"Compressing the common carotid quietly while she was already in a deep sleep would have likely pushed Shanann into a deeper sleep without a fight or flight response that comes from cutting off the veins. My big thought is...'Why did you lie Chris? Why say you saw her eyes fill with blood?' He also asked about mascara as if he did not know. 'Was it mascara?' It was truly as if Chris was not there when it happened. That he saw them after they had passed." - Jewels of Thought, January 7, 2021 (video below)
Theory: All three—Shanann, Bella and Cece—were alive but unconscious or heavily drugged before leaving the Watts home on the morning of August 13, 2018; and only Bella woke back up on the drive to Cervi.
Chris has been kept informed by his family and pen pals about discussions online regarding his case (reddit, youtube, etc.).
He knew about the "two shadows" spotted by sleuths of neighbor Nate's CCTV footage for the morning of August 13, 2018. He mentioned hearing about the "shadows" in the footage to Tammy Lee, Coder and Baumhover when they visited him at Dodge prison on February 18, 2019.
And, after his February 2019 Dodge prison confession, he wrote his letters to Cherlyn Cadle.
In his letter dated April 23, 2019, which Cadle sold to the Daily Mail, he says that he "killed" both of the girls in their beds before killing Shanann, but "they woke back up."
Remember that a month earlier, on February 18, 2019, he also said "they woke back up," but the detectives did not catch onto this statement.
February 2019 Dodge Interview:
Tammy: Could she grab your arms or were her arms pinned down or?
Chris: No, not that I remember, I don’t think so, I mean I don’t think, like, I moved to where my knees are around her arms or anything, but, I just kinda like when I got on top of her we just started talking and that was it. Its kinda like in my head or the back of my head that was gonna happen just like at the end of the conversation it was just like, that’s what happened. I just wish I could have let go.
Tammy: Did it seem like it was that long? Two to four minutes? How long did it seem for you?
Chris: Almost kinda felt like it was longer almost cuz it felt like time was standing still. It’s kinda like I just saw my life disappearing before my eyes but I just couldn’t let go. It was like somebody else, like, like if you picture somebody else around you holding your hands—holding you to keep you from not letting go.
Dave: At some point there was a statement about rage. Do you feel like you were in a rage at that point?
Chris: That’s the only way I can describe it, honestly. Like a snap. I guess my attorney had said strangulation is more of a like a, I don’t know, passionate type thing—I don’t know how that can be passionate.
Tammy: It’s just intimate cuz you’re right in there, using your own hands. It’s a lot different then someone standing across a room and you shooting them or something like that, so…
Chris: I guess it just felt like somebody was like, behind me, just like, (makes popping sound). Just…I just couldn’t let go.
Grahm: It’s interesting to me because there was a lot of things in your life that were like that. Maybe you just felt out of control, or maybe felt like I don’t know why I couldn’t take a step back or, you know? Like even when you said your buddy was like let’s go to the football game, you wanted to say yes you just couldn’t.
Chris: I wanted to , like I, I hadn’t been to a football game since North Carolina so I was just like “yeah sure”, like, I wanted to say that, I wanted to just text yeah, yeah babysitter fell through nope, can’t go.
Grahm: So, then what?
Chris: After, you know, Shanann was like, once that was…once she was gone…it was just like, I didn’t know what was going on, it feels like a traumatic event type. Everything I was shaking I didn’t know what had happened. I didn’t know what to do. I didn’t know what I had done. I still wasn’t in that right state of mind. I don’t think like I wasn’t in control of what I could think or what I could do in that point of time. Most people say “Why didn’t you just call 911?”. Unless you’re in that situation you don’t know what you would have done. It’s easy to play Monday morning quarterback.
Grahm: I agree with that
Chris: Like you said if someone shoots someone you don’t know what was going through their mind at that point in time. You don’t know what you would have done.
Grahm: So what happened next?
Chris: Bella came in the room.
Grahm: Is that what happened? Bella came in? What did she say?
Chris: ?
Grahm: Did she hear something, is that why she came in?
Chris: Obviously, I think
Grahm: Ok. What did you tell her?
Chris: Mommy don’t feel good.
Grahm: And then, did that happen with Bella right in that room?
Chris: Not in our room.
Grahm: Okay, what happened?
Chris: She walked in, she thought, you know, Shanann was sleeping.
Grahm: Did you take her back to her room?
Chris: I put Shanann in that sheet [???]
Grahm: Okay, and then what?
Chris: Carried her downstairs, backed my truck up.
Grahm: At that point were the girls still there?
Chris: (Assuming he nods)
Grahm: Okay, so Shanann’s in the truck, then you went back to the house?
Chris: Got everybody back in the truck.
Grahm: Was Bella first, or was Cece first?
Chris: In the truck?
Grahm: I’m sorry — so Shanann was first, and then Bella was next? Was Bella alive when you guys got in the truck? (Assuming Chris nodded by response) Oh, okay, what happened?
Chris: They woke back up
Grahm: Okay.
Chris: I don’t really want to talk about this part, honestly.
Grahm: Okay.
Chris: Those are my kids, my babies, I have to talk to them every night (cannot understand through crying).
Grahm: Okay.
Chris: Every time I see pictures of them, I don’t know how this could have happened. Being a dad was the best part of my life. I took it all away.
Since his conviction in November 2019, he has talked a lot about Bella with his pen pals [as well as with detectives, in February 2019].
But he has not talked a lot about Cece. His pen pals have since explained that he described Cece as being in and out of consciousness after "waking back up."
The following is a paraphrased post by Osiloo on reddit, along with comments:
The chances of BOTH girls "waking back up" after suffocation is going to be a lot smaller than just one of them miraculously surviving.
There seems to be a general consensus that one of the girls was carried to the truck and one walked.
During his 2019 confession to detectives, the only thing he said about Cece was that "Cece wasn't up yet; she was just in her room, getting ready to get out of bed."
The fact that he said Cece was still in bed leads us to believe that she never "woke back up" like Bella did.
When asked if they were awake in the truck, he said: "I think one was awake, one was asleep, Cece was like..." and then he trails off.
When asked, "Did you have to wake Cece up," he pauses, kind of mumbles and then just says, "There was noise trying to get Shanann down the stairs." Trying to avoid the question, he never confirms yes or no.
In the 2019 interview at Dodge prison, he talked about Bella's death at the tanks in more detail than he does with Cece's.
Is this because he is telling the truth about Bella but lying about Cece's murder?
[–]wyldcynic
This is the theory that I have been leaning toward as time has gone by and after the multiple confessions.
Clearly CW is a liar but he’s smart enough to know that believable lies are grounded in half-truths.
He also very much cares about what people think about him. If he’s still lying—and I think most people feel he is—it’s to avoid confessing to something worse.
I couldn’t think of anything worse, but this might be it—Cece being incapacitated but not quite dead, and Bella fully regaining consciousness. That would result in him having to “kill them twice.”
But poor Bella. She definitely fought back and knew what was happening to her was terrible, and that’s the hardest part. She seemed to always be so nervous, like she was born knowing the world would not be a kind place.
[–]vestalis66
He separated them to not set off sensors in the tanks: this is one theory I read, which seems plausible.
[–]Medusas__Gaze
In the very least, Cece was unconscious or drifting in and out of consciousness.
I think that truck ride to Cervi was far worse for Bella than he states in his "confessions".
[–]KayaXiali
I think so too. I think Bella is why he won’t tell the actual story. I think he put her through hell.
She tended to freak out in normal situations. Mom is in underwear and has lost control of her bowels. Sister is in a trash bag. She must have been losing it, and he probably either ignored her or just told her to shut up.
He speaks of still being so enraged when he unwrapped Shanann and left her face-down in the shallow grave.
If he was that furious the whole time, that 45-minute drive would have been torture for the poor baby.
[–]Chrissie123_28
I could swear I see Chris holding a plastic bag while loading up the truck with something the size of a small child. I have not re-watched the security camera footage it in months, but that’s what I saw, and it made sense.
There’s a lot of different cuts to that footage. But I could have sworn I saw him holding a plastic trash bag that looked heavy and the size of a child.
He was holding it while on the passenger side of the truck, pretending to load it.
Look at the video, right before he puts the gas can in truck.
At the 7:20 mark in the video above, CW walks around something as he enters the garage. From that point, change the setting and play the video at .25 speed, pausing it often to catch activity (although it will be blurry).
[–]Sparkletail
He said in the interview he had two trash bags, one for Shanann’s head and the other for her feet. Although I don’t believe a word he says about anything.
[–]KayaXiali
She was also wrapped in a sheet. Why would he have put a bag on her feet and then taken it off? That’s BS.
[–]Osiloo[S]
He wrote to a woman called Cheryln Cadle, who later published a book about him. A lot of the book is a re-hash of the stuff we already know from interviews, but there are letters from CW in there (it's called Letters from Christopher; the newest version of the book is called The Murders of Christopher Watts).
[–]Broadway2635
I think he drugged both girls before he put them to bed. If Bella was alive on the truck ride, she was probably too drowsy to speak much and question what was going on. Otherwise, I think she would have been hysterical.
[–]Medusas__Gaze
Cherlyn Cadle was the one who said Cece never spoke again and that Chris thought she had brain damage. She made that assumption after talking to Chris but he never publicly said that.
[-]magiclouge
CW's pen pal Shannon also says that CW told her that Cece was barely conscious.
[–]JaneDoeNew
He says “woke up” as opposed to “came back”, which makes me think maybe they were sleeping/drugged, and that only Bella fought back, indicating Bella was not drugged enough.
I think this is why, when the investigator asks “what happened next,” he has a hard time going on and says he can’t talk about it because “those were his babies.” Something about that part bothers him.
[-]magiclougie
Nobody died in the house, which would explain why cadaver dogs didn't hit on any remains in the house. And only Bella woke back up.
Bella, for some reason, woke back up from being drugged/sedated, and this is why she is the only one to show signs of struggling.
[–]Rodi747
This is a very interesting alternate theory. I’ve always thought the girls were both dead when he left the house. I couldn’t see anyone walking out to the truck in the footage. But it strikes me as incredibly reckless for someone who had just murdered his wife to have awakened toddlers hanging around. These children were loud—they are described as screaming for their mother when she was out of town, and the little one would run out to the street from the house or garage when unsupervised.
His description of them “walking around the house” was ridiculous. These children watched plenty of Disney movies, so they knew what dead was.
Watts is a total liar. There is no reason to believe anything he says.
I agree that there are things that happened between 2am and 5am that we will never know.
We still don’t know if he doped the girls, do we?
[–]CrazyKitty2016
Cece would have taken her pull up off if she were headed outside. I'm sure it was wet, and there's no way she would have just left the house in her wet diaper by choice.
[–]nicholepi1984
If Bella was freaking out in the car it could have also upset him.
[–]Greenboots82
He said that Shanann came between him and his family and that’s why he was so angry. I wonder what was said between him and his mom after nutgate.
[–]irielittlelizzie
Also, he had his parents, sister and NK all hyping him up on how "terrible" Shanann was before he did it. That was probably quite a boost in reaching rage level.
[–]Sparkletail
While I don’t ascribe to Chris snapping and killing them all, I think that he is incredibly out of touch with his emotions and possibly there were decades of repressed rage in there due to spending an entire life being dominated, first by his mother, then by Shanann [and, finally, by Nichol Kessinger].
Some of the things he talks about in regards to liking NK were the fact that she asked his opinions on things, asked him what he wanted to do, and let him make decisions. I’m not sure he’d experienced that before, and I think it could have led to some of his protective psychological barriers thinning, allowing him access to his anger.
He talks about not being in control of himself, like something else took over. There are psychological theories which state we all have ‘parts’ and a core self which manages. In people who are very psychologically damaged or limited, the theory is that there is no real core self to manage the various parts and that they basically take turns at being in control. It’s not as bad as multiple personality disorder, but is on a spectrum.
I have wondered if the interactions with NK brought out a usually inactive and very angry part which had been repressed and hidden for a long time.
Or, he could just be completely dead inside and saw this as the quickest way to resolve the situation, is fairly limited in the perceptions of others, and got caught earlier than he expected, which is why the whole thing is such a mess. I go between the two theories.
[–]takingheed
It can be both theories simultaneously. The working out excessively was most likely a similar situation. He was enjoying the results of getting in shape/attention at the same time as exerting control over his body/choices.
This was probably also a way of him letting off anger and rage the best way possible.
The lack of a real core self, changing environment and narcissism meant his toxic mix of parts was a ticking time bomb.
[–]Sparkletail
Yeah, it could be that the limited, dead-inside version is a part in itself. I also agree about the working out and receiving more attention as a boost to self esteem could be another activating factor (also boosted by the Thrive crap and the lack of sleep).
[–]Osiloo[S]
In the same letter, where he says "they woke back up," he does admit to premeditation:
"I walked away and said, 'That's the last time I'm going to be tucking my babies in'." He added, "I knew what was going to happen the day before and I did nothing to stop it. I was numb to the entire world."
Watts also wrote:
"August 13th, morning of, I went to the girls' room first, before Shanann and I had our argument. I went to Bella's room, then Cece's room and used a pillow from their bed. That's why the cause of death was smothering. After I left Cece's room, then I climbed back in bed with Shanann and our argument ensued.
"After Shanann had passed, Bella and Cece woke back up. I'm not sure how they woke back up, but they did. Bella's eyes were bruised and both girls looked like they had been through trauma. It makes the act that much worse knowing I went to their rooms first and knowing I still took their lives at the location [of the batteries]."Describing Shanann's death, Watts wrote:
"All the weeks of me thinking about killing her, and now I was faced with it. When she started to get drowsy, I somehow knew how to squeeze the jugular veins until it cut off the blood flow to her brain, and she passed out.
"Isn't it weird how I look back and what I remember so much is her face getting all black with streaks of mascara?
"I knew if I took my hands off of her, she would still keep me from Nikki. They asked me why she couldn't fight back. It's because she couldn't fight back. Her eyes filled with blood as she looked at me and she died. I knew she was gone when she relieved herself."
After the girls "woke back up," according to Watts:
"The girls were just kind of running around the house and watching me with scared looks on their faces. Bella started to cry and, when she did, Celeste started whimpering. What a nightmare this was."
[–]goddamitletmesleep
CW generally tries to present things in a way to make himself look better than the reality, and for this reason it never made much sense that he spoke so candidly of killing the girls twice and of having them ride alive in the truck next to their dead mother.
This is truly horrific and makes him look even worse in my opinion. It is out of character for him to admit this.
One way this admission makes sense is if he’s actually hiding something even more terrible than that, which could be that only one of the girls was alive at this time, having to ride next to her murdered mother and her murdered toddler sister, completely alone, with nobody to comfort her.
This is an even more horrifying scenario (especially if Bella had been in the bed of the truck with her mother and Cece), and I could see how Chris may think, in his warped mind, that saying both girls were alive would sound slightly better because at least they’d have been able to comfort one another.
It would also make sense as to why, according to the autopsy, there were some signs of Bella fighting back, but not Cece. Absolutely heartbreaking.
[–]Tara_ble0212
The video:
Nate's CCTV footage (videos below) is motion activated with a 10-second delay. Something triggered the camera 10 seconds beforehand for us to see the person(s) walking out of the garage.
After the triggering and 10-second delay, the camera records for 30 seconds. If motion is continually detected, then it stays on and records until motion is no longer detected.
The video released by law enforcement was spliced together to join the 30-second segments into one video, but the video is much longer than it should be (it should only be 27 minutes of his truck setting idle in his driveway), indicating that it was not properly spliced together, and it appears that nine minutes of footage is missing from the beginning (Chris opened his garage door and walked to his truck parked on the street at 5:17 AM, backed the truck into the driveway at 5:18 AM, and pulled out of the driveway at 5:46 AM).
Nate said: "This is him at 5:17!" at the start of the video. His original version has time stamps.
CCTV footage of Chris and his truck: The camera started recording before we see anyone walk out into the driveway; so, someone walked out first or something triggered the CCTV camera 10 seconds before we see the person(s) walking out of the Watts garage.
And in the first footage we see, it's actually CW walking out first and NK climbing on his back, her hair in a high ponytail (video below).
There are big gaps of activity in the driveway footage. If there is no activity, and Nate's camera is triggered to record only if it detects motion, then why is there camera footage of no activity? If we don't see Watts in the footage, what motion is the camera detecting for it to continue to record?
The time stamps:
Around the 10-minute mark: there is activity from the garage to the truck (NK climbing on CW's back as he exits the garage).
Around the 16-19-minute mark: there is more activity from the garage to the truck.
Around 24:25: headlights of a vehicle parked on the street come on as CW walks down the driveway from the garage, along the driver's side of the truck.
Around 24:50: along the passenger's side of the truck, CW walks to the garage and immediately exits the garage, with a red gas can in his left hand. He lifts it to put it into the bed of the truck. Yet, he doesn't put the gas can into the truck.
With the red gas can still in his hand and lifted, he takes it back out and then goes back toward the garage. Then he turns around and goes back toward the front of the truck, around the truck and along the driver's side, and places the red gas can into the bed of the truck. He then appears to bend at the waist to pick up something. It looks like he sets something aside, and then he returns to the garage.
Around the 26-minute mark: Chris comes from the garage and appears to put something in the bed of the truck, on the driver's side. He then comes back out of the garage and walks toward the front of the truck on the driver's side. Headlights appear to come on from a vehicle parked along the street, in front of the Watts home, and then Chris walks along the passenger side of truck and back into the garage with nothing in his hands. At the same time, you can see a light illuminate in the street, which disappears at 27:52.
Just before the 29-minute mark: Chris walks out from the garage, along the passenger side of the truck and toward the front seats. Lights from the vehicle parked along the street flash again, and then this vehicle appears to leave the area. At the same time, Chris walks along the passenger's side of the truck and enters into the garage.
At 34:03: Chris pulls his work truck out of the driveway and leaves (he left at 5:46 AM).
What if Chris parked his truck in the driveway in such a way as to block the camera's view of the vehicles on the street. What if loading the red gas can into the truck is also a distraction from other activity he is trying to hide from Nate's cameras?
In Nate's CCTV, if you watch when the headlights of Chris' truck turn on, there are clearly two sets of headlights on, initially. If you watch the direction of the lights, his headlights alone couldn't have moved in all those directions. It seems that he moves his truck in such a way as to block the camera from seeing the movement of other vehicles. It is very obvious in the original video from the discovery.
In the video below from the Oxygen special, gaps in activity have been edited out, and some of the activity is missing, such as when the CCTV is first activated. Plus, the ending footage is at the beginning.
This special on the Oxygen channel has higher resolution of Nate's CCTV footage than was provided by Weld County to citizens via FOIA.
In other words, higher resolution of this CCTV footage is in evidence but has not been shared with the public.
Screen shots from Nate's CCTV on the Oxygen channnel:
http://imgur.com/gallery/f2JKOGt
When asked by FBI Agent Graham Coder why he was so nervous watching the video in Nate’s house that morning, Chris responded that it was because he thought they could see him picking up the girls and putting them in the truck.
[–]eLizabbetty
It looks like, from Nate's video (above), there is movement from another person in the shadows. If Chris says it's the girls, then that protects the actual accomplice(s).
[–]Sonnyjesuswept
Weren’t there shadows near the truck showing Chris and possibly two other people standing there?
[–]Whenyouseeit00
Yes, I saw two shadows... I watched it over and over and over again. It didn't look like a child either.
"I believe SW was sedated and taken out through the basement, which CW said (in the porch sermon) has no cameras or alerts, and there are tire tracks. I think SW was put in the trunk of the red car, hence her position in the shallow grave. There's no indication in Nate's CCTV of him loading a body of a pregnant woman, and he knows what can be seen in Nate's CCTV since he went to check it a couple of weeks before. We also see the headlights from two different cars that morning besides CW's truck, and the red car is not neighbor Bette's car. I think SW was killed at the site and the shallow grave was because they were going to finish with the explosion later but the plan went awry because NA brought LE to the house." - superminkie (see more from superminkie in the comment section of this blog post)
On January 4, 2021, Shannon, a friend of Watts family, former penpal to CW, and friend to youtube creator the Armchair Detective, revealed Chris Watts' "real plan" (video above).
"The plan was to burn the thing down [the oil field at Cervi or the house on Saratoga Trail] but Nickole Atkinson ruined it."
This impromptu confession by Chris Watts to Shannon was triggered when she asked Chris why the green lighter was in his truck and what his plan was (a green lighter had been located in the front passenger side door panel of his work truck, and within the bed of the truck was a partially full gas can and fire extinguisher per discovery page 815/PDF file page 711):
"Like I said, Chris is kind of, in a weird way, easy to talk to, so I was, like, 'Chris, you're literally like the dumbest murder planner possible if you did this by yourself. This is so stupid. You took them to your workplace! You did a really shitty job of covering it up. You're, like, literally the worst murderer ever!' He said the plan was, he was going to go back and burn the field."
Shanann's body was in a shallow grave, approximately nine inches below the surface grade. She was in a fetal position, face down, with her arms outstretched in front of her (rigor mortis may have set in). Her chest and face primarily were facing down into the ground while her backside (buttocks) was oriented up. Her knees were pulled up to her chest at the bottom of the grave and her feet directed up towards the top of the grave. At noon on August 16, 2018, her decomposing body was exhumed from the ground and placed in a body bag. Two and four hours later, the bodies of Cece and Bella, respectively, were removed from separate oil tanks after each tank had been carefully drained of crude oil.
Chris Watts' coworker Troy McCoy was interviewed twice. His first interview was not included in the discovery files released to the public, but the handwritten notes of the detective during this interview are in the files (excerpt above). Troy said that most of the well sites on the Cervi ranch "will be plugged and abandoned." Cervi 319 has been demolished (December 2019 records show it as plugged and abandoned—it was 21 years old and a low-producing well).
By Colorado Public Radio
August 6, 2018
Anadarko Petroleum executives once again find themselves facing a legal battle related to the deadly well explosion in Firestone. A well head in a fenced-off area near the house that exploded and burned in the 6300 block of Twilight Avenue in Firestone killed two people inside the home and injured two others.Investors have re-filed a class action complaint — chock full of new details — that alleges management is responsible for lost stock value and that they were aware of safety problems at the company, but continued to cut budgets amid an oil downturn, leading to fatal consequences.Most of the new information in the amended complaint comes from a whistleblower only identified as “Former Employee 7” — a male, high-ranking superintendent with the company for 12 years, who left Anadarko just before the 2017 blast.Allegations include:Twenty-five percent of the wells received from Noble Energy in a big asset swap, that this former employee plugged, were old and dangerous. The Firestone well, known as Coors V 6-14Ji, was part of the swap.Anadarko did not know the locations of flowlines and pipelines for up to 30 percent of the wells acquired in the swap with Noble. A flowline, thought to be abandoned, pumped gas into the Firestone home, leading to the explosion. In fact, Anadarko couldn’t even locate some whole wells it acquired from Noble, let alone underground pipelines, according to the lawsuit.Before Firestone, flowlines on 80 percent of all Anadarko wells in Colorado were deemed low risk by the company and never pressure tested, “in direct violation of Colorado law.”The former employee also details Anadarko’s use of contractors to carry out inspections in the suit. These contractors, called “pumpers,” were overworked and undertrained, the unnamed source said. They had only about five minutes to conduct cursory inspections, including looking at the well and smelling for leaks. Contractors’ limited inspections would have missed odorless gas from the Firestone well, according to the court filing.Another claim is that some Anadarko wells were never even inspected. Up to five percent of all of Anadarko’s wells were missed because contractors couldn’t handle the work.The former employee said he and others repeatedly informed upper management of safety problems, but because many of the wells were old, low producers were not given priority.Anadarko wouldn’t comment on the accusations in the lawsuit.“Although there is a lot we would like to say at this time,” wrote Jennifer Brice, manager of corporate communications, in an email. “The appropriate path for us is to reserve our response for the court as part of the judicial process.”
Excerpted from an article about the Anadarko explosion of 2017 in Firestone, Colorado:
A 25-year-old Anadarko Petroleum oil and gas well and flowline caused a deadly explosion last April in Firestone, after it had been shut down for a year.
What's Changed, And What Hasn't, After The Firestone Blast?Not every active well in Colorado produces economically viable amounts of oil and gas. Many are older wells, drilled years ago, that are just a shadow of their former productive selves. Industry insiders say drillers will keep them limping along to hold the mineral rights lease attached to the well.
“A lot of times, just because of the deterioration of the flowlines and the wells themselves, they can leak and cause health problems and certainly environmental problems,” said Astrella.
He says Colorado regulators don’t have enough inspectors to properly monitor these aged wells.The state says they actually do well with the 30 field inspectors they have.“I wouldn’t think of it as a safety concern,” said Julie Murphy, director of the Colorado Oil and Gas Conservation Commission. “COGCC’s goals are to ensure that the wells drilled under any regime are adequate and safe.”It’s not clear how many old low-productivity oil and gas wells are kept active merely to hold old contracts in Colorado. Anadarko shut down 3,000 old, active wells after the Firestone explosion, and despite that, the company still had one of the most productive years in Colorado ever — suggesting there are at least thousands of wells that produce very little, yet are kept active to increase profits on some future development.
As an employee of Anadarko, Chris Watts was eligible to purchase an Accidental Death Benefit insurance policy. CW elected to purchase the Principal Sum of $500,000. CW was the “Insured,” as were Shanann, Bella and Cece as “Covered Persons” and “Covered Dependents”. The Policy specified that the Principal Sum for a Covered Dependent would be a set percentage of the Insured’s Principal Sum. The Principal Sum for SW as the spouse of CW was 60% of CW’s Principal Sum, or $300,000. The Principal Sum for Bella and Cece as Dependent Children of CW was 15% of CW’s Principal Sum, or $75,000 each. The total coverage for Shanann and the children was $450,000.
CW felt compelled to tell the police three times what he believed to be the "max" on the life insurance through Anadarko:
Detective: "What about life insurance? Do you guys have any life insurance?"
CW: "Yes, yeah, I got, ah, one for Shanann through work, and then one for both kids through work. I think Bella and Celeste was, like, a 20,000 one. I think that was the MAX you could do."
Detective: "20,000 apiece."
CW: "Yeah, I think that was the — the MAX you could do — and, like, I think Shanann's was like 50 or 100. That was the MAX you could do."
When asked about other life insurance, he went into a bit of a dither and said he didn't have a clue how much other life insurance there was, and the detective asked why he didn't know:
CW: "[Laughs] Oh, cos, cos she — she did it. She did — she did all that, like, cos, like, ah, I think um, the person who introduced us, ah, my cousin's wife, she did, like, insurance. I think she did it through her."
It is believed that CW and NK first met in 2017 at a gym or at a work conference for oil workers, a safety training meeting held on August 3, 2017, after the April 2017 explosion in Firestone (Shanann starting selling Thrive on January 25, 2016; in 2016 CW started losing weight, and in 2017 he started working out).
Nichol Kessinger deleted her google searches but some were recoverable and included google searches for "Chris Watts" on August 3, 2017, eight to nine months before she started working at Anadarko (she started in late March or early April 2018), and searches for "Shannon Watts" in January 2018 (DA Rourke clarified that these were not typos).
Shanann posted her and her family's life on facebook, and it would be easy to stalk them since her facebook page was public.
The Shanann Watts Interview, July 19, 2019, Channeling Erik
Richie greywolf wrote on March 27, 2019 at 7:19 PM:
Chris did not kill Shanann the way he said. She was killed from behind with a rear naked chokehold.
I hold a black belt in traditional Okinawan goju-ryu. When a student goes for his brown belt, we put them in a rear chokehold. If done right, the person cannot fight back. Plus, no marks to the neck.
All the people I’ve ever choked out fought back when their air was going out of their lungs. At the end, when they are fighting for air, they get stronger and squiggly. Moving fast.
When Chris said how he killed his wife, I was hell no!! She would have fought like a cat trying to stay out of water.
When you rear choke, the person can squirm and wiggle but in a few they are going out. Continue to hold the choke, they die. No marks on killer's body and very little damage to the neck and throat of the victim.
Chris did not straddle her. As soon as he had choked his wife she would have clawed him. As soon as she was terrified because she wasn’t breathing and she was strangling to death, she would have even fought more, like, as I said, a cat being put into a bath.
I have degrees in martial arts and I’m telling you he didn’t straddle her because there would have been a fierce fight. But a rear naked chokehold could be done two ways:
1. One with them facing the ground and you’re behind them and strangle them with a rear naked chokehold; or
2. You wrap your legs around them when they’re laying on their back with you underneath them and you got your legs wrapped around their arms and your rear naked chokehold.
Chris and Nichol we’re in the basement as Jim was killing SW.
That is why Bella was killed like that. Rage. She saw the killer. (Chris said to detectives: "She wasn't suppose to be there.") Daddy killed Bella in rage. The two girls were not supposed to die. SW would have been buried somewhere else.
He hated her. There was such anger. When I saw him in court, as they were talking about how he killed the children, I could see in his face the anger, blaming her. It was all her fault. Watch and see.
If you really think he killed his wife by straddling her and him choking her and he didn’t have scratch marks on his f****** arms, on his face, then your f****** a moron.
She was killed with a rear naked chokehold either lying on her stomach or the person wrapped his legs around her and put her in one, and there was nothing left to do but slowly apply pressure and take her breath away and keep it held until she passes out; and keep it held until she dies (no need to crush the larynx or anything.)
Janice Duhan wrote on youtube:
OK, if NK was there that morning, helping him do it, then this all makes sense.
He seems like he was sort of autistic, Asperger syndrome, perhaps, or at least on the spectrum (coworkers called him Rain Man because of a photographic memory, yet he expresses himself poorly).
He was easily controlled and influenced by the women around him. If he’s highly suggestible, and he seems to be, NK probably convinced him that he was unhappy in his marriage and guided him to get rid of his family. He even said that it was like someone else was controlling him as he was doing it.
NK took advantage of CW’s weaknesses for her own advantage because she wanted the life that Shanann had. Chris even said that if his wife and kids hadn’t gone to North Carolina for those six weeks then none of this would’ve happened.
Is he really that weak-minded that he couldn’t be left at home alone for a few weeks without Shanann guiding him every day to keep him out of horrible trouble? Apparently so.
We cannot view CW as a normal person because he clearly is not, evidence by the unfathomable actions he took towards his family.
His own father wouldn’t even acknowledge the situation and preferred to talk about sports because, as CW said, “maybe he’d figured it out.”
So, it seems like his family sort of knew how CW really was. His weakness was preyed upon by NK, and he became a mindless killing machine for her purposes, even getting him to totally take the blame.
He’s an extremely dangerous person no matter how you look at it. There’s no rational explanation for what he did otherwise.
Either this or the Thrive Burn patches drastically messed with his brain chemistry.
I cannot wait for the day when NK is held accountable for her part in these murders. We are waiting CBI and FBI, please take action soon.
Jan-Thurgood wrote on reddit:
On mylife.com, Dwayne Kessinger's stated religion is Wiccan (Dwayne is Nichol's father). It seems that Wiccan is a common religion in the Kessinger family. Even a company called Kessinger publishing, owned by Roger Kessinger, publishes a lot of Wiccan and satanic books.
What gets me is Dwayne Kessinger, Nichol's father, actually controlled the interview and kept saying, "If Chris confesses to this and pleads guilty, basically, is this the end of the case?"
It’s like DK knew exactly what to do so his daughter would not get in trouble for anything.
DK was up to his neck in involvement with the FBI in getting Chris to plead guilty, and Chris did.
DK was very adamant about wanting to "pound it down until there's nothing left."
Was there a threat to Chris or Chris’s family to hurry and shut up and plead guilty, no trial? This was one of the strangest things about the case to me.
Below are Nichol Kessinger's phone records (all calls from and to Jim are in yellow and all calls from and to Chris are in blue). Kessinger worked at the Anadarko office in Platteville.
On murder Monday, she made a call at 6:16 AM to Jim, which was serviced by a tower in Frederick.
Her next call that day, August 13th, wasn't until 2:28 PM, which was serviced by a tower in Platteville.
On the day of the murders, NK could have been in the Watts home when the Vivint security system alerted to the interior garage door being opened at 12:42 PM, right before Nickole Atkinson left the property to drive to Shanann's doctor's office (Nickole was at the Watts home from 12:20-12:47 PM, drove to Shanann's doctor's office, and returned to the Watts home at 1:13 PM).
Nichol Kessinger did not clock in at work on August 13th (she was just an independent contractor so her face-to-face comings and goings were not closely monitored or readily apparent); she clocked out at 3 PM, right after making two phone calls from the office (one at 2:28 PM and another at 2:35 PM) to her spiritual counselor or advisor, 73-year-old Robert of Ordo Templi Orientis. [Source]
Ordo Templi Orientis (OTO, 'Order of the Temple of the East' or 'Order of Oriental Templars') is an occult initiatory organization founded at the beginning of the 20th century. Originally it was intended to be modeled after and associated with European Freemasonry, such as Masonic Templar organizations, but under the leadership of Aleister Crowley, OTO was reorganized around Crowley's Thelema as its central religious principle. One of the major features and core teachings of the organization is its practice of sex magic. Similar to many secret societies, OTO membership is based on an initiatory system with a series of degree ceremonies that use ritual drama. [Source]
The Thelemic religion was founded by Aleister Crowley? August 12th is a sacred holiday for those in the Ordi Templi Oreintis (OTO) called “night of the prophet and his bride,” celebrating the marriage of Aleister and his wife. He believed in magic and sacrifice, satanic beliefs, etc. August 12, 2018 was their 115th year anniversary for this “holiday” they have. In sacrifices, Crowley states that it’s better to sacrifcie those that are male and of complete innocence. Nico may have been the main target of this crime if this was a ritual, and the girls were added "innocence."
This Sunday, August 12, will be the 115th Feast for the First Night of the Prophet and his Bride. Rose [Edith Kelly] and Aleister Crowley married on August 12 1903, allowing her to escape an arranged marriage. This marriage, first of convenience, led to what would turn out to be one of the most important events in Crowley’s life — the writing of the Book of the Law. Rose and Aleister had two children, Nuit Ma Ahathoor Hecate Sappho Lilith (born 1904, died 1906) and Lola Zaza (born 1906). Rose and Aleister divorced in 1909. [Source]
Aleister Crowley is best remembered for writing in 1928 in Magick in Theory and Practice that the most potent invocation involves human sacrifice, that the ideal victim is “a male child of perfect innocence and high intelligence,” and that he had performed this rite an average of 150 times per year since 1912.
SuperHero LOVES Akita’s wrote on youtube:
I submit to you the thought that ALL the things that are not in Watts FOIA are in a case file for accomplices:
Kessinger's 152 PAGES of text messages
Watts texts, recovered
The ‘hair’ from NK’s alleged bald spots.
Possible latent fingerprints
Are Watts' foot and hand impressions in his FOIA?
The feet impressions from CERVI?
There are ties between Kessinger and the OTO cult. I have screenshots before it was taken off their website and before I gave them to FBI. After I gave it to FBI, the cult scrubbed it from their 08-12-18 online calendar and EVERY year forward AND back. And they scrubbed it from their FB page.
OTO = Ordo Templi Orientis. They have a website and one of their locations is in Denver, CO.
On August 10th, the day CW took off from work because the girls' daycare was closed and Shanann had flown to Arizona early that morning, there were strangely no phone calls at all between NK and CW or NK and Jim, which could be because they were all together.
Immediately after the two back-to-back phone calls between NK and Robert on August 13th, which she made from Anadarko's office in Platteville, NK sent a text to CW about cereal in order to make herself look ‘unaware’ of what was happening with CW’s missing family.
In theory, when seeking advise from Robert on the afternoon of August 13th, one of the things he may have said to her were words to the effect, "Make yourself look innocent," because right after talking to Robert she sent CW the text about Unicorn Lucky Charms cereal. She then left the Anadarko office and went to meet Jim at her apartment.
NK's phone records for August 12th:
At 8:46 AM, from home or near her home, she calls Chris, and they talk for 30 minutes.
At 11:30 AM, from home or near her home, she calls Jim, and they have a brief conversation or she leaves a voice message.
At 5:24 PM, from home or near her home, she calls Jim, and they talk for two minutes.
At 9:28 PM, Chris calls Nichol and they have an 111-minute conversation.
NK's phone records for August 13th:
At 6:16 AM, from Frederick, she calls Jim, and they have a brief conversation or she leaves a message.
At 2:28 PM, she receives a call while she's at Anardarko's office in Platteville or near that location.
At 2:35 PM, she receives another call while she's at Anardarko's office in Platteville or near that location.
At 3:32 PM, on her way home from work, she calls Jim, and they have a six-minute conversation.
At 4:48 PM, at home, she receives a call and talks for four minutes.
At 5:01 PM, at home, she checks her voicemail.
At 5:02 PM, at home, she calls Chris, and they talk for one minute or she leaves a voice message.
At 9:48 PM, at home, she receives a call from Chris, and they talk for 50 minutes.
At 11:09 PM, at home, she calls Chris, and they talk for 52 minutes.
TEXT MESSAGES TO SHANANN'S PHONE ON 8/13/2018:
2:01 AM (group text from NA, also sent to SW, saying "we are home" — received by SW's phone)
7:40 AM (staged text from CW, "If you take the kids somewhere please let me know where they are at!" — received by SW's phone — her phone was still powered on) — this was CW trying to frame Shanann, even before any police involvement, by sending a fabricated text to his dead wife asking where she took the kids, who he had just shoved (or witnessed being shoved) into oily graves.
8:25 AM (staged call from CW to SW, duration 23 seconds — at 8:26 Watts searched the internet for Primrose school and then called the school — at 10:10 he searched the internet for the lyrics to "Battery")
8:43 AM (text from NA — missing from SW's phone — not listed in discovery as one of the calls received after SW's phone was powered on at 2:14 PM)
8:55 AM (text from NA — the first text that came through from NA when SW's phone was powered on at 2:14 PM — meaning the phone was powered off at the time this text was sent)
9:21 AM (text from NA — received after the phone was powered on at 2:14 PM)
11:46 AM (text from NA — received after the phone was powered on at 2:14 PM)
12:47 PM (text from NA — received after the phone was powered on at 2:14 PM)
The 2:01 AM text from NA and the 7:40 AM text from CW were received by SW's phone, which indicates her phone was still powered on.
We know at some point after 7:40 AM, SW's phone was powered off — this is because, when it was powered on at 2:14 PM, it indicated there were missed calls and texts.
The missed calls included one from Sandy. The missed texts also included all of the texts from NA starting after 8:43 AM: the 8:43 AM text from NA was not included among these texts. [NA had an android phone and not an iPhone like SW, so this could be a factor.]
What does this mean? It appears that CW's accomplice, who was in the Watts home when he was at Cervi on August 13th, powered off SW's phone at the time of the 8:43 AM text from NA because this is when she realized she was locked out of SW's phone (due to SW changing the passcode) and, therefore, she couldn't execute their plan and pretend to be Shanann by replying to texts from friends and family, and by replying to texts from CW and answering his phone calls to SW's phone to lure his already deceased wife to Cervi.
When asked by Cadle why he left SW's phone at home, he told her he forgot it. But this is another one of Chris' lies. The phone had to be left at the Watts home with his accomplice (NK) because she was going to pretend to be Shanann for the day of August 13, 2018.
If Chris brought the phone with him to Cervi he couldn't stage test messages and phone calls to Shanann because the pings for Shanann's phone would pinpoint its location at Cervi.
The plan was to have his accomplice (NK), who was inside the Watts home when NK arrived at 12:20 PM on August 13th, reply to text messages from friends and family in order to buy time so they could execute their planned explosion.
According to the murder plan, the accomplice (NK), pretending to be Shanann, was going to use Shanann's keys to drive the Lexis to Cervi and, of course, the children would be with her (had they, along with their mother, not already been taken to Cervi early that morning).
The reason why Shanann would be driving to Cervi was either:
(1) to confront Chris about the Lazy Dog charge of $62 for dinner on August 11th and accuse him of having an affair; or
(2) to bring Chris his new work boots (that were found in the covered storage area in the back of the Lexus) because he spilled oil on the ones he was wearing when he left the house that morning.
1. Shanann's flight was delayed by three hours.
2. Shanann changed the passcode to her cell phone without Chris' knowledge, so his accomplice couldn't reply to messages from Chris, friends and family (it appears they did not realize this until NA's first text at 8:43 AM).
3. Because Shanann wasn't replying to her text messages, Nickole Atkinson showed up at the house at 12:20 PM on August 13th, and the accomplice had to escape out of a basement window before NA returned at 1:13 PM and called the police for a wellness check.
Detectives asked Chris about the basement:
Tammy: You had a lot of steps, I’ll just say that.
Chris: So, like the basement, I’m not really sure. The only thing I really have down there is my work out — the bench press and what not.
Tammy: Do you remember going down there for anything or opening that door for anything? Did you think about, “Well maybe I’ll take her out that way”? Is it a walkout basement? I wasn’t at your house.
Chris: No, it’s like a garden level basement. But I don’t remember really. I don’t think I worked out that morning.
Tammy: Like, were you packing your lunch in the kitchen. Did you have to do all that normal stuff?
Chris: Yeah, oh yeah, I packed a lunch and everything, did all that. I don’t remember about the basement or anything unless, if I worked out that morning and I just don’t remember — I don’t think I did. Unless there was a trash bag down there.
Tammy: Oh, you get trash bags from there?
Chris: Maybe I did. Maybe there wasn’t any in the garage and I went down there and got one.
Jim was never a potential alibi for NK. Let's discuss the elephant in the interview room..."Just leave Jim alone".
I thought it was weird that Jim (who lived in Denver) was/is referred to as some sort of alibi for NK but... he supposedly only arrived Monday afternoon and LE wasn't allowed to "drag him into it." (If he was any kind of alibi for NK, wouldn't LE have included that info in the discovery?)
Fifteen minutes into her first interview (August 15th), NK says: "Monday afternoon I came home from work. I was...I actually had a friend over at my house...who is not...involved or knows any thing about this...at all...but like...I went up to meet up with a friend."
It turns out Jim has a key to NK's apartment and was supposedly there waiting for her after work that day.
Jim is described as a close family friend whom her dad has known for years.
It's also worth mentioning that in the weeks prior to the murders NK's phone history shows she repeatedly called Jim-then CW-then called Jim back or called CW-then Jim-then called CW right back.
Let's take a closer look at NK arriving home on Monday to "meet up" with her good buddy:
"I got home to meet my buddy...one of my good friends was coming over to my house. And he actually has a key to my house...he was actually there when I got there. So Jim came over and I got home...he was there...he had just, like, walked in the door and umm... I remember briefly, after he got there, I checked my texts...I mean...briefly after I met up with Jim I, like, glanced at my texts."
This all sounds strangely suspicious. (I mean...actually... went to meet up with but at my house... after I got there but before I was home... umm.)
When LE asked if they can have Jim's contact info, NK infamously says:
"He is not involved, he does not know about this, no no no no no, nothing, absolutely not, he does not need to be dragged into this, just leave Jim alone, just leave Jim alone, I don't want to involve him, it wouldn't be fair to him."
On handing over a particular text from Jim, NK says:
"Umm...I probably still have that text, cause I don't have any reason to delete those."
Yep, that's not suspicious.
I don't have a clue what Jim's role in NK's life or these events was but he is not even remotely close to an alibi for her.
NK's actual alibi: Did you see him (CW) on Sunday? She replies:
"What did I do the rest of the day? I came home...I think I might have just chilled at my house. I don't remember. I think I cleaned my house...I don't know. I didn't see him though."
US oil giant Chevron to buy Anadarko for $33 billion
By BroadDrained.com
Chevron said the deal will strengthen the US oil giant's exploration and production holdings in its home market
Chevron said it will acquire smaller US rival Anadarko for $33 billion in a deal that strengthens the US oil giant's exploration and production holdings in its home market.
The cash-and-stock transaction is centered on Anadarko's properties in the Permian Basin in Texas and the Gulf of Mexico.
These are two areas where Chevron is already a big player and where economies of scale can help drive value with suppliers and in key drilling and production operations.
Anadarko also has a handful of overseas ventures, including a major liquefied natural gas project in Mozambique that Chevron said would help bolster one of Chevron's major global businesses.
"This transaction builds strength on strength for Chevron," said Chevron's chief executive Mike Wirth.
"The combination of Anadarko's premier, high-quality assets with our advantaged portfolio strengthens our leading position in the Permian, builds on our deepwater Gulf of Mexico capabilities and will grow our LNG business," the CEO stated.
For Chevron, the second-biggest US oil company after Exxon Mobil, the takeover of Anadarko marks its biggest deal since its purchase of Texaco, which closed in 2001.
In another transaction, Chevron in 2005 bought Unocal for $18.3 billion after raising the price during a high-profile bidding war with China's CNOOC that drew interest from lawmakers in Washington.
The acquisition is composed of 75% stock and 25% cash, with Anadarko shareholders receiving 0.39 shares of Chevron and $16.25 in cash for each Anadarko share held.
By combining the companies, Chevron expects to cull $1 billion in costs.
The oil giant will also "high grade" its portfolio and sell off some $15 billion to $20 billion of assets.
In 2018, Chevron had $42.4 billion in revenues and pumped 3.1 million barrels oil-equivalent per day, above the level of most members of the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries.
Anadarko had $13.4 billion in revenues last year and pumped 666,000 barrels of oil equivalent per day.
Anadarko is perhaps best known for being a minority partner on BP's ill-fated Macondo project in Gulf of Mexico, the site of the worst offshore oil spill in US history in 2010 following a well explosion that killed 11 people.
Anadarko in October 2011 transferred its interest in Macondo to BP as part of a settlement that resolved claims between the two companies.
Larry Tanoury (videos above and below), a former politician in New York, states that his friend, who worked for DA Michael Rourke at the time, said Rourke was told by Colorado senator Ken Buck to shut the case down. Anadarko, had powerful political ties, and the case was shut down at their request (they called in a favor to Ken Buck).
According to Larry's source, NK was involved in another affair with a powerful person, an Anadarko executive (who she would have called on 8/13/18 when the shit hit the fan), and if NK got taken down for the Watts' murders, it would have exposed this other affair, which is why there couldn't be a trial and prosecution. What probably started as someone trying to save their marriage/position turned into a huge cover up that shut down a quadruple homicide before it could even be investigated properly.
The coverup of NK's involvement was a favor granted by Senator Buck through DA Rourke for a high-ranking Anadarko executive. This coverup was about a $38 million deal: Anadarko was in talks with Chevron and ultimately merged with Occidental on August 8, 2019 (Anadarko’s top six executives received $300 million in payouts).
Around the 1:28:45 mark in a video on Zav Girl's channel, Larry Tanoury explains (video embedded above):
"The real question is: What was going on at the county DA's office in order to make sure that, despite not even confessing (actually, in his original confession, he blamed Shanann for killing the girls), yet an hour after that, they released the entire crime scene? That doesn't happen unless there's a reason for it. That doesn't just happen in a vacuum. This person who originally told me this — BTW, this person, a good friend of mine, doesn't even talk to me anymore because they're so upset that I've been talking, and, so, it's come at a personal cost that I've even said anything — they just thought it was a conversation with a friend that just was chat — But, I've fought as a legislature. I used to fight corruption. I can't take it. And when I heard that the former District Attorney, before Rourke, who is now the congressman, Ken Buck, had a meeting with Rourke and some big executive from Anadarko, right after Chris did his original confession. Then Rourke came out and told the entire office: Nobody's to discuss this, it's over, it's done, and any public comments — nothing is to be said unless it goes through me. And there's other stuff too that I've learned, and I've talked about it publicly. These are things that were told to me by a source who had nothing to gain and, actually, they're very mad that I've said something. But, there was other stuff that they told me. They kept saying that there's tons of information, about, that Chris was not the only one she was having an affair with. She was having an affair with someone apparently high up at Anadarko. Whether that's why they covered it up, I don't know. All I can tell you is what I do know and what I have found out, but I believe that that's where it stems from, whether it's explosion, whether it's all these theories — I don't even try to get into the theories — I just really want to focus on uncovering the cover up and the corruption. And I think once that happens, a spotlight nationally (mainstream media, everybody) is going to come onto this case, and I think the floodgates will open. And certain people will start coming forward who are scared right now to tell the truth. I really want to solve it. I don't want us to be just talking about it for years. I want to find out what happened. Some of the things that were found but are not in discovery... if they want to do something, they have to sue and get the rest of discovery. They found way more on Chris' phone. They found pictures of proof of it. But I don't know who the other person was or anything, I have no idea. I don't think he [Larry's friend] even knew. They all knew. They used to laugh about it in the office, jokingly (Anadarko had the kind of money to make things go away). But when the discovery came out, none of that's there. None of it's there about her affair with the other guy. They'll probably say, 'Well, it wasn't relevant to the case'. Why did you hide it from the discovery? He says they apparently had GPS from her phone, not just the ping. This person said that even investigators are, to this day, troubled by how stymied they were by the DA. They weren't even sharing information with the FBI. I heard Coder is still upset. This is what I heard... There're a lot of familial relationships among these players, even on youtube... This person that I talked to, who was involved in the case, also believes that NK was in the house, based on evidence. He knows that they did have GPS showing exactly where NK was that morning, and her GPS put her right within feet of the house. That is what I was told, and I have no reason to question it."
According to her resume, prior to contracting with Anadarko through Tasman Geosciences, Nichol Kessinger worked for Halliburton, one of the world's largest oil field service companies. Dick Cheney was Secretary of Defense in 1991 when he created a contract vehicle for, and gave contracts to, Halliburton that resulted in millions of dollars of revenue. After leaving the administration, Cheney served as CEO of Halliburton from 1995 to 2000. Then he became Vice President and Halliburton was awarded hundreds of millions of dollars of non-competitive contracts as part of the Gulf War in 2003.
In NK's 8/16/18 interview, she gave advice to CW that should have been given to SW when she returned home from the airport at 1:48am on 8/13/18. And what she told him indicates she was in the Watts home at 1:48 AM on August 13th when Shanann came home because she didn't want Chris to be alone with Shanann.
You know what I would do? I was, like, I would ask one of your good friends who’s off of work tomorrow, to come over to this house and hang out with you while you’re here. I was, like, and go park your truck down the street — I was, like, so she’s upset at you and she wants to come back. I was, like, but she doesn’t want to be here if you’re here, maybe? I was, like, if she comes back, I was, like, and she doesn’t see your truck, maybe she’d be more willing to come in the house. I’m like, you know? I’m like, but don’t be alone with her. I was, like, because if she’s upset enough to leave, I was, like, you don’t know what kinda confrontation you’re gonna have when you get back in the house. And I was, like, so that’s why you should have a friend there — so that you’re not alone with her. And I was, like, and if, for some reason, you are alone with her, I told him — I was, like — I really thought she just left. I did. I was, like, get your phone, put it on video, and put it in your pocket. And I was, like, and just zip it up. And he’s, like, “Why?” And I told him. I was, like, cause you can voice record. I was, like, so if she comes home, I was, like, and you two are still, like, you know — if there’s some choice words being said because you guys obviously got into, like, something that’s, you know — I told him, like, just be prepared. You know, ‘cause at this point, like, it wasn’t, like, I was, like, tryin’ to make her to be a bad person. It was just, like, I didn’t know what was going on. I assumed that she had left, so I was, like, well, when you get back — because I knew that they were going through a divorce — it was, like, just cover your bases, you know, try not to be alone; and if you are, just record what you guys are talking about, so, like, at the end of the day, like, nothing bad happens to you, you know? And, like, that was kinda how I processed that whole situation. And so, um, he was, like, “All right.” And then, uh, she didn’t come home that night.
https://www.truecrimechat.org/2019/03/25/chris-watts-mistress-nicholes-interviews-and-transcripts/ (page 88)
CW and NK Interview Strategies — Alibis, Lies, Transposing Contexts (Theory)
By WaimeaBay
November 2, 2020
Plunder Channel recently released the previously redacted audio portion of NK’s August 16th interview with Kevin Kobak and Tim Martinez.
