Making a Murderer: 'Secret Courtroom Signal' Made by Ken Kratz to Scott Tadych
In the clip below, Scott Tadych, Steven Avery's brother-in-law, takes to the stand to be questioned by Avery's lawyer, Dean Strang.
In the screen shot above and the clip below Ken Kratz appears to be giving a cecret signal to Scott by brushing his finger across his lip.
But as the camera pans across to Kratz, he can be seen subtly moving his finger across his lip, a signal which some viewers believe is directed at Scott in a bid to stop him from talking.
The apparent hand gesture was brought to light by Twitter user Ian Atkinson who said: "Ooh little, finger symbol there, little symbol to him [Scott Tadych]. 'Shut up Scott'."
At the time of questioning, Scott was attempting to affirm his alibi.
Kratz was caught on camera, implicating both himself and Scott.
Summary of Scott Tadych's interviews and statements:
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/71m2uu/summary_of_scott_ts_interviews_and_statements/
Could Teresa have arrived at Avery's around 2:30 and been gone from the salvage yard by 2:35 p.m. and within range of tower 2110 by 2:41 p.m.? See "Teresa Halbach's Cell Tower Locations, Cell Phone Records and Voicemail Records" for an analysis on the location of the cell towers that processed Teresa's calls on the afternoon of October 31, 2005.
UPDATE JUNE 14, 2017: Teresa did not go to Schmitz's, Zipperer's and Avery's, in that order, according to Kathleen Zellner, in her June 7, 2017 motion for post-conviction relief. Zellner presents an "accurate timeline" in her motion, and claims that Teresa went to Zipperer's after Avery's.
Attached to the June 7th motion are "new cell phone" records from AT&T for Teresa Halbach. If those records are accurate, it means the Cingular pre-bill entered into evidence was doctored by Ken Kratz. According to AT&T records, Teresa never had phone contact with the Zipperers via their land line, the phone number on Teresa's lead sheet for October 31, 2005.
Attached to the post-conviction petition that Kathleen Zellner filed on June 7, 2017, is a DCI report by agent Neil McGrath, who met with Angela Schuster of AutoTrader on November 6, 2006.
Angela gave him details that were not covered in CASO reports or during her testimony at Avery's trial. She said "Halbach normally worked Mondays, Thursdays and Saturdays covering Green Bay, Appleton and Calumet Counties, and that she was temporarily covering the Manitowoc and Sheybogan area; however, these area tend to generate less business in the winter months and would be covered less frequently by Halbach." Angela would not have known about appointments Teresa had scheduled herself for Wednesday; however, Angela mentioned that Teresa had two leads from AutoTrader for Green Bay on Thursday, and neither of those leads had received a callback from Teresa.
Angela said that the last fax she received from Teresa was at 12:13 a.m. on October 31st, the same fax number from which Teresa always transmitted her paperwork (she did not know if the time stamp was accurate). Angela said that "after completing their appointments, photographers will typically send a disk containing the photos along with the appropriate forms to the main office (she had about 10 photographers that reported to her), utlizing Fed Ex, UPS or Airborne Express." She added that "photographers will also fax their appointment sheets into the Hales Corners office for review." Anglea said that Teresa had leads for Schmitz, Zipperer and Janda on Monday, October 31st, and stated that "there is a possibility that Halbach had other appointments that she would have arranged on her own, and Schuster would not be aware of these other appointment until Halbach faxed in her appointment report the following day."
McGrath also wrote: Schuster stated that as the manager she provided "leads to the photographs out in the field." Individuals wishing to advertise a vehicle in AutoTrader Magazine call the main office in Hales Corners and make an appointment to have photos taken of their vehicle. The office then contacts the photographer assigned to the specific territory where the request came from to notify the photographer and confirm the appointment. Approximately 90% of all "leads" will go through the main office in Hales Corners, however, occasionally photographers will leave their cell phone numbers directly with clients in order for the client to get a hold of them privately. When a photographer generates business by having a client contact them directly, it is called a "hustle shot." Photographers get paid more for "hustle" shots.
THE ZIPPERER AND SCHMITZ APPOINTMENTS
Angela Schuster's testified that the George Zipperer lead resulted from a call to the Zipperer residence from telemarketers in Florida.
Q. Okay. Now, what you would typically do, when somebody would call in, or when the telemarketers -- Telemarketers were based in Florida, I think; is that right?
A. Yes, they were at the time.
Q. And what they would do is, they would comb newspapers or other publications for people who already put ads in and call them and say, hey, you know, why don't you put an ad in our publication as well?
A. Correct. Yes.
Q. Sort of cold calls --
A. Yes.
Q. -- right? And in fact, that's -- if you know, isn't that how Auto Trader made the contact with this George Zipperer later the same day, on October 31st?
A. Yes.
Q. It was a telemarketing call, right?
A. Yes.
Schuster answered "yes" to Buting's statement about the Zipperer lead -- "later the same day, on October 31," is obviously not when someone at the Zipperer residence was contacted by telemarketers because George's mispelled name, "George Zipper," was on the lead sheet printed for Teresa the morning of October 31st. This means his information was in the computer system before 7 AM on October 31st.
Why did Angela agree with this statement? Maybe she was advised by AutoTrader counsel to keep her answers short. Maybe she misinterpreted Buting's statement. Maybe she just wanted to get off the stand as quickly as possible.
Schmitz/Sippel of Calumet County originally were on Teresa's lead sheet for Saturday, October 29th [this is the poorest quality of all the facsimilie documents entered into evidence]. Teresa underlined "New Holstein" on the October 29th lead sheet (Schmitz actually lived in Kiel, south of New Holstein).
Teresa would have driven 30 minutes south from her home in Hilbert to get to Schmitz's home in Kiel, with no other appointments in the area, not even potential hustle shots. She then would have driven about an hour northeast to get to her regular appointments. All this driving out of her way to Kiel for an $8.75 photo shoot (she was paid $8.75 for a regular shot and $18.75 each for "hustle shots," per Angela Schuster's testimony)?
CROSS EXAMINATION OF SCHMITZ BY ATTORNEY STRANG (PAGE 125):
Q. Mr. Schmitz, just generally, where is New Holstein in relation to, let's say the city of Manitowoc?
A. Oh, quite a ways away, I would say probably 35 miles.
Q. Is it west, southwest?
A. West, yeah, southwest.
Q. That is, New Holstein is west and a little south of Manitowoc?
A. I'm actually south of New Holstein.
Q. Okay. Fair enough. The car you had was at your house, as you said?
A. Yes.
Q. But you owned that jointly with another gentleman?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. His name is Craig Sippel?
A. Yes.
Q. Mr. Sippel is the one who actually called and made the appointment with Auto Trader?
A. Yes.
Q. And gave your address presumably --
A. Yes.
Q. -- as the place for the photo shoot?
A. Right.
A. The car is stored in my shed.
Q. In your shed?
A. Yes.
(Court Reporter couldn't hear.
Q. You may need to swing your mike a little closer to you, or you a little closer to it. If you get too close it gets too loud, a delicate balance. Mr. Sippel is a friend of yours?
A. Yes.
Q. You know him well?
A. Yes.
Q. He wasn't trying to lure a photographer to your house by using his name when he called Auto Trader asking for someone to come to your residence?
A. No.
Q. Thanks.
ATTORNEY STRANG: That's all I have got.
THE COURT: Very well.
ATTORNEY KRATZ: Judge, if I could ask one follow up question.
THE COURT: Yes.
The AutoTrader appointment was set up by Craig Sippel. Sippel and Schmitz "co-owned a vehicle" that they allegedly were trying to sell. (The Sippel-Schmitz connection can be traced back to 1957.)
Craig Sippel's AutoTrader account number was 4848x and Zipperer's was 48485, which indicates their accounts were established around the same time, probably on Friday, October 28th (B. Janda was assigned account number 48497 on the morning of Monday, October 31st):
- The source code "PHO" by Craig Sippel's name on Teresa's appointment for Saturday indicates he called AutoTrader to setup the appointment. This would have been before Friday, the day before, since the sheet was faxed to Teresa around 7 a.m. on Saturday. However, Teresa was not assigned to Calumet County, so this lead should not have been on her appointment sheet.
- The source code "TMK" on Teresa's appointment sheet for Monday indicates George Zipperer was contacted by telemarketers. Assuming telemarketers normally didnn't work on Sundays, this would mean that they called the Zipperer residence on Friday or Saturday. The Zipperer lead was on Teresa's appointment sheet for Monday because AutoTrader sent Teresa to Manitowoc and Sheboygan counties only on Mondays.
Q. Mr. Schmitz, where are you from, sir?
A. New Holstein, Wisconsin. [His home is actually in Kiel, WI, southwest of New Holstein]
Q. I'm going to direct your attention to the 31st of October, 2005, ask if you remember that day?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. And did you make any contact that day with a young woman that you later learned was Teresa Halbach?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Tell the jury, please, how it was that you made contact with Ms Halbach?
A. I had a car for sale. She contacted me that day. She was going to be here about 1:30. She showed up. She did a photograph of my car. I gave her a check. She gave me a receipt with a bag with information in it and then she left.
Q. Mr. Schmitz, how long was it that this transaction occurred; in other words, how long did it take for Ms Halbach to take the photographs, get paid, give you the information and be on her way?
A. Ten to fifteen minutes, max.
Q. Where did this transaction take place?
A. In my driveway.
Q. In New Holstein?
A. Yeah. [His home is actually in Kiel, WI, southwest of New Holstein]
Q. You're quite sure it was around 1:30 p.m.?
A. Yes, I am.
Schmitz doesn't testify that he talked to Teresa on the phone on 10/31. He testified: "She contacted me that day. She was going to be here at 1:30. She showed up. She did a photograph of my car. I gave her a check. She gave me a receipt with a bag with information in it and then she left."
Was Schmitz home, or did Teresa simply show up, photograph his car, collect a check left somewhere on/in the vehicle, and leave a receipt and packet of materials (as she would with any customer)?
According to Teresa's supervisor Angela Schuster, more often than not, these potential customers were not present when Teresa came to their properties for the photo shoots. When Teresa came to take pictures, she would pick up the ad descriptions and payments left with the vehicles. If there was no ad description or payment, she noted it on the lead sheet.
DCI agent McGrath wrote:
Schuster stated that it was common for customers to do repeat business with Auto Trader Magazine. It was also common for the customer not to be present when their vehicle is photographed by Auto Trader Magazine. If the customer is not present, a description of the vehicle form filled out by the customer along with payment would be left with the vehicle. The photographer would collect the documents and payment when photographing the vehicle. A typical payment for a 12 week ad to run in Auto Trader Magazine is approximately $40.00. Clients are allowed to pay with cash, credit card or check and it is policy for the photographer to leave a receipt for the client that states how long their ad will run in Auto Trader Magazine.Did Teresa successfully mail/overnight Schmitz's check, was it received by Autotrader (along with the media card containing the photos), was it deposited, and did Schmitz's ad run as scheduled?
Steven Avery's trial transcript, day 18, March 7, 2007 (page 231), Strang's cross examination of Mark Wiegert:
Q. The -- One of the men that you later were able to confirm that she visited and took a photograph of a car he had for sale, on October 31st, was this Steve Schmitz, whom we spoke about a few minutes ago?
A. Yes.
Q. Mr. Schmitz, you learned, wrote a check for the Auto Trader services?
A. I would have to see that report. I don't know how he paid. I think you are right. I recall seeing a check from him.
Q. Yeah, I think he actually testified --
A. That's possible.
Q. -- to that. That's a check that you never found?
A. Could you be more specific, never found, period?
Q. It never turned up?
A. Not to my knowledge.
Q. And you -- you -- you checked into this, so to speak, and found out that the check was never negotiated.
A. I believe, actually, now that you are talking about, he had stopped payment on that check, I think was his testimony, I believe.
Q. And you learned that no one ever presented the check for payment, or tried to cash the check?
A. Not that we have been made aware of.
DATE OF ACTIVITY: 11/03/05
REPORTING OFFICER: Inv. Mark Wiegert
On 11/03/05 at approximately 1730 hours [5:30 p.m.], I (Inv. MARK WIEGERT of the CALUMET COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT) received a phone call from Cpl. LEMIEUX of the CALUMET COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT. Cpl. LEMIEUX was requesting my assistance in locating a missing person by the name of TERESA HALBACH. I requested that Cpl. LEMIEUX respond to my office so I could speak with her reference this incident. When Cpl. LEMIEUX arrived, she informed me that TERESA HALBACH had been reported as missing by her mother, KAREN. Cpl. LEMIEUX also informed me she had already spoken with ANGELA SCHUSTER from the AUTO TRADER magazine who gave her three names of appointments that TERESA was supposed to be at on Monday. Cpl. LEMIEUX gave me the names of CRAIG SIPPEL, B. JANDA and GEORGE ZIPPERER as people that TERESA was to meet with on Monday.
At approximately 1755 hours [5:55 p.m.], I did make contact with CRAIG SIPPEL. CRAIG stated they, in fact, had contacted AUTO TRADER magazine to take pictures of a car he and his friend, STEVEN SCHMITZ, had for sale. CRAIG states the vehicle, which was for sale, was located at STEVEN's residence in the Village of St. Anna. CRAIG said he did not talk with the photographer or see the photographer that day and gave me the name of STEVEN SCHMITZ and told me I should contact STEVEN. That was the end of my conversation with CRAIG.
At approximately 1800 hours [6 p.m.], I did make phone contact with STEVEN P. SCHMITZ. STEVEN states he and CRAIG have a car they own together and were selling through the AUTO TRADER magazine. According to STEVEN, he received a phone call from TERESA HALBACH at approximately 1:10 p.m. on Monday, 10/31/05. STEVEN told me TERESA arrived at his residence at N253 CTH A, New Holstein, between the hours of 1:30 p.m. and 1 :45 p.m. on Monday, 10/31/05. STEVEN told me she was driving a blue SUV possibly something like a Pathfinder. He told me the vehicle looked very new. I asked STEVEN what the photographer, TERESA, would have been wearing. He stated she was wearing blue jeans, a white button down shirt with a summer jacket, unknown color. STEVEN states TERESA took pictures of the vehicle that he and CRAIG had for sale and he wrote her out a check. STEVEN states TERESA got back in her vehicle and the last time he saw her she was headed north on CTH A. I asked STEVEN if there was anything unusual about TERESA when he spoke with her. He stated there was not and she had just taken the pictures and had left. That was the end of my contact with STEVEN.REDIRECT EXAMINATION OF SCHMITZ BY ATTORNEY KRATZ:
Dedering wrote that Wiegert asked him to contact Schmitz and Zipperer (CASO, page 11). We know Dedering went to Zipperer's on November 3rd and 6th because he wrote reports about it, but he didn't write a report about any contact with Schmitz.
Schmitz testified that law enforcement contacted him but he wasn't positive when that was. Kratz didn't ask any further questions, nor did Strang during cross examination.
Q. Mr. Schmitz, do you recall the date that law enforcement came and asked you questions regarding your contact with Ms Halbach?
A. Like a day or so after. I'm not positive. They contacted me to make sure that she was there and I said, yes, she was.
ATTORNEY KRATZ: That's all I have. Thank you, sir.
THE COURT: You are excused.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
Schmitz testified that Teresa had given him a "for sale" sign, an AutoTrader magazine, and a bill of sale to be filled out when the vehicle was sold. JoEllen Zipperer testified that she was also given the same materials (page 133). The difference is, the package Teresa allegedly gave to Zipperer was entered into evidence (trial exhibit 27) but the package allegedly given to Schmitz was not. Plus, Schmitz said he paid Teresa by check (he didn't say how much; did he stop payment on the check?) and was emphatic that he didn't keep the receipt she allegedly had given him.
In other words, Schmitz had no evidence to prove Teresa actually had been there.
Q. The information or the papers that she left with you; do you recall those? Can you describe them?
A. Yeah, one was a for sale sign. There was a book that was the Auto Trader and then there was like a contract, if you were to sell your vehicle, how to fill it out properly, like a sales receipt.
Q. So a receipt and an Auto Trader Magazine; is that right?
A. Right.
Q. Do you recall what this receipt looked like?
A. It was a larger white thing probably 6 by 8 square, just a common receipt.
Q. Do you know what it was called? You didn't keep it, did you?
A. No. No.
ATTORNEY KRATZ: I think that's all I have of Mr. Schmitz. Thank you, Judge.
UPDATE JUNE 14, 2017: Teresa's call to Schmitz's land line at 8:47:59 a.m. on 10/29 lasted 41 seconds (see AT&T report image above), and her call to his land line at 12:51 on 10/31 lasted 34 seconds per AT&T -- Kratz doctored the Cingular fax and listed the call on 10/31 as lasting 46 seconds because he needed it to appear as if Teresa and Schmitz had a conversation, as opposed to her leaving a message on his machine.
The voicemail left by Teresa that was entered into evidence, which the State claims came from Janda's machine, was 34 seconds long, and could have been a message left by Teresa on Schmitz's machine.
According to Blaine Dassey, in Teresa's message on the Janda machine on 10/31, she said she would be there between 1 and 2 p.m. The duration of the call from Teresa to B Janda was 42 seconds, per AT&T -- Kratz doctored the Cingular fax and listed the call as lasting 65 seconds. This would mean that Janda's greeting was almost as long as Teresa's message: 65 seconds (call duration) minus 34 seconds (length of message left) equals 31 seconds (length of greeting). This seems highly unlikely.
Kathleen Zellner obtained "new cell records" for Teresa from AT&T in 2017. In August 2005, Teresa had ported her cell over to Cingular. In 2005, Cingular bought AT&T. In 2007, Cingular dropped its name for the AT&T name. So Teresa's cell phone records from August 2005 onward were part of the Cingular/AT&T database -- there were not imported from another database -- so the AT&T report generated in 2017 should be accurate.
The voicemail played at trial as the message left on the Janda machine could very well be the message left on Schmitz's home answering machine. Teresa said she could be there around 2 or a little longer but she couldn't come unless she had a callback from him, giving her his address because she didn't have it. Schmitz worked for the public school system and wouldn't have been home when this message was left. The name and phone number on the lead sheet for this "PHO" appointment (phone-in), which Teresa was trying to reschedule from Saturday, was Sippel and the address was Schmitz's, but Teresa may not have known that the address was Schmitz's unless special instructions were included on the detailed lead sheet. Plus, the vehicle was stored in a shed, according to Schmitz's testimony, so even if Teresa had the address, she couldn't photograph the vehicle unless someone was home to let her into the shed or to remove it from the shed so she could take pictures.
Teresa called Schmitz but he never called back. Notes on the detailed lead sheet could have had two numbers, one for Sippel and one for Schmitz, plus notes about the vehicle being stored in a shed, which means she couldn't have just shown up to photograph it.
Based on an analysis of appointment sheets entered into evidence and Teresa's cell phone records (the 2017 AT&T report),Teresa's custom and practice was to initiate contact for phone-in leads (like Avery, who called on 10/31 and requested a "same-day" shoot, and Schmitz) and potential customers who called the AutoTrader office to inquire about running ads. On the contrary, Teresa may not have called telemarketing leads. Instead, she may simply shown up at the address listed on the detailed report for each lead (see trial exhibit 22).
Based on an analysis of Teresa's day planner and the only detailed lead report entered into evidence (exhibit 22, the October 31st B Janda appoinment), AutoTrader told "leads" that a photographer would come to their properties to photograph their vehicles between 9 a.m. and 2 p.m. AutoTrader told the "leads" that they did not have to be present and that they could leave the ad description and payment with the vehicle.
SCHMITZ'S MOTHER AND HIS WIFE'S MOTHER ARE HALBACHS
SCHMITZ'S MOTHER AND HIS WIFE'S MOTHER ARE HALBACHS
Teresa's call to Schmitz at 12:51 p.m. only lasted 46 seconds. It is not clear from any interview or testimony if this call was answered or if Teresa left a message. There isn't any record of Teresa calling Schmitz before that call; however, her Cingular report that was entered into evidence only had calls starting after 4 p.m. on Saturday (her Saturday morning cell phone activity was not entered into evidence). Teresa must have gotten Schmitz's number by calling Sippel on Saturday, October 29th, because the lead sheet for that day has Sippel's, not Schmitz's, phone number (but it has Schmitz's home address).
Steven Schmitz is a blood relative of the Halbachs.
Steven Paul Schmitz's mother is a Halbach (he is the son of the late Ervin & Lorraine Halbach Schmitz). Steven Schmitz is married to Linda Helen Schmitz, whose mother is also a Halbach (Charles & Kathleen Tootsie Halbach Kraus are her parents, and two of her father's sisters also married Halbachs). Interestingly, Schmitz's father worked at Sippel Funeral Home.
Steven Schmitz is related to Todd Schmitz, who is a personal friend of Peg Lautenschalger, the Wisconsin Attorney General who, in a report released December 17, 2003, concluded that the Manitowoc County sheriff and district attorney committed no ethical or criminal violations in 1985 in their prosecution of Steven Avery.
"Listed in Calumet’s report as witnesses are Craig Sippel & Steven P. Schmitz, who gave a ‘BOGUS’ witness account of Teresa Halbach coming to photograph a car they jointly owned. Steven is a relative linked directly to Peg Lautenschlager’s personal friend and Fond Du Lac board member Todd Schmitz, who gave a ‘BOGUS’ statement of giving Lautenschlager a ride in a Grand Prix when she was being investigated for the improper usage of her State vehicle. All four residing in the New Holstein, Fond Du Lac area." [Source] "Cell tower pings prove it was impossible for Halbach to have made this stop at Steven P. Schmitz’s address." [Source]
What time did Teresa really make it to Schmitz's on October 31st, or did she make it there at all?
[–]seekingtruthforgood
During the conversation with DCI (image above), when reading the context of her appointments Monday, it seems as though Angela is saying Schmitz's appointment was cancelled:
https://imgur.com/4gSAMzP
That's how I read it when reviewing it again... it ties with questioning whether she actually went to that Kiel appointment.
It strikes me as she cancelled that appointment, which would put her at Zipperer's or another place first, Avery's second, and then back to somewhere third (maybe back to Zipperer's, if she couldn't find his place the first time..
Doesn't seem like that in context of the entire conversation. I think the October 31st fax, which is fives pages, is of her work on Monday, and there could be a another page that shows this appointment rescheduled a second time, like for the following Monday.
The tweet was:
Fact: one person actually gave cops fake name to access property to help in TH search. #MakingAMurderer #The StrangerBesideMe #Checkaduhid
So... was the "ad you hid" an ad that Teresa transmitted to AutoTrader on the October 31st, and contained within that fax at 00:13? We already know her clock was off.
To test this theory, we only have to remember that Teresa's fax header, sent to AutoTrader, tells us her fax size on October 31st was five pages... she faxed five pages, not one.
Wiegert and Remiker's recorded call confirms that her computer was tied to her fax machine.
Could Schmitz Have Been Teresa's Last Stop?
March 7, 2016
We only have Schmitz's "word" on what time she showed up to take the picture. Can someone prove me wrong?
Could TH have called Schmitz in the morning to confirm the appointment and he said " Can you come by later in the day? Sure I will stop on my way home around 4:00 is that ok?" (my opinion). TH stops and goes into the shed to take pictures of the car and someone shoots her (Schmitz testified that the car was in a shed but the transaction took place in his driveway). They put her body in the back of the Rav4 and hide it until dark. Sippel comes with the hearse and transports her to his family's funeral home six minutes away, where she is cremated. The Rav4, TH cremains, and her personal items are given to Lenk to plant when SA leaves with his parents for their weekend home in Crivitz.
