go outside. What do you have with you that you're bringing to her?
AVERY: That's the piece of paper with the money. 'Cause, see the money's — put it in a piece of paper.
O’NEILL: And, and you did that.
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: Who wrote up the piece of paper?
AVERY: I did.
O’NEILL: Did you do it inside the house before she came?
AVERY: Oh that was done, I don't know, maybe Saturday.
O’NEILL: Who did that?
AVERY: I did that.
O’NEILL: Ok. what'd it say on this paper?
AVERY: Uh, "For Sale. 1989 Dodge Van. Make an Offer." And it had the phone numbers.
O’NEILL: Ok. And you had the money in there and everything else, you gave it to her?
AVERY: Yeah. I would have my — her number and my cellphone number.
O’NEILL: Ok. As far as what she was wearing, I mean, if you could just close your eyes and think about it, you know, could you think about what she was possibly wearing?
AVERY: I don't know.
O’NEILL: Ok. And then you gave her the money while she's getting you the book, or do you give it to her right away, or?
AVERY: I gave it to her right away.
O’NEILL: When she's taking the pictures.
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: How do you get to the point of going from the van where she's taking the picture, to her vehicle for the book.
AVERY: I walk.
O’NEILL: She tell you that — you ask her for a book?
AVERY: No. She said, uh, "I got the book in the truck."
O’NEILL: Ok. And every time that she comes she gives you a book?
AVERY: Yeah, yeah.
O’NEILL: So then you follow her towards the truck?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: What happens next?
AVERY: Well, she gives me the book.
O’NEILL: She opens the door up?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: Ok. She get inside, or she just reach inside?
AVERY: No, she opened the door. She got in. Then she reached over.
O’NEILL: So she closed the door?
AVERY: No.
O’NEILL: She leaves the door open.
AVERY: The door's open.
O’NEILL: She sit down inside?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: She reaches over to where to get the book?
AVERY: Yeah, the passenger side.
O’NEILL: And then she just hand it out to you?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: Does she — then she, does she get back out of the truck again?
AVERY: No, no.
O’NEILL: Then she just leaves?
AVERY: Yeah. She shuts the door and leaves.
O’NEILL: Is, is Bobby home then, or no?
AVERY: Yeah, Bobby's home.
O’NEILL: Ok. And, does he come out and, or anything? Or does he see you leave, or see her leave?
AVERY: I don't know. You'd have to ask him.
O’N EILL: But you know he's home?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: Ok. Well, so —
AVERY: He's home at that point.
O’NEILL: When she leaves, he's home?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: And how far away from Bobby's vehicle are you, you think?
AVERY: Well, her — his vehicle was sitting by her [Barb's] garage. So that's only —
O’NEILL: Like from here to where? Where we're looking right here.
AVERY: Uh, from here?
O’NEILL: Yeah.
AVERY: Probably to the other side of the, the shop there.
O’NEILL: The other side of the blue shop?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: So probably about, that's about what, maybe, uh 80 feet? And, and you know he's home though, right?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: When she's leaving.
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: Ok.
AVERY: And just when I walked in the house, I come back and then he was gone.
O’NEILL: So just in that moment?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: Of you, you saying goodbye to Teresa —
AVERY: Yeah, and went in the house.
O’NEILL: Go into your house with the paper, and coming back, you notice that he's gone.
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: But while she's giving you that thing, he's still there?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: SO he — Ok.
AVERY: Within, I don't know, that second. With her vehicle running, and his is quiet.
O’NEILL: Uh - huh.
AVERY: He probably, at the same time, almost.
O’NEILL: Ok. So, but, the time that it took you to walk from her vehicle to your place, drop off that thing —
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: And then to walk right back outside again?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: He's gone.
AVERY: He's gone.
O’NEILL: Ok. Do you know where she's at?
AVERY: Who?
O’NEILL: Teresa.
AVERY: Oh, no.
O’NEILL: And did you have anything to do her at all, disappearing, or?
AVERY: No, no.
O’NEILL: Ok. And the only time that she's ever been to your house she'd just knock on the door.
AVERY: Yeah, that's it.
O’NEILL: Tell us about that time. When was that? How long ago? 15 times that you've had contact with her. When do you think it was that she actually came to the door?
AVERY: How many times?
O’NEILL: The last time?
AVERY: Monday.
O’NEILL: She came to the door?
AVERY: No.
O’NEILL: Ok.
AVERY: I seen her. The last time she knocked at the door, oh that was probably for my car.