It’s been commented on by many how both CW and NK seem to piece together much of their stories by taking portions of conversations and events and placing them within another context.
There have been portions of this interview where I’ve always found NK’s comments extremely bizarre and out of place to the rest of the conversation.
One of those portions is her overly-detailed explanation to LE on the directions she gave to CW about moving his truck. Supposedly, for the reason that if Shan’ann were to come home, she would more likely enter the home if she didn’t see his truck. Her reasoning makes no sense because, up to this point, everyone, including her, has vouched for CW’s non violent nature.
This theory ties into another theory I have of Shan’ann being ambushed shortly after she entered her home at 1:48am on Monday, August 13th, 2018.
I believe NK’s instructions to CW were actually the instructions she gave him during the (emotional) 111-minute phone call they had on Sunday night, immediately after finding out about Shan’ann’s three-hour flight delay. There would be no time to waste. In fact, they would need to hit the ground running, as they would be starting out three hours behind, with only three hours remaining to have all three bodies safely dispatched at Cervi 3-19 before the first field personnel arrived.
I believe if you distill NK’s words describing what she told CW, the essence is: Don’t be alone with her.
NK actually said these words.
Shan’ann would be more willing to enter the home if she doesn’t see an unfamiliar truck parked outside.
Have a friend there with you for reinforcements should things get out of hand, that way you’ll cover your bases and ‘nothing bad’ will happen to you.
A couple final observations. In this interview, NK tells a rambling story to Kobak about the baby not being CW’s. A couple times she loses her place, or realizes she’s reached an area she shouldn’t continue with. That’s also why she can never answer a question that is posed to her out of order from her script. That’s the reason she often tells Kobak, “I’ll get there. We’re not there yet”.
ETA 1: I’ve noticed NK has a nervous tic that kicks in when she’s stressed. She hits the table with either her knuckles or the palm of her hand to emphasize what she’s saying.
ETA 2: NK losing her place in the story about the baby not being CW’s is the second time she’s lost her place in a story or reached an area where she’s about to implicate herself or is adlibbing and runs out of places to go next with her story. The first time we saw her do this was when the firestick was mentioned to Kobak and the IT specialist.
The leak could wait until Monday; the “fire stick” couldn’t. Yet, he must get out there ASAP on Monday. Which is it? No big deal? Or big deal?
Shannon (or is this really NK) wrote on November 10, 2018:
"This is and was not a TV Show. It was a Family being Exposed because Shanann was more interested in HER. She was Number 1 in this family. Just maybe if she had paid Attention to her Husband and Kids, and the Dynamics in her Life, this could have been solved in a more appropriate manner. I believe Chris grew to Hate her, dispise her over time. Maybe he wanted Total freedom…no Baggage… No one can think what he was thinking and feeling. This is how he dealt with his Situation. Is it right….or was it wrong. There were many warnings, interesting how None of her Family or Friends, Spoke up. Maybe they too….. were afraid."
"When Bella was a baby, Shanann woke up one night and Chris wasn't in bed. She found him standing over Bella's crib with a pillow. It scared her enough where she said, "Get the f*ck away from my baby." He tried to say he was sleep walking. She texted his family about it. I have heard this story and seen the screen shots direct from his family member. I bet if we searched we would find a lot of stories like this throughout his life. He also hid a huge rage problem. He was quiet but simmering with rage. I think the girls saw it and that's why they clung to Shanann." - Unmasked, December 30, 2020 (Comment Section)
Sunflowers - a symbol of Gaia’s belief system
Posted by WaimeaBay
On the morning of the murders, Chris Watts took a picture of wild sunflowers after disposing of the bodies and sent it to Nichol Kessinger.
I’ve been doing a little research on the significance of the sunflower in the Gaia belief system. I was prompted to look into this after Shannon, the Watts’ family friend, admitted to the Armchair Detective on youtube that Jamie Watts had indeed gotten a sunflower tattoo.
What I’ve discovered is that the sunflower is a very important part of the symbolism representing Gaia’s belief system. I will include a reference below so you can read online and confirm for yourselves.
For context, a Christian symbol representing a cornerstone belief would be the cross of Christ or a dove. A dove is a symbol of the Holy Spirit.
Shannon’s admission to AD that Jamie had gotten a sunflower tattoo on her arm alerted me that she might be trying to show support of NK, since we know NK loved sunflowers.
Google this: sunflowers and Gaia
A Google book will come up several items down in the search results.
‘Gaia’s Sacred Chakras’ by Margaret Bertulli. Click on the link and it will take you to page #55 of the book which explains the significance of the sunflower in the Gaia belief system.
A chakra, according to Merriam-Webster, is any of several points of spiritual energy in the human body according to yoga philosophy.
Questions to ask:
Why did Jamie choose that particular flower to have tattooed on her arm?
Had Jamie and NK met at some point?
If they had met, could that be one of the reasons that Jamie refused to be questioned by detectives?
I also heard a few months back, I believe it was from AD, that there were three ladies who had all gotten sunflower tattoos at around the same time. Two of them were Jamie Watts and Anna, CW’s first female prison pen pal. I cannot recall who the third woman was.
"I had to watch it a second time with the brightness on full to see the piggyback bit [and high ponytail]. I could always see her walking out. I can see exactly what you’re alleging. I don’t think I could be persuaded to think she had nothing to do with the murders with every bit of evidence that has come to light. This isn’t going away any time soon. NK must be shitting bricks, unless the corruption is so deep, she knows she’ll never get arrested for it, and she’s out there with a new face or something as equally insane, living amongst us. As long as she keeps her mouth shut, she’ll be right. That vocal fry of hers will give her away every time." - Comment by No Shit Shurlock (images above and video below).
"I contacted the Frederick Police Department and researched who handles this specific case, which is the Colorado Bureau of Investigation. I emailed 4 people, including the chief in charge, the person in charge of media, and 2 investigators, with no reply from anyone. Odd to say the least. I don't see them ever giving any more attention to the case due to the amount of publicity they already have been involved in. To be honest, I wanted their email response to be included in this video. I started this in October and still have not received any response." - Reply by creator Mabeline Rose (videos below)
Christopher Watts' INTERVIEW at 7:08 PM on August 14, 2018 (before he confessed and before the bodies were discovered)
3332 A: B and C. Celeste, she’d rampage. She was always the one that was gung ho,
3333 she was always the one that’s just like she’s o- she’s either go or asleep. She’s
3334 always the one growling, she’s - she’s always been - she’s a tiger. And Bella,
3335 she’s the calm, the mothering one. She’s the one that’s always are you okay?
3336 You okay? Fine? Okay. She’s just - she’s just the sweetest little girl, she’s the
3337 one that favors me more than Celeste, who’s the one that [favors] Shanann more.
3338 In the way I look at it. You see some baby pictures of me and Bella, she’s like
3339 (unintelligible) the other way around for, uh, Celeste.
3340
3341 Q: When you say favored you, you mean look like?
3342
3343 A: Yes.
3344
3345 Q: Oh. Okay. Are they little daddy’s girl?
3346
3347 A: That one is.
3348
3349 Q: Yeah. That’s how it works, isn’t it?
3350
3351 A: Because the first one I wasn’t really good at it yet. Second one I knew what I
3352 was doing, and she bonded with me. Right from the start.
3974 A: And then they’ll stay at school usual ‘til about four o’clock, 4:30. I’ll usually
3975 be home by then, I can go pick them up. I go in there, sign them out, get in the
3976 car, drive back. They’ll be screaming the whole way because they want
3977 mommy.
3978
3979 Q: Mm-hm.
3980
3981 A: Because that’s - they do have a long day at school.
3982
3983 Q: Mm-hm.
3984
3985 A: And I get home, Shanann will have something for the girls, being whatever
3986 they want it to be. Might be pizza, sometimes they want French fries,
3987 sometimes they want chicken nuggets, sometimes they’re bossy, just like...
3988
3989 Q: Mm-hm.
3990
3991 A: ...just whatever. Most time they have butter noodles, they love that.
3992
3993 Q: Okay.
3994
3995 A: So sit ‘em at - w- wash their hands, sit ‘em at the table. And they’ll eat their
3996 dinner. And then usually go upstairs, take a shower, the get them all washed
3997 up, get them dried off, get some lotion, get their pajamas on, back downstairs,
3998 have a little night time snack they’ll take any - you know, Cheez-Its.
3999
4000 Q: Okay.
4001
4002 A: A wafer or something...
4003
4004 Q: Mm.
4005
4006 A: ...like that. And they’ll sit in their little couches and they’ll watch a cartoon
4007 until about seven o’clock and then between 6:30 and 7:00 we’re giving them
4008 the medicine and any medicine they need at that point in time. If one of them
4009 has a fever...
4010
4011 Q: Okay.
4012
4013 A: ...whatever else. And then brush their teeth, upstairs, (Cece) gets an overnight
4014 diaper, Bella doesn’t, and read ‘em a book. (Cece) really wants a, uh, tiger -
4015 the tiger book.
4016
4017 Q: Mm-hm.
4018
4019 A: I read that to her, we growl at the last part.
4020
4021 Q: Mm-hm.
4022
4023 A: Turn the rain machines on, put...
4024
4025 Q: Is that - is that what you said, she’s your tiger?
4026
4027 A: Yes.
4028
4029 Q: And there comes mine?
4030
4031 A: Yes.
4032
4033 Q: Okay.
4034
4035 A: And turn the rain machines on, give them both a kiss goodnight, (Cece) wants
4036 me to put her to bed, Bella wants Shanann to put her to bed and close the door
4037 and night, night.
4514 Q: I wouldn’t be doing my job if I didn’t grill you a little bit, right? Okay.
4515
4516 A: I’ve seen you turn into two different guys, like. Honestly like I’ve seen like
4517 where you’re smiling and I’ve seen where it’s - it’s different.
4415 A: Uh, she told me she wanted me to wake her up before I left. That’s why I - I didn’t
4416 just wake her up, like just to tell her this. Like I woke her up, that’s what she
4417 wanted to do, and we talked. Like usually at 4:00 am I wake up, I go down and
4418 work out. This day I wanted to talk to her about this. I love these girls. I love
4419 these girls so much. And this picture right here, Celeste and Bella, those are
4420 my life. I helped make those kids. There’s nothing in my life that means more
4421 to me than these kids. Nothing. Kids, that’s - that’s your life, that’s your
4422 lifeline. That’s everything that - you make kids, they’re - they come first over
4423 anything. Kids, spouse, family. That’s what it’s always been.
4424
4425 Q: Nothing you’ve told me tonight makes sense. Nothing you’ve told me tonight
4426 feels like the truth. Can we start over?
Nichol Kessinger's first interview was on August 15th, in the park with her dad and dog.
Her second interview, this one at the police station, was on August 16th.
During this second interview, two days after Chris told FBI agent Coder that his children were his "lifeline", Nichol used the same word, lifeline, to describe what the children meant to Chris. "My kids are my life," is a common expression, not "My kids are my lifeline." Did they rehearse what they were going to say when they communicated on August 13th and 14th?
Nichol talking about Chris: I bet you I can call him right now and he'd answer. Everything we did was my idea. He didn't care what it was, he just wanted to be with me.
Nichol Kessinger's First Interview on 8/15/2018 (26-minute mark in video below):
She lies and says she has only been to the Watts home once, on July 14th, which is when she saw a picture of Shanann with one of her kids... "You've got a beautiful wife and she's the mother of two of your kids. You already have all of this stuff. You already have the house, the car, and the kids, and the marriage and the wife. Are you sure you don't want to fix that?... Just being in that house made me feel like he should try to fix that." This is the day that Chris said he had to talk NK "off the ledge" because "she would get worked up about nothing" (she left the home and went outside to her truck, texting him, and he finally talked her into coming back inside).
Nichol Kessinger's First Interview on 8/15/2018 (35-minute mark in video below):
"I think he's a really good guy, and I'm worried about his wife and kids. Like, really worried about his wife and kids. Like, I don't know where they are! You don't know where they are! Nobody knows where they're at! And it's freaky me out, because those little girls are, like, they're so little! And she's pregnant, you know. And, it's like, Where's their mom! Where are these babies. And it makes me sad."
It sounded like she rehearsed what she was going to say because she says the same thing, almost word for word, in all of her interviews. That alone means it was scripted... "They're so liiiiiddddddle!" And hissing, she's "preeegggnnaaanttt."
When Chris and Nichol are lying, they use "like" a lot.
Nichol Kessinger's Second Interview on 8/16/2018 (video below):
"Oh, those little girls. They’re so little. They’re so little...so sad, and she’s pregnant. And - and wo - on our end, we didn’t... God, they’re so cute. They’re so little. Like, wow. Why? Why? Why? Why? How? I don’t even understand how you could, like, bring yourself to do that to somebody who’s, like, that big. Oh, Jesus."
INTERVIEW WITH NICHOL KESSINGER ON AUGUST 16, 2018
Interviewer: Agent Kevin Koback, Agent Tim Martinez
Page 105
4689 Q: S- so that brings me to a question real quick. I mean, you got - you - I don’t
4690 think anybody over the last six or eight weeks knows this dude better than -
4691 than you. I really don’t. You guys probably spent more time together than
4692 anybody.
4693
4694 A: Mm-hm.
4695
4696 Q: Um, conversation, whatever. Relationship. Um, what do you think - the -
4697 what’s the catalyst for this event? Do you have any - have you had - and I - I
4698 know it’s a hard question but I wanna get it out now we’re here. If - if there’s
4699 a thought that you have, um, that might lead us to understand a little bit why
4700 he might’ve done something like this, um - like I said, I don’t - I met Chris on
4701 - on Wednesday. Um, so I don’t know Chris. Not like you do.
4702
4703 A: Um, you know, I’ve thought about this. And sometimes I think to myself if I
4704 wasn’t in that man’s life, would his family still be alive? And I’ve thought
4705 about this a lot. And I think I can give myself different responses. But in all
4706 honesty, I think they might be alive but not permanently. I do not think that
4707 this man just snapped. I don’t think that he just met some fuckin’ amazing
4708 woman and he was just gonna try to fuckin’ murder his family and then think
4709 that I was okay with, like, building a relationship with somebody who did
4710 something like that. Like, at what fucking point, you know? And not only that,
4711 like, I always try to say, you know, like, “When we get to a point where we’ve
4712 been together long enough, I would love to meet your children.” Like, I never
4713 (discluded) them from anything. Like, I remember comin’ back from
4714 Colorado Springs and I was like, “Oh my God, they got the Cheyenne Zoo
4715 down here. You gotta take your kids. And, like, the - you can feed the giraffes
4716 and they would love it.” Like, I always tried to, like, in- like, show him cool
4717 things like, “Hey, man, would your kids like this? ‘Cause my nephew would
4718 like this. Like, check this out.” You know? Like, I sent him a screenshot of
4719 some rainbow u- unicorn Lucky Charms the other day. I was like, “Do your
4720 daughters know about these? ‘Cause I bet these are epic.” Like, little things
4721 like that where it’s like - like, genuinely - like, I care. I do. Like, despite how
4722 messy this is and how I’m sure I’m gonna be portrayed in the media and
4723 everything, like, I care about, like, his wellbeing with his children and all of
4724 that. And so for me, like, when I think of, “What was he - going through his
4725 head?” I find it really hard to believe that I am the catalyst for all of this. I will
4726 be willing to say that I think me being in his life accelerated what was
4727 inevitably about to happen. But I don’t think people just snap. Love does not
4728 murder. Hate and resentment murder. That’s the way I look at that. I do not
4729 know what is the truth anymore and what’s not and I don’t have all of the
4730 details. But this is just my, like, opinion but I’m pretty convinced that that
4731 woman and him did not get along very well and the reason they stuck together
4732 was, “Hey we’re gonna do kids.” And I think they also stuck together because
4733 they were in a very bad financial bind. And I think that she continuously
4734 disregarded it. And I think he messed up because he was too passive to say
4735 anything to her about it and really address it. And it just got to the point where
4736 it’s just like, you file bankruptcy and then what do you do? Just wait 'til you
4737 file the next one? I don’t know. I don’t know what their finances look like
4738 now but from the way it made it sound, it’s probably a pretty stark situation.
4739 And I don’t know if hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt over and over
4740 and over again are enough to lead a man to, like, wanna take somebody out
4741 but I don’t know. I’ve heard of people committing suicide over that shit
4742 before. And I would never justify what he did. I think it’s fuckin’ disgusting.
4743 It’s - ugh. Like, he’s such a fuckin’ pig. But I just - I try to, like, be like,
4744 “Why?” I try to come up with the why. And I really think that he was
4745 struggling with her really bad and not only that, he’s got a third child on the
4746 way and I know he was probably just like, “I can’t fucking afford a third kid.”
4747 Wants it but can’t afford it, you know? And he always told me he, like,
4748 wanted a little boy. You know? He wanted a third child.
4849 Q: And - and then I - I have just two cursory questions regarding some -
4850 something else and then I think maybe Tim has a few questions for you. But
4851 the - I think what you, um, say about the finances directs - direct- ra- dir
4852 directly at his wife. Do you think that goes to the children as well? Because
4853 she took, uh - did she treat them like that, like they were gold and they got
4854 everything as well that you know of? Or do you think there’s a separate issue
4855 for why he may have, um, done what he did to his children other than
4856 financial?
4857
4858 A: That part, I don’t have an answer for. I can’t fuckin’ explain that. I don’t even
4859 think there is an answer. I don’t - I don’t even think there’s any sort of, like,
4860 computing up here that could possibly give a rational explanation for why that
4861 would’ve happened.
4862
4863 Q: ‘Kay.
4864
4865 A: I mean, the only thing that I’ve honestly thought of when I play the scenario
4866 over in my head is that maybe they woke up and saw him doin’ in their mom.
4867 And he was like, “Fuck.
4868
4869 Q: ‘Kay.
4870
4871 A: Now I gotta do this, too.” I don’t know. I’m like - I’m like, “Why?” Because
4872 they were, like, his, like, little lifeline, you know? He - he - that was
4873 everything to him, you know? And I get, like, those two have problems.
4874
4875 Q: But he had a great relationship his - but from what you’re accounting is he...
4876
4877 A: With his kids.
4878
4879 Q: ...he loved his children.
4880
4881 A: Yeah. Like, I’m - that part - it just - it’s - oh my g- that’s the worst part of this
4882 whole mess. The worst part of this whole mess. And...
4883
4884 Q: We won’t dwell on it. We don’t have to do that.
4885
4886 A: No.
4887
4888 Q: Let me ask you, um...
4889
4890 A: But - so no, I don’t - I don’t have an explanation. That’s the only thing I can
4891 possibly, plausibly think of is maybe they saw it. But other than that, I don’t
4892 know what the fuck.
Chris Watts to Ronnie Watts (video below): "In her heart I know she knew about the affair. She was just waiting for me to say something. We denied it again. She just lost it."
In CBI agent Tammy Lee's report for the August 15, 2018, interrogation and polygraph of Chris Watts, she wrote (discovery page 605):
"Ronnie asked Chris what Shanann said that morning when he told her everything. Chris said Shanann asked him why and asked him why he wanted to give up. Chris said Shanann said: 'Fuck you, and fuck you, and fuck you'."
After entering her home through the front door at 1:48 a.m. on August 13th, and before 1:51 a.m., Shanann climbed three floors, per activity logged on her iPhone (image below). Logically, if Chris wasn't on the first floor when she arrived home, she would have climbed the stairs to the second floor where the master bedroom and childrens' bedrooms were located. If Chris or the children were not upstairs, then she may have gone to the basement to check for them. If there was an emotional discussion, it may have occurred in the basement, with Shanann leaving the basement and climbing the basement stairs to the first floor (two full fights climbed so far) and and then again climbing the stairs to the second floor to go to bed. Shanann had her iPhone in her possession, and an iPhone registers that you climbed a flight of stairs only if you go up. Shanann's iPhone says she climbed three flights of stairs between 1:48 a.m. and 1:51 a.m. Her iPhone also shows that she had no more steps after 1:51 a.m. (steps weren't registered again until her iPhone was found in the sofa cushions around 2 p.m. on August 13th).
The first thing Shanann would have done upon arriving home at 1:48 AM on August 13th would be to check on her children. If they weren't in their beds, she would have gone back downstairs to check the rooms on the first floor and then down to the basement to check there. She did not leave the home from the front door or garage, which means she was taken out the back, probably through the sliding glass door in the kitchen or one of the basement egress windows (three of them were missing the screens).
Were all three, Chris, Jim and Nikki, as well as the children, in the basement when Shanann arrived home at 1:48 a.m.? Did those three try to convince Shanann that Jim and Nikki were a couple, and not Chris and Nikki, and did Shanann call them out on their obvious affair and say to the three of them, "Fuck you, and fuck you, and fuck you"?
Chris' Apple Watch didn’t show stair climbing when he would have been at the Cervi site disposing of the childrens' bodies. He would have had to climb the stairs to the catwalk at least once to put the girls in the tanks. This mean he not wearing his watch, yet it showed activity. So, how did the girls get up those stairs and in those tanks if he didn’t do it?
August 13, 2018
1500 hours: Kessinger clocked out of work (pg 331, 506) after not having clocked in.
1545 hours: Kessinger got a text from Chris about his family being gone and asked her to call him (pg 331, 506).
1600 hours: Kessinger called Chris at his request (pg 506).
1701 hours: Kessinger made two unanswered calls to Watts.
1705 hours: Watts called Chase Bank and held a nearly two minute conversation. He called a separate number for Chase moments later and held a two and a half minute conversation.
1730 hours: Watts made an unanswered call to Kessinger.
1748 hours: Unaware of events Meadows asked if Watts drove by the 6508 Saratoga address. Completely aware of events Watts still replied, "Just did. Yup that's the exact model."
1800 hours: Following suggestions by many, Watts searched Google for hospitals near his home and makes staged phone calls to hospitals.
1823 hours: Burke asked if Watts had any luck with the hospitals and Watts said "no luck at all."
1830 hours: Meadows asked Watts if Shanann was ok, noting she has not taken part in their group text exchange about selling the house. Watts replied, "She hasn't been around all day. It's very odd."
1852 hours: Watts told Samantha Paisley, aka Sam: "I'm praying so hard. I'm sick to my stomach. Cops searched the house up and down and drilled me pretty hard. I have no idea where they could be." Sam asked why the police were "drilling him." An hour later Watts explained, "They are just being thorough. They gotta do all the digging they can. I saw them this morning. Yea people are helping me search. You don't need to get on a plane. We have a lot of support here."
1900 hours: Watts received a calendar notice titled, "Dinner with Shanann." Shanann had a similar entry, "Dinner with Chris", but scheduled for an hour later.
2112 hours: A line at the Frederick Police Department called Watts and held a six minute conversation. Officer James called Chris to follow up. Chris told Officer James he has not cheated but that Shanann may be seeing someone else. Chris provided Officer James with contact info for friends (pg 13).
2148 hours: Chris called Kessinger and they talked for 50 minutes (pg 479).
2309 hours: Kessinger called Watts and they talked for 51 minutes.
August 14, 2018 (discovery file PDF page 1003)
0008 hours: Chris calls Kessinger, and they spoke for 31 minutes (pg 1003).
0112 hours: Kessinger called Chris, and they spoke for 3 minutes (pg 1003).
0151 hours: Chris called Kessinger, and they spoke for 8 minutes (pg 1003).
0158 hours: Watts played phone tag with a line at the Frederick Police Department. Officer Goodman called Chris on his personal phone twice, and Chris answered but there was dead silence from his end. It could be failed attempts by Chris to do a three-way call with Kessinger.
0206 hours: Chris called Kessinger, and they spoke for 1 minute (pg 1003).
0207 hours: Chris used his work phone to call back Goodman and, at the same time, Kessinger called Chris, and the call lasted 11 minutes, which means that Kessinger was listening to Chris as he used his work phone to talk to Officer Goodman. This was the final call between Chris and Kessinger (pg 996, 503, 1003). This may have been the call where they facetimed. Chris gave Bella's height as 42 inches and weight as 40 pounds, and gave Cece's height as 37 inches and 37 pounds.
0458 hours: Sandy called Watts and held a four minute conversation.
0632 hours: Sandy called again and held a six minute conversation.
0725 hours: Watts perpetuated his fallacy, telling Sam "I'm hoping she's with someone I don't know about, because I've exhausted all the people I know of. I'm optimistic we will reunite again. People have been stopping by from time to time."
0929 hours: Watts transferred one last image into his Secret Calculator application, a semi-nude selfie of Kessinger.
1208 hours: Kessinger spent nearly four hours searching Google and the internet for Watts, news outlets, and news accounts of Shanann's disappearance.
1335 hours: Watts told Sam that an Amber Alert is not applicable to the facts as they are known presently. Watts added, "They just swept the house with dogs to pick up a scent." Watts said he has completed all his interviews with the news outlets.
1430 hours: Watts called Sandy and held a ten minute conversation.
1504 hours: Watts told Addy, "Good Morning America has contacted my sister."
1700 hours: Kessinger searched Google on topics like "can cops trace text messages" — "How long do phone companies keep text messages" — "Difference between text message content and text message detail."
1821 hours: Kessinger searched the internet for news accounts of this incident and Shanann's name. These searches were conducted frequently by Kessinger throughout the next several days. She deleted every one afterwards.
1826 hours: Watts told Nick Thayer that he was leaving now, stopping for gas and "I'll be there" [Watts had earlier agreed to spend the night at the Thayers].
1834 hours: Investigative Analyst, Jillian Ganley, received GPS data from Chris Watts work vehicle (pg 1321). Had they acted immediately on this data, they would have been able to retrieve the items that Chris threw into the dumpster on Black Mesa Road (a street in his neighborhood) just before arriving home on 8/13/2018, when he first met Officer Coonrod. They didn't investigate this stop on Black Mesa Road until August 24th.
1842 hours: Watts returned a missed call from the Fredrick Police Department. As a result of that call, Watts turned around and drove to the police deportment where he held on interview with FBI spanning 1900 hours to 2306 hours.
1859 hours: After a brief call to the Thayers, Nick advised they would drive to the police department and wait for Watts to finish.
1900 hours: Chris arrived at Frederick PD to be interviewed by FBI (pg 491, 1030-1055).
2010 hours: Watts told Dave Colon that he was talking with the FBI presently.
2042 hours: Nick Thayer told Watts: "Hey man. We are sitting outside thinking of you. I am talking to an investigator friend and she recommends maybe not to talk without a lawyer. I know this text might get there too late."
2300 hours: Chris exited Frederick PD after being interviewed (pg 318).
2304 hours: Watts added FBI agent Grahm Coder to his phone's contacts.
Note: Chris wanted to come back to work on 8/14 or 8/15 but Anadarko HR said "no" (pg 494).
August 15, 2018 (Chris would be arrested after the interrogation by Tammy Lee and Grahm Coder)
0747 hours: Watts told his father, "Text me when you land. I can pick you up."
0800 hours: CBI Agent Tammy Lee received a phone call from Anadarko Regional Manager, informing her they may have uncovered evidence Chris began a relationship with a coworker around June of 2018 (pg 513, 1321).
0903 hours: Coder sent a message to Watts, "Hey Chris, it's Grahm from last night. You call me back?" Watts made that call three minutes later.
0937 hours: Watts told Coder that his father just landed and he was "en route to pick him up."
0949 hours: Kessinger contacted detectives regarding her relationship with Chris Watts (pg 1624, 1003). She was tipped off that Anardarko had discovered emails revealing her affair with Watts, which is why she contacted the police.
1013 hours: Watts told Coder that he just picked up his dad.
1027 hours: Coder told Watts: "Swing on by the PD when you get a chance. We'll make a game plan for today." Watts answered a short call from Coder a minute later.
1100 hours: Chris arrived at the police station for an agreed upon polygraph examination (pg 511, 1156-1160).
1700 hours: Drone operator locates bed sheet, plastic bags and disturbed ground at Cervi Ranch site (pg 219).
1736 hours: An FBI agent interviewed Nicole Kessinger in the park with her dad and dog (pg 283, 330).
2245 hours: Officer Coonrod responded to Andarko oil field. CBI investigators reported collecting the the following evidence: hair from oil tank hatch, parts of a rake, and a bed sheet. They began to excavate possible burial site approximately 100 feet from the oil tanks (pg 36).
2300 hours: Located body of adult female buried in approximately 3-8” of dirt (pg 36, 424).
2302 hours: Chris is handcuffed and placed in custody (pg 28).
On August 13th, when Officer Goodman asked Chris (over the phone) about Bella and Cece's height and weight, Chris gave the exact figures for each child: Bella's height as 42 inches and weight as 40 pounds, and Cece's height as 37 inches and weight at 37 pounds.
Why would Chris know these precise measurements, especially since the children had been in North Carolina with Shanann for six weeks (photo above was taken in North Carolina), and had only returned to Colorado on August 7th, seven days earlier?
How did he know they would fit in the tanks? Shanann made a Facebook video of the “pie in the face” game where Chris stuck his head in a hole made of cardboard and the girls smacked him with a hand that pops up and covers you in pie. The diameter of the cutout is 8 inches.
Nichol Kessinger called somebody at 4:50 PM in Crestone, Colorado, on July 21, 2018 (her Verizon phone records above). This was the day she and Chris (and possibly Jim) "carpooled" to Bandimere Speedway.
According to Watts family friend and Chris Watts penpal, Shannon:
The rise of Mysticism, withcraft and paganism in Colorado, along with the rise of marijuana use, is detailed in the video below by Jewels of thought. In Crestone, there are problems with dark witches, associated more with satanism. The moon plays heavily in this witchcraft.
"If finger nails scratching slowly down a chalkboard had a voice, it would be hers. She really is quite proud of herself for being this 'amazing' women with a perfect credit score. The day after they were murdered, NK searched how much Amber Frey got for a book deal: no way she would have searched that if she didn’t KNOW they were dead. NK gave this interview on the same day that CW, later in the day, confessed but NK didn’t know this when she was talking to them."
In the video below, the two women on the left, Vanessa and Theresa, of Unmasked, are former friends of Jamie Watts. They both said they had no contact with Ronnie Watts or Cindy Watts, and they fell out with Jamie in October/November of 2020. The two women on the right were friends with both the Watts and Chris Watts. Shannon, the lady bottom right, had more contact with Chris than Sheri Ann, the lady top right. These two are also no longer in contact with the Watts or Chris Watts.
On August 6th, after nutgate, Jamie gave oxy to Chris (49-minute mark) in North Carolina (59-minute mark). In North Carolina, Chris tried to kill Shanann with an overdose of oxy and blame Shanann for the overdose (33-minute mark in video above). Chris decided at the beach in North Carolina that the children also had to be killed. Jamie runs a den of vipers. The Watts have everyone do their dirty work and then don't hesitate to throw them under the bus. They also don't care if they put people in danger in the process. The Watts are worried that their involvement may come out, as far as maybe pushing Chris or encouraging him. What really happened to the children must have been much worse than the story Chris told in his 2019 Dodge prison confession (56-minute mark). Chris tries to paint himself a "good guy" by taking the plea to spare the Rzuceks of the details, but it really probably was to cover up/ protect his own family. And this is what he means by taking shit to his grave. Jamie gave Chris the oxycodone and then hid a letter from Chris that implied Shanann might kill him and the kids, which she hid until after his plea deal and sentencing. Do the math.
August 16, 2018
1203 hours: Chris is transferred to jail (pg 28).
1210 hours: Shanann’s body is removed from the burial site (pg 36).
1530 hours: First oil tank is entered. Celeste’s body is removed (pg 37).
1730 hours: Second oil take is entered. Bella’s body is removed (pg 37).
2212 hours: Search warrant executed at Watts home (pg 40).
0000 hours: Kessinger is interviewed at Thornton PD (pg 474).
August 17, 2018
1051 hours: Phone interview with Nichol Kessinger.
0000 hours: Phone interview with Nichol Kessinger and CBI (pg 479).
August 19, 2018
Kessinger searched the internet on topics related to Amber Frey, the mistress of Scott Peterson. Her searches included Frey's book deal, her net worth, and "did people hate Amber Frey.''
August 21, 2018
1845 hours: Phone interview with Nichol Kessinger.
August 24, 2018
0000 hours: Officer Manley met with the general contractor overseeing construction site at Black Mesa Road. Advised they have reason to believe Chris Watts stopped there for several minutes. Contractor advised trash was removed on August 16th and taken to land fill (pg 125).
September 4, 2018
1300 hours: Kessinger provided law enforcement with typed document providing additional information about her recollections regarding Chris Watts (pg 941).
September 17, 2018
0947 hours: Kessinger provided phone statement to LE which included the dates 8/13 and 8/14 (pg 996).
Crestone, Colorado, which was founded by globalist Maurice Strong, is located near the Great Sand Dunes National Park, where NK and Chris would spent the following weekend (July 28-29, 2018).
Crestone has been described as a creepy cult town known for "new age spirituality" plus dark witchcraft, drum circles, heavy drug use, etc.
The sand dunes and camping trip (where they spent a lot of time naked with about a group of a dozen people, per Cheryln Cadle) was pivotal to Chris: something happened that weekend to mark "the beginning of the end for him." He had a hard time with the first anniversary of that weekend. Maybe he met people he didn't want to meet. He keeps saying that he should have gone to the football game with Jeremy Lindstrom and not the Lazy Dog with NK on Saturday, August 11th. Shannon believes that on Saturday with Nikki is when the murders were planned. This is why NK can't remember what they talked about on Saturday or during the 111-minute phone call on Sunday night. Did NK give Chris an ultimatum: it's either me or her, and this is what you've got to do, and you've got to get things in order. Both NK and CW say they can't remember what they talked about on Saturday or Sunday. Shannon thinks it was when the murder was planned because a lot of steps were taken, preparation for the girls beforehand. Shannon says Chris is still in love with NK, and he doesn't seem to have any emotion or remorse regarding Shanann. He told Shannon that the one-year anniversary of her death was the first time he cried for Shanann.
Possibly the most out-there part of Crestone is the Crestone End-Of-Life Project, a committee dedicated to helping people explore alternative end of life plans. The committee holds “death cafes” and “end-or-life workshops,” meetings for people to openly and honestly discuss fears surrounding their death and make end of life plans. Crestone also offers a pyre, an almost extinct thing in most of the world. It is a distinct small-town with a strange proclivity for death.
Bella from Franklin, TN, wrote the following about Crestone:
"I recently went to Crestone for part of my spring break, and it was very weird. The moment my mom and I drove into town, we got this really uneasy and uncomfortable feeling. We were scared the whole time we were there. We tried to go visit the spiritual centers because we had gone there for them, but when we got up to the first one, we physically could not get out of the car. It was very freaky."
"I’ve always wondered what the purpose of that gas can was. CW kinda fumbled around explaining it in his Wisconsin interview as, 'I didn’t know most of what I was doing that morning.' Maybe he was just trying to look busy on camera putting normal objects in the back of his truck. I found it odd that he walked around to the camera side to do it when he had been putting everything in from the side that was blocked from view." - Sheikster403
"If he was gonna cause an explosion at Cervi (which I believe was the plan) he wouldn’t need the gas can. The accelerant would be the oil at the site and the ‘leak’. Too much money to pass up. He was going to kill them anyways. Might as well get $450,000 in Accidental Death Benefits from his Anadarko insurance policy on his family, plus millions in a wrongful death lawsuit against Anadarko for not having the proper security measures at Cervi after the Firestone explosion. Enough money to run off and build a new life. The gas can was just a distraction for Nate's camera. His ‘story’ in my theory: Shanann and him have an emotional conversation before he goes to work. He tells her there is another woman. He leaves. She’s at home fuming, decides to confront him at work. She can’t leave the kids alone so they come as well. She shows up at Cervi 319 looking for him, meanwhile he’s at Cervi 1029. Oil tank blows because of the ‘leak’. Boom, insurance on wife and kiddos, lawsuit against Anadarko for safety negligence causing death. Who knows, maybe he would have said she followed him there from the house or used the ‘find my iPhone’ app to locate him. He states she knew all the emails and passcodes. It would be easy. If this was the plan and it did work, he would have received millions in a lawsuit against Anadarko. An almost guaranteed wrongful death lawsuit against Anadarko for them not following through with mandatory safety protocols for their previous incompetence. No cameras, guards, secure gates, diddly squat. He would have made millions. Plus insurance on Shanann and the girls was $450,000 total." - KrystinP
atschock wrote at reddit:
It’s so frustrating that we were not provided more log/source data in the discovery files to validate this 9:10 AM alert on August 13th and any others possibly received that day, including the mysterious 12:42 PM alert, which we only learn about from Baumhover's notes but never see in any phone data.
Did CW think someone (NK) was in the house when he arrived home on August 13th? After shaking Coonrod's hand and then opening the passenger door of the Lexus and fussing around, he entered through the interior garage door and took a minute to open the front door, like he was making sure this person was gone. [He may have taken Shanann's ring from the Lexus and ran upstairs to put it on her nightstand before opening the door for Nickole Atkinson, her son, and officer Coonrod.]
That said, I think this information about the 9:10 AM alert might be false. It's either a lie that CW told NK or that NK made up herself. Unless I missed it, the only source of the information about this 9:10 AM alert is actually NK, who says that CW told her about it.
What the video shows as proof of the 9:10 AM alert is a screenshot of text from the discovery file PDF page 947/Discovery Page 1064, which was a page from the seven-page document NK generated containing notes of events she had recalled since her final meeting with SA Koback.
I can't find anywhere else in the discovery where this 9:10 AM alert is brought up — not by CW himself in any interview or by any investigator — EXCEPT for by NK's dad, in the NK interview he participated in with NK and Koback on August 16th, where he asks: “What about that 9 o’clock thing you were tellin’ me on Monday?” And NK says: “Oh, what he told me? Oh, yeah. Well, we’ll get there. We’ll get there. We’re still on Sunday night.”
The only thing close to source data we see about Vivint alerts comes from PDF page 1588/Discovery Page 1770 in the Digital Evidence Analysis/timeline sub-report of CW's personal phone.
Unfortunately, the investigator only included about 20 timeline entries starting on August 12th at 9:29 PM until August 13th 10:10 AM.
During this time, we only see one log entry for a Vivint alert, which is the 1:48 AM alert that was generated by the doorbell when SW arrived home from the airport.
Curiously missing from this time frame are the three other alerts that are alleged by CW or CW via NK to have occurred during this time frame: 5:26 AM (main floor door to basement left open at 5:16 AM, with Vivint sending an alert to CW's phone about it a 5:16 AM, after it was left open for 10 minutes — CW tells SA Tammy Lee about this on PDF pg 525), 5:27 AM (garage door left open — also from the SA Tammy Lee interview), and this 9:10 AM Vivent alert for the garage door being left open (at 9:00 AM — Vivint sends alert to CW's phone after a door is left open for 10 minutes) from NK's events document.
We do see a timeline sub-report about SW's phone in discovery, too.
Unfortunately, we were also only given a small slice of her timeline data, from August 12th at 9:36 PM to August 13th at 10:03 AM.
In this time frame, we do not see any Vivint alerts at all on her phone — including the 1:48 AM one above, which I find odd.
I really hope someone proves me wrong and finds some other source data about Vivint alerts in the discovery file, but I've been up and down that file and this is all I can find.
Based on what's in the discovery file, the 5:26 AM, 5:27 AM and 9:10 AM alerts look like they never happened.
NK would have been seen by Nate's camera going out the garage door at 9:10 AM on August 13th. It was broad daylight.
I think Chris lied to her to give the impression Shanann and the girls left on their own.
Remember, Chris thought Nate's camera was still pointed more toward the road and not right at his driveway. He was surprised at his house.
Larry Tanoury and his family's law firm have been investigating the Watts case because they believe there is a coverup of Nichol Kessinger's involvement that began with Colorado Senator Ken Buck.
Larry says that Chris Watts' lead defense attorney, John Walsh, is a relative of Kessinger.
Larry also says that Arthur Walsh was Kessinger's attorney for her name change in September 2020 (research the family relations between Arthur and John; Arthur Walsh was disbarred in December 2020).
John Walsh is pictured above (on the left), in court, with Chris Watts.
Chris Watts' undated letter #4 to Cherlyn Cadle: First night in Weld County jail, I had a vision of my grandparents and realized I did have a demon inside me. My attorney team treated me not like a client, but a friend.His case never would have made it to trial had Chris Watts decided not to take
the plea deal because he would have ended up dead in his cell, and they
probably would have claimed it was suicide. Chris was under duress when he
took the plea deal. He likely was being threatened, and his lawyers
would have known this. His lead lawyer, John Walsh, apparently is a
relative of Nichol Kessinger. Did Chris know this at the time of his plea deal?
Kessinger probably opened the LLC (image above) to funnel the money they thought they’d get by blowing up Cervi 319 (and possibly blaming it on Shanann), but their plans were interrupted: first, by Shanann's plane being three hours late, then they didn't realize until after 8 AM on 8/13/2018 that Shanann had changed the passcode to her iPhone, and, finally, Nickole Atkinson called the cops to the Watts home after showing up at the house around noon on murder Monday (Chris wanted to return to work on Monday and Tuesday but Anadarko forbid him from doing so; he was interrogated for the murders starting on Wednesday morning and arrested for the murders by midnight that day and subsequently fired from Anadarko).
Conflicts of Interest
It is crucial that the defense attorney is diligent and zealous in advocating on behalf of her client. Any conflict of interest that creates an incentive for the defense attorney to undertake representation that is anything less than zealous should be avoided.
Conflicts of Interest are often analyzed by examining whether the conflict would harm the defendant's right to counsel.
If the criminal defense attorney represents a client and the defense attorney has an existing conflict of interest, the client may later have an action against the attorney for malpractice or ineffective assistance of counsel
Conflicts are a serious concern for criminal defense lawyers. They frequently occur in large criminal defense firms and public defender offices where the sheer number of cases increases the likelihood that a conflict will occur.
If one lawyer has a conflict of interest, that conflict may extend to other lawyers in the firm. Thus, two attorneys in one criminal defense practice should not represent adverse clients. Similarly, public defender offices do not represent generally co-defendants. Instead, a panel of "conflicts attorneys" appointed by the court will take these cases. If the jurisdiction is large enough they may even have two separate public defender offices set up to take conflicts.
Conflict is Raised Prior to or During Trial
A conflict if interest can be raised by the defendant or any other party at trial including the prosecutor or even, in theory, the judge. In thise case, the judge will examine the conflict to determine whether a conflict of interest potentially exists.
A potential conflict is one in which there is a significant risk that representation of the client will be materially limited by the criminal defense lawyers representation of a co-defendant, former client, third person, or personal interest.
Conflict is Raised After Trial
In many cases a conflict of interest will not be discovered until the defendant has already been convicted at trial.
In this case, the judge will examine the conflict to determine whether a conflict of interest actually existed.
A conflict of interest can be raised on direct appeal or by any method of collateral review such as habeas corpus.
- Co-defendants - A conflict of interest actually exists when one criminal defense attorney represents two co-defendants who have adverse interests. As a practical matter it is possible that one attorney can represent multiple defendants on the same charge. However, in practice this is very difficult.
- Violation of Duty of Loyalty - A gross violation of the duty of loyalty may create an actual conflict of interest. In one case a conflict was found when the defense attorney informed the court that his client intended to commit perjury after the client informed him during a confidential interview that he was thinking of committing perjury.
Waiver
In some cases both potential and actual conflicts of interest may be waived by the defendant if the defendant provides informed and written consent to the conflict.
The trial court has discretion in determining whether a conflict of interest is, or is not, waivable.
http://defensewiki.ibj.org/index.php/Conflicts_of_Interest
CRIME AND JUSTICE WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD
Aired October 4, 2018
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST, HLN CRIME AND JUSTICE: Good evening, everyone, I am Ashleigh Banfield. This is "Crime and Justice."
And tonight the darkest developments since Chris Watts was put in handcuffs, accused of killing his wife and daughters and dumping their bodies at his work site and then telling everyone they were missing. The formerly heroic family man has spent the last weeks in jail, solitary, all alone, 23 hours a day.
But today, Chris Watts got to venture out to the phone banks, because today Chris Watts had a very important call. And on the other end of that call the brother and the parents of the dead pregnant wife Chris Watts allegedly confessed to strangling. The uncle and the grandparents of the dead little girls, police say he submerged in the oil tank. No doubt that uncle and those grandparents had some choice words for their inmate of an in-law, but today the conversation may have been limited. Because they have something specific to sort out. They had something urgent.
Joining me now live, "Crime and Justice," producer, Kyle Peltz. Kyle, the notion that this family after all they have gone through trying to deal with the reality of losing their daughter, their granddaughters, burying them in North Carolina, found themselves in a phone call. The first confrontation with Chris Watts since they lost Shanann.
KYLE PELTZ, CRIME AND JUSTICE PRODUCER: That was the big question today, we knew they have a phone call scheduled with Chris Watts himself actually be on that call? He dialed in today from the Weld County Jail with his attorney sitting right beside him.
BANFIELD: So he has two attorneys for murder case his and the D.A. has been very clear to us, hey, this probate issue that has been launched by Shanann's family. This is not a part of the criminal case. This is not a part of the D.A.'s office, this is a civil matter separate from us and yet both of those attorneys and the D.A., himself, were involved in this phone call. How were they all placed? Who was where and why?
PELTZ: That is right, you said that the D.A. for a long time has been saying, hey, this is a civil case, not a criminal. We have nothing to do with that, but the prosecutor, himself, was actually in court today.
BANFIELD: Michael Rourke.
PELTZ: Michael Rourke.
BANFIELD: In court.
PELTZ: In court. Although it seems he was there as a visitor, he was in the courtroom gallery as was another one of Chris Watts' defense attorney.
BANFIELD: John Walsh?
PELTZ: John Walsh, yes.
BANFIELD: So, John Walsh and his other defense attorney for the criminal case, Kate Herald, of course, they are involved in defending him against these murder charges, the nine felonies that he is faced with. But Kate Herald somehow was in the jail seated beside Chris Watts on this phone call with the family and his other attorney, and the big cheese himself, Michael Rourke, was sitting in the gallery in the courtroom, presumably on speaker phone with the Judge.
PELTZ: Exactly, Kate Herald was right there with Chris. As you said, she is the one tasked with defending him in this murder case, one of his attorneys in the courtroom.
BANFIELD: So, he gets on the phone, on the other ends, invited to be a part of this call, critically is Shanann's father, that is Frank, you can see on the list of people involve here. Critically, Frank Rzucek, the father of the murdered pregnant wife of Chis Watts, is on that phone call. He is the one petitioning to say, I want to be Shanann's personal representative in all of the affairs of her estate; I want to be that person. That point person.
Sandy Rzucek, his wife, Shanann's mom also invited to be on the call. Frankie Rzucek, Shanann's brother and you know, by all accounts best friend on the call as well. And then you can you see all the lawyers that we just talked about? Do we know if that family, if Frank Senior or Sandy or Frank Jr. who has known to be very outspoken of what he thinks of Chris Watts on Facebook? Do we know if they spoke to him?
PELTZ: We have no idea who spoke on that call. And a big question, too, is did Chris even utter a word on that call or were his attorneys talking for him? We don't know. But it is pretty — it had have been pretty chilling and very uncomfortable for that family if Chris Watts was speaking.
BANFIELD: And they knew. They were privy to know who was on the call. So, when they were dialing in, they were allowed to know that he just might be there, he might be standing by. They might hear his voice. And who knows, like you said, the information is limited. We do know this was scheduled to be one full hour, this emergency probate hearing. One full hour. What was it actually?
PELTZ: It was, I have the exact time here, 10 minutes and 40 second is how long this hearing lasted.
BANFIELD: What did they ask? What do they do in 10 minutes and 40 seconds? What was asked and answered?
PELTZ: Well, exactly, normally, I mean, 10 minutes and 40 seconds would yield pages of pages of transcripts of what happen. I will hold it up for the camera here, this is the page we got today, half page of notes on what happened in court. No specifics other than who was on the call, and the final outcome of this request.
BANFIELD: I am assuming, though, that since this was a request by the family of Shanann to, you know, to take over the representation of her estate. That the judge would have had to ask, do you oppose this? At the very least, maybe we don't have it in prose, that exact sentence. But do we know if there was an answer to that question?
PELTZ: There was an answer. It said no one opposed, and Chris Watts did not oppose.
BANFIELD: We don't know if he spoke those words or his representatives spoke the words for him.
PELTZ: Right that is not clear.
BANFIELD: It's bizarre, though, if he wanted to be on that call, his lawyer could have been on that call from her office.
PELTZ: Exactly.
BANFIELD: He wanted to be on that call. Arrange would had been made with Weld County Jail to get him out of that cell, where he sits rotting 23 hours a day, except for that one hour he gets — the hour out room. Why would he want to be on it, if he wasn't going to speak?
PELTZ: Exactly.
BANFIELD: So, what else do we know, about the actual estate issues? Because it seemed like this was pressing. This was something called an emergency hearing, which needed to be done right away. What was the rush?
PELTZ: Well, we know Shanann's father mentioned life insurance as one of those reasons, and her car.
BANFIELD: And that is interesting. Because it's her car and there's his car. And they both on Facebook had you know, uttered that — that it belonged to Shanann at some point. I think Shanann had mentioned it, well, it's my truck, actually. So now do we know what car? Was it the Lexus or was it the truck that was towed off for evidence?
PELTZ: Right, we are thinking it was probably Shanann's Lexus that she recently got. But as you mentioned, they also had Chris' truck. By Chris own allege admission to the police that is the truck he used to cart their bodies to their final burial site.
BANFIELD: You know, I think a lot of times, when we discussed this truck. You see the pictures of it being taken away on a flatbed into evidence, that if you read the fine, you know, in between the words and the arrest affidavit, they say that those bodies, I had assumed the bodies were in the bed, in the back of the truck. They were actually in the back seat. That all three bodies were put in the back seat of that truck. It's so sad to see this happening. You know in the darkness of night, I presume this was the Wednesday night they pulled him in and charged him with murder. And then just hauled away that truck as evidence that those bodies were in the back seat. And we don't know how long that truck is going to actually be held as evidence, do we?
PELTZ: No, we don't know.
BANFIELD: By the way, I just saw 11:39 on the back window. Maybe I didn't notice it before, but it certainly looks to be a fleet number. Almost like, there is an 1139, the number 1139 in the back window at the driver's side, you will probably see that in a moment. That image will flash in a moment, but that makes me wonder if this didn't belong to them at all.
PELTZ: Right.
BANFIELD: That this actually belonged to Anadarko. They kept calling it Chris's work truck, even the police called it Chris's work truck. And we wondered, what does that mean? There it is, 1139 right there. If that is your personal truck. Would you have an 1139 — would you have a number? A four digit number on the window?
PELTZ: That is a good question. We had been asking who this truck belonged to, pretty much since the beginning of the case, and have not gotten a clear answer on it. But it may be very well have been Anadarko's truck or it could had been Chris and Shanann's.
BANFIELD: I have worked for plenty of companies that have a fleet. Cameramen all have a van or some kind of a vehicle. There is often a number, I think any of us out there, if you work for a company that has company vehicles, typically, there is a number.