Weird Side Notes:
Steve Schmitz's mother's maiden name was Halbach
Schmitz = Steven Schmitz: Co-owner of car with Craig Sippel
Wendy L Schmitz = Aliases: Wendy Lynn Baldwin, Calumet Sheriff's Department
Todd Baldwin = Department of Justice, interviewed Brendan Dassey on November 6th in Crivitz with Marinette county deputy Anthony O'Neill
Sippel = Craig Sippel: Co-owner of car with Steven Schmitz
Lieutenant Kelly Sippel = Calumet County Sheriff's Office
Halbachs and Baldwins in the Calumet County 2015-2016 government directory:
Timothy Halbach, Circuit Court Commissioner
Victoria Halbach, Human Resources Coordinator
Gary Halbach, Fire Chief
Tammy Baldwin, U.S. Senator
Kelly Sippel, Correctional-Transport Officer
Teresa's Rav4 has a Lemieux sticker on it. Deputy Lemieux is the one that took the statements from Sippel and Schmitz.
Teresa's home was on County Road B in Hilbert; Schmitz's address is 253 County Road A, Kiel, WI.
There were three men named Steven connected to Teresa's Cingular report for October 31st, 2005: (1) outgoing call at 11:43 a.m. to Steven Avery's sister, Barb Janda (Steven was the one to request the shoot but gave his sister's number because it was her van); (2) incoming call at 12:45 p.m from Steven Speckman, according to Kratz's "Offer of Proof"; and (3) outgoing call at 12:51 p.m. to Steven Schmitz (his friend, Craig Sippel, requested the shoot for Schmitz's home).
"This is the analysis that I didn't think would happen. I thought we'd hit an evidence ceiling with nothing else to analyze or discuss but yet more and more evidence keeps popping up. This is the first part of a 2 part analysis that goes through how this all started which answers the question of why the cops hated Steven Avery so much. It goes all the way to the end and even discusses whether or not Teresa Halbach is even dead." [Juan Tescrue, April 16, 2016]Timeline for Wendy Schmitz / Baldwin (Excerpt)
by Whitevorpal at Reddit, MakingaMurderer
March 17, 2016
August 2006
Wendy Schmitz divorces Robert Baldwin
2007 Trial
Both Wendy Baldwin and Jennifer Bass were potential witnesses for Kratz, but neither was called.
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Correspondence-from-DA-Kratz-Re-States-Witnesses.pdf
September 30, 2009
Both Wendy and Jennifer are involved in the Effigy burning. Jennifer retires and Wendy is demoted to dispatcher.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQqi8JB7amg http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/sheriff-deputies-disciplined-facebook-video-shows-burning-effigy-dressed-uniform-article-1.381174
2011
Wendy is found guilty of restricting or obstructing an officer – Brown County Case Number 2011CM001708
May 2, 2012
The March 2006 warrant featured in Avery’s appeal where he claimed the warrant was invalid, note Baldwin is named repeatedly, including as having withheld vital material information.
https://casetext.com/case/avery-v-manitowoc-cnty-1
p.2 Decision & overview:
http://www.leagle.com/decision/In%20FDCO%2020121121B33/AVERY%20v.%20MANITOWOC%20COUNTY
“Plaintiff claims that the search warrant was invalid because, there was no indication the affidavit was ever seen by Judge Willis; the affidavit relied on information that Officer Baldwin and District Attorney Kratz knew or should have known was not reliable or accurate; and Officer Baldwin withheld material information that was vital to the finding of probable cause.”
October 29, 2012
Wendy was also named in Avery’s complaint about the warrant for seizing & searching the Grand Am:
http://www.leagle.com/decision/In%20FDCO%2020121030A94/AVERY%20v.%20CALUMET%20COUNTY
Note that Peggy lautenschlager signed off on the Grand Am’s being held by the state for analysis.
This is the same person who cleared the MTSO of wrong doing for Avery’s imprisonment after the 1985 rape trial. She was later admitted into the ethics committee....... yeah, really!
http://whbl.com/news/articles/2016/mar/11/former-attorney-general-named-to-state-ethics-panel/
2012-2013
Wendy is listed as a Dispatcher in the Calumet County directory (page 15) thanks /u/sillinesscjlg for this info.
http://www.co.calumet.wi.us/documentcenter/view/346
2016
Wendy is no longer listed in the Calumet County directory.
http://www.co.calumet.wi.us/documentcenter/view/1743
Things we don’t know or are unsure about:
Todd Baldwin interviewed Brendan on Nov 6th – Unsure if there is any link between him and Wendy.
Wendy Baldwin may have been the person who gave the TV interview recently about Avery’s spotless trailer. As /u/sillinesscjlg points out, she is the only female deputy linked to the warrant and search of the trailer, so it was likely her. She also disappeared from the Calumet County directory so is possibly retired.
Have been unable to link Wendy Schmitz with Steve Schmitz, Teresa’s first appointment.
Wendy Baldwin / Schmitz comes up everywhere in the Avery investigation. She found blood in multiple vehicles and a bloody rag that does not seem to have been mentioned at trial. She obtained cellular records for Teresa Halbach. Interestingly involved in the two areas Zellner plans to exonerate Avery with. Wendy also interviewed Marie Avery and Kayla Avery. She showed a dislike towards Avery when searching his trailer, and for the Sheriff and other colleagues in burning an effigy. She was named in Avery’s appeals.
SWF = http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Search-Warrant-File.pdf
TERESA HALBACH'S AUTOTRADER HISTORY AND SCHEDULE PER STATEMENTS BY AUTOTRADER EMPLOYEES
Teresa started with AutoTrader around October 2004 and was responsible for covering the Green Bay area (per Angela Schuster's testimony). Kathy Willeford told investigators (CASO file, page 331) that she was AutoTrader's photographer for Manitowoc and Sheboygan counties before Teresa took over in May 2005 (Kathy's last day on the job was April 20, 2005). Kathy also told investigators that Steven first used AutoTrader on January 1, 2005, and that she only was at Avery Salvage Yard that one time.
To summarize, Teresa Halbach was hired by AutoTrader in October 2004 and was responsible for Green Bay. And then mid-year 2005, she had taken over the counties of Manitowoc and Sheboygan, one day a week, on Mondays. Teresa continued to cover Green Bay, and she worked this area also on Wednesdays and Saturdays.
TERESA HALBACH'S VISITS TO AVERY SALVAGE YARD
Counting October 31, 2005, Teresa visited Avery Salvage Yard at least six times (per Angela Schuster's testimony):
1. June 20, 2005
2. August 22, 2005
3. August 29, 2005
4. September 19, 2005
5. October 10, 2005
6. October 31, 2005
Teresa also had been to Avery Salvage Yard on several other occasions to photograph vehicles owned by Tom and Barb Janda, according to Blaine Dassey, one of Barb's son.
WENDY BALDWIN SCHMITZ
by Sillinesscjlg at Reddit
Every time I turn around, Wendy Baldwin Schmitz can
be attributed to something else, so I thought I would make one thread of
all things Wendy Baldwin Schmitz.
She was demoted to dispatcher and is listed as a dispatcher in the 2012 Calumet County directory (page 15).
http://www.co.calumet.wi.us/documentcenter/view/346 - but is completely absent from the 2016 directory (page 13-14)
http://www.co.calumet.wi.us/documentcenter/view/1743 - so we can assume she does not work in the Calumet Sheriff Dept any more, but is she retired?
I would love to know what further involvement Wendy Baldwin Schmitz played in all of this.
- I believe she is the female Calumet retired deputy who recently gave the anonymous news interview stating that SA's trailer was immaculate. This is the link I found to show which deputies were on the search warrant to search the trailer. This is Roland Johnson's (trailer owner) complaint http://overthrow.us/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/7th-Circuit-Property-Owner.pdf. Since I can't find any other Calumet female deputies on any warrants for the trailer, I would have to conclude the anonymous news interview was Wendy.
- She was the "new chick" mentioned that did the flyover with Pagel and Weigert on 11/4. Curtis Drumm's trial testimony, day 2, page 108. http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Jury-Trial-Transcript-Day-2-2007Feb13.pdf
- She was the infamous voice on MaM saying SA wasn't going to make
the Innocence Project Dinner and that they should take some of his
shoes to process for unsolved burglaries. Again, citing source above
that she was only female officer listed on search warrant.
At all relevant times, Jerry Pagel was the Sheriff of Calumet County and Sheriff’s Deputies William Tyson, Mark Wiegert, Wendy Baldwin and John Dedering executed the search warrants on Johnson’s property. - She starred in her very own effigy video: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/sheriff-deputies-disciplined-facebook-video-shows-burning-effigy-dressed-uniform-article-1.381174 and was demoted to dispatcher because of it.
- On Nov. 5th, Wendy Baldwin Schmitz gained possession of a bloody rag — falsely claiming it came from the vehicle next to the Rav4, saying that Cadaver dog Brutus “hit” on it (courtesy of DK Sale) http://dksale.net/2016/03/16/sgt-wendy-baldwin-planted-steven-avery-evidence-in-halbachs-suv-with-bloody-rag/. This rag is never mentioned in the dog handler's testimony (Julie Kramer), day 5, page 18 http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Jury-Trial-Transcript-Day-5-2007Feb16.pdf#page=5. Why lie Wendy?
- She participated in the illegal search of the Grand Am, in which Kratz tried to cover this up by signing the illegal search after the fact. See above article courtesy of DK Sale. The bloody rag could have been found during this illegal search. I could not find any mention of this bloody rag in any further evidence documentation.
- She is never called to testify by Kratz.
- More connections made in /u/Whitevorpal post https://redd.it/4av86s
- She was one of the officers who interviewed Kayla on 2/20 http://static1.squarespace.com/static/5691be1b25981daa98f417c8/t/56932ac8a976af0bfc5a9839/1452485326873/dassey_4_19_07.pdf, Weigert testimony, page 197.
She was demoted to dispatcher and is listed as a dispatcher in the 2012 Calumet County directory (page 15).
http://www.co.calumet.wi.us/documentcenter/view/346 - but is completely absent from the 2016 directory (page 13-14)
http://www.co.calumet.wi.us/documentcenter/view/1743 - so we can assume she does not work in the Calumet Sheriff Dept any more, but is she retired?
I would love to know what further involvement Wendy Baldwin Schmitz played in all of this.
The distance between Teresa's home and her mother's home is about 1/4 mile.
WENDY BALDWIN SCHMITZ
by Escvelocity at Reddit
by Escvelocity at Reddit
Guilters say "there is no such thing as coincidence" regarding Avery?
By hos_gotta_eat_too, MakingaMurderer
Let's go over some coincidences in 3 cases:
Avery vs. Mataya vs. Fencl
We all know Avery's case, so the other two is what I want to look at.
With Avery, the key factor to me is that her items were separate from her body in the burn pit..they sat in a burn barrel.
Mataya. According to his step-daughter, her items were seen in the trunk of a police car, possessed by a cop with "scars on his face".
Fencl: Her items were found in a plastic bag in the river. Odd that Sturm found some items on a riverbed, a cell phone and papers, a day or two after TH's car was found, but before the items were located in the burn barrel.
Lawyers:
Fencl's attorney basically worked against him (assisting the prosecution), and was used to testify against him after being taken off of Fencl's case. His attorney, Alpert, wanted to write a book on the case. Fencle was described as very friendly when being questioned about the missing girl. Avery was decribed by Colborn as very cordial. Wonder why they HAVE to report on what their demeanor is...that's odd.
Now on to Mataya. Mataya's trial...Denny rule. What a surprise. As mentioned, the victim's items were said to be in the trunk of a cop's car. Seperate from the body as well, just like Fencl, just like Avery. As we have all suspected, Barb and Scott (and the boys) may have been asked..or even pressured to testify against Avery. In Mataya's case, their main witness was a guy who was asking for pending charges to be dropped to tell police what he knew about Mataya, saying that he attacked and killed the girl. Bit her (that's a weird detail to put in)...that he bleached his jeans, and cleaned his car. In Avery's case, we have cops looking for bleached jeans, after cleaning an area of the garage. Odd, huh?
Mataya had a witness who said he was in jail with the witness against Mataya and says Mataya confessed to him that he was lying to police just to get charges dropped. Of course, Mataya still sits in prison, so the police must pick and choose which convict shared information is valid (re: torture chamber.."avery said he did it" statement from inmate)..
All this said, I think we have a working schematic of the system in Manitowoc.
3 cases, 3 men claiming innocence. 3 cases of bodies found but seperate from their personal items. lots of characteristics that seem to mirror each other.
So I have to ask this...if "Steven Avery has too many coincidences to be innocent"...wouldn't you say that Manitowoc's efforts to solve crimes with what seems like unsavory practices (attorneys turning on clients, dropping charges for witnesses, shady details of cleanups) are a bit too coincidental to overlook as well?
By DaveBegotka at Reddit
The 18-year-old, Debra Sukowaty, killed in 1977 and left in the quarry, seems to be the aunt of Carmen Boutwell, who died the day TH was reported missing (and looks like her twin). Obit of CB's aunt (some people saying great aunt but I don't think so) also mentions a Tom Tadych.
What I know so far is this girl goes missing and this guy says he finds her stuff in his car and freaks out and throws it into the river. Said stuff is found along with a ticket connected to him, so the cops find him. The guy, Ronald Dennis Fencl, denies everything but he's convicted of 1st degree murder. They found what they said was a hair of hers in his car.
Debra was found in a gravel pit (one newspaper said it was an abandoned gravel pit) but I don't see where it says any details to verify it was Radandt's. It was believed she was killed at that spot with hits to the head.
I think there were only three quarry companies in Manitowoc area, Radandt's being pretty big themselves; they had a lot of operations and it wouldn't surprise me if they owned it. Though it's not conclusive from what I'm saying, just to point out it's a likelihood.
SUKOWATY is Carmen Boutwell's mother's maiden name.
Carmen's mother: Judith Sukowaty Boutwell Wilson
Carmen's father:
John R Boutwell DOB 12/10/1960
ETA: I believe he died on 7/20/2009
ETA: I believe he died on 7/20/2009
Debbie Sukowaty was Carmen's cousin. http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/htrnews/obituary.aspx?pid=177774999
"Joseph Sukowaty was also preceded in death by: (among others) ...one granddaughter: Carmen Boutwell... and one Niece: Debbie Sukowaty."
Debbie's parents were Leroy and Virginia, Carmen's great uncle and great aunt.
Carmen's mom and Debbie would have been cousins. Joseph - grandpops had three children, Leroy had Debbie, and one of his daughters (I don't know her name) had X, who was Carmen's mother.
Check out this obituary from 2010 for a Sukowaty that lists as survivors a Debra Sukowaty and Tom Tadych, Manitowoc.
http://www.wieting-funeralhome.com/memsol.cgi?user_id=888952
https://wcca.wicourts.gov/caseDetails.do;jsessionid=38DCBD1CA01A988AEF7788F3D75E8D13.render6?caseNo=1998FA000089&countyNo=36&cacheId=F25D6A513AE99697C576465D6F3D3744&recordCount=26&offset=25
Any link to the anonymous letter? SIKIKEY?
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Trial-Exhibit-497-Investigator-Riddle-Report-on-Anonymous-Letter-KT.pdf
Debra Sukowaty
Last seen 9/24/77
Body Found 10/2/77
Pamela Claflin
Last seen: 9/13/93
Body Found: 9/21/93
Teresa Halbach
Last seen: 10/31/05
Remains found: 11/8/05
8 days, 8 days, and 8 days respectively.
It's just TOO weird that all of these women disappeared, and then 8-9 days later their bodies are found in an open area, isn't it? I mean, how many sloppy murderers are there in Manitowoc? Or, is there one very skillful one who targets women who've been with men who are easy to pin a murder on?
Someone has started another post after learning of two new killings in area and added one where the body was found near Zander Rd area or Morrison on this link also.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/4do45j/guilters_say_there_is_no_such_thing_as/
Let's organize this:
I'm going nuts here...:). Let's think!!!!
EDIT: based on obituary, Lynabelle Sukowaty had one more daughter who died before her. So, we need to find ONE more thing:
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Trial-Exhibit-497-Investigator-Riddle-Report-on-Anonymous-Letter-KT.pdf
Debra Sukowaty
Last seen 9/24/77
Body Found 10/2/77
Pamela Claflin
Last seen: 9/13/93
Body Found: 9/21/93
Teresa Halbach
Last seen: 10/31/05
Remains found: 11/8/05
8 days, 8 days, and 8 days respectively.
It's just TOO weird that all of these women disappeared, and then 8-9 days later their bodies are found in an open area, isn't it? I mean, how many sloppy murderers are there in Manitowoc? Or, is there one very skillful one who targets women who've been with men who are easy to pin a murder on?
Someone has started another post after learning of two new killings in area and added one where the body was found near Zander Rd area or Morrison on this link also.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/4do45j/guilters_say_there_is_no_such_thing_as/
Let's organize this:
- Judith Boutwell (Carmen's mother, alive) = Judy Wilson = Judith Sukowaty (maiden name), DOB 04-1964;
- Debra Sukowaty - disappeared on 09-24, 1977 , DOB 10/9/1958
- Lynabelle Sukowaty, died in 2010, DOB 1933
- Debra Sukowaty (alive in 2010, one of 6 daughters of Lynabelle Sukowaty), husband (??) Tom Tadych (connection to Scott Tadych);
- Judy Sukowaty (alive in 2010, is another daughter of 6 daughters of Lynabell Sukowaty).....is it the same person as Judith Boutwell (Carmen's mother)? might be the mother of Carmel (she was 15 @ birth. Est. age 51)
- Carmen's Boutwell Great Grandmother was Salome (SCHMITZ) Sukowaty (on mother side)
- Garmen's Boutwell Grandfather, Joseph Sukowaty, (died 2016, son of Salome Sukowaty)
I'm going nuts here...:). Let's think!!!!
EDIT: based on obituary, Lynabelle Sukowaty had one more daughter who died before her. So, we need to find ONE more thing:
- name/age of daughter (Lynabelle Sukowaty daughter) who died before 2010;
age of Debra Sukowaty who disappeared on 09-24, 1977.
A Little Help With Schmitz Please...
By Strikeout21 at Reddit
April 14, 2016
Anyone know anything about this guy, other than a possible Wendy Baldwin connection? Also, how did I not know that he was a VP of Field Operations overseeing construction of Wisconsin jails??
http://www.cdsmith.com/about/leadership-team
[–]foghaze 2 points
You should also add if anyone knows anything about Sippel too. I'd like to know where he lived. After all, it seems he gave his info first, not Schmitz.. If I had his address I might be able to figure something out.
[–]Strikeout21[S]
I can't find anything at all on either one of them.. Odd, considering the dirt that flies out on everyone else!
[–]onepieceofgumleft
This is an excerpt from a reply I got awhile from user name Refukulator regarding Schmitz and Sippel ...
"Coincidence that TH had an appointment with a man named Schmitz, who was selling a car for a man named Sippel? Coincidence that a LT Sippel of CCSO was guarding the RAV4? Or that there's a Sippel Funeral Home in New Holstein which offers cremation services? Or that Wendy "Schmitz" Baldwin has her fingerprints ALL OVER this investigation ?
More uncomfortable coincidences in this case ..??
[–]Strikeout21[S]
Right?? Why can't we find ANY info on these two guys? It's like they've been wiped clean from Google! Looks like LE chose the perfect pair to set up TH's first 'appointment' with.. They're entirely too clean and their appointment is almost textbook... She came, stayed 10 minutes, this is what she wore, and here's the cancelled check.
[–]onepieceofgumleft
It's like there's a never ending supply of suspicious activity, strange coincidences, shady people, and shady activities in this case!!
[–]Classic_Griswald
These guys are so normal though it makes them abnormal. In a place full of weirdos, the normal are weird. Something's wrong with these guys!
[–]Strikeout21[S]
I hate to say it, but that's exactly how I feel right now. This case has completely jacked up my perception. Since when is anyone in WI 'normal'? I ain't buyin it...
[–]Strikeout21[S]
I can't help but think, if this guy builds jails, he's got a relationship with law enforcement.
[–]Trapnjay
I looked into Sippel, that is how I found the funeral home. The Schmitzes and the Sippels are related. I will have to pull up what I found tomorrow. I printed out a few things on it but have to dig it up. I know Kelly Sippel was the only officer overseeing the Avery property, which is what inspired me to look.
[–]CopperPipeDream
I swear to gawd 95% of the people in Wisconsin are related. It's insane.
[–]onepieceofgumleft
I know !! ... Lol. I thought there was supposed to be 6 degrees of separation between people. In Wisconsin, it seems like 0-1 degree of separation !! It's like the relationship equivalent of the game "Twister". :D
[–]ahhhreallynow
On one of the documents I found an address, but it was blacked out. here: http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Trial-Exhibit-216-Wiegerts-Nov-3-Report.pdf. It has his town, postal code and first number in address. Could be a place to start.
[–]Thewormsate
Sippel exhibit 21, but why??? Why didn't Schmitz himself call with his own info?
[–]Jmystery1
Where did you come up with that Smits construction company with info? That is not spelled the same way, or do you know he works there.
[–]Strikeout21[S]
If you click on the link, it shows a picture of him with a listing of his projects. It could be different Steve Schmitz, but he's also been involved in the New Holstein education system.
[–]SSlipperySlope
It's almost like TH's day was staged with appointments made by family/friends of LE with Avery sandwiched right in the middle.
What if the first stop (Sippel) was used by the conspirators to observe TH prior to arriving at Avery's. The conspirators would have an exact location on her from that appointment on making sure there were no unwarranted witnesses or stops along the way. Once she finished up at Avery's, the conspirators could've used the Zipperer appointment to lure TH to any address they wanted or even intercept her just outside the Avery property.
Officer Baldwin's eulogy involvement, where burning of a mock sheriff occurred, would make a lot more sense if she knew LE utilized her and her relatives to aid in the murder of TH by placing that ad. I wonder if Baldwin was asked to do a favor and set up an appointment with AT. Baldwin likely was not told why, so she'd have no idea TH would end up murdered. This could explain why she was so upset and, more so, why she was involved in the eulogy, mocking the actions of LE in the burning event.
Wendy Baldwin - Her Interviews Infuriate Me !!
By onepieceofgumleft at Reddit
April 13, 2016
I can't stand reading Wendy Baldwin's interviews with people close to Steven Avery. They're nothing more than low end gossip and fear mongering !! I feel like I'm eavesdropping in a high school girl's bathroom every time I read one of her reports.
My least favourite report was when she interviewed Donna Avery (Charles ex-wife) ... PAGE 234 of CASO Reports.
First of all, Donna tells her that she's already spoken to LE, so there's no reason for WB to even be there.
WB conveniently arrives at 1:15, fifteen minutes before a televised news conference about TH's murder. She makes Donna sit down and watch the news conference about SA's "alleged" involvement (to work up her emotions), and then prods Donna for a reaction !!
I swear, if it wasn't for her SA smear campaign, Wendy wouldn't have added anything to the investigation. What a deplorable "officer". Three-page reports ripping SA's reputation apart and three-sentence reports on the "real" important investigative issues !!
[–]Minerva8918
Wendy Baldwin is the Judy Dverbiage of the 2005 case. Has her fuckin hands in everything.
[–]dark-dare
Not just her hands in the Remiker/Wiegert call, Wiegert says "the boss (Pagel) has a new chick", then she burns his effigy and get herself demoted to dispatch!!! I am reading between the lines, but I think she was climbing the ranks on her back, then he dumped her!!
[–]Refukulator
Me too. But for another reason. Oddly enough, TH's first appointment that fateful day was with a man named Schmitz.
Schmitz, of New Holstein, WI. was selling a car for a man named Sippel.
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Trial-Exhibit-216-Wiegerts-Nov-3-Report.pdf
A Lt Kelly Sippel with the Calumet County Sheriff's office was one of the officers to secure the Avery property.
There's a Sippel Funeral Home in New Holstein. It offers cremation services.
Probably just an odd coincidence, nothing to see here....move along now..
Born 1970's.