O’NEILL: How long ago would that had been.
AVERY: A week, two?
O’NEILL: Ok. But she never came inside?
AVERY: No.
O’NEILL: And, seeing that you remember about your car when she knocks on the door, what time of day was that, that she did that contact with you?
AVERY: Mmm, that was around three O’clock .
O’NEILL: So that was like, again, you called up and said "hey I have a vehicle to sell?"
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: And they came over that same day?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: You're at home.
AVERY: Well, I don't know if I had made it that Monday, I could had made it during the week.
O’NEILL: Ok. So she came over, knocks on the door —
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: And, what happens?
AVERY: I got the money. I mostly got it all made out. It's on the bar, or by the computer.
O’NEILL: Ok.
AVERY: So that's all done, then I grab that then give it to her.
O’NEILL: Outside?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: And then, she give you another one of those books again?
AVERY: Yeah, she always does.
O’NEILL: Then she took pictures of your vehicle?
AVERY: Yeah. But that was about three o’clock because I called her, and then she called me back.
O’NEILL: Ok.
AVERY: On that one. 'Cause she was going to be running late so it'd be about three o’clock , she said.
O’NEILL: So if she runs late, she gives you a call.
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: But she was never inside the house, that's the only time that she's knocked on the door that you recall . Or was there other times that she knocked on the door, too? Probably was?
AVERY: Yeah, there probably was. Maybe at first. I can't remember, that's so long ago.
O’NEILL: Yeah, and it's always been her?
AVERY: Yeah. It's always been her.
O’NEILL: Ok.
SKORLINSKI: Did she call you on Monday, prior to coming over at two o’clock?
AVERY: Not this time, no. Last —
SKORLINSKI: Are you sure?
AVERY: Yeah.
SKORLINSKI: You sure she didn't call and say "I'm going to be early," or "I'm going to be late," or anything like that?
AVERY: No.
O’NEILL: Who's number is seven —
AVERY: That's my sister's.
O’NEILL: Would she had called her for any reason?
AVERY: That's the one whose the, the van is under.
O’NEILL: Is that Barb?
AVERY: Yeah. Yeah, the van is underneath her name.
O’NEILL: So the contact information on that sheet of paper you had for how much you want the van for and stuff, whose number was on there, listed?
AVERY: That was Barbara's and mine.
O’NEILL: So both of your numbers.
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: Ok.
AVERY: That's how we mostly do it.
SKORLINSKI: Ok. She called this number on Monday morning. Just before noon. Was — Barb wasn't home though, huh?
AVERY: No, she was at work.
SKORLINSKI: Bobby would had been home, right?
AVERY: Yeah, yeah.
SKORLINSKI: You were not in your sister's house —
AVERY: No.
SKORLINSKI: At, at quarter to twelve.
AVERY: No.
SKORLINSKI: She never — Teresa never said, "oh, by the way I just called and talked to your nephew," or anything like that?
AVERY: No.
SKORLINSKI: She never said that.
AVERY: See. He works third shift.
SKORLINSKI: Ok.
AVERY: Sometimes he's sleeping, and sometimes he's up.
O’NEILL: About the receipt. You said, for the most part, up until at least two times, you always had gotten a receipt from her, right?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: This last time you didn't ask for a receipt?
AVERY: No. When I put my Pontiac in, I thought "I don't need no more of them." I said, "what for?"
O’NEILL: Ok.
AVERY: Uh, I got good service, with the truck.
O’NEILL: Mm - hmm.
AVERY: I trust them.
O’NEILL: When she did write out a receipt, I mean, she, she'd have it to you right away, or?
AVERY: Yeah, yeah.
O’NEILL: She got into her vehicle, or she —
AVERY: No, she had it done all the way.
O’NEILL: She had it done, beforehand.
AVERY: Yeah, yeah.
O’NEILL: So, when you — at the point up until you're selling your Pontiac, you always got a receipt from her. But then, with the Pontiac, you said, "hey, I don't need a receipt no more."
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: So you said "no more."
AVERY: I don't need no more.
O’NEILL: So then it comes Monday, she doesn't prepare a receipt for you at all?
AVERY: Oh, I don't know.
SKORLINSKI: She doesn't give you a receipt right?
AVERY: No, no.
SKORLINSKI: Ok.
AVERY: So, she must have it with her, or, or whatever.
SKORLINSKI: Ok.
AVERY: 'Cause I told her, "I don't need no more." What for?