I'm just noticing this literally live as we are speaking for the first time. But I can only presume, Kyle, that maybe it doesn't pertain to this truck. Maybe this hearing where they say there is a car and there is life insurance pertains to that Lexus. And she had talked about that Lexus. She had talked openly about how proud she was about Lexus on her Facebook.
PELTZ: Right. She was getting money from her company to make those car payments, because I guess the level that she was there, but yes, she was very proud of that vehicle.
BANFIELD: You know I want to bring in Kirk Nurmi, Kirk is a defense attorney and he is also the former attorney for Jody Arias. That is why Kirk's name is often very familiar to us. Kirk, thank you for being with us today. I will talk to you a lot about preparing the ultimate defense for a guy like this who seems to be pretty hated for the fact pattern that we know of or at least the police allege he has confessed to, but right now, I want you to tell me a little about this probate hearing.
We never cover these things. Probate is boring. It just goes right under the radar. But this is different.
They were on the phone with the now accused of killing their daughter and their grandchildren and the brother listening to his in-law possibly speaking. Can you help shed any light on what that call might have been like and fill in the lines that they didn't write on that document Kyle just showed?
KIRK NURMI, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR JODI ARIAS: Well, Ashleigh, it's great to be with you. I think in temps of that document, obviously, I think there was a lot of things that were left out of that do you mean. Probably a lot of thing unsaid by both parties that want to be said. But I'm sure though
his defense attorneys were there to make sure that things didn't go off the rail, that emotions didn't get the better of him, and that he didn't sabotage his criminal case in some way by saying something out of emotion.
his defense attorneys were there to make sure that things didn't go off the rail, that emotions didn't get the better of him, and that he didn't sabotage his criminal case in some way by saying something out of emotion.
BANFIELD: And then would you also assume, Kirk, that it's not strange that we saw, in black and white, that the D.A. himself attended this hearing? Sat in the gallery? And that his other criminal defense attorney, his other public defender who seems to be lead chair at least at this point, John Walsh, was also seated in the gallery in the courtroom while Chris' second defense attorney was in the jail with him. Does that seem strange to you? Or were they all just waiting for any utterance of any kind?
NURMI: I think they were waiting for any utterance of any kind. But keep in mind, too, Ashleigh, Mr. Watts is really under a microscope right now. Because it's the D.A. that is going to decide whether or not he wants to charge Mr. Watts with death. He wants to seek the death penalty. So he is going to go in, any opportunity he had to go in, and evaluate Mr. Watts' demeanor, how he acts in order to make that evaluation to decide, Do I want to charge this man with death?
BANFIELD: So let me ask you this. And again, probate is typically so pro forma. It's just you know, it's boiler plate and one of those boiler plate questions really turned out to be not to be boiler plate at all. It turned out to be very, very sad. That question was, does the decedent Shanann have any surviving children or descendants. And they had to check that box no. Kirk, do you have any idea whether they would have read that in you know, open court, over that phone line so that Chris would have to digest that moment?
NURMI: I really don't know. I have not done probate, myself. But my guess would be that would be a part of the record in terms of the formalities that were made in court, to lay down that record. To make sure that record was full and complete.
BANFIELD: Kirk, stand by for a moment. I want to bring in Bonnie Bowles. Because you just mentioned it, probate is unique. And Bonnie happens to be an estate probate attorney and in Colorado, too, so you know, a thing or two about this. Not only that, you are a personal family attorney and a
family wealth planning institute. So, Bonnie, tell me about this, like normally boring, perfunctory kind of hearing, it was scheduled for an hour, it ended up in ten minutes, does that all sound normal or did something go off?
family wealth planning institute. So, Bonnie, tell me about this, like normally boring, perfunctory kind of hearing, it was scheduled for an hour, it ended up in ten minutes, does that all sound normal or did something go off?
BONNIE BOWLES, ESTATE AND PROBATE ATTORNEY: Hi, Ashleigh, it's great to be with you. I would actually consider a 10-minute hearing probably normal for what they were discussing today. The petition that Frank Sr. filed is for both to have him appointed as personal representative, which is what was discussed today as well as determine Shanann's heirs. And that, from what I can tell, especially from the fact that the hearing was only 10 minutes, was not discussed today.
So I don't think that question about did Shanann leave any surviving children would have been asked in open court today, but I do anticipate there is going to be a future hearing to determine who her heirs are.
BANFIELD: That is what becomes so fascinating here. Because typically if you're entire family is wiped out, that surviving family member or spouse would end up being the beneficiary. And listen, it doesn't matter what you think. Shanann didn't leave a will. And so the state kicks in. Given that, Bonnie, Shanann didn't leave a will. Does that mean instantly the state says, the surviving spouse gets everything?
BOWLES: Well, that is what the probate code says. However, there is another statute, called the slayer statute. Does that clarify?
Listen, if you are inheriting, but you are the one who cause the fact that the inheritance is even happening, then you don't get to financially profit from the estate anymore.
Even though, Chris, in normal circumstance, would have been considered the sole heir of Shanann's estate, if that statute kicks in, which would be the case if he is found to be convicted.
That means he is treated as if he pre deceased her, and then the statute says, OK, then if she left any surviving children. They're not the heirs; we know that is not the case [because they too are deceased]. So then it goes to her parents in equal shares.
BANFIELD: And would they have to actually start the statute? Would they have to take any kind of action to get the slayer statute into play or does it automatically happen?
BOWLES: So it would need to be alleged in a motion to have the judge determine what's called her intesstate heirs, and it means passed away without a will. So we're looking at Colorado statute.
BANFIELD: So they need a lawyer, they need a lawyer, they need somebody to advise them as to how to sort of get that ball rolling. One quick question, and I just got this, Bonnie, it's really interesting. It's the quit claim deed on their house, that house on Saratoga Trail, we have been seeing in the pictures. It's a beautiful home outside and inside. It's fairly new. Just a few-years-old. It's in a brand new development. And it was worth upwards of I think $400,000. That is a lot of money. It says that the deed is made between Christopher Lee Watts and the County of Weld and the state of Colorado, grantors, and Christopher Lee Watts and Shanann Watts as joint tenants. That effectively means they owned the house together, correct?
BOWLES: Correct. He essentially gifted his half to her when he signed that deed.
BANFIELD: So, well, help me out there. He gifted his half to her? Meaning she owns this house, by the state?
BOWLES: No, he gifted half of what they own in that house to her. Yes.
BANFIELD: So we're still at the same spot here, where it is half and half and one-half is deceased.
And now we need to decide this state needs to decide if the other half caused that death and, therefore is not privy to the benefits of Shanann.
And if that is the case, then you would need a conviction? You'd have to wait right through the whole process to a conviction, correct?
BOWLES: Yes, that is what the statute says. It uses the word convicted.
Now, what is very, very interesting about that deed it says that they are joint tenants. Now, again, under normal circumstances, what that word would mean or that phrase, joint tenants, is that Chris would inherit Shanann's half automatically without the probate court involved whatsoever if she passed away before him.
Now, because we're in a situation where potentially he was the cause of the fact that he'd be receiving her half, pursuant to the phrase joint tenants, now a question is raised as to whether he can actually receive that by way of that phrase on the deed.
And so I've actually dealt with a probate case here in Denver, where it was a similar scenario, wife killed husband or was accused of killing him. They own the home as joint tenants, and when her family went to try to sell the home to support their minor children, financially, the title company refused to move forward until that half was clarified in the courts.
BANFIELD: I guess it's also dry until you realize what the stakes are here. Because there are plenty of people, very angry about the notion that a man facing this heinous crime, could be the, you know, could inherit everything. And so it's fascinating to hear how you put it and how probate lists it out and the fight that actually has to ensue.
Hold that thought for a moment, Bonnie, if you will, because there is also a lot of noise being made right now about whether, in fact, the police have enough evidence to be able to convict him. How can anybody possibly know?
We are seven weeks into what could be a year's long case. And not only that, what about that alleged confession? Is there any way that could be tossed out? Those questions next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three counts of murder in the first degree.
One count naming Shanann Watts. One count, naming Bella, one count naming Celeste.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chris Watts is alone 23 hours a day.
WATTS: I need to see everybody again. This house is not complete with anybody here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He never once cried.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I look at my little girl asleep. I don't know how anybody can do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: There are two sides to this story. One side explains why Chris Watts is in jail facing five counts of first degree murder with police saying he killed his whole family. And his news stories rise to the surface like the stories about Chris' alleged affairs.
That side of the story starts sounding worse and worse for him, but the other side of the story is the one police allegedly heard from Chris, himself, when they brought him in for questioning. Not Chris Watts the killer, but Chris Watts the caring dad, who says he witnessed a nightmare. His own wife strangling their beautiful daughters and was forced to do something about it, himself.
The police just did not buy that for a moment. And that is why he is sitting in the courtroom in orange in this picture. And if he ends up in a courtroom at the end of this process for a trial, a jury may not buy that story either, but all of it could come down to just one juror. One, thinking maybe. Maybe, maybe his story is possible.
Joining me now defense attorney and the man who was tasked with defending Jody Arias.
Kirk Nurmi, he wrote a book about the experience that just about sums it up: Trapped with Miss Arias.
Kirk, I want to ask you, what it is like when you are tasked with defending someone who is not likable. Jodi was not likable. You said it yourself, nine days out of 10, you didn't like Jodi Arias. Those were your words, and this man is not likable mostly because he got up in front of the television cameras the day after the death and told everyone that his family was missing. Only days later, he would say he buried them. So what is it like to be task with defending someone everyone hates?
NURMI: Well, as you say, though, it's not a matter of liking him. How you feel about him personally doesn't really factor into it. I use the analogy of a surgeon doing a surgery on some of the contents to the E.R. You don't assess their background on whether you like them when you do it. You go to work, you focus on their legal interests. And that is what you are there to protect as best as you can, so the animosity outside of the courtroom is something that you do your best to ignore.
BANFIELD: I know that you are not privy to the discovery in the case against Chris Watts; the defenders of Chris Watts only just got it, and I think some of it the other day.
So there is a lot that we don't know in this case. It's a little difficult for me to ask you to be an armchair quarterback in this. With what you do know, do you have any idea of how you would tackle this, I think fair to say uphill battle?
NURMI: Well, obviously, like you said, there is a lot of factors we don't know, regarding the autopsy, maybe the text messages, things that were found on their phone. But given that Colorado does have the death penalty and given the inherent just abhorrent behavior involved in this case — as with the case with any murder — but we're also talking about a man possibly killing his two children, I would be looking at trying to plea this case out before it ever made its why to a courtroom, trying to make sure that the death penalty was off the table and justice was served and working with that county attorney to try to resolve things in that manner.
BANFIELD: So you are way better at this than I am. I am just on TV. And you actually have a law degree. I have to beg to differ on this. Because it looks to me, with this fact pattern that he allegedly, if you believe the police version of the affidavit, he confessed to them. He gave them his fact pattern. That he witnessed his wife strangling two kids. He jumped in a rage and killed her. If you can get one juror to believe that, then I think as I've heard it, you can get that intent reduced to recklessness or criminal negligence, because he was in defense of others. Now, that changes the entire ball game here. That doesn't mean you will just spend life in prison. That actually means you could get out with just manslaughter and maybe just 10 years. Am I wrong?
NURMI: Well, are you not wrong, but you're thinking, from Mr. Watts' perspective, would be a bit wishful. When you go in front of a jury, and you have the kind of fact pattern that you have, the reasonable doubt that you have is lesser. It is decreased. We're talking about a dad killing his own children. So he is already going to be looked at with rightfully skeptical eyes. We also already have inconsistent stories here. So, yes, the jury would have to believe it, but it depends on what the contradiction, what could be lost if you go to trial. Could it be his entire life or could it in fact be lethal injection? That is the calculus that has to be done. Because I think the likelihood of this being proven, his story being proven, this manslaughter-related story is probably pretty unlikely.
BANFIELD: Well, I would agree with you, except for, because I feel like I'm a reasonable person. I feel like I'd be a good juror because I am reasonable and I know the definition reasonable doubt.
But I've also covered cases where I could not believe the level of irrationality when it came to determining that doubt. I'm talking about Casey Anthony. That one was to me looked like a layup. I'm talking about O.J. That looked like a layup, too.
I can sit here for the next two hours and look at cases that look like layups. And yet one juror, one juror thought, I don't know, maybe, could be, and that's why I say, if you are stubborn, if you are pig headed about it, couldn't a Chris Watts look right back at his attorneys and say, I'm going for it?
KIRK NURMI, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR JODI ARIAS: You bet. I mean, ultimately the only thing the the attorney can do is advise him. The attorney could say, here's how it's going to look, here's what the autopsy showed, here's what the state is going to present, you know what's on your phone, you know what was on your Facebook. Do you want to take that chance of the contrasting consequence?
And ultimately all the attorney can do is advise. They can't twist a client's arm. They can't do anything. They say this is the fact, this is what I think will happen. And it's up to Mr. Watts to say, he can look them still in the eye and say, I don't care, I want to go to trial, I'm innocent, I want to testify, I can prove I'm innocent, what have you?
It is entirely up to him. And we don't know the kind of advice the lawyers are giving him. But I can guess they'd be looking at trying to resolve this case short of going to trial, especially if the death penalty is on the table.
BANFIELD: So one big question for you. And I thought I knew right away what your answer was going to be because almost every case that has an alleged confession, the lawyers start right away by trying to suppress it. Figure out a way to get that nasty little thing out of the case so that
really big ball of ugliness isn't facing down your client through that trial. And you disagree, you think that will be just about the worst thing that Chris Watts could do, get rid of that confession. Why?
NURMI: Well, it depends on the ultimate situation, the ultimate defense. But if he is arguing a manslaughter situation, if he is looking to show that he wasn't guilty of first degree murder, you say, OK, he made this admission. It was clearly against his interest, ladies and gentlemen of the jury. Because it was true, therefore, convict him of this crime, not the other. And think about what that would mean in terms of a defense and an outcome.
That would be one count of manslaughter and the count of wrongful termination of a pregnancy, as opposed to three counts of first degree murder. That it would be a much different scenario.
So, the confession is actually a lot more favorable than the possible outcomes that Mr. Watts can face at trial.
BANFIELD: So fascinating. I think you are right, absolutely right. If that confession isn't there, all you're left with is a guy who's going to point a finger at some boogeyman, who then cleaned up the mess of the boogeyman. You are right. It doesn't make sense. You kind of have to have some of those facts that are obvious figured out.
By the way, were you a public defender for Jodi? Did you ultimately end up being a public defender for Jodi?
NURMI: Yeah, sure. I was assigned the case in 2009 when I worked as a public defender. By the time 2013 rolled around, I was on my own but the court had ordered that I still keep the case while I am in private practice.
BANFIELD: I remember that. Thank you for that. Because some of the best attorneys in this country, I will say this, early and often, are public defenders. Public defenders are unbelievably hardworking, unbelievably skilled. They do some of the best work in our system of jurisprudence.
But being a public defender also comes with its challenges. But what about when your defendant might have a trial that's grabbing the attention and the headlines all around the nation? What kind of hurdles does a defense attorney face then when it is all so unbearably public? That's next.
BANFIELD: When your client lies and lies and lies and lies outwardly to everyone, oh, and has an affair with someone at work, he is understandably hated by a lot of people watching the case. But how do you avoid being guilty by association and being hated, too, for representing him?
Kirk Nurmi joins me again. Kirk, it is no secret, but in representing Jodi Arias, you got death threats.
NURMI: I did, indeed. I mean, there is fundamental misconception that defense attorneys and public defenders are there because they believe and support their client as opposed to believing in the constitutional rights that's afforded everyone and that motivates a lot of anger in people with that misunderstanding.
BANFIELD: Well, I certainly hope that Kate Herold and John Walsh are not receiving any of this kind of attention. It is appalling to think that by standing up for the United States constitution and giving everyone their God-given right to a defense, they are somehow doing something wrong.
It's why we're not Iraq. It's why we are not a lot of places that can just hood you and throw you in the (INAUDIBLE). And that's justice. It's why we are, I believe, better beings, because people like you do that kind of work. So hats off to you.
Quick question for you. How long is this going to take? I think some people have felt like, well, justice will be next spring. It's not like that. Your client, I think, murdered in '08 and was convicted in 2013. And by my math, which is limited, that's five years. That is a long process.
Do you expect that for Chris Watts?
NURMI: Well, it's hard to say. One of the things that I think is looming over this case like a cloud is the spectre of the death penalty. If the state of Colorado decides to seek the death penalty against Mr. Watts, the time of this case will drag on, because then those defense attorneys will have to investigate his life from birth, conception, really, all the way up to the day of sentencing. So, that puts things on a different time frame.
There were a lot of variables and areas that I don't want to go into, why this took so long. But, yes, certainly, two years is not unheard of when we talk about a death penalty case, if it goes to trial.
BANFIELD: And that's — I think that's quick. Two years for a death penalty. And we don't know if it's the death penalty yet. He still got plenty of time down the road, the D.A. to determine that.
So I know that your modus operandi for dealing with a case like this is just head down, do the work, try to avoid the headlines, try to stay out of the spotlight.
Do you think that was at play today on that telephone call when Chris Watts simply ceded the probate control over to Shanann Watts' dad? No opposition, no nothing. Is that a part of the strategy?
NURMI: Well that would be my assumption. If I was his criminal defense lawyer, I would be advising him to do just that, to say very little, to understand who is watching him, particularly the D.A. that is making that decision, and understand, telling Mr. Watts that even fighting this battle is a losing effort and he's better served keeping his mouth shut, taking his medicine as it relates to this, and focusing on his criminal case.
BANFIELD: So one of the most damaging aspects to Chris Watts' case is what he did in front of television cameras, effectively hours after his wife went quote/unquote missing. He stood on the porch and told the world, help me, help me, help me find my missing wife and kids, only later to fully concede he buried them.
Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I don't know where my kids are. I don't know where Shanann is. It's not something I could ever fathom would happen in my lifetime, and I have no inclination of where she is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Kirk, the prosecutor is going to put a big, old T.V. screen up in that courtroom, if there is a courtroom. They are going to play that for the jury and they are going to say, once a liar, always a liar. He lied then, and he is lying now. How do you get over that?
NURMI: Well, that's going to be for Mr. Watts and his attorneys to figure out. What was the explanation? Why did he do that? Was he trying to act consistent with innocence? That sort of thing. It's certainly going to be a prior inconsistent statement.
So they're going to have to offer an explanation for that to the jury as to why he would do that. Was he hiding something? Was he trying to act innocent from the manslaughter charge? What was he doing?
BANFIELD: All right. Kirk, thank you for that. If you can stand by for a moment. Shanann Watts' phone just ever present in her hand while she was doing her Facebook lives. It was like all our phones, it was with us at all times. So it begs that question: Could the phone have been recording the night of her death? If it was, what might that tell us? That's next.
BANFIELD: Some of the best questions in this extraordinary mystery actually come from you on Facebook. To that end, Nita Ann Jeanfreau asked this: Could it be that Chris Watts had his girlfriend over that weekend — This was when Shanann was away — and that he freaked out about the girls telling their mom, so he killed them?
Maybe he killed Shanann at the top of the stairs where her phone was found before she saw that her kids were missing.
Art Roderick, this is a great question for you as a former assistant director of the U.S. Marshals and CNN law enforcement agent —
ART RODERICK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST, FORMER ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, U.S. MARSHALS: Hi, Ashleigh.
BANFIELD: — analyst, rather. That does sound like it is a logical theory. And don't police have to sort of run through theories to see if the evidence fits?
RODERICK: They do. They have to run through every single theory.
In this particular case, I mean, the key part here is we have a confession. In that confession, he talks about how he sees his wife Shanann killing the two girls and he, in a fit of rage, goes up and kills her. Does that fit with a particular scenario? It doesn't.
But this is all part of the investigation. I mean, they made the arrest fairly quickly after the crime was committed, and then that means they had all this time to start putting this case together.
And I believe the next hearing is coming up November 19th, so they've been working this case all the way through and talking to everybody, peeling back the layers of his life — to figure out who he talked to, who he was having these affairs with, what conversation was he having, what type of electronic footprint does he have — in putting all that information together to make the case for the prosecution.
BANFIELD: Art, I'm going to get you to answer this next question as well. It's from Tim Leighty, and Tim asked a good one about the phone being found in that landing upstairs between the couch pillows. What if Shanann was recording on her phone and she ran through that area, that lofted area, and hid the phone right before she was killed. Evidence for the police.
Does that constitute like a dying declaration? You're always allowed to confront your accuser by our constitution, but if your accuser is dead, you can't confront your accuser. There's ways around that like dying declarations. You can use them. Would that constitute that?
RODERICK: It would, and video evidence from a deceased person has been used in the past in different murder cases. So, if that was the case, I mean, she had the wherewithal, she was always on that phone making videos and recording.
So, could that be the case? If the answer is yes, law enforcement has that phone in evidence. And if she did make a recording on there, this is going to play heavily into the prosecution of Chris Watts.
BANFIELD: So fascinating. I am still completely stumped by that phone being in the sofa pillows.
RODERICK: Right.
BANFIELD: Thank you for that, Art. Stand by for a moment. Today was such a busy day in the case of Chris Watts. He did appear before a probate judge in the form of a conference call. And also on that call, Shanann's father Frank, Shanann's brother Frankie, and Shanann's mom Sandy. The details of the harrowing call, coming up.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Another bombshell tonight.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keep the prayers coming for our family.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): The phone call no parent can prepare for.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): You will always be daddy's little girl.
BANFIELD (voice over): With her daughters and granddaughters accused killer on the other end of the line.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): You have to be sensitive towards the family because they have lost their daughter and they are devastated.
BANFIELD: Did Chris Watts speak to his in laws for the first time since police say he killed his family.
CHRIS WATTS, SUSPECTED MURDERER: We had an emotional conversation. I will leave it at that.
BANFIELD: What could he possibly have to say to them from behind bars?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's not doing well at all.
BANFIELD: As they handle what's left of Shanann's life. Shanann's father moving what appeared to be a mirror.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I guess, you know, really kind of broke my heart than make it even more real.
BANFIELD: How could Chris defend himself now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What you want to do is make sure he doesn't say anything that could be used against him.
BANFIELD: Will his lawyers try to get the alleged confession thrown out?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As Chris allegedly told police, a father that flew into a rage when he saw his wife strangling their daughters.
BANFIELD: The man who represented one of the most hated killers in the country.
JODI ANN ARIAS, CONVICTED MURDERER: This is the worst mistake of my life.
BANFIELD: Will help us hash out what could be a dark denial.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Good evening, everyone. I am Ashleigh Banfield. This is Crime and Justice. And tonight, the darkest developments since Chris Watts was put in handcuffs, accused of killing his wife and daughters, dumping their bodies at his work site, then telling everyone they were missing.
The formerly heroic family man spent seven weeks in jail, solitary, all alone, 23 hours a day.
Today, Chris Watts got to venture out to the phone banks because today Chris Watts had a very important call.
And on the other end of that call, the brother and the parents of the dead pregnant wife Chris Watts allegedly confessed to strangling.
The uncle and the grandparents of the dead little girls' police say he submerged in the oil tanks. No doubt that uncle and those grandparents had some choice words for their inmate of an in-law.
But today, the conversation may have been limited because they had something specific to sort out. They had something urgent.
Joining me live, Crime and Justice Producer Kyle Peltz. the notion that this family after all they have gone through, trying to deal with the reality of losing their daughter, their granddaughters, burying them in North Carolina, found themselves on a phone call, the first confrontation with Chris Watts since they lost Shanann.
Regarding Chris Watts, the police noted: "He seemed to smile/smirk inappropriately, displaying a lack of empathy, specifically when speaking about his children."
Excerpts from Interview of Chris Watts in Dodge Correctional Facility, February 2019
Chris: Yeah, she — I mean, it was — I had already kinda knew that, you know, using that credit card was kinda, it was —
Grahm: — was that intentional?
[Using the credit card to pay for dinner with his mistress — Shanann could see the charges and realized it didn’t add up. Based on the Discovery and texts with her friends, this really seemed to cement her feelings that Chris may be having an affair or hiding something from her. The dinner was too expensive for just him. She knew something was not right.]
Tammy: Yeah?
Chris: I had no other way to do it. Like, I had got Anadarko gift cards from, like, you know, doing good stuff at work and stuff, like, that, and I had used them all.
Grahm: Ohhh. Was part of you just, like: “Aww, screw it whatever — I don’t care. I’m using this card?”
Chris: I — I — part of me just wants to say: “Nikki could you pay for this?” (laughs). I don’t know, even, I think, from what my attorneys said, she [Nikki] even noticed I used a different card, like, a blue card, and she thought, you know, I felt comfortable enough just to use a bank account or something. I told her [Shanann] I was going to a Rockies game, and I told you [the CBI/police] I was going to a Rockies game. It felt like, you know, looking back at everything, and reading The Scripture more and more now, I can see like, ya know, God told me, like, gave me opportunities to get out. Even my friend Jeremy Lindstrom — he even invited me, cuz like it was his daughter that came and watched the kids Saturday… that Saturday night — and he was, like, “Hey, instead of going to a Rockies game you wanna go with me to a Broncos game and watch the Arizona Cardinals”? Like, in my mind it was like, you know, “Don’t.” Just say, “Hey, I can’t find a babysitter.”
Grahm: To Nikki?
Chris: Yeah. And maybe that would have been, like, you know, a light switch in my head goes off… a light switch in her head goes off… maybe just, like, goes different directions.
Grahm: Mhhmm.
Chris: That was kinda, like, my last opportunity to get out it seems like. I wish I woulda just said [to Jeremy], “Yeah, lets go!” I think that woulda just put me on a different trajectory.
[Agreeing to go with his friend Jeremy to the game instead of going out with his mistress.]
Grahm: So, then Shanann, did she actually say, “You’re never gonna see the kids again”?
Chris: She said it to me before.
Grahm: Yeah, that must be hard to hear.
Chris: Yeah, cuz she said [it] to me before she went to Arizona, cuz I wasn’t really sleeping in the bedroom — I sleeping on the couch or in the basement bed or something — and she had slammed the door, said you’re never gonna see the kids again.
[...]
Chris: I figured that out, after meeting with John [Walsh] and everybody, that she [Nikki] had met with somebody from CBI, like, on the 14th or 15th. I was, like, they were talking — oh, okay. You already knew. So, but —
[John is John Walsh, Chris' lead defense attorney and a relative of Nichol Kessinger.]
Tammy: I mean, I didn’t know how extensive it was, but yes, we knew.
Chris: Walking in there that day, just walking into that room, I knew I wasn’t walking out. Just the feeling I had walking in that room. Just the — I mean, I don’t remember if the polygraph stuff was already in there, I think it was, but it was, I knew —
Tammy: What made you do that, Chris? What made you plead guilty?
Chris: I didn’t want them to go through this for two or four years. I didn’t want my attorneys to lie for me for four years. I mean, they would have done anything I told them to do. I don’t see how they can do that — that’s what attorneys do, like they take their defendant and say, "Hey, what happened, okay we’ll go with that story." Like, I told them everything that I just told you guys, and it’s just, like, they got together [and said]: "Well, if they ever offered plea deal, would you ever want it? Just plead guilty to it?" I’m, like, "Yeah, if we can end this, end this." Back in September, I told them that.
Tammy: Really?
Chris: Yeah, but, it was way too early and prosecution was still doing their investigation, grabbing evidence and all kinds of stuff. That really wasn’t on the table. I think it was around Halloween, that’s when the prosecution went to Frank and Sandy and Frankie’s house and was talking, "If we could end this would you be open to that?" And that’s when the whole death penalty, all of that conversation, happened. I guess they were surprised that it would just be over.
Tammy: Yeah, we were all in shock, I’m not gonna lie.
Chris: Yeah, that was, like —
Tammy: It was like we were going 100 miles per hour and we hit a brick wall. That’s what it felt like to all of us, so, I mean, obviously you had more time to contemplate it then us.
Chris: I mean, I told John and Kate and Sophia and Amy if we can just stop this — I know everybody’s telling me to fight this, there’s not enough evidence for this and that. And I’m, like: “No. Honestly, this needs to end.” For Frank and everybody to have to fly back to Colorado every single time and get reminded of this — I’m sure it’s never going to go away, but to have to come and talk about it, have other people talk about it, have, you know, all three of you get on the witness stand and say what they saw, what they’ve seen, what they heard on tapes, and everything like that. I don’t want people to have to relive that over and over and over again for years. Like, if I could just end this for everybody, and there was any closure at all, they could start then instead of 2022 — that way it would only get worse, for everybody.
Tammy: So, did it have anything to do with you not having the death penalty?
Chris: No, like, honestly, when I was sitting it that cell, I felt I should die. I was listening to everybody [other prisoners] telling me, like: “Hey, if you do this and this, you can hang yourself from that cell. You can do this and that” —
Tammy: They were like telling you stuff you could do?
Chris: Yeah, that you could drown yourself in the toilet if you wanted to fill your toilet bowl up or something like that. They’ve been there a bunch of times and, at one point, I was listening to them. I was just, like, you know, I just felt, like, maybe there’s a different purpose for me somewhere. Maybe it’s here. I don’t know. I prayed to God every day that He would move me away from Colorado, like, move me away from the DOC there. They were saying there was a hit on me! They said if I was going to a DOC in Colorado I’d last a week and I’d be dead. There’s, like, the gangs and all the kind of stuff. So, I just feel like God moved me here [Dodge prison in Wisconsin] for a reason, and hopefully I can help people that way. I didn’t want my family, I didn’t want Shanann’s family and all of our friends, having to go through that because, after awhile, I knew that, like, this stuff was everywhere. And I knew all her Thrive friends and everybody... it would just... break that hole in their hearts a little bit bigger every time. I didn’t want that. I knew it would have gotten worse. I didn’t want it to get any worse than it already was.
Grahm: Did you ever think about: “Boy, you know, it could be very believable what I told them. It could be very believable that Shanann did end the girls — and so maybe if I try to convince people that — maybe if I fought with my attorneys on that — maybe I could lessen it somehow.” Did you ever think about that?
Chris: Honestly, I never thought about the story until you guys mentioned it.
Grahm: Yeah?
Chris: Yeah.
Tammy: I wondered.
Chris: I never even thought about it 'til you guys mentioned it.
Tammy: What did you think about it once it got mentioned?
Chris: Just, like, I just went with it. I knew my dad was out there, and I knew they would probably believe it because my mom and my sister just never really liked Shanann. I mean, through all this, I got letters from some of my friends, even said: “You know, when we were over your house, we could see Shanann was more of a dominant personality, and you’re always helping with the kids and everything, and you’re a great dad and everything. We could see a couple things I never saw and whatnot.” Even my best friend Mark even said, “You know, there’s always something that I didn’t really get with Shanann.” And, I’m just, like, nobody ever told me any of this stuff. But, yeah, I never thought about that story. That’s what my attorneys were going with, and then, like, I think it was probably the second week, I told them what really happened.
Tammy: What did they say after that?
Chris: They were quiet. They were writing it down. They said they wouldn’t judge me, so I told them. I told them about everything that happened. And, they, you know, appreciated it. I guess, most of the time, other defendants or their defense don’t tell them actually what happened, they just tell them: “Get me out of here, this is what happened.” But I told them what happened. I didn’t want them going... if this was going to go like anywhere in courts, I didn’t want them to be under a false pretense and get surprised. Cuz I know there were probably things that, like, you guys probably knew that, I mean, if I lied to them and just told them, “No, this is what happened,” it would have made them look, you know, foolish and stupid and just, like, unprepared. And I’m just, like, “This is what happened.” And they appreciated me telling them that so now they would be prepared. And that’s when they were saying, “If we ever went to them — the prosecution — and said, “We could end this,” would I be open to it? I’m, like, “If this could end, end it.”
Tammy: Do you feel like your lawyers were fair to you?
Chris: Yeah, they were my only human contact really. So they were almost like a guidance counsellor almost.
Tammy: Did you feel like you were driving the bus, though, with your decisions you made, or no?
Chris: Yeah, there was a lot of things I didn’t know were going on behind the scenes. Maybe there were a lot of things they never told me. Like, you know, like stuff that came out afterwards, like that whole Nikki Kissinger article in the Denver Post — they told me, like, afterwards and everything. I always felt like anything I was telling them they were fair, they were gonna do. Like, the whole taking the plea deal and everything — I told them that’s what I wanted to do. They asked me, it seems like 100 times, “Are you sure you want to do this?” Up until sentencing, I had time to back out. Before we walked into the courtroom, they were, like, “Are you sure?” I said, “Yeah, this is it.” They never told me this is what you have to do. They always just said, “This is your decision, if you want to take this further.” Even John said he had all kinds of motions written, all kinds of stuff that was really creative cuz he had never been in something like this before. He was ready to fight, and I was like: “I didn’t want you to have to do that. Not for me. Not for something that the story isn’t right…isn’t true.” It would have only gotten worse for everybody, for all three of you, for everybody that was involved in it.
Grahm: Are you still glad you did?
Chris: Yeah, I mean, I never thought I’d be in prison the rest of my life, but, like, I don’t want people to have to keep going through this every day of their lives, knowing there’s a trial hanging over their heads. I didn’t want people to have to relive it every day. Did they ever have to see the pictures? Frank and Sandy and all them?
Dave: No, they never saw them. They saw some things. They never saw anything bad — we shielded that from them.
Chris: Okay. I didn’t want them to have to see anything or hear anybody talk about… or anyone bash their daughter. Like, if some of my friends had a negative impact from her or had a description of her that didn’t match, I didn’t want them to hear that either. I didn’t want anyone to trash her memory. I wanted them to know she was a loving wife, she was beautiful, she always helped everybody else, all her friends, her Lupus friends… everybody. I don’t want anybody to take away what she did.
Tammy: We tried to get you to say that that night, do you remember that? I knew you obviously weren’t ready to say that then.
Chris: I know, I remember, after my dad left, you both came in, like, “Alright, we got most of the story, let’s get to the true story.” I just wanted to bang my head against the table.
Grahm: Well, in the end, I think you did the right thing, and even though it’s hard to hear, there’s a lot of people who thank you for what you did. I think your whole life has been thinking of others except for one, brief moment. I think you really did think of others when you made that choice. So, I personally thank you, right. It would have been hard for the three of us to go through not this hard or for everyone else, not that hard, right?
Chris: Anybody that was family or friends would have just been exponentially harder for everybody.
Kessinger probably opened the LLC (image above) to funnel the money they thought they’d get by blowing up Cervi 319 (and possibly blaming it on Shanann), but their plans were interrupted: first, by Shanann's plane being three hours late, then they didn't realize until after 8 AM on 8/13/2018 that Shanann had changed the passcode to her iPhone, and, finally, Nickole Atkinson called the cops to the Watts home after showing up at the house around noon on murder Monday (Chris wanted to return to work on Monday and Tuesday but Anadarko forbid him from doing so; he was interrogated for the murders starting on Wednesday morning and arrested for the murders by midnight that day and subsequently fired from Anadarko).
"If finger nails scratching slowly down a chalkboard had a voice, it would be hers. She really is quite proud of herself for being this 'amazing' women with a perfect credit score. The day after they were murdered, NK searched how much Amber Frey got for a book deal: no way she would have searched that if she didn’t KNOW they were dead. NK gave this interview on the same day that CW, later in the day, confessed but NK didn’t know this when she was talking to them."
Excerpts from a study of malignant narcissism
By Dr. M. Scott Peck
In the course of his career as a psychiatrist, Dr. Peck encountered several clients whose narcissism didn't quite fit the categories of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual. Although a professing Christian, Peck's purpose was not to present a biblical study of evil. Rather, he proposed evil as a diagnosis of pathology—yes, mental illness—for these people. They are not operating in the same reality as the rest of us.
The Narcissist: Unsubmitted Will
The essential psychological problem of human evil, I believe, is a particular variety of narcissism... one that particularly afflicts the will. p 80
Malignant narcissism is characterized by an unsubmitted will. All adults who are mentally healthy submit themselves one way or another to something higher than themselves, be it God or truth or love or some other ideal... They believe in what is true rather than what they would like to be true. In summary, to a greater or lesser degree, all mentally healthy individuals submit themselves to the demands of their own conscience.
Not so the evil, however... They are men and women of obviously strong will, determined to have their own way. Such people literally live "in a world of their own" in which the self reigns supreme. p 78,162
The Narcissist: Disguise and Pretense
While they seem to lack any motivation to be good, they intensely desire to appear good. Their "goodness" is all on a level of pretense. It is, in effect, a lie. That is why they are the "people of the lie". The wickedness of the evil is not committed directly, but indirectly as a part of this cover-up process. p 76
Those who are evil are masters of disguise; they are not apt to wittingly disclose their true colors—either to others or to themselves. p 104
Because they are such experts at disguise, it is seldom possible to pinpoint the maliciousness of the evil. The disguise is usually impenetrable (p 76) ... naturally, since it is designed to hide its opposite, the pretense chosen by the evil is most commonly the pretense of love. p 106
The Narcissist: Refusal to Acknowledge Sin
It is necessary that we first draw the distinction between evil and ordinary sin. It is not their sins per se that characterize evil people...The central defect of the evil is not the sin but the refusal to acknowledge it. p 69
If evil people cannot be defined by the illegality of their deeds or the magnitude of their sins, then how are we to define them? The answer is by the consistency of their sins. While usually subtle, their destructiveness is remarkably consistent. This is because those who have "crossed over the line" are characterized by their absolute refusal to tolerate the sense of their own sinfulness. p 71
The evil hate the light—the light of goodness that shows them up, the light of scrutiny that exposes them, the light of truth that penetrates their deception. p 179
Rather than blissfully lacking a sense of morality, like the sociopath, they are continually engaged in sweeping the evidence of their evil under the rug of their own consciousness. p 76
The poor in spirit do not commit evil. Evil is not committed by people who feel uncertain about their righteousness, who question their own motives, who worry about betraying themselves.
The evil in this world is committed by the spiritual fat cats, by the Pharisees of our own day, the self-righteous who think they are without sin because they are unwilling to suffer the discomfort of significant self-examination.
Unpleasant though it may be, the sense of personal sin is precisely that which keeps our sin from getting out of hand. It is quite painful at times, but it is a very great blessing because it is our one and only effective safeguard against our own proclivity for evil. p 71-72
The Narcissist: Self-Image of Perfection
Utterly dedicated to preserving their self-image of perfection, [the evil] are unceasingly engaged in the effort to maintain the appearance of moral purity. They worry about this a great deal. They are acutely sensitive to social norms and what others might think of them. Outwardly [they] seem to live lives that are above reproach. The words "image," "appearance," and "outwardly" are crucial to understanding the morality of the evil. p 75
The Narcissist: Excessive Intolerance of Criticism
In Martin Buber's words, the malignantly narcissistic insist upon "affirmation independent of all findings." p 80
Self-criticism is a call to personality change...The evil are pathologically attached to the status quo of their personalities, which in their narcissism they consciously regard as perfect. I think it is quite possible that the evil may perceive even a small degree of change in their beloved selves as representing total annihilation. p 74
The Narcissist: Scapegoating
[Evil is] the use of power to destroy the spiritual growth of others for the purpose of defending and preserving the integrity of our own sick selves. In short, it is scapegoating. p 119
A predominant characteristic...of the behavior of those I call evil is scapegoating. Because in their hearts they consider themselves above reproach, they must lash out at any one who does reproach them. They sacrifice others to preserve their self-image of perfection. p 73
Since the evil, deep down, feel themselves to be faultless, it is inevitable that when they are in conflict with the world they will invariably perceive the conflict as the world's fault. Since they must deny their own badness, they must perceive others as bad.
They project their own evil onto the world. They never think of themselves as evil; on the other hand, they consequently see much evil in others...Evil, then, is most often committed in order to scapegoat, and the people I label as evil are chronic scapegoaters...The evil attack others instead of facing their own failures. p 73-74
The Narcissist: Intellectual Deviousness
[A] reaction that the evil frequently engender in us is confusion. Describing an encounter with an evil person, one woman wrote, it was "as if I'd suddenly lost my ability to think"... This reaction is quite appropriate. Lies confuse. The evil are "the people of the lie", deceiving others as they also build layer upon layer of self-deception.
The Narcissist: Coercion and Control of Others
[Evil is] the exercise of political power—that is, the imposition of one's will upon others by overt or covert coercion—in order to avoid... spiritual growth... Because their willfulness is so extraordinary—and always accompanied by a lust for power—I suspect that the evil are more likely than most to politically aggrandize themselves... There is a remarkable power in the manner in which they attempt to control others. p 78
[In describing one of his patients, Peck says] Charlene's desire to make a conquest of me... to utterly control our relationship, knew no bounds. It seemed to be a desire for power purely for its own sake. She wanted the reigns in her hands every moment. p 176, 158
The Narcissist: Lack of Empathy
Theirs is a brand of narcissism so total that they seem to lack, in whole or in part, the capacity for empathy.
Their narcissism makes the evil dangerous not only because it motivates them to scapegoat others but also because it deprives them of the restraint that results from empathy and respect for others.
In addition to the fact that the evil need victims to sacrifice to their narcissism, their narcissism permits them to ignore the humanity of their victims as well.
The blindness of the narcissist to others can extend even beyond a lack of empathy; narcissists may not "see" others at all.
There are boundaries to the individual soul. And in our dealings with each other we generally respect these boundaries. It is characteristic of—and prerequisite for—mental health both that our own ego boundaries should be clear and that we should clearly recognize the boundaries of others. We must know where we end and others begin. p 136-137
The Narcissist: Greed
[The evil] are, in my experience, remarkably greedy people. Thus, they are cheap. p 72.
The Narcissist: Symbiotic Relationship
Another form of devastation that narcissistic intrusiveness can create is the symbiotic relationship. "Symbiosis"—as we use the term in psychiatry—is not a mutually beneficial state of interdependence. Instead it refers to a mutually parasitic and destructive coupling. In the symbiotic relationship neither partner will separate from the other even though it would obviously be beneficial to each if they could. p 137
I doubt that it is possible for two utterly evil people to live together in the close quarters of a sustained marriage. They would be too destructive for the necessary cooperation... In every evil couple, if we could examine them closely enough, I imagine we would find one partner at least slightly in thrall to the other. p 119 For adults to be the victims of evil, they too must be powerless to escape... They may be powerless by virtue of their own failure of courage... bound by chains of laziness and dependency. p 119-120
Evil in Families
It is my experience that evil seems to run in families. p 80
If evil were easy to recognize, identify and manage, there would be no need for this book. But the fact of the matter is that it is the most difficult of all things with which to cope. p 130 [Evil] will contaminate or otherwise destroy a person who remains too long in its presence. p 65
The evil deny the suffering of their guilt—the painful awareness of their sin, inadequacy, and imperfection—by casting their pain onto the other through projection and scapegoating. They themselves may not suffer, but those around them do. The evil cause suffering. The evil create for those under their dominion a miniature sick society. p 123-124
It happens then, that the children of evil parents enter adulthood with very significant psychiatric disturbances.
It is doubtful that some can be wholly healed of their scars from having had to live in close quarters with evil without correctly naming the source of their problems.
To come to terms with evil in one's parentage is perhaps the most difficult and painful psychological task a human being can be called on to face. Most fail and so remain its victims. Those who fully succeed in developing the necessary searing vision are those who are able to name it. p 130
In the video below, the two women on the left, Vanessa and Theresa, of Unmasked, are former friends of Jamie Watts. They both said they had no contact with Ronnie Watts or Cindy Watts, and they fell out with Jamie in October/November of 2020. The two women on the right were friends with both the Watts and Chris Watts. Shannon, the lady bottom right, had more contact with Chris than Sheri Ann, the lady top right. These two are also no longer in contact with the Watts or Chris Watts.
One of the important slants/theories in this video, but backed by intimate knowledge of how the Watts operate, is that it was premeditated to frame Shanann for killing the girls.
What I deduced from this video is that first Chris tried to KILL Shanann with the oxy (not just cause a miscarriage), and when that failed, he planned to kill them all, frame Shanann, and live happily ever after with NK. It appears he overdosed the children with oxy but "they woke back up" and Cece suffered in and out of consciousness before he took her to Cervi.
True Crime & Wine Wednesday 2/24/21
Streamed live on Feb 24, 2021
Unmasked
*****💛A message since this has clearly spread wide and far outside of Patreon💛****This video was made with one intent: to get the truth out and help us move on. This video IS NOT MONETIZED. It was never intended to be seen outside of Patreon. These murders happened in my community and I have followed the case since day 1. This case has become all consuming and toxic for all at this point because of what we discuss in this video. This case has held me back from releasing new content, consumed way too much of my time, and affected us in too many negative ways. We are not a "Watts channel" and I can't wait to explore other cases and actually try and help families who want it.I learned a few lessons too. Never again will I let certain boundaries be crossed and lose objectivity. So for those of you saying we did this for any other reason than above, that's not correct. For those of you we address in this video, you can continue to spin and try to do damage control. You are only upset because your house of cards is finally crumbling. We only released about 1/2 of what we could have. Even if you don't get justice in this world, I hope you get it in the next. After witnessing what we have, I can only imagine what Shanann's last weeks were like.
Shanann was "framed" in a pre-meditated way BEFORE Tammy Lee suggested, "Did Shanann do something to the kids?"
Significant_Peak_501 wrote:
I really don't know if oxy would have showed up in a toxicology report after being in oil tanks for I think it was three days, maybe four? But I agree, I have not seen solid evidence about oxy overdoses.
However, so much of what Chris says does not make sense. The only way "they woke back up again" makes sense is an overdose, not a smothering. If it was a smothering, I do not think CeCe would have "woke back up" at all. So yeah, he killed them twice.
Anyhow, Mark Gillespie is a bona fide legitimate forensic analysis and a crime scene specialist, and Unmasked, who put out the video, promises to have him on another video, and promises to go over the autopsy report again. I only did a "summary" of the video because someone here asked. But there is a great deal more information in the video that is not in my summary.
My main interest was that these four women, who have been closely involved with the Watts, are basically claiming that there was a premeditated effort [including the Watts family during the trip to North Carolina] to frame Shanann for killing the kids.
FreeLifeCreditCheck wrote:
Oxycodone would have been apparent in the girls' blood postmortem; we would have seen it in the toxicology results via the autopsy report. I do think it is possible, however, that the girls were strangled and/or smothered to the point of near death (e.g. they passed out), CW thought they were dead, and then they "came to" again. Please note that I say possible; obviously I do not know for sure because I was not there, but I do think it is certainly a possibility.
I think people in general believe that strangling/smothering/asphyxiation is a very quick death when it actually takes much longer. This false viewpoint could be caused by portrayals of "judicial hangings," where convicted criminals were hung through falling down through a trap door, their necks break, and they appear to die instantly from the hanging (when they actually died from the fall, not the hanging itself). However, certain forms of strangulation/asphyxiation may take minutes to reach the point of death. The person may pass out due to the loss of blood and oxygen to the brain, but it takes minutes for them to actually die from that loss.
As an added side note: those involved in sports such as Mixed Martial Arts may know about the difference between air-chokes and blood-chokes, as well as the differences in passing out from these chokes. I am not well-versed in that arena and cannot provide substantial data other than to comment that I do think it is possible the girls were near death from a strangulation and woke back up.
Significant_Peak_501 wrote:
Well, that is what I have though all along, that Chris strangled or smothered them at first, but the oxycodone overdose makes more sense. So I'll go with what makes sense, for starters, but I totally agree it needs supporting evidence. So I have to surmise that if this theory is true, that the evidence has not come to light yet, but I believe it will. The case has always needed forensic analysis, and expert opinion, and only recently some of them are starting to weigh in, at least I think so.
gingerfaith42 wrote:
There is nothing that indicates presence of opiates on either child’s autopsy. Petroleum products would not have covered them up, or somehow blocked them from testing. Autopsy is public record. There is chat about some supplement to the autopsy, but it’s public record so they can’t hold back little parts of it.
Significant_Peak_501 wrote:
The question is if the autopsy was a hair follicle sample.
gingerfaith42 wrote:
Yes, that would indicate use of a drug in the past 90 days. It’s not done postmortem. They don’t care how you lived your life... they want to know what killed you. The drug we are talking about is 80 mg of oxycodone. That’s an ER dose. It’s given to patients who have a current tolerance for opiates. It would completely flatten a child, and most adults. It’s not in their systems. There would have been no need to suffocate two toddlers if they’d been doped with that.
For CW to have had 7,000 photos of NK on his phone that leads me to believe this was a much longer relationship than they claimed.
Joan Bradley wrote:
I kinda knew about the sister but the family should all be charged. He is a monster. The fact that they were baiting SW is outrageous. They should be ashamed of themselves. I thought that he was going to setup SW but letting her find the girls and going in and trying to save them and then he got her from behind. That's why they were saying to do swabs of there neck. Just my theory.
Unmasked wrote:
If this is your first time I can definitely see why it's confusing. We're talking about the Watts. All four of us had experiences with them that we are sharing. There's also things shared about what CW said about the murders.
They were 40 mg tablets of Oxycodone.
Terrie Crocker wrote:
So are you all saying NK is totally the innocent victim here? Or they’re all involved?
Theresa S wrote:
NK is no victim.
Unmasked wrote:
My personal opinion is that all of these people had knowledge.
Again, not a sales pitch but we keep it in Patreon for a reason. Every time we do public Lives about Watts, we get trolled and it's a circus. We have it all in our True Crime and Wine Wednesdays and our private FB group.
raf fecondi wrote:
Ok Im going to come out and say this - despite promising myself I would never get drawn into the rabbit hole - but seriously I have weird ass screen shots I took of the cctv footage of the 'disposal' night (because I could not trust my senses to see everything there was to be seen at the time - so I wanted to 'meta analyse' the micro detail of footage in my own time) - and trust me these images are seriously weird and confronting - but among them - there are very clear images of a woman with blonde long hair / fringe - whom I could not place at all initially as I was not familiar with all the protagonists in the story (was thinking maybe NK wearing a wig??) - but who later, very much came to resemble the likeness of Jamie Watts. Probably sleight of hand and trick of the light stuff - but nevertheless VERY clear and if not literally representative of anything - possibly indicative of something?? (Energy cannot be separated from its host). Happy to share if you are interested to see for yourselves. Let me know if there is a PM box to drop to if you do?
Unmasked wrote:
unmaskedtruecrime@gmail.com
raf fecondi wrote:
I will send the images but pls don’t share at this point - there are good reasons why - will explain.
Peace Love & Light wrote:
Why haven’t SO MANY MORE people seen this? It is crazy! I still have questions but you really threw out some bombshells with this one!! New sub headed off to watch your history of lives!! Do the other two women have a channel?
Unmasked wrote:
Hello @Peace Love & Light 💜 This was our weekly Patreon True Crime & Wine that got leaked. We do have some public Lives but most of the ones like this are in there. Theresa and Sherie Ann are part of Unmasked. Shannon does not have a channel. I'm glad you liked it. 🥰😘
Peace Love & Light wrote:
@Unmasked I really liked it insofar as it seems like you guys “pierced the fourth wall” in a way. It felt very raw, very honest and very truthful. I imagine there will be backlash and I truly hope that it never puts any of you in danger. I rarely comment or participate on You Tube because I dislike the way it has become such a breeding ground for bad behavior. Creators yell at and accuse each other as well as their own and others’ subs. Subs never know who to believe and, instead of acknowledging THAT truth, they fight to the death with their own perceived truth, all the while with so much less than all the facts in their possession. I come here to learn. A little drama is expected. But after watching all the years, I feel like a lot of YT has become a cesspool of either outright liars, incompetent investigators and/or stubborn fools who cannot admit when they are wrong. There are many exceptions to this, of course, and I enjoy watching those channels as well. This video seemed very different. Anyway, great live and I hope again that your involvement in this crazy case will never bring harm to any of you.
raf fecondi wrote:
Too much focus on people/events AFTER the event. Please everyone, let's return to ONLY the facts that are available (but not just the default 'official sources') before and at the time of the crime. Everything else is a distraction that can further manipulate perspective and direction of focus.