Daughter of
Robert Schmitz
and
Karen Seipel
[–]NAmember81
It's no surprise that the CASO officer that buddied up with the top goons from Manitowoc County ended up doing MCSO's bidding by proxy.
MC needed a seemingly "neutral" cop to do their dirty work and I think Wendy Baldwin fit that profile.
[–]pleasureoriley
I can’t stand Wendy Baldwin either! I have yet to discover her reason for even being other than Sheriff Pagel’s beck and call girl. It might suck to be her, though. She has to know she’s a poor representation of women in law enforcement—she tries too hard to be oh so witty and bright. And if Wendy truly thought SA’s house was immaculate in her opinion, she must live in filth!
[–]Yecart81
She subsequently and recently came out in a report saying the trailer was so clean. Unbelievably clean. What a liar.
[–]sogonethen
Another example is page 154, interview with Michelle (ex-girlfriend of Earl):
She said CHARLES would try to sweet talk females rather than using violence to get what he wanted. MICHELLE recalled an incident in 1988 where he attempted to force sex on her.
quite a contradiction. 'Force sex on' seems to be a phrase of Wendy Baldwin's, in multiple interviews.
She said it was approximately 1:00 a.m. and that she had laid down in the bed in the green house. She said CHARLES came into the bedroom
What, green house, bedroom? Is the latter Baldwin's description, because it had a (day?) bed in it?
and was trying to seduce and sweet talk her into having sex with him. She said he was clothed and was smoking a cigar at the time. She said CHARLES never did have sex with her; however, he tried to sweet talk and persuade her into doing that.
So which is this meant to be an example of, attempted, persuading or forcing? Dictionary definition of " force (oneself) on/upon" is "rape".
She said she did not feel very good about what had happened and had told EARL about it. MICHELLE said EARL had later gotten into a fight with CHARLES and they had been hitting each other with shovels.
Had to laugh at that image. How come they both had a shovel? 'Later' meaning how soon, related to this incident?
MICHELLE described DOLORES as always covering up for her children when they would do things.
Not one example is given to back this up, other than:
She said after that incident, DOLORES had changed the bedding and had straightened the bedroom. MICHELLE knew that she did this so the ashes from CHARLES's cigar were not there. MICHELLE said that, at a much later time, DOLORES did admit to changing the bedding because it had looked a mess.
What? So this is meant to imply that Charles was right over her bed, with cigar ash dropping on the bed? So much of it that Michelle (who must have just left it there) supposedly knows for sure that Dolores later noticed? But when asked about this for some reason, much later, Dolores 'admitted' (? explained?) that the bed just looked a mess?
[–]onepieceofgumleft[S]
The shovel fight made me chuckle too. The examples you brought up are exactly what I was referring to with my post (and there are more examples ... many more).
Her contribution to the investigation was a joke.
[–]SSlipperySlope
Her relation to the Sippels (TH first appointment, which was magically rescheduled to the 31st) is suspect enough. Hearing the family owns a funeral home is even more coincidental.
She was critical to obtaining initial interviews and smearing the Avery name.
Wonder what happened to make her take part in a eulogy/burning video of an effigy of the police chief with badges of various officers following Avery's conviction. Sounds very suspicious to me.
Then fast forward to 2016 and she is suspected of giving an interview about her early investigation of the Avery trailer, once again painting Avery as guilty.
What a wild card. I would bet she knows more than most about what really happened.
[–]Account1117
Then you'll love her confession. Page 381:
I'm sorry. [...] I'm sick. I'm very, very sick.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/4durq6/obvious_if_you_pick_apart_tweets/
[–]liftsheavy[S]
Steve Schmitz was in a canoe race in 2009 (page 2). Do any of the other names look familiar? IDK Just curious? http://sportea.com/WI%20River%20Canoe%20Race%20Results%202009.pdf
[–]mmh150
I think they are pointing out the other person in the race as Schmitz. There is a Steve Schmitz as TH's first appointment that day, not that the canoe race itself was notable.
[–]HorsesCostMoney
Just Steve Schmitz (?). But probably a common name?
[–]mmh150
Yeah, Steve Schmitz. Too much to think that he and the Arizona coach were friends [Tom McKenna: two days before her murder, about 15 minutes before midnight, Halbach made two calls to a phone number that belonged to a man who was charged in December 2015 of having sex with an underage girl in Arizona]? Didn't someone call in the ad other than Schmitz? Edit: Sippel called it in for him.
[–]Refukulator
But you owned that jointly with another gentleman?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. His name is Craig Sippel?
A. Yes.
Q. Mr. Sippel is the one who actually called and
made the appointment with Auto Trader?
A. Yes.
Q. And gave your address presumably --
A. Yes.
Q. -- as the place for the photo shoot?
A. Right.
pp 125/126
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Jury-Trial-Transcript-Day-2-2007Feb13.pdf
And then there's this guy
Q. This responsibility for security, was that yours
alone or was that shared?
A. The security on the property was shared with
Lieutenant Sippel.
Q. So the jury knows, who is Lieutenant Sippel.
A. He would be the dispatch lieutenant for the
Calumet Sheriff's Department.
Page 57:
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Jury-Trial-Transcript-Day-4-2007Feb15.pdf
And last but not least, this bunch of stuff. The dots have been connected on other threads in this sub. It's interesting to see all of the various familiar connections between the Sippels, Schmitz and Halbach families.
http://www.sippelfuneralhome.net/resources/common-questions
http://www.meiselwitzfh.com/fh/obituaries/obituary.cfm?o_id=2752154
http://www.obitsforlife.com/obituary/163076/Kraus-Charles.php
[–]mmh150
If Schmitz or Sippel know McKenna other than a crew race, then we have some real craziness. Edit: ie. Friends
[–]liftsheavy[S]
Sippel Funeral home. Cremations?? http://www.sippelfuneralhome.net/our-locations/st-cloud-location
[–]liftsheavy[S]
Did they use this funeral home for Carmen Boutwell's funeral?
[–]mmh150
The odd story/rumor is that the sheriff paid for her costs but there is no mention on what happened to her remains.
[–]Ductit
The evidence exhibits are a joke. I don't see how they could be so poorly done unless done so intentionally.
The intentionally blurred fax below is highly suspicious.
WHAT IF LAW ENFORCEMENT KILLED TERESA OR HIRED A HITMAN TO DO IT?
There is not conclusive evidence that Teresa's body was found. What if law enforcement was involved? What if she willingly went missing? What is she was murdered by a hit man [or trafficked into the sex industry]?
A hit makes sense, and LE would know people who would kill for money or who would do it to have charges reduced or dropped or to be released from prison early.
Don't forget the stunning quote from Manitowoc County Sheriff Kenneth Peterson, on record, when asked if the police could be setting up Avery: "It would have been 'easier to kill' him than frame him." Apparently the killing is the easy part. It's the framing that's hard.
In this case, bribing someone, possibly with a criminal record or someone who was just busted for a crime and was offered an "out" can be the avenue that was taken by these "men." Either way, I suspect law enforcement to be the master minds behind it all as they were not wanting to get their hands dirty, so they got someone else to do so. [barredea88, May 3, 2016, Reddit]
When dealing with cops though,I could see them getting a hitman - and not even having to pay one. They could set up one of their own informants with all kinds of charges (real or fake) to scare him into thinking he'd be going away for life ...unless he would do them a favor. Faced with life in prison, of course he'd go for it. And after the deed is done...well looky here, our informant is found dead of an overdose. Of course it wouldn't be looked at twice - he's a known criminal who's been on drugs for years, so showing up dead from an overdose is an expected event. No loose lips, no loose ends. No money trail. No way to tie the cops to any of it. [blondze, May 3, 2016, Reddit]Jodi Stachowski, Steven Avery's former fiance, said that he looked for cars to buy that he would fix up and sell for extra income, which would explain his frequent use of AutoTrader.
Jodi said that she and Steven were always together and that Steven seldom left the salvage yard except to go to his parents' cabin in Crivitz, so she would have been his alibi had she not been thrown in jail for a DWI in August 2005 (Jodi testified that she believed it was sometime in August, even though she was found guilty on May 9th). Steven told the cops that he was driving but Jodi was charged despite his claims and despite the fact she was not caught behind the wheel.
"Making a Murderer" claimed that she was arrested three times between June and August of 2005:
On May 9, 2005, she was found guilty by jury for a 5th OWI and driving with a revoked license. On June 17, 2005, she was placed on probation. She was to spend nine months in jail with work release starting August 15, 2005. Without good time credit that would give a release of May 2006. With good time credit, the release would be in March 2006.On April 18, 2007, during the Dassey trial, Special Prosecutor Ken Kratz questioned Jodi (day 3, page 172). He specifically asked where she was on October, 31, 2005, and why. She responded that she was in the Manitowoc County Jail for a fifth drunk driving offense. In August 2005, Stachowski had started a jail sentence of nine months for her fifth OWI offense. That would put the end of her sentence in March 2006. However, Jodi was released from jail on November 14, 2005, six days after Steven’s arrest.
Court records show an arrest warrant served on Stachowski on October 30, 2005, the day before the State claimed that Avery murdered Teresa Halbach. This was at Jodi’s Avery Road residence and was for nonpayment of fines from the OWI as detailed in Manitowoc County Case Number 2004CT000431.
If law enforcement were surveilling Avery, then they would have seen a pattern of Teresa coming to the salvage yard on Mondays (that is the day she covered Manitowoc and Sheboygan counties). They also could have been monitoring his calls with Jodi while she was in county jail (all calls are recorded). They possibly also had a tap on his phone lines. This means they could have known that Steven had called AutoTrader and requested a photographer come to take a picture on October 31st.
Dassey Trial, Day 3, Page 174, Direct Examination of Jodi Stachowski:
Q. During your stay at the Manitowoc County Jail, uh, which included, uh, Halloween of 2005, did you have occasion to remain in contact with your then fiance, Steven Avery?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. When was it, Ms. Stachowski, that you went into jail? That is, when was it that you had to report to jail, if you can remember?
A. I believe it was in August.
Q. All right. And how long of a stay? That is, how long were you scheduled to be in jail from August, '05?
A. Seven months.
Q. Between August, then, and October 31 of '05, uh, how regularly would you remain in contact with Mr. Avery?
A. I talked to him once a day.
Q. Were there any occasions, Ms. Stachowski, when you would talk to Mr. Avery on more than one occasion during a particular day?
A. Yeah.
Q. All right. And how would those conversations occur? In other words, were they in person or were they on the telephone?
A. On the telephone.
Q. Could you tell the jurors, please, how those phone calls would be placed? That is, would you place the calls to Mr. Avery or would he call you?
A. I had to call him collect.
Carmen Boutwell was coincidently arrested 2 weeks prior to TH murder.
CB had been arrested on a minor drug charge that occurred in July 2005. It appears she didn't show up for her hearing from the arrest in July 2005, so a warrant was issued on 10/12/05, two days after Teresa's fifth and next-to-last visit to Avery Auto Salvage to take pictures for AutoTrader.
- 10/17/2005 she demands a preliminary hearing and it was set for 10/26/05 (5 days before TH goes missing).
- 11/03/05 she has a review scheduled at 8:30 a.m that she obviously does not show up for because it is the day she is found dead and is also the same day TH is reported missing.
- 11/8/05 the record is updated and CB is reported as deceased, which is the same day TH bones were found.
At CB's 10/13/05 bail/bond hearing she is ordered to have no contact with a man named Gary Kreie. Out of curiousity, I looked up his criminal record. This man is a terrible seed in Manitowoc with a very large criminal history and reminds me of Gregory Allen. Just some of his charges include burglary, robbery, battery, assault, writing bad checks, escaping from jail, the list goes on. Felonies galore. How and why this man was still roaming the streets free is beyond me. He should have been locked up in the state prison just like G. Allen back in 1985, but for some strange reason it appears he is treated with leniency.
Below I have outlined the criminal record of interest regarding Gary Kreie. Again, the dates cannot be more coincidences. It's worth noting I have no idea CB's relation to GK. I've heard people call him her boyfriend but I have no way to prove that. The point is they were connected in some way aside from the "no contact order" from this report.
State of Wisconsin vs. G. KREIE
Manitowoc County Case Number 2005CF000352
On 10/7/05 he has a bail/bond hearing where it is decided that the matter is continued for initial appearance on 10/31/05 at 2:30 p.m. The date and almost the exact time TH was to be at Avery's and never seen or heard from again.
If he is in custody, what is the big deal? It's important to remember in 1985 Vogel tried to create an alibi for G. Allen but eventually got caught. He made up a blatant lie about how GA could not have committed the Penny Beerntsen crime b/c he was on probation in Door County. Here is a screenshot of where Vogel tried to create an alibi for GA. Here is the original source document. So the question is, did Vogel learn from this and manufacture a solid Alibi for the next frame up job? One that could be verified ON the record? Considering all these coincidences and the behavior of the men who framed Avery the first time, one has to ask these questions.
Interestingly, there is a note on GK's record that says Duplicate original delivered to Sheriff (Peterson). Why does it say this? Why is this being sent to a "Good ol boy"?
It's also worth noting on 10/31/05 GK's failure to report to jail was reduced from a felony to a misdemeanor. He was also able to leave the jail during normal hours under Huber Law. Note on Huber Law (1) Any person sentenced to a county jail for crime may be granted the privilege of leaving the jail during necessary and reasonable hours for any of the following purposes: Seeking employment or engaging in employment training, Working at employment, Performing community service work, self-employed occupation including housekeeping and attending the needs of the person’s family, Attendance at an educational institution, Medical treatment etc etc etc.
So even though GK was supposedly in custody he could come and go as he pleased from jail. Which is odd, considering his record. He is a repeat offender and should not be given these privileges in the first place. He has a history of escaping because of these privileges yet they give Huber privileges again anyway!
Now with all that being said, I think we can all agree it is quite odd both these individuals were in contact with LE and have very questionable dates and times on their records that correlate perfectly with the disappearance and death of TH. How can we say this is some kind of coincidence? Quite honestly it would be foolish to write this off because it's just too wacky. We need to question all of this until we get answers. The main question I have is, Was GK the the big dogs new G. Allen?
If you have been paying attention to recent news, you will know that Wisconsin is swarming with corruption. I'm not sure what is going on but I find it all too convenient GK was presumably in court at 2:30 p.m. on 10/31/05m almost the exact time TH was murdered. Seems like a good alibi if that is, in fact, what is going on here.
After discovering all this, there is no way we should dismiss it as nutty without even seeing the issues. Like I mentioned earlier, I thought it was so nutty I started looking into it to shut people up and flat out debunk it; but, needless to say, I cannot even remotely do that. I've tried letting this go but I just cannot do it. At this point there is some kind of connection between these people and the death of T. Halbach. The question is what?
Speaking of odd criminal records, according to Dedering in the CASO report (page 13), G. Zipperer had a Domestic Violence charge on his record, yet during Colborn's phone call to dispatch they tell Colborn GZ has a disorderly conduct criminal record. Presently, if you look up GZ's criminal record, you will find he has NO criminal charges in his history whatsoever. How on earth is someone's criminal history wiped clean?
Is LE abusing their power and arresting people under false pretenses to frame them? Likewise are they using these false arrests to bargain with those with criminal records so that their records are somehow cleaned up if they comply? It's a valid question at this point, and if you don't think it is, you haven't been paying attention.
[–]Ctthrt
I think GEK, Gary Earl Krerie, is GK's father.
I just found GEK's father's obituary, Earl J. K. It says he belonged to "Fraternal Order of Eagles No. 706" http://www.2manitowoc.com/44Krcobit.html
Also just found a Jermone Zipperer that also belonged to Fraternal Order of Eagles No. 706 http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/htrnews/obituary.aspx?n=jerome-m-zipperer&pid=154748200&
Looks like we have a Janda also in the same Fraternal Order of Eagles No. 706. Any relation? I know these last names are common. I also see the last name "Tadych" in his obit.
I'm just googling the "Frat order eagles" thing followed by the word obituary.
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/htrnews/obituary.aspx?pid=171050643
Found an Ethel Kocourek that belonged to Manitowoc Eagles Aerie #706 (it's the same club). Any relation to the Sheriff? I see a Remiker in there, but again, so many same last names.
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/htrnews/obituary.aspx?pid=170176884
Another one. Looks like Ken Peterson's relative, it lists a Ken Peterson of Manitwoc. Same Order of the Eagles 706.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=petersen&GSfn=vinton&GSiman=1&GScid=87895&GRid=95216148&
After this CB thread:
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/4lkfbv/the_curious_case_of_boutwell_kreie/
I decided to do some googling about this Kr. guy, turns out he had a father named E.J.K. According to his father's obituary (DOD 1999), he belonged to a "Fraternal Order of Eagles No. 706" club.
http://www.2manitowoc.com/44Krcobit.html
So I decided to google ""Fraternal Order of Eagles No. 706" followed by "obituary".
I found a JZ, who I believe is related to GZ, was also apart of this Fraternal 706 Eagles thing:
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/htrnews/obituary.aspx?n=jerome-m-zipperer&pid=154748200&
I also found a V.B.P that belonged to the club, it lists a Ken Peterson of Manitowoc as one of his survivors:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=petersen&GSfn=vinton&GSiman=1&GScid=87895&GRid=95216148&
I'm pretty sure I have the 1st 3 right.
I also found an E.Kreie belonged to the club, I believe she is related to Sheriff Kocourek, not entirely sure, she belonged to the Manitowoc Eagles Aerie #706, pretty sure it's the same thing.
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/htrnews/obituary.aspx?pid=170176884
Also found a Janda, I see the last name Tadych in there, any relation?
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/htrnews/obituary.aspx?pid=171050643
Found a Radandt that belonged to an Eagles club, yep the same Radandt family from MaM.
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/htrnews/obituary.aspx?pid=151003374
I haven't done much more googling as I'm very tired, I'm just gonna leave this here, does this mean anything to ya'll?
Found a Vogel, 706 club, related to our Vogel? I don't think it lists him, but maybe they're related somehow?
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/htrnews/obituary.aspx?pid=175504279
I decided to do some googling about this Kr. guy, turns out he had a father named E.J.K. According to his father's obituary (DOD 1999), he belonged to a "Fraternal Order of Eagles No. 706" club.
http://www.2manitowoc.com/44Krcobit.html
So I decided to google ""Fraternal Order of Eagles No. 706" followed by "obituary".
I found a JZ, who I believe is related to GZ, was also apart of this Fraternal 706 Eagles thing:
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/htrnews/obituary.aspx?n=jerome-m-zipperer&pid=154748200&
I also found a V.B.P that belonged to the club, it lists a Ken Peterson of Manitowoc as one of his survivors:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=petersen&GSfn=vinton&GSiman=1&GScid=87895&GRid=95216148&
I'm pretty sure I have the 1st 3 right.
I also found an E.Kreie belonged to the club, I believe she is related to Sheriff Kocourek, not entirely sure, she belonged to the Manitowoc Eagles Aerie #706, pretty sure it's the same thing.
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/htrnews/obituary.aspx?pid=170176884
Also found a Janda, I see the last name Tadych in there, any relation?
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/htrnews/obituary.aspx?pid=171050643
Found a Radandt that belonged to an Eagles club, yep the same Radandt family from MaM.
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/htrnews/obituary.aspx?pid=151003374
I haven't done much more googling as I'm very tired, I'm just gonna leave this here, does this mean anything to ya'll?
Found a Vogel, 706 club, related to our Vogel? I don't think it lists him, but maybe they're related somehow?
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/htrnews/obituary.aspx?pid=175504279
Thanks for bringing this up again. I have also done some extensive looking into all this and there are certainly a ton of oddities. It almost makes it seem as if GEK Jr. is the 2005 version of Gregory Allen. He is in prison as of 2015 (according to offender locator I had seen a while ago and his most recent WCCA updates)
Check out the GEK Jr. case from Calumet on 10/4/05 for Obstructing/Resist an Officer. KK was the prosecutor, and in the case details it lists on 10/17/05 a copy of JOC from Manitowoc (judgment of conviction) for another case from 3-15-05. In that case, a Felony Burglary and Forgery, Rohrer was prosecutor and Willis the Judge. GEK Jr. is sentenced to 4 years in prison and 3 years extended supervision but the sentence is imposed and stayed for 1 year jail time with Huber release for work and child care. He is to report to jail on 9/30/05 but does not and that leads to the 10/13/05 charge of failure to report. Oh yeah, and about that child and marriage, there are records about that from 2005 as well. GEK Jr. was married to a NHoch and had a child, and if IIRC, this NHoch is a younger sister(?) of Ricky Hochstetler from the hit and run case (Tom Kocoureck is rumored to have been the driver).
And, of course, can't forget to add in that CB was related to another murder victim from 1977 in Deborah "Debbie" Sukowaty, who's body was apparently found in a gravel pit/pond/swamp area that was owned by the Radandt's that is now reclaimed and home to MANY members of the MTSO. That is the case Fencl went to prison for, and IIRC had some very strange circumstances with his defense attorney and the MTSO. There are also interesting coincidences to where Sukowaty is interred, but I won't go into detail on those.
And then there is the new thing posted in this thread about GaEKr Sr. who is the father of this GEKr Jr., who we are talking about here, and his passing in 1999. In those cemetery records that I had never seen before is the Edwin Bruns name, which, if some may recall, was thought to be Gene Kusche and his possible alias if he had faked his own death and was living in Florida? Remember that thread??... The Zipperer and Shimek names also came up with the Bruns. I still have yet to follow those Bruns obit records that were just posted to see how they tie to this GEKr Sr. and GEKr Jr.
But I actually thought that the user was talking about Kusche before seeing the GEK Sr. he was referring to, and I have spent more time on that site with all the cemeteries than I would care to admit.
Alright...that is enough to add to your excellent post and all the strange things surrounding these two--but foremost is the death of CB and timing of GEKr Jr. escape. Even if it does not tie back to TH in the slightest...it is an unresolved mystery IMO that deserves some looking into, as this methadone/alcohol overdose combined with a no contact order with GEKr Jr and his "escape" is too mysterious to overlook regardless of the timing being so close to the TH disappearance.
[–]knowjustice
Once again, great post /u/Foghaze. You forgot to mention what links the late CB and GK. That information is located on the docket report in her CCAP record for 2005CF000341 - Dismissed (deceased).
10-13-2005
Bail/bond hearing
Koppa, Patricia A.
Tape Recorded
Additional Text:
"Defendant in custody on arrest warrant. The matter is continued for an initial appearance on 10-17-05 at 2:30 p.m. Bail is set at $1,000.00 recognizance bond with the condition that the defendant have no contact with Gary Kreie. Bail is furnished and the defendant is released from custody. Arrest warrant with service of officer thereon."
As to the confusion regarding hearing dates, my assumption is the court postponed the 10/26/05 hearing on 10/25/05 and rescheduled for 8:30 am on 11/03/05 at the request of her court-appointed attorney, who was first appointed on 10/21/05. It's very common for preliminary hearings to be rescheduled based on an attorney's schedule.
Having had plenty of experience as a litigant and a pro se plaintiff in Michigan's civil Circuit Courts and the US District Court in West Michigan, what Wisconsin deems a reasonable docket report amazes me. There is too little information making the report very confusing, which is one reason people have reached conclusions that may or may not be an accurate representation of the facts in a respective case.
It also explains why you and I have spent hours trying to decipher GK's records; the docket reports are a cluster.
[–]knowjustice
One would think he might be a person of interest, eh? More intriguing was Remiker's assertion early on that LE would likely never determine from whom CB acquired the drugs. Yet they busted her for pot -- guess they were more interested in going after "the hard stuff." LMAO
[–]foghaze[S]
The timing of that article was sketchy too. Apparently it came out late 2014 just when word got out that MaM signed with Netflix.