O’NEILL: And then, like you told me, that your sister asked you if you'd give her the money, 'cause she didn't have it or what?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: Ok.
AVERY: She didn't have it to spare, so I said, "well that ain't no problem, I can handle that for now."
SKORLINSKI: [ To O'Neill ] I'm gonna jump out and make a phone call. Can you have him, uh, initial or sign and date those sheets that he drew then for us?
O’NEILL: [ To Skorlinski ] Sure.
AVERY: Sure.
SKORLINSKI: [ To O'Neill ] Ok. Thanks, I'll be a second.
O’NEILL: I'm gonna throw my initials on there. Throw yours on there. How's your dad doing, is he doing all right?
AVERY: Yeah, he's doing better. [ Laughter. ]
O’NEILL: How much did he have to drink last night?
AVERY: Pretty much! [ Laughter. ]
O’NEILL: Yeah?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: Yeah. He's a nice guy though, I like him.
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: He's probably seen a lot more accident scenes than I'd ever seen in my whole life, right?
AVERY: [ Laughter. ] Yeah.
O’NEILL: Do you ever — as a kid growing up, I mean, you and I are about the same age — I was born in '61, you were born in '62? So, we went through the 70s and 80s, eh?
AVERY: Yeah, that's where [those were] the good days.
O’NEILL: Yeah. So, God did like Dad, always do towing then, for the —
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: Sherriff's department and everybody else?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: So he come home with stories?
AVERY: But now we don't get nothing.
O’NEILL: Really?
AVERY: We haven't been getting none.
O’NEILL: Why not?
AVERY: Since I had that sexual assault with Penny Beernsten.
O’NEILL: So, so that cut into the business?
AVERY: Oh yeah.
O’NEILL: That, that sucks.
AVERY: Well, they don't, they don't call Avery's no more. They call everybody else. You know, can have an accident right down the road and they'll call somebody else.
O’NEILL: Don't you say hey, "I'm — add us on the list?" I mean —
AVERY: Chuck and Earl, they complain all the time.
O’NEILL: And they won't put you on a list.
AVERY: Well, they put us on a list. We get all the abandoned ones. But after them, we don't get either. We get the junk.
O’NEILL: Did you call them on it?
AVERY: Oh yeah, quite a few times.
O’NEILL: And they still ain't -
AVERY: No.
O’NEILL: That sucks.
AVERY: I think they're out to get me.
O’NEILL: Well —
AVERY: I'm, with this other case with the lawsuit and everything else. I don't know.
O’NEILL: Mm - hmm. Well I guess, you, you know, you probably wonder yourself. But, you got to take and think about the factual things. I mean, someone actually goes through the problems and troubles to put her car on your property? You know? I mean, I'm not from there. I have no allegiance to the idea of what Manitowoc County does. It's like, I’m trying to understand this, Steve. It's like, "wait, this is pretty wild."
AVERY: Yeah, well when I talk to the TVs too, they don't understand it.
O’NEILL: I mean, you know we're not young guys that are just basically thinking about things that we might've saw on TV and try to apply it to real life. We got some experience in our back pocket, you know? Far as your relationship with your fiancé, it's a good relationship?
AVERY: Oh yeah.
O’NEILL: Yeah.
AVERY: Yeah, sometimes we argue over the phone, you know, when —
O’NEILL: Yeah.
AVERY: I did a lot of that too.
O’NEILL: Yeah?
AVERY: I did quite a bit of that at first.
O’NEILL: Arguing?
AVERY: Oh yeah.
O’NEILL: Yeah. You got a temper? You're not Irish, right?
AVERY: No. Well I got a little Irish in me.
O’NEILL: Me, I got a lot.
AVERY: But since I've been out, you know I get, uh, I don't know, I talk loud once in a while, you know.
O’NEILL: Mm - hmm.
AVERY: But that's about it.
O’NEILL: Does she, she talk loud too or?
AVERY: Mmm, yeah all - especially when she was drinking.
O’NEILL: Yeah.
AVERY: That's how we got in that, that scrap. I just kind of pushed her on the couch, you know, to tell her to sit down. And that's why they arrested me, cause I touched her and just put her on the couch.
O’NEILL: how long ago was that?
AVERY: Mmm, over a year ago I think.
O’NEILL: And she's on probation, right?
AVERY: Now she is, yeah.
O’NEILL: What's she on probation for?
AVERY: For that drunken driving.
O’NEILL: Is that the only issues that she has —
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: Is drinking and driving?