Unmasked wrote:
I agree. However, once the after events are outed, it might give people a different perspective on what may have happened during.
cynthia f wrote:
So you have proof CW sister provided the Oxycodone with the intent to harm? Has this info been turned over to authorities? Wouldn't she be an assessory to murder?
Theresa S wrote:
We have proof she [Jamie Watts] admitted to giving him oxy, which she later retracted and said she meant kolonopin. We can not say what her intent was of giving him either one. Anything that would be important legally has been forwarded to the proper places.
Chris' sister Jamie was an in-home care nurse. The most obvious source for the sister's access. She had the ability to swipe some oxy.
She is in and out of patient homes everyday giving treatmeyt to ailing and /or palliative care who would be prescribed methadone, morphine, and oxicodone/oxycontin
Based on video proof, the family history, including the horrible note creation, Jamie wanted Shannan out of their family dynamic.
Routine_Common_1511
While I agree the two go hand in hand, there are many people who don’t follow the rules. They may talk the talk, but don’t always walk the walk. Having threesomes and anal sex are not in line with optimal health either and Nichol Kessinger, it seems, was into that as well. There are plenty of people who work out, eat healthy, and also do recreational drugs on the side. I think it’s very likely both she and Chris were doing drugs too.
It’s all speculation. I tend to think NK would have been the one who got him high. Her friend, Jim, would have been an influence as well. As far as sex and health not having any correlation, I respectfully disagree. You’ve heard of STDs, I’m sure.
littlebeach5555
NK seems to be the fake nature girl as evidenced by her lying and deception. I’d bet she introduced CW to drugs. “Cookies, cakes, and lollipops. Sounds like a cheat day” Just my observations though. I think CW got the oxy from his sister.
You think CW was on drugs but hid it from super healthy gym rat NK?
I think it’s actually the opposite. I think NK introduced CW to drugs, and CW was unbothered by NK’s party hard “friend” just showing up at her house whenever he was around. NK’s image if a granola loving macro counting yoga guru was as fake as her double D implants.
I know a lot of yoga junkies that did drugs.
I also know a lot of “love and oneness” people that would scare the hell out of you because they’re using that as a cover.
catthewcollective
I’m the general manager at a gym and many regular gym/health nuts use drugs, it really just depends on the person.
lastseenhitchhiking
She had most of her background information scrubbed; she appears to have a misdemeanor arrest record (you can google a video online that shows documents pertaining to these arrests), and there was speculation that she previously had substance abuse issues before her involvement in health and fitness. The oil and gas industry has it's fair share of recreational drug use.
featherstretch
True, but it's the difference between being a dedicated gym goer, and the nature and health-pursuant lifestyle. They're not really the same. I've seen enough about NK to feel pretty confident that she belongs to the latter.
Bettyourlife
Have you seen some of her FB chats? Her bestie Jim G at the time was a hard core party animal, and she clearly got in on the fun. Most of her available pics are either of her sleazing with Chris or partying with guys at a bar.
NK was/is pretty much fake everything. Her "one of the boys" schtick was a ludicrous pose given how she seem to sexualize every encounter with an eligible male. For a woman to act like that after working for years in male dominated environment just goes to show how deceptive and fake she is across the board.
Professional woman who work in those types of environments don't blatantly use their sexuality to evade responsibility and manipulate a favorable outcome for themselves to the detriment of others.
Her FB posts and those of her friends show a hard partying crowd. You can both be into fitness and into heavy drinking and drugs, I've known a number of people like this. In fact part of their fitness obsession is to stay healthy enough to still party hard and work the next day.
Chris doesn't come off as a druggie but who knows what he got up to when he was hanging out with Ms. K. Clearly his father is no stranger to drugs and the whole family seems comfortable hanging with sleazy people and drug users (ie Dylan Talbot, Lana O, Jay, Kim K) not to mention RW's draining of the family's finances to fund his coke habit.
Odd-Arugula-7878
I have known plenty of people that are into nature/clean/healthy living as you are saying. Many of them have also been into drugs like cocaine, ecstasy, mushrooms, and LSD. I always thought it was kind of strange that they wouldn't so much as use deodorant, because of the chemicals, and would only eat homegrown vegetables for fear of pesticides, but they would use LSD lol. And I think her major was geology? Funny enough I had a geology major friend that was very into all things natural/healthy/doing yoga at home, etc. She smoked a significant amount of weed and dabbled in other recreational drugs as well. Being into nature/health does not mean NK was also not into drugs.
useventeen
It feels given the relationship & “last” visit to NC, CW had with his sister, that could have been the time he obtained the oxycodone.
CW also could have seemingly innocently asked for it for himself. All of this ‘protecting’ his source is just further narcissistic supply & helps keep his family where he wants them.
Alesija
There is proof in the discovery. There's proof in her texts to her friends with the symptoms she described as textbook signs. As well as her parents and brother stating she was vomiting etc that night. Then for Chris to admit it himself. There's a lot of proof that he drugged her.
There also wouldn't have been any signs in her toxicology because oxy wouldn't have showed in her bloodstream for the 3 days she was in the shallow grave. I'm not entirely sure, but I would assume it would because of the blood loss from losing Nico, the stages of her body decomp etc.
She had no issues with her pregnancy until Chris showed up in NC that first night. After him slipping her the oxy she experienced textbook symptoms of the side effects from being poisoned with oxy. Now had she gone into an OBGYN in NC to check her vitals and Niko, she would've figured out what was going on, but she most likely didn't think her husband was trying to poison her and their unborn son.
It's not speculation that she was drugged at all. Maybe it's speculated to what exact drug he gave her, I can understand that. Multiple people and herself (ie text) have all said she was sick on the night Chris came, but wasn't before he flown out there.
Swat4584
Kinda makes you wonder why the mood changes and why he wasn’t getting any sleep while staying at NKs, and crashing mid sentence (according to both CW and NK). He didn’t have that problem for the years he was taking thrive up until that point or in NC.
At 1:40:30 in the video above, "iPhone" (Nichol Kessinger), who called in to the live chat from her iPhone on November 20, 2020, asks:
"Who was seen leaving the house with him on the footage at Nate's house?... It's proven to be him ([only]?... I was pretty convinced that it was her... He's never said that [Nichol was involved]. He says he wouldn't protect her but people assumed that he's talking about her. Now people are saying that he has proof that she wrote him on a postcard. So, what's their reasoning for thinking that Shanann killed the kids? What are they thinking the motive is? They haven't given one, and they wouldn't during that video... pagans, from what I know. And the stuff that Nichol Kessinger was into, Chris could have said it was dark stuff because he's a Christian, so to him it may appear as dark, like, you know, anything with, like, a pagan religion, he could think that it's dark stuff. I know that Christians aren't, like, that's what they think of pagans, from what I know... Another thing was the bald patch on her head in the interview room. What do you think about that? Do you think there was drug use with them, together?"
At the 1:58:00 mark in the chat, Crossed Lines says to iPhone [Nichol Kessinger]: "Iphone say, 'Leave Jim Alone!'"
Crystalina Bacteria wrote:
"I find it interesting you mentioned the mistress fighting with Shan'ann or trying to get to her. On November 22, 2017 (Nichol Kessinger googled 'Chris Watts' four months earlier, on August 3, 2017, and 'Shannon Watts' about a month later, in January 2018), Shan'ann did a FB live cooking video and someone was kind of harassing her. There's a VERY good chance that she was not fighting face to face or blatantly with Shan'ann but they were BOTH fighting for Chris. Shan'ann didn't want to give up on the marriage, and Kessinger wanted her out of the picture so she could have him. She indeed did not get what she wanted because Chris is now in jail. I have no doubt in my mind she was involved or knew what was going on. Why else would you delete so much off your phone? I'm really impressed with how fluent you are in Tarot and I know people want to 'poo poo' tarot, especially when it comes to things like this, but this is WAY too on point to be bullshitting." - Skully Gem's comment on video above
https://www.reddit.com/r/Chriswatts/comments/mlqd1v/christopher_lee_watts_the_closet_misogynist/
Chris replies: “Noooo... she didn’t leave in the middle of the night.” Smirks... (at 26:38 in the video above).
Chris’s folly was the fact that he didn’t communicate with his wife. He didn’t know her plans, how she was feeling, how close she was to her friends, out of touch with her daily activities. All that f***ed him in the end; he couldn’t develop a cohesive story that would match her plans or behavior.
The way he asked if he should drive around to look for Shanann and the girls with a wild grin on his face when he already knows they’re dead is so unsettling. He’s like a demented mannequin.
Starting at 34:17, Chris is clearly reading a text on his phone from NK. He stops pacing dead in his tracks, reads the texts, turns around, walks toward the bookshelf and places his phone down, and walks into the bedroom without his phone and then comes back out with Shanann's wedding ring. NK told him to walk into another room and come out with Shanann's wedding ring? He seems programmed.
Armchair Detective on his YouTube channel wrote on June 22, 2021:
"I will reply for the last time regarding Heather and the Red Kim show last night. The accusations are getting more and more falsified. I know Kim K is behind all of this extra drama. Heather is the sole person responsible for providing us with false statements from Chris Watts. What we received was NOT notes from her reading Cadle's book. What she sent was clearly marked as Chris's phone calls."
Starting around the 1 hour and 46-minute mark, Bubbles explains that the documents she is showing on screen are the notes that Heather provided to her of Heather's alleged phone conversations with Chris —Bubbles copied and pasted Heather's notes ("straight up texts from Heather to me" and possibly emails) into a Word document, making spelling and punctuation corrections, adding a color chart and highlighting, and noting things that AD had already covered on his channel.
In another video that has since been made private [at the 1 hour and 56-minuute mark], Bubbles explained that she talked to Cindy Watts. Bubbles also mentioned that Kimberly Griffith, Chris' new girlfriend, is not who she says she is, but that Chris doesn't know that she is an imposter. Bubbles mentioned this again [at the 2-hour and 48-minute mark], and said that Chris may be aware of this by now since Bubbles discussed Kim G with Cindy two days before the video was made (Bubbles said that, according to Cindy, "it will hurt him and break his heart"). The screenshot below is from Larry's video below ("We Were Duped"), and he says the message is from Chris Watts to Kimberly A. Griffith.
Meet Jamie Watts' friends Mel and Kel in a video streamed live by The Critical Kay on March 4, 2019 (video below).
If Cindy was angry and evil towards her DIL after her death and infront of the camera, then what was she like behind four walls?
Colleen wrote:
Imagine having such contempt for someone. You continue to speak badly of them. After their brutal death and that of your own grandchildren.
lisa richards wrote:
Chris was emotionally incested with his parents. I think that in addition to Chris’ narcissism, that also made it difficult to bond with his wife.
I believe this emotional incest is why Chris did not have a history of past dating before his wife. His mother would have rejected any other woman.
As far as the family dynamics, they are controlled by his mother’s narcissism.
Chris could not individuate from his mother.
I believe that Chris’ father additionally resented Shanann because she put him in a challenging situation with his narcissistic wife. He didn’t like having to be put in the position of having another situation where he had to walk on glass around his wife.
Just as much as Chris did not want to be in a situation where he would have to stand up to his mother. I believe that Chris was so programmed to cater to his mother’s narcissism, that in committing the murder, Chris subconsciously acted out his parents’ resentment of Shannon making them stand up to this narcissistic mother. And that in this murder, he also acted his mother’s hatred of Shannon. In this sense, even though he committed a murder, he did something his mother would have wanted. Chris’s mother saying the fact he murdered his wife would not change the way she felt about him, reinforces my belief.
To his narcissistic mother, despite the death of her grandchildren, it was all good.
Susan C wrote:
And Shanann was succinct, and logical. Eg, ''I am not responsible for your father blocking us on facebook''. She made the point so well, that she was open to being loved, he was choosing to not love her but also holding her RESPONSIBLE. She called him out on that.
Pineapple Queen wrote:
Chris is very much like his father with a touch of his mother's crazy. The passive - mumbling, almost incoherent, fragmented speech...conforming to the situation - being dominated by a woman, and inability to stand up and say what you feel - give your opinion...etc. Chris doesn't have the accent his dad has but he sure sounds like him.
linda king wrote:
How much did Cindy and Jamie have to do with this whole case? How long had they known NK and KK? I've never seen such hatred before and even now of this mother of their grandkids. I think there is a lot more to this story that will come out.
linda king wrote:
Can't you just see them sitting around a table plotting this scene with the nuts before Shanann ever arrived. They knew he already had a girlfriend, and they knew if they made Shanann mad enough she would complain to Chris and they would make everything out to be her fault, all the while pushing Chris farther away to the girlfriend. Cindy and Jamie are one and the same. Ronnie is afraid not to follow. I'd be curious to know what caused Ronnie to turn to Cocaine and what happened to Chris and Jamie when they were little. Not excusing either one.
Kybele Kordax wrote:
Cindy Watts in her book constantly brings up the houses and financial matters that show how materialistic she was and is. She's frequently going on about Shan'ann's home and income plus employment matters in a way that shows how envious she is of anyone who seems to have a better home, more comfortable financial situation, and even a more expensive engagement ring than herself. Most narcissists are very materialistic and Cindy Watts is no exception to this. They value appearances too much and to Cindy Shan'ann was financially independent and psychologically self-assured, not someone she could dominate like the rest of her family, and Cindy Watts saw these things and resented Shan'ann for them immediately. She reminds me of the character Mrs. Bucket in the British comedy series "Keeping Up Appearances" except Cindy Watts is much more loathsome. Her nasty remarks about Shan'ann in her book are inexcusable but unfortunately narcissists don't change and are blind to seeing how they're regarded by others that recognise their toxicity.
linda ross wrote:
Cindy Watts can blame Shanann all she wants, but I look forward to reading her excuse for why Shanann was to blame for him murdering his little girls and unborn baby. She and her son have zero compassion or empathy for the Rzuceks. She blames Shanann, and he blames everyone but himself. Neither of them care one iota for how these books will make the Rzuceks feel.
Chris Watts mistress Nichol Kessinger vacation in Peru
By Leaping Lizard
July 11, 2019
Photos Nikki sent to Chris and found on his phone show her in Peru, on vacation, possibly a yoga retreat. Peru has a large amount of tourism related to Yoga.
One of the photos in Peru that Nikki sent to Chris is of her in Macha Picchu, holding a crystal over her head (image above).
| Language | Label | Description | Also known as |
|---|---|---|---|
Qhapaq hucha was the Inca practice of human sacrifice, mainly using children. The Incas performed child sacrifices during or after important events, such as the death of the Sapa Inca (emperor) or during a famine. Children were selected as sacrificial victims as they were considered to be the purest of beings.
Machu Picchu
Tickets 2021
Human sacrifices have been practiced for thousands of years by many cultures in the world, including the Chinese, Carthaginians, Celts, and ancient Hawaiian cultures. It is also known of human sacrifices in indigenous peoples and cultures of pre-Columbian America, such as the Olmecs, Teotihuacans, Mayans, Toltecs, Aztecs, Muiscas, Mochicas, and Incas.
The Capacocha (Sacrifice of Children)
In the Inca civilization, the Capacocha was practiced. It was a ritual in which children were sacrificed and can be translated as “real obligation”.
For the Incas, death was the beginning of another life. The chosen ones for the sacrifices were boys and girls, who were considered pure. These had to belong to good families, and generally they were children of caciques.
The historian Carmen Martín indicates that they were carefully chosen children of great beauty from all over the empire. With respect to age, they were between 6 and 8 years old, although they could also be older. He reports that “death came to them without pain”, that they felt nothing probably because they were drugged with coca leaves or chicha; and when they were deeply asleep, they were exposed to very low temperatures in the summits of the glacial mountains and they died frozen.
In the Llullaillaco volcano in Argentina, the bodies of three children, two eight-years old, one 12 and a 15- year-old girl were found. The children were dressed in a sumptuous manner, unlike the girl, who was probably buried with them to take care of them.” This destiny was imposed from birth and accepted by them as a duty.
These children, considered pure beings, were bearers of the messages of their people. For this ritual they prepared months in advance and wore jewels and fine clothes.
Once in place, the children were intoxicated, then died frozen, killed by strangulation, or with a heavy blow to the head. Then they were accommodated in an underground well, luxuriously dressed, with personal adornments, fabrics, food and a series of articles of daily use.
Tombs as Warnings
Other studies point out that some of the ritual massacres in the Andes range back to pre-Inca times, but their numbers and sophistication increased with the expansion of the empire from its capital Cusco.
These studies indicate that Capacocha (sacrifices of children) was used as a means of social control. According to these, the tombs acted as warnings designed to instill fear in the conquered peoples.
Chronicles of the Capacocha
Juan de Betanzos, a 16th century Spanish chronicler, wrote that the Inca Pachacútec had a large number of children buried alive as an offering at the end of the remodeling of the Temple of the Sun. He also writes that when the Inca died, a thousand children were buried with him and a thousand girls between 4 and 5 years.
The chronicler of the time, Bartolomé Álvarez, narrates that some very young women destined to Capacocha, accepted their destination with pleasure, but those who did not wish to die were drugged or intoxicated and then sacrificed.
In 1639, the priest Barnabas Cobo wrote: “They were killed by strangulation on a rope; sometimes they were drunk before being killed”.
In 1572, Pedro Sarmiento de Gamboa, I affirm that, on the “Capacocha” party, children were immolated before the idol of Huanacaure.
Finally, Guamán Poma de Ayala (16th century), wrote that the Capacocha was a celebration held twice a year in which children were sacrificed.
However, we have to take into account that many Spanish chroniclers tried to justify the crimes and the devastation of the invasion, giving the Inca civilization a bad reputation, showing the Incas as murderers and sacrificers of children.
By Ashley Cowie
August28, 2019
Archaeologists and anthropologists excavating in the north of Peru have made the horrifying discovery of more than 227 child burials near Huanchaco. This is added to the “140 children, three adults, and at least 200 young llamas” that were found in the Huanchaquito-Las Llamas site in March. All were ritually sacrificed by the Chimú culture.
The huge number of sacrifices has led chief archaeologist at the site, Feren Castillo, to say: “This is the biggest site where the remains of sacrificed children have been found […] It's uncontrollable, this thing with the children. Wherever you dig, there's another one.”
The Chimú culture flourished along the coast of Peru from about 900 until 1470 AD, at which time they were conquered by the Inca empire . A scientific paper published in March in PLOS One details the results of recent excavations at the Huanchaquito-Las Llamas archaeological site, where "evidence of a previously unknown ritual involving a massive sacrifice of 140 children and 200 young camelids (llamas) by the Chimú State, c. AD 1450.”
Huanchaquito-Las Llamas is located in the Department of La Libertad, Province of Trujillo, District of Huanchaco, in northern coastal Peru.
A 2014 Ancient Origins article told the story of villagers in the coastal village of Huanchaquito noticing “bones poking up out of the sand, just 100 yards from the beach.”
"I find it interesting you mentioned the mistress fighting with Shan'ann or trying to get to her. On November 22, 2017 (Nichol Kessinger googled 'Chris Watts' four months earlier, on August 3, 2017, and 'Shannon Watts' about a month later, in January 2018), Shan'ann did a FB live cooking video and someone was kind of harassing her. There's a VERY good chance that she was not fighting face to face or blatantly with Shan'ann but they were BOTH fighting for Chris. Shan'ann didn't want to give up on the marriage, and Kessinger wanted her out of the picture so she could have him. She indeed did not get what she wanted because Chris is now in jail. I have no doubt in my mind she was involved or knew what was going on. Why else would you delete so much off your phone? I'm really impressed with how fluent you are in Tarot and I know people want to 'poo poo' tarot, especially when it comes to things like this, but this is WAY too on point to be bullshitting." - Skully Gem's comment on video above
I've been on this community from day 1. I was in the largest Facebook group started by the Critical Kay. She was contacted by the Watts early on, hoping she would help them. Kay eventually realized they had been lying to her the entire time.
On March 4th, 2019, Chris called his parents and admitted everything. This was before the world heard the Wisconsin confession audio. Go to Critical Kay's channel and watch the video from that date.
The Watts have gone through a string of people who tried to help them. They realize finally that the Watts are where the problem lies.
Chris is where he needs to be. He murdered them all by himself.
On October 15th, 2020, NK was granted a name change and the judge had it SEALED. You have to show proof your life is in danger. Her attorneys, with the help of Weld County, provided ample proof. They gathered all the Facebook group pages stalking her and declaring her an accomplice to murder as well as YouTube videos doing the same, and that's what the judge based her decision on.
Jefferson County
Judge Sara Garrudo
Her attorney was Arthur Walsh.
This case is closed and nothing will change this. It's all youtubers who have made up false narratives to keep the money rolling in. If Chris submits the 35c by the deadline in November, we will know pretty quickly the decision. Judge Kopkow has 83 days to accept or deny. It will be denied and hopefully people will drop this circus and let the Rzuceks finally have some peace.
Chris willingly gave up his right to a fair trial. He had death-penalty qualified attorneys who were prepared to fight for him. Those are the best of public defenders who want to win. They weren't crappy lawyers fresh out of law school.
The investigation was thorough. He chose to shut everything down 2.5 months after the murders.
I can tell you what led up to his decision, according to the Rzuceks and what they were told. His attorneys told Chris he needed to look at the crime scene pictures of his dead wife and daughters and get used to seeing the images so that he wouldn't have any visible reaction at trial when the prosecution passed the exhibits to the jury, the judge, and the defense table. It's a common strategy. He refused. The screaming matches overheard are well documented.
It was not long after that Chris decided he couldn't deal with the idea of being stuck in a packed courtroom while the prosecution explained in detail how he murdered them all and then disposed of them like garbage.
He's a coward. Now he has buyer's remorse.
In the Wisconsin audio he clearly talks about how his attorneys asked him over hundred times if he was sure he wanted to plead guilty.
He thinks God has bigger plans for him than sitting in prison. 🥴🙄
Chris is a cold blooded killer.
Ashleigh Cartwright wrote on youtube in a series of replies in chat on March 28, 2021:
CW knew about Nate's camera. All the front activity was to distract from what was going on at the back. They would have known Betty leaves at the exact time every day.
They were all meant to leave via the back; however, one of the children came around. NK brought her up to the garage because the child was upset.
CW traveled with the the children but, as the evidence shows, SW was never in the truck. The cadaver dogs were looking for SW's scent because she was pregnant and had the most pheromones being released. That's why they didn't bark at the truck. Jane's dog was looking for stress and arguing, so it picked up on the scent from the red dumpster.
Why is everyone acting like CW didn't know that CW and every one involved hadn't staked out what went on in the AM every day. I'm not listening LIVE. I am at 52-min mark.
They left the house alive. The window they left through in the basement was the one where they had pushed everything in front of it (the red suitcases and plastic boxes). That door has a damaged scratch plate and is visible when they go around the house at the back.
Also, the door across from the office, in all body can footage, WAS NEVER OPENED. Never.
There is also evidence linking Dwayne Kessinger and DA Rourke all the way back to 1993. Both had contact with Jeffrey Epstein and MG. Kessinger had flown on JE's plane a number of times.
The safe house I've found (checked property records and tax), it ended up in Rourke's extensive family and was eventually sold in 2020. The property was transferred in 2018 to one of Rourke's relatives. Kessinger bought the safe house for $6. It was given to his wife when they split and has been transferred back and forth, and even NK was the owner at one stage.
Dwayne's bankruptcies were discharged by a benefactor that's unnamed...
They don't sit there watching it; they use software to scour the internet. They've had a few hits but they need to be certain and it takes time. It was a child abduction gone wrong. Kessinger had a totally different agenda to CW. She manipulated his brain for 9-12 months, micro dosing him with scopolamine and ayhusca. Then when he was nodding in and out of consciousness at his house, she was brain training him.
Then on the night of the 111-min call, he had some of the drink at his house. That's what was in the fridge in the basement. He drank the drink, and then NK and her group turned up to remove the targets. CW and SW were marks since she had applied to work from home with Kessinger publications, who got in trouble for posting fake jobs to phish for families and children (people working from home). NK's consultancy business processed the fake job applications. Kessinger publications got in trouble for fraud but it does very quickly.
CW clings to Christianity because what has happened to him is like physically losing your soul.
I have lots more evidence to back it all up, including the group booking information from San Luis valley. NK, CW, Jim, Melissa and others went to San Luis valley for a ritual.
I don't have a channel because I'm not doing this for money.
I'm doing this to try and save more children's lives in Colorado.
I am currently working for Larry, and he has all this and much more. KK was part of NK's cult. They are not wiccan or pagan; they worship a dark deity called Ishtar.
From Barbaric Adventures:
Ishtar, the ancient Mother Goddess, is worshipped in rich temples and at lavish shrines with rituals of blood sacrifice and orgiastic frenzy performed before sensuously carved idols of ivory. For those who serve her, Ishtar bestows bountiful harvests and many children in exchange for sacrifice. The voluptuous temple prostitutes which are found in Ishtar's temples are well known, even outside the lands where the goddess is worshipped.
Christopher Lee Watts - The Closet Misogynist
I’ve always personally believed it was Shanann who ‘walked on eggshells’ in the marriage. Otherwise, CW would withdraw even more, ignore her and slink off to his basement. Hence why she needed to constantly praise him.
I also question how CW could become such a manipulating, lying, gaslighting, mind-playing ‘expert’ in just six weeks?
Maybe because he’d always played his games? We just don’t know about all of it. They call in ‘behind closed doors’ for a reason.
We can, though, see his manipulations at work, in the way he would subtly stoke the tensions between his mother and his wife. The way he played them both over the engagement ring. Telling his mother just how much he’d spent but also ‘blaming’ Shanann, saying she was expecting and needing such an expensive ring. That she’d actually help select it.
His mother was horrified and alarmed, and she expressed her extreme opinion. We know how forceful she can be. CW then delighted in rushing to tell his fiancé exactly what his mother had said. For such a ‘nice, kind, calm man who ‘hates confrontation’? Why you running around like a little bitch, hey Christopher?
My theory. CW hates women. He is a ‘closet’ misogynist. He is too much of a coward to be ‘out and proud,’ so it’s a subtle form, and his hate manifests itself through destabilisation.
We see this in his total destruction of Shanann in those final six weeks of her life. She was a shell of her former self; he destroyed her with his mind games. Then he killed her.
He ‘punished’ his daughters in the most barbaric way because they were starting to see through him. Sensitive Bella, in particular, would have seen her mother, literally crumbling before her eyes. I bet the tension in those final few weeks was off-the-scale.
Deep down, I believe CW despises his mother too. He demonstrated this when he summoned only Ronnie to accompany him to his LE ‘interview.’
CW knew what was going to go down that day. But CiW had to be told the truth over the telephone. That her golden-boy-son had murdered his wife and disposed of his whole family in the most horrific way.
CW had purposely isolated her: no Ronnie to comfort her or be there in person to answer her (I can imagine) many questions. The worst time of her life, yet her husband wasn’t by her side.
I’ll never be surprised if CiW is removed from CW ‘visitor list.’ His ultimate revenge.
With regards to Shanann, his detailed, gruesome confessions have only added to his wife’s humiliation. She ‘relieved’ herself. Her ‘foul stench’ in back of the truck. Her ‘black tears.’ She put up ‘no fight.’ She was ‘praying’ (but God didn’t save her).
The way he tossed Shanann in the grave, even removing the sheet - her thonged, semi naked posterior, positioned up. He removed any last scraps of Shanann’s dignity, even in death. Why did he need to remove the sheet?
The cruel details he revealed in his Wisconsin confession have caused Shanann’s family deep horror and pain. Sandra Rzucek - who has only ever spoken of how much she loved CW - has been destroyed by this.
CW needed to destabilise her, even in grief. He has made a mockery of Sandra’s savoir - her faith - by also finding religion and letting everyone know that God has forgiven him. Not only that, but God has a special and unique path for him. His sense of entitlement is off the charts.
It’s as if CW is taunting: ‘Three nil to me, Sandi.’ He took her daughter, her grandchildren, and now he’s even trying to undermine her religion.
The CW visitor list is an ever changing and macabre version of musical chairs. Sing to CW’s exact ‘hymn sheet’ or you’ll be ditched.
So many ‘penpals’ have been manipulated, used and then spat out. Cherlyn Cadle, Shannon Hart, Anna, and recently KK. She was also tossed out the window.
Recently he seems to be using Lana to communicate his twisted narrative. But he keeps her on her toes by also feeding her disinformation. She is left feeling vulnerable and doubting. He loves to make women look like fools via his mind games.
Heather [of UnMurdered channel] and Jay is 4 Justice were recently central and integral to this freak show. They has now also been deleted from the Watts inner circle.
Lana was front stage and central, riding in on her 35c white horse, with her binders and whiteboards clanking behind her. But then CW gets to hear about ‘Shizam’ and let’s it been known Lana is really not his type of girl. He didn’t do it himself, though; he got one of his ‘circle’ to take her down.
CiW is still locked into her son’s manipulations. ‘I just ask, one day you tell us the truth.’ CW replied: ‘One day, just not today.’ Will CW ever stop mind-screwing his own mother? 2.5 years and, yet, she can never move on, when her brain and heart are filled with ‘What r.e.a.l.l.y happened?’ Even though he’s told her a hundred times. He still hasn’t actually looked her in the eyes and said, ‘I did it all.’
In the ‘Letters’ book, CW continually blames others. He continually shames women. ‘Not blaming Shanann’, then goes on to blame her. ‘Not blaming NK’, then goes on to blame her.
CW needs to accept responsibility. Finally stop passing the buck onto others and excusing his murderous actions on some ‘dark force’.
Many of us never fell for your ‘nice guy Chris’ persona, Christopher Lee Watts.
You are the dark force CW. The evil is all you. Now is the time to man-up and own it.
**Disclaimer** not my writing, but I read this on Facebook and it articulated exactly what I have thought for a long time, but have been unable to accurately express.
Medusas__Gaze wrote:
I agree with all of this.
I'll also add that how Chris treated Shanann at the very end was how he always was - it was his true self finally being revealed. Chris used known narcississtic abusive tactics to hurt Shanann in the weeks leading up to the murders.
For example:
He "Stonewalled" her. That is, he refused to communicate with her. He used the silent treatment in order to control the situation and to escape any accountability for his actions. Shanann mentioned that Chris was never able to really communicate. I think he used stonewalling throughout the marriage.
He withdrew his affection.
This then lead to "Gaslighting". The reaction to his stonewalling and the sudden withdrawal of affection made Shanann anxious, fearful and made her doubt herself.
He lied and lied and lied some more.
This is why it's so important to analyse CWs behaviour so we can raise awareness to the red flags he exhibited and learn to recognise them.
Ultimately it didn't matter what personality Shanann had; she didn't stand a chance against someone with the ability to suddenly withdraw affection and who doesn't feel empathy.
His actions before the murders were abusive; his final act was psychopathic.
The original author of this post now has a youtube channel, and he discussed this in detail in a live: ‘CW the Closet Misogynist’ (video above).
Chris Watts' original story was dependent on him having access to SW's phone. Her phone passcode had been the same as the front door code up until a week before the murders. He knew her old code but not the new one, which means he was scrambling to come up with a new story without much notice. That's why neither of the new stories made any sense.
Interesting that he told Cassie that the conversation about selling the house was "last night" vs. that morning when he woke up and allegedly woke her up to talk, as he told law enforcement in all of his interviews, as well as Cadle in her book.
Later that afternoon, when Coonrod shows up at the house, NA confronts him in a bit of a heated exchange about how he told Addy that SW left in the middle of the night; and he replies with a testy and emphatic response that SW definitely didn't leave in the middle of the night.
On August 13th, Nicole Atkinson says to Chris Watts (video below): "Addy said that you told her that she [Shanann] left in the middle of the night."
Neither story made any sense based on the state of the home when NA arrived, but it is interesting that he might have been having a different story in the works.
He assumed that his good reputation would carry him through - it was the perception of his goodness (while he cheated, emotionally abused and murdered) that he believed mattered.
He completely underestimated both the swiftness and the degree of scrutiny that he would be under.
He asked NA for Shanann's phone passcode and she responded, “it’s the baby’s due date”, and he goes blank and hands her the phone. He didn’t even know it.
Chris Watts is a rare specimen of a true psychopathic narcissist who was discovered in his natural habitat, lurking among normal people who had no idea that a cruel and murderous freak walked among them.
MommyRamblingsBlog and the Rzuceks were trying to beat the other youtubers to the punch. The point was to "scoop" the "breaking news" videos from various creators. Watching the video above, it is confusing.
1. One of Blair/Heather's mods from her channel UnMurdered was a turncoat and stole from Heather's iCloud 50+ pages of Heather's notes with Bubbles' highlighting (Heather's letters with Chris stopped in October 2020; she never spoke to him by phone, she never visited him in person, and she never communicated with him via email, according to Cher at Voices Behind the Wall). Heather's mod (Terri, NOT Jana ) either sent this directly to MRB or it was sent to the Rzuceks, who shared it with MRB.
2. In addition to the 50+pages read by MRB on June 14, 2021, someone sent a 5-page letter. It is unclear but it seems that Seeking the Truth with Dave received it from a random subscriber (and not from Kimberly Griffith); however, he only was sent part of the letter. After Dave read his portion of the letter live on his channel, the next day a sub sent the full 5-page letter to Larry at Executive Decision, and Larry notified Dave immediately. Later, Plunder read this letter in its entirety in the video below ("I Have Grounds to Appeal"). According to Just Larry, he also received 800+ pages of fabricated documents.
VivecaStandsStrong wrote:
Please everyone, don't fall for this. Chris did not write the letter. u/HellWitDat seems to be the only person on this post who knows what's going on.
Bleather (the scammer Blair/Heather of the UnMurdered channel) used an app to create the letter using the letters from Cadle's book.
The app scans the uploaded documents and "writes" what the user types in the handwriting style of the uploaded document. Yes, an app such as this exists. As u/HellWitDat pointed out, look at the perfectly uniform spacing between words due to the app being utilized to create this.
Keri is so very at Executive Session on YouTube wrote:
Wait, so, I’m not trying to be rude but how were you guys played? Are you saying you guys were duped because someone sent you one part of a letter and the other part to Dave? How is that playing you? I can’t see how that’s setting you guys up when this person would know that you and Dave are close and discuss the case. Wouldn’t you both have read what you have received? I think that person would know this. There is a lot of lies that go around on here and I would imagine that Dave would have been smart enough to know that that recording was botched and cut off at the right moment. In my opinion, he didn’t expect that so many would catch on because everyone is so hungry for answers that they would just accept what was being fed to them. It’s obvious that he put that out for views. Many of us know he’s not that dumb to not see what we all have seen and, if he is, he shouldn’t be doing True Crime cases because he will just put out inaccurate information! The truth is he won’t own that because it’s embarrassing.
Larry at Executive Session on YouTube replied:
That’s a good thought. The issue is that whoever the person is responsible for sending all of this out, they didn’t leak the full letter to me. They knew I wouldn’t fall for it. I wasn’t included in this. But a trusted subscriber of mine sent me it after Dave had already read half of it [live on his channel]. I noticed he didn’t have it all. So I jumped in to try saving his ass before they claimed he purposely left out portions. And then everyone went nuts. Whoever the mastermind is, they didn’t expect me to catch it. And instead of appreciating me having his back, Dave doubled down on his source (Heather) and threw me to the wolves. So be it. My conscience is clear.
Nancy Natoli wrote:
Dave is either gullible or he thinks his subs are stupid. I haven't decided yet. He puts out false info instead of verifying it, and if someone questions it he blocks or deletes the comment. He has become the biggest conspiracy theorist covering the Watts case but some of the things he pontificates about are downright ridiculous. The latest debacle with the unrefuted evidence and all the hype and build up to a spliced sentence from CW that proved nothing and wasn't evidence at all. The FBI must've been laughing their asses off.
It was Bubbles' document of "Heather's Notes with Chris," which Bubbles shared only with Heather's mom, that ended up in the hands of MRB, although someone changed it a bit before Heather, Heather's mom, or Terri the mod sent it to MRB/the Rzuceks and, eventually, to Dave on June 22nd (who said it was given to him by someone on "his team" and that he didn't read it before going live on his channel to read it to thousands of people).
In another video that has since been made private [at the 1 hour and 56-minuute mark], Bubbles explained that she talked to Cindy Watts. Bubbles also mentioned that Kimberly Griffith, Chris' new girlfriend, is not who she says she is, but that Chris doesn't know that she is an imposter. Bubbles mentioned this again [at the 2-hour and 48-minute mark], and said that Chris may be aware of this by now since Bubbles discussed Kim G with Cindy two days before the video was made (Bubbles said that, according to Cindy, "it will hurt him and break his heart"). The screenshot below is from Larry's video below ("We Were Duped"), and he says the message is from Chris Watts to Kimberly A. Griffith.
I defended him [Seeking the Truth with Dave] at every possible moment. The minute I tried warning him that I felt we were all being duped, it changed. Some people don’t want to hear the truth. This hurt bad. I will always have questions about a coverup, and I did lose a friend over this. What I’m ashamed of is that I trusted so many people behind the scenes and let them drag me down so many rabbit holes. I lost focus. But in the end, I’ve hit a brick wall. I can’t deal with the constant drama and chasing ghosts. The only thing left to discuss on YouTube is the drama of Watts Island. The case won’t be solved on YouTube. And CW 100% killed his family. My only questions will always be what NK had to do with it and why they covered up so much. But it’s not worth talking about on YouTube every night. It’s become a mess. All I can do is tell the truth. And my biggest mistake was waiting so long to do it. The only reason I didn’t was because of my friendship with Dave. But he refuses to admit he was wrong. Even to the point of teaming up with Heather and KK. It’s become so bad. I’m 100% done with the whole thing. They [the Rzuceks] don’t even have to sue me. I’ll freely give them all of my devices, computers, access to emails and everything I know. I want this crap to stop as much as they do. I was duped and I’m sick of these people playing victim. I own that I’ve made mistakes and listened to so many lies. And it’s not right. I wish they could expose them all.
When he [Dave] texts me and yells every time I go live and tells me to give him a link so he can call in, it gets distracting. But I just let him do it. He needed to plug his channel. I had more subs than him within 24 hours of my first show. And even after barely posting and being attacked nightly for months, I still have more. I don’t really care about that but it’s a barometer. Three months ago I would’ve said you were crazy if you said I’d have a channel. So what’s the worst that can happen? Everyone stops watching me? Cool. My life doesn’t change. And I honestly wouldn’t care about the childish comments and obsessions like they do, but lying crosses the line. So it’s time to drop the mic this week and let the chips fall where they may.
Belvia khalid at Executive Session wrote:
Hi Larry! Apparently you and I are the same person. Kim was saying last night our conversation on MJ's live was you talking to yourself. The part that I found most amusing is Kim mentioned you said she is not successful. Our conversation was about how Kim constantly puts down others achievements and boast about her so called "success". She constantly calls you an insurance salesman as if that is a put down. She also mentions repeatedly that Crafton's ex works at Walmart. So last night her, Natasha, Crafton and loser Lynn decide they are going to twist the narrative and make it as if you are the person who puts down what people do in life when it is Kim all along.
Kim also thinks because she is a woman she can go after a man but he cannot, in return, go after her. Natasha, Kim and Lynn all use this when a man confronts them. Are we not equals? I guess not to them when it suits them.
It was hilarious watching Kim try and twist the story of how she was fired and her behavior at her previous employment. She even used her son and mentioned how he could read what was written about her, an attempt to distract from her bad behavior and gain sympathy.
Dave also mentioned how he was sexually assaulted by a priest right on the heel of (yet again) minimizing his sexual assault on a woman, an attempt to gain pity and distract from his wrong doings. They even mentioned how they have all been sexually assaulted and talked about god. As if because they have been sexually assaulted it means they can't do no any wrong, and if they speak of god it automatically makes them godly people.
We all know Lynn loves gaining pity for her sexual assault and takes no responsibility for how poorly she behaves behind the scenes in a sneaky way, going after people and then uses her verbiage and enunciation to try and convince people of her lies.
This group is like the kids in High School that didn't fit in and they never got over it. So now they try and destroy people, and they think they are good at hiding how disgusting they are but we can see it clearly.
They can't comprehend that there are other people besides you that see through their BS. They are so transparent that I can see right through them just listening to them twist the narrative.
Crafton was saying a few weeks ago I was his ex and saying hello Sarah when I commented. He really wants his ex to keep pursuing him because it makes him feel desirable, and Kim needs to feel like she has a desirable man.
They need to fill this void full of short comings and so they slander people but at the same time play victim.
I am willing to bet that this group of people individually has had a routine of being cons and playing victim most of their lives. When their last victim story starts losing affect they have another one...
They don't like anyone they perceive to be smarter, better looking, successful and so on. They go into their routine of getting close, finding info and using everything they find against that person so they can feel they are better. That low self-esteem and insecurity will never go away and that is why they continue to victimize so many people.
I am sure as children they didn't fit in and as adults they were still undesirable so their disdain grew even more. That must of been hard to go through but it doesn't make it ok to go through life trying to destroy people.
I do believe they actually feel like victims inside whenever they interact with people who look better than them, have more success, have their life together, are smarter, had a good upbringing, etc.
Anything can trigger their insecurities and that is enough in their mind to justify their bad behavior.
In life we are always going to run into people who are better than us in some way. We need love for who we are, and if we don't like something about ourselves we need to work on being better. Tearing another person down is not the answer.
Dani Dan at Executive Session wrote:
I couldn't agree more on this comment - and the OP nailed it!! Listening to that rant was laughable but once the part about the priest came round I rewound and watched his face and, I'm sorry, but there's a liar right there!
Not to mention WTF does 'I'm a TRUE sexual assault survivor' mean???? That his victim isn't, because Dave isn't a priest??? Are you Fing kidding me. I felt physically sick when that came out of his mouth.
Oh and no tears, no stuttering, no emotion at all - when you're supposed to be telling the world you've suffered this horrific life changing event. Funny how that wasn't mentioned last week in the confessional live.
Additionally - I love how he subtly corrected Kim when she said he wasn't even convicted - and he was like, no, I was. She keeps telling everyone he wasn't convicted!! Is she really this dumb!
Iota at Executive Session wrote:
@Dani Dan I was sent a screenshot comment on his last live (I don't watch his channel, can't stand his smirking face). Apparently a viewer didn't like him mocking Jesus in his recliner. His response was he was molested by a priest therefore he can, but he's working or not on something to that effect. The viewer should realise the dude has no morals or ethics and doesn't really care who he mocks. Long as he gets views. I'm sure someone is investigating him; actually I'm positive they are.
He was so terrified it was going public, that he blubbered the story out himself, on a public platform, where a few thousand more people found out. The story which HE told everyone in the first place... Lmao! Idiot.
Larry replied:
It’s a very sad story. And unfortunately it’s working. Dave only cares about growing, and he’s gaining subs. That’s it. But short term growth is shortsighted. It’s not sustainable; and the more they talk, the deeper they dig. They think I’ve “exposed” them. I’ve actually said NOTHING yet. He stated in his live - yes, we have it all downloaded in high quality - that he grabbed her boobs and kissed her neck. Defending this on YouTube, in the true crime community, is astonishing. If anyone should be mad at me about anything, it’s that I kept defending and supporting Dave while I knew this. But to say I threatened to expose it or that I was some alt account went over the line. Criminally (in Australia) and civilly in the US. And it was a 100% lie. He even stated in his live that “it may not be Larry” but continued to insinuate and basically say it was. All with the help of two people with a long real life history of these same actions. Stay tuned.
Iota replied:
@Executive Session I don't think it's sad. I think it's orchestrated. A social experiment, a CON JOB. Let him have his sheep...I mean subs. Anyone with even a tiny bit of intelligence can see it's a con. And to still use MRB's home as their thumbnail on both channels, with him grinning like a maniac, is the height of farce and stupidity. Evil minds at work.
Thirsty K is NOT the touchstone for every legal and or mental/ health diagnosis in the universe.
Why was that performance even necessary!? So he can continue his reign of terror on YouTube, keep making bank.
Who cares about this aggressive little nobody.
YTpsychMyths 2 wrote:
They are saying it was a simple kiss and conveniently left out that he also groped the woman over her clothes. The diminishing of this makes me sick as a survivor myself.
Larry wrote:
They’re scrambling and obsessed. They finally picked on the wrong person. And I don’t care if everyone unsubs to me. I don’t want those kind of supporters. It’s time for a reset.
Mary Hass replied:
@Iota Correct! He is a postman and there are certain jobs in Australia you can still do with a conviction on your record. I actually think that is a good thing considering a person has done their time. It enrages me he didn't mention grabbing her breast! Trying to minimize what he originally said makes me think there is a lot more to the story. You make some really good point and have me thinking deeper into his actions and why he says what he says. I did notice the emotional manipulation for super chats.
Mary Hass replied:
@Executive Session He said on CB's live that you said "Don't go there" and he took that as a threat and got ahead of it...How in heck is that a threat? And getting ahead of it is telling his victim's story his way? That is disgusting. In Australia, you are on the sex offenders list temporarily, 8 years or 15 years (depending on the level of the offense); and they even remove you early for good behavior. He claims to be off the sex offenders list as if it is proof of his innocence. Also, you can have a government job in Australia if you sexually assaulted someone in your past. Like I said before, we don't know what happened because the criminal is the telling the story. And if he is willing to minimize what he has already said, I can just imagine everything he has left out.
Larry replied:
He never once said sorry to the victim. It was all about playing to the camera. And when I said, “don’t go there,” it was clearly about me showing that the letters were fake, the script was fake and someone was trying to set everyone up. I was trying to protect him. But he only cared about content. He proved it by reading the letters, even after they were proven fake. The SA conviction never even crossed my mind. But they’re paranoid schizophrenics that jumped the gun. And again, he never even apologized to the victim or her family. And now they call me the bad guy. Because I told the truth about the scam this whole case has become. And that I refused to play their little troll games.
My name on TikTok was “The Dirt”. That’s why I was suspicious of this person on YouTube when they used that name to attack both of us. Then he tried flipping it on me by saying because that’s my TikTok name then the YouTube “The Dirt” was me and I was trying to expose him. Total BS. Why would I alert him to it if it was me? Makes no sense. The person was trolling me, too! Not to mention that it’s irrelevant. He’s the one convicted of sexual assault. If anyone should be mad at me, it should be because I continued to defend him and being his friend after he told me about it. We’re supposed to be true crime and people are supporting a sex offender that has zero intellect other than yelling at a screen and talking about NK and drama.
Zoe Grace wrote:
Wow! Thanks for exposing the truth, Larry - no wonder the poor familys want these god awful youtubers to stop! One being convicted of sexual assault - no wonder he speaks so derogatory of women when his actions have spoken louder than words to what he thinks of them! What a vile, nasty human! I certainly wouldn't want him "fighting for the truth" of my murdered family with that background, thank you very much! Keep up the good work Larry!
Iota wrote:
@Executive Session Can you email me his confession? I'd like to send it to the Federal Government he talks so fondly about. As an Australian Taxpayer I expect ANY Federal employee to be doing their job, not on YouTube during work hours.
Again, in his OWN words all over YouTube, he states he's at work. Using a phone whilst in a vehicle is an offence. You're not allowed to even pick your phone up to look at the time whilst in a vehicle in Queensland Australia.
He works for the federal government. And he puts it in capital letters for maximum impact.
He does it to imply he's squeeky clean, because criminals can't work for THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT - and to big note himself of course.
He's a postie - he delivers mail.
Criminal Activity!
What if he was to misjudge some poor old lady picking up her mail from him as flirting? What then. Another victim. Will there be another blubbering confession.
Dani Dan replied:
@Iota well same as the tons that gushed support for the sexual offender AD had on, and he digitally raped a 13yr old, but AD and bubbles encouraged the women subs to write to him and send him things because he has nothing, and he ' thought she wanted it!!!!' What the actual F is wrong with everyone!!
This is not OK. Nobody should be saying to any perp it's OK, you have an excusable reason for why you put your hands, or any part of your body, on another person who did not want nor ask for it!! End of story. It's called consent! Any man or woman who is making excuses for this is enabling this behaviour, plain and simple.
I, for one, would love to hear from his victim - because we've already seen from the text msg exchanges, Mr - 'I'm not here for money or likes' - sure as hell is a big fat liar!!
So he can cry, and glare into the camera, and perfect his shaking all he likes - he had the audacity to accuse another WOMAN publicly about SA recently - HOW DARE HE!!!!!
Sandra Guest wrote:
Dave's crassness, diversion of emotion is very telling.
Let's use emotion to detrack of the real issue at play.
$$$$ for Dave.
His arrogance of conduct in thinking he is entitled to abuse; his use of Shannan and the childrens' photos, etc, is alarming of his elevated self grandiose.
Yes, he is vulgar and has limited self awareness of how a grown man should conduct themselves.
An embarrassment for all Australians!
Dave, don't forget to disclose your earnings?
Mari S wrote:
Dave sexually assaulted a women and my support is for his victim and the many other victims of sexual assault. There are other things that lead me away from his channel but the sexual assault was what sealed the deal for me. I left on vacation for a week and unplugged from Watts island. Came back and see Dave and his group are making fun of another creator. New week, new victim and I am not into it. I am officially unsubscribing to anything Watts related and unsubscribing to any creator in their little group.
Dani Dan replied:
And mari, all reasonable, rational people would have the same morals and understanding as you. The irony is, he bangs on about standing up against anyone victim bashing - who is standing up for your victim, Dave? Who gave you the right to tell your version of her truth all over the world to your 1000s of boot lickers, I mean subs. How dare you do that to her, further assaulting her and adding to her grief. He's a disgusting excuse of a man, and his true colours have been exposed finally.
Disgusting behaviour! Victim blaming is NEVER OK, and to further add insult to injury to not offer an apology to her....utterly shambolic!
What has floored me, as a fellow creator has been the subs who just think this is OK because they see creators as some sort of celebrity.
"Cher has proved without doubt that Heather has not had any contact with CW for literally months and months, and so all this info she has, that supposedly has come from daily phone call from CW, is all lies. She has played the lot of you with the sweet little voice. You all fell for it." - Sally James at Executive Decision YouTube channel
"I'm sorry but Heather seems to be the problem. Most manipulative people are nice when they need something, but man when it doesn't go their way." - Candace King at Executive Decision YouTube channel
The following are text messages between Heather (gray) and Bubbles (blue), who is the main researcher for Armchair Detective (she also makes all his videos).
The following are comments from Heather's live on June 21, 2021, in which she revealed her last name and showed employee badges from her job as a security guard for a hotel in Las Vegas (she has since disabled comments on the video).
The following are text messages between Heather (gray) and Bubbles (blue), who is the main researcher for Armchair Detective (she also makes all his videos).
The following are comments from Heather's live on June 21, 2021, in which she revealed her last name and showed employee badges from her job as a security guard for a hotel in Las Vegas (she has since disabled comments on the video).