[–]SilkyBeesKnees
I am so glad you haven't let go of this, foghaze. The theory you laid out previously is my all time favourite. Yes, it's crazy, but as soon as you decide to take that leap it answers a lot of questions, doesn't it? I believe this case reaches high places of corruption. I also speculate that it is somehow connected to organized crime, maybe drugs. SA is just a tiny piece of the puzzle but with the scrutiny the case is under it could potentially blow much, much more wide open.
[–]foghaze[S]
About a month ago you posted about how damaging this could be for Kocourek and Vogel -- not just financially but their entire reputations. I don't think you had a specific person in mind who actually did the murder but speculated that K and V had a huge motive to orchestrate it happening. That really seems to be the case, in my opinion.
Ah yes, thank you. I actually linked that post in this post. I think it's very important to understand just what was going on with the civil case. After I looked into that there was no doubt in my mind the whole thing was a very well thought out premeditated murder. After that the crappy planters took over, but whoever premeditated and planned the murder was very sophisticated. K&V had help from professionals on the planning.
[–]Chevron07
Okay, I feel like I've seen all of these coincidences before, so I'm not anymore swayed than I was previously. What's still missing is a reason to link the two cases.
What in the world would be the point of it all? If GK actually offed TH for LE, then why not just use her remains? Take some of her blood to sprinkle at SA's trailer.
If someone else killed TH and they didn't have a body, but used CB's remains, how could they be so sure TH's remains wouldn't pop up somewhere?
I just don't see the thread connecting them other than coincidence.
[–]AConanDoyle
You bring up valid points. If you want to get rid of coincidence you have to reconcile the fact Teresa body was not just simply in the back of the RAV4.
I submit three possibilities under the assumption Steve is innocent of homicide:
1) Her body was in the car when it was planted and it was cremated at the hunting camp on Friday night by Steve because no one would believe him.
2) The L.E. murder was bungled by the assailants and they decided to rape Teresa before her death. The only way to undo evidence of this travesty was to cremate her body.
a) CB death is red herring.
b) They overdid the cremation and ended up with unidentifiable remains and tried to recover by the CB death and cremains.
Or, as you note, it is all coincidence in the tiny town of Manitowoc Halloween 2005 with a 36 million dollar lawsuit miraculously vanishing and every law enforcement and city commissioner actively participating in the framing, investigation, including RETIRED investigators. Two hundred investigators on scene and no one else found evidence but Manitowoc; and the CORONER was BANNED from the scene.
Those two facts and the CB overdose death of controlled methadone, of which Remiker was in charge of from a law enforcement perspective, in the same week, IMO, justifies the scrutiny foghaze presents to understand if two human beings currently incarcerated for essentially life are justly imprisoned and if the Carmen Boutwell and Gary Kreie events of the same location and time period involving the same law enforcement personal are connected and possibly connected to the evidence found on the Avery salvage yard
[–]Chevron07
Okay, I can get on board that the Gary Kreie is LE's go-to-guy for bad stuff, but how does any of that move the ball closer regarding CB? None of that requires a second body/set of bones.
Wait, are you saying that they incinerated TH so badly that you couldn't even tell the bones were human? Then they went back to the well and got the boyfriend to produce another body...
I just can't imagine they would be that desperate just to get bones into the fire pit. I would think that if they wanted bones that badly they could just get a box full from a Jane Doe that was scheduled for cremation without killing someone else.
[–]AConanDoyle
This is a small town, gene pool included, not sure how many young women die in a year let alone the first week in November.
I am willing to bet never before 2005 and never after 2005 did two women in their twenties die on Manitowoc on the first week in November.
It all goes back to a singular point: if Steve didn't kill her, why is her car there but no body?
Why not signs of a savage murder with blood everywhere as described, for example, by Brendon and his slashing of throat fantasy?
Why ban the coroner?
Why a just single bone BZ, found by Jost on the grass, with only a partial, but strong, mtdna match?
If Steve is innocent, a couple of possibilities:
a) Chuck and Steve found the planted car. They obviously realize they are being framed. They actually cremate the corpse that night.
CB is not involved.
Remains found in the RANDANT quarry are shuffled to the burn barrels etc.
b) They did not tamper with evidence by burning her body, which means something else happened.
Possibilities:
i) Someone Teresa knew killed her and hid her body. Car found, body needed. CB, unfortunately, becomes involved.
ii) LE systematically attacks Steve, coerces CB's boyfriend GK to be part of the act. They screw up, body is burnt, decision is made for a recovery plan, unfortunately for CB deliberate dual drug OD, death is followed by funeral home intervention and planting of partial cremains.
I actually find it difficult to believe any of this is possible let alone plausible because I live in a civilized city far removed from such goings on.
However I have a friend who lives in eastern Oregon and I can attest that a specific law enforcement officer in that small county has deliberately targeted, put under false arrest, imprisoned and closed small businesses of people he knows because of retribution for personal infidelities and dating the wrong guy's daughter. If you get on the wrong side of L.E. in small towns, it is very likely not going to end well.
[–]SilkyBeesKnees
Yes. Because as soon as you accept that the fortuitous timing of TH's death was not just a random event that worked out so nicely for the county, you have to ask who stood to gain the most by making the impending shit storm go away, and there you have it.
TIMELINE
The timeline outlined below is inaccurate, according to the motion for post-conviction relief filed by Kathleen Zellner on June 7, 2017.
11:43 a.m. - Teresa calls Barb Janda, Steven Avery's sister, and leaves a message, saying she'll be there around 2 p.m. or a little later.
12:51 p.m. - Teresa calls Schmitz. We don't know if they had a conversation or if Teresa left a message. We don't know what Teresa said. [Read farther down in this post, "The Steven Schmitz, Wendy Schmitz Baldwin, and Sippel Connection," about why Teresa may not have gone to Schmitz's on October 31st.]
1:15 - 1:30 p.m. - Schmitz says that Teresa arrived at his home, took picture(s), and left. Schmitz says she called him at 1:10 p.m., arrived at his home at 1:30 p.m., and left at 1:45 p.m., but he is off by 20 minutes because her cell phone pre-bill shows that she called him at 12:51 p.m., not 1:10 p.m. Plus, it would take about 45 minutes to drive from Schmitz's to Zipperer's, so if Teresa left Schmitz's at 1:45 p.m., as Schmitz testified, there wouldn't have been enough time for her to get to Zipperer's by 2:15 p.m.
2:12 p.m. - Teresa calls Zipperer.
2:13 p.m. - Teresa checks voicemail.
2:15 p.m. - Teresa arrives at Zipperer's. [There is proof Teresa did not arrive at Zipperer's before 2:49 p.m. — see the post, "Here's Proof Teresa Went to Avery's Before Zipperer's"]
2:15 p.m. - Bobby Dassey wakes up, showers and gets dressed (he worked third shift at the time and arrived home around 6:30 a.m.). Or he didn't go to sleep when he got home from work, or he awakened earlier, prior to noon (per Steven Avery's November 6th interview).
2:20 p.m. - Teresa leaves Zipperer's. It takes 13-15 minutes to get to Avery's from Zipperer's, so the earliest she would arrive at Avery's would be 2:35 p.m.
2:24 p.m. - Steven Avery, blocking his number, calls Teresa to find out if she is on her way. Teresa doesn't answer, and Steven hangs up when he gets her voicemail.
2:27 p.m. - As Teresa is driving to Avery's, she answers an incoming call. She talks for almost five minutes. Dawn at AutoTrader says this was her and that Teresa called her, but it was an incoming call, not outgoing. Dawn originally told Wiegert on November 3rd that she thought she left Teresa a voicemail that afternoon.
2:30ish p.m. - From the window, Bobby sees Teresa park near his mom's van. He watches her exit her vehicle and snap pictures of the van. The van is parked in the shared driveway between Bobby and Steven's homes. When she's done, Bobby sees her walk toward Steven's trailer. Bobby stops watching and goes to get his jacket and hunting bow. Bobby said on November 5th that "about 3 or 4 minutes went by between the time I got my jacket and the time I got into my truck" (CASO file, page 92).
Bobby's dictated statement to CASO detective John Dedering at 7:01 p.m. on 11/5/05:
On Monday, 10/31/05 at about 2:15 - 2:30 p.m., I got up to go deer hunting. I took a shower. I got dressed for bow hunting & noticed someone coming down the driveway. She stopped in front of my mom's maroon van that Steve is trying to sell for my mom. I watched her take pictures of the van. She got done with that & started to walk toward Steven's house. I grabbed my bow, got into my Blazer, and left. I didn't see the lady who took the pictures when I left. The S.U.V, a teal colored, possibly a Honda, was there when I left to go hunting. She had shoulder length brown hair, it looked darker to me. She was wearing a dark waist length jacket. She was skinny. About 3 or 4 minutes went by between the time I got my jacket and the time I got into my truck."
At trial, on 02/14/07, Bobby said it was 2:40-2:45 p.m. when he left to go hunting:
Q. About what time do you think you left hunting?
A. Probably twenty to three, quarter to three.
Q. Mr. Dassey, when you walked out to your vehicle to go bow hunting, did you notice if that teal or blue SUV was still in the driveway?
A. Yes, it was.
Steven Avery on 11/06/05, audio transcription:
A. She shuts the door and leaves.
Q. Is Bobby home then or no?
A. Yeah, Bobby's home.
Q. Does he come out or anything, does he see her leave?
A. I don't know, you'd have to ask him.
Q. But you know he's home?
A. Yeah.
Q. When she leaves, he's home?
A. Yeah.
Q. How far away from Bobby's vehicle you are you think?
A. His vehicle is sitting by her [Barb's] garage.
...
Q. And you know he's home, right, when he's leaving?
A. Yeah. Just when I walked in house, then come back, then he was gone.
Avery said on 11/6/05, "She shuts her door and leaves," but he said in his 11/5/05 interview with O'Neill that when he came back outside, five minutes after paying Teresa, he saw her signaling to turn left onto HWY 147. Avery didn't see Bobby leave. All he knows is: (1) After paying Teresa, she goes to her vehicle, gets in the driver's seat, reaches for an AutoTrader magazine, and gives it to him. (2) Teresa then shuts the door of her vehicle, with the engine running, and Steven goes back inside his trailer. (3) When Steven turns to go back inside his trailer, both Bobby and Teresa's vehicles are parked (Teresa's in the driveway and Bobby's farther away, by his mom's garage). (4) When Steven comes back outside, about five minutes later, both of their vehicles are gone: he doesn't see Bobby's Blazer but he does see Teresa at the end of Avery Road, signalling to turn left onto HWY 147.
Teresa was inside her vehicle when Bobby came outside to his truck, which was just a minute or so after Steven went inside his trailer, which is why Bobby saw Teresa's vehicle but not her when he got into his truck and drove off. Teresa left just minutes after Bobby did. When Steven came back outside, he saw Teresa, in her vehicle, about to turn left from Avery Road onto HWY 147 but he didn't see Bobby's Blazer because Bobby had left the property a minute or two before Teresa did.
2:35 p.m. - Steven starts to call Teresa or he accidentally redialed her number (Teresa's was the last number he dialed with his cell phone, the 2:24 call). He hangs up from the call before it registers with Teresa's phone (it doesn't list as an incoming call on her bill).
Does he hang up because he sees her outside taking pictures of the van? During his November 9th interrogation by Wiegert and Fassbender, Avery told them that he was wondering when Teresa would arrive so he called her (the first call at 2:24 p.m). Avery added, "Then she just showed up!" Did he start to call her a second time and simultaneosuly look out the window and see her there, taking pictures? He told Wiegert and Fassbender that when he saw her, she was already taking a picture of the van, so he grabbed the cash and the description he wrote and met her out by the van and her RAV4.
2:37 p.m. During the three or four minutes that Bobby is getting his jacket and bow, Steven goes out to meet Teresa by her SUV to pay her. He gives her $40 in cash (the bill is $39.95), and tells her he doesn't need a receipt. She gets into the driver's seat of her SUV and reaches for an AutoTrader magazine, which she gives to Steven. Steven may have had his hands on her driver's door as she reached for the magazine. Sitting in the driver's seat of her SUV, Teresa hands Steven the magazine, Steven takes the magazine, Teresa shuts the driver's door or her vehicle, and Steven goes inside his trailer.
2:39 p.m. - Teresa is in her SUV, getting ready to leave (doing paperwork, texting, etc.), when Bobby gets in his truck and leaves to go hunting. Bobby sees Teresa's
SUV, but not her (because she's inside it), as he leaves in his truck. He heads east onto HWY 147 toward Scott Tadych's home to go hunting. Scott's home is about two miles from Avery Salvage Yard. On November 5th, in Bobby's first interview with police, Dedering wrote that Bobby said "he left for deer bow hunting at approximately 1445 to 1500 hrs." Dedering also wrote: "Bobby indicated that as he was traveling on STH 147 towards the property he hunts deer on, he did observe an individual known to him as Scott Tadych. Bobby indicated that Scott would be able to verify precisely what time he had seen Bobby. Bobby stated that no one was in his vehicle with him." But Bobby remembered incorrectly or Dedering got it wrong when he wrote his report. If Bobby leaves home at 2:45-3:00 p.m. and passes Scott at 3:15 p.m. (per Scott's November 10th interview), and it is only two miles from Bobby's to Scott's, then Bobby would have passed Scott much earlier than 3:15 p.m. For this timeline to work, Bobby would have had to pass Scott on his was back home from Scott's, as Scott is returning home from Green Bay.2:42 p.m. - Teresa is in her SUV, getting ready to leave, or she is just leaving the Avery property, when she gets an incoming call, which goes to voicemail because she activated CFNA (call forwarding no answer) sometime between 2:32 and 2:42 p.m. or while it was ringing at 2:41:59. This is the last call to register with a cell tower. The cell tower that processes this call is approximately 13.1 miles away, in Whitelaw, WI. We do not know the phone number or the identity of this caller because (1) it was not included in Kratz's summary exhibit entered into evidence, and (2) Teresa's Cingular pre-bill entered into evidence does not list the numbers for incoming calls.
CFNA is a network feature that can be activated from a handset, and it also can be invoked by pressing "end" when the phone is ringing. CFNA allows you to make outgoing calls and to send and receive texts without being interrupted by incoming calls (Teresa's text messages were not entered into evidence).
When CFNA is activated, you must provide a forwarding phone number and a number of rings. CFNA forwards your phone to that forwarding number. If that forwarding number doesn't answer, then the call is sent to voicemail. The default behavior is for the phone to go to voicemail if it is unanswered.
We know the 2:41:59 unidentified caller left a message because the call is listed on Teresa's voicemial report.
Was Teresa texting from her vehicle before she left the Avery property? Could this be why she activated CFNA sometime between 2:32 and 2:42 p.m.? After Steven paid Teresa, he said she got into her vehicle and, from the driver's seat, handed him an AutoTrader magazine. After that, he went inside his trailer to drop off the magazine. When he came back outside about five minutes later to go to Barb's home and talk with Bobby (Bobby had left by the time Steven came back outside), he saw her at the end of Avery Road, signalling to turn left onto HWY 147. This means that Teresa was in her vehicle for about two or three minutes before driving off the Avery property. Could she have been texting someone, and did the texts lead to a hustle shot on Kuss Road?
(1) What is the standard ring time before the CFNA feature forwards the incoming call to voicemail?2:43ish p.m. - About five minutes pass from the time Steven was outside with Teresa until he comes back outside. He was heading over to Bobby's to talk to him but sees that Bobby's truck is now gone (Bobby left a minute or two before Teresa did). Steven looks across the field and sees Teresa signaling to turn left onto HWY 147 from Avery Road (Bobby had turned right, in the opposite direction).
(2) Did Teresa have her CFNA time set for 20 seconds?
Referring to the questions above:
If (1) or (2) is greater than 20 seconds, it suggests somebody hit the "end" button on Teresa's phone. From the incoming call Teresa received at 1:52 p.m., it appears her call rings out for 27 seconds before going to voicemail. The answer to question, "Did Teresa have her CFNA time set for greater than 20 seconds," is "yes"; therefore, Teresa pressed "end" as the 2:41 p.m. call was ringing.
3:15 p.m. - After Bobby hunts for about half an hour, he leaves Scott's place to return home. Scott passes Bobby on HWY 147, a half mile from Avery Road, as Bobby is returning home from Scott's place and as Scott is returning home from Green Bay. When Scott first was interviewed by detectives on November 10th, 11 days after Teresa went missing, he told them he got home at 3:15 p.m. on October 31st, after visiting his mother in the hospital in Green Bay (he had taken leave to do so). Scott testified 15-16 months later: "That morning, I was up by my mother; she had surgery. Then I left her and I went to the woods hunting. I went to my trailer and then I went to the woods hunting." He also testified that it was 3:00 p.m. rather than the time he said in his first statement, 3:15 p.m.
This is how Kratz worded the question to Scott at trial: "Could you tell the jury who you saw on the roadway before 3:00 that afternoon?" This is Scott's response: "I saw Bobby Dassey on Highway 147." Then Kratz asks Scott about the directions they were traveling when they passed each other: "I was going west and he [Bobby] was going east."
Scott told investigators on November 10, 2005 that he left the Aurora Care Medical Center in Green Bay at 2:15 p.m. on October 31st and drove home to his trailer, which is two miles east of Avery Road on Highway 147. He first told investigators that he arrived home at 3 p.m. but changed the time in his following statements to 3:15 p.m. It was 30-minute drive from the medical center to Scott's trailer home on Highway 147; therefore, he would have arrived home around 2:45 p.m. if he really left at 2:15 p.m.
It was crucial for the State to establish that Teresa was at Avery's after 3 p.m., but she wasn't. She was gone by 2:45 p.m. Scott said he went home and then went hunting, so he would have passed Bobby as he was driving eastward and Bobby was driving westward, but the State had to put Teresa and her SUV at Avery's after 3 p.m., which is why Scott lied about the time and directions they were traveling when they passed each other. Scott and Bobby were trying to get out of the line of fire as suspects. Bobby initially told investigators that he wasn't sure what time it was when he left the Avery property to go hunting. It is possible and probable that Scott and Bobby did not see each other, and Scott offered to give Bobby an alibi because Avery had told investigators that Bobby was the last one to see Teresa.
Kratz also used Scott to establish that there was a big fire at 7:30 p.m. on October 31st, when he says he dropped off Barb at her home, but this is another one of Scott lies. Barb backed up this lie in her November 14th statement to police (page 264). "Barbara said when she returned home at 8:00 p.m., she did see a rather large fire, approximately three feet high, in the pit at Steven's garage. She said she could tell there were two people standing there; however, does not know who that was. Barbara said Scott made the comment, 'Look how big the fire is.' Barbara stated she went into the house to tell whoever was in the house at the time that she was going to be leaving for a short time...Barbara stated when she returned home around midnight, she did not recall seeing the fire at that time."
On February 27, 2007, Scott testified at Avery's trial: "It was a big fire. It was bigger than normal... they [the flames] were almost as tall as the garage. Eight, ten feet. I don't know, ten feet maybe, ten feet tall the flames were."
On March 30, 2006, Scott told Dedering that on October 31st "Barbara spent the night at his residence and did not go home; he stated Barbara did go directly to work from his residence, to his knowledge" (page 723). This means that both Scott and Barb lied about events on October 31st. Also on March 30, 2006, Scott told Dedering that Steven had pretty much lost support from all the family members with the exception of Steven's mother, Dolores, and Steven's fiance, Jodi.
3:20 - 3:30 p.m. After returning home from hunting two miles from home, at Scott's place, Bobby goes back to sleep.
3:45 p.m. - The school bus driver drops off Blaine and Brendan at the mailboxes on Avery Road, right where the shared driveway begins. Blaine said that Bobby was sleeping when they got home but "he and Brendan coming home woke Bobby up."
4:35 p.m. - Steven calls Teresa because his mother wants to sell a front loader. Teresa's phone is no longer registering with any towers (it has been turned off or the battery is dead or has been removed or the phone has been destroyed) so the call is routed to voicemail by the network.
SCOTT TADYCH'S TESTIMONY
Statements in the case file suggest Teresa was seen at Avery's around 3:30 PM. But these statements were perjured testimony elicited by the police in order to bluff Brendan Dassey in his November 6th interview into some kind of confession.
School bus driver Lisa Buchner told deputies that she saw Teresa taking pictures of a van on October 31st, but she was mistaken. She saw Teresa taking pictures on October 10th, three weeks earlier, of vehicles at the start of the driveway, by the mailboxes, where she picked up and dropped off Blaine and Bobby. That's were Steven parked vehicles that he or other family members had for sale. He had a Grand Prix and a Blazer for sale.
Excerpts from Scott Tadych's testimony, day 12:
23 Q. And can you tell the jury how is it that you
24 remember that day, how that day sticks out in
25 your mind?
123
1 A. Um, it was the fire that I remember the most of
2 that day.
3 Q. You said the fire that you remember most, can you
4 tell the jury what fire you are talking about?
5 A. The fire by Steven's trailer.
6 Q. Let's back up just a little bit. Sometime on the
7 31st, that afternoon of the 31st of October,
8 2005, do you remember what you were doing?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Could you tell the jury what you did that
11 afternoon, please.
12 A. That afternoon -- or that morning, I was up by my
13 mother, she had surgery. Then I left her and I
14 went to the woods hunting. I went to my trailer
15 and then I went to the woods hunting.
16 Q. What kind of hunting did you do that day, Mr.
17 Tadych?
18 A. Archery hunting. Bow hunting, archery.
19 Q. About what time was it that you got out into the
20 woods, or that you got to your deer hunting
21 stand?
22 A. About 3:00.
23 Q. On your way to deer hunting, that would be just
24 before 3:00 p.m., did you observe anybody on the
25 roadway?
124
1 A. Yes, I did.
2 Q. Could you tell the jury who you saw on the
3 roadway before 3:00 that afternoon?
4 A. I saw Bobby Dassey on Highway 147.
5 Q. Which way were you going and which way was Bobby
6 going, if you recall?
7 A. I was going west and he was going east.
8 Q. Where is it, Mr. Tadych, that you hunt, or at
9 least that day, where was it that you were going
10 hunting?
11 A. In Kewaunee.
[See "Why would ST drive west on WI-147 to go to Kewaunee, WI to hunt" at Reddit for a breakdown on Scott's claim that he drove west from home on HWY 147 to go hunting in Kewaunee. This is Scott's alibi: that he left his home (two miles from Avery's) and passed Bobby on the way. Bobby and Scott alibied each other, not because they are guilty of any crime but because they wanted to get out of the line of fire. Scott lied under pressure from the State, which wanted a conviction at any cost, even if it meant fabricating and planting evidence and coaching witnesses to lie.]
...
5 Q. Do you remember about what time you got to Barb
6 Janda's house to pick her up that night?
7 A. Which time? What do you mean, after 5:00?
8 Q. Well, after you went hunting; did you stop?
9 A. Yes, I did.
10 Q. Was Barb home?
11 A. Yup.
12 Q. Do you remember, did she have work at that time?
13 Was she employed?
14 A. Yes, she was working.
15 Q. About what time was it that you got to her house,
16 if you remember?
17 A. Between 5 and quarter after, quarter after 5, 5,
18 something like that, around in there.
19 Q. Sometime around 5:15 then, when you got to her
20 house -- By the way, what kind of a vehicle were
21 you driving; do you recall?
22 A. A green Ford Ranger.
23 Q. When you got to her vehicle in the green Ford
24 Ranger, can you tell us where you parked?
25 A. When I got to her home?
127
1 Q. Yeah. Mr. Fassbender is going to give you a
2 laser pointer to help you describe for the jury
3 where you parked.
4 A. Right about there.
5 Q. And you are pointing which would be just to the
6 west --
7 A. Yup.
8 Q. -- of a purplish vehicle in what would be a
9 circle driveway; is that right?