AVERY: Yeah, yeah.
O’NEILL: She work?
AVERY: No.
O’NEILL: No? How'd you guys meet?
AVERY: Gas station. [ Laughter. ]
O’NEILL: Really? Was she working or just —
AVERY: Yeah me and my sister — no she was just there.
O’NEILL: Uh - huh.
AVERY: And she had her car there.
O’NEILL: And just got talking and next thing you know you're hooked up, eh?
AVERY: Yep.
O’NEILL: That's pretty cool.
AVERY: But we had our, had our car and, I went with her. I drove her car, and then my sister went home. And we stopped for a soda, me and my sister's. I bought her a soda, said "I ain't coming, I'm going with her." So, then we came over by me. You know, I had to push my old Blazer and everything else 'cause I blew the motor up —
O’NEILL: Uh - huh.
AVERY: Then I smashed her front end a little bit, and, uh she was a little mad at me. You know, the first time I met her.
O’NEILL: Uh - huh.
AVERY: And I do all of this. Well I got that all done, you know we stayed there for a bit. I showed her the ice shack, what I was living in at first.
O’NEILL: Hmm.
AVERY: Then we went for a ride. Then it was foggy out. Then I put it in the ditch. Well, long story straight, she got, uh, accused for it because I took off. Had Barbara pick me up. And she went that way and, before I knew it, got arrested.
O’NEILL: So she took one for you, eh?
AVERY: Well, it ain't no — nothin' to put the car in the ditch, when it's foggy out.
O’NEILL: Mm - hmm.
AVERY: No, that's what she's fighting now.
O’NEILL: Hmm. Hey, uh, they gonna find anything inside your place, if they look? Huh?
AVERY: They were already. I let 'em in it.
O’NEILL: I'm just asking.
AVERY: I let them in it already. I ain't got nothing to hide.
O’NEILL: Ok. What about the, uh, this girl's family? I mean, what — what'd you want to tell them?
AVERY: I wish they'd find her, or, I wish she'd show up.
O’NEILL: Mm - hmm.
AVERY: So we can know — see what really happened. Or why she'd go, or what. You know, because I know my family went through hell.
O’NEILL: Mm - hmm.
AVERY: I can figure what they went through. And when I was married to my wife, we went through a lot of stuff. I could figure how they are. It ain't not nice.
O’NEILL: So you were married before.
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: Is this before you went to prison?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: Any kids?
AVERY: Five.
O’NEILL: Really? [ Laughter. ] You had five kids?
AVERY: Yep. Set of twins and that.
O’NEILL: No kidding.
AVERY: But I only see one, now. You know, the rest of them they don't want nothing to do with me.
O’NEILL: How old's your oldest?
AVERY: Uh, now you want me to do math? [ Laughter. ]
O’NEILL: No, just roughly.
AVERY: 21 - 22.
O’NEILL: Ah, you're like me. [ Laughter. ] Yeah. Wow. So then, of course, from what went on back then, I imagine it worked on your relationship with your kids —
AVERY: Oh yeah.
O’NEILL: And wife, and family, eh?
AVERY: Yeah, yeah.
O’NEILL: Is that what basically broke you guys up?
AVERY: Mostly, yeah.
O’NEILL: Yeah?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: Do the kids live around at all, or no?
AVERY: Yeah, they're — three of 'em are around.
O’NEILL: Yeah.
AVERY: And the other two are, in the army or whatever it is.
O’NEILL: Really? You had twins, eh?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: Twin boys?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: No kidding.
AVERY: That's the ones that're in there. Well, they were getting in trouble and everything else and —
O’NEILL: Uh - huh.
AVERY: I guess they had to do something.
O’NEILL: Wow. Boy.
AVERY: I just wish all of this shit was over already.
O’NEILL: Well you have to admit, you know, take a step back and take a look at it, it's kind of —
AVERY: Yeah, look at it. The goddamn vehicle's there. It's been found and it ain't gonna happen again.
O’NEILL: Yeah.
AVERY: There'll be a fence up around it.
O’NEILL: But yeah, you, you know it's easy for me to say because I'm not you. But if you try to disassociate yourself from it and take a step back and say "Ok, let's say I'm not me for a moment, I'm looking at this big picture. What do I think?" You know? It's hard to do —
AVERY: It is.
O’NEILL: But, if you can, take a step back and take a look at it and say "God," you know what's —
AVERY: Yeah and see which way you'd go.