Heather and Chris communicated only by letter, and never by email or by phone. Heather faked the emails and phone calls. Her last letter to Chris was in October 2020 (his last letter to her was in September 2020 or earlier).
And Heather's name has never been on Chris Watts' visitor log (phone calls are not part of the visitor log, just zoom meetings because they are televisits, which started in 2020 due to in-person visits being prohibited during the COVID pandemic).
According to Gina Ribena in a comment on youtube: "[Heather from] UnMurdered is lying. She says she couldn't bring receipts because she had a high profile job. She actually works in a casino. She also used to run an agency where she set it up for people to PenPal with inmates called Sloth Agencies but she was struck off for fraud. Although I don't like Kim [Kaufman], she showed receipts of UnMurdered, aka Heather aka Blair, contacting her in September 2020, asking her why CW stopped writing to her. Kim showed the emails on the live. She also was on with the other Kimberly and Chris said he has had no contact with Heather at all and he has never ever called her. Heather's another one on the grift. Granted she did have letter contact with him but no calls. She was also caught out last year photoshopping emails supposedly from Chris. I'm writing this to warn people not to fall for her lies."
The Recent Implosion of Watts Island
There is nothing left of the Watts case except the drama between the YouTube channels. The problems escalated when YouTube encouraged creators to offer "membership" (at a fee) to their subscribers by clicking on the "join" function (what is Google/YouTube's cut from this fee, 30 percent?). During some live chats, "members" only are permitted to comment, and members are invited to join the "panel". Donations, "super stickers" during "super chats," are pushed (Google/YouTube takes 30 percent). And now youtube has added "super thanks," with Google taking at least 30 percent. From advertising revenue, youtube takes 45 percent. Many creators make "guest" appearances on each other’s channels. All of them extend greetings, flirt, and grovel over the donations. There is petty fighting and innuendos. The creators continue to engage with each other when nothing gets resolved and
everything escalates...over and over again. It’s nonsensical and hard
to comprehend. Any different opinions are blocked. It appears that some creators would indeed report on content they knew or suspected to be false. Honestly, who would pay for this? Then the male creators began to far outnumber the female creators in bringing personal issues to their subscribers (I'm an old man with high blood pressure and dyslexia, I have Aspergers, etc., holding back fake tears on camera to tug on heartstrings). The live chats resemble a cult, with the creator being the cult leader. There is really nothing new to report so channels need to keep it going
in whatever way possible, including turning on one another and spreading
untruths. Any kernel of Watts-o-Mania is fair game. These creators aren’t going to crack the case like they claim. This appears to be an orchestrated plan to keep the narrative going and the money and views coming!
"Late one night I had been doing a deep dive into this case. I was reading the document dump and began to read Sandy's letter. I had the sudden realization that Shanann did not have a chance. Later, with the original nutgate recording by Mel and Kel, my sadness for Shanann deepened to awareness of something feeling like 'evil.' Listening to these 2 young women cackle and laugh about petty actions of a woman now murdered with her 3 babies...essentially her DNA wiped off the face of humanity....I had a sense of the intense isolation Shanann must have felt." - Jewels of Thought
Fantasy was likely a key factor before NK
ravenhairedmaid
My husband spent 10 years in prison, and he thankfully is one of those whose Christian conversion stuck. He has an excellent "sense" about people, and his 1st reaction to this case was that CW had already been thinking about it before anything ever happened. I think fantasy played into this almost as much as NK. I'd like to know if he ever fantasized about killing anybody else, and at what age those fantasies began.
OkayButWhyThis
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. I think Chris considered murder and then thought that maybe a baby would fix the desires, but it didn’t and instead it solidified his murder plans.
Chris pressured Shanann into a 3rd child.
I really believe he did that because he thought he would love her again if she was pregnant or maybe he thought he would feel less angry at her if she was having his baby.
Instead, it made him feel more trapped than before, and instead of just toying with the idea of murder, he began to plan it.
I agree. He thought a baby, especially a boy, would bring them closer together.
I think he was so convinced that he was able to fool his entire world into being that perfect husband and father on one side, and being that desired perfect new boyfriend to his mistress on the other one, that to me, he actually wanted to keep both at first.
CW and NK were together for longer than they both admitted, and I guess she got tired of him having to go home to his supposedly estranged wife instead of staying with her or, at the very least, finding a bachelor pad to stay while filing for divorce.
He thought he had total control over both sides of his life.
Then came the moment when Shannan unexpectedly recorded his reaction to her announcing her pregnancy. He knew she was going to put it on social media. He also probably knew NK was stalking Shannan’s Facebook page to be sure they were really separated (he probably served her the bad excuse, saying they were faking a happy relationship to avoid family and friends to worry and for her Thrive thing too) so he instantly knew he was going to get in trouble with NK with that big announcement. His lies were exposed. I supposed CW and NK argued then and she probably gave him an ultimatum that might be the trigger to all his evil plans. He was extremely mad at Shannan way before that so I guess this added fuel…
The reasonable way out was to get a divorce, and I want to think (call me a naive girl for this if you want to) that he actually saw divorce as an option, did his research but found out debts + divorce = extra debts. He also probably contemplated fleeing with NK.
The turning point for me is when Shannan found out she was expecting a boy. As NK wanted to give him a baby boy, I guess the news for both of them was not a happy one.
I still don’t know the role of NK in all of this (was she “only” suggesting him things or did she actually help him?) but the idea was first to have Shannan’s pregnancy being interrupted with her taking oxycodone without knowing. Or maybe the plan here was already to kill Shannan with her overdosing on the oxycodone? This is the reason why he did not bat an eyelid when she was so sick one night because of it.
As the plan failed, he came up with another plan, which is the horrendous one that actually took place and cost the lives of not only Shannan and Nico but also Bella and Celeste.
Why the girls were killed? I supposed he only saw them as burden for his new life with NK at that stage. Or maybe he was scared they would remind him of Shannan all the time? Or maybe they witnessed him murdering their mother and he was scared they would talk? The way he “buried” them shows no love and no remorse. He clearly wanted them all dead.
I came to think that this is probably how it all took place after watching many videos and reading many articles and posts about this case. I still cannot understand how anyone can think they could kill their entire family to start a whole new life with a new love interest and think they would easily get away with this and live happily ever after and not get caught. CW always had all the reasonable good choices in his hands yet he decided to come up with this evil plan and decided to kill his family.
Bettyourlife
NK put the kibosh on any normal transition with the girls. During her interview, she brazenly demonstrated to LE how she would banish him to "go be with your kids". And that instance, she was desperately trying to rehabilitate her image and make the impression to LE that she was not the meddling kind of mistress. I can just imagine what that banishment looked like when it was just the two of them behind closed doors!!
And of course it is a tacit acknowledgement that their affair began long before Shan'ann and the children left for NC. I wouldn't doubt that Chris was already in a rage at Shan'ann and the girls by the time they left for NC.
She appears to have brutally kicked him out from their sexual utopia every time he had to attend to his kids or speak with Shan'ann.
Plus her harping about her firsts, first son and beautiful life. None of that was going to happen while Shan'ann and the kids still walked the earth.
The Chaos Crew
She said in one of the first texts about him to her friend she feels like she’s always going to come second, she didn’t just say that to him. Obviously this was a huge deal to her.
adSinger514
I think the fact she was having a boy contributed. He was disappointed that it was a boy because he wanted to give NK a "first" that she complained about. He could only do that if Shannan had a girl.
Whythisnthat
Bingo. His dream of providing a delusional NK with her first son was shattered with Shanann giving CW exactly what he wanted. Just that it did not come from the right womb. Just plain bizarre.
GrilledCheezus1219
I wonder if automatically killing Niko by killing Shannan was the thing that made him willing and able to kill his daughters. Like maybe he was just going to kill Shannan, but maybe the lack of guilt he felt for Niko made him realize that he wouldn’t be wracked with guilt if he did the whole family and then he wouldn’t be slowed down by having to care for young kids alone.
OkayButWhyThis
Chris said that when he put the girls to bed the night before, he knew it would be the last time. I don’t think he is ready to openly admit that he planned to kill them all along, but he makes subtle comments that imply it.
For example, he talks about how Shanann would degrade him and tease him, and she would teach the girls to do it too. He said the kids would often outright hit him and he didn’t like that. [I doubt they learned that from Shanann but I also could see her thinking it was funny and not immediately correcting it. If I didn’t think it hurt and my partner didn’t correct me, I’d think a sassy slap occasionally was funny too. I would also correct it immediately, though, but I am a different mom than her and that’s okay.] He saw Shanann in them and I think when he wanted to kill her, he wanted to kill every single part of her. Unfortunately, that includes the kids.
He tried to get Shanann to miscarry, according to his 2019 confession, so he had already tried to eliminate Nico before the murders. That supposedly happened in NC, and Chris says he will “take to his grave” who gave him the oxy. But he drugged Shanann and apparently that’s why she was so violently sick the night she was texting her friends and crying because Chris wouldn’t comfort her.
magiclougie
On the day he arrived in NC, July 31, Shanann became very sick.
I think he tried to kill Shanann with the oxy overdose in NC, which, of course, would kill both her and Niko. He knew she was distraught and thought it would be believable that she overdosed on her own.
When he failed in NC, he tried again, on August 10th, when Shanann left for Arizona, but he failed again.
This is when he decided to kill her when she got home, and he made the decision at some point to also kill his daughters.
OkayButWhyThis
Shanann said the new baby was Chris’s idea. It could be that he was feeling angry with her, wondered if a baby would help so he suggested and they tried, but then when she got pregnant his feelings got worse and perhaps that’s why he started toying with the idea of murder.
Studies show that when women are pregnant, they are actually more in danger of assault or murder.
If the sudden stress of an impending 3rd child set Chris off, then it would have been easy to have an affair because he would have been seeking a stress relief.
And it makes sense he would consider killing her because a pregnancy is apparently one of the most common times when women are murdered by their husbands.
There’s a YouTube video of Chris where he is talking about how to save a
marriage and one of his suggestions is “have another baby”.
I think he
was maybe tempted by NK, doubled down briefly, got Shanann pregnant in
an attempt of “saving the marriage”, and then he panicked.
Once she was
pregnant, I think that’s the first time he considered murder and perhaps
even started planning.
OkRadish5
Who raised him? I think he had carried resentment anger and rage since at least high school, maybe more like 5th or 6th grade based on many photos where his eyes have this cold blooded glare. If CiW is to be believed, she said in his childhood she heard him in his room asking for forgiveness more than one occasion. That dead cold stare is known as the psychopath stare, dead cold eyes. Psychopaths are more born than made — if so, did he begin committing horrible deeds in childhood, such as harming or killing animals, setting fires, etc? I could see him doing that, and his evil photo of him wearing the ugly sweater as a kid, his eye has that dark evil gleam in it—almost as if he knows something other people don’t. Too disturbing to want to know the real answer to who he really is and how far back his dark urges got the better of him. The way CiW treated CW as a surrogate spouse (evidenced by her refusal to attend his wedding) was perfect fertilizer to grow his warped mindset—if he was a child psychopath, I believe the influence of CiW pushed it fully in. If he had a positive influence instead, who knows, maybe that could have been enough to curtail his thinking to at least being able to restrain himself from killing.
The heinous nature of Watts' crime goes well beyond any influence from a girlfriend. This is from childhood. Law enforcement would have been all over this had she given any signals
of deception regarding the crime. Her character is what it is, but she
wasn't part of this brutal murder. Because she lied in the interview (minimizing, withholding etc, about the relationship), an analyst who is lacking experience may conclude criminal guilt. She may have had attendant guilt of a possible criminal nature (drugs, for example) though not guilt of Watts' crime of rage. The subject has No guilty knowledge of Watts' crime, which includes cover up. Subject has lots of guilt and shame regarding being in a relationship with Watts. I believe she likely worried that she was, somehow, responsible for their deaths. She wasn't.
Lauren
Wanted to point out something she said that gave me chills (video below)...that he made her think everything was going to work out as planned. There's enough plausible deniability that she wasn't talking about the murders...but I believe that was a slip.
The one thing that always stunned me. 3 months to a sentencing? Why so rushed? He didn't confess to killing the kids. I remember another video where they went into the police department there asking for the evidence to do a video on it and the officer saying as soon as Chris confessed all the funding for the investigation was pulled out and stopped. It's so odd how this whole thing was handled. I believe he's exactly where he belongs but I believe someone else should be serving life with him.
Denise Porter
This was absolutely premeditated, many factors indicate this. CW appears less intelligent because THEY had 2 wrenches thrown into their plans, thus they were not able to finish their evil plan. Their goal was financial wealth and to start a new life with no baggage. The plane delay and Shanann changing her passcode on her phone messed up their plans. They panicked and made major mistakes.
NA put the final nail in their (his, for now anyway) coffin. It would have actually been quite genius If they had been successful.
They were going to blow up the batteries and get a major payout, with NK driving the car to the site to make it look like Shanann drove there with the kids to confront CW about the affair. Then boom, the gas leak caused the explosion and all evidence is destroyed.
No one would know that the girls had been in the batteries and that Shanann was moved from the shallow grave to the car. It was shallow for a reason: it was temporary.
CW purposely used his debit card at dinner the night before to cause the argument.
It might sound crazy I know, but after 2 1/2 years of studying this case this is what I believe happened. Or very close anyway.
They ran out of time, luckily. If they had been able to get in Shanann’s phone and respond to texts, the alarm would not have been sounded so early on of them missing. I would pay to see the look on their disgusting faces when they couldn’t get into that phone. I also believe that is why the office appeared ransacked as opposed to the rest of the house being spotless. I believe they were looking through the office to see if she had the passcode written down.
From reddit:
I enjoy reading the opinions that everyone has. Some think NK was in on it. Some think he killed the children before SW was even home. Some think they had agreed upon a martial separation before she went to NC. Some think he and NK had been dating for much much longer than they both admit. Some think the girls had to ride in the car and walk up the oil tank steps to their death. Some think they were killed in the house. Some think Cece was killed in the house and Bella rode alive to CERVI. This is a true crime case where people are asked to bring their thinking caps and look at the material we have available and then discuss their thoughts. Not shut down any conversation with how she and the children didn't deserve to die. People discussing oddities in SW behavior or social media postings are discussing the context of the stress in their marriage which both SW and CW were a part of. A marriage which could have and should have been legally dissolved with a divorce. Not blaming a woman for she and her children's murder.
And to be clear, nobody deserved to be murdered. Period. If someone EVER says she she or the children deserved murder, please report them to the mods and I hope they get Perma banned.
So basically that's what I'm talking about when people are being rational in the sub. They're actually discussing the case without resulting to appeals to emotion.
Doesitmatter59
NK voiced so often and loud that she wasn't interfering, I think it opened her up to this kind of criticism, just saying. I'm not disagreeing. It made me actually think "why", why do so many have a visceral reaction to NK. I think it was the fact that she refused to take any accountability for her role.
OkRadish5
I noticed in all his videos with her and the kids he looks like he’s playing a role, and there were multiple times going way back as far as their wedding day where his eyes have this dead glare of rage and contempt. It’s very disturbing. Note this same gleam of simmering rage is seen way back in his high school photos, so he had a cold blooded inclination to kill, I believe, fully from the time he was young. If he never met SW he would’ve killed someone else. But the one video where she announces with the t-shirt stood out some because, when I saw it, it looked like the only time he looked like a normal human being but it was probably just his mask was extra good that day and I fell for it.
Chrissa D wrote on youtube:
I was in possession of the original Discovery.
In the very first Discovery, orders came down from DA Rourke, that, GET THIS:
"All hand written paper notes (yellow) that have been written will be destroyed and only typed witness interviews will be accepted for Discovery." This order is written and handed down by DA Rourke.
How's that for being the ultimate redaction!! Just thought I would mention it.
DirtyFloorHotDogs
I was reading the discovery the other day of the texts between NK & Charlotte and it seems like all the texts of him being jacked, Cherokee, and even Charlotte's comment "do you want to go back to high school" when NK was complaining about CW's baggage, isn't in there, which I found strange because I knew I had read that and now it's gone.
I think they met way earlier than they said. There's no way someone gets that overly involved in someone's finances, knows such personal information and inserts herself into every aspect of someone's life, that they claim they weren't that into, unless they're with them a while or a yenta.
Also, searching for wedding dresses for hours, googling if men marry their mistresses, talking about marriage, kids and types of houses they want to live in are things people do later on, not 6 weeks in. So yeah, I think they met around 2017 when she was looking both SW & CW up.
Sarah Princess
Yes I’ve always thought it was longer -- I think Chris was being made into the perfect Manchurian candidate, and the reason he’s not telling truth is embarrassment of sexual 3 somes -- 2 men and her -- and in fear for family’s life! This was about corruption mixed with luciferianism -- just check out Denver airport murals and you’ll get my drift! I could be wrong but imho he was approached due to financial difficulties and compliance -- I don’t think he killed his children at the very least -- but I’m happy to be proved wrong!
debinambiocry
Does your current copy of Discovery contain the words "callous" now? Mine doesn't. The video (above) is from almost 2 years ago; there may be 20 months of additional changes. Someone is messing with us.
DirtyFloorHotDogs
The copy I was reading was online after googling "watts discovery". I have to go through my printed copy to see if there's a difference between the two. So there are copies of the unredacted version out there?
debinambiocry
No, on contrary - it weirdly seems like all available copies get additional redactions. Jimeva in the video made screenshots so she found her mind was not playing games with her.
DirtyFloorHotDogs
I printed it out in 2019. So at least that one can't change. I wonder why the additional copies are getting redactions. This whole case is just getting weirder with all its secrecy and cover ups.
debinambiocry
Makes no sense to put e.g. fridge temperature photo of 8/13 in discovery and then to redact it but keep the nude photo of that woman who wrote to Chris. I wonder why she doesn't sue the State, LE, or whoever was in charge for such privacy invasion. Her neighbors would recognize her if they read the Discovery now.
Here is "you wanna to go back to high school" still there on TCRS:
DirtyFloorHotDogs
There are two instances where CW says it was the turning point. The first
was when he went for the weekend camping trip at the sand dunes. The
other was the Lazy Dog dinner. I think it was during his February 2019
"chat" where he said those were the beginning of the end. I find that he
tells on himself (as most people who lie do) and gives hints here and
there. I just find it interesting how both of those happen to be times
CBI refused swabs from Bella and Cece and all fingernail clippings, which is discussed in this video at the 3 hour 6 minute mark:
And it is discussed in more detail in this video at the 1 minute 26 minute mark:
CBI instructed the Frederick PD to dispose of this evidence, which is discussed in this video at the 1 hour 52 minute mark:
Regular police officers from the small PD in Frederick collected evidence, not forensic teams from CBI. The CBI didn't collect any evidence from the Watts home on Tuesday or Wednesday, before releasing the crime scene on Wednesday, 8/15.
Armchair Detective's “direct source” to CW was Heather. Her youtube channel is called UnMurdered. She is the reason why AD kept saying CW was sending him cryptic messages and emails asking for help. It was discovered that letters between Heather and CW had stopped in September 2020 and that she was making stuff up.
Apparently, Dave, AD and Bubbles knew Heather was fake but didn’t care as long as the scam carried on. They pretended to be “duped “ when Heather and her scam with them was outed by the Rzuceks.
Breaking Views wrote on youtube:
They [AD's members] hate, detest and loathe NK to the point they’ve become obsessive and AD has deliberately fostered that in them. They’ll throw all amounts of cash at him in the hope they see NK dragged on her hands and knees to jail. Gotta hand it to him, he’s been very clever in how he’s secured his incoming cash flow. It’s like a drug to those women now; they MUST have their twice daily hate fest and he does nothing but profit from it. And he HATES the Rzuceks because he thinks they sold themselves on TV so why can’t he?! Absolute GREED is what drives him.
PeggySueGotMarried wrote on youtube:
Ever since bubble bum came along he's gotten worse. She writes his scripts now and it seems he's turning evil!! I don't tune in anymore because not only will he destroy himself but bubbles will take over his channel because she's greedy and wants him gone and that's what her game plan is and we all know it.
yannie grannie wrote on youtube:
I agree totally. Bubbles comments about AD's inability to follow conversation etc. shows she really thinks he is quite stupid, for sure in her mind he is beneath her. She is in the process of making him ruin himself by taking her advice and then when he goes she already has this great base to fraud. She lied on panel saying she doesn't get paid, but if she owns the red channel all it takes is for Alan to lose his blue account and presto she has the red and can carry on with or without him.
YT Kimberly wrote on youtube:
AD lives rent-free in your head. Take your hand and spread your fingers out. Now slap your hand onto your face and leave it there. That's what obsession looks like and in case you missed it - AD represents your hand in this exercise. Now, you can walk around with it for the rest of your life if you choose but you're not hindering AD, you are only hindering yourself. Do creators get fed up with the hate from time to time - ABSOLUTELY. Of course AD has humility. You may be able to recognize it if you just removed your own hand that's blocking your ability to see clearly. How very sad it is to hate anyone. Your comment is rude and unwelcome.
Amanda Soileau wrote on youtube:
By the time August 12th arrives, we won't hear him [Armchair Detective] speaking of this [his book being published] anymore. He knows he can't provide the product(s) he's hyped his subs into paying for, so he's just going to stfu about it, relatively soon, and hope no one bothers calling him on it, especially the people he has stolen from AGAIN. It's what happens EVERYTIME... with his fake insiders, fake books and documentaries of past.
And, he'll get away with it AGAIN!
He just got caught
with a script for his content going back 8 months and going forward 2 months on shite
that he hadn't even claimed happened yet... and N-O-T-H-I-N-G. They've just
continued on their "make a scammer famous" journey, conjured up new
"HUGE projects" to swindle donations from their "stupid as a
stick" subs and now NO ONE is talking about the biggest incident and
evidence to date PROVING that he's nothing more than a liar, thief, scamming
con in search of relevance. Nope, no one is speaking of that anymore... we are
now on to a BOOK and DOCUMENTARY... he's scamming to evade getting caught
scamming, and apparently we just follow along like it's normal.
He's going to make ONE GREAT BIG FUSS AND BLAME, ONCE OR TWICE, about how he was cheated out of the book deal because of trolls or he had a health crisis or some shite, and then... NOT A GOD DAMNED THING.
And everyone everyONE EVERYONE will just follow him on to the next GREAT, GRAND, BRILLIANT AD GEM OR JEWEL! Doesn't matter which side they're on, they'll just move along in unison with him, and in 10 weeks no one will remember Barnes and Noble.
THIS IS WHAT HIS SUBS ARE PAYING FOR. THIS IS WHAT THEY
WANT... REAL TIME, REAL LIFE DRAMA... SO THAT THEY DON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH
THEIR OWN.
And it's no longer possible for some people to actually hold him accountable now because some have followed suit and raised money from subs and supporters for the specific purpose of going after him... and, N-O-T-H-I-N-G.
And, just as in the case with Alan, no one asks the only reasonable question... where's all the money?
No, instead, continuing to follow suit, just a month ago... asking for donations for the SAME cause... outrage, pain, turmoil over AD and his lies and abuse of victims.
I should just stfu here because I
don't have the time to deal with ignorant hateful sheep on EITHER side of this
"scam". But I'm so effin fed up with this, so let's continue on a bit...
If the victims don't do anything, then nothing will be done. They won't, so maybe they (not all, some) could stop dragging all of us through their anger and frustration and outrage over Alan. No one, but they, have the public and legal power to stop him... they've raised over $10k to do so... it won't happen.
And I don't want to hear bullsh about what happens behind the scenes and legal matters take time and he's in the UK and attorneys cost way more than that... STOP.
You have no idea who you're spinning these "fantastical tales" to. There is NOTHING in the works; however, wanting to keep us riled up and pssed off brings a sense of unity in hardship, comfort in their pain and anguish over what this low life POS continues to do.
No doubt they have the right to be outraged. It's repulsive and reprehensible, but... do SOMETHING or let it go.
It's almost 3 years, that's too long dealing with bullsh...
It would NOW be in the families best interest to ignore this dumb, uneducated, illiterate, self adoring, egocentric, 70 year old petulant childman (psyche over physiology) of IRRELEVANCE. The time to act has long passed... they know it and I presume the "means" are no longer available.
Much to their credit, Mr. and Mrs. are intelligent, dignified and graceful people who are guided by their faith. They trust in God because they have the patience and discernment to understand His will for them. They are wise enough not to personally finance a battle that, FOR WHATEVER THE LOGICAL REASON, won't take place. And again, I presume other financial means are no longer available... my gut feeling, my opinion, my belief... whatever t.f.
No one has stopped to recognize that the victims, as well as the creators trying to fight a battle they are NOT, and those of us who keep speaking out in disgust...
WE are bankrolling AD. If we went silent for 6 months, he'd have no more viewership and he'd be gone.
Those idiots who support him are
not doing so FOR JUSTICE OR TRUTH, they do it because of the hate and vitriol
going back and forth. They are paying for entertainment and we provide them
with INTERACTIVE DRAMA, like effin reality TV or some shite.
YouTube will never do anything about this kind of stuff. It's petty to them, number 2... AND, NUMBER ONE, they know that people are more motivated to interact and quicker to react to THE NEGATIVE. Who isn't in a hurry to post a bad product review after a negative experience, but a good review... well it can wait until later, or never. It's human nature.
YouTube
knows it so they won't put a STOP to the bad and the ugly... THEY PROMOTE IT,
THEY RELY ON IT. It's how they make their $$$$$.
As for any creator whom Alan has personally attacked or
wronged in someway... Go get him. I think you should do everything you can to
keep the heat up and the spot light on his wrongdoing. Just make sure that you
are doing it FOR YOU... your integrity, your good name, your desire to rid
YouTube of HIM, even if an unlikely victory - a noble cause, nonetheless.
Rant Over. I feel like the appropriate thing would be to apologize for "something," but I don't believe I have anything to apologize for, so doing so would certainly be inappropriate. TIME FOR BASEBALL!!
Light house wrote on youtube:
* Misplaced Anger *
I don't want to come accusing but instead offer some healthy food for thought to soothe everybody. I am just wanting to shed light to where the arrows are mis-hitting their target. Never said her family wasn't under serious fire & justifiably hurting. But how to handle a very real attack in a way that is effective is at hand & making sure to have the true source of pain. Anything less is a good waste of time & resource & just passing your pain along.
As the saying goes, choose your battles carefully.
Scripture speaks of this as speaking the truth in love (because most often truth is spoken in anger & hate which doesn't help). Whoever you are targeting may have no intent to harm you. There's an art to setting the record straight without doing the very same thing your opposition is doing -- hurling insults. Taking a good look in the mirror first to make certain not to just project onto a perceived enemy what I myself am doing or have done.
Connie Jones
Sounds like Jr is adduced to the drama. Can’t face his grief. People who love him need to stop joining him and help him heal. This is so not going to help him. So sad.
Light house
Yes, just bleeding all over the place!
Bette's Bush
@Light house And still pursuing his dream of altering the First Amendment to the US Constitution by shutting down youtube creators who talk about his family; and obsessing only over AD. The solution is for the family to ignore youtube. They don't seem to have a problem ignoring websites created to bash their daughter and ignoring subreddits that spread nonstop hateful things about Shanann.
Light house
@Bette's Bush Yes, it's really weird & makes little sense. The only valid complaint they make is the tossing around of possible theories where things do not make sense. But this is what true crimers do. And he has taken measures to be sensitive where family members are concerned.
Light house
@Bette's Bush Been hoping You Tube makes a policy to not allow mention of other creators on channels to halt the mudslinging. We really don't want the 1st amendment messed with for the sake of truth seeking in true crime & elsewhere.
Bette's Bush
@Light house Yes, it's what true crimers do with all cases, not just the Watts case. The worst with the Watts case in blaming the victim, SW, are certain bloggers and subreddits, but the Rs don't say anything about this, perhaps because no money is being made.
Light house
@Bette's Bush Most creators make little to no $ on You Tube. It seems more a tool to dig at certain persons. But gross hypocrisy for sure as the accusers have positioned themselves to benefit profit-wise more than anyone. Not to mention they are holdouts on truth to prove the crime was done singlehandedly by the former son in law, which only serves to stir the pot of suspicion. Typically people who have the truth just spill it, to deliver themselves of speculation. In this case it seems more like game playing. Both seeding/feeding the curiosity & making hypocritical accusations/threats to stop questioning the case.
Bette's Bush
@Light house So true. The Rzuceks have said multiple times that the family has proof that CW acted alone but they have no intention of sharing it with the public. If they really have proof, why else, other than what you suggest, would they not share it? It would help put an end to the speculation and theories.
Light house
The holding of truth by the family & flaunting that, taunting with it is gross! Making out like they are angry for the circus they have helped to create & now they are greater victims than ever before. They said it on MRB when she was reading out the so called "script" with them live.
magiclougie
It seems the Rzuceks' proof that NK wasn't involved comes from MartinJDeehan (see the comment section of this blog post). Who is this man and why is he controlling the narrative for the "truthers" on youtube? Has he been assigned to "handle" Frankie?
MartinJDeehan wrote on reddit: "I personally had briefings with FBI almost on a daily basis... I speak to Frankie on a daily basis."
So, MartinJDeehan, a Norwegian musician, talks to the FBI almost daily. And then he shares this inside info with Frankie, who MartinJDeehan speaks to on a daily basis. And, apparently, this is how the Rzuceks have solid proof that NK was not involved. And the Rzuceks have proclaimed that they will never share this info with the public, yet they want everybody to stop talking about the case.
According to Daniel Bishop: "Frankie Rzucek has worked with Martin Deehan, who is also in contact with NK's mother and family members but the Rzuceks are totally cool with that."
MartinJDeehan presents himself on youtube as being a member of the power punk band The Yum Yums from Oslo, Norway (since 1993).
Light house
Saw that FR's threat video has been either removed from YT or taken down by his own choice. So that's a victory! If we continue to report videos & comments that are over the line of abuse, it will greatly help. I only started this recently. Most of us are just too kind & that's a problem. Too passive. So the squeaky wheel as they say! Voices Behind the Veil (Cher) I saw also came out of the mob & openly apologetic towards AD & has a story to tell. Not sure if I can mention other channels or not. My diagnosis for this whole mess ~~~ growing pains!
Hate justifies our feelings to set out to destroy our perceived opposition, often not allowing for adjustment for anyone to grow & do something better. When much of our troubles stem from battles within our own hearts & minds. Scripture says to remove the plank first from our own eye & then we can help someone else with the splinter in their eye. We need to acknowledge our own. Then God will hear our prayer & answer.
– JayIs4Justice Podcast obtained audio of a Chris Watts' jail-house call with his girlfriend & a private investigator.
– Chris references studying in law library & discusses potential plans to file paperwork under ’35c’: Colorado’s Post-Conviction Relief, which is a way to attempt to vacate verdicts.
– Believes it was “God’s plan” for him to go to prison
– Says “I just want to get out of here”
On September 29, 2020, ‘Jay Is 4 Justice Podcast’ channel published a prison phone recording with Chris. During the 15 minute audio, Chris speaks with two individuals: an unknown male, labeled as a ‘Private Investigator’, and a female named Anna, who was allegedly Chris’ girlfriend at the time.
[Begin Chris Watts Prison Phone Call Transcript]
Private Investigator (Male Caller): Hey Buddy, how’s it going?
Chris Watts: Not too bad. Thanks for taking the call.
Private Investigator: Yeah, is it just you, or is Anna on also?
Anna: I’m here too.
Private Investigator: Alright, cool. Alright, so just talk to me. I don’t want a big, long, monopolizing conversation, so…. tell me what you want to know from me. Just tell me what’s on your heart.
Chris Watts: Well, you know, just going to the law library as much as I have, I’ve seen a lot of cases, I’ve heard a lot of cases around here–I’ve seen a lot of cases where the D.A. or the judge have had a lot of misconduct, but the judge has ruled it’s not egregious or it’s not that well or accurate enough to really play in the defendant’s favor. I’m looking at the things that I know…I mean, I’ve never I mean… I’ve never dealt with the law school [unintelligible] I’m winging it in the law library as I am. And you know, God directed me through little things, like through the poisonous tree, The Brady Law, and different cases that, you know, they pop out of nowhere, but I know if God put them in front of me, and I see all these things that relate to my case. I just don’t know, like, how to frame this? Where, like, when I do the 35c [Note: 35c is a reference to pursuing Colorado’s Post-Conviction Relief in an attempt to vacate verdicts or sentences] I’ve had this paperwork with me for probably a couple months. I know all we have is a year left to appeal some of those Class B and C felonies that have a three-year limit and a two-year limit. And I really want to figure out where I can do it in the right time frame, but also like not rushing anything and…. I just, I’m gonna tell you something, I just wanna get out of here. I know that God has a plan for me and it’s not—it’s to be in prison right now, but not major . Cause he brought me here for a reason, but he obviously wants me to do something on the outside, and I know I can’t just sit here and just wait. I know there’s waiting doing nothing, and there’s waiting that I’m seeking an action verb, that’s what I’m doing. But I also wanna know, like, what action to take ‘cause I have no…no intellect when it comes to the law. But I know He can teach me. And that’s what I’m just waiting for, things to fall into place. I just don’t know how to do it.
Private Investigator: I got you. Um…and you don’t have the benefit of an attorney that is in your hip pocket, so to speak. Okay. I’ve got a couple attorneys here I can talk to that can maybe help, you know, get some good results…get some good advice for you in terms of forms and what to say, things like that. That’s not gonna be an overnight process for me to, you know, get the results, you know, we want. It’s going to take some time. But I’m not saying overnight, but I am saying maybe several days to a week or so.
Chris Watts: Okay.
Private Investigator: So let me see what I can do along those lines. I know you’re in a tough spot and– how do you know how to do something when you don’t know what it is you need to do?
Chris Watts: Exactly.
Private Investigator: So, it’s tough. So, I get it.
[Crosstalk]
Chris Watts: —but I know when the law, like, you’re gonna run into certain things where the motion’s gonna get denied, or like whatever I write down they just might think “…well, that’s not…what you’re claiming isn’t enough to go back to you’re not [unintelligible] want a mistrial. you’re not wanting to have this appeal granted. You know, denied”. And I’m just like, well, what do I do then? You know?
Private Investigator: Yeah.
Chris Watts: And I just…I don’t want to get hit hard when that happens. I know it will probably happen at some point. Not all motions or all appeals are granted. But [unintelligible] they’re like ‘Wait’. When it goes there they see like oh well. It’s like, do I put everything down that I know? Or just like…I don’t want to put everything down so they know everything that I’m on, you know?
Private Investigator: Well okay, let me address a couple things in what you just said. First of all, you live in a closed society now. Every door is shut in your face. You cannot go from one–you go to one wall, you can’t go further. You’ve got to turn to your left, you can’t go any further so, you know what I’m saying? You’re in this perpetual…this room with no doors, so you cannot get through. You go that, you understand that? What I’m trying to say?
Chris Watts: Yep.
Private Investigator: Your world is controlled. You hear the word ‘No’ probably more than you hear the word ‘Yes’ in that system. So one thing you need to be very accustomed to is being denied. Being turned down. Being told no. You with me?
Chris Watts: Yep.
Private Investigator: Okay. Now, some people will lose hope very, very quickly because everywhere they turn, every time they talk to someone, they’re hearing things they don’t want to hear. They’re being told no. You can’t have this, you can’t have that. You can’t go here, you can’t go there. You know, you’re a—whatever legal action you’re trying to do—
[Automated recording cuts in]—attorney calls may be monitored and recorded.
Private Investigator: —whatever you’re trying to do you’re always being told ‘No’. What you can’t do is allow yourself to lose hope Don’t take no for an answer! And don’t give up the first time you’re told no. You understand?
Chris Watts: Yeah.
Private Investigator: So they key in all this is you gotta be strong. You gotta be physically strong, you gotta be mentally strong. And you got to understand that you know what, you’re the underdog… but underdogs can win. They can be a dog in the fight. So I want you to get this attitude that no matter what you do, we’re not gonna take no for an answer. They tell us no, we’re gonna try again. They tell us no again, we’re gonna try again. You just gotta keep persevering and don’t lose hope, okay? Cause I tell you what, you lose hope, you lose your life. Alright?
Chris Watts: Yep.
Private Investigator: So just keep a positive attitude about all that, and don’t take any steps back, just keep moving forward, even if it’s a small step, move forward and not backward, okay?
Chris Watts: Okay. Just like in my Devotional today it was Esther it was that door of hope, and yeah. The Lord was speaking to Esther and she was saying to The Lord I’ve led you to the wilderness, but I will plant in that wilderness vineyards and you’ll go through the valley and quarrel with the valley of trouble, I’ll put a door of hope. Even though you’re in the wilderness and he’s gonna put nightmares in that wilderness and put you in the valley of trouble, there will be a door of hope in that trouble.
Private Investigator: That’s great. Well, I’m proud of you. Good job. Keep that up, keep your nose in that book, too.
Chris Watts: I will.
Private Investigator: Yeah.
Anna: So Chris, what were you saying before we got cut off about, ah, when he asked I can’t remember what it was, but you were talking about the evidence and your confession that wasn’t true.
Chris Watts: I just feel that I’ve never experienced anything like that before. From the custody that happened, from the law enforcement to the interrogation, the jail, the prison. All this is still heavy. I know that… did happen before, I knew the shock and the trauma was there in my mind. I didn’t know how to process things. Every question that they asked me, I was just agreeing with them and going along with what they cause I was like ‘well, guess I have to tell them something’. And, you know when they came here to prison and interrogated me, they were in their street clothes acting like, you know, they were just talking to me…where in retrospect, they were actually interrogating me again. I know for a fact that, you know [unintelligible] so all that is like, null and void. Still, they’re going to try to use all this stuff against me. But I know that from that interrogation to the first one, all that was like a coercive type psychological intimidation of someone that, you know, had never been in that situation before, and they used that to their advantage.
Private Investigator: Well Chris, what you witnessed first hand is a game. It’s like getting back to the old biblical days where you’ve got the big Roman soldier in the pen with the little guy and you’re fighting for your life and you don’t know what to expect, but you just–that’s a terrible analogy and I’m sorry, but I’m just saying you just didn’t know what was going on.
Chris Watts: No.
Private Investigator: And it’s a game that’s why I tell so many people this a game that they’re playing. You are the prey, they are the hunter. You’re the prey and they’ve got you exactly where they want you and most times they’re gonna get what they want because you know what? They keep you for hours, they deprive you of your basic needs and every second that you’re with them in that chair and they’re bearing down on you, your mind is actually deteriorating. Your mind is playing games against you and that’s why we have so many times where people give confessions for things that they just did not do. It’s because you know what, they want to get out of there. They want to just tell ‘em what they need to know, what they’re asking, what they’re interested in so they can get out and go home. Well you know what? Guess what doesn’t happen? They don’t go home, and their life is forever changed. So—
Chris Watts: Yeah. Again, after I told them what they wanted to here then they offered me food.
Private Investigator: Exactly.
Chris Watts: So it was strange. The thing I know–like what you’re talking about playing a game– ‘cause when the CBI Agent and the FBI Agent…like, when the CBI…a woman, when she like, questioned me for hours, and after those hours of interrogation she puts a polygraph up. And then I’m like, you know, exhausted at this point…and then after that I’m sitting in there alone and I hear them outside the door, you know, the FBI Agent comes up “Oh, how did you do?”. And, she said, “Oh, he did pretty good, but I think we can get some more out of him”. And they come in with this game face saying “Okay, you lied”. I’m thinking to myself ‘Wait…I thought she just said I did pretty good?’. And I didn’t question them about it, I just believed what she said. They said I failed. But I know, I know for a fact she said “he did pretty good but I think we can get some more out of him”. I’ll only think about this stuff way after it happened. And I was like, wow!
Private Investigator: Chris, that’s a little game and I can tell you for a fact that they did not administer the polygraph in the proper way. You should have been on the top of your game mentally, spiritually, physically when they gave you that polygraph. You should have had a good night’s rest before they gave you that polygraph. So, I don’t trust the polygraph. I don’t trust the results, and they use that as a hammer over your head to scare you. Because the polygraph scares everyone! Because of its reputation. We can talk more about that later.
Chris Watts: Yeah. (Sighs) Well, thank you for taking another call. I think I have only like 30 seconds left, but I know that, you know, God can lead me on how to write this thing up to get it back. And I just thank you for helping me and just going through that discovery. I mean, you don’t have to do it but you’re doing it. I just believe that God can lift liberation on your heart and it’s really gonna [unintelligible] so you know what to do.
Private Investigator: Good. And we’re with ‘ya.
Anna: Alright, he got cut off.
Private Investigator: Alright. Okay. Um, next time that you need me to come online, Anna, do this: call me and then if I don’t answer immediately, text me.
Anna: Okay.
Private Investigator: So, I have to tell you my phone screws up sometimes and I don’t want to miss a call or a text, so, just as a backup plan.
Anna: Okay.
Private Investigator: Alright, is there anything we need to talk about?
Anna: Ahh, nope. I’m just gonna call his parents now and let them know.
Private Investigator: Okay.
Anna: Okay, sounds good.
Private Investigator: Alright, just stay in touch with me.
Anna: I will, and if he calls back and wants to talk again then I’ll just text you or call you.
Private Investigator: Alright, sounds good.
Anna: Okay, thank you.
Private Investigator: Alright, thank you.
Anna: Yeah.
Private Investigator: Alright, bye-bye.
Anna: Bye-bye.
[End Chris Watts Jail Phone Call Audio Transcript]
https://crimelights.com/chris-watts-new-prison-call-transcript/
Frankie Rzucek Jr
I didn't know my speech was slurred [in his police interview, video below], I wasn't on medication and STILL haven't taken anything since my family was murdered. When my dad and I went to Colorado it was to go to court to file official charges on cw, and to pick up my family's dead bodies and fly them back home with us under the plane. My nieces bodies were so toxic due to what their poor bodies were in for 3½-4 days, they had to go on a separate plane. So my sister and one of her children were on our plane and the other (we don't know who) was put on a connecting flight. We tried to fight it but it was flight regulations, they didn't want an explosion.
Any way, after court and seeing cw for the 1st time since we found out he killed my family, my father and I went back to out hotel and waited for the FBI to come interview us. Idk if you seen my eyes in court but they had huge bags underneath them, I hadn't slept in over a week due to hellish nightmares, watching and hearing my mother and father sob like I've never heard before.. My brain was trying to realize this was for real, my ONLY SISTER, ONLY NIECES, and ONLY NEPHEW that no one ever got the chance to meet. Well other than talking to him through my sisters belly when she was here.
My Dad gave his interview first and I had to wait in the lobby of the hotel. I had fallen asleep on the couch because I was absolutely exhausted. My dad and FBI woke me up and I went to give my interview. My mind, emotions, everything was all over the place. I guess that's what happens when your family is brutally murdered by someone you loved, trusted, and hugged just a week earlier.
I tell ya what, all these wanna-be Dickectives that have NO IDEA what it's like to loose someone to MURDER let alone more than half our family like we have. We had just had a funeral for one of my favorite uncles a few months earlier, he died of Alzheimer's. Then my family was murdered, and on Christmas eve my other favorite uncle had a heart attack, they brought him back but it was too late, he stayed alive on machines for a few days, then we had to unplug him. We have had to make that decision with about 6 of our family members in my lifetime.
Oh I almost forgot that my Dad and I received friend request from cw the moment we got out of court and called my mom to tell her what was going on. Then the harassment started. We had to deal with HUNDREDS of media companies calling, texting, emailing, and showing up at our door, and camping in OUR FRONT YARD. It had gotten so bad that I had gotten my friend who's dad was a sheriff to patrol our neighborhood to stop then from hounding us.
I'm sure everyone knows about the woman "reporter" who called and pretended to be my aunt about 10 minutes after WE READ ON THE INTERNET THAT MY BROTHER IN LAW KILLED MY FAMILY AND HAD ADMITED TO IT. YES THE REAL DETECTIVES DIDNT EVEN GET A CHANCE TO CALL US YET AND TELL US PERSONALLY. I'M SURE THEY WERE PREPARING THEMSELVES ON HOW TO BREAK IT TO US.
ANYONE WHO THINKS IT'S OK TO PICK ON ME, SLANDER ME, TORMENT ME, HARRASS ME, AND SO ON, THERE'S A SPECIAL PLACE IN HELL FOR YOU. THAT I DO KNOW.
The pos in the video forgot to mention that his minions like Daniel had been harassing and slandering me weekly for the past year and a half, if not longer. I actually forgotten about him until someone's showed me the video he had just made about me. I knew he was just looking for attention so I ignored it, like I do the rest of the evil punks. I had commented on someone's channel who was talking about him making ANOTHER GFM. So I commented saying, "what do you know, he's making ANOTHER go fund me, and he had the nerve to talk about my ONE go fund me that I made to hire lawyers".
I haven't come out to defend myself against these people because I don't stoop to their level, I just hand all the evidence to my attorney's. PERIOD.
THEY WANT THE FACTS, THERE IT IS
Frankie Rzucek Jr
Just think, this was only the first week after my family was killed. Now just think about everything else we've been put through EVERY SINGLE DAY SINCE this happened. We're lucky that we're still here to be honest, I don't even know how we've been able to deal with all of this ADDED BULL💩. But yet I'm the "bad guy" because I'VE HAD ENOUGH OF THIS EVERY SINGLE DAY TORMENT THAT MY FAMILY AND MYSELF HAVE HAD TO ENDURE.
I WILL NOT EVER STOP STANDING UP FOR MYSELF AND MY FAMILY, THATS WHAT REAL MEN DO.
Aboma Desalegn
@Frankie Rzucek Jr bro you didn't need to explain yourself. Anyone with logic and moral would understand, and A.D has none. Remind yourself that you won't get anything good from him so you won't be upset. He is doing this to get back at you and create more Drama so he can get his worthless book sold. I listened to it bro, wow. I was amazed by your true Character. You were comforting CW sister when you were the one that needed comforting. It clearly back fired on him. His owns subs were going after him. He is losing, and just be patient.
Much Sunshine wrote on youtube about AD reviewing Frankie Jr.'s police interview:
Everything is about him [AD]. Even the death of Bishop's step dad.
How many times has he told that story about Dr Phil? He's a complete bore.
He wants the parents to stop?
Yet he can continue exploiting a solved and closed case?
Imagine for a minute that your only daughter, and your only grandchildren are murdered. Then imagine a greedy, soulless old con man begins exploiting your deeply personal tragedy. It's obvious he's doing it for cash, so you publicly ask him to stop. Instead, of stopping, he accuses you of selling out to cover up for the "real killer." He then twists the narrative that he cares more about justice for your murdered family members than you do!
Meanwhile, when he's not telling the same boring stories for SuperChat, he's drinking, gambling, and watching mother-daughter incest porn.
A more despicable man doesn't exist.
Kybele Kordax
The man is despicable, playing the victim, using a horrific series of murders as "a soap opera" to line his pockets, and attacking the family. AD, stop your vile scam! Just stop!
Armchair Detective (AD), at the video link below, requested: "If you have been used as an ATM by Jr. [Frankie], please contact me."
AD said he has been contacted by two women so far, one being Kelley (videos below). Apparently Frankie Rzucek Jr. also did this to Molly Golightly.
Kelley said around the 2 hour 2-minute mark that Frank Sr. refunded the money she had given to Frankie Jr. It had nothing to do with the gofundme: it was separate from that. Frankie Jr. said he needed lumber for his construction business, parts for his truck, his dog was sick, he needed to get his mom a Mother's Day gift. etc. (2 hour 11-minute mark).
I understand the money was returned to you [Kelley]. That is not the point though. No grown man should ever go to a single working mother for money. What people need to understand is a person could have issues and faults before a tragedy happens in their family circle. Once the tragedy happens it doesn’t make the family of the victim a saint. Frankie Jr had issues before the death of his family. I don’t want to sound harsh but he seems to have free access to abuse but people aren’t allowed to answer back to defend themselves. Wrong on all levels.
Southern Lady
Sorry he took from you too. He did this to Molly GoLightly-Marissa.
Executive Session
So brave of you. I can’t imagine how hard this was. I felt this pain that night on panel. I wanted so bad to do the right thing and I was still attacked daily. But not only by the “Watts Island” people, but still by the “truthers”. It hasn’t been pleasant. And I’ve stepped back for a while and it’s opened my eyes a lot. Especially talking with other victim families. They’ve expressed that this isn’t behavior that should be accepted. And I never once said they took a payoff or any money. Never. No one can show a clip or a message because it doesn’t exist. And the billboard was a simple idea when I first started to try to get the DA to investigate whoever else may be involved. But we NEVER raised a dime or even started a fundraiser. I said I didn’t want my name on it and it was an idea. People just lie. I have never once said a single bad word about the family. Not once.
I’ve fought with friends that are creators because they suggest CW didn’t kill them. I’ve made enemies for that. I have no doubt CW is 100% guilty. But my experience still raises questions about accomplice(s). I’ve never platformed the Shanann bashers and I never will.
But I tried to listen to the family and just stop talking about the case entirely. Again, I was still attacked. So why should I?
Asking authorities to explain the mistress discrepancies is NOT defending CW or attacking the family. It’s asking for full justice. I don’t expect you to like me. It’s ok. But you were very respectful and did the right thing that night. I was confused by what happened after I got off panel but it was horrible to watch. You were attacked for doing what they claimed for years to want. You got someone (me) to actually give up the case I was most passionate about. And you didn’t deserve to be hated for that. You deserved praise. I’m so sorry. I still enjoy your show and I wish you the absolute best. I mean that.
Maria R.
Thanks Larry, she's only tried to help and look how she's been treated. Sorry you got hate too. Time this hate should end.
PrettywithPistols
Very good stream - I think I was misunderstood - I was cooking and heard " victim's fund" and just was telling my experience- bad timing I think? It was nothing more than that- I'm on your side - I came from Molly's and know her experience with Noname, and that's just terrible. I don't understand it and said person's parents are, I hope, ashamed.
EmeraldKimmy
@Mary Vice the NYwarriormom Love you, too, Mary. You know, I just don’t understand it.
I thought AD was the one everyone hates and wants removed from YouTube. Is that not happening anymore? Is he vindicated now or is there some other reason everyone has given up trying to remove him? I’m confused. I thought everyone was supposed to stay the course, which is fine, except I thought that course was AD. This isn’t any of AD’s channels. This is Kelley’s channel. Is there some confusion?
If Kelley is the new target of what is unquestionably a hate campaign, then I guess not. This has become ugly and there is no justification for it. You, Kelley, Brooke and others who are being targeted like this do NOT deserve this. And don’t worry: even if I’ve gone quiet at times, by no means is that an indication of complete absence. Because I am here. And I am always in your corner.
FYI to those prone to adding what is not there: NONE of this is directed at the Rzuceks. I may not agree with something one or another of them has done, and I wouldn’t mind seeing them saying, “hey, this isn’t who we are, we may not associate with Kelley, but we don’t want to support attacking her like this.” But that’s up to them.
However, no one should have to say anything like that to these people. These people should know better. On their own. So as much as I’d like it if the family did say something like that, the fact is they shouldn’t be put in that position in the first place. We here all get that.
I wish the people determined to hurt Kelley would get that, too.
Mary Vice the NYwarriormom
@EmeraldKimmy it’s a cancel culture… Kelley won’t allow herself to be controlled anymore, that’s the bottom line.. I’m done for good now because nothing positive has come from supporting people... they’ll turn on the very people that stuck up for them for over two years… I will NEVER EVER allow this to happen in my life again… done. love u girl.