10 A. Yup.
11 Q. And that's on Exhibit No. 98. Mr. Tadych, when
12 you parked that vehicle there sometime at about
13 5:15 p.m.; did you notice anything, or observe
14 anything unusual around that property? If you
15 recall, if not, we'll move on.
16 A. I don't recall at that time.
17 Q. Did you pick up Barb then?
18 A. Yes, I did.
19 Q. And where did you guys go?
20 A. Back to Green Bay.
21 Q. Did you visit your mother in the hospital?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. How long did that visit last; do you recall?
24 A. I was up there until probably -- I don't know,
25 7:30, quarter after 7, 7:30.
SO SCOTT IS BOTH AT THE HOSPITAL IN GREEN BAY AT 7:15 OR 7:30 P.M. AND ALSO AT BARB'S AT 7:30 OR 7:45 PM.
128
1 Q. Sometime after 7:30 p.m., then, did you return to
2 the Janda property?
3 A. Yes, I did.
4 Q. And were you still with Barb at the time?
5 A. Yes, I was.
6 Q. When you got back to the Janda property, was it
7 light out or dark out --
8 A. It was dark.
9 Q. -- at the time? Okay. Mr. Tadych, I'm going to
10 have to remind you to wait until my questions are
11 done so that the court reporter can write it all
12 down; is that okay?
13 A. Fine.
14 Q. All right. When you got back -- By the way, why
15 did you go back to the Janda property at that
16 time?
17 A. To drop Barb off at her house.
18 Q. And can you tell the jury why, please.
19 A. Drop her off at the house?
20 Q. Yes.
21 A. That's where she lived, I was going home.
22 Q. Were you going to see her later that night?
23 A. Yes, I was.
24 Q. So why did you stop at Barb's house?
25 A. To drop her off so she can get her vehicle.
129
1 Q. All right. In dropping Barb off so she could get
2 her vehicle, can you tell us where you parked at
3 that time?
4 A. Right about -- I come in and I parked right about
5 there.
6 Q. And if you can just use the laser point and tell
7 us from which way did you come in; do you
8 remember?
9 A. (Witness demonstrating.)
10 Q. All right. There's a purplish vehicle in front
11 of the residence; was that purple vehicle in that
12 circle driveway when you got there on the 31st?
13 A. I don't remember.
14 Q. But you came in from what would be a generally
15 easterly direction, you were generally going
16 west; is that right?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Did you park your vehicle?
19 A. Just long enough for her to get out of my
20 vehicle.
21 Q. And who is her?
22 A. Barb Janda.
23 Q. Did Barb get out of your vehicle?
24 A. Yes, she did.
25 Q. Where did Barb go, if you saw her?
130
1 A. She went towards the house.
2 Q. Towards whose house?
3 A. To her house.
4 Q. All right. At the time that you dropped Barb
5 off, do you know about what time it was?
6 A. 7:30, quarter to 8, something like that.
7 Q. About 7:30 to 7:45 p.m., did you notice anything
8 unusual around the property at that time?
IF HE DIDN'T LEAVE THE HOSPITAL IN GREEN BAY UNTIL 7:15 OR 7:30, HE COULDN'T BE DROPPING OFF BARB AT HER HOUSE AT 7:30 OR 7:45, SO ALL OF THIS TESTIMONY ARE LIES TO HELP THE STATE ESTABLISH THAT A BIG FIRE WAS BURNING BEHIND AVERY'S GARAGE AT 8 PM.
9 A. Yes, I did.
10 Q. Could you tell the jury what you saw at that
11 time, please.
12 A. I saw a big fire.
13 Q. Can you tell the jury where you saw the fire,
14 please.
15 A. Right there.
16 Q. You are pointing to an area just south of the
17 garage known as the Steven Avery garage; is that
18 right?
19 A. Yeah.
20 Q. Could you describe that fire for us, Mr. Tadych.
21 A. It was a big fire. It was bigger than normal.
22 Q. That's got a couple aspects to it. I'm going to
23 go one at time. First of all, you said that it
24 was a fire; did you see flames?
25 A. Yes, I did see flames.
131
1 Q. Did you notice if anybody was standing in the
2 area or around the fire? Did you notice somebody
3 back there?
4 A. Yes, I did.
5 Q. Do you know the defendant, Steven Avery?
6 A. Yes, I do.
7 Q. And did you see Steven Avery standing next to or
8 near that fire?
9 A. Yes, I did.
10 Q. Did you see what Steven Avery was doing at the
11 time?
12 A. Standing there, standing by the fire.
13 Q. All right. Are you able to estimate, from your
14 observations, how high or how tall the flames
15 were as you were watching there about 7:45?
16 A. They were almost as tall as the garage.
17 Q. All right. So --
18 A. Eight, ten feet. I don't know, ten feet maybe,
19 ten feet tall the flames were.
20 Q. It was a big fire?
21 A. It was a big fire.
22 Q. All right. Did you ever get out of your vehicle
23 at that time?
24 A. No, I did not.
25 Q. Did you ever approach the fire, or approach
132
1 Mr. Avery at that time?
2 A. No, I didn't.
3 Q. Where did you go then, Mr. Tadych?
4 A. I went back to where I was living at the time,
5 the trailer house on 147.
6 Q. I'm sorry, could you tell us what community that
7 was.
8 A. Mishicot.
9 Q. About how far away was your trailer from your
10 girlfriend Barb's trailer?
11 A. About 2-miles, 2 miles away.
12 Q. Sometime shortly after you got to your house,
13 that is sometime -- By the way, when did you get
14 to your house?
15 A. About quarter to 8.
16 Q. Okay. Do you know if it was before 8:00 or --
17 A. Before 8:00.
18 Q. -- how do you remember that?
19 A. Because I wanted to go home and watch a TV show.
20 Q. Which show did you want to go watch?
21 A. It was Prison Break, actually.
22 Q. Started at 8:00?
23 A. Yeah, it did.
24 Q. Did you get home before the show started?
25 A. Yes, I did.
1 Q. Sometime shortly after you got home, Mr. Tadych,
2 were you joined at your house by anybody?
3 A. Barb Janda.
4 Q. Do you know about what time Barb got to your
5 house?
6 A. I don't recall what time she got there, but it
7 was shortly after.
8 Q. Do you remember that night how long Barb stayed
9 at your house or how long she visited?
10 A. A couple hours, she was there.
11 Q. Did she spend the evening or did she leave to go
12 home at some point?
13 A. She left and went home.
14 Q. And do you have an estimate, as you think back,
15 as to when she left?
16 A. About 10:30, 11:00.
17 Q. That's your best estimate as you sit here today?
18 A. Yes.
19 ATTORNEY KRATZ: I think that's all I have,
20 Mr. Tadych. Thank you, sir.
21 THE COURT: Mr. Strang.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
23 BY ATTORNEY STRANG:
24 Q. Mr. Tadych, you remember October 31, 2005,
25 because you skipped work entirely that day?
134
1 A. I did not skip work, I took vacation that day to
2 go be with my mother.
3 Q. That is, you were not at work.
4 A. Right, I wasn't at work.
5 Q. I didn't mean to suggest it was unexcused, but
6 you did not go to work on October 31?
7 A. No, I didn't.
8 Q. You went to Green Bay to see your mother?
9 A. Yes, I did.
10 Q. She had recently had surgery, you say?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Other than your mother, who would have seen you
13 on October 31st before you say Bobby Dassey saw
14 you as the two of you drive past one another on
15 Highway 147?
16 A. Nobody, just -- I went from the hospital to my
17 trailer.
SCOTT DROVE HOME FROM THE HOSPITAL TO HIS TRAILER AND PASSED BOBBY AT 3:15 PM AS BOBBY WAS HEADING BACK HOME , WEST ON HWY 147, TO AVERY ROAD. BOBBY HAD FINISHED HUNTING AT SCOTT'S PLACE AND WAS 1/2 MILE FROM AVERY ROAD, WHEN HE PASSED SCOTT. SCOTT WAS HEADING HOME, EAST ON HWY 147 (HIS HOME IS ABOUT 2 MILES FROM AVERY'S HOME).
18 Q. Now, you got home from the hospital at about 3:15
19 that afternoon, you say, to your home?
20 A. No.
21 Q. When do you tell us today you got home from the
22 hospital?
23 A. I got home from the hospital -- for the first
24 time, I got home from the hospital was between
25 2:30 and quarter to 3.
135
1 Q. And that's your recollection today, oh, 15, 16
2 months after the events?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. All right. You remember talking to a couple of
5 law enforcement officers about this back on
6 November 29, 2005?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. And do you remember what you told them then about
9 when you got home from the hospital?
10 A. Which time are you asking me, first time or
11 second time?
12 Q. November 29, the first time you talked to them.
13 A. No, I don't recall.
14 Q. Do you suppose that reviewing a report one of
15 them prepared might help refresh your
16 recollection about that?
17 A. It might.
18 (Exhibit No. 356 marked for identification.)
19 Q. I show you Exhibit 356, which is a Division of
20 Criminal Investigation Report, and invite you to
21 look at Page 3. The second paragraph may be the
22 most helpful in refreshing your recollection, but
23 you are welcome to read to yourself any or all of
24 that report.
25 THE COURT: I think the witness is done,
136
1 Mr. Strang.
2 ATTORNEY STRANG: Very well.
3 Q. (By Attorney Strang)~ Did that help refresh your
4 recollection?
5 A. Yeah, it did.
6 Q. Did you tell the police on November 29 that you
7 arrived home at 3:15.
8 A. I may have.
9 Q. Well, do you remember telling them that or not?
10 A. No, I don't remember telling them that. It's
11 been such a long time.
12 Q. Do you think that maybe back on November 29 your
13 recollection was a little better than it is
14 today --
15 A. Yup.
16 Q. -- about events happening at that point, just one
17 month earlier?
18 A. What was that, sir?
19 Q. Do you think maybe your recollection back on
20 November 29, 2005, was maybe a little better than
21 it is today?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. It was just one month after the events in
24 question at that point?
25 A. Right.
1 Q. Now, you then -- you get home, you very quickly
2 get ready to go off deer hunting?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. You are going to drive west from your home to go
5 deer hunting?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Down Highway 147?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. It's a 15 minute drive or something like that to
10 your hunting spot?
11 A. Approximately, yeah.
12 Q. And this is when, on your way to hunting is when
13 you see Bobby Dassey?
14 A. Correct.
15 Q. He's going east in the other direction on Highway
16 147?
17 A. Correct.
18 Q. Now, Highway 147 at that point, if you know,
19 is -- what's the speed limit?
20 A. Speed limit on 147?
21 Q. Yeah, if you know?
22 A. 55.
23 Q. 55. All right. And the two of you, obviously,
24 are going in different directions?
25 A. Yes.
SCOTT SAID HE WENT HOME FIRST AND THEN WENT HUNTING AND THEN PICKED UP BARB AND DROVE WITH HER BACK TO THE HOSPITAL IN GREEN BAY AND THEN BACK TO BARB'S SO SHE COULD GET HER CAR AND COME OVER TO HIS PLACE.
138
1 Q. And so you pass each other and you are later able
2 to tell the police that Bobby was going deer
3 hunting?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. How did you know that?
6 A. How do I know that is because Bobby Dassey was
7 going to the trailer where I live to hunt behind
8 it.
9 Q. Let me understand, he's going to hunt deer right
10 behind your trailer?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. But you don't hunt deer right behind your
13 trailer?
14 A. Occasionally, yes.
15 Q. And when did he tell you about this hunting trip
16 that he planned right behind your trailer?
17 A. I don't recall him telling me. He had permission
18 from the landlord to hunt there.
19 Q. So you figured since you saw him driving east on
20 Highway 147 he must be going hunting?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Anybody else see you going west on 147 to go
23 hunting, so far as you know?
24 A. Bobby Dassey.
25 Q. Uh-huh, and had you told him that you were going
1 hunting?
2 A. No.
3 Q. How would he have known that you were going
4 hunting?
5 A. Because I was in my camouflage clothes.
6 ATTORNEY KRATZ: Objection, irrelevant,
7 Judge.
8 THE COURT: I'm going to overrule the
9 objection.
10 Q. (By Attorney Strang)~ You were in your camouflage
11 coat?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. In your green Ford Ranger?
14 A. Yup.
15 Q. Passing one another at 55 miles an hour?
16 A. Nope. Where I passed Bobby I probably was only
17 doing maybe 25 miles an hour tops. He was
18 slowing down to turn in my driveway and I was
19 driving up 147.
20 Q. I see. And so you surmise that he would have
21 known you were going deer hunting because he
22 would have seen you in your camouflage clothing?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Did you go hunting with anybody that day?
25 A. No.
140
1 Q. I want to go back just a moment, because this was
2 my mistake, November 29, 2005, was not the first
3 time you spoke to law enforcement officers about
4 Halloween, was it?
5 A. I don't recall.
6 Q. Does November 10 sound more like the first time?
7 A. Yeah, that sounds more like it.
8 Q. Okay. About 10 days, 11 days after Halloween?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Correct? And on that occasion, you also told the
11 police that you arrived home from seeing your
12 mother in Green Bay at 3:15, true?
13 A. True.
14 Q. Now, if I understood your testimony here today,
15 you get back to Barb Janda's home at about 5:15,
16 something like that?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. This is a home that she, at that point, shares
19 with her four sons?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. You see, at that point, Steven Avery, and Barb
22 Janda, and one of the Dassey boys, standing
23 outside talking?
24 A. I don't recall them standing outside. I don't
25 recall seeing anybody at that time besides Barb.
1 Q. All right. And is it your testimony today that
2 you don't recall seeing a fire in that burn area
3 there behind --
4 A. Oh, I seen a fire there.
5 Q. Oh, you did see the fire there?
6 A. Oh, yeah.
7 Q. At 5:15?
8 A. I don't recall seeing a fire at 5:15.
9 Q. All right. When do you tell us today you first
10 recall seeing the fire --
11 A. I first --
12 Q. -- in the burn area --
13 A. I first remember seeing the fire --
14 THE COURT: Mr. Tadych, let Mr. Strang
15 finish his question first.
16 Q. (By Attorney Strang)~ Fire, burn area, behind
17 garage. Today, when did you tell us you first
18 saw that fire?
19 A. I really remember first seeing it the second time
20 I was there.
21 Q. Well, would it help to look at Exhibit 356 again
22 to see what you told the police on November 29th?
23 ATTORNEY KRATZ: Objection, your Honor, he
24 hasn't claimed any lack of memory.
25 Q. Do you recall telling the police, on November 29,
142
1 that you saw a fire burning in the area behind
2 Steve's garage between 5:15 and 5:30 --
3 THE COURT: Just a minute, you can ask him
4 the question, but let's pull the exhibit away.
5 ATTORNEY STRANG: Okay.
6 Q. Do you recall telling the police, the officers,
7 that between 5:15 and 5:30, on October 31, 2005,
8 you saw two people standing around a fire that
9 was burning in the area behind Steven's garage.
10 A. That was the second time I seen him standing,
11 when I came back. I don't recall --
12 Q. You don't recall telling the police you saw that
13 between 5:15 and 5:30?
14 A. Not that -- No, I don't recall.
15 Q. All right.
16 A. I seen it the second time.
17 Q. Well, take a look, again, at Exhibit 356. That's
18 not the one I want.
19 (Exhibit No. 357 marked for identification.)
20 Q. I show you Exhibit 357, a DCI report, interview
21 with you that occurred on November 29, 2005.
22 Again, look at any part of it you like. The
23 third paragraph on that page may be the most
24 helpful in refreshing your recollection. All
25 done? Having looked at that, does that refresh
143
1 your recollection about what you told the police
2 on November 29?
3 A. Yes, it does.
4 Q. Did you tell the police on November 29, that
5 between 5:15 and 5:30 p.m. you saw two people
6 standing around a fire burning in the area behind
7 Steven's garage?
8 A. Yes, I did.
9 Q. Memory fresher then than it is today?
10 A. What was that, sir?
11 Q. Is your memory fresher today or was it fresher
12 back on November 29, 2005?
13 A. Fresher back on the 29th of November.
14 Q. And is that the -- If I understood you today, you
15 are telling us that when you see the fire later,
16 sometime after 7:30, you think the flames were
17 almost as high as the garage, maybe 8 to 10 feet?
18 A. Yeah.
19 Q. Was November 29 also the day that you told the
20 police that the flames were at least 3 feet high,
21 at least that high?
22 A. Must have.
23 Q. Whenever you saw this fire, and however many
24 times you saw it, you smelled nothing strange
25 coming from the fire?
1 A. No.
2 Q. You heard no one screaming?
3 A. No.
4 Q. You heard no gunshots?
5 A. No.
6 Q. You didn't see Mr. Avery trying to conceal
7 himself in any way?
8 A. No.
9 Q. Especially at 7:15, 7:30, when you drove up, you
10 would have driven up the driveway, with your
11 headlights on?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. After dark, right?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And as you drove west down this lane, as I
16 understand your testimony, then you swung into
17 the driveway this way?
18 A. No, the other way.
19 Q. Came in this way?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. But parked over here?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. All right. So you would have had your headlights
24 on until you parked the car and turned it off?
25 A. I didn't shut my car off.
145
1 Q. Had the headlights on the entire time?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Now, if I understood you as well, today, you have
4 told us that Barb came to your house a little
5 later that evening?
6 A. Correct.
7 Q. You dropped her off, right, she goes in the
8 house?
9 A. I don't know what she did.
10 Q. You dropped her off, you presume she went in the
11 house?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And then shortly later, she appears at your
14 house?
15 A. Correct.
16 Q. Barb, by the way, at that time, was married to
17 your cousin, Tom Janda?
18 A. Correct.
19 Q. You know, separated or whatever?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. But the name Janda comes from your cousin, Tom
22 Janda?
23 A. You are absolutely right.
24 Q. Okay. And so she comes to your house and the two
25 of you are going to watch television?
1 A. Correct.
2 Q. You remember specifically that you wanted to
3 watch a show called "Prison Break"?
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. Is that something you were recording on the VCR?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Or TiVo, something like that?
8 A. No.
9 Q. You were going to actually watch it as it was
10 broadcast?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Which is why you think you got home at 8:00?
13 A. That's exactly why I wanted to be home.
14 Q. Now, she stays, the two of you watch that show?
15 A. Correct.
16 Q. You have a memory of watching that show?
17 A. Yup.
18 Q. And then your recollection, as you told us today,
19 is that she leaves somewhere around 10:30 or 11?
20 A. Correct.
21 Q. You are quite sure that she leaves and goes home?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Well, you talked with the police yet a third
24 time, I guess at least, didn't you, after
25 November 29?
147
1 A. I may have.
2 Q. March 30, 2006, does that sound about right?
3 A. Could be.
4 Q. And Investigator John Dedering from the Calumet
5 County Sheriff's Department?
6 A. Could be.
7 Q. Do you recall telling Investigator Dedering that
8 Barb spent the night at your residence and did
9 not go home, and that you knew she did go
10 directly to work, from your residence, to your
11 knowledge?
12 A. I don't recall that.
13 Q. You don't recall that. Okay. Do you think
14 reviewing Investigator Dedering's report might
15 help refresh your recollection about that?
16 A. I'm sure it will.
17 (Exhibit No. 358 marked for identification.)
18 Q. It is -- I will show you Exhibit 358,
19 Investigator Dedering's report of his interview
20 with you on March 30, 2006. Read to yourself any
21 part of it you like. The very bottom on the
22 first page may be most helpful.
23 THE COURT: Are you done, Mr. Tadych?
24 THE WITNESS: Yes.
25 THE COURT: I believe he's ready.
1 Q. (By Attorney Strang)~ All done? Does that help
2 refresh your recollection?
3 A. Yeah, I guess.
4 Q. About what you told Investigator Dedering?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Did you tell Investigator Dedering, on March 30,
7 that Barb spent the night at your residence and
8 did not go home; Barb did go directly to work
9 from your residence to your knowledge?
10 A. Yes, I did.
11 Q. Barb works an early morning shift, at least at
12 that time?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Until sometime in the mid afternoon?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Sometime around the time that you talked to
17 Investigator Dedering, on the occasion you just
18 described, were you trying to sell one of the
19 Dassey boy's .22's to a man named Jay Mathison
20 (phonetic) at work?
21 A. No.
22 Q. You weren't? And you are sure, though, that you
23 watched the show Prison Break starting at
24 8:00 p.m. on Monday, October 31, 2005?
25 A. Am I sure?
149
1 Q. Yeah.
2 A. Yup.
3 Q. Are as you sure of that --
4 A. Maybe not.
5 Q. --as you are of anything you testified --
6 A. Maybe not.
7 Q. -- here?
8 A. But I'm sure that's what I went home to watch.
9 Q. Okay. You are sure it was 8:00?
10 A. Yeah.
11 Q. As sure as you are --
12 A. I'm sure it's 8:00.
13 Q. Are you as sure of that as you are of anything
14 you testified to here today?
15 A. I guess not. I don't know.
16 ATTORNEY STRANG: That's all I have.
For a transcription of Brendan Dassey's first interrogation on November 6th, go to the following link:
http://georgezipperer.blogspot.com/2016/10/brendan-dasseys-first-interrogation-was.html
The following is an excerpt of the DCI report of Blaine Dassey's interrogation on November 7th.
http://georgezipperer.blogspot.com/2016/10/brendan-dasseys-first-interrogation-was.html
The following is an excerpt of the DCI report of Blaine Dassey's interrogation on November 7th.
Cpl. Leslie Lemieux's report of her November 3, 2005 activity:
I spoke with TERESA's supervisor ANGELA SCHUSTER at the AUTO TRADER magazine by phone. SCHUSTER said that the last contact she had with TERESA was a fax received of her workday on 10/31/05. SCHUSTER said the timestamp she could find on the fax indicated 0013 hours. ANGELA said that she knew from the fax that TERESA had rescheduled some of her Saturday appointments for Monday. ANGELA said she was aware of several photo shoot appointments that were scheduled for Monday.Inv. Mark Wiegert's report on his November 3, 2005 activity:
ANGELA said there was a photo shoot scheduled with a CRAIG SIPPEL from New Holstein, a B. JANDA from Two Rivers and a GEORGE ZIPPERER of Manitowoc. ANGELA said that she did not know whether TERESA made all those scheduled appointments at this time as she had not received a fax confirmation from TERESA as of yet.
ANGELA said that TERESA was notified of jobs by phone and most of the communication was by phone or fax. ANGELA said she did not have contact with TERESA on a daily basis, only as appointments were scheduled. ANGELA said that she was waiting for a call back from the appointments to see if they had indeed been completed. ANGELA said she would have become concerned by tomorrow if she had still not heard anything from TERESA.
ANGELA said TERESA did have scheduled appointments for photo shoots for the AUTO TRADER magazine today. ANGELA said in checking those appointments she was told that TERESA did not show up. ANGELA said they had not received any call or notice from TERESA that she would not be making those appointments today.
On 11/03/05 at approximately 1730 hours, I (Inv. MARK WIEGERT of the CALUMET COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT) received a phone call from Cpl. LEMIEUX of the CALUMET COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT. Cpl. LEMIEUX was requesting my assistance in locating a missing person by the name of TERESA HALBACH. I requested that Cpl. LEMIEUX respond to my office so I could speak with her reference this incident. When Cpl. LEMIEUX arrived, she informed me that TERESA HALBACH had been reported as missing by her mother, KAREN. Cpl. LEMIEUX also informed me she had already spoken with ANGELA SCHUSTER from the AUTO TRADER magazine who gave her three names of appointments that TERESA was supposed to be at on Monday. Cpl. LEMIEUX gave me the names of CRAIG SIPPEL, B. JANDA and GEORGE ZIPPERER as people that TERESA was to meet with on Monday.John Dedering's report of his November 3, 2005 activity:
On 11/03/05, I (lnv. WIEGERT of the CALUMET COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT) did make phone contact with ANGELA SCHUSTER. My reason for contacting ANGELA was that she would be TERESA's contact at the AUTO TRADER magazine. It should be noted ANGELA had previously been spoken to by Cpl. LEMIEUX and was aware of the situation with TERESA being missing.