O’NEILL: You know? Now, of course, you have an image. You know what I'm saying? And the idea of saying, "hey, uh, I'm Steve Avery. This is what I'm all about and this is what I'm not all about." You know? This family, of course, is looking at, "God," you know, "the last person that she'd seen was Steven Avery." You know. "Is he being truthful to this matter? Is he being helpful to this matter and," you know, "is he being sympathetic to our needs?" Right? So, you know, I mean you're talking to us. You're telling us exactly what we need to know as far as her last, uh, being there. And, uh, hopefully you know next week we're all talking about the idea that this is, you know, we found her, you know? Hopefully she's safe.
AVERY: I hope so.
O’NEILL: Yeah.
AVERY: Not for my sake, but for her family's sake.
O’NEILL: Mm - hmm.
AVERY: 'Cause I know how it feels. My other kids don't want nothing to do with me. And that's almost the same thing, I don't see 'em.
O’NEILL: When you had your other thing, you know? Did you offer to do anything like take a polygraph or anything like that, or? Did you take one? What happened?
AVERY: I passed it.
O’NEILL: You passed your polygraph? So you're pretty comfortable with, back then, taking a polygraph to show that you were being truthful?
AVERY: They don't do shit though, that's the only thing.
O’NEILL: What do you mean?
AVERY: They aren't reliable. Uh —
O’NEILL: Who who, who offered you the polygraph back then? Law enforcement or your attorney, or?
AVERY: My attorney from Milwaukee.
O’NEILL: And you passed it. This is when you were already in prison, or?
AVERY: Yeah, I was in Green Bay.
O’NEILL: How long were you in prison for, then?
AVERY: A couple years, I think.
O’NEILL: And law enforcement never offered you a polygraph?
AVERY: No, I set one up.
O’NEILL: Mm - hmm.
AVERY: In Manitowoc when I was there.
O’NEILL: Mm - hmm.
AVERY: But then, uh, got uh, my attorney canceled it.
O’NEILL: Mm - hmm. So they — the law enforcement if they actually would've done a polygraph back then may have found you to be not deceptive. To be truthful about this whole t hing, and worked out from there, eh?
AVERY: My opinion?
O’NEILL: Yeah.
AVERY: Eh, from Manitowoc? I don't know. I ain't got too much faith in Manitowoc.
O’NEILL: Hmm. But back then though, you weren't colored by that —
AVERY: No. Well that's why I wanted to set it up.
O’NEILL: Right.
AVERY: You know?
O’NEILL: But now —
AVERY: I said I'd give it a shot.
O’NEILL: But now, it's a whole different story. I mean you [ unintelligible ] —
AVERY: Well yeah, it's all different. You know?
O’NEILL: Right. Huh. You spent a lot of good time of your life in prison.
AVERY: Yeah. Something I shouldn't have.
O’NEILL: Yeah. You should be upset.
AVERY: But now, now I got all of this. I'm trying to stay calm and handle it the right way.
O’NEILL: Uh - huh.
AVERY: You know?
O’NEILL: I worked on a missing person's case last year. A 40-some year old guy from up in this area. Actually probably 50-some. I don 't know if you saw that last September it was. The guy ended up bringing his, uh, daughter-in-law for a ride down to Chicago. She had to take a flight down to Arizona and no one seen or heard from her after that. She ended up, uh, being in Iowa. You know, like two months later. [Laughter.] But, you know, people are really different. You guys brought that little truck up from the —
AVERY: Well, my Dad bought that a long time ago.
O’NEILL: Yeah?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: That must've been fun to run around in.
AVERY: Yeah, it is.
O’NEILL: Hmm.
AVERY: He's got one at home, my Dad, we just took home [they're talking about the Suzuki SUV that they towed home to the salvage yard to fix].
O’NEILL: Yeah?
AVERY: Yeah, it's gotta be fixed a little bit.
O’NEILL: How many cars you think you guys got down in the yard?
AVERY: I don't know. A couple thousand.
O’NEILL: Really? How old do you think the oldest one is?
AVERY: I don't know. In the 40s maybe.
O’NEILL: You still got some from the 40s and 50s? A lot of collect — do you guys go on the network of —
AVERY: No.
O’NEILL: No? Because isn't that a big deal now where you can go on network and list your cars as a — and, and to other salvage operators and all that stuff?
AVERY: Yeah. But we didn't even get that far yet.
O’NEILL: No?
AVERY: We're just starting to get up there now.
O’NEILL: 'Cause that's a really good business.