EmeraldKimmy
@Mary Vice the NYwarriormom That is completely understandable. I’m not sure why that’s so hard for people to grasp. How would they feel if a family they loved, cared about and tried to help just turned their backs on them, and then stood by and did nothing while they were on the receiving end of an exceptionally brutal cyber attack? No, the family should not have to be in that position. Unfortunately, it appears they are.
Why WOULD anyone want to extend themselves for someone only to have it thrown back in their face? It’s interesting that these people are worried about their reputations being tarnished because, then, the family won’t support them. Huh? I thought it was the other way around—supporting the family? That’s showing a lot of determination to please the family, but I have a question. If this is the kind of behavior they believe will impress this family and earn favor with them, what do they think that says about this family? How did they decide attacking someone so brutally is what will impress or please them?
I don’t understand how anyone can actually believe you’re this horrible person, Mary, because you’re not. I don’t say that lightly. How anyone can be so awful to you, I will never understand. My heart breaks for you and Kelley getting the brunt of it, and for the ladies being targeted and smeared, insulted and harassed.
They need to leave Amber and Cher alone, too. That includes Mr. Cher. Why can’t they just be happy for him and Cher? Why do they keep at these people like this? Why can’t they just walk away if they don’t like these people or their content?
Love you, too, Mary.
Mary Vice the NYwarriormom
@EmeraldKimmy she’s now being called a liar by them… unbelievable
EmeraldKimmy
@Mary Vice the NYwarriormom The family is calling Kelley a liar? Where?
Mary Vice the NYwarriormom
@EmeraldKimmy on MRBs channel [MommyRamblingsBlog] I swear Emeraldkimmy, I will NEVER get friendly with another’ victim’s family as long as I live… NEVER.
Buffalo Bangs
The Rzucek family is MRB's cash cow. She can't have them appearing on any other creator's youtube channel. Maybe that's why she was in chat along with Frankie Rzucek on Kelley's livestream. MRB may be giving the Rs a portion, if not all, of her youtube earnings on their videos together.
AD is getting his money from lonely older women. Frankie is getting it from other women, and he seems to want it all for himself, including AD's cut. And, as the Watts community on youtube aligns to takedown AD, Dave is positioning himself to step into AD's role and become the big kahuna (he's seems to be in every single chat, every day of the week, marking his territory and hijacking the channels of other creators, spewing random factoids and peacocking himself as the supreme authority on all things Watts).
These men would not think twice about leaving widows homeless and penniless by fleecing pensions and draining them of their life savings (retirement and bank accounts, home equity, etc.).
It's their job, don't cha know! They deserve to be compensated for being entertainers to the housebound, the disabled, the elderly.
They lure you in by calling you a member of their youtube family. Join my channel. Pay a monthly fee for the priveledge of chatting with me in a livestream. Send me superstickers in my superchats. We are family!
The majority of creators in the Watts case are women but it seems like the few male creators are the major breadwinners, and the impression is that they are narcissists preying on empathic women. All you women who are mods and co-creators with men, beware!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhixYXTImrA (video below)
Amber’s ALERT’s #thinkbeforeyoutype
Larry I remember the live of Kelley’s you went in and they came in and said “shut it down” . They did not even give you 24hr’s, they were making videos of stuff you had done prior the day after you said sorry. Made no sense to me. They pumped the hate up AFTER you apologized. Baffled me. Kelley took a lot of hate for that live and she was trying to have an open mind and talk to you. Honestly...I’ll never understand half the things that go on here. Lol
Executive Session
You hit the nail on the head. Kelley did the right thing and was so respectful. And I tried my hardest. The hate I continued to get was so confusing. It caused me hate from every side. But now it makes sense. So all I can do is be myself. I really enjoy Kelley’s content and she’s very caring. I will also continue to be an advocate for the victims when/if I ever discuss the case. But how she’s been treated has to be called out. It’s unfair and wrong. She’s obviously a hardworking single mother that was taken advantage of. My heart breaks.
Amber’s ALERT’s #thinkbeforeyoutype
@Executive Session Kelley got so much hate for simply having you on. I did not understand it bc I thought- wait a min, he is up here saying he is sorry and he wants to help, so why should it be shut down? Isn’t that the goal? I was new to Kelley’s channel and was really trying to understand it all. I will forever have the deepest sympathy for them, but I can’t help but have questions as to what is the end goal trying to shut down anyone whom wants to discuss the case? It’s sadly a world wide known case so I don’t think it’s ever gonna be possible to do that. But, yes, I’m like you, talking poor of Shannan and her babies is disgusting. But yeah it really confused the heck outta me when they pumped up the hate AFTER you said you were sorry. To me it seemed you genuinely wanted to help. Thank you for saying that of her. She deserves to have her truth out. Not right the amount of hate she is getting.
What's the link for when you were on with the Rzuceks?
Executive Session
Diane Marie
Legitimate question here. Why are the R’s so against AD. He always defends Shanann yet other channels go untouched by the R’s. There has to be more to it. I just have never understood their hatred of AD.
Executive Session
That’s a great question. I don’t understand it either and it seems obsessive.
Keri is so very
@Executive Session Maybe it’s because he makes up crazy stories as to how their daughter and grandchildren died. Every day it’s another lie for 3 years straight. I have been here from the beginning and he doesn’t leave them alone.
Scuba Gal
AGREE 100% sorry but the R family is bizarre & their treatment, slander, libel against a guy whose trying to get to the truth. I have a gut feeling they’re either jealous of AD's passion for their daughter getting full justice, maybe they don’t want to do more, maybe it’s too much work for them or they’re afraid of something coming out about their family because there is no logical reason for their disproportionate anger towards him AD.
Keri is so very
@Scuba Gal I hope you never have to experience what they have to experience. They have to listen to lies everyday. He is relentless.
Bonni MC
@Keri is so very I think the point was he isn't the only one covering this case relentlessly. I mean Lana and KK posted horrific things about Shannan and they are left alone by the R's. There are creators that have been covering this case for 3 years straight as well.
Keri is so very
@Bonni MC I get that but this person was asking why they are so angry with AD when he isn’t talking bad about Shanann. I am simply explaining why they are angry with him. He is full of crap! He comes up with a new theory everyday and brings new people into the case when they had nothing to do with it. He’s a liar and it’s obvious all he cares about is views. The family has begged him to stop. As far as Lana and KK, they don’t pay them any mind because they have said terrible things about their daughter. In my opinion, they probably haven’t even listened to them because of that.
Shakespeares Sister
If I were the Rzucek family I would be seriously meh about someone who has so many channels devoted to the murder of their daughter. And now a book!
The ❤ of 💰 is the ROOT of all EVIL. Greed is a terrible thing!
We Know What You Are replied in chat:
Every channel in the truth community knows what Kelly is saying is the truth but they’re all fighting over each other so much to be next spokesperson for the family that they dumped Kelley for it.
SyronJAG replied in chat:
If you didn't actually do anything wrong, DON'T APOLOGIZE. It gives them a position of power over you.
NavyVet replied in chat:
IMO if you continue to be a victim and never get past that mentality you will never become a survivor.
Scarlet Lady replied in chat:
I think a lot of people have seen this with Frankie but haven’t said anything because he’s the victim's family. He plays off of this.
Smiley replied in chat:
There is an agenda to take down AD, and some creators will do anything or anyone to reach that goal. The family is just a tool for these creators.
Maria R. replied in chat:
Yes YT definitely does promote abuse, the "truthers" create abuse, biggest bullies I've ever seen.
Rose🌹RNOG replied in chat:
SEE THAT RIGHT THERE IS THE PROBLEM. CHATTERS going from 1 live to another and lying. Stretching truth distorting it to cause drama.
Rose🌹RNOG replied in chat:
They threatened people to get their way. I think you can show your receipts @Kelly. Honestly Jr or Sr would show them. I know doesn't make ya feel good but people need to know.
Why not friend AD? He isn't doing anything that all these others are doing. He is just spot lighted because then a certain person can make a bunch of gofundme accounts for attorneys to "stop" him from talking about it. While they go on every channel they can, make movies for Netflix and create Youtube accounts of their own in effort to keep people talking about it. It is so obviou$ what is going on here. $$
Silver Orchid
@Kristina It is still happening - I saw it just a few days ago in one of the Truth Channels comments. Frankie Jr was commenting about how he is waiting for a crowdfunding link (to do with his lawyer - I'm not sure how crowdfunding works tbh). Some lady was sympathising with him and saying was there anything she could do to help. He said until he gets this crowdfunding link he 'only has his PayPal'.
I was concerned when I saw this because it was obvious what he meant even though he did NOT 'ask' for money. I think he has real problems with something and it doesn't take a genius to work out what that maybe!! And no wonder he has, after all he has been through!
I really don't care if the go fund me money hasn't been spent on what it was intended - I think most anything is understandable and forgivable in his/their situation, but it's not ok to keep doing it. If the money was for a lawyer something would be happening by now- a cease and desist at least. But the silence is deafening.
Kristina
@Silver Orchid I would not care about the gofundme either, if it was said and done, but like you, I and several have mentioned it is still going on. It is not ok to use the slaughter of your own family as a cash cow.
The reason they hate AD is because they want the money he is making to go to them. It just pisses Jr off that he is not getting it.
There are millions of people making money on youtube. AD isn't doing anything different than anyone else. Wrong behavior is wrong behavior.
I too have lost a child and it is hell, but I still have the same rules as everyone else to live by, and so do they. I mean look at what he did to Kelley, trying to get a single mom's last $80. He is doing this to a lot of women - note he singles out women to prey on. He knows exactly what he is doing.
Silver Orchid
@Kristina I agree - sometimes when I think about what happened to his sister and his nieces I get overcome by the horror of it all and I can't imagine how they get through the days! But to keeping asking/hinting for money isn't right regardless. Not under false pretences. He has a lot of subscribers to his channel - he could make money from his channel if he put his mind to it. I realise he may not want to do that but they're all on YT all the time anyway so...
Kristina
@Silver Orchid I agree with you 100%. I am not surprised that I got blocked asking about the progress of the "Lawyers". As far as other people saying "he is just human", it all boils down to the fact that he is still doing it. He didn't make a human mistake; he is actively scamming people out of cash.
There are no excuses. It has been 3 years of asking for money. If he was going to use it for the right purposes he would have by now. It is just like when Jewels of Thought asked for all that money for milo and then got her face shot up with fillers instead.
If people donate to a cause, the money should go to that and be accounted for. We are not picking on a victim; we are protecting innocent people from getting their bank accounts drained.
Bunny Rabbit
Kelley, I am very concerned over your safety. Not just you but others also, even AD. Kelley, the thing is, as we all are aware the family can support whomever they choose. It may be difficult to process, but it's a fact when we see exactly who they support. They are happy to support MD and Bam Bam's World in everything they say and do. I never did anything or say anything bad against the family, but I was blocked! But again, it's their choice. You have my support Kelley.
The Rzuceks go online to seek it out. They openly applaud and have asked for the bullying of people. Going after creators and even subs that comment. The doxing of people. Openly encouraged that people go real life and call (all hours) people's phones. Strangely, these behaviors are only really encouraged for the channel/creators/and subs that believe a specific person/people was involved. A person who was evidently quite skilled in getting Chris to open up about his marriage. I wonder how 'open' he got.
Although channels that openly suggest that SW had many 'issues' and that the first 'coerced' confession was right are left well alone. Odd no?
Recently, women are coming forward with stories of being used for money. One being a creator that clearly 'advocated' for 'the family,' saying her channel was now the family's. She would have zero reason to lie about that. She has showed the facts, yet now she is being accused of 'bashing the family'. Now that she is not willing to be used any longer, she's bashing.
In any other instance ,the behaviors she, and apparently others, have experienced would be called 'scamming.' Indeed, women are warned all the time about men who constantly come with desperate heart pulling stories of why they need to have you send them money. For me, a person doing that to anyone they have met directly through the death of their family, that has being affected so deeply by that, they are thinking they are supporting them, is utter emotional manipulation and disgraceful.
Now, to be hahahaha and lol'ing about THIS family's recent tragic, sudden loss? That is another level entitlement. Even a person who regularly 'critique's' Daniel's content in the comments acknowledged this sad event and shared his own personal loss and sent his condolences. In my opinion, displaying both good character and honorable behavior, despite his personal thoughts on this true crime case.
Lisa Avery
@Doing Life My Way Well said, love!! "Seek it out" to the point of APPEARING ON PANELS!! IMO, it's attention seeking behavior! For quite awhile now, nobody has even MENTIONED them! And Jr. is CERTAINLY irrelevant!! And, from what I've seen, EVERY SINGLE TIME that THIS happens (they're floating off into obscurity), they have to do SOMETHING to stay relevant!! This is probably the most attention Jr. has ever gotten in his life!! It can be addicting! It can ALSO be easy money!! Any talk about him had faded away because everyone was focusing on accomplices & the crime itself!
I'm sorry for everything that the R family has/is gone/going through! But there's ANOTHER ENTIRE FAMILY involved in this!! And THEY want answers! In other words, stop with the temper tantrums & trying to BOSS people around!! You're not the ONLY people involved! Shanann was a strong, independent, capable WOMAN! Meaning, SHE was an adult! She did NOT deserve what happened to her! But, as PARENTS, we feel AND SEE that there's been a HORRIBLE INJUSTICE that has been done to 3 BABIES!!! And THAT makes it OUR BUSINESS!!
Shay Be
I used to support the Rzuceks but watching them DAILY provoke things in the true crime community is beyond repulsive. They claim to be a Jesus loving family while spewing hate all over YouTube. For the life of me I can’t understand their juvenile behavior…smh. People have talked about high profile murder cases since the beginning of time, especially when there is a Netflix movies that the Rzuceks support and had a hand in!
Lori Smit
AD, it’s possible that Frankie and mom and dad could handle SW and the girls being killed in the house but once you found the shadow that changed everything. The family would have been so spent by that point and with the shadow info it was too much. They loved CW and can’t believe they got it so wrong. It’s much easier to blame you, someone they don’t even know. It’s just part of their grief.
Light house
Lots of support groups out there & online for those working through grief. Frankie Jr. was so early on in grief in the police interview. Definitely stuck in the anger phase of grief, but parents are too! I don't doubt they've had all sorts of crazy come at them in the public arena, all sorts of things done & said.
The anger part of grief definitely needs to be counteracted with acceptance of what has happened. It needs a definite decision to let go, get what terrible thing happened onto the alter, make peace that their lives have forever been changed.
Parents are stuck in anger right now also, so of no help, even hardens the process. He's been visibly scarred by the experience & it can affect someone's health. Only God can soften & heal their hearts!
Easy to get stuck in anger & it's gonna come out somewhere. So we lash out at those closest who may really care or some other vulnerable place because we can't seem to stop the pain. But no amount of outward victory will heal the hurt; it's an illusion. The battle within each heart & mind needs to find its true source of peace. And peace is the hallmark of faith. This is the place where healing & miracles happen. Surrender!
Dave of STWD has recently convinced a relatively new youtube creator covering the Watts case to give him privileges as a modulator on her channel, The Red X Crime Files. Additionally, he has thanked this creator, TJ, for also giving one of his mods a "wrench".
After creating division between TJ and her original co-creator Dani Dan, Dani Dan is gone, and, voila, Dave has stepped in, creating a toehold on TJ's channel.
Mods have power to delete comments, block people, etc., so a creator should be very wary of giving another creator this kind of authority. Here are two comments about Dave that explain why (he did the exact same thing he's doing to TJ to UnMurdered and Just Larry when they successfully launched their youtube channels).
Butterfly Sword wrote on UnMurdered's Channel:
Btw Heather, as he came in around 8:53, I noticed that Dave called someone a troll and I thought I also saw that he told your Mods to block them (it is freezing chat when I try to pause). He also thanked someone for being good in chat as if it were his place to oversee it. Then covered by making a self-deprecating remark; this boy is good...
I would strongly advise you to tell your Mods not to take direction from other creators, although of course the given reason will be that he was simply being helpful.
There are turf wars going on under the surface and if you read up on power and control games, a tiny incursion like that is how the thin end of the wedge looks when someone wants to create a toehold on your channel. Possibly you being female makes him perceive you as a soft target? (He certainly seems quite misogynistic, much more than the normal Australian man.)
For example, as you may know from your Justice studies, prisoners who want to gain a hold over one of the guards will begin by going just a hairbreadth over one of the boundaries, asking for a light or a slightly personal question.
Having observed Dave since the beginning, I suggest you keep him firmly in his box as a guest, and make it clear to your moderators that at all times, it's your channel, your rules. Whether that is in agreement with the guests or not.
Nicole McGregor Shone wrote on Just Larry's channel (now Executive Session):
With absolute respect to you, Larry, I honestly feel that Dave shouldn't have been as overbearing in YOUR live. Not only is it distracting but he's literally speaking over you, which undermines the professionalism of your channel. Most of us are aware of your integrity, your intelligence and achievements...don't let that be diluted.
Dave, you're still a newbie too...try not to blow out anyone else's light in order to make yourself shine brighter. No meanness intended. Egos need to settle before taking over others channels.
From Officer Perez's report:
Transcript from CW's first interview, starting near the end, at 10:30 PM on August 14th, with agent Coder.
Coder: If you're going to go to your friend's house, then we might not include you very much at your house. I'm going to try to leave you alone for the night but if we can't get into the house, if we find something we got to talk to you about tonight that can't wait [crosstalk].
[Coder leaves room at 22:30. Clock ticks for about 30 seconds and the video jumps forward 26 minutes to 22:56, at which time Coder reenters the room and thanks CW for letting him use his phone and hands it back to him.]
Coder: Umm, so, we're trying to figure this out without sending you home with a bunch of questions, right. We'd like to be able to tell you that this is our plan for tomorrow. So, so far it looks like some of the things we do at your house are better at night, some are better in the morning. So we're going to probably split the difference and start very early in the morning. Between now and the very earliest, in about 3-4 hours [current time is 22:58], right. Is it possible for you to not go home during that time to your house? Can you go straight to your friend's?
Chris: I'm going straight to my friend's from here.
Coder: OK. And then when you go straight to your friend's house, is it OK to ask that you don't go back to your house?
Chris: You just call me and give me your word.
Coder: I don't want to do two searches at your house because that will say to the public "probably cause" and if you guys are really interested in him - and then it's going to be a storm coming at you that we don't want, OK. So, we'll do that. We're going to send you home, go to your friend's house, get a good night's sleep, pick up your dad at 8 or 9, yeah?
[Chris and Coder talk about when Ronnie's flight is coming in.]
Coder: We'll see you at your friend's house. Again, I can't tell you that you cannot go in your house but I'd like you to not go in your house. If you can do that then we'll start early in the morning. I'll check in with you around 8 or 9. You'll probably be on your way to the airport, and then after that can you just come straight here.
Chris is extremely submissive toward Coder (video below).
Renee Zettek wrote in response to the video above:
Against my own feelings about this hate filled woman, Cindy Watts, I gave her the benefit of the doubt after the horrific & barbaric murders of CW's beautiful wife SHANANN, his innocent, vulnerable, precious, priceless & gorgeous little girl's, BELLA & CECE, and his precious baby boy NICO.
By thinking that both families have SUFFERED through an UNIMAGINABLE, TRAGIC, HORRIFIC, SHOCKING & A TREMENDOUS LOSS of LIFE of their 3 grandchildren & SHANANN.
But, this woman, Cindy Watts, is still as hate filled as ever.
The crap she continues to spew out against SHANANN is down right cruel & unbecoming of a grandmother.
I no longer feel sorry for her. She's still filled with VENOM. I've NEVER seen anyone, Mother, grandmother, go on national TV after her grandchildren & daughter-in-law were BRUTALLY & VICIOUSLY MURDERED, TALKING SMACK ABOUT SHANANN. MY DEAR LORD, WHAT'S WRONG WITH HER?
TYPICAL, LET'S BLAME THE VICTIM AND NOT THE PERSON or PERSONS WHO WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR THESE "UNSPEAKABLE MURDERS," INCLUDING HER PRECIOUS SON CW.
I DON'T CARE IF CW DID THE ACTUAL MURDER'S OR IF SOMEONE ELSE DID THE MURDERING. HE'S THE ONE WHO OPENED THE DOOR TO EVIL FORCES. MAKING HIM 100% GUILTY.
THE SIMPLE FACT REMAINS, THAT IF IT WASN'T FOR HER PRECIOUS SON KEEPING HIS DAMN PECKER IN HIS DAMN PANTS, AND "NOT" BECOMING A PATHETIC LIAR & CHEATER, THOSE PRECIOUS CHILDREN WOULD BE ALIVE, ALONG WITH SHANANN, INSTEAD OF IN BATTERIES FILLED WITH CRUDE OIL & SHANANN being thrown face first into a shallow grave.
IT'S DOWN RIGHT SICKENING & MAKES HER LOOK PATHETIC.
THE ONLY THING THAT I AGREE WITH HER ABOUT IS THAT THERE WERE ACCOMPLICES.
AND, THAT VERY POWERFUL PEOPLE HAVE BEEN & STILL ARE PULLING THE STRINGS.
There's far more to this story.
Unfortunately, full justice for SHANANN, BELLA, CECE & baby NICO will most likely never be met.
Thanks to those who were responsible for another cover-up, in a long list of the MASSIVELY corrupt Weld County prosecutor's office. Crucial evidence was either never collected, tested or lost.
This includes DA ROURKE, his team, Anadarko, who was, at the time, involved in a multibillion dollar negotiation to sell. AND, SEVERAL OTHERS.
This case is about as corrupt as our deep state government.
Cindy WATTS, seriously this woman needs to learn something about compassion.
Her hatred of SHANANN is extremely sad. She can't even hide it from anyone because her words & actions are so bitter, cruel & hate filled. It's down right sickening...
Isn't speaking ill of the dead a SIN?
THIS INCLUDES NK'S DAD, DWAYNE KESSINGER...WHO WAS LITERALLY CW'S BOSS IN 2017, AT ANADARKO...THIS IS WERE NK'S DAD MET & MARRIED NK'S STEPMOM.
NK'S FATHER LEFT ANADARKO IN 2017-2018. HOWEVER, NK'S FATHER WAS INDEED CW'S BOSS AT ANADARKO, for a bit.
AFTER DWAYNE KESSINGER LEFT ANADARKO, HIS WIFE, NK'S STEPMOM, WAS CW'S BOSS UP UNTIL THESE MURDERS OCCURRED. I'm not sure if NK's stepmom is still employed by Anadarko.
LYING, DA ROURKE CLAIMED IN A PRESS CONFERENCE THAT THE DATES THAT NK GOOGLED CW & SW IN 2017, A YEAR BEFORE NK WAS EVEN HIRED, WAS SUPPOSEDLY AN "ERROR" or a "TYPO"...
TURNS OUT THAT IT WASN'T A TYPO or an ERROR. AND, THAT NK INDEED DID GOOGLE BOTH CW & SW IN 2017.
BUT, HOW WAS THIS POSSIBLE. ESPECIALLY SINCE NK WASN'T HIRED UNTIL 2018.
LET ME EXPLAIN HOW IT CAME TO BE THAT NK INDEED GOOGLED BOTH CW & SW IN 2017.
HERE'S THE CONNECTION MY FRIEND'S...
BOTH NK'S DAD & STEPMOM WERE EMPLOYED BY ANADARKO. BOTH HAD BEEN CW'S BOSS.
NK WAS ALREADY PROMISED EMPLOYMENT AT ANADARKO, AFTER SHE GRADUATED FROM COLLEGE WITH THE DEGREE SHE NEEDED.
SO, NK'S DAD DWAYNE KESSINGER & HER STEPMOM...INVITED NK TO THE ANADARKO COMPANY PICNIC HELD IN AUGUST 2017.
NK WAS PERSONALLY INTRODUCED TO BOTH SHANANN & CHRIS WATTS AT THAT ANADARKO COMPANY PICNIC IN 2017.
THIS IS THE CONNECTION, AND THE ANSWER ON HOW WAS IT POSSIBLE FOR NK TO BE GOOGLING BOTH SW & CW IN 2017, BEFORE SHE WAS HIRED AT ANADARKO IN 2018. BOOM!!!
FROM THE MOMENT SHE MET CW AT THAT ANADARKO COMPANY PICNIC, SHE WAS INTERESTED IN CW. MORE LIKE LUSTED OVER HIM.
NK IS THE WORSE KINDA WOMAN. SHE KNEW THAT HE WAS MARRIED ALREADY IN 2017 BECAUSE SHE WAS INTRODUCED TO BOTH CW & SW...
BUT, THIS HATE FILLED MOTHER, CINDY WATTS, JUST CAN'T STOP HERSELF FROM TEARING SHANANN'S REPUTATION APART, OVER & OVER AGAIN. AND, TO WHOMEVER WILL LISTEN.
Susan Forster replied:
I watched this theory on The Red X Crime channel and Seeking the Truth with Dave (they collaborate and talk to the Watts). Some of the stuff they are saying is out of this world. Latest theory is Shanann was a hit, and they are going to start digging into her terrible past which nobody will like. They have gone too far. They say they are doing it for Shananm and the girls. Yeah right. They are saying Shanann had an affair. I can’t watch Dave anymore. Making something out of nothing . Don’t disrespect her memory. Let her Rest In Peace.
magiclougie replied:
Dave is all about the numbers and money, and he's convinced Red X to team up with him so she can make money too.
brenda redmond wrote on youtube:
Here is my problem with most True Crime YouTube Creators. When you become monetized and go live every single day earning revenue from super chats when there is NO new information on the case then it is YOU who have become the predator. Financial gain at the expense of the victim is WRONG.
Nothing was ransacked at her old house in NC. A house sitting on the market for 6+ months [the real estate bubble had just begun to burst] and her staying behind while Chris went to Colorado is hardly fleeing. BTW, the listing had furniture negotiable. It was probably cheaper than hiring movers to take it across the country.
Maybe SW's office in Colorado was always messy or she was murdered before she could get things in order after being gone for 6 weeks. Maybe Chris was looking for their passports or life insurance policies. Maybe it was her messy room. The babysitter remarked to her mother that the house was the messiest she'd ever seen it and that was with Chris in charge of the house when she was in AZ.
missivysplace54 replied:
Well maybe the rumours about her old house are wrong. This case is just us all repeating the information we are fed. I will say I don't have actually proof her old house office was ransacked. Are the rumours true that her old house was broken into three or four times before she fled?
Stacylynn1979 replied:
I don't think she was fleeing anything. I believe she had a post on her FB that said someone broke in once. I don't remember details about if it was ransacked or just a glass door that was broken.
Again a house being on the market for months and her waiting to go to CO with Chris isn't exactly fleeing, just moving.
I personally try to get most of the information from the discovery and stuff I can confirm on the internet from her FB or reliable sources (not YT or blogs). A lot of stuff gets repeated as facts which aren't at all.
There was no embezzlement from Dirty South and the case is available online.
missivysplace54 replied:
I agree there was no embezzlement or money laundering, I've seen the case. I too prefer getting information from the Discovery, relistening to interviews, digital data, GEOTAB data is excellent, drone footage etc.
NotBadSinger514 replied:
When they open the closet door in her office it looks like someone had been sitting in the middle of the closet floor, going through boxes
I know I'm commenting alot..I apologize..but it has also been said that NK's father was partners with Shanann's old boss and shit went bad and her boss owed NK's dad a shit ton of money and that's where Shanann got all that money to build her home in NC; and that they've been after Shanann for years...somehow NK was part of the break in at Shanann's NC home.
I'll try to make this as short and as understandable as I can. The burglary was in NC where Shanann built and bought her 1st home with a suitcase of cash...when she worked for Dirty South (this is all according to a fellow co worker of Shanann's from Dirty South).
Dwayne (NK's father) was partners with Shanann's boss...whom Shanann got really close with. Somewhere along the line there was bad blood between Dwayne and the blood because Dwayne found out Shanann was 2nd owner of Dirty South at both locations when Dwayne's entire intention of any involvement of Dirty South was to make sure NK had a safety net for her future. But, instead, it was given to Shanann and somehow Dwayne's cut went to Shanann. Then there was the break in at Shanann's house...after threats and aggressive words were passed back and forth...there isn't any proven evidence Dwayne had anything to do with it...their guess is that he did have involvement.
Fast forward to Shannon and Chris's vacation to San Diego (1 yr before NK started at Anadarko...the day Chris added NK's number to his contact list on his phone). Chris introduced NK to Shanann as his safety advisor (or whatever her title was) the day NK Googled Shanann. I wanna say she lived in Montana at the time (she definitely wasn't living in Colorado yet... again, NK didn't start at Anadarko until 1 year later).
Till this day it is still unknown HOW Chris and NK even knew each other at this point or how they just so happened to run into each other.
It's been said NK envied Shanann because she was living the life NK was supposed to have had if she been 2nd owner of Dirty South. She was GONNA GET REVENGE. This is probably WHY when NK was walking through Shanann's home she got SO FURIOUS and ran out of the house...AND SHE MADE SURE to repeatedly tell the police how EVERYTHING in Chris and Shanann's home was SO expensive....in NK's eyes Shanann robbed NK of the extravagant life she was SUPPOSED to have...and sadly, I guess you can say, NK got her revenge.
Did you guys notice...when they 1st walked into the house, Shanann's purse WAS NOT on the kitchen counter. Nikki A went right to Shanann's office and grabbed her purse and put it on the counter...it almost makes you wonder if she KNEW something was in her purse and took something out...and NK's father was a Mason.
I feel like they should have pulled Nate's tapes further back from just then when Shanann got there at 1:48am...they should have pulled it from like back a few days or when NK admits to being there.
Yeah...to destroy the autopsies, because they KNEW the autopsies didn't match the "confession" ... it doesn't matter if he confessed to killing JFK, if the evidence DOESN'T MATCH (autopsies, etc.) they CANNOT charge him. But THEY got leaked and I think you guys already know and have seen the channel with the reenactment to Chris's 1st confession. It's ALL SHADY...The.cops...the DA...especially slam pig NK.
magiclougie wrote:
The suitcase full of cash that Shanann allegedly used as a down payment for her house in NC comes from chapter 1 of Cindy Watts unpublished book, All My Broken Pieces. Chapters 1-4 were copied and pasted onto Facebook, and leaked on Reddit.
The following is an excerpt from chapter 1 about the "suitcase" (Jamie Watts is under the alias “Sarah”).
Also, we are a family that believes in hard work and trying to do the best you can, and when we met her she was driving a Cadillac Escalade from the company she said she worked for, Dirty South, and then there was her house.Now a lot of money and big houses don’t mean anything to me personally, I don’t want to live anywhere but in our little 1100 square foot house until the day I die, but I know those things are important to a lot of people and that’s fine.Hard work, whether it's for your own personal satisfaction as well as putting a roof over your head, no matter how small or large seems to me to make people feel good about themselves, and the roof Shan’ann had put over her head with her hard work was a big one.In fact, it looked like a mansion. It was as Sarah commented to me, the biggest and grandest house she’d ever seen, then or now.It had three formal living rooms for heavens sakes and each one of them, well every room had the most beautiful furniture I’d ever seen in all of them, it sat right beside a lake and there was a boathouse too. For the people who lived in that subdivision I’m guessing that a boat wasn’t out of the question.Her bedroom was massive and beautiful, she had these little clocks and things she said she’d ordered from Switzerland.It was perfect, like a castle, and she said she had bought and paid for it from her job at Dirty South by the age of twenty-five.She told me, in fact, that when she had approached the builders and told them what she wanted they didn’t take her a bit seriously until she opened up a suitcase she had brought and pulled out twenty thousand dollars in cash. You had to be impressed with that no matter what.I saw years later that her brother Frankie said that she was always a hard worker and was making half a million a year, and to maintain that house I think you would have to be pulling that in.Like I said she was also driving a company car from Dirty South, though she had told Sarah that she was either taking a break from there or had quit, Sarah isn’t positive which, and that she was working as a nanny at the time instead. She also mentioned that she had worked at GAP previously so I don’t have any idea how she was managing it all.She didn’t come from any more wealth than Chris had, just nice ordinary people, and if she had won the lottery which I could have believed she didn’t mention it, and she would have.
As far as the medical facility, I think that was a Rehab Facility — and I think her mom worked there. There is mention that NK was treated for drugs and that is where she met Trent Bolte, Amanda McMahan, and Damien. Initially, it seemed as if Law Enforcement disregarded Trent but lately they have shown a renewed interest in Trent and Damian. Damian is in the oil and gas industry, was in the same Rehab and he’s a body builder. I know of nothing connecting Trent and Damian to the murders but a lot of folks wondered why LE is showing a renewed interest in Damian. Damian asked his Atty. And his attorney advised against talking to police. So, personally, I don’t see the Damian connection as far as the murders.
I saw a video last night that said that Tammi and the other two investigators did, indeed, go to Dodge Prison in WI to see if Chris would give them info on NK’s possible involvement. Initially, they didn’t disclose that they were specifically looking into NK. However, when her cell phone records were obtained, the pings, the texts with different people, it was clear that NK lied from the beginning to the FBI, CBI and Weld County Police.
When you look at how much time Chris spent at Cervi 319, his cell phone info shows he spent a large amount of time on the phone. Folks are saying there is no way he had the time to do all he said he did in that short amount of time. Some believe that NK set him up to get caught, especially after NA ruined her plans. She got out of Dodge, so to speak, and covered her own butt with one lie after another.
Personally, I would love to know what Chris said when he found out she threw him under the bus. He was shocked!!!! I think NK was after the money. I also saw where NK first saw ShanAnn at a Children’s Hospital Fair in July 2017, which proves she became aware of ShanAnn before she even started working at Anadarko.
There’s no doubt that NK was insanely jealous of ShanAnn and her hatred of ShanAnn was out of proportion to what would be expected of a girl she didn’t know. There was even talk that NK was hired to kill ShanAnn but there’s only speculation about who would have hated her enough to have her killed.
There has been talk of a NC connection but I haven’t seen the evidence. I think she and her former boss at Dirty South left on good terms although there had been rumors that the business was laundering money which would have brought her into proximity with dangerous people.
I am not saying that the above is true but it’s a compilation of information obtained by a group of very intelligent folks, from diverse backgrounds. And they have been researching the minutia of this case since it happened.
There is one group on You Tube who clearly state that their group is for those who believe that NK was more than a witness. Those girls are sharp! There are a lot of good ones but I have been on their site for quite a while.
Again, I am just sharing some of the things I have learned and cannot state whether or not the research is completely factual.
One last thing: these young ladies have read from Discovery and have found many discrepancies and they have found that evidence seems to have been removed. Good luck—this is addictive. We all fell in love with ShanAnn, Bella, Cece, Niko, and the Rzucecks, friends and Dieter Rzuceck, who is now being loved and cared for by Frankie Ruzeck. You might be interested in Dr. Phil’s podcast—he actually gave his opinion.
absnsbajkal replied:
The facility was a rehab and they also paid for the cabin NK and a few of her friends stayed in when they went on a trip for her birthday a week or so after she and Chris allegedly first started dating. NK is quite close with the couple (or ex couple) that run it. It’s rumoured that she has been in rehab a number of times herself, but I don’t think there’s any evidence to back this up.
There’s also a weird connection between Trent Bolte, his ex fiancé, NK and the rehab too. Iirc, Trent stayed at the same rehab for a while. It’s been a couple years since I looked at the Trent/NK connection though so I could be wrong. I’m fairly certain there is a link there though. NK’s friend Danielle (who she spent the day with Sat 11th Aug 2018) was also FB friends with Trent and they regularly interacted on their pages. I also think that Trent lived only a couple of miles away from NK at some point too. I wanna say in Wyoming, but again I’m not 100%.
debinambiocry replied:
calling a medical place/facility shortly before the murders
A rehab center paid her birthday cabin and then she called them before he left for NC.
Commercial_Finger_44 replied:
Personally, I believe Damian, Trente, and Jim are involved in human sex trafficking and NK and CW are not only in the trafficking but the murders as well. That's why CW was quick to plead guilty and NK went to police off record before making her statements. There are some very subtle clues in the discovery files that led me to investigate a little more. There were some questions that were asked in interviews that seemed like odd questions for them to ask...like they were pulled out of left field. With this theory in mind I went back and watched the TB interview and started reading transcripts of NK's police interviews. Honestly, it was hard to get my jaw off the floor. Kody's interview in the discovery files had "sex trafficking" highlighted. In Sandy's interview she recalled a time that CW was questioning a rash on Cece's privates and he put in the camera like all right up in her area... to the point where Sandy was very angry and upset about it and questioned why he would do that right at the time it happened. Trente has a history of being trafficked. NK refers to her personal cell phone as her "work" cell phone...when we know that Anadarko has also provided her with a work phone just like they did CW, but it was never taken in as evidence. I'm just beginning to take my trip down this rabbit hole. But its my theory as to why NK hasn't been prosecuted for her involvement yet.
Bette's Bush wrote:
It's a good ole boys club, a satanic club. Most likely everybody in positions of power, government and corporate, are in this club. You get the good jobs because you're part of the club. You're promised one of the coveted jobs if you become part of the club. The underlings turn a blind eye to corruption because they're afraid to go against the club and don't want to lose their cushy jobs and pensions. John Ramsey is part of this club. Chris Watts thought he was going to become a member, and maybe he would have been had the plan not blown up. NK is part of the club through her father, which is why the DA's office protected her, and why everybody else in LE has kept their mouth shuts.
Girlscoutdetective replied:
NK gives off the manipulative faux-supporting, "what you need and are missing" kind of vibes. That isn't a hard show to put on if you are told exactly what someone (CW) is missing and you can play that hand, manipulating his mindset, view and outlook on a marriage, supporting his need to move on with her...
Which begs the question...Did the video CW did on the "relationship" presentation...was that viewable on social media/Facebook/SW's postings prior to being leaked/released for us to view online?? Would NK have been able to view this video herself PRIOR to or DURING the initiation of the affair with CW? IF SO, that would have made him and SW an easy and unwitting target...think about it. That in itself is premeditation on her part, she might just as well have finagled this whole thing, using him as the fall-guy....
IF (we all suspect this to be true) NK looked up SW online/facebook after seeing/meeting her in 2017 she would have seen this video, I am sure that SW would have posted it to document how proud she was of CW's progress, etc., not ever thinking twice about it. Unfortunately, CW wouldn't have known NK looked this up if he didn't think she looked his wife up.... That and everything else on FB/SM is basically ammunition and easy-pickings FROM CW and SW's mouth without anyone ever knowing or being the wiser.... what do you think??!! I am so going to have to look this up.
It could have given NK a reverse manipulation and strategy to get all of this accomplished using his own words/scenarios of workplace affairs against him, prodding and supplying him with exactly the things he would have been looking for and missing in his current "bad" relationship with SW, rendering him unaware of what he needed, thinking it was with her...??? I hope this makes sense.
[deleted] replied:
I’m not sure if the presentation is something NK saw. I do think it was available on YouTube for the public to see. I do think that NK utilized Shannan’s Facebook page to get a read on the relationship and to strategize.
I found it particularly calculating that she discussed wanting to have Chris’ first son when she had to have known that Shannan was pregnant with his first son already. That first wasn’t his to give, nor hers to take. I speculate she brought this up in an effort to get him to reveal the pregnancy because she couldn’t come straight out and admit she’d been trolling Shannan’s Facebook page. That speaks to her manipulative tendencies IMO. To play ignorant while actually knowing the truth.
In the interviews she came off as being shocked that he wasn’t really separating but of course she knew all this because she was googling it. What Shannan was posting was directly at odds with what CW would have been telling her. There were photos of Shannan and Chris is in a loving embrace at the convention in San Diego in June. In June Shannan also posted that “Chris was the best dad these girls could ever ask for.”
So either NK would have to believe Shannan was “delusional” or that CW was clearly lying. NK had been in their home, where she says CW made them a meal of carrots and chicken, and surely she would have seen the ultrasound photo on the refrigerator and she would have seen the pregnancy reveal video online too.
I think people would have respected her more if she’d just said that she knew the truth but pursued him anyway, because she liked him so much. That she felt terrible about that. It’s not a crime to like someone who is married, albeit unethical.
She was googling wedding gowns, and “marrying the mistress”, etc. So her whole act that she wasn’t really in “that deep” isn’t really honest. I suspect that perhaps their relationship had been going on longer than she let on, OR she had been interested in him much much longer than she admitted. Purely my speculation.
Dohn Joe wrote on youtube:
It is up to you if you REALLY believe anything Watts said OR Rourke said. Both are liars. In my opinion, Rourke and his team are corrupt maggots. Watts case will have a shocking U-turn. In the last 3 years a long list of evidence admissible in a court of law has surfaced. Whistleblowers from the CBI and Weld County DA office came forward and released documents and recordings never shown to the gullible public. Sadly, the prosecution dismissed (read misinterpreted) the evidence. They wanted a swift conviction of Watts, no questions asked. A trial would had been a nightmare to them. This is why so many people are angry. Watts did more despicable actions than we are not allowed to know. Actions that would had angered everyone so much that a plea deal would not had been possible anymore. So the state covered the evidence to avoid a real trial. Watts couldn't do the murders without a catalyst. Nichol Kessinger. She is the homewrecker. The jealous woman that craved for the happiness of a marriage. The dark mastermind that almost hypnotized Watts with her sex. He was/is a weak man. If somebody will crack Watts, will use the Nichol card. The moment he will snap out of her still existing spell, he will tell everything. He had murderous thoughts for a long time. But they were just thoughts. Then he snapped and the thoughts became deeds. He just needed a trigger. From a dark place or from a dark person. I don't have proof NK was present during the murders but she was AROUND. To see the proof that Watts killed for her. I think Watts showed her the 3 dead bodies on his way to Cervi 319. NK became the snitch about Chris the moment she saw the Police came too soon at his house. She realized that their plan to cover the tracks of the murders will fail for lack of time. Everything that she had done from that day on was to save her skin as an accomplice to a family annihilation. Watts is a moron without experience of life. The omega dog. He got the balls to murder only because NK pushed him, pressured him, gave him ultimatums. I did my own investigation and gathered facts for the last 6 months or so with help from other people equally interested to bring justice for the victims and to put into jail all conspirators. I have forensic tools and skills to restore and enhance audio and video footage (Nate's CCTV video), I have software to analyze the logs of the phones and home router. I have built a comprehensive timeline of the murders, hour by hour, minute by minute, second by second. I am in the process of finalizing a folder with scientific evidence I found so far. I added proof of mistakes found in the discovery document issued by the CBI. I could do more if the CBI will send me the rest of their data. I will submit the folder to the FBI and the USA Supreme Court. e knew that if he goes to trial, many details about him, Shanann, the girls, his parents, her parents, Nichol Kessinger & Co will surface to the light. So for now he is silent.
I noticed something that Chris Watts says during his final interview with the agents that lends even more evidence that he is a complete narcissist.
ReplyDeletesubmitted by RachelDesha
At 1:15:00 - 1:15:20 of part one of the prison interview, Chris Watts states that all he wanted in life was to be a dad and to have his children love him.
I am not a parent, but I’d imagine that most people who want a family, want to have children to love and to provide for them a good and safe quality life.
The fact that CW made having a family all about himself is very telling to me about how he views the world and how he wants the world to view him in return. That ultimately, it’s all about him.
Just wanted to share and thought maybe others noticed this as well.
Fast forward to 1:15:00 - 1:15:20 of this video:
https://youtu.be/duu2NePfEo0
[–]tew2109
I think it depends on how they get their narcissistic supply. In CW's case, he was obsessed with being seen as a "good guy", and that led him to put on a pretty decent act for years with Shanann and the girls so everyone could admire him for being such a dedicated family man.
Alas, when he found someone who gave him better supply in NK, Shanann and the girls became a liability he needed to remove, and he needed to do it in such a way that he could still be seen as a good guy victim.
CW is a coward; he could not handle a trial where the world would be watching, and jurors would see displays of photographs of what he did to his family and look at him in disgust. He does not seem to get what he needs from attention alone; he gets it from being praised and adored.
I am vaguely surprised he answered Cadle at all in the way that he did because the details he gave were utterly chilling and made him appear to be more of a sociopath, but he's now gone down the "I have been saved" route and perhaps he thought it would be more impressive if he gave more details about the bad things he'd done. It wouldn't be the first time he made a short-sighted decision that he thought would get him what he needed but instead made it clear he is a monster.
[–]IrisMoroc
DeleteHe can still feel lust and excitement, along with a whole range of emotions. It's empathy for others that he critically lacks. So there's excitements in the first few years of a relationship, but that quickly wears off. Without the ability to hold serious bonds he grew bored and found NK. Of course, it's completely obvious he'd get bored of NK in a few years and would then start cheating again but whatever.
[–]cedarapple
A narcissist would not be able to face the shame of a trial and seeing the evidence of what he did. In the Wisconsin interview he even mentioned that he didn't want people in court (including friends, coworkers, the families and NK) seeing pictures of the recovery from the tanks or the autopsies. Shame is the deepest and worst emotion that a narcissist like CW can feel, which was how Coder was able to play him by constantly telling him "you're a good man, Chris", when in reality he must have thought CW was a piece of sh
[–]SleepingSeas
I don't know because I don't think anybody actually knows who the real CW is. He can't be honest, always lies and is in denial. That means it's difficult to see who he really is.
He was described as a quiet guy who was happy to help out, devoted family man, hard worker, reliable, socially awkward, happy to follow orders. People said they rarely heard CW say anything.
CW's mother is a narcissist. She won't shut up or accept what happened. CW won't say anything or admit what happened. There's a difference.
CW changed leading up to the murders. Something switched in him. Was that homicidal tendency already there waiting to come out? Or was it resentment over his domineering mother and then a somewhat demanding wife in Shanann?
I'd lean towards a kind of split personality for CW, rather than a narcissist. He did what he was told, never complained, smiled, just did it. All that takes its toll, and you repress feelings. You put on a facade, and after a while it splits. That resentment builds and builds until it comes out.
TLDR: CW has behavioural traits that could be interpreted as narcissistic, and maybe he repressed them. However, I don't see him fitting a textbook example of a narcissist. You may well be right.
superminkie wrote on reddit:
ReplyDeleteI believe that the plan was to create an explosion and it had been premeditated by multiple people for a long time. Anadarko had 2 explosions in Spring 2017 causing three fatalities including a battery explosion that killed its employee. In one explosion, they settled the wrongful death claim for the spouse at $70 million. The stocks tanked and they were charged hefty fines for safety violations causing loads of disgruntled employees.
I believe that the leak and meeting about the leak was manufactured for CW to be at cervi-319 alone Monday morning. NK is the safety operator who monitors the sensors of the leak. Troy McCoy had a meeting with CW on a "day off" Friday afternoon at a shopping mall parking lot to look at a firestick CW bought from Amazon (tell me this is ridiculous ... they could have done this at work on Monday).
During that meeting, coincidentally, Troy's roomate and co-worker, Kody the other operator calls Troy on speaker to tell about the leak that is not serious enough to repair right away so CW can do it alone Monday morning.
CW has a pretty high IQ and why else would he take the bodies to his work place unless he planned to blow it up, have an accidental death, ride off into the sunset with NK with a $100 million (few millions to give off to accomplices). Ronnie knew there were other people in the house because he asked CW during the confession to his dad something along the line "Is that when they left" or something like that.
I believe SW was sedated and taken out the basement where CW said in the porch sermon has no cameras or alerts and there are tire tracks. I think she was put in the trunk of the red car hence her buried position. There's no indication of him loading a body of a pregnant woman in Nate's CCTV and he knows what can be seen in Nate's CCTV since he went to check it a couple of weeks before. We also see 2 different cars headlights that morning besides CW that is not Betty's car.
I think she was killed at the site and the shallow grave was because they were going to finish with the explosion later but the plan went array because NA brought LE to the house.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Chriswatts/comments/j2ta13/the_nichol_kessinger_mystery/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
superminkie wrote on reddit:
ReplyDeleteHere's my take a lawyer for 16 years and former DA.
Scenario 1:
CW took the body to his place of work where there's likely a fabricated oil leak and the firestick meeting on a day off at a shopping mall parking garage with Troy McCoy and with NK monitoring the sensor and Troy's roommate Kodi calling him on speaker about the leak that is not serious enough to be fixed on Monday show that it was planned for the bodies to be taken to Cervi-319.
Anadarko has had two explosions in 2017, including battery explosion that killed workers. One explosion lead to a wrongful death settlement to the spouse at $70 million, causing stocks to tank and massive fines for safety violations.
Anadarko was still in breach of safety even with NK coming in, particularly Cervi-319 with no CCTV, etc.
I believe there were more people involved and there was a plan to orchestrate an accidental death (hence no chargeable crime) and the oil leak was a predication for an accidental explosion causing the death of the family for sums of over $100 million.
That's why the shallow grave. That explains Troy and Kodi's lies to LE and statements not matching discovery data, and various other metadata about NK (wifi, vivint, phone ping).
Even Troy and Chris used to exchange texts about explosions.
NA showing up with LE aborted the plan.
Scenario 2:
Chris doesn't talk to LE, lawyers up. DA has a very hard case to prove.
The investigators botched the investigation, no forensics, DNA, finger prints or direct evidence linking Chris to the murder. There's only circumstantial evidence and plenty to raise reasonable doubt that somebody else did it. There are unidentified fingerprints and DNA on the rake, garbage bag, and gloves.
Chris' defense expert from Holland, who specializes on touch DNA, requested officers to get DNA swaps from the girls' neck since crude oil still preserve DNA and they claim it's exculpatory evidence but they were denied this. This is a huge violation of due process to withhold exculpatory evidence.
The DA knew full well that they had a weak case and that's why they pressed hard for a plea deal. There's no evidence as to the crime scene or time of death. CW could easily argue that he was framed because who would be dumb enough to take the bodies to the work place to be discovered.
The evidence is circumstantial only but if he denies everything like Scott Peterson did and claims that they only zeroed in on him and neglected other suspects such as the burglars that led to the neighbor watch and how the media convicted him before the trial, etc. There's plenty of ways for a not guilty verdict.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Chriswatts/comments/kbv513/could_he_have_got_off/gfy2urg/?context=3
SUNDAY 08/12/2018
DeleteWATTS 1706 hours I have whip checks for the Cervi 6-29. I’m gonna go straight out there
from my house in the morning. I will look at that 3-19 as well and run the 11-29 if you want.
ROBERTS 1720 hours I was going to head out there first thing tomorrow to check out the 3-19.
Did Troy talk to you about what I had found out there Friday afternoon?
WATTS 1722 hours Yup I was standing right next to him lol
WATTS 1722 hours I was giving him a fire stick to look at
WATTS 1723 hours I can go out there though. No sense in both of us going out there lol
ROBERTS 1809 hours Alright sounds good man, I appreciate it. I think I still have a couple
Konys left out there. I can let you know in the morning. And let me know if you find anything at the 3-19. If not we may pressure test that BP line and see if it’s leaking underground.
WATTS 1812 hours Copy that.
MONDAY 08/13/2018
WATTS 0631 hours Where you at?
ROBERTS 0632 hours Just got fuel in kersey
WATTS 0633 hours Ok I’m in Cervi
WATTS 0633 hours Where you going first?
ROBERTS 0633 hours Dpc state
WATTS 0634 hours thumbs up emoji
ROBERTS 0635 hours I need to call Chad and see if plans on still stroking the 10-29 out there
to see if it’ll pump up
ROBERTS 0635 hours If so I’ll have to meet him or he will have to get the cannon plugs from
tony k
WATTS 0635 hours Ok let me know before I leave here
ROBERTS 0638 hours I think he might be heading out there today. Phone was breaking up
pretty bad.