I informed ANGELA we were reviewing TERESA's phone records and there was an incoming call at 2:27 p.m. on 10/31/05 from the phone number of 414-425-8772, the AUTO TRADER magazine. ANGELA stated it was possibly a voice mail message that was left for TERESA but she is not sure. She states they commonly call their photographers and leave them messages on their voice mail about appointments that are to be done.
ANGELA states she thought something was odd because on Monday she received a fax from TERESA from the number of 920-435-1367. In checking that phone number, it comes back to a Green Bay address. For more information on that, please see Inv. DEDERING's report.
ANGELA states she thought it was odd receiving that fax because she would assume it would have come the day after TERESA's assignments were completed but there was nothing on the fax indicating TERESA had done her Monday jobs. In checking the time on the fax, the fax would have come in the early morning of Monday and TERESA would not have completed the other photo shoots set for Monday at that time. ANGELA did tell me TERESA had confided in some people at the AUTO TRADER magazine when she (meaning TERESA) had been at STEVEN AVERY's residence on a prior occasion, he had come out of the house trailer to meet her wearing nothing but a towel.
ANGELA did tell me there were two appointments set up for TERESA on 11/03/05 and TERESA did not show up for either of those appointments.
ANGELA also informed me she had spoken with GEORGE ZIPPERER, one of TERESA's appointments for Monday, and GEORGE had confirmed to her TERESA, in fact, had shown up and taken the picture, which she was supposed to do. I informed ANGELA
I would like to get a copy of TERESA's last fax to her and any other information she could provide me about TERESA's appointments in that timeframe. ANGELA also provided me with the name of DAWN PLISZKA who works for the AUTO TRADER magazine and makes a lot of the phone calls. That was the end of my conversation with ANGELA.
On Thursday 11/03/05 at approximately 2140 hrs., Det. REMIKER, Sgt. COLBORN and myself (Inv. DEDERING) did attempt to make contact at the residence of GEORGE ZIPPERER located at 4433 CTH B, Manitowoc, WI. We initially received no response to our repeated knocks at the door. MANITOWOC CO. DISPATCH was advised to place calls to the phone number for the ZIPPERERS and they indicated that they reached an answering machine. I also attempted to contact the ZIPPERER residence via cellular ohone and obtained the same results. The door was ultimately answered bv the following individual:John Dedering's report of his November 6, 2005 activity:
GEORGE B. ZIPPERER
4433 CTH B Manitowoc, WI
Phone 920-682-5719
GEORGE was extremely belligerent initially, and it was my impression that he was apparently intoxicated. GEORGE indicated to me that the person from the AUTO TRADER had been at his residence, and that he wanted her arrested. He indicated that she had no permission to be on his property, and therefore, she was trespassing.
GEORGE continued in a boisterous manner even after I advised him that TERESA HALBACH had been reported as a missing person, and that his telephone number was one of the last numbers she had placed outgoing telephone calls to from her cellular phone.
I also spoke with GEORGE's son, JASON W. ZIPPERER, 09/14/87, same address and phone. He indicated that he had advertised a '77 Pontiac Firebird for sale, but to his knowledge, he had not made any contact with the AUTO TRADER to have it advertised. JASON ZIPPERER indicated that he attends LINCOLN HIGH SCHOOL, Manitowoc, WI, and that he was there the entire day on Monday, 10/31. He further indicates that he attends LTC in Cleveland on Tuesdays.
During this time, he did walk me out to the'77 Firebird that he had for sale. He indicated that this vehicle was located south of the ZIPPERER residence and it was somewhat concealed by trees. JASON indicated the vehicle could be seen from the road, and when I looked backwards towards the road, I determined that this, in fact, was the case.
I asked JASON and GEORGE whether either of them had made contact with the AUTO TRADER to schedule a photography shoot of the vehicle. JASON indicated he did not and GEORGE further denied calling the AUTO TRADER magazine. I did address statements made apparently by GEORGE to Cpl. LEMIEUX (see LEMIEUX's detailed report for information conceming this). GEORGE indicated that he had, in fact, told Cpl. LEMIEUX that his son, JASON, was on his way to Alaska to find work. ZIPPERER indicated that he does this to "have a little fun" when people who he does not know call his phone.
At 2153 hrs., I was allowed into the ZIPPERER residence. I did review voice mail messages left on the answering machine and Caller IDs. I did locate a Caller ID entry on 10/31/05 at 2:12 p.m. from phone number 920-731-4731. I recognized this as being the cellular phone number of TERESA HALBACH. I did review the voice mail messages and did locate a voice mail message from TERESA HALBACH indicating that she was calling on Monday about 2:15 p.m. She stated she was in the neighborhood, and that she was trying to photograph a 1977 Pontiac Firebird. She stated that she was having problems finding the residence and hoped to do so in the next few minutes.
I had been allowed access to the residence by both JO ELLEN ZIPPERER and GEORGE ZIPPERER. It should be noted that this voice mail message or answering machine message was subsequently copied by Det, JACOBS on Sunday, 11/06/05. In speaking with JO ELLEN ZIPPERER, DOB 07/15/46, she stated she was in the backyard and apparently missed the telephone call that Ms. HALBACH placed. She stated sometime in the afternoon, a young lady did come to the residence and advised that she was from the AUTO TRADER and was there to photograph a vehicle. She indicated she gave the young lady directions to where the car described as a 1977 Firebird had been located, and the girl had come back between five and ten minutes later indicating that she had gotten her pictures. JO ELLEN ZIPPERER advised the girl was happy and smiling. Ms. ZIPPERER indicated that she did not see what vehicle, if any, the young lady had arrived in, nor could she tell me whether the young lady had arrived by herself or with someone else. JO ELLEN indicate she could not determine which direction the young lady traveled on CTH B when she left as she had never actually seen the vehicle the young lady arrived in.
JO ELLEN and GEORGE did provide me with a copy of an AUTO TRADER magazine, which had been left by the photographer, along with some pricing information and a yellow sign indicating "For Sale as Advertised in AUTO TRADER." I thanked the ZIPPERERS for their information and left the residence. These items were subsequently placed into evidence.
On Sunday, 11/06/05 at 0821 hrs., I (DEDERING) assisted by Det. JACOBS did make contact with GEORGE ZIPPERER, previously mentioned in this report at his residence, 4433 CTH B, Manitowoc, WI. prior to asking ZIPPERER any questions, I advised him he was free to go, was not under arrest and could terminate the conversation at anytime he so chose. He indicated he understood this. He stated he would agree to answer questions.
I asked GEORGE ZIPPERER if he had ever done business with the AVERY'S AUTO SALVAGE operation. His response was "Hell no, I don't even know them." I asked him if he had ever been at the AVERY business and he responded, "No." I asked him if he was in any way related or close friends with the AVERYS and his response was "No."
GEORGE ZIPPERER indicated that on Monday, 10/31/05, he was at BELABAN REAL ESTATE OFFICES near the intersection of 1lth and Marshall in the City of Manitowoc. He stated that he was on the job site from 8:00 a.m. approximately until 5:00 p.m. He stated that he never left the job site and has witnesses that can verify this.
GEORGE indicated that a female photographer had called the residence previously and was told by GEORGE not to come onto the property. GEORGE did not recall when this conversation had taken place.
I did take the following written statement from GEORGE ZIPPERER:
"On Monday, 10/31/05, I was on a job on Marshall Street between 10th and 11th in Manitowoc. I got there at 8: am. I didn't leave the site during the day, and I left the job about 5 pm. Mark Belaban was there, along with at least one employee, Rick Strosner (ph). There was also a painter there. The building is on the S/W corner of 11th and Marshall.
"I've never done business with the Avery family. I've never been to the Avery junk yard. I am not friends with any of the Avery family.
"I have dictated this statement to Investigator Dedering. I have read this statement and have initialed all the corrections. This statement is true and accurate."
This statement was signed in my presence by GEORGE ZIPPERER at 1045 hrs. on 11/06/05. My contact with GEORGE ZIPPERER ended at 0852 hrs.
[–]maxmozo at Reddit
ReplyDeleteI think that the TH murder was a terrific coincidence that was seized upon by LE as a way to save their bacon. I think the timing isn't as coincidental as many see it to be. While the TH case interrupted and prevented Koucourek and Vogel from being deposed, many of the other key members of LE who were called had already been deposed. The trial and judgement were still many, many months off. So while K and V escaped the professional embarrassment of lying under oath, the financial damage was still a long way off.
That being said, I think that once the car was found (by AC on his checking the plate phone call), they sprung into action seizing a hail mary type opportunity. They had some false starts (the for sale sign), had to watch out for the actual investigation (coordinate the location of the RAV planting based on the flyover), and get SA out of the way (Gun charge) to plant the exact evidence that they would need to convict. They had enough DNA from TH (the contents of her entire panty drawer and hamper, as well as other personals and her hairbrush) to put on the bullet. They had her hair from the brush, which could have been melted and treated as "tissue on bone" and used for mtDNA matching. Hair without root can be used for this. Its all so pat and convenient that within a week of beginning the search for TH, they have confirmed DNA evidence on both TH and SA (according to the KK pressers), as well as the key and the plates located in mind-numbingly dumb proximity to their suspect. The blood by the ignition ties so conveniently to the key in his secret compartment laden record shelf. Their case is wrapped up in a big red bow in less than a WEEK. They have the press conferences led by KK with his sole intention of poisoning the jury pool. They take a couple of months to work on BD and get the magic bullet as icing on the cake. The salt the jury with insiders. They do every thing to get their conviction, coaching witness after witness. The trial is theater of the absurd.
As far as the potential for SA having actually have done it, think about what he would have to lose. Think about how dumb he would actually have to be to casually leave evidence all over the place that was for sure going to lead to his arrest and conviction. Not only that, but have the balls to allow the police, whom he was currently at war with, on to his property (without a warrant no less), in a show of ultimate cooperation. He could have told them to pound sand and no one would have blamed him but he didn't because he had nothing to hide. He has no motive to speak of. It goes against logic that he did this crime.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/4hos1w/the_start_of_the_master_plan/
[–]JJacks61 at Reddit
ReplyDeleteKratz made a big show at the trial trying to convince the jury that the civil trial and the Halbach case were not connected. Knowing how much of a manipulator he is speaks volumes to me.
Of course they are connected, it's too coincidental. It's too convenient. It's too tidy for Kocourek, Vogel and the county. Just in time to get their ass off the hook for their prior bad acts. With Avery scrambling for his freedom, his Civil attorney's reeling, they were denied access to him. Sound familiar?
You have to ask, who gained the most with Avery back in prison? Earl and Chuck did get more control of the business back, but that gain is nothing compared to the lawsuit.
Motive, means and opportunity. I think there were those that took advantage of a situation that Teresa got caught up in, whatever that was. The piss poor investigation (most of it anyway) with such terrible documentation should be criminal.
I think when Kratz was anointed Special Prosecutor, it fed straight into his drug fueled, narcissistic personality and he was going to show the State how much power he could wield. It cost him damn near everything, to the point he has admitted giving felatio to a gun. This is who we trust in telling ANY kind of truth?
I don't believe one word that comes out of his mouth. His mouth opens and lies just fall out.
[–]dvb05 at Reddit
We already know the pair of them (Koucerek and Vogel) are culpable lowlifes who tried in earnest to cover their trail and were found out, this was not going to go away and desperate men do desperate things.
There are multiple ways they along with other key figures could have been involved in an unthinkable crime, the unknown would just be how involved they were but when it comes to crime those that know the system certainly have a potential in knowing how to stitch someone up better than anyone else ever could.
When it all boils down to it, who had more of a motive, Steven Avery who was plodding on as a free man keeping busy at the salvage yard, gaining a reputation in the media and a becoming a poster boy for the innocence project.
The guy sat in on depositions and was very close to a gaining a potential multi-million civil lawsuit sum against a county sheriff's department who despised him and no doubt his family. The Avery family would have been set up for life and could have put their feet up with that sort of financial clout. MCSD were happy to arrest him back in 1985 on someone's hunch (JD) and a traced mugshot from (GK). They ignored his alibi's and other suspects and were happy to see him canned up for 32 fucking years - unthinkable, so do I think people connected to that same shower of morally bankrupt slugs are capable of making sure the Avery problem goes away for good, damn straight, as even though KP alluded to the "it would be easier just to kill him notion" (what a comment from a police officer) the civil suit would have remained.
Those who lean heavily on the Avery is guilty notion for what ever reason refuse to accept the fact that Avery had no reason to act out in this way. He had met Teresa Halbach many times before and never laid a hand on her.
She was not afraid of him or she would have took company along with her or not bothered showing, to me it makes more sense something happened from the outside and was later altered to pin it on him for 36 or more million reasons and former officials of MCSD were looking at ramifications of financial & reputable ruin with even a potential of prison sentences.
That should matter if folk want to be objective.
[–]Wkdgood[S] 7 points 1 day ago*
ReplyDeleteI'll go first: I believe the actual burn site is located in one of the nearby forests at Zander Road and Jambo Creek Road because of Paul Metz (PM) who on November 1st 2005 reported a "whoosh" sound and horrid smell in the air that bothered his cattle so much that they broke through fences trying to get away from it, refer to page 289, 294 & 295 of Calumet Report. Paul Metz's property is located on West Zander Road on the South side, just West of Jambo Creek Road, which is very very close to 3302 W Zander Rd. PM had reported the smell on Nov 1st 2005 which is 2 days before TH was reported missing, he had reported his concerns to both the Wisconsin Public Service Corporation (WPS) and the nearby nuclear plant because he thought it could be from an electrical fire, which it wasn't reported to be and wasn't investigated further. This could be connected to the infamous 3302 Zander Road sign found on Steven's desk, and a possible early attempt at framing Steven by linking him to potentially the actual burn site? But then LE realized that the quary would be a more convenient burn site for Steven... then after that they realized he had a fire pit, which is even more convenient...
[–]JLWhitaker 3 points 23 hours ago
I'm off the Zander road connection re the sign. That's like saying something on Highway 147 is relevant to the murder. It's a road with a name. I reckon it's just coincidence.
But what I would like to ask Steven is why he does have that address on a for sale sign along with TH's phone number. It's just odd.
[–]Ductit 7 points 23 hours ago
What if I told you GZ was awarded a nearly $100,000 judgement in a lawsuit against one of the Avery's neighbors in 2000/2001 that lived on 147? GZ would then have criminal fraud charges filed against that person in 2003, and that person plead no contest with the agreement to pay back GZ by selling his property (that person would also be sued by several companies in 01 and 02 with nearly $200,000 more awarded to those companies). That person would later sell the property, and the next owner would find himself being sued by GZ as well. Then, the next activity is the original debtor and GZ agreeing that the debt was "fulfilled" in December of 2005. What if this farm property was across the street from Krueger road where someone claimed to see THs unlit car parked, and was about a one half mile walk through a field from SAs trailer?
[–]JLWhitaker 4 points 23 hours ago
Wow. Is there any info in your research what the lawsuit was about? What grounds did GZ have for continually suing different people?
[–]Ductit 9 points 23 hours ago
The criminal fraud charges were related to why GZ was awarded the original judgement. Presumably the person living there defrauded GZ somehow. Based on the other lawsuits that followed (GZs started it all...) there may have been others that were defrauded.
Additionally, the account number issued to GZ by AutoTrader is the next sequential account number after Craig Sipple. But Sipple is listed as a phone in (he called) and GZ is listed as a telemarketer (someone else gave AT his info), I think it's pretty obvious who that someone must be. Then Sipple/schmitz reschedule their appt from Friday to Monday, I wonder why.
[–]Ductit 3 points 11 hours ago*
GZs appointment wasnt confirmed until the 31st right? that is what we are told anyways. SA does not call in to make an appointment till the morning of the 31st at 8am. Who confirmed this GZ appt on the 31st? was it confirmed after TH calls Sipple?
They managed to "straddle" the SA appt. Who knows how many times they rescheduled before that...
CONTINUED...
[–]no_mixed_liquor 3 points 12 hours ago
ReplyDeleteThe AT documents have really been bothering me lately. I also noticed the sequential account numbers, which seems impossible given how the appointments were made.
The other question I have is, if TH only worked the Manitowoc area on Mondays, as was testified, why was there a Sippel appointment on the 10/29 lead sheet (a day she worked Green Bay only, as testified to and as shown by the Daniel M listing)? It looks like TH underlined the address and wrote that it was rescheduled for Monday 10/31. Did she reschedule it herself because she knew she wouldn't be in the area until Monday? Who put it on her lead sheet to begin with if it wasn't a day she was in the area?
[–]Ductit 3 points 11 hours ago
it is impossible, or at least, so improbable so as to be impossible.
i would love to know who put it there, as Buting noted when Pliska was on the stand, he couldnt even read half the text on that sheet because the quality was so bad of that copy.
there seems to be a lot of "bad copying" involved with the exhibits
[–]no_mixed_liquor 3 points 9 hours ago
Lots of bad copying in important places too. Yet the 10/31 GZ lead sheet is relatively clear.
I also find it interesting that in Wiegert's report (Exhibit 216), he states Angela S. from AT gave Lemieux the names of TH's appointments and, "Cpl. LEMIEUX gave me the names of CRAIG SIPPEL, B. JANDA and GEORGE ZIPPERER as people that TERESA was to meet with on Monday". 'Craig Sippel' and 'B. Janda' are exactly how the account names read. However, GZ's account name incorrectly says 'George Zipper'. How did the name get corrected between AT's system and Wiegert's report? 'B. Janda' was not changed to 'Barb Janda' and it's not as if the lead sheet just truncated GZ's name for printing purposes because other lead sheets show longer names.
[–]Ductit 4 points 8 hours ago
There are alot of Zipperers in the manitowoc area, so i dont know if that in itself is all that suspicious.
The thing is, AT puts in whatever name is given to them. So if it was Jason Zip selling a car, and GZ says he never talked to them prior to the 31st, then how did they have his name on the sheet?
And you are dead on about the mispelling of zipperer. This is pretty "out there" ill admit, but think back to GZ talking to the police and telling them he spelled his name "ZIZORE". Does GZ not pronounce the last "er" symbol when he speaks his name?
[–]iolouthief 4 points 22 hours ago
It's likely her bones were never found on the property and instead the body cremated in a professional crematorium.
[–]liftsheavy 4 points 20 hours ago
Sippel funeral home. Cremation.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/4rlve5/location_of_burn_site_your_thoughts/
West Twin River Bridge and the Isolated Cabin
ReplyDeleteAwhile back I posted a link and theory about the turkey hunters call to dispatch referring to a sighting of a man in waders below the west twin river bridge either on or before November 3rd. https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/43mr47/hunterwitness_call_to_dispatch/
The hunters also described an either black or dark green truck parked below on the trails. http://imgur.com/nKIbb7B
These trails lead to an isolated cabin within walking distance of the sighting. This cabin had a very large cooker as you can see in this photo http://imgur.com/Bp4Xbdc
That cabin has since been renovated and the cooker removed. http://imgur.com/TdZrLtR
The cooker looks like a livestock incinerator.
Just found this very interesting and wanted to share.
And near Maribel Caves is where Colborn went to collect evidence that the searchers had found. Still don't know what it was he collected. https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/475b7w/colburn_testimony_what_evidence_did_he_collect_at/
Zander Rd., which is not far from the cabin...maybe within 3 miles...just guessing the mileage.
I actually suspect the person seen by the hunters as the murderer.
I agree.
Local chatter has it that more than a few saw her vehicle at the bridge.
I believe she pulled off on the lane at the end of the bridge to make a call or fidget with her phone and she was approached and things got out of hand or she was ambushed by a passerby "hunter" and taken to the cabin.
The river was indeed a "cleanse".
I saw this earlier and see that you have mentioned either a green or black truck. (Which I had thought mainly referenced a green truck.) This is a thread about the call to dispatch regarding the tags. In it a poster mentions they are talking about a "black dodge" that left the property around the time they find the RAV4. Just thought it was interesting, and not to counter a green truck but I just saw a reference to a black truck. https://redd.it/4ammfb
Who's license plate was called in when Teresa's RAV4 was found at the Avery property? self.MakingaMurderer
Not sure who is talking to dispatch but the call starts with them asking to look into when Dave Remiker was first on scene... dispatch then says "When the tags were found?". Whoever is talking to dispatch says "yeah". Then dispatch continues to tell them that the file was re-opened at 10:50, the tags were given at 10:56 and the rav4 was reported found at 10:58. Dispatch gives the tag number BL 38152. But why are they talking about the tags being found if they weren't on the vehicle and weren't actually found until some time later? If not Teresa's plate number then who's was it? I can't think of a reason to call in anyone else's plates. Can anyone explain to me what I'm missing here?? Call starts at 28:29. http://stevenaverycase.com/phone-calls-between-investigators#sthash.Wct0zQDv.zrXznlyR.dpbs
IIRC, they were referring to a truck that left the property before they started logging incoming/outgoing.
Correct. The caller called dispatch to see what time he had called those tags in because shortly after is when he arrived on scene. He just wanted to know what time those tags were called so that they know what time he arrived to the Avery property since he had called the plates in a few minutes prior.
1984 Black Dodge
Owner/Model not listed. Plates not eligible for renewal.
I made that post and reading this thread I thought of the black truck too. They had their plate number, I wonder who it was listed to.
Also interesting to note GZ has a parcel ownership close by just off the Devils River Trail(name).
I remember hearing this in the call log and the man mentioned someone in the water with waders, a dark-coloured truck and "the first driveway past the bridge" - which lead right to the cabin.
From what I understand it's vacant most of the time. Kind of a seasonal thing and have read that it's rented out at times.
Serial case (2000) said incoming data ping was not reliable for location. It has to be an outgoing ping. Am I wrong on that, and does it apply to 2005? It was an incoming ping at 2:41?.
ReplyDeleteThere's a difference between the tower being in Whitelaw and teresa being in Whitelaw.. these gsm towers can have a range of up to 20 miles. She doesn't have to get in Whitelaw to be picked up by the tower, the tower has a range of between (depending on tower config) 6 and 12 miles.
If we check out SA's phone records you can see a single cell tower (and that cell tower's sector) handling ALL his calls on 31st, no Whitelaw tower butting in just because it can happen. It depends on which of the three tower panels the ping was from. If it's a panel facing toward Avery's then it doesn't necessarily mean much. If it pinged one of the other two panels then it means the phone made it a good distance away from Avery's.
Apparently handle calls like they should), if the tower 21923 covers the Avery salvage yard then her cell phone switching to 21921 (different sector of the same tower that handles the Avery salvage yard) and then to 21101, which is apparently Whitelaw tower, would greatly implicate movement on TH's part. How far away she got is anyone's guess. But if we assume nothing out of the ordinary happened and that is the Whitelaw's tower "north" sector she got at least slightly over half way from the 2192x tower (where ever that is) and the Whitelaw tower.
I also personally believe there is enough reason to assume she was with her phone when she pinged that tower. She was on the phone at 2:27 for 5 minutes which means she ended the conversation at 2:32. Her phone goes CNFA at 2:41 which means either she or the perp removed the battery from the phone or directed the call to VM. Idk why people would assume someone would abduct/kill her, and then take her phone to white law, only to bring it back. Makes no sense. I have always believed she was lured to a secure and premeditated location during the 2:27 call. I also believe the perp or someone was stalking her and waiting for her to leave the Avery residence so that they can make sure they have eyes on her and also make sure SA is "the last to see her".