AVERY: Yeah. I don't know about anymore, heh.
O’NEILL: Yeah, so Earl and Chuck are basically the people that run the business now?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: Yeah.
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: And does that go with the market like as far as metal? Metal changes every day as far as how much the scrap metal and things?
AVERY: Mmm, nah. They ain't too much in, in there.
O’NEILL: No?
AVERY: Just when they get enough, then they get rid of it.
O’NEILL: Hmm.
AVERY: Yeah, I guess they just kind of sell so much at one time. And, you know with the taxes and the insurance, and —
O’NEILL: Yeah, but it's a family affair, eh?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: So, is Bobby, you said works midnights, where does he work?
AVERY: Hamilton's.
O’NEILL: Furniture?
AVERY: Uh, I think the one on Memorial Drive, I think.
O’NEILL: Hmm.
AVERY: Whatever it is.
O’NEILL: You do any fishing and stuff too, or no?
AVERY: I haven't been doing that lately.
O’NEILL: No? Where — do you usually go fishing?
AVERY: I used to, when I came out, at first.
O’NEILL: Yeah, on the lake?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: Yeah. What do you think of that break wall at Manitowoc?
AVERY: The what?
O’NEILL: The break wall going to the lake. How it's been redone to the new break wall there.
AVERY: Oh, yeah it looks, it looks nice.
O’NEILL: Yeah, it is nice. I remember spending a real hot day down there once. I used to work for the DNR a long time ago. Sat down there, work and fisherman. But I used to like Manitowoc. I used to like Two Rivers a lot. Used to do a lot of drinking when I was down in Two Rivers going bar-to-bar in the winter time. [Avery laughs.] The Shed? I don't know if you remember Memorial Drive, the mall, remember all the strip bars there?
AVERY: Yeah?
O’NEILL: Used to have a bar there called East 40?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: I don't know if you remember that or not.
AVERY: Yeah, I remember that.
O’NEILL: Yeah, and then uh, what was it uh, Godfather's or Goodfellows? Downtown Manitowoc. Capone's?
O’NEILL: Yeah.
AVERY: I don't know.
O’NEILL: But the Linebacker? That's still around, isn't it?
AVERY: I don't know.
O’NEILL: Yeah. And I told you about Fatzo's Subs?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: Yeah, that place was pretty good. So, you been getting a lot of phone calls and stuff from the press?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: How've they been?
AVERY: I guess pretty decent.
O’NEILL: Yeah.
AVERY: But you can't tell 'em much, just what you know.
O’NEILL: Yeah, exactly.
SKORLINSKI: [ Enters vehicle. ] Sorry about that.
AVERY: That's Ok.
O’NEILL: Ah, we were just shooting the breeze.
SKORLINSKI: You know what would help us out? If you would write out a statement as to the events of Monday, Tuesday. Umm, think you could do that?
AVERY: Well, I think I gave enough.
SKORLINSKI: Ok.
AVERY: You know? And my lawyers, I don't know if they'd go for that.
SKORLINSKI: Ok.
AVERY: You'd have to talk to them.
O’NEILL: Any more questions?
SKORLINSKI: I think we've — I think we covered, did I miss anything? Covered everything.
O’NEILL: Do you have any questions?
AVERY: Wish it was over already!
O’NEILL: Well we talked about that.
AVERY: Heh.
SKORLINSKI: There's going to be, down the line, there's going to be some things that you know we're going to have to ask of you again, probably. So, we want to, we want to make sure — I mean, uh, her car's found on your family's property there. And that's very much a concern of ours, so.
AVERY: Oh yeah.
SKORLINSKI: You're going to have to bear with us a little bit.
AVERY: I can do that.
SKORLINSKI: Hopefully we'll have your, you know, continued cooperation here.
AVERY: Yes, you do.
O’NEILL: And sometimes there's things that are going on that we don't control, OK? So, in the idea that if something comes up and you say "God, that Tony O'Neill or th at Kim Skorlinski," you know. I want you to understand something. This picture's a lot bigger than both of us, all right?
AVERY: Oh no, I know.
O’NEILL: So a lot of times our bosses are basically directing and orchestrating what's being done. Don't take it and put it towards us in the idea that we're the ones that are controlling that part of it. OK? I want you to understand something. When I came here the first day and said to you, "hey, look it, I have no intentions of placing you under arrest or takin g you to custody or nothing like that, I just want to talk to you about this missing person?" I'm up front Steve, OK? If I'm going to arrest you or take you into custody, I'm going to tell you that. I'm not going to lie to you.