ROBERTS 0659 hours I guess I’m headed out that way to start up the 10-29 and chad will be
meeting me our there.
ROBERTS 0659 hours Out
WATTS 0710 hours Ok copy
ROBERTS 0741 hours I’m here at the 10-29 now. You mind coming out here? Just incase
something gets sideways
WATTS 0743 hours Yea I’m at 3-19. One sec
ROBERTS 0743 hours 10-4. How’s it look?
WATTS 0745 hours Fresh lol
ROBERTS 0751 hours Is it a lot?
WATTS 0753 hours photo of pipes into the ground with apparent leak
ROBERTS 0755 hours Want me to bring some gator? We can try and pressure test the line too
if you want
WATTS 0800 hours I got it handled. Thanks though.
ROBERTS 0800 hours 10-4
D0622018CR002003 DISCOVERY PAGE 443
COLORADO BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION 2018-273/1
Agent STACY GALBRAITH 17 August 2018 Page 3
Additional from ROBERTS:
· ROBERTS did not know that Cervi 6-29 needed whip checks.
· ROBERTS provided that no one really likes going out there to Cervi as it is so far. If WATTS would not have gone to Cervi Monday morning, he would have gone to the office. ROBERTS did not know the last time WATTS may have been out to Cervi Ranch.
superminkie wrote on reddit:
ReplyDeleteNK's involvement:
Here are the facts from discovery and then my take as a lawyer who formerly worked at the DA. CW is where he should be but I believe there may be at least 2 other people involved and the police did a terrible job at investigating this case. Once CW "confessed", falsely, the clock stopped and LE stopped investigating. Actually, no investigation was ever done, no finger prints, DNA, forensics, the crime scene was contaminated, the crime scene was released, the dogs proved nobody died at the house. The house sale certificate also confirmed nobody died at the house.
Here are some facts and circumstancial evidence:
It's in the discovery file. NK had deleted google searches but some were recoverable and included google searches for "Chris Watts" since 3 August 2017, much longer before she started working at Anadarko in Spring 2018. Here's the discovery log: https://imgur.com/a/APrObO8 She also searched for Shannan Watts in September 2017 but LE later "alleged" that was a typo (yeah right). There were also searches for SW in Janury 2018. NK lied to LE and knew about CW and SW since before she met CW.
NK is a safety operator for a contracting company owned by her father that had a contract with Anadarko that was due to expire in August 2018, shortly after murder Monday. There had been prior oil explosions and Anadarko was violating various safety guidelines, including at Cirv-319 which did not even have CCTV cameras.
NK's phone ping at 6:16 am when she calls “Leave Him Alone” Jim for 1 minute in Frederick and other clues lead to a possibility that NK was in the house the night of the murder. NK normally calls CW in the morning except that day.There's a lady who did the analysis of NK and CW's 111-minute phone log and suggests that NK was in CW's house basement that night, based on their phone disconnecting - reconnecting to wifi at the same time.
Before NK left her place, CW sent her photos of the temperature of the fridge, code for "the chlorophone is ready" - it has to be refrigerated at a very specific low temperature. That photo is in the discovery file but the actual temperature is covered but the residue powder is found in the toilet which LE comments on but never tested. If you add the phone metadata that with the pony tail lady caught in the CCTV at 5 am-ish and other vivint records, NK was likely in the house when SW got home.
The theory as to why NK's phone pinged at Fredericks is that they forgot the burner phone in the basement - the one LE saw in the body cam and thought was CW's second work phone. This is why NK had to use her phone to call Leave Him Alone - may be that they're on the way or status or about the plan?
After CW leaves cirv, NK asked him for Metallica Battery lyrics (https://genius.com/Metallica-battery-lyrics). Hint hint. Then, NK went back to clean up the mess because according to vivint, somebody was in the house when NA showed up. This is why CW had to stall Atkinson whom nobody expected to show up. While Atkinson drove to the hospital (CW knew Atkinson left because he can see from vivint cam to his phone), NK left through the basement window - vivint alarm alerted there around noon-ish (CW got home I think 2:12 pm).
Betty talked about seeing a smaller grey truck, which was also included in the Netflix documentary. NK drives a smaller grey truck possibly parked in front of CW's house. We don't know who's the person driving the red car in the CCTV. That red car left in synchronization with CW’s car caught in Nate’s CCTV. Is it leave me alone Jim that NK called at 6:16 am?
CONTINUED BELOW...
Case theory:
DeleteNK works for her dad's company that was contracted by Anadarko Petroleum to do safety checks after previous oil explosions and safety code violations. NK's dad's contract was expiring within murder month right before the big merger.
NK targeted CW from the beginning, perhaps she targeted others but CW was easily manipulated (the theory that he's manipulative, I don't fully buy that. he's one who is controlled by women and is quite beta and can’t come up with elaborate plans on his own).
It is not a coincidence that the "leak" happened on Friday and all of this was premeditated.
NK, CW, Jim all work in the same industry. Cirv-319 was not in compliant, it didn't even have CCTV cameras.
The plan was to have an oil explosion and make the murder look like an accident and walk away with millions in insurance/damages happily together.
They would have driven SW's SUV there to make it seem like SW went to look for CW and the tank exploded, killing the family (may be/may be not the children).
CW has a pretty high IQ, he's not that stupid to have a plan to just dump the body out there to be easily discovered and NK is much more ambitious than that if she was googling wedding dresses. There was a "get away with murder" plan that would have worked out perfect except ... for timing.
The plan failed because SW's flight was delayed by 3 hours, SW changed her iPhone passcode so CW/alleged accomplices couldn't log in and tell the Thrive gang that she's home safe/respond to Atkinson on Monday, then Atkinson showed up with LE.
CW couldn't have committed all the crimes alone at Cirv-319, between killing, digging a grave, disposing all the body, not to mention he was on the computer most of the time if he did not have help. It just does not make sense given the limited time he had before his co-worker was going to show up at the site.
During the first confession, CW never pointed his finger at SW for killing the babies. He simply said to his dad “I don’t want to protect HER anymore” "she wasn't supposed to be there" after talking about the affair and said “I didn’t kill the babies” and was sobbing. He could have very well been talking about NK. There's no reason to be protecting the deceased, the more probable inference was that he didn't want to protect NK.
It’s CW father who pointed fingers at SW and the investigators and then CW, after hours of interrogation, went along with the story, which was a false confession, because the story fed was that SW killed the babies in the house but we know they were still alive then.
CW took the fall and didn't want a trial to protect "others" but notice in his first confession, he didn't even know how the girls died, his confession didn't even match the autopsy.
CONTINUED BELOW...
NK's dad is connected to the DA and LE. Why else was he allowed in the interview and was so audacious? The defense crime scene experts were already at CW house, finger dusting after CW confessed.
DeleteThese crime scene experts hired by defense team have worked on high profile cases like Amanda Knox, Ramsay, etc. This team knows how to manipulate DNA and testify on touch DNA like in the Ramsay and Knox case.
Who had the cash to hire them if not NK and daddy? Allegedly. There's the video of LE going in and then crims scene defense told them DA already released the scene, so LE had to leave! LE was shocked! CW was bankrupt so couldn't have paid for them. NK was untouchable. In any other case, LE would have checked her alibi, when did she "clock in" at Anadarko and interview Leave Jim Alone! We don't even know if NK EVER went to work that day.
Presumably Anadarko is also powerful so pressured DA/PD to wrap up the case with the plea for their mega merger. There was no investigation, the crime scene was RELEASED the day of the confession. No finger prints, no DNA, no forensics. Until today, we don't even know who died where. LE had to go get a second confession after Armchair Detective screamed out that the girl was still alive due to moving shadows in Nate's CCTV..
Don't get me wrong, CW is right where he deserves to be but there may be "others" involved who are roaming around freely. Until they're all in jail, justice is not served.
I have heard from Armchair Detective that somebody at the court house saw NK there. I haven't seen photos of this.
NK's phone record shows that she called the police department for 1 minute on Friday before the murder.
The high profile forensic team, the Dutch guy actually was part of a motion filed around 17 August to take DNA from the girls' neck as well as other parts of the body and part of the motion was that the Dutch guy was a touch DNA expert and that he could extract DNA and it would remain even if the body was covered in crude oil. This was to prove that someone else' DNA would be uncovered to show that CW did not act alone or somebody else killed the girls.
That motion was denied and the evidence was going to be destroyed apparently. I haven't looked at the court document myself but AD read the court file the other day and claimed it's in the court record. Worth checking out.
There's so much circumstantial evidence to corroborate the explosion theory had NA not showed up with LE to wreck the plan.
CONTINUED BELOW...
I would look at the interview of co-worker Troy and Kodi and compare them with the discovery. Troy and Kodi are roomates and they are disgruntled workers of Anadarko who have motive to want to blow up the batteries to get in on millions in settlement.
DeleteThe fire explosion that killed the husband resulted in Anadarko settling with the wife in the sum of $70 million. I don't know how much was the settlement amount for the Mead explosion that killed Anadarko workers. Those two explosions happened in April/May 2017, stocks plumeted.
The atmosphere at work was terrible with many disgruntled worker.
I believe the leak was manufactured and NK was brought in for safety check since Anadarko received hefty fines for safety violations and cervi-319 was a site that was non-compliant. NK was the one monitoring the sensor and would have alerted Kodi. Now Chris and Troy set up a meeting in the parking lot on a Friday day off in the afternoon at a shopping mall car park to show an Amazon firestick he just bought.
Coincidentally, Troy receives a call from Kodi that he puts on speaker about the "leak" at cervi-319 that is not urgent for Chris to volunteer to go directly on Monday to fix it. Sounds fishy?
Well if you dig into their statement and how much they lied when comparing to the discovery, their geotag, etc. There's a likelihood that they were part of the plan and accessory before the act.
The bathroom, I think NK was inside the house cleaning up when NA showed up. Vivint alerted inside at 12.42 pm and it was an "inside" alert of someone going from basement to garage. My hunch is, she quickly flushed the chlorofome and locked the door and did a messy job at cleaning because Chris told her Nicole was coming back with LE or something along that line. She escaped through the basement window with Minnie Mouse. Chris confirmed that basement window does not alert vivint and that's how he sneaks out to go see NK without getting caught by Shannan.
Chris is a pathological liar but there are freudian slips here and there. Just like in the 7 hour interview, at 6h17
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCHVIvXNOck&t=22895s
CONTINUED BELOW...
Chris is asked by Tammy if he's okay with Shannan getting a bad rep and he's dazed and confused and says yes because "I didn't hurt the babies. It doesn't make sense ... Nothing makes sense ... Why she would be there."
DeleteWell, who the hell is she because that's certainly not Shannan!
Apparently, there's also a part when Ronnie said to Chris about after the murder "Did they leave", but I haven't gone back to catch that yet.
I am certain that he did not act alone. From everything we know of CW, he's not a master manipulator, he's a beta man, a follower, a people pleaser. He's too weak to do this all by himself unless there are other people there. Not to mention he didn't have enough time at Cervi to do everything in less than an hour while being on the computer, on the phone, digging grave, putting girls in the battery and, since none of them died at the house and were just sedated, that would have meant killing them there too.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Chriswatts/comments/j2ta13/the_nichol_kessinger_mystery/gc2icdz/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
CelticThyme wrote on reddit:
ReplyDeleteExcellent summary Superminkie! There was so much lying and deception coming from Chris Watts and NK going on, even before the murders, if you look back in the discovery.
The only thing I'd disagree with is that she DID HAVE A MOTIVE: she wanted them all gone.
She was a self involved, manipulative , entitled, calculating snake.
She had been stalking him and his family for some time.
I recently listened again to the interviews by the detective. Her overwhelming theme throughout reverted back to her, and what she and Chris were "trying to do" because he, of course, was going to leave his wife, family, home and ride off into the sunset with her.
She just assumed she had a right to CW, a right to destroy that family for her own selfish ends.
And she was all about making that happen.
I think the camping trip and "dinner" on August 12th were strategy, planning and discussion sessions about how and what they were going to do.
I do not think Chris could have done this on his own. There was too much to do between when Shanann got home at 0200and 0530 when he (they) left.
Did they pre dig the spot for SW?
I don't think any of them were in his truck.
They were in Jim's truck.
I think NK stayed back and did clean up.
For the weeks of planning that went on here, it is clear they are just idiots. When CW & helpers got rid of his family, who did they think LE go after first?
He's protecting her.
Other comments on reddit:
ReplyDeleteMelora_Rabbit
A factor I hoped the documentary would cover (but it didn't) is the fact NK was a safety coordinator at Anadarko, where CW worked, and they were both aware of issues the company had with fires at their worksites... I think they had a plan to stage Shanann and the girls' deaths at the site as an accident, making CW a merry widow with a big insurance payout, on top, to help with all CWs debt!
HunterS_1981
A financial motive would explain a lot. I did a bit of research into the Firestone house explosion (within minutes of the Watts' house) and there were a ton of other fires and explosions at gas wells all around Frederick. It would be interesting to know exactly what NK's job was in environment health and safety in regards to the gas wells. She mentions she was in charge of some sort of gas monitors.
katie-girl
I have so many questions about NK and she appears so suspicious. But I truly think she’s a woman who fell intensely in love and obsessed with CW and all aspects of his life. She was jealous and demanding and became his ideal soul mate by exploring all his desires and wants that were neglected in his present life with all his responsibilities.
She’d had failed relationships and saw a future with CW - an easy going pleaser.
IMO, NK applied immense pressure and an ultimatum during the Saturday night dinner and the 111-minute phone call. He had to have ended it with SW by Monday on her return. Hence, the phone call to realtor, day care (to save that weeks payment). Proof for NK.
She was a stalker, intensely controlling and manipulative.
IMO, NK's phone pinged in Frederick that morning because she was driving to check out the situation. At some stage CW had said that he feared SW would change the locks and throw out all his belongings on the footpath. Pretty sure she would have! Maybe NK was checking if there was action at the house?
6:16am NK calls Jim and the call pinged off a tower in Frederick. ETA: This was the only morning in their relationship that NK and CW did not have an early morning phone call.
ReplyDelete5:15am-6:45am Neighbor Bette sees the smaller gray truck in front of the Watts house.
12:42pm Vivint inner garage door sensor alerts AFTER NA and son left for Shan’ann’s doctor and BEFORE NA, CW or LE returned.
2:28pm and 2:35pm NK has two back to back phone calls with Robert of OTO from her office.
2:44pm NK texts CW something he replies to with ‘That’s ridiculous! They would freak out!’
3:00pm NK clocks out and goes home to meet Jim at her apt. She did not clock in that day.
8:30pm Jeremy Lindstrom drops in on CW after getting a call from Dave Colon telling him what happened and to go check on CW.
9:30pm-10:30pm Dave Colon visits (Dave and Jeremy’s visits overlap).
9:48pm NK calls CW and the call lasts 50 minutes.
10:00pm Jeremy Lindstrom’s second drop in visit of the night. He returns about a half hour after Dave Colon arrives.
11:09pm NK calls CW and the call lasts 52 minutes.
NK’s first call to CW overlaps with the visits of both Dave Colon and Jeremy Lindstrom.
Just three hours later, at 2:09am of August 14th, another call from NK to CW overlaps with a call CW is on with Officer John Goodman of Frederick PD.
ETA: 12:42pm Vivint inner garage door sensor alerting when no one was known to be there or supposed to be there.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Chriswatts/comments/i8lxw4/two_years_ago_august_13th_2018_the_day_things/
Juanita Richards
ReplyDeleteNK manipulated Watts to the point that he wouldn't even sleep in the same bed with Shannan in NC. NK had told him not to tell her he loved her and then go and lay with another woman. So when he arrived in NC he wouldn't even give Shannan a hug and kiss at the airport, wouldn't sleep with her or make love to her........and let her stay up all night vomiting while he slept alone in the bed. He did what NK told him to do......
Their affair was a lot longer. The Anadarko boss told police he was aware of a 6 month not a 2 months affair. So did his work mates. People at his work noticed things......And NK DID stalk Shannan on FB for a year before the murders. She and Watts had mutual acquaintances in the oil industry, some of whom moved from NK's former work place to Anadarko before NK did herself......and she may have moved to Anadarko because of Watts.
I believe they were seeing each other occasionally, maybe casually before Shannan and the kids went to NC for 6 weeks. Then Watts had plenty of time to spend with NK and their relationship heated up, their bond became much stronger.
And NK had made it clear to Watts she didn't want in kids in their new life together.
She also gave him a deadline and an ultimatum that if he didn't move out immediately on his return from NC that wouldn't see or sleep with him again and that she was going to date other guys.
She forced him into a corner and he was a desperate man...........and she knew that.
I think NK knew early on that Shanann was pregnant, but she couldn't tell CW that she had been stalking them. So, she took the opportunity at their home to PRETEND like she just found out. She possibly used the "new" information to finally bring it out and hash it out. He saw how jealous NK was, which gave him a boost of confidence because now TWO women wanted him.
He knew he had to make a choice, so he chose NK and offed his family. Sicko!
His hands on her neck on their wedding day.
I feel bc he had given her the oxy there's no way he wanted her to go to her Dr's appt on Monday. He would have been busted by her urine tests.
Also there was talk of the gender reveal on Monday & he knew she would post it on FB & he didn't want it public even if NK knew bc he would have possibly felt like it would be rubbing the boy in NK's face.
CONTINUED BELOW...
I think everyone is over analysing chris. He just became a sex addict and nk was his dealer. Thats why she had so much control over him. Especially if she started controlling his supply from 5 6 times a day to 1 or 2 times. Ever see the lengths an addict would go to if supply is controlled. It would drive him insane.
DeleteI've only seen 1 YouTuber dig into that. NK was controlling him with her perversions. That doesn't make him innocent but it does make her complicit in manipulating him, when he was supposedly (according to NK) trying to reconcile with Shannan. What sort of woman says 'work it out with your wife' while sending him nudes so explicit they had to be heavily pixelated for public viewing?
Cadle is implying, and it's pretty obvious anyway, that Watts was lulling Shannan into a false sense of security in the final few days while he planned the murders. He didn't want Shannan to just give up and cut and run if he behaved too badly, like the rotten shit he is. He needed to keep her where he could control her.
It’s extremely clear to me that the whole, “I wanna have firsts with you” thing was a manipulation tactic.. why else would he begin to think of having to get rid of them??
She’s was a mental case.it was her way of introducing the idea like, hey let’s get rid of your family, the we can have our firsts.
I think he was trying to get her to overdose, especially while they were around family, so that he would have witnesses that he was "innocent" and he would get life insurance money and all would be taken care of. Just my opinion.
Two years ago today: Friday, August 10th, 2018 - a factual list, no theories included
ReplyDeleteNA picks Shan’ann up for the airport around 5am for a Thrive conference in Phoenix
By WaimeaBay
CW has taken the day off work, supposedly to drive her to airport
Danielle Haydal arrives in town to spend the weekend with NK. Did she fly in?
NK calls and speaks to her friend Robert of OTO
Oil Leak is discovered by Kodi Roberts around around 3pm who immediately calls Troy to report leak
Troy tells Kodi it can wait until Monday and to have a nice weekend
CW, serendipitously is standing right there showing Troy a firestick he wanted him to take a look at when the call from Kodi comes in on Troy’s truck speakerphone and offers to take care of it for Kodi on Monday.
It was of this meeting that Troy says in his interview that CW was parked next to an Orange Mustang 5.0 of which he claims “looked like one of the ladies from......well, it looked like one I used to have”
NK and Danielle have an evening out that ends with cocktails and taking an Uber home.
16 Comments
hi_cissp
This is a good post. Please make a factual list for each day up until August 15.
WaimeaBay
Thank you. Sure. I might do that when there’s more than a couple items of note. I know Monday is a busy day of phone calls between Robert of OTO and NK as well as Jim and CW with NK.
Bettyourlife
Who's Robert? And by OTO do you mean Ordo Templi Orientis?
WaimeaBay
Yes, Robert was her good friend, and IMO, her spiritual mentor or counselor. And yes, Ordo Templi Orientis. They spoke on key days leading up to and just after the murders. Most notably, two back to back phone calls between NK and Robert on Monday the 13th of August made from her office at work where immediately afterward, she texts CW some nonsense about cereal to make herself look ‘unaware’ of what was happening with CW’s missing family. IMO, in the phone calls with Robert one of the things he may have said to her (my theory) were words to the effect of ‘Make yourself look innocent’. Right after this, she sent CW that text (supposedly) about Lucky Charms cereal. She then left her office and went to meet JG at her apartment.
Superb-Neat
WOW!!!! I watch many different forums but this post is HUGE!! Thank you, WaimeBay!
I missed “Robert” and “Ordo Templi Orientis”. Thanks for all your info!!!
fiddlesticks_409
Waimea, would you please elaborate on the Mustang/Troy's interview bullet point? (2nd to last)
WaimeaBay
Of course. There’s a long convo between Redd and myself on the evidence list post published around March of this year on WattsCaseEvidence sub.
I will be happy to cut to the chase and bullet point it for you but can’t do that til later today. I know the info, but will get you specifics.
fiddlesticks_409
I'll go read it now, thanks! 🤓
WaimeaBay
There’s a video by Zav Girl and you can also hear it in his interview!
I suspect/wonder if the orange 5.0 mustang might have been Danielle Haydal who Troy might possibly have known through the oil industry. Unmasked said th
https://www.reddit.com/r/Chriswatts/comments/i76spq/two_years_ago_today_friday_august_10th_2018_a/
Ordo Templi Orientis
DeleteWhy I left the OTO
By Psyche
18 June 2014
Paganism, Satanism, chaos magick, ceremonial magick, various forms of divination, and so on. I underwent the Abramelin ritual and was underwhelmed by the results. I felt I’d gotten as far as I could on my own, and I wanted to meet with people who were dealing with the same challenges I was. People I could talk to face-to-face, and share coffee with. I wanted to really feel like part of a community — an offline community. Much as I loved the online communities I’d found (the zee-list, chaoskaos, alt.magick.*, Irreality, etc.), I need to find people I could see. People I could learn from.
Whatever else I think of Aleister Crowley, I believe he was an exceptional magician, and many of his books remain the best ever written on practical magick. The Ordo Templi Orientis, the order he entrusted his legacy to, seemed a likely choice. I got in contact with my local lodge, and, after some months, finally met with representatives from that lodge at a pub. They seemed like good folk, and, after a few more months, I was in.1
I attended lectures on tarot,2 kabbalah, the so-called Western Esoteric Tradition, and Thelemic theory. The instructors were knowledgeable, funny and kind. Great people, really. I was happy to pay dues, and glad to feel like I was joining a community of people with similar, if not perfectly aligned, interests.
Months later I underwent my Minerval initiation. I diligently avoided reading up on it prior to, and the experience was appropriately spooky. We had a feast, some wine, and a chat about the wonderful things in store for the new initiates.
Our classes became more focused on Thelemic magical theory as the OTO sees it. The Gnostic Mass was presented as the OTO’s central rite — understand its symbolism was key to unlocking the secrets of magick itself. And this is where I began to run into problems.
Ok, I know Crowley often went on misogynist rants, and was unapologetically sexist, but we’re in the 21st century now — long out of the backward Edwardian ideals that informed these perspectives, surely? Well, maybe not, it turns out. Ok, so the OTO hasn’t inducted a new female saint in a while. And sure, most of the literature remains written by men. But there’s been some progression. At least female initiates are no longer called “Man and Brother,” right?
CONTINUED BELOW...
It’s no secret4 that in the Gnostic Mass, this central rite, involves a (fully dressed) priest, a (usually naked) woman on the altar, a simulation of hetero sex initiated by the priest, and a simulation of fellatio performed by the priestess. There’s a lot more involved — more people, more symbolism, magick words, all that great stuff — but these two roles are fixed. A woman may never serve as the priest, and a man may never lay upon the altar. When I asked about that, the instructor burst out laughing, “What, with some dude’s dong on the altar?” He was amused and horrified in equal parts.
DeleteI should stress that I don’t hold this lodge at fault, nor, necessarily, its members. They’re passing along the tradition as it’s given to them. Ok, they weren’t challenging it — true — but they didn’t invent it. They made it clear that any deviations in the performance of the Gnostic Mass meant it was no longer an OTO rite. This was it. I could learn to accept it, or leave.
Over the next few months, further explorations of these mysteries revealed equally rigid views on the (few) roles permitted to women, and they were almost always passive. If you didn’t identify as a Scarlet Woman, a Whore of Babalon, there wasn’t much room for you in the temple. I found this incredibly frustrating. It made no sense biologically, and even less sense magically. Questions about gender fluidity, intersex, trans* and other non-cis-, non-binary, non-hetero identified people were met with incomprehension. Try as I might, I couldn’t reconcile the official OTO stance on gender essentialism and the restrictive boundaries it policed with reality. So, I left.
I sent a formal email outlining why I felt the OTO wasn’t the right place for me, which wasn’t met with a response. About a year later I received a letter from HQ welcoming me as a Minerval, which I disregarded.
I guess I shouldn’t haven been surprised. Crowley repeatedly describes Thelema as a solar-phallic cult, and The Book of the Law doesn’t have much going on for its goddess — the primary figures are all designated as male, but, still, I expected more. I had hoped with the progress that’s been made over the past 40 years with LGBTQ* rights that there’d be some reflection of that in the order. With the progress feminism has made, and still struggles with, I though there’d be more consideration for diversity. I expected the religion (or philosophy or whatever you want to call it) would have evolved over the past hundred years. But it hasn’t. Magick might be about change, but Thelema’s imagery and understanding of its central mysteries remain in stasis.
That was four years ago. From what I can see, nothing has changed. The OTO remains uncompromising on the roles permitted to women, and all but silent on other (non-dude) designations.
https://www.spiralnature.com/magick/left-ordo-templi-orientis/
WaimaeBay:
DeleteI suspect/wonder if the orange 5.0 mustang might have been Danielle Haydal who Troy might possibly have known through the oil industry. Unmasked said that community is very small in some of the smaller towns of Northern Colorado, Wyoming. Just a thought.🤓
ETA: Also on this day, Friday August 10th there were strangely NO PHONE CALLS AT ALL between NK and CW or NK and JG. Midnight Mysteriologist asks is it because they were together? I think so.
ETA 2#: Info about NK and Danielle having cocktails and Uber ride home from Unmasked.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Chriswatts/comments/i76spq/two_years_ago_today_friday_august_10th_2018_a/
WaimeaBay
ReplyDeleteYes, Jimeva and Plunder both have some fantastic content. Unmasked (formerly TCIC) is fabulous as well, also in my top picks for the Watts case are a couple ‘somewhat newish’ channels that fly under the radar but are truly spectacular, hidden gems, Midnight Mysteriologist and another called UnJustified, who has recently put up a couple videos on the NK/occult piece of the puzzle and handled that aspect of the case comprehensively as well as bringing out new revelations on NK’s mindset and beliefs, which are jarring and chilling. Beliefs such as planet before people, better to let a child starve than to feed them and add to the ‘people as pollution’ problem. NK (allegedly) subscribes to deeply anti human leanings that haven’t been addressed as deeply, in more detail and in such a way that fits perfectly with previously known information from Discovery before this creator. They go to motive and show that the life of humans, especially the life of children, are not something of value.
Superb-Neat
WOW, I will go there for sure. I have heard of them but I need to really go back and check them out. Heard an interesting tidbit re: “the toilet”. Chris is dropping hints; in a letter, he kept bringing up the toilet. He writes WAY too much about the toilet in his cell. Since the locked bathroom/hidden key/no water in the girls’ toilet has come up frequently, the question was asked why would CW keep talking about his cell toilet??? He asked Tammy and Coder about the pipes and the toilet at the house.
Talked about a leak that ran almost to his his bunk, said the seat sweats in the summer, the seat is cold in the winter, and commented that with the food they serve, he spends way too much time there.
He hears what we people talk about on social media. I think he now has internet, part time. There were just so many details about the toilet. There was a quote mentioned and someone googled the quote as it didn’t sound like something CW would come up with. The person googled it and there was a pix of Mother Earth. So, he apparently was referring back to NK.
WaimeaBay
Dieter was locked down in the basement. CW opens the door and walks down to get him on the police body cam.
WaimeaBay
I think we did. Because It was crucial to know (1) what she had deleted so LE could determine why she wanted to hide it. It was obviously somehow connected to the murders and (2) Because the porn searches could contain Important keys to the murders as well as insight into those involved, and possibly their motives, which I believe they did.
I believe the porn searches potentially support (along with DIscovery) -theory now- a very important aspect aspect of not only the murders, but the mindset behind the murders as well as the motive itself, that aspect being that NK was a follower of Gaia (Robert, OTO, an advisor).
Gaia is an alternative religion that teaches the only legitimate law is one’s own will above all else. This description was taken from Stellaaah.
The porn searches were specific sex acts that were practiced by followers of Gaia as an amulet of sorts in their rituals.
I’m not saying anyone that indulges likewise is Gaia by way of their preferences. Everyone should do whatever they and their partner want to and agree upon. I’m saying, in this case, this, along with many other factors support NK being a devoted follower of Gaia.
CONTINUED BELOW...
WaimeaBay
DeleteIt’s my opinion that NK was in the house when SW arrived home. She was in the house from about 11:25pm Sunday night to around 12:40pm the following day.
CW procured the firestick on his own and asked Troy McCoy to take a look at it. Coincidentally, the same day the oil leak was discovered using the sensors that were overseen, managed and monitored by NK.
She had to mention it in the interview. LE had already seen her texts telling CW to prove he’d been there and CW’s texts response with pics of the leak.
WaimeaBay
CW, NK, JG - main players and core team
Robert - An advisor in some capacity
Trent, Amanda, Damien - decoys/damage control
Yes, I believe that NK, JG, Robert and possibly others were deeply involved in Gaia. That would, according to Gaia’s own teachings and sacred texts make them enemies of God and therefore in league with satan.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WattsCaseEvidence/comments/i5obzc/thoughts_on_nk_kobak_821_phone_interview_with/
Tamara Magdalene the lioness
On another channel, the person mentions very similar things as you do. She says that this was a satanic ritualistic killing and that Chris Watts was mind controlled. She also mentioned that the neighbors and the cops were all part of this group that gets a kick out of sensationalizing these kind behaviors and is a part of demoralizing human lives. Also, his mistress was sent in there to trigger one of his many alters to carry out the ritualistic killing. She basically mentions same thing as you do, energetically.
He doesn't want people to find out it was a ritual. This began when he was a toddler... his parents participated in certain 'darker' religious practices... at least back then & they are surely horrified this will come to light. They involved him in these practices & things were set in motion way back then... to be carried out at a future time... exactly as it did. (NK also was influenced by outside forces) Certainly explains the nastiness that seems to follow the Watts family like a cloud. Not saying they're not to blame... because they are, as are the parents.
Recently struck by a piece in the official interview with CW boss. He mentions going out to cervi when SW was declared missing. He states there is a team out there. Needs investigated. At that point, the girls are in the tank.
Vanina Sucharitkul
DeleteYes, he's one of the four accomplices. Troy McCoy who lied about returning to cervi-319 on Tuesday so LE asked him to come in for the second interview. He's part of orchestrating the manufactured leak and met with Chris at a shopping mall parking lot to look at an "Amazon firestick" on a Friday afternoon holiday to get that call from his roommate Kodi on speaker about the leak. Check out the co-workers interview by channel c.d.t. about the co-workers' involvement.
That family got $70 million in settlement from Anadarko. This theory is well established and I believe it, except that I don't think the children were part of the plan. They were collateral to ensure that CW followed through and I think CW wanted to pull out. There's also a reported gunshot some night before and some thought that CW was threatened that he had to follow through. NK, Troy, Kodi were in on it. Anthony Brown was the most truthful in the police statement and actually name dropped NK and said Chris had been dating Nikki for 5 months. Troy and Kodi covered for NK. Jim, the geologist, was probably involved too, driving the red car to bring the body(ies), since Troy and Kodi's GPS were tracked and they arrived at Cervi-319 after the other co-workers.
If you watch Troy and Kodi's interview with the offices and compare them with the discovery file, they lied throughout their testimony and their statements did not match their geotag, GPS, etc. Them being part of the oil explosion plan is not at all far fetched. I absolutely agree that the loading of the truck was a diversion and there were several cars involved and you can still see the headlights in Nate's CCTV.
His co-worker Anthony Brown name dropped Nikki and implied they've been dating for 5 months. Troy and Kodi covered for NK and they both lied in their interview that the discovery file proved to be false (e.g. Troy saying he didn''t answer CW's 6:40 am call because he was driving but geotag shows he was not). Begs the question of what Troy and Kodi knew about the plan. Plus their firestick meeting.
They did have a burner phone. NK forgot her burner phone Murder Monday and that's why she used her own phone to call Leave Him Alone Jim and pinged at Fredericks at 6.16 am. That phone was found on the basement by LE in body cam and they thought it was CW's work phone but it wasn't.
CW and NK are known liars and their statements don't even match the record. They said they first slept together 3 July and met end of June. Shannan posted her pregnancy video 11 June and Chris said he felt guilty in his later interview because of NK and that's why he had that awkward reaction. NK deleted everything and LE was only able to recover part of the exchanges. That's why we know, for example, that Jun 29 CW said he "can't wait to sleep next to her warm body again" but they said they first became intimate July 3 so that already doesn't match.
NK deleted everything and LE was only able to recover part of the exchanges. That's why we know, for example, that Jun 29 CW said he can't wait to sleep next to her warm body again but they said they first became intimate July 3 so that already doesn't match.
OTHER COMMENTS
DeleteI subscribe to a different theory and that there were more accomplices. The kids were collateral to make sure Chris carries through with the plan to blow up the batteries. Shannan was the only one to go. The kids ended up being collateral damage due to others, not Chris. I'm not saying Chris should get out of jail though, don't get me wrong. A lot of people have lied in their interviews including his co-workers Troy and Kodi whose statements do not match the geotag and discovery at all. There are obvious questions about NK and Jim as well.
Shannan posted her pregnancy video on FB 11 June and he said he felt guilty because he was with NK. Then the next day, they exchange this email because everybody at work already knew? They had been having an affair a long time before this email. Co-worker Anthony Brower gave an interview in the discovery file that they had been dating for 5 months. This is just a contrived email for HR. THey lied to LE that their affair began end of June.
Well, didn't she basically lie about everything in her interview? She said it was not a serious affair and she wasn't into him (when she was googling wedding dresses and gave CW a key to her apartment and told she wanted to give him his first son). She said she didn't know Shannan's name (when she googled Shannan Watts 1 September 2017 then again multiple times). She said her and CW never travelled together, then backtracked. She lied about not remember her 111 minute phone call. She lied about wanting CW to work on his marriage (since she got pissed at him in NC for not calling her then proceeded to send him nudes and cringey giggly videos), she said the Lazy Dog was the only time they've been in public together (lie), how many times she's been to CW's place, not knowing SW was pregnant (Anthony Brown said he announced it at work and everybody knew), CW invited her to the house to install fitness app (she went nuts when CW left her place to go home and talk to Shannan after several missed call and she stalked him because she didn't want to be no. 2), her whereabouts on Monday (Fredericks ping), hiding her alibi? I don't think there was any truth in her entire statement!
superminkie wrote on reddit:
ReplyDeleteI think she's a friend of NK secretly working against CW, blamming SW, and taking the heat off NK.
What I find odd with this Kim lady (KK) is actually jeopardizing CW's 35(c) and our chance of finding our the truth and holding others accountable. CW said to private investigator on the call that he felt his confession was coerced, brought up the fruit of the poisonous tree. This means that his basis for the 35(c) would be coerced confession (meaning false confession) through the Reid technique to get the confession thrown out and new evidence and material fact (flipping on accomplices).
By KK trying to amateurely "prove" that the first confession was true and blame Shanann negates any legal basis or possibility for the 35(c) and thereby ensuring that he has no chance of getting the confession thrown out.
So in my view, she is actually secretly working against him so I wonder if she actually has any ties with NK, especially now knowing that she followed CW and SW before the murders.
So the original video I posted was taken down probably because KK filed a strike but the YouTube creator did an investigation on her background including finding her high school photo. During the live chat, I saw people reverse searching and confirming that she followed CW and SW before the murder and then during the Live, KK all of a sudden changed the privacy setting of her twitter account to private.
As for years, I don't know the year. I wouldn't be surprised that she knows NK since she takes her narrative away from NK and I've heard her defend NK in various YouTube channels and the timing is just very coincidental and the hatred she has for Shannan is the same level as NK and CW's penpal who has shown receipt of letters from CW known as "Blaire" said NK and KK know each other.
[-]dugdiggins
NK is still in the picture through Kim, and this is how NK is keeping CW in check.
That's her whole purpose. She knows what she's doing.
She's working with NK to keep CW from exposing the plan that got botched when Shanann changed her iPhone password and then NA brought in the police early, on the first day. The plan involved NK and others, as you outlined in other posts here on reddit.
CW could expose the plan you outlined in other posts, and NK is making sure that doesn't happen by continuing to manipulate CW, giving him false hope that they can be together again some day.
So, CW has kept in contact with NK through Kim. We know that Kim has been on CW's visitor's log from the beginning, and we know that Kim communicates with CW's family.
CW is protecting NK because he's still in love with her, and he is still in contact with her through the Kim connection.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Chriswatts/comments/k3bfvo/who_is_kim_kauffman/ge4i1g3/?context=3
Excerpts from CW's letters published in CC's book
ReplyDeleteLetter 1 to Cadle
March 14, 2019
Turned several authors and journalists down. Felt like god gave me an ultimatum to respond to you.
When LE visited me in prison, felt like God told me to clear my wife's name.
Will do a book if you give me a chapter where I can tell about his forgiveness and coming to faith so may be it will help someone else not take the same path as me.
Letter 2
April 23, 2019
Would like to be a chaplain someday, start going to prisons and help inmates.
On August 12, tucked the babies in bed and thought to myself that's the last time I'm tucking them in.
On August 13, before arguing with SW, went to Bella's room, then Cece's and and used a pillow from their bed. That's why the cause of death was smothering. Got back in bed with SW, argument ensued. After SW had passed, Bella and Cece woke back up.
SW's system had oxycodone because I gave it to her. Thought it would be easier to be with NK if SW wasn't pregnant.
Had a dream that Cece was dancing next to my chair in the cell.
Undated letter addressed to Frank, Sandi and Frankie
"I'm sorry for the utter pain and anguish that I've cost your family....I know you must hate me for what I have done and honestly, I would be surprised if you didn't... I pray that one day you can have forgiveness for me... I pray every day that both families can meet at the grave site hold hands, pray and talk about great times... Share funny Facetime conversations".
Letter 3
April 4, 2019
"God has opened my eyes to a few things I was holding in my heart that I didn't acknowledge to myself".
Never had a psychological exam.
Asperger's symptoms make a lot of sense.
Undated letter to Cadle # 4
First night in Weld County Jail, had a vision of my grandparents. Realized I did have a demon inside me. Attorney team treated me not like a client, but a friend. Went through a lot of dark times in that jail but Jesus showed me the light.
"You wanted me to give you some detail into the life of me, Shanann and the girls so here we go... Once in the car, Bella would find their car ride snacks and disburse one to Celeste and then I would buckle them up... Usually Bella wanted Shanann and Celeste wanted me... I'll never forget her (SW) walking down the aisle, looking flawless, and seeing her look into my eyes when she walked up to me and saying, "Breathe". She literally took my breath away.... I seemed to always walk on egg shells around Shanann. There was uneasiness and careful/fearful planning with every step I took. That is not what love should feel like, but I never communicated that to her".
CONTINUED BELOW...
Undated letter # 5 to Cadle
Delete"You ask if there's anything I haven't talked about in regards to Nikki, honestly, I'm not sure what I've said and what I haven't, but this is what I know. She had a small group of friends that she didn't tell me about.
This sentence can only be found in print on P 200 of the book. It's not in the actual letter. You can see a copy of the letter in this video at 3:55
https://youtu.be/w2QiKxL038U
.... She had been involved in an abusive relationship... She took medications... "
... "She said, I got mad because I thought I could give you a son, and when you told me you and your wife were trying, that made me upset. That would be a first for you that we could have together....
..."Obviously, Nikki was insisting that I make more time with her no matter what".
Gave SW oxy. 80 mg oxy should have caused her to lose the baby.
Next 8 days, ignored SW every night. Did this so I could talk to Nikki for hours.
"It was obvious during these conversations she didn't want me to spend time with my family or try to make things better with Shanann because she had nothing good at all to say about my family life. This twisted my head"....
..."Any hope of repairing my marriage was over when Nikki gave me a key to her place"...
"Last time I saw Nikki was August 11 when we went out to eat.... She said she felt we had been taking things really fast since we were together pretty much every night possible in June and July. She had started telling her friends about me and I could tell she was making plans for our future together"...
Letter to Cadle # 6
June 17, 2019
Can't think of a physical reason why dogs went crazy in the basement. May be they felt evil spirits.
"Never saw my marriage as a struggle until I met Nikki".
"She (SW) was always so stressed about money that I felt the slightest thing would set her off".
https://www.reddit.com/r/Chriswatts/comments/kip5vu/excerpts_from_cws_letters_published_in_ccs_book/
Comment from youtube:
ReplyDelete3 different versions of a discovery - the 4th and final is the redacted one lol.
It's a COVER UP.
THEY DO NOT WANT THE PUBLIC TO GET BLACK AND WHITE PROOF OF WHAT THEY DID HERE ONCE IT WAS MADE KNOWN WHO all WAS INVOLVED.
A $55 billion dollar business deal is what this case ended up being about.
NOT finding justice for the murder victims - they got the fall guy in there so it would satisfy people.
Sure there were some bits and pieces of factual info in each new discovery they released, for it to somewhat be believed and align with who they charged. They purposely released everything they did to keep people in the public confused, thinking they know something is not right but can't exactly understand what. Lol, sadly not first time in history this has ever happened, so not sure why so many cannot figure out this is what's going on.
Maybe in another 2 years everyone finally will be on same page of, yes, the mistress was involved (she is seen on video in driveway people!, her phone pings in Frederick that morning, her damn truck was parked most of day down the street and registered to a "Kessinger") - it cannot BE more clear she was there, yet how many are still asking if anyone thinks police know this?!
YES THEY KNOW AND NO ARE NOT GOING TO DO ANYTHING! Again- it's why there is a COVER UP.
But the truth is in what he is NOT saying, because it leads directly to the actual killers - he is still guilty, make no mistake on this, for allowing his family to be murdered.
To give anyone insight to who actually did this horrific crime would defeat the entire purpose of creating the "evidence" you all still are straining to understand - things specifically created to get the result it has and, sadly, no end in sight to people seriously dissecting made up crap, discoveries lol.
Omg people WAKE UP to what went on after the fact here!!
You are wasting your time for over a year trying to crack this case of what happened - police ALREADY know all that happened or they would not have provided such telling yet confusing to so many - offering up this scenario to fit who they charged with murders.
Omg. It is dumbfounding how many of you are seriously either clueless or still desperately struggling to figure this case out. Smh.
In over a year and a half, trying to figure out the "truth" from documents, interviews spliced, videos spliced and CRAFTED by the police as part of a pretty BAD LE cover up that was easy to spot from day 1 if you have common sense and know anything about how the system works.
And then add in a situation not related to this case going on in the backgroud - but because of who is involved TIES it to this case - it becomes quite CLEAR wtf happened here.
And why the public is still stuck on stupid going over and over "evidence" released from what - 3 different versions of a discovery - the 4th and final is the redacted one lol.
And with everyone hanging onto every word uttered from Chris' mouth in each and every one of his 4+ confessions - each one with people saying, "he FINALLY told the truth!" NO. HE DIDNT.
https://youtu.be/7oj2QkI6I28
Chris Watts' pen pal Blair on AD on 12/17/2020
ReplyDeleteBlair is not her real name.
She gets followed to and from work.
Her car was vandalized.
She's since put up security cameras.
He's being put under pressure from someone at the prison, either a prisoner or someone who works there.
She's goes to school for criminal justice and she has a need to understand the motive, etc.
She wrote him and was surprised he wrote back.
It was thru pen and paper; it was not until recently that he got a tablet.
She doesn't think the FBI or CBI know the complete truth.
Kim is trying to control the narrative.
Overall he's very nice and respective and has never said anything negative about his family or the Rzuceks.
She thinks he was definitely involved to an extent and is withholding info.
He doesn't fit into the typical profile (the science behind it).
Almost every single piece of writing has some religion in it.
She thinks is he not in control of his own life and actions, even now.
He doesn't want to make anyone mad, or create conflict, so he just goes along with it.
She thinks others were involved in these murders, definately, based on the things he's said, bits and pieces, and the sloppy investigation, and it's almost impossible for one person to carry out the act.
The police were only looking for one motive, that was it, and they didn't want to look any further.
People give false and altered confessions all the time.
He knows what's being said about the case because he talks to many people.
She doesn't know what he means "about his own protection".
He always speaks vaguely and he speaks in code so it's difficult to know exactly his message.
Not really anything in his letters about the murders.
She thinks he doesn't want SW blamed for being the murderer.
She thinks this is all he has in his life, this online madness.
She has 12 letters from him (some up to 8 pages, front and back).
The handwritten letters since Kim has been involved aren't as many and are staggered.
He never spoke negatively of Cadle - "his story wasn't fully told to his liking".
CONTINUED BELOW...
It's her opinion the Kim is friends with NK, and public research supports this.
DeleteEveryone cannot say NK's name except for Kim.
Kim is only there to distract - the purpose of her channel since the 35c appeal came up.
NK lawyered up and changed her name when the 35c appeal came up.
She doesn't think he is truly remorseful or sorry because someone who is truly religious, who believes in redemption, would come forward with the truth.
He needs to come clean.
She thinks he was close and heading there, and then someone stopped him.
He's not said a lot to her about NK - it's always very short and very minimal, and nothing pivotal has been said to her that she can share.
His relationship with his mother seems to be good, and his family is very important to him.
Why is he appealing? She's tried telling that it is her belief that she doesn't think he did the murders, or at the very least, that he acted alone.
There are in reality are six elements for his appeal, and his real chance is with new evidence that would shed light on the true murderer or implicating others, which could be as little as others being there.
He's mentioned some things about media, press, change of venue, the DA.
All this came to a halt when Kim became more involved.
In the least, he is an accessory after the fact and tampering with evidence (his sentence could be time served or he could get out when he's 60-70 years old) - one charge for 3 crimes could be 15 years for each charge.
She wants people to keep an open mind.
She's in training/education for forensic science.
The red car - he has recently mentioned that the red car is important
Chris has a tablet in his cell and can send and receive emails (it's monitored thru a delay)
Chris has terminated Kim even though his family hasn't.
She's been talking to him for two years.
She definitely has many personal letters.
Armchair Detective, No hiding place!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv3dfV09m3c
AD - Emails from CW through Blair 11/23/2020
DeleteUnderstand what happened and how things happen (too many channels worried only about money and not seeking the truth)
Look more into the red car because it has so much more to say to the story
Focus more on the gray truck sighting and anything related to the Freemasons
Focus on the basement (there were four people there, according to someone in contact with CW, per AD)
Focus on clothing of the summer heat (long sleeves in the driveway video and long sleeves worn by NK in interviews)
He's scared of people in the prison (guard, mail room, another prisoner)
Informed recaps of AD channel is given to CW by family and pen pals
CW: I do feel I will one day have my day in court and justice will be brought forth
AD - Emails from CW through Blair 12/15/2020
CW I've been facing challenges here myself with the external forces of my family's wishes and desires (to support KK)
CW: I hope one day to speak more openly and freely without the motivation of others (he's being controlled)
https://youtu.be/eLmxTRjo5S0
tnih
Delete12 days ago
Galactic Nachos did a great job describing her. I initially learned of her from watching The Armchair Detective (AD) channel / videos. So I can give a first-hand account of her from that POV, hopefully complimenting Galactic Nachos post:
Around about November-ish of 2020, AD was pushing a narrative that he was helping Chris Watts and the Watts family with an appeal. Chris was ready to roll on his accomplice(s), according to AD.
A week or two after that, there's news of a new Chris Watts Channel coming to YouTube called Revelation in the Reckoning. AD plugs the channel, claiming he's been working in concert with Kim (KK), the person who runs Revelation in the Reckoning. According to AD, she was legit, her videos were "credible," and she would be delivering the first major step towards Chris's appeal. (AD has since deleted this video)
Unfortunately for AD, when KK began producing videos, her narrative was different than ADs. KK was claiming she had proof Shannan killed the children, then Chris, in a rage, killed her. KK also said she was aware of ADs channel, but had never spoken to, nor worked with him. To clear the deck, KK played a recorded phone call she had with Chris Watts from Prison, where Chris said he didn't know who AD was, had never communicated with AD, and only KK was acting on his behalf. Not AD or anyone else.
AD was angered by this, and he began lashing out at KK. KK wasn't gaining a lot of popularity by blaming Shannan for the murders. AD actually looked this charge against her, saying how dare she victim blame a woman who's not here to defend herself.
It was at this time that ADs audience was introduced to "Blair." AD described Blair as a good friend / pen pal of Chris. AD went on to describe Blair as "an attractive 30-something female with long brunette hair." AD began having Blair as a guest on his channel. Her voice was altered and her camera was covered.
Blair tells ADs audience she has an important message to deliver from Chris Watts. Chris Watts (allegedly) told Blair that everything he said to KK about AD was forced. Chris knows and admires AD, and he's sorry he was forced to say those things. Blair went on to say that Chris would be delivering Blair "clues" that she was to pass on to AD. Chris trusted that AD was the only one that would understand the clues, and he hoped solve the case. The first clue was for AD to look further into the red car.
CONTINUED...
Before the next clue arrived, Blair had an unfortunate mishap, and the cover fell off her camera. People were taken aback as she didn't look at all like AD described. Instead she was a bit overweight, with a receding hairline and glasses. In fact, many speculated Blair was actually a guy.
DeleteAD lashed out at these comments saying people were shaming Blair for her looks. AD had Blair's mom on as a guest, who said Blair had been bullied about her looks most of her life. Indeed most felt bad about the pulling on. The subject was dropped. But it does make you wonder why AD lied about what Blair like like.
Anyway, Blair continued to deliver Chris Watts clues to AD. Most of the clues were cryptic, and hard to make heads or tails of. Things like, "the evil one hides within plain site. Find a flashlight and you'll find truth."
As these cryptic clues were being combed over by AD on YouTube and in Patreon, a close friend of Blair started talking. She said Blair's real name is Heather. She claimed that Heather was writing Chris months back, but Chris had ghosted her in September of 2020. This meant everything delivered to AD by Blair / Heather was fake. Blair's friend insisted that AD was not in on it, rather he was being duped by Blair / Heather.
According to the friend, after KK sort of dismissed Heather, her plan B was to deliver AD a message she knew he'd lap up.
This news had many people examining the alleged communications (emails) Blair had flashed on screen. Turns out, the messages appeared edited. It looked like Blair / Heather was taking old messages from Chris, and editing in the date and content. It's hard to say for sure, because she would only flash them on screen for a second. But looking at them, the font definitely looked different, as did the margins.
With the new Heather / Blair controversy, Heather stepped aside, saying the whole situation had become toxic, stressful and not good for her health or well-being.
A month or so after that, Heather introduced her own, new YouTube channel, called Unmurdered. Here she tries to answer the allegations of her friend, and settle the controversy surrounding her Chris Watts messages.