Why he would lock and disable the vehicle thereby ensuring both the RAV4 and the evidence inside remain in the salvage yard? And why would he hide her key ring, garage door opener, purse and its contents in some unknown location but dump the camera, cell phone and PDA in his own burn barrel? I also cannot explain how 43 bone fragments, most the size of a thumbnail, would end up on top and around the black charred tire material covering the burnpit. Eisenberg: "I believe if -- if you filled or put those fragments into a two-liter bottle, about 40 to -- 40 percent of that bottle would be filled." So total volume of bone fragments, 3.4 cups. That is a very small portion of a skeleton.
Interesting thing about those personal belongings is the fact that what was found in burn barrel is electronics. Two points here: (1) those are easiest to plant / reproduce in comparison to purse for example, would be easiest to simply buy and plant them (2) killer (SA or somebody else) might think those need to be carefully destroyed since might produce signal, be traced etc.
The following is an excerpt of Brendan's interrogation on March 1, 2006, after his false confession. It starts around page 670 of the CASO file.
ReplyDelete(door opens and closes)
BARB JANDA: Whv didn't vou tell me? Huh?
FASSBENDER: Barbara give me your coffee, it's in your hands right now.
BARB JANDA: Huh? Did he make you do it? (Brendan nods "yes") I woulda walked out. That's what I woulda did. (crying during pause) Why didn't you just tell 'em, no? Huh?
BRENDAN: I don't know.
BARB JANDA: You knew it was wrong, right? (Brendan nods "yes") (pause) Do you know you can't come home? Do you know where you're going? (pause)
BRENDAN: How long is it though?
BARB JANDA: I don't know. I do not know. (pause) Do I have ta get some him an attorney, or will they do it for me?
FASSBENDER: The court will assign one for him or the state will pay for his attorney if he can't pay for it, but obviously you have a right at any time to try and get him one or get him one.
BARB JANDA: I tried for a public defender not too long ago and I couldn't get cuzl've got a house.
FASSBENDER: Well there's different, different ways that they determine you know based on, on what you've been arrested for and stuff like that there's different levels of, of money that you need, you need they, they will determine and I don't know what that is or how they determine that. (pause)
BARB JANDA: Are you gonna be OK, are you sure? Huh. Look at me. Why didn't you tell me? Stuff like that is not no secret. I don't care if he told you if he said ta keep it a secret, it's still not a secret. I don't keep secrets from yous. Do I? Don't worry about my belly, I haven't eaten in two days.
FASSBENDER: I didn't even hear it. Did you want a sandwich, Barb?
BARB JANDA: No.
FASSBENDER: We have some here.
BARB JANDA: No. I'd probably just throw it up anyhow. Am I gonna be able ta see him? Later on after he gets where he's gotta go?
FASSBENDER: I don't know ah on their policies and when they allow visitation and stuff like that. We can check with Mark, he's gonna know Sheboygan's polices or whatever. With, with juveniles there's probably a good chance but I just don't wanna say right now.
FASSBENDER ON THE PHONE: Hello, Tom here. Good how are you?
BARB JANDA: Why.
BRENDAN:
BARB JANDA: Huh?
FASSBENDER ON THE PHONE: It's on for tomorrow?
BARB JANDA: What?
BRENDAN:
BARB JANDA: I said why?
FASSBENDER ON THE PHONE: OK.
CONTINUED...
BARB JANDA: mh huh. What did he do to you to make you do it?
ReplyDeleteBRENDAN: Nothin'
BARB JANDA: Did he force you to do it? (Brendan shakes head..no)
FASSBENDER ON THE PHONE: All right if, if we go in tomorrow and I think we need someone, I'll call you. All right?
BARB JANDA: mh huh.
FASSBENDER ON THE PHONE: All right, thanks. Bye.
BRENDAN:
BARB JANDA: mh.
BRENDAN: You don't want to.
BARB JANDA: What?
BRENDAN: I didn't want to.
BARB JANDA: Ohh. (door opens and closes) Are you regrettin' it now? (pause) You had a whole life ahead of you Brendan. Just because he's so demanding, doesn't mean you gotta do the stuff he says. Right?
BRENDAN: Where am I going?
BARB JANDA: Where do you think you're going?
BRENDAN: I don't know?
BARB JANDA: You're goin' to juvie, that's where you're going, to a juvie jail. About 45 minutes away.
BRENDAN: Yeh but I gotta question?
BARB JANDA: What's that?
BRENDAN: What'd happen if he says something, his story's different? Wh-he says he, he admits to doing it?
BARB JANDA: What do you mean?
BRENDAN: Like if his story's like different, like I never did nothin, or somethin'.
BARB JANDA: Did you? Huh?
BRENDAN: Not really.
BARB JANDA: What do you mean not really?
BRENDAN: They got to my head.
BARB JANDA: Huh?
BRENDAN: ....say anything.
BARB JANDA: What do you mean by that? (pause) What do you mean by that Brendan? (pause) I have a question for yous two. Is there any way that I can talk to him. Not him, the other one.
WIEGERT: As in Steve you mean?
BARB JANDA: Yes.
WIEGERT: The only way we can have you talk to him is if he calls you or if it's, you know, you go there for visiting.
BARB JANDA: I won't go there and visit.
WIEGERT: OK. That's the only way. I-I have no other way of, you know, I-I can't hook you up to him or anything like that. I'm not allowed to do that. You, you can do what you want or if you go there for visiting, you know that's up to you.
CONTINUED...
BARB JANDA: Were you pressuring hirn?
ReplyDeleteWIEGERT: Who are you talking about?
BARB JANDA: Him.
WIEGERT: What do you mean, pressuring him?
BARB JANDA: In talking to him.
WIEGERT: No we told him we needed to know the truth. We've been doing this job a long time Barb and we can tell when people aren't telling the truth. And, in my opinion, he'd never be able to live with himself if he didn't tell somebody. There's no wayhe could've live with that. Nobody could live with that. I think Brendan knows that.
WIEGERT: Brendan, you need to use the bathroom or anything? (Brendan shakes head "no")
BARB JANDA: When are you going out to my house then?
WIEGERT: As soon as we can leave here, we'll go out there. I don't think we're gonna bring Brendan out there though. I-I just don't think that's a good idea. I don't think he needs to be exposed to that or be out there anymore. (door opens and closes) It's not gonna do him any good.
BARB JANDA: So what you're sayin' is if, when he gets out, it wouldn't be a good idea for him to be there, at all.
WIEGERT: I-You know, I can't tell you where for you guys to live, but what do you think? Do you think it's a good idea for him to next where this stuff occurred?
BARB JANDA: I-I don't wanna be there, but I can't afford another place.
WIEGERT: I know.
BARB JANDA: I mean that's $80,000 I owe yet.
WIEGERT: I understand.
WIEGERT: It's a shitty, shitty spot to be in.
BARB JANDA: And nobody's gonna buy it.
WIEGERT: You're in a bad spot an-and I wish I had some answers for you. If there's somethin' I can do to help ya, I certainly will. (pause) Maybe you should look into movin' the house.
BARB JANDA: I can't afford it.
WIEGERT: We-who knows, you don't even know what it'll cost, depends on where you move it.
BARB JANDA: Quite a bit. (pause) An extra $16,000 for another basement. (pause) So what did you all help him with? Can I ask? Will you tell me? Brendan? Did you do it willingly? Huh? (Brendan shakes head "no") ( pause) He did tell me one time, Steven, he told me that probably one or two of my kids would not graduate.
CONTINUED...
WIEGERT: Steven told you that?
ReplyDeleteBARB JANDA: Yeah. This was before this all even happened. So he must have had it all planned.
WIEGERT: That's very possible, very possible. (pause)
BARB JANDA: You don't know how much hatred I got right now.
WIEGERT: You're right, I don't. I can only imagine. I-I can't even put myself in your shoes Barb, I can't.
BARB JANDA: My oldest son is gonna flip. I can't even tell him. I can't.
WIEGERT: I think you better because
BARB JANDA: I can't. he's on a heart monitor now.
WIEGERT: This is gonna be on the media tonight.
BARB JANDA: Oh god.
WIEGERT: There's no way to stop it.
BARB JANDA: He's not gonna be on, is he?
WIEGERT: Brendan?
BARB JANDA: Yeah.
WIEGERT: No.
BARB JANDA: Well they can't anyhow.
WIEGERT: No, he's not gonna be on.
"Dassey’s mother, Barbara Janda, agreed to the second interview but declined the offer to accompany Dassey. On March 1, again with Janda’s permission, officers retrieved Dassey from school for a videotaped interview."
ReplyDeletehttps://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/4bgxm8/dasseys_mother_barbara_janda_agreed_to_the_second/
If a lawyer was there, the false confession would not have occurred. After Brendan answered some question, the lawyer would not have allowed the investigators to badger (no pun) him into giving them the answer they were seeking. The lawyer would say, "He already answered that question." If they continually kept trying to bait Brendan into giving the specific answer the investigators were hoping to get, the lawyer would have said, "This interview is over. These guys have no interest in what you know, Brendan. They are only interested in creating false statements from you. Let's get you back to 6th period Brendan, you've got a project due." vHe wasn't arrested. He was being interviewed because he was a witness, not a suspect. The interrogators were trying to coerce false testimony, they got a false confession instead. They weren't even expecting that. The lawyer would have billed them for an hour to sit with him in that interview, and Brendan would have gone back to class.
We're talking about Brendan having a privately hired lawyer to sit with him during his interviews, before he made any false confession. Kachinsky was a public defender appointed after the confession and arrest. His lawyer was cooperating with the police to get a confession out of him.
His trial lawyers screwed him as well during closing arguments when they conceded that Brendan was at the fire and probably saw a body, contradicting Brendan's own testimony and without his consent.
It would be the last thing the jury would hear from the defence, and if anyone of them had any doubts about his confession, they would have effectively been removed with that statement.
It's no wonder they lost a case that consisted of no physical evidence, no less than nine solid alibi witnesses, and a crime for which his uncle had already been found guilty of committing while Brendan was at school. They were completely incompetent, that case should never have made it to trial.
Tadych introduced the idea of a fire on his 2nd interview. However his 1st recollection, there's no fire. Blaine didn't see a fire either that night on his return. Brendan was convicted simply on Tadych's statement of a bonfire.
Barb went through Steven's classic police corruption rape case? She's better educated than most about law enforcement corruption by 2005! She went to the motel with them Factbenders. The simple fact that we cannot see any transcripts of Barb is interesting.
Brendan was probably told, off the record that Steven was trying to implicate him, even if it's not true. That's how these Factbenders get people to confess to anything, especially a disabled child.
She absolutely could not have failed her own son worse. This poor kid had not one adult in his corner during this time. As a parent how she allowed this to happen is reprehensible. It truly breaks my heart that when this poor kid just needed 1 adult to step up and be his advocate all of them failed him miserably. Just Shameful.
It has always bothered me as to WHY she continued to allow LE to talk to Brendan knowing he couldn't fend for himself. Did they hold the drug charges over her and threaten her with prosecution if she didn't allow it? Don't say LE won't do it because they will.
She was very much available for interviews and motel visits too. Pizza and all. Even if she couldn't help him, with all Steven's previous experience with police corruption, she should have insisted on a lawyer.
CONTINUED...
In the doc when Wiegert says she declined to attend, her mouth drops open in the gallery. Later, outside, she tells the camera that wasn't true -she had wanted to attend, and they told her she couldn't. Legally, in WI, once a child is 16, the parents can be barred from participating. And while he should have at least had a court appointed lawyer, it was up to HIM to invoke that right... and right which a lot of adults don't really understand. Particularly ones with low IQs and a serious problem with any form of confrontation or self-assertion.
ReplyDelete"Brendan’s March 1 confession was the culmination of four rounds of police questioning that occurred over a period of fewer than 48 hours." - Laura Nirider.
The fact is the parents failed this kid, the lawyer failed this kid, the school failed this kid and the investigator's preyed on this kid like vultures. He didn't have a prayer in the world.
She was taken into custody for marijuana possession at 2am on Nov 6, 2005. [https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/45bqq7/november_5_2005_timeline/?sort=old]
Barb Janda was arrested on 11/5 sometime before the car was found based on the dispatch recordings. It would be great to include that on the timeline as I wonder if she was arrested so that no one would be on the Avery property - perfect opportunity to plant the RAV 4 -- Chuck, SA, Brendan, Dolores were all on their way to Crivitz.
I don't have an exact time but based on the order of the dispatch calls, they already had her in custody when the car was found. Thank you for putting the timelines together. Very helpful.
I believe she was taken into custody on the 5th because you can hear information about it on the dispatch recording just after the RAV was found -- something like "You can release Barb Janda now."
Check CASO file where Barb is with Brendan after his confession and says she was denied a public defender because she owned a home. She must be referring to her marijuana arrest on November 6, 2005. Did she cooperate with the State because she couldn't afford a lawyer?
Barb Janda Tadych said that Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey just said what the prosecution team told them to say. It's all rubbish that better fit the State's theory.
ReplyDeleteBarb's Documented Contact with Law Enforcement:
November 5, 2005 - At 5 p.m. Barb brings Blaine to Cedar Ridge restaurant to be questioned by DCI agent Skorlinksi and detective Baldwin. Report is not available online.
November 6, 2005 - At 2 a.m. Barb is arrested for possession of marijuana.
November 7, 2005 - DCI Skorlinski and CASO's Baldwin: Baldwin notes in her report that Barb has given them permission to question Blaine.
November 9, 2005 - DCI Kapitany interviews Barb while CASO's Tyson drives her to get fingerprinted, etc.: DCI report by Kapitany was not entered into evidence because Barb didn't testify, Scott did.
November 14, 2005 - DCI Skorlinski and CASO's Baldwin interview Barb: Baldwin notes prior contact with Barb but doesn't reference a report. CASO file, page 264.
February 27, 2006 - DCI agent Fassbender interviews Barb while Wiegert interrogates Brendan. Wiegert wrote that Barb declined to sit in the interview room while Brendan was being questioned. After the interrogation, they bring Barb and Brendan to Fox Hills Resort to spend the night for their safety. "A room was secured at the Fox Hills Resort for Barbara and Brendan until interviews could be completed by the investigators." Apparently Brendan was questioned again around 10 p.m. without his mother present, and the interview was not recorded.
March 1, 2006 - Barb gives Fassbender and Wiegert permission to question Brendan again. Barb does not sit in on the interrogation because F&W tell her, according to Barb, that the story he is about to tell will be gruesome. How would they know what he was going to tell them would be gruesome unless they fed him the story to tell on February 27 when they interrogated him off at 10 p.m. without recording it? On March 1st, they coerce a false confession from Brendan.
At 2 a.m. on November 6, 2005, less than a day after Pam Sturm found the RAV4 in Avery Salvage Yard and less than a day after police took control of the property, Barb Janda was taken into custody on a marijuana possession charge. From that point forward, Barb was at the disposal of law enforcement to make use of as they chose. [On February 8, 2006, she pleaded guilty, no contest, and the case was dismissed on the prosecutor's motion. The court official was Jerome Fox.]
https://www.wicourts.gov/ca/opinion/DisplayDocument.html?content=html&seqNo=92079
"Dassey’s mother, Barbara Janda, agreed to the second interview but declined the offer to accompany Dassey. On March 1, again with Janda’s permission, officers retrieved Dassey from school for a videotaped interview."
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/4bgxm8/dasseys_mother_barbara_janda_agreed_to_the_second/
Hey I'm gonna have one last shot at gettin' a reply and if I don't I'll take the hint, promise. What if you're right about an organized, possible serial killer crime and what if that killer was a little closer to home? Seven women and one man - Gordon Schneider - implicate CA. He gives testimony that Teresa Halbach looks similar to another missing girl, Laurie Denise and CA's former girlfriend, Kathy Katie's (CASIO page 390). What if the key was found in another trailer on the night of Nov 5, the night both Steve and Chuck's trailers were searched? Did they need to speak to him in private? Why was CA so well informed? Were the police using doublespeak? Why were the scratches and cuts on CA not investigated, even though they were photographed by Sgt. Tyson on Nov 9? Why did Chuck drive the flatbed back from Crivitz , sometime after Nov 4 and before Nov 6, for the police? Why did police tell CA they believed SA opened the road from the Radandt gravel pit... so that he could drive Ms. Halbach's car to the spot it was found? (2009 Motion for retrial). Why was CA's van 'flagged off? (Nov 9 conversation on way for DNA test, interviewed under caution). Why did CA ask KK for 397 dollars for transport services? (KK emails). So many questions... so few answers. CHECKADUHID? DAHIDECHUCK?
ReplyDeleteHate auto correct... meant to read Laurie Depies and Kathy Katie's.
ReplyDeleteKathy Kalies (third attempt).
ReplyDeleteHey Jane, I've been struggling with some computer issues and haven't checked the comment log for a while. Plus, I had this blog set to allow posting of all comments without my approval, which meant I wasn't notified when new comments were posted. Because of this, I didn't see your previous comments until now. And, unfortuneatly, Blogger doesn't tell me on which posts the comments were posted, which means I can only see the abbreviated comment that is in the queue. Can you point me to the blog posts where you posted your other comments so I can read the comments in their entirity? I can't find them because Blogger doesn't link to the actual post when I view the abbreviated comment in the queue. It is very frustrating!
DeleteI just now changed the settings for this blog so that, from now on, all comments go into moderation and have to be approved by me before posting. This will allow me to read all comments when they are first posted, and it means I won't miss any from now on.
You ask some insightful questions. I haven't read or listened to Chuck Avery's interviews, and I haven't read the KK emails regarding Chuck. Can you give me links to the audio of the interviews and to KK's emails? I'll try to read the CASO reports regarding Chuck in the next day or two, and I'll let you know what I think.
Hey Jane, I found your three posts from November 27, 28 and 29th at this link:
Deletehttp://georgezipperer.blogspot.com/2016/10/was-teresa-halbachs-last-stop-hustle.html
I will have some free time tomorrow to look into your questions, and I will get back to you in the next few days.
Hey Magiclougie - thank you - I hope I wasn't too pushy - I've been spending way too much time on this stuff and I'm getting a little too consumed - so I'm back to real life from tomorrow! The link for KK's emails (I think it's actually a letter) is: www.stevenaverycase.org/miscellaneous-records
ReplyDeleteThe interview with Chuck Avery is on Youtube and it's www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMbZonOdKoM but if you just search Charles Avery November 9 interview it's easy to find.
I don't want to start making wild accusations because I think that's silly but I do think CA was way too cosy with the police and the absence of any even cursory investigation into him is very chilling. As I said before, Gordon Shneider (CASO page 390) links him to at least one other suspicious disappearance - a girl called Laurie Depies who lived close to CA.He also suggests CA planted the blood -now this may all be viscious rumour but it was never investigated. Interestingly,he makes the Bundy conection because he states Teresa, Kathy and Laurie all had similar hair. Bundy chose his victims because of their hair. Anyway, I need to get back to reality now because even my dog is starting to look disapprovingly at me when I get the laptop out!
Thanks for the links Jane! I'll check them out this weekend or early next week and get back to you... LOL about your dog giving you the stink eye. My cat will step right onto my laptop keyboard to get my attention.
ReplyDeleteP.S. Regarding the location of Maribel Caves, there is a satellite image at the link below that shows the location of the caves, which are just west of the Richard J Drum Memorial Forest:
Deletehttps://georgezipperer.blogspot.com/2016/01/edward-wayne-edwards-life-timeline-of.html
The image is below the paragraph:
"Just southwest of the West Twin River bridge on highway 147 in Maribel there is a hunting cabin with a cooker at 7507-7549 W. Main Street (image below). The cooker is used to cook wild game, such as deer and bear, at high temperatures. The secluded cabin with the cooker is only 200 meters south of the bridge and is probably less than a five-minute walk."
Also, I added a new image to the link above that marks the locations of Metz's farm on Zander Road and 3302 West Zander Road.
The image is below the paragraph:
"Metz's farm at the corner of West Zander Road and Jambo Creek Road is slightly east of 3302 West Zander Road (there are two 40-acre, wooded vacant parcels separating Metz's farm from 3302 West Zander Road). In the image below, Metz's farm at 2530 West Zander Road (parcel number 006-002-012-000.00) is marked on the right with a large, red rectangular-shaped box, and 3302 West Zander Road (parcel number 006-003-015-001.00) is marked on the left with a red box."
Thanks Magiclougie I've looked at the map and this is consistent with Steven's testimony about which way she went and also Kathleen Zellner's assertion about where her phone was. I'm leaning towards a theory that she was followed and this would be consistent with sightings of the car and potential fire reported by both Metz and two other witnesses. Charles Avery's predatory behaviour includes stalking (allegedly) and I would like to know his movements, he did make statements according to the November 9 interview but they are missing from the public records. I'd also like to see the photographs of his cuts and scratches, documented November 9.I also think the framing could have been facilitated by the police but CA had ample motive opportunity (as did many others). KZ's comment today is interesting, I wonder if this means someone else planted the blood? One last thought, CA told SA that he saw headlights on the night he went to Crivitz with Brendan but why didn't he investigate this himself, rather than simply relaying this information to Steven? I find this suspicious and very out of character from a man who always seems so protective of his empire. You might be interested to look at the case of Laurie Depies - Schneider is right about the similar hairstyles. The man who confessed (thought to be a false confession by many) stated he lured her away from her car with an album of photos of classic cars. As someone on Reddit said, this is a very precise detail but maybe she did have an interest in classic cars and this was designed to sound credible to her friends and family, for that reason it is curious. You know where I'm going with that, don't you? I'll keep checking your site for updates because it is my favorite but I'm done sleuthin' for a while coz it's too easy to get sucked in and hopefully, all will be revealed soon. Bye for now, Jane.
ReplyDeleteHey Jane,
DeleteI read the email from KK to CA about wanting to be reimbursed for transport services. I think this might be referring to the loader that was seized in Crivitz and the cost to CA when the property was released. Maybe they charged him for storage when he didn't pick it up right away or they charged him when they brought it back to him, but I'm only guessing. They had no reason to seize it, and it certainly hindered his ability to do business while it was in the possession of LE.
I watched the first 23 minutes of CA's Nov 9th interview. Witnesses said a black van was at Krueger Road and Twin Bridge Road for three consecutive days early in the week TH went missing but was always gone in the evenings. I don't think this black van is CA's because I can't fathom why he would park it there and how he would have walked to and from ASY unnoticed for three days. Plus, he lived at the salvage yard and ran the daily operation, so his absence would have been noticed.
I read that on May 17, 2011 Larry DeWayne Hall confessed to Menasha, Wisc. police that he kidnapped and killed Laurie Depies in August 1992. "Hall is currently serving a life sentence in a North Carolina prison for the kidnapping of an Illinois girl who disappeared a year after Depies. He was never charged with murder because the girl's remains were never found. Hall made the confession in the Depies case in November."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wisconsin-cold-case-cracked-inmate-confesses-laurie-depies/story?id=13622809
But that's a far as I got with my search. I'll have to read up on the details of the case.
I know that Wendy Baldwin's reports were full of gossip about the Averys, but I didn't put much weight on them as suspects because Avery wrote this year that none of his family members were involved in the crime. He thought otherwise in 2009 when he filed one of his motions, and his beliefs were based on the gossip in the CASO reports. Since Zellner signed on as his attorney, he has changed his opinion that members of his family were valid suspects. I don't think any of them committed the crime, but they certainly are angels. But your observations about CA are very compelling!
I agree with the theory that TH was followed.
I've been doing some research today on the history of Avery's blood vial, etc. because of Zellner's latest tweet. I might publish a blog post about it in the near future.
In the meantime, I'll try to do a better job of checking for new comments... thank you for always keeping me thinking!