AVERY: Oh yeah.
O’NEILL: So, as far as any distrust or anything like you may have with other officers in Manitowoc, I'd given you my word that if I'm going to do something with you, I'm going to tell you up front. And I'll make that promise to you.
AVERY: Ok.
O’NEILL: All right? 'Cause I gain nothing out of anything. I don't get no extra toaster at the end of [unintelligible] —
AVERY: [Laughter.] No, I don't think so.
O’NEILL: OK? So, even this same way, let's keep it open. You have questions and you're saying "boy," you know, "he said this, but I wonder what he meant by that," you know? Give me a call. I check my voicemail. Steve calls me up and says, "hey I just, uh, I have a question about this." I'll give you a call and say "hey Steve, here's the story." I'm not going to lie to you. I'm not going to make any promises to you. I'm not going to do anything that you're going say to yourself "boy, that O'Neill screwed me over." I won't do that. You've been through enough of that.
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: Is that a deal?
AVERY: That's a deal.
O’NEILL: All right. Anything else, Kim?
SKORLINSKI: Well, I was going to ask him, you know, if umm, if you, if — you know I think you've indicated that anybody could have access to the back of that yard. And, and could have put that car there. And, you know, we want to make sure that we're covering all the bases. Who, do you think could have done that? Who would be out to get you, Steve?
AVERY: The truth?
SKORLINSKI: Yeah.
AVERY: Manitowoc County.
SKORLINSKI: The Sherriff's Department?
AVERY: Kocourek.
SKORLINSKI: What's his name?
AVERY: Kocourek.
SKORLINSKI: Kocourek? And that's something that he could do?
AVERY: Oh yeah.
SKORLINSKI: Anyone else? Say it's not law enforcement.
AVERY: I get along with everybody.
SKORLINSKI: That's what, that's what I'm asking. Do you have any, do you have any known enemies? Since you've been out, no problems, no disputes, umm. No conflicts, no fights or anything with anybody?
AVERY: No. No, I get along —
SKORLINSKI: No threats?
AVERY: Mm - mmm. Everybody calls me, they're all nice and I don't think I have one, one bad mark. Not even when I walk in the stores or whatever.
SKORLINSKI: Ok. So, nobody comes to mind other than, other than this deputy? Who would try and do this to you.
AVERY: Yeah, just the — that sheriff.
SKORLINSKI: Ok.
AVERY: That's all I can think of.
O’NEILL: And a lot of times, in dealing with cases like this. And the family's important. And we'd do this for your family as well as any other family. They're going to ask us questions. They're going to say "Ok. How's Mr. Avery? Has he been this way? Has he been that way? How can we trust him?" OK? "Is he being truthful?" And of course you know the question's going to be is "how, how do you know he's telling the truth?" OK? We talked about polygraph. To validate you being truthful, OK? Understanding that, if we use polygraph and it shows you deceptive, we can't use it anyhow. But, to tell this family that Steve Avery volunteered to take a polygraph and he was truthful, and we're going to hold you up as being truthful and say "we validated Steve Avery and everything that he's told us. And he's been truthful to us." You know how that family would accept that? Really well. OK? Because not only are they saying we believe in him, we're going to validate him being truthful. That's an option that we have, Steve. I would take advantage of it. Although you weren't given that opportunity back then, this is a good opportunity to hold yourself up again and say "hey, I'm being truthful to this matter." For this family, and validating yourself being a truthful person so we can move on to this whole deal about possibly someone else being involved in this. To finalize everything that we've talked about. We want to be able to say we validated you being truthful about this whole thing. Would you take a polygraph exam? It'd take about two-and-a-half, three hours. And I'll tell you what, you know who the polygraph examiner is?
AVERY: Who?
O’NEILL: Me. I made you a promise already, didn't I? There's no fear from me.
AVERY: I can talk to a lawyer and see what he thinks.
O’NEILL: Ok.
AVERY: But I got no problem with it.
O’NEILL: Ok. Because I think you need to. I think you need to show this family that you're being a hundred percent cooperative, hundred percent truthful. And I want to stand behind you and say, "no matter what you hav e heard about Steve Avery, no matter what's going on with this whole situation, I'll tell you what. If he was given this opportunity way back when, it probably would had cleared him just as well as it did today." That's what I want to be able to do. But yo u need to take that step. All right?
AVERY: Ok.
O’NEILL: We done?