Thanks Magiclougie.I am trying to keep an open mind but I still think that there was a blind spot regarding CA and he's definitely someone who I think warranted being a potential suspect and he never was. I read day 5 of the trial transcript yesterday and Brutus made a hit on CA's front door but he was never taken into his trailer. On the same day a 10 minute cursory search of CA's trailer took place, followed by a two and a half hour search of Steven's trailer. I don't think KZ would reveal her hand yet, that's why I think RH and JR are probably complicit in the police's let's just call it push to charge Steven. I don't think the murderer's identity has been revealed yet. DJ Bradley Czech (another candidate for checkaduhid) is also someone who was never investigated - but then there are so many where would you begin? One thing my son said to me that I thought was interesting, if Colburn was looking at the car when he rang in the plates on the 3rd, doesn't that suggest that there was not a premeditated plan to frame because if that was the case, you would know where the car was, surely? I'm thinking there was an element of opportunism and the killer knew he would be able to get away with it. I look forward to your blog on the blood vial - hopefully, science will solve it! Interesting that she referred to experiments rather than tests...
ReplyDeleteHey Jane, I'm just now seeing your comment even though I've been trying to check regularly. Managing comments is very frustating with Blogger.
ReplyDeleteI didn't pick up on Brutus alerting on CA's front door and the cursory search. I'm going to have to look into this more. Thank you for this info!
I stopped working on a new blog about the blood vial because I got sidetracked working on the burn barrels. When you get a chance, check out that post, which originally was part of another post:
http://georgezipperer.blogspot.com/2016/09/three-55-gallon-burn-barrels-were.html
You wrote:
" if Colburn was looking at the car when he rang in the plates on the 3rd, doesn't that suggest that there was not a premeditated plan to frame because if that was the case, you would know where the car was, surely? I'm thinking there was an element of opportunism and the killer knew he would be able to get away with it."
Exactly!
Teresa Halbach's Day Planner Before She Printed It at 10:29 PM on Sunday, October 30th.
ReplyDeleteMonday, Oct 31
9 a.m. - 2 p.m. - Sheboygan Trader
Tuesday, Nov 01
10 a.m. - Call Lisa Josephs?
1 p.m. - St .mom.to.look
Wednesday, Nov 02
Scott Bloedorn's Birthday
8:30 a.m. - 9:30 a.m. - BLACKED OUT
Thursday, Nov 03
9 a.m. - 2 p.m. - Trader
1 p.m. - Road rash 869-2587
499-8996 2670 n. Packerland
Friday, Nov 04
Josh Wygralak's Birthday
Trader check
Saturday, Nov 05
Josephs fam?
9 a.m. - 10 a.m. - Trader
9 a.m. - 2 p.m. - Joyce show @ ramada
12 p.m. - 1 p.m. - Kyllen tegan ST
7 p.m. - 8 p.m. - Dani b day Los Banditos
Sunday, Nov 06
3 p.m. -4:15 p.m. - Packers home
Teresa Halbach's Penciled-in Schedule on Her Day Planner After She Printed It at 10:29 PM on Sunday, October
Monday, Oct 31
2:30 p.m. - get Sarah's stuff from Mom
4:30 p.m. - Biz paperwork
6 p.m. - Mom - Bday gift
7 p.m. - Call Denise
Call Dana
Bottom of schedule, no time:
Steve Sheboygan
Mon
4 ft large moving truck
920-254-6636
2 vehicles
Tuesday, Nov 01
12 p.m. - Denise ST noon
2:30 p.m. - Send Sarah Thank you/copy
Wednesday, Nov 02
nothing pencilled-in
Thursday, Nov 03
11:30 p.m. Dan Morrow
$39.95 pd
3030 Sonoran Ct.
Mustang
Friday, Nov 04
3:30 p.m. - Courtney's play
Saturday, Nov 05
nothing pencilled-in
Sunday, Nov 06
nothing pencilled-in
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Exhibit-45-Halbach-day-planner.pdf
August 30, 2005/early September is when Teresa ported her Verizon number to Cingular, and it seems like this is also when she terminated her land line.
ReplyDeleteWhy Teresa Had Her Computer Tied to Her Fax Machine (self.TickTockManitowoc)
submitted by seekingtruthforgood
I want to share a bit of context about why Teresa would utilize her computer for her fax machine (and possibly in lieu of the fax machine that she may have originally been given from Trader.) Wiegert and Remiker's recorded call confirms that her computer was tied to her fax machine.
Once higher quality color printers with scanners became affordable in the consumer/retail market, photographers switched to those printers to not only print nice, quality photos but to also scan film images into a clear digital format that was tied to his/her file/image management software (used for sizing, resolution, editing, sharing, storage, etc.) This eliminated having to mail or drop off proof sheets (she could then mail a flash drive with digital copies, load them online or share proof sheets by email.)
So, with her computer being tied to her printer/scanner, she was also probably scanning her lead sheets into her computer... I imagine her faxes may have also routed to her computer (I remember when the company I used to work for switched over to paperless faxing through our computers - it was early 2000's and it was a very big deal.) This is important because there may be a lot of data in that computer. We know that law enforcement removed the computer from her home on the 3rd; we also know from the Remiker/Wiegert call that it was taken back to her house the early morning of the 5th to create a test fax (although I question that because that same call is altered...)
Teresa did not need a land line to send faxes - she only needed access to the internet, which may have been installed via a hard line with an Ethernet connection to her computer. I'm not a techie, and I may be describing this incorrectly, but, I know I didn't have a landline during 2005 and yet I had the ability, via the internet, to receive and send faxes - although I usually just emailed my files.
I can think of two reasons for law enforcement to not pull the call logs:
They found out later that the line was disconnected, or,
The phone history established problems for the state's case with regards to the timeline on the 31st and/or men who were digging around in her phone records, prior to anyone being aware she was missing.
I am not able to find one follow up document or reference that establishes law enforcement actually reviewed and called people from her local landline. And, based on the long distance calls, which I believe were located on bill in her desk, the calls appear to have been made around or prior to early September. That is a huge gap in time, being that one would think the most important calls were those sent and received 50 days later, immediately following her disappearance.
I wonder what Zellner might find on that hard drive...
CONTINUED...
[–]seekingtruthforgood
ReplyDeleteI would have never thought this, until I realized that Auto Trader never called her cell phone until September 2005. So, we have calls but only for 2 months of her 1 year period of employment. In addition, in revisiting her long distance records, I was reminded of how RH knew BC's landline number - he didn't get that number from Teresa's cell records (not even the full cell records for 2005 have that number listed.) The call immediately following BC was Teresa to her own cell phone - that call was September 7. So, it appears the long distance bill is not current - those calls were made 50 days prior to her disappearance.
Also, LE never documents calling her home phone. Even though Scott B provided that as his number in CASO, Ryan never calls that number in his records.
Last, there is a report that ties her fax machine to her computer - it's documented at roughly 1:19 during the call between Remiker and Wiegert. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlyBVBJKTeM&t=98s
The clock is not in military time. If it were, her 9 pm faxes, as an example, would show as 21:00, not 9 pm. So, yep, something is way wrong with that fax. I would shit if it was really sent at 3:30, not 00:13.
They aren't 9pm faxes. It's 9am. Her fax is most certainly in military time because the fax that was sent at 'midnight' says 0:13. That is military time. This is how we know her faxes don't make sense and her fax had the wrong times programmed in.
Well, I just assumed she was faxing them back the same day, at the end of her day. They seem to have been faxed to her in the morning. She checks off her appointments that she completed that day, she dates it, which also looks like it's done on the same day, and then she faxes it back that night. That is why the times don't look like military times to me.
[–]DarthGatorMaid
The faxed lead sheet had the OLD number. Had it been from her PC/fax it would've said something other than this old number. It would've had a .mail extension or the landline it were connected to, not a previously programmed number... right? An actual machine though could've kept the preprogrammed number, or so I've read on here. I find a preprogrammed number difficult to follow myself but this is what the reports said and others on here have agreed with that.
[–]Newthingstobeseen
This is interesting about their call. I can't remember anyone making this point before: that they clearly state it is connected to her computer. I can't accept that they misspoke because he seems to clearly delineate what he is saying with some precision. It puts all previous posts in question in my mind about the specific fax and Green Bay number, unless someone can prove he misspoke.
TH, Sheboygan, fax from Auto Trader? (self.TickTockManitowoc)
ReplyDeletesubmitted by proudfootz
We can see from the day planner that TH planned to do AutoTrader work in Sheboygan on Monday November 31st. We know from affidavits that she took two calls while on the road (one about 11:30 AM and another about 12:45 PM). Wasn't there testimony from Angie about Dawn supposed to send a fax from AutoTrader to TH [just after 11 AM]? Is there any evidence this happened? Does this indicate TH may have returned to her home to pick up the fax that day?
[–]wineverybattle
Yes, that is what we have been told. That she left a message, she talked to Angela and told them to fax her the info for the Janda/Avery appt, since she would have time to do it. It sounded like her lunch was from 11 to Noon.
Did they do that and did she go home or was home to get it? I have no idea.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/7e8s45/why_teresa_had_her_computer_tied_to_her_fax/
[–]seekingtruthforgood[S] 5 points 14 hours ago
She worked for Auto Trader for a year... yet there is not one call to her cell phone until September and October 2005. I believe she cancelled her home phone, which explains why LE was working from an outdated long distance bill, and why Auto Trader started calling her cell phone during September.
Auto Trader (414/425 (prefix) Only started calling Teresa's cell as of September 2005. Teresa's last landline call to her cell's VM was September 7. (self.TickTockManitowoc)
ReplyDeletesubmitted by seekingtruthforgood
If you check Teresa's year 2005 history on her cell phone, you will notice that Auto Trader (at least from the 414 (area code) 425 (prefix) did not begin calling her cell phone until September 1, 2005. You will also notice that Teresa's last call to her cell phone voice mail from her land line was September 7, 2005.
Also, as we have all discussed, when law enforcement reported checking her long distance calls, they reported BC's number first (his landline, not his cell phone), followed by Teresa's cell number second, because, presumably, she had called her cell from her landline to check her voice mails. So, that puts those calls into early September. As another possibility, see *second to last comment below.
I also believe those calls are older because LE did not yet have a warrant for the home number or long distance calls (at least that I can find.) So, the calls may instead have been reflected on a bill in her files. A printed bill also explains why RH called Brad's landline, not his cell. If you look at Teresa's cell phone, there is no record, ever, of her calling Brad's land line, so RH didn't find his home number in her cell records.
Collectively, this information brings up the question about whether her home number had been disconnected by her. And, being that she was using her computer (she probably also had an all-in-one printer) to fax her transmissions to Auto Trader (described in the call between Remiker and Wiegert), did she get rid of an extra bill that she no longer needed?
Well... if that is the case, and we trust the 2005 records, Auto Trader has some problems they are going to have to explain about their contact with Teresa on Monday...
*As another possibility, if the last two calls dialed out from her home phone are to BC's landline and her cell, yet Brad's land line and her home number are not reflected in her cell phone history... well... that means her cell number and Brad's home number were called from her house after her cell phone was turned off.
I have not seen much about this, but know this group has covered just about everything - so, this may be out here already - if so, sorry for the redundancy.
CONTINUED...
[–]seekingtruthforgood
ReplyDeleteI had never really thought much but because 8 months of call history is not there on her cell, something definitely changed. My mind tells me she cancelled her home number and went to web based faxing that was supported by what may have been a new multifunctional printer/scanner.
Being LE never produced her land line records, we only have Scott B who gave cops that home number. But Ryan always called Scott's cell, not that home number, and Teresa called Scott's cell, and had not called her home number for 50+ days.... It's almost like that home number was a diversion.
Plus, why did Wiegert say her fax was tied to her computer, if it wasn't? They pulled her computer out of her house on the 3rd. Why did LE never pull her landline or long distance calls from after September 7?
That's what I thought too, but, I noticed Scott's cell number is not shown in CASO, and there is no record of Ryan calling that home number from his cell phone. So, I can't find any records that LE actually called that line.
If we believe SSpkmn, Zellner's witness, she was not at home when on tower 21112.
Also, being she had her computer tied to her fax machine, as Wiegert described in his call with Remiker, she could have been scanning her documents into her computer and then faxing through her computer. That, too, is interesting as it helps explain why LE was so quick to take her computer on the 3rd.
The fax machine being tied to her computer is confirmed during the 6+ minute call between Remiker and Wiegert. She may have taken a machine from Green Bay, but, if she wasn't running scans into her computer or sending her faxes to her computer, then it seems there was no reason for her computer to be connected to it.
I didn't have a phone line during 2005... I was plugged into Ethernet... did someone confirm that area didn't have that option?
She worked for Auto Trader for a year... yet there is not one call to her cell phone until September and October 2005. I believe she cancelled her home phone, which explains why LE was working from an outdated long distance bill, and why Auto Trader started calling her cell phone during September.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/7e7425/auto_trader_414425_prefix_only_started_calling/
[–]seekingtruthforgood
ReplyDeleteLE needs Teresa Halbach's home phone to be live in a bad way to cover up the "day planner making it home" issue -- they needed her to be home until 12:51 in order to place her at Avery's last.
Her being on a tower away from home causes a lot of problems for the state. And, both Angela and Dawn first denied talking to her during their interviews on the 3rd of November -- not sure how not only one, but two coworkers, forget their last conversation with a missing girl, but, oh ya, by trial, they both remembered that they mismembered... something is up... hopefully Zellner releases more information that explains this.
That alleged visit by Pagel and Dedering to Halbach's to test the fax that morning isn't logged. And, they already had her computer with them at Calumet (with the password.) Dedering and Pagel don't show up as being offsite for this in the CASO dispatch log at all that morning and supposedly Dedering also brought the computer to Grand Chute that morning. No one shows up there until later that morning, and at a time when officers are supposedly at Calumet (just prior to Pam calling.)
So something is just odd -- if they are at Calumet per CASO, how can they be at Halbach's, per the dispatch logs? And, if they are at Halbach's per CASO, why is that not reflected in the dispatch logs.
I'm still fact checking and researching this, as it's difficult to recall the various timelines, but, the CASO logs do not match the CASO report for the morning of the 5th.
Also, as I said in an earlier post, I'm not a techie, so really I am just trying to explore this possibility because I am having a tough time understanding why her employer of a year would just start calling her cell phone during the prior two months, and why during a recorded call between Remiker and Wigert, Wiegert would say her fax machine was hooked to her computer -- the call is pretty clear, and I'm not misunderstanding the call.
My computer runs all of my dashboards for my various devices via the devices software -- so my HP all-in-one settings are established by me from my computer, not my device... printers back then had the same software that was loaded onto the computer.
If she was faxing from her computer, if even through her machine or via the internet, her computer settings could be the location from which she set up the header. At least that's my read on this, but, I am not certain.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/7e8s45/why_teresa_had_her_computer_tied_to_her_fax/
[–]DarthGatorMaid
ReplyDeleteI know your trying to understand why AT only began calling in Sept 05 and maybe that is a lead of sorts but I think the MW call and fax info maybe confusing the lead.
I THINK you're convinced that she used her laptop for faxing and not the fax machine provided to her by AT? Because of the MW call?
ETA: for clarity, you're saying the CASO reports DON'T match up to the dispatch log, correct?
[–]seekingtruthforgood[S] 3 points 10 days ago
I want to clarify a few items because I a bit confused on your reply:
The dispatch logs show the car activity of the officers when out in the field.
Dedering is 817. He wasn’t at Halbachs, per the dispatch log, the early morning of the 5th.
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/CASO-Dispatch-Log-redacted.pdf
I didn’t say PDA (I’m confused how that ended up in the reply… I said her computer).
I believe she was sending faxes via the internet through her computer.
1. She used her scanner to send her lead sheets/documents to her computer, and
2. From her computer, via the web, she was able to send the document to AutoTrader's fax machine.
Her header said "Teresa" and her former fax number.
The effort to correct the header, whether it was her computer or her fax machine, would have been the same – she didn’t update her fax machine, so there’s no reason to believe she would have updated her computer header either.
She may have been using the internet and her computer to fax to AutoTrader for a while – it would have been way more efficient for her rather than manually faxing, which is essentially having to scan everything twice if she was scanning and saving her work documents for the ads on her computer.
I’m not referring to her mobile or her palm. I’m referring to her laptop that was at her house and which police took into custody on November 3. She didn't fax anything after that supposed midnight fax.
CONTINUED...
[–]seekingtruthforgood
ReplyDeleteLaughs - I'm getting confused by our conversation myself - so, I'll try to start over but want to start with clarifying two points:
The laptop being at home was not suspicious.
The laptop being removed by the cops from her home the evening of November 3rd and not delivered to Grand Chute police department until November 5th for mirroring was suspicious.
Cops then also claiming it was removed on November 4th, even though another officer already documented it as being removed on the 3rd, was suspicious.
The CASO report does not match the dispatch log during the morning of November 5th (on a number of key points, including where the officers were when they tested this fax, where they were when the search teams went to Avery's, and where they were when they received the call from Pam Sturm).
The issue with the fax boils down to Angela Schuster. She's lying. Two times she told police that the only contact she had with Teresa on October 31st was the strange fax she picked up from the machine on the 31st. She was asked twice. During the second interview, Wiegert basically said, "...but the AutoTrader number showed up on 'this' here report at 2:27." She basically said, "Well, that could have been Dawn that she talked to." So, even after the police pushed her, she had zero recall of talking to her employee – the one who was missing.
Within CASO this discrepancy is never corrected – a follow up conversation between law enforcement and Angela was never documented... ever.
But, flash forward to trial: Kratz argued that Angela did have a conversation with Teresa, "a little after 11:00 AM," presumably from Teresa's home phone (because the 11:10 cell call that was picked up by tower (and from AutoTrader) was only 5 seconds, so, the state knew AutoTrader didn't have a conversation with Teresa during that particular call).
So, now flash forward again to Zellner's recent motion and the witness, Steven Speckman, who said that he spoke with Teresa at 12:45 PM. She told him she was in the Sheboygan area and could meet with him during the next 30 minutes before she needed to leave the area. Well, at 12:45 PM, her cell phone was still pinging on 21112, which is the same tower that she had been pinging on since 8:17 AM that morning.
That call, "shortly after 11:00 AM" with AutoTrader, per Angela, was supposedly to confirm that she could take the appointment with Avery – and we know that, if the call happened, which I don't believe it did, Teresa was not home. She may have called Angela from someone else's land line, but, it wasn't hers and it wasn't from her cell.
Now, getting back to the rest of the issues: if she still had a home phone, why were the first two calls on her long distance bills roughly 50 days old and older? And, if she still had a home phone, why is there no documentation of any follow up on those numbers and an actual filing of a warrant?
Last and most important question, at least for me: how did they know the fax machine was run by or though her computer if it was separate and hooked up to her phone line, and still at home? They had the computer on November 3rd – it had already left her house – so the fax machine, if live, should have been there, on her desk, plugged into her phone line... how did they know that it was hooked up to a computer?
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/7e8s45/why_teresa_had_her_computer_tied_to_her_fax/
Zellner tweet on March 8, 2016: Fact: one person actually gave cops fake name to access property to help in TH search. #MakingAMurderer #TheStrangerBesideMe #Checkaduhid
ReplyDelete[–]southpaw72
dyk, KZ has evidence that a cheque TH received on that fateful day was actually cashed ;-)
I cant say how i am privvy to this info but watch out on 13th ;-)
i cant mate, i shouldnt have said what i said but i am like a fuckin kid waiting to go on a date
Jesus how the fuck would I know . I heard some insider info and didn't get to grill the person sharing it . I am surprised I heard what I did let alone a full and frank rundown . We have waited a year . Another ten days and all will be clear ;-)
[–]adelltfm
Not sure how to find it now. He removed the post then hid on TTM for a while.
[–]southpaw72
Hid on ttm ??? First I heard
I never deleted nothing out of embarrassment you melt . I deleted it because I should never have said it .
[–]southpaw72
scouse, i got news for ya mate, you thought you had been blagged by the docu, you had it right originally mate and you have since been blagged in his guilt , i aint pulling your leg mate
[–]ScousePie[S]
Lol come on then. Where's this bombshell come from?
[–]southpaw72
we are scousers, we always know a man that knows,
i have a family member who is in the justice system based chicago, one of the girls she went to school with works for KZ
the cheque was payable to AT
[–]cereal shillerH00PLEHEAD
A check TH physically received, or a simply a check to A/T?
[–]southpaw72
Jesus how the fuck would I know. I heard some insider info and didn't get to grill the person sharing it. I am surprised I heard what I did let alone a full and frank rundown. We have waited a year . Another ten days and all will be clear ;-)
Cheque ad u hid . Boom !!!!
Cheque mate . Boom Κ•α΄₯•Κ
https://www.reddit.com/r/SuperMaM/comments/5xbkkt/probably_about_three_months_maybe_less_some_of/
[Summary] WENDY BALDWIN SCHMITZ
ReplyDeleteby u/Sillinesscjlg
Every time I turn around, Wendy Baldwin Schmitz can be attributed to something else, so I thought I would make one thread of all things Wendy Baldwin Schmitz.
I believe she is the female Calumet retired deputy who recently gave the anonymous news interview stating that SA's trailer was immaculate. This is the link I found to show which deputies were on the search warrant to search the trailer. This is Roland Johnson's (trailer owner) complaint. http://overthrow.us/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/7th-Circuit-Property-Owner.pdf Since I can't find any other Calumet female deputies on any warrants for the trailer, I would have to conclude the anonymous news interview was Wendy.
She was the "new chick" mentioned that did the flyover with Pagel & Weigert on 11/4. Curtis Drumm's trial testimony, Day 2, page 108 http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Jury-Trial-Transcript-Day-2-2007Feb13.pdf
She was the infamous voice on MaM saying SA wasn't going to make the Innocence Project Dinner & that they should take some of his shoes to process for unsolved burglaries. Again, citing source above that she was only female officer listed on search warrant.
At all relevant times, Jerry Pagel was the Sheriff of Calumet County and Sheriff’s Deputies William Tyson, Mark Wiegert, Wendy Baldwin and John Dedering executed the search warrants on Johnson’s property.
She starred in her very own effigy video: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/sheriff-deputies-disciplined-facebook-video-shows-burning-effigy-dressed-uniform-article-1.381174 And was demoted to Dispatcher because of it.
On Nov 5th, Wendy Baldwin Schmitz gained possession of a bloody rag — falsely claiming it came from the vehicle next to the Rav4 saying that Cadaver dog Brutus “hit” on it (courtesy of DK Sale) http://dksale.net/2016/03/16/sgt-wendy-baldwin-planted-steven-avery-evidence-in-halbachs-suv-with-bloody-rag/ This rag is never mentioned in the dog handler's testimony (Julie Kramer) Day 5, Page 18 on, http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Jury-Trial-Transcript-Day-5-2007Feb16.pdf#page=5 Why lie Wendy?
She participated in the illegal search of the Grand Am, in which Kratz tried to cover this up by signing the illegal search after the fact. See above article courtesy of DK Sale. The bloody rag could have been found during this illegal search. I could not find any mention of this bloody rag in any further evidence documentation.
She is never called to testify by Kratz.
More connections made in /u/Whitevorpal post https://redd.it/4av86s
She was one of the officers who interviewed Kayla on 2/20 http://static1.squarespace.com/static/5691be1b25981daa98f417c8/t/56932ac8a976af0bfc5a9839/1452485326873/dassey_4_19_07.pdf Weigert testimony, page 197
The female deputy from the anonymous news interview is identified as being retired. While I was not able to find any definitive proof that Wendy Baldwin Schmitz is retired, I did find this:
She was demoted to Dispatcher & is listed as a Dispatcher in the 2012 Calumet County directory (page 15). Http://www.co.calumet.wi.us/documentcenter/view/346 - but is completely absent from the 2016 directory (page 13-14) Http://www.co.calumet.wi.us/documentcenter/view/1743 - so we can assume she does not work in the Calumet Sheriff Dept any more, but is she retired?
I would love to know what further involvement Wendy Baldwin Schmitz played in all of this.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/4aqad2/summary_wendy_baldwin_schmitz/