SKORLINSKI: Yep.
O’NEILL: Ok. Take care.
AVERY: I'll talk to the lawyer.
ALLEN AVERY: [ Knocks on window ] Hey, [ unintelligible ] on a telephone call [ unintelligible ] answer it?
O’NEILL: Yeah, we're done.
AVERY: And I can give you a call.
O’NEILL: Do that. Either way. All right?
AVERY: Ok. Yeah, as long as you ain't putting me up, that's fine then. No, no.
O’NEILL: I'm gonna validate you being truthful.
AVERY: Yeah, yeah. I got no reason to lie.
O’NEILL: So we can get past this Avery family. All right?
AVERY: Yeah.
O’NEILL: All right. Think about it. And remember, if they say "hey look it, we're going to advise against it," still take your — think about the idea you're a grown man, you do what you want to do. Trust in me. Ok, I get no toaster. And I tell you what, we, we take this polygraph exam and I'm going to hold you up being truthful, I'll be standing right behind you saying you are.
AVERY: Yeah, I got no problem with it.
O’NEILL: Ok. No cost to you. Two-and-a- half hours right in Marinette. You call me. In fact, I'll give you my cellphone number, I'll give you my card.
AVERY: Think I got two —
O’NEILL: You got two!
AVERY: Two of 'em. [ Laughter. ]
O’NEILL: How'd you rate? Ok.
AVERY: All right.
SKORLINSKI: We'll be here for a little while yet. But that's Ok, go take your phone call.
AVERY: Yeah, that's — yeah.
O’NEILL: Thanks.
AVERY: Ok. Thanks.
O’NEILL: Bye.
O'Neill's Report:
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Steven-Avery-Interview-Report-2005Nov06.pdf
November 6, 2005 RAW interview with Steven Avery | NBC26:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDFnDaMkikg
Related:
There is NO WAY Avery had anything to do with Halbach's death and then agreed to do this interview. If he had he is a smart enough petty criminal to not talk to cops. Avery and Dassey are 100% INNOCENT of this crime. Halbach was killed by serial killer Edward W Edwards, proof comes in the 2 notes he wrote in the case(5iKiKeY and WinnebagoMentalHealthInstitute), both have coded messages that reveal his identity!
ReplyDeleteThat's so true about the lie detector; they would have told him he failed. If EWE is the Zodiac Killer he very well could have killed Teresa Halbach. I can't rule it out as a possibility.
ReplyDelete[–]MsMinxster[S] 13 points 1 day ago
ReplyDeleteThey shouldn't be scared. They hold all the cards. MTSO and CASO are propped up by people who have $$ (no matter how little) or influence to peddle during election year. Sheriff is an elected position and you can be sure Kocourek never forgot that. Neither did Petersen or Hermann. It's no coincidence that big murder trials popped up just prior to election year (check the archives).
I've said this before but TK was very purposeful in making sure HE solved the '85 case and Manti PD didn't get credit for catching PB's attacker. If Gregory Allen had been arrested/convicted, you can bet your ass in '86 Sheriff Bergner would've been running the show and TK would've been nothing but a has been sheriff/full-time realtor.
It's all about the money, honey and PB's family and in-laws had plenty of cash to throw at a sheriff's campaign fund.
[–]menace_2 8 points 1 day ago
I've said this before but TK was very purposeful in making sure HE solved the '85 case and Manti PD didn't get credit for catching PB's attacker. If Gregory Allen had been arrested/convicted, you can bet your ass in '86 Sheriff Bergner would've been running the show and TK would've been nothing but a has been sheriff/full-time realtor.
And Chief Gilbert worked for Kocourek for almost a decade before the 9/4/04 crap went down? FFS. Steven never had a chance.
[–]Thesnakesate 3 points 1 day ago
PB's family and in-laws had piles of cash? Please tell me more!
[–]MsMinxster[S] 9 points 1 day ago
Her grandfather was the founder and owner of one of Manitowoc's major media outlets. I won't be more specific but that gives you a decent idea of the piles of cash her family had, no?
The documentary touched on PB's husband and his family's affluence from the candy stores but PB was affluent in her own right.
Interestingly, PB's older brother married MTSO M.Bushy's cousin prior to her '85 assault yet Sheriff Tommy K thought it perfectly appropriate to send MTSO M.Bushy to arrest SA for PB's assault on the evening of 7/29/85.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/5lw0mv/in_sep_04_mtso_requested_backup_at_avery_rd_for_a/