AD doesn't speak too much about her anymore. Although I believe they remain friendly
My .02: I never believed Chris was giving AD clues thru Blair. It just seemed ridiculous to me. Clues for what? The clues were clearly trying to point at an accomplice and/or accomplices. But if that were true, why the games? Why couldn't Chris just say what he had to say?
Plus, there were so many little giveaways, exposing the whole ordeal as a fake. This is already becoming a novel, but just one example: Back when Blair was actively delivering Chris Watts' emails to AD, AD did a promo saying he had an exclusive photo Chris provided him thru Blair. AD said this photo was of Chris and NK at the sand dunes. AD said it was a never before seen photo, and held critical insight into cracking the case. However when AD finally revealed the photo, many did a reverse search of it, and it's a very generic stock photo of two silhouettes, zip lining over sand dunes, in a sunset. The photo appears as a stock photo on many travel/ adventure websites. No way is that Chris or NK. Heather now says it was just a postcard Chris sent her. She says AD embellished the story behind it, and she just went with it..
Anyway, sorry for the novel. But I hope it's helpful. There are still many that believe her. Others believe AD was / is being duped by her, while others believe the two of them were in on it together, and they duped the audience. I suppose we'll never know for 100% sure..? 🤷♂️l
https://www.reddit.com/r/Chriswatts/comments/n1ejej/blairheather/
GalacticNachos wrote:
DeleteI don't know the full story behind her. I only know what I've heard, with a few receipts:
-- Watts asked for her to be removed from his visitors/call list around Sept. 2020 (I think) because she was being too "persistent" (the word I prefer to use; others are more harsh). He doesn't correspond with her anymore.
-- She messaged KK and asked KK if she could ask Watts why he ghosted her. Screenshots were shown. I wish I could remember on which channel (it might have been KK's). KK told her that Watts said she was making him feel uncomfortable.
-- Apparently writing to prisoners is a hobby of hers and she corresponds with a few others. She says it's for professional research, but someone doxxed her completely unrelated job (I won't).
-- Some people say one of AD's mods is her mom (???) - I'm blanking on her name. I have no clue if this one is even remotely true.
She falls in my "Women Who Are Oh So Proud of Their Letters From a Family Annihilator" category and, as such, I can't take her seriously. Particularly when, in one of her videos, she said, "If it weren't for the murders, I think you guys would really like him!" (paraphrased).
I think Crafton exposed some of her BS but then he deleted the video? I try not to watch any of them anymore. I'm done.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Chriswatts/comments/n1ejej/blairheather/
Pagan Calendar
ReplyDeleteAugust 13th
Goddess Hekate was given offerings, or sacrifices, in Samothrace, asking for protection from the storms – and from terror.
Day of Hekate
Published August 13, 2017 | By shirleytwofeathers
In Italy, August 13 is the Day of Hekate. Hekate is an exceptionally powerful spirit. She holds dominion over life, death, regeneration, and magic. She rules wisdom, choices, expiation, victory, vengeance, and travel. Hekate guards the frontier between life and death. She is an intermediary between the spirit world and that of humans. She is the witness to all crimes, especially those against women and children.
Here’s a Hekate Ritual from “Moon Magick” by D.J. Conway. While this ritual can be done on any day dedicated to this Queen of the Night, the Spirit World, and Witchcraft, I thought this might be something interesting for today:
You will need:
a ritual dagger
small cauldron
a wand
an apple
a piece of black cloth
a small bit of salt
other ritual items you might choose to use.
https://shirleytwofeathers.com/The_Blog/pagancalendar/day-of-hekate/
Brigette Turner wrote on Sloan Bella's youtube channel:
DeleteI feel that the attention this case has garnered here on You Tube about the Watt's case has kept the resounding Beast energy continuing on. It's like "Groundhog Day", the energy that was received by the Sacrifice to (Moloch) just continues on through the constant attention it is given.
Moloch, The Ancient God Of Child Sacrifice
Moloch (also Molech, Mollok, Milcom, or Malcam) is the biblical name of a Canaanite god associated with child sacrifice, through fire or war.
In ancient times, it was commonly associated with people hoping for greater fertility for either a person or the land but one cult stands out from the rest: the cult of Moloch, the Canaanite god of child sacrifice. The cult of Moloch — who is also called Molech — is said to have boiled children alive in the bowels of a big, bronze statue with the body of a man and the head of a bull.
Offerings, at least according to the Hebrew Bible, were to be reaped through either fire or war — and devotees can still be found today.
Scholars have compared Biblical references to Greek and Latin accounts which spoke of fire-centric child sacrifices in the Carthaginian city of Punic. Plutarch, for instance, wrote of burning children as an offering Baal Hammon, though they mistakenly attribute these sacrifices to the Roman gods Chronos and Saturn.
https://allthatsinteresting.com/moloch
Sloan Bella wrote on her youtube channel:
DeleteRW raised his son in a satanic ritual family. It brings great reward to the family. Chris carrying this out is an honor for evil.
leigh wrote on Sloan Bella's youtube channel:
I can assure you that Occult ritual sexual abuse is real!! It happened to me back in 1968 in my own neighborhood!! I was almost 5 when it happened but I remember all of it! They told me that i would get candy if i played a game. I was blind folded then made to lay down on the floor. I remember hearing all these people walking in trying to be quiet but it didn't work because I could hear their footsteps as they came in the room. I reached up to pull the blindfold off and someone grabbed my hand and said, Don't do that or you won't get any candy!! I was molested and then, right after, made to drink something gross. Then the lady had me repeat things she was saying. I later realized that someone had me involved in a satanic ritual on that day. This family also went to our church! The main thing I am angry about is WHO HAD ME INVOLVED!! Also I wonder who I would have seen and known. Also, would I have been murdered if I would have successfully pulled the blindfold down! This is hard for me to talk about but people need to know that this goes on every day in this world! I do believe Jon Benet was killed in an occult ritual and a lot of times the people involved have a lot of power and control in their community. Her case may not get solved but I hope one day it does. God can make anything possible!
https://youtu.be/v4i5WYDiEGs
Ria S wrote on youtube:
I believe, that, yes others were involved 100%. The FBI returning to interview Chris is proof, that they believe others was involved. My theory now is that Chris was being drugged (like having a spell put on him), to desensitise him, and hypnotise him over a period of time, to make him follow through, with the plan. His allegiance to prove his devotion to the NK was part of this hideous. crime. There are many layers to this crime, and I believe they used and justified the murders of the whole family as part of a form of a satanic ritual. In satanic rituals and sacrifices, killing young children and pregnant women, babies, born and unborn, are all to increase the potency of the evil powers or rewards they expect in return. Murders took place on the 13th August 2018.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEeMPkKBEJ8
Mary Goff
DeleteWhen you take a man like Chris, domineered by his mother, disconnected from his thoughts/feelings (because only his mother's needs and feelings mattered) and you put him on an intersection to meet NK (who immersed herself in witchcraft) you have a powder keg ready to blow. Destined for disaster...
Miss Ladybug
The bible calls it temptation... I believe that when Shannan was talking on FB about Chris being sent into her life by God she unknowingly attracted a bad energy, a jealous "Jezabel" energy, aka, Nichol Kessinger.
Sylvia Wedding
I think she totally knew what her intent was and she gets off on it, and I dont think it's the first time shes used abused or whatever u want to call what she did. And she will keep ruining ppl lives. You can tell by looking at her she's evil and she enjoys it. Hopefully, it don't go this far with the next man.
barbm1001
I think she plays a lot of mind games, is cunning and clever, has her own best interest at heart. There are ppl that cause chaos and destruction for pleasure. There are those that like to watch the break down of other souls.
Sloan Bella
100 %, but the families play together energetically to raise their rank inside their ritual bondage organization.
Bethany Fury
I wonder if he wasn't supposed to get caught or if his getting caught was part of the "sacrifice", as well, to elevate his family in their status within their "group".
Barbara
I am sorry but the explanation about Chris Watts was really “out there”. Lots of killers have said that “something came over them”... how about no conscience? I believe he knew right from wrong and it is simple as that! And, the plan for Chris is for him to be in prison for the rest of his life.
Sloan Bella
Yes, on earth he does this does not absolve his guilt although,, realistically life in prison is nothing really for what he did. Yes, most serial killers are pushed out of their physical bodies. Conscience is a soul connection when a demonic energy enters the body and the soul human conscious is removed. People need to educate themselves about this. Also the family is satanic; they raised him to do this.
Ann P
Laura Loochie, I heartily agree! Her dad must be a Free Mason. Often cops and other officials are too. They vow to help each other no matter of guilt. This is a coverup. She should be brought in.
Regina's Haunted Library
DeleteDo you think it's significant in an occult sense that Watts was 33 when he committed the murders?
Diana
Yes, FREEMASONS and occultists always mock Jesus, and he was 33 when he died on cross for our salvation. It's definitely relevant in my opinion.
KntryGrl Life
I've always believed that CW's family upbringing had a lot to do with this case. His mother is as delusional as CW is!!! My thoughts on NK is she's a "succubus" in human form. I read somewhere that CW wasn't her first "victim". That she had a history of going after married men, but none had the same outcome as the Watts' case.
Sloan Bella
YES, Exactly, that is why I said in spirit form she's ugly in her essence.
Yin Yang
I am a pranic healer and i totally understand the concept of attached entities and inorganic elementals that get attached to one's aura and energy field... it's a real thing and people should really be very careful with kind of people they're having relationship with. This in and out happening all the time and in most cases is so subtle that the host doesn't even understand or feel it.
Sloan Bella
Happens so much. Extreme acts of violence are complete take over, even temporarily.
Niki Fix
Funny you mentioned “clapping” to make a dog do something. I wish I could find this video of someone finding “clicking” going on through the police cams , etc that seemed to be “controlling” Chris.
Mitch Yap
There is a deleted video of tamara magdalene's theory. It was copied by another channel just search Unitedwecantfall.
https://youtu.be/b0AZN3JURME
Superminkie wrote on reddit:
ReplyDeleteI really pay attention to the slip-of-the tongue phenomenon and when he kep declaring I did not kill my babies, he was in a state of shock and confusion, then he said "It doesn't make sense, nothing makes sense, why would she be there" (starts at hour 6h17 of 7 hour youtube video). I always thought that was a slip about NK since Shannan was obviously meant to be there and the kids were not part of the plan. From all those videos, he seems to genuinely adore those girls.
I fully believe in the explosion theory. I used to work at the DA and have been an attorney for 16 years and when I look at a premeditated crime, I have to start at the beginning. The 17 April 2017 Firestone explosion causing 2 fatalities, the 25 May 2017 Mead explosion killing 1 contract worker injuring 3. Anadarko was in serious breach of safety violation, investor class action, stocks tanked, disgruntled employees, low morale. Anadarko settled with the wrongful death for the April victim at $70 million. Here, nobody would bring the bodies to cervi-319 unless there was a get-away with murder plan (explosion = accidental death = wrongful death suit = hundreds of millions in settlement).
The difference in our theories is I'm not too much into the witchcraft factor, and I think Troy is involved in some capacity given the amount of his lying during the interview on the most innocuous things, the coincidental fire stick meeting, and him not needing to be at Cervi 319 on Monday yet there he was.
Plus Troy had exchanged texts about explosions with CW. And he's Kodi's roomate, and they both covered for NK, which seemed suspicious since everybody at work knew Troy was close to CW. Troy returned to Cervi the next day and then lied about it ,so he was called in for another interview and was quick to throw CW under the bus and distance himself, despite all the suspicious lies.
Now my question for you is how much do you think Chris knew about what would happen or how "in it" in the plan was he? I get that he is easily manipulated, maliable, a follower, beta male, but he still does not appear evil to me or, unless he was so manipulated, to hate Shannan that he was willing to get rid of her.
I sometimes wonder if he was trying to get bail out of the plan, hence regretting going to the Lazy Dog, and the packed blue duffle bag could have been him trying to leave the house when he disconnected from wifi. What are your thoughts?
WaimeaBay replied:
DeleteTheory: I think CW knew about the entire plan and was well aware that the whole family was to be terminated. However, I believe the discussions would have all been couched in that make-believe, disconnected from reality, fairytale speak way he has of talking. Like a 9 year old. It’s an act. And I was fooled for a few years but no more.
I believe the discovery supports the theory of premeditation and prior collusion between CW and NK to:
Stage an explosion for financial reward. Listen to her and Kobak in one of the formerly redacted interviews. It’s all there. Kobak knows NK is the alpha and omega of the oil leak information flow of Anadarko via Tasman.
Hide the multiple homicide of Shan’ann, Bella, Celeste and Nico within the explosion until such time it would be discovered that, tragically, Shan’ann had been within the burn zone of the explosion, and her phone ping would have confirmed that. People would assume the children were with her. As NK said, ‘If she was gonna leave, they should probably go with her’. ETA: Listen to her tone of voice when she says these words. She sounds miffed and annoyed.
Create and maintain the illusion that while this all took place, CW and NK were both at work or had solid alibis. Just another day at the office. Nothing to see here.
superminkie replied:
DeleteI still find it hard to believe that CW would have been okay to have his kids killed too. Statistically speaking, fathers rarely murder their children. I can see him agreeing to Shannan but he did seem to adore the girls. Also, he was so adamant during the first confession about not having killed the girls.
In the 7 hour long interview at 6h17, he said "It doesn't make sense, nothing makes sense, why would she be there." I think he refers to NK showing up and doing that deed. I also think the girls bodies may have been put in the tank by JG and NK on Tuesday and that's why they were sick. CW had no scratch mark, no sweat, acting normal. I would imagine him being way too freaked out.
WaimeaBay replied:
I agree that NK and JG put the girls in the tanks and participated in a lot of the killing.
I don’t think CW had the stomach to do the actual wet work, aside from giving the girls oxy or Benadryl.
IMO, he thinks it makes him less horrible that he didn’t physically kill them (ETA: IF that happened to be the case) but only agreed to their deaths. Because that’s not as bad as actually killing them. In his sick mind.
He did adore the girls. But he had to choose. IMO, NK made sure he knew it was an either/or situation.
ETA: Let me correct/amend that to say she pushed him hard, very hard (to choose, IMO) but, once he gave in, he was fully enjoying it, the sports cars (he was looking at), the financial freedom, not only of huge debt but of two (or potentially three) very precious but (at times) health-challenged children and all that brings with it. One thing it brings with it is more huge debt.
I think he looked at the bottom-line financial reward (for lack of a better word) and saw on paper how much he stood to gain (in my theory) with his entire family gone.
I agree with your comment about him not killing his girls. He says it with a lot of emotion and it seemed natural and not forced. And it came out strongly right away. He didn’t cautiously word it like when he started talking about NK.
I def agree NK had her hands on both Bella and Shan’ann. And I also agree that’s why her and JG got sick.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Chriswatts/comments/jmsch5/cw_and_nk_interview_strategies_alibis_lies/ghul2vc/?context=3
[–]superminkie
DeleteI definitely believe that NK was there around the time stated above at the end of the 111 minute call and leaving around 12.42 pm on Monday.
On Saturday, NK googled Shannan Watts, Ronnie Watts, and Saratoga Trail address.
During the 111 minute call, CW gets a call from SW which he doesn't answer but he also got a text that her flight was delayed. I believe NK drove over there and at a certain point, CW leaves his house, his phone disconnects from wi-fi for like 30 minutes and then he gets back in his house at the end of the call, probably with NK and vivint alerts, wifi reconnects.
There's debate about a woman with a pony tail on the CCTV camera that morning. Since there's some disagreement on this, I'll leave this as a debate and continue on the list.
NK's phone pinged at Fredericks at 6.16 am calling Jim for 1 minute. It's the only time her phone ever pinged there besides from the two days she is confirmed to have been at CW's house. It is not the route she takes to work and it's the only morning she doesn't call CW in the morning. Plus, there's no evidence of her clocking into work that morning.
After NA showed up before noon and tried to open the door, CW tried to get her to leave. She left around 12.20 and this is backed up by her GPS that she was at SW's doctor at 12.40. There's a person inside the house that alerts the garage from inside at 12.42 pm. I believe NK was still staying back cleaning up the crime scene and then left once CW told her NA showed up. That is why she was so pissed during the interview about NA showing up.
During CW's first confession, when asked about being okay with word getting out there that SW killed the girls, he says "It doesn't make sense. Nothing makes sense. Why would she be there?" Well, he's certainly not referring to SW because it's her house and she's meant to be there. I believe he was referring to NK.
Ronnie also slipped while CW confessed to him about the scruffle and asked "Is that when they left?" That's why I think he told Ronnie that Jim and NK showed up.
Hope this helps support all the points about NK being at present at the house.
[–]superminkie
DeleteDuring the 111 minute call, at about 30 minutes before the call ends, Chris leaves his house and disconnects from wifi. Perhaps he went outside to meet JG and NK then brought them in at the end of the call where vivint alerts and he reconnects to wifi. That's when I think they came to the house.
CW seems to much of a coward to me to carry through and I agree he may have freaked out and wanted to pull out so NK and JG have to show up.
Notice Ronnie asking CW in the confession "Is that when they left?"
I'm still not convinced the kids were killed yet. I think they were probably collateral to make sure he carries through with the plan. It would seem easy for NK to convince him to get rid of his wife after planting seeds of how horrible she is. But his children? That's a whole other level. I still find it hard to believe that CW would have been okay to have his kids killed too. Statistically speaking, fathers rarely murder their children. I can see him agreeing to Shannan but he did seem to adore the girls. Also, he was so adamant during the first confession about not having killed the girls.
In the 7 hour long interview at 6h17, he said "It doesn't make sense, nothing makes sense, why would she be there." I think he refers to NK showing up and doing that deed.
I also think the girls bodies may have been put in the tank by JG and NK on Tuesday and that's why they were sick. CW had no scratch mark, no sweat, acting normal. I would imagine him being way too freaked out.
https://old.reddit.com/r/Chriswatts/comments/jmsch5/cw_and_nk_interview_strategies_alibis_lies/
Bunnoir wrote on reddit:
ReplyDeleteI believe that Chris Watts did think ahead to some degree.
He knew to call the school and give a bogus reason for the girls' non attendance. He made multiple staged texts and calls to SW's phone, anticipating that her phone records would be looked at by authorities (a trail of concerned messages and voicemails from him would serve to backup his BS story of “she took the kids to a friends place but didn’t tell me where”).
Even the night prior, with CW calling/texting co-worker Kodi, can be regarded as him thinking/planning ahead - his efforts were to ensure that he would be alone at Cervi-319 in the AM.
A little further back to 7 days prior, CW penned a note:
https://imgur.com/a/LkD72Mu
and left it with his parents.
The super solid and sophisticated statement:
“I would never hurt my wife or kids. If something happens to me, investigate my wife.”
Conveyed and inferred his concern for his safety and that of his kids in regards to SW.
It allegedly was written exactly a week before everyone in his entire immediate family ended up dead and dumped at his workplace , and he is the lone, unharmed, uninjured survivor. Thank goodness for that note though! /s
I just think he didn’t expect nor plan for a Monday midday exposé, and that he truly thought he would have much more time than the 6-7 hours from when he departed the house before the alarm was raised and serious concerns began circulating regarding the whereabouts of SW, Bella & Cece.
CW thought that cooperating with LE, plus his solid ‘good guy’ reputation with family/friends/co-workers, would see him ride smoothly through any contact with LE.
It’s not surprising - given he is someone that is, at the very least, socially withdrawn, odd and somewhat impaired - that he would underestimate the concerns and intelligence of others.
It’s not surprising - to the degree in which his reputation and projected image would shield him from the enquiring, thorough and extensive eyes of the law - that he would overestimate his intelligence and ability to deceive.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Chriswatts/comments/kor1wd/assume_chris_came_home_that_monday_and_no_cops/
THE RED CAR
ReplyDeleteThe guy drove in and parked, turned off his lights. There was definitely a car, that had drove in on that spot. Right when Nichole Kessinger comes out of the garage, right when Chris drives up, You can see a guy standing there on the side. This guy was staring at Nichole Kessinger, as she walked out. Chris flashes his truck lights at the guy, when he drives up, the guy gets in his car, and pulls out. Zav girl has the perfect video, she just put together, of the day after, when the cops were in Chris's house. Nichole Kessinger was driving around and the red car. Chris looks right out off the balcony at them, with popped eyes. That was the same red car in that video. They waited for Betty to leave, the morning of the murders. Betty said she didn't see Chris that night. She saw Chris the next morning, early in his driveway. Betty said she saw, NK's truck the morning of the murders, and that was it, for that morning. Great job with this video midnight. Also great job, with the video you gave Zav Girl. Midnight, it was so perfect, seeing the red car and Nichole Kessinger, driving in her grey truck, they were revisiting the crime scene, and that weird guy walking down the street with a shovel, that he most likely got from Chris property, this was going on, right smack, in front of the cops.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i553gwMEha8
DeleteLinda Jayne Clark wrote 1 year ago:
I don't need lines in the gravel. I saw the red car leave synchronized when CW turned on his headlights, leaving one minute after betty left for the gym. I believe Shannan's body was in that car...cadaver dog proves body on the gravel. Jim drives to Cervi 319 at 5:16. NK checks in with him at 6:16 to notify Chris is on the way with NK and live children. After... Jim drops NK at work late. She doesn't punch in.
What was CW plan if NA welfare check didn't happen, AD knows CW own words !
ReplyDeleteStephanie Weber
CW has been pointing at NK from the beginning, in a very CW fashion. No, he doesn't directly implicate her. In our years studying this guy, when has he ever been straight forward? By him saying repeatedly that he should have gone to the game that night, he's saying going to dinner with NK sealed the deal. That's the way he says things.
Why detectives didn't push him on what he meant by that, I don't know. I personally think the "using credit card" explanation is weak. Unless it was part of the plan to get SR on text knowing about the affair, so they could use it against her state of mind.
He said it had to do with his state of mind. That he was given 3 opportunities to stop the plan. He was too far gone to take any of them. He describes how being away from his family and practically living with NK affected his thinking. Also, about these 3 opportunities to stop the plan, the detectives didn't ask what the other 2 opportunities were. He only tells us about the invitation to the game.
Nicky E
He told the officers when they came to the house the second time, later on Monday 13th, that he went to Cervi over the weekend.
Vanessa O’Reilly
No body knows what happened to that fire stick. I think he put it into his tool box because he was insisting his parents go there and collect it.
Nancy Thunder
This is exactly what was happening. She didn’t care about him, part of a seduction to pull him in.
Tiffany Clark- Grove
Thats why she called Jim everytime after talking to Chris.
Shelly Thom
Ok I think it him, NK and leave him alone were gonna do the fire in a way that fire inspectors couldn’t find out how it started and Charlotte, NK's ‘drunk’ friend gave them the oxycodone because I think she’s got an addiction problem. I mean she spoke to the fbi and cbi drunk she said, slurring words. She wasn’t drunk, she was high. Her father died and he probably was on pain meds before dying. That’s my theory. Can’t wait to find out.....and Charlotte went back to the house OR that other brunette that NK spent time with that is friends with NK and leave him alone. It’s her or Charlotte. I don’t know what Charlotte looks like but I’m betting she had the oxy. There was NO oxy found at the house! And no dr will give out 80mg for what shanann had. Heck when u have a surgery they give you 5mg. 5mg!!!!!
Kiley Graham
Did you watch the Mabeline Rose video from 4 days ago - at 8:50 mins in, it shows two shadows at the same time - best I have ever seen it shown.
SaidIwould
They were planning their travels on the huge sympathy payoff from the publicity-nK planned all this for him
Stephanie Weber
Didn't you say one of CW number clues was 111? You mentioned Bible verse, but was he not referencing the phone call on Sunday night, 8/12, with NK?
MightyMan
The FIRE STICK could have been used to control the neighbors camera or his own security system. It can be used to control other WiFi devise systems. Remember CW question to Nate, WHAT kind of system is this? He was into this kind of stuff. Also, there was two , very long, calls to his security door bell system recently.
https://youtu.be/jnOHiHAWztk
Anne Hawkins wrote on youtube:
ReplyDeleteI swear to god n.k. said when they brought up jimbo...red Jim ... the officer said, Did Jim know about Chris, and she stops herself from nearly saying, Jim was not (involved) ... trails off for a nano second ... says, no he didn’t know anything about Chris ... but what she stops herself saying is, he was not INVOLVED ... I swear that’s what she was about say ... we know he was...
But do you see her train of thought, trying to lie ... to make out he wasn’t involved... and that’s what was in her mind ... and nearly came out of her mouth... if she had said that the officer would have directly said, involved in WHAT?
I swear it ... because that’s what my mind thought she was about to say just ... automatically... but the way she stopped herself in her tracks... changes her sentence mid stream ... he was not ... and then took a breath... and went on to change that flow of thought... he was... and changes course ... then says... noooo... Jim knew nothing about Chris. Llisten again ... she definitely changed course in mid sentence.
When did they discover they didn’t know s.r.'s pass code on her phone ... did they think, oh well, with plane delay they don’t abort the plans ... will still manage... we can still make it... makes me think... but didn’t realise, before the drugging, that they would have no phone.
They weren’t going to say, Shannan, we’re going to drug you, give us your phone ... oh, it’s not connected... give us your pass code before we drug you... No, if they had known this, they would have aborted the plans, knowing it couldn’t be done without it.
No, I think the drugging must already have been done , and then they found this out. But they were in it up to the necks and had to go on regardless ... is this when Chris lost it, with Bella running around the house, drugged up to the nines, tripping, acting like she was brain damaged... and Chris went for n.k. and grabbed her head, pulling the hair out of her.
He said to his dad... he says she (not shannan?) hurt them, and then I killed her (but we all know it was drugging then, in the house, no killing ... no cadaver alerted to death... he lied in every detail .... drive you mad in the head). He said to his dad, and I freaked out and I hurt her. And his dad then aksed, "Did they leave after that"?
It could be he hurt n.k. out of frustration.... maybe a bell went off in his head after the realisation their great plan, that n.k. came up with first ... I believe it was planted in his head many months slowly before, with n.k. telling him, I want to have a first with you ... I don’t want her having a boy for you ... grinding him down slowly but surely ... getting him to accept the big money to come idea.
CONTINUED BELOW...
I think Chris was a means to an end all along ... and Chris had a epiphany moment and caught on ... he was being played ... when the realisation came to him ... if all goes wrong here ... l'm going to be the fall guy. This plan ... NK really isn’t that smart ... and he was enlightened there for a moment ... he could be being played for a fool ... because if this goes wrong it’s my head they'll have ... and it will be mine alone ... and, really, you're not that clever n.k. ... why did I ever listen to you?
DeleteBut they just had to now plough ahead ... then he was travelling there with this realisation ... that’s when his thinking, how can I save me girls ... save them from who? Isn’t it just you, Chris, here doing all this?
He knew they had a gun ... n.k. and jimbo ... maybe they might use it on me now if I back out half way through ... they then will make it look like "family murder" and then I committed suicide ... if I can think of that so could have he, and so could have they ... and that there was no going back.
It’s all sick ... n.k. was never in love with him ... she could use her body to brainwash him ... and I believe he sussed that out. Wwhen this perfect plan (she laid the ideas in his head) went wrong, a light bulb went on in his head, and he knew there and then how evil she really was ... and he was played for fool ... and, yes, he should fear her now.
His pride may have stopped him then and his ego also ... but he’s had a long time now to think about it ... and her not communicating after he was arrested and locked up must have brought that home to him ... I bet your bottom dollar they, her and jimbo, could have gotten their share of the money ... and still shoot him to make it look like depression and suicide.
And n.k. and jimbo would have skipped off into the sunset ... and left it all behind ... how's that for well laid out, satanic, evil plans...
So the question is, When did they discover they were locked out of s.r.'s phone? Obviously, when it was too late ... because the phone was crucial to their explosion plan ... also, how would Shannan know which oil rig to go to ... have it out with Chris ... it needed to look like she was still in contact with Chris ... maybe ... and, also, it would have been while Chris was at work or why else would she go there?
All a bit precarious to say the least ... How would Chris know a coworker might not just show up while he was blowing it up? And definitely n.k. was involved. She was to drive s.r.'s car to the scrub, where Chris would have picked it up. And definitely Jim was there, to drive n.k. back to Chris’s house, to her truck and her get away ... and clock into work and practically clock out again.
Even with the phone ... that was a hell of a feat they were going to pull off... there was sure a lot of cracks that could have happened in their plotting. We all know now it wasn’t infallible ... it fell apart the minute they knew, after drugging the whole family that morning, that they couldn't get into s.r.'S phone. But, even with no plane delay and phone, that was some ruse they thought they would pull off.... even if everything went to plan ... a lot of luck would have had to be in play.
https://youtu.be/jnOHiHAWztk
Clumps of hair missing from Nichol Kessinger's head:
Deletehttps://youtu.be/eZTirMcDeQQ
Weekday Phone Data Analysis
ReplyDeleteDate | Time | NK Location (+Caller/Call Direction)
Jul 16 MON | 5:01 AM | Thornton, CO (CW>NK)
Jul 17 TUE | 5:01 AM | Thornton, CO (CW>NK)
Jul 17 TUE | 6:20 AM | Longmont, CO (NK>LJA)
Jul 18 WED | 5:15 AM | Thornton, CO (CW>NK)
Jul 18 WED | 5:30 AM |Thornton, CO (CW>NK)
Jul 18 WED | 5:50 AM | Thornton, CO (CW>NK)
Jul 18 WED | 7:50 AM | Platteville, CO (UNK>NK)
Jul 19 THU| 5:16 AM | Thornton, CO (CW >NK)
Jul 19 THU | 5:30 AM | Thornton, CO (CW>NK)
Jul 19 THU | 6:20 AM | Broomfield, CO (NK>LJA)
Jul 20 FRI | 5:15 AM | Thornton, CO (CW>NK)
Jul 20 FRI | 8:07 AM | Longmont, CO (UNK>NK)
Jul 20 FRI | 9:20 AM | Longmont, CO (UNK>NK)
Jul 20 FRI | 9:25 AM |Longmont, CO (NK>UNK)
Jul 23 MON | 5:15 AM | Thornton, CO (CW>NK)
Jul 23 MON | 5:30 AM | Thornton, CO (CW>NK)
Jul 23 MON | 6:22 AM | Northglenn, CO (NK> LJA)
Jul 23 MON | 7:00 AM | Broomfield, CO (LJA >NK)
Jul 24 TUE | 5:15 AM | Thornton, CO (CW>NK)
Jul 24 TUE | 5:29 AM | Thornton, CO (CW>NK)
Jul 25 WED | 5:30 AM | Thornton, CO (CW>NK)
Jul 26 THU | 5:30 AM | Thornton, CO (CW>NK)
Jul 26 THU | 8:46 AM | Gilcrest, CO (NK>UNK)
Jul 26 THU| 8:46 AM | Gilcrest, CO (NK>UNK)
Jul 26 THU| 8:49 AM | Gilcrest, CO (NK>UNK)
Jul 26 THU | 9:08 AM | Gilcrest, CO (NK>LJA)
Jul 26 THU | 9:40 AM | Johnstown, CO (NK>UNK)
Jul 27 FRI | No AM calls to/from NK this day
Jul 30 MON | 5:30 AM | Thornton, CO (CW>NK)
Jul 30 MON | 6:19 AM | Broomfield, CO (NK>UNK)
Jul 31 TUE | 4:58 AM | Thornton, CO (CW>NK) CW leaves early AM for NC this day
Jul 31 TUE | 8:22 AM | Fort Lupton, CO (NK>LJA)
Jul 31 TUE | 8:22 AM | Fort Lupton, CO (LJA>NK)
Jul 31 TUE | 8:48 AM | Fort Lupton, CO (LJA>NK)
Jul 31 TUE | 8:53 AM | Fort Lupton, CO (LJA>NK)
Jul 31 TUE | 8:57 AM | Fort Lupton, CO (UNK>NK)
Jul 31 TUE | 9:02 AM | Fort Lupton, CO (NK>LJA)
Jul 31 TUE | 9:20 AM | Fort Lupton, CO (NK>UNK)
Aug 1 WED | 6:26 AM | Thornton, CO (NK>NK Mom)
Aug 1 WED | 6:31 AM |Broomfield, CO (NK Mom > NK)
Aug 1 WED | 7:00 AM | Fort Lupton, CO (NK>UNK)
Aug 1 WED | 7:02 AM | Fort Lupton, CO (LJA>NK VM)
Aug 1 WED | 7:03 AM | Fort Lupton, CO (LJA>NK)
Aug 1 WED | 8:28 AM | Fort Lupton, CO (NK>LJA)
Aug 1 WED | 8:56 AM | Fort Lupton, CO (LJA>NK)
Aug 1 WED | 10:03 AM | Platteville, CO (LJA>NK)
Aug 1 WED | 10:59 AM | Platteville, CO (NK>UNK)
Aug 2 THU | No AM calls to/from NK this day
Aug 3 FRI | 7:50 AM | Platteville, CO (NK>UNK)
Aug 6 MON | No AM calls to/from NK this day
Aug 7 TUE| No AM calls to/from NK this day (CW arrives back from NC late this day)
Aug 8 WED| No AM calls to/from NK this day (CW back to work this day)
Aug 9 THU | 7:41 AM | Platteville, CO (UNK>NK)
Aug 10 FRI | 9:05 AM | Platteville, CO (NK>UNK) (SW in Arizona - no calls to/from CW this day)
Aug 13 MON | 6:16 AM | Frederick, CO (NK>LJA) (Murders occur this day)
Key
UNK = Unknown caller
LJA = NK friend Jim (Leave Jim Alone)
Source Data: NK Verizon Phone Bill, research by Midnight Murder Mysteriologist
Other Analysis Notes + Assumptions:
Thornton/Northglenn is where her home phone calls show up, so when we see that, I am assuming she's at or close to home.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WattsCaseEvidence/comments/kqp9ao/nks_weekday_morning_phone_calls_location_analysis/
Platteville was NK work location (Anadarko HQ), so when we see that, I'm assuming she's at work. Also, Anadarko had a gas plant in Ft Lupton, CO, so when we see that, I'm assuming she's at work as well.
DeleteI also believe that NK's gym was 24 Hour Fitness in Broomfield based on its proximity to her apartment address (just across the freeway from her apt), so when I see that location in the AM, I'm thinking she is at the gym.
Here is a map of locations you see in the phone data in case it helps. 501 Division Blvd at the top right is Anadarko in Platteville where NK worked with CW. This map shows the routes she could take to work from her apartment. As you can see, the blue route in Map B would be faster if she were going to work from the gym, which I suspect she did many mornings. Map A shows the fastest route from her apartment to work and vice versa, but I believe she only took this route on the way home in the afternoon (I need more analysis to show that though).
Silverpixelmate
Not to discredit the work you have done but until the detectives do their job and actually analyze the data, her phone ping will never be acceptable. There is absolutely no acceptable reason they didn’t do the most basic part of their job.
atschock
I agree with you completely. What I have here is pretty speculative and can really only be backed up with answers that are nowhere in what has been released to the public. I was really just trying to see if there could be a way the ping could be explained in any way by the very little data we do have because it just bugged me so much that it seemed so anomalous and yet we have no formal explanation for it in the discovery files.
VivecaStandsStrong
Nope, I'm not buying the "she went to the gym in the morning and so took the Frederick route to work" rationale.
This is not a valid reason for explaining her ping in Frederick that morning since I am NOT seeing other instances of her pinging in Frederick during her morning commute on this phone bill.
When you combine her Murder Monday ping in Frederick (the crime scene, for god sakes!) with the fact that there was no record of a clock-in time for her at Anadarko that morning...
I'd say that makes her whereabouts the morning of 8/13/18 extremely suspicious.
shadowbloom844
This is a great analysis. However, according to NK in one of her interviews, the last day she went to the gym was on Sunday, August 12th while her family was having brunch. She said she did “core day.”
lastseenhitchhiking
The ping at the Frederick tower was an aberrancy from her usual phone patterns and had only previously occurred when she was known to be near or at the Watts' home.
It doesn't prove that she had involvement in Watts' crime, but imo nor can it be simply explained away as a coincidence.
Starkville
It’s pretty clear to me she was near the house, if not actually at it. I’m not saying she killed anyone or was at the scene.
But she broke her usual pattern at the absolute critical time in the Watts murders’ timeline.
We can’t just ignore it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WattsCaseEvidence/comments/kqp9ao/nks_weekday_morning_phone_calls_location_analysis/
shattered_illusions wrote on reddit:
ReplyDeleteBella, not CeCe, had the additional injuries to her body. (Discovery page 1020, PDF page 908.) These injuries included: vertical excoriations on her left buttocks, lacerations and contusions on the upper part of her mouth (indicating that these were inflicted while she was still alive, most likely at the moment of being smothered), bite wounds on her tongue, abrasion on her left torso, and a discoloration on her left shoulder.
The scrapes on her left buttocks and the shoulder bruise(?) could have been from him forcing her body through a very tight opening. But the coroner said that most of her injuries would have been acquired while she was alive. And the injuries to her mouth and tongue are consistent with struggling while being smothered. Meaning she tried to fight for her life.
As for CeCe, there were no additional injuries found on her. So CeCe was likely killed in her sleep. And it seems he had very little problem with fitting her into the tank. The only problem he seems to have had with CeCe was some of her hair being caught and ripped out at the mouth of the hatch.
It is very unlikely that he killed them ahead of time. There are several reasons why I think this. But one of the main reasons is the lack of indications from the cadaver dogs. If he killed them in the house and left their bodies there for several hours, at least one of the dogs would have picked up on it. But I am not 100% sure on this. He cleaned everything with a lot of bleach. And if he killed them only an hour in advance, maybe that's plausible.
We can discuss theories on this, if you like. I am not sure of much when it comes to the children, and I go back and forth a lot on what theory/version of the story I believe. I definitely don't believe the "confessions" in Cadle's books. There is a lot of evidence against her versions of the events. But I am free to speculation otherwise.
Also, I will fully admit that it is unknown how being in an oil tank for several days could have obfuscated any additional evidence.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WattsCaseEvidence/comments/klwakw/question_regarding_dog_hit_on_scent_at_house_and/
Maggie G. wrote:
ReplyDeleteDamn it! I missed your live again! 🙄.... So glad I can at least watch the replay! 👍🏻
I have a comment about the wasp on the bed. I think Larry was right to question it... and as I was listening, I was thinking about NK being into her crystals, geology, the earth, etc., etc. - so I Googled: ‘What’s the meaning of a dead wasp?’
This is what it says:
SPIRITUAL MEANING AND SYMBOLISM OF A WASP
Seeing a wasp is a sign that everything happens for a reason and that this will help you to get to your goals faster. Some cultures believe a wasp is the symbol of control over your life circumstances and signifies evolution, progress, development, and order.
Sep 24, 2020
This makes me wonder if the dead wasp was physically PLACED THERE on the bed by “someone (a-hem 🙄)”... for CW to discover and embrace the idea that he was doing the right thing (gag) and to remind him not to ‘crack’ when being interrogated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ4Qmm7ERuI
coolgirlrocks wrote on January 2, 2019:
ReplyDeleteI have viewed several of the videos (there are just too many of them to watch them all) and several struck me.
Probably the one that upset me the most was the “Vision Board” one. Poor Bella, who was maybe three at the time, had no interest, no concept, of what her mother was trying to force her to do there. She was making her repeat all these phrases and words which meant NOTHING to Bella “You are loved. Say it. Bella! Say it! “I am loved?” Yes, now “You are smart. SAY IT!! And on and on. Poor Bella just wanted to scribble on the bristol board. Far too young for this stupid exercise, which was clearly only a way to promote the MLM and fake fantasy fairy tale to other vulnerable young women. The house, the clothes, the cleanliness, even the children, all seemed to me to be a desperate attempt to promote this Thrive product. .
I believe Shan’ann however really was a vulnerable soul who allowed an MLM company to brainwash her this way. And that is one of the true lessons of this tragedy Facebook is now full of these women – Reddit calls them “Huns” – who drink the Kool Aid and truly believe in this bullshit. Shan’ann was bullied in school, so her self esteem would have been demolished, and her whole Thrive narrative fits exactly the narrative that ALL of these MLMs promote.
Yes, she was exploiting her children. Yes, she was placing them second, behind this Thrive bullshit. But she was doing that because she herself was a lost soul, I believe.
Why are they called huns.
https://www.reddit.com/r/antiMLM
I think it is a play on Attila the Hun and also that they are all young women.
The thread is fascinating itself in that it shows just how these MLM companies are using the psychology to prey on many more Shan’anns.
Hunbots = MLM-ers are called hunbots because many use ‘hun’ to address their targets/fellow MLM-ers when using FB messages. They also follow scripts for their recruiting/selling messages; that is where the “bot” comes in.
An interesting blog to learn more about MLM’s is http://www.ellebeaublog.com.
Elle Beau was recruited for Younique and she tells in several episodes about how that went and how she got out. On her blog is also a link to the anti-MLM coalition. Very interesting if you want to know more about this subject!
https://www.crimerocket.com/2018/10/10/how-happy-were-celeste-and-bella/
Ralph Oscar wrote on February 4, 2019:
DeleteIn regular terms, “Hon” is the contraction, yes. Within the MLM context, the convention has become “Hun” because they don’t ever say “Honey” to each other, they say, “Hun,” even when there is not an established-enough relationship for this sort of intimacy. As in “Are you ready to order the new $90 Lash Booster, hun?” and “Hey, hun, haven’t seen you since high school. Want to start selling for Thrive?”
It’s a term of affection that, in the MLM context, is false and manipulative – trying to give the impression there is caring with regard to the targets, when actually it’s all to get them to do what they want them to.
So “Hun” has taken on a definition specific to the MLM community, and I frankly love the similarity to “Attila the Hun”. Because these “Huns” are known for steamrolling over everyone and bulldozing their way toward getting what they want.
Ralph Oscar wrote on February 4, 2019:
DeleteI was thinking about all the MLM scams Shan’Ann has been involved in – I wanted to do a quick analysis:
1) Amway – cleaning products
2) Origami Owl – custom jewelry kits
3) Thirty One – fashion totes, handbags, home decor
4) LulaRoe – leggings and clothing
5) Younique – makeup
6) It Works – “wraps” for slimming, diet products, “healthful living” focus
7) Le-Vel Thrive – patches, diet products, “healthful living” focus
I don’t know what order these came in, except that Amway was first and Thrive was last. But notice there’s only one repeat – It Works and Thrive (I put these two together because they’re similar). I believe Shan’Ann was involved in LulaRoe and Younique at the same time – in one of her makeup tutorials for Younique, she draws attention to her LulaRoe leggings that she’s wearing (and how “fun” they are).
So here is my question for today: Clearly, Shan’Ann tried and then abandoned six other mlm scams. If any of them had met her expectations, she would have continued with them, wouldn’t she? So she has 6 MLM fails under her belt before she starts up with Thrive. Why didn’t she learn from the previous 6 failures?
And why did she choose *another* mlm (Thrive) that was so similar to one she’d already discarded (It Works)? Was she incapable of learning from her mistakes?
This is why I describe her as an “mlm addict”. And no addiction is healthy.
VivecaStandsStrong
ReplyDeleteSilverpixelmate, I've also always thought it was telling that CW used the phrase, "couldn't I have saved their lives?" It implies someone else may have actually performed the deed but he did not intervene.
It has made me consider the possibility that someone else (and we all know who) may have actually carried out the smothering of at least one of the girls.
My thoughts go to Bella. A rock (perhaps a crystal?) and book were found under her bed by LE. Doesn't prove anything, but still interesting considering what we know of NK.
Whoever smothered Bella did a piss poor job of it and didn't have the strength of a man, since Bella was able to fight like hell before succumbing and had the defensive wounds to prove it.
Obviously what I'm saying above relies on my belief that the girls were killed in the house. I do not believe CW's story about killing them at the cervi. That story is ridiculous imo.
Silverpixelmate
I’ve pretty much resolved for myself that NK wasn’t involved. For a variety of different reasons. And I’ve mostly let it go. But there are still things that bother me like the things you have said. And the ping.
But also his exclaiming “why was she even there” or something similar. Then his confidence to police when they ask him if the autopsy will prove that his hands weren’t on the kids necks. (When he was maintains it was sw that killed them) Then cadles “book” where he makes a point of saying “I used the pillow to smother them. That’s why the autopsy says smothering”. Almost as if he had no idea how they died. Another example of this is his second confession where he can’t remember if he had their blankets when they left the house. Then when he’s “remembering” how he killed them at cervi, now suddenly it’s “oh yeah, they did have the blankets because I put it over her head”.
All this coupled with the frequent story changes...why all that? Why not just the beginning lie that you didn’t kill them? You either stick to that lie or you finally admit it. He’s done neither. Which just makes me feel he is hiding something.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WattsCaseEvidence/comments/l0422s/but_she_was_face_down/
WaimeaBay wrote:
DeleteDid a female have her hands on both Shan’ann and Bella on the night/morning they were murdered? The evidence seems to indicate that.
See MIA’s September 23rd video on Chris Watts and the Memphis Three which explains about the autopsy report indicating a female had her hands on Shan’ann’s neck sometime during the time Shan’ann was killed.
We know from the autopsy report that there was a 1 centimeter bruise on Shan’ann’s neck which is consistent with a female’s finger breadth.
I thinks it’s highly probable that this same female had her hands on Bella at some point during Bella’s smothering or perhaps when she went into the tank.
The reason I believe this is that during the Wisconsin interview, when Coder, Lee and Baumhover were questioning CW on how Bella’s frenulum got so damaged, CW was getting flustered and not following what they were trying to describe. He finally said “I don’t know, maybe HER hand.......”
ETA: Also, CW was never able to answer or convincingly explain how Bella was killed and his explanation of how he killed Shan’ann (by sitting atop her 4 month pregnant belly) is not even remotely believable.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Chriswatts/comments/izvhhs/did_a_female_have_her_hands_on_both_shanann_and/
VivecaStandsStrong
ReplyDeleteYes, that may have very well been the original plan before it was foiled by Shanann's flight delay and NA raising the alarms early that day.
I believe any type of outrageous, megalomaniacal plan originated with someone other than CW. Even if an explosion wasn't part of the original plan. Any plan is unlikely to have originated with CW. I'm not trying to take away guilt from CW one bit. But it's not in his personality make-up to scheme and have devised what likely began as an elaborate (although majorly faulty) plan.
CW is nothing but a dimly lit mindless follower void of deep and genuine emotions or empathy. He's a pathetic, spineless monster who was fine with carrying out horrific orders, but a scheming, conniving planner he is not.
That doesn't make him any less evil, but he just doesn't have the skill-set (if you can call it that) to develop any semblance of a master plan for anything by himself. He's a sick pos competent at completing tasks based upon pre-established instructions and that's it. CW is a very limited person, I think. Always has been.
That kind of grand scheme of a plan (however flawed it was) more likely was conjured up by one or more other sociopathic individuals (NK and JG come to mind.) They seem like the absurdly overconfident types, due to their probable psychotic and narcissistic natures. And with a whole heap of delusions of grandeur thrown in for good measure.
But just because a psycho or two are capable of initiating a depraved, inhumane, murderous plot does not equate to rational high intelligence. Quite the opposite. Their illogical overconfidence in their abilities, schemes, etc. has the potential to doom even their best efforts.
They don't think enough about the "what-ifs" and set up contingency plans for variables. Instead, they are overly optimistic and assume everything will go to plan because they possess an irrational deep-seated belief that they are smarter than everyone else.
That is why on the surface the murders and cover-up appeared so sloppy and haphazard. Because contingency plans were basically non-existent it seemed.
They never considered that something could go wrong, such as a flight delay or a changed phone passcode. Additionally, I bet NK was smugly reliant on that fun fact she relayed to LE: "They never found that woman that went missing a few months ago from Longmont." I'm sure those sicko nutbags were running high on adrenaline, assuming their plan was pretty much foolproof.
Also, it seems Miss NK had it stuck in her head that no alarms would be sounded as to Shanann being missing until a minimum of 24 hours had passed. Plenty of time to get rid of the car, Shanann's purse, sandals, meds, etc. Stupid ho was relying on information she obtained from movies, it seems.
Well, NA sure threw a monkey wrench in that simplistic assumption!!!
Routine_Common_1511
DeleteRight on! Very well written. I do think that NK and her friend, Jim, were involved in the plot as well as the murders. Call it a gut feeling, but so much circumstantial evidence points to that conclusion in my mind. I don’t know much about the FM organization either, but NK’s father may have been a “mastermind” in all of this as well. His Facebook page had a picture of a meter behind his profile picture with the name “Watts” written across it at the time of the murders. It has since been removed. They call it “organized crime”. You have the Mafia. You have the Cartel. You have all kinds of gangs. Chris got involved with the wrong “gang” and wanted to be seen as a powerful, cool, tough guy in their eyes. Before he knew it, he was in way over his head. He has no one to blame but himself even though he still tries to shift it elsewhere (like onto his wife). He could have said,”No” and walked away when he had the chance. He said he regretted going on his date at the “Lazy Dog” with NK, instead of going to the game with another coworker. He said things would have been different had he not gone when he still had time to back out. Unfortunately, he made a poor decision and it became his “point of no return.” He said the night before the murders he knew it would be the last night he’d tuck his girls in bed... it obviously was totally planned imo and his accomplices should be arrested too.
lumalisa
Don't forget, she habitually called Leave-Him-Alone Jim after talking to CW. I thnk we know who's plan it was.
VivecaStandsStrong
And her infamous murder monday 6:16 am Frederick phone ping was her making a quick check-in call to JG about something (it was listed as 1-minute on her bill.) So that means anything less than 1-minute (she probably left a quick voice-mail about something.)
VivecaStandsStrong
Okay, so implying JG has a psychotic nature was a bit strong on my part. 😁 I admit I went too far. Guilty as charged. But let's just say I have a very strong intuition that JG is not your upstanding citizen type. It's only my opinion based upon the following:
I read his public facebook profile page, comments, and entries back in early 2019. He came off like an obnoxious, pompous try-hard. A guy projecting that he thought highly of himself, when actually his lame attempt at boastful humor made him appear like a doofus that likely never had a date in high school. Major cringe factor reading his musings (I was embarrassed for him actually.)
The very fact that his bff is a person such as NK speaks to the sort of individual he is, including what his values likely are, imo. Birds of a feather and such. Btw, my opinion of NK's cold, devious (and imo, evil) nature has nothing to do with the affair itself.
Most significantly, a person who went to high school with JG in WI spoke about him on reddit about a year or so ago.
They described him as sort of a loser unpopular type that desperately sought acceptance from the cool-kid athletes but was never allowed into their clique. He would pull outrageous comical stunts and practical jokes on students and teachers to gain attention and in an attempt to be seen as wild and hilarious by his peers.
Disturbingly, the person went on to explain that he eventually gained a reputation in his senior year as being into "some bad stuff" and "going down a dangerous path." Basically, he was looked upon as being a sort of creepy freak up to no good.
The redditor refused to elaborate when questioned for details. Still, from what they did share, I found their low opinion of JG to be compelling (although it is a far cry from "psychotic.") I shouldn't have said that. I'll check myself on that hyperbole 😉.
And yet, somehow I still can't help but think I'm correct in my assumption that he is a nefarious character.
kpiece
DeleteI definitely think NK was involved. And i’ve always thought that the theory that he was planning on causing an explosion is very much a possibility. He must have had more of a plan to finish dealing with the bodies, than just the sloppy job he did. I mean, he couldn’t possibly have been planning to leave Shanann in an obvious freshly-dug shallow grave in the ground right at his worksite where GPS would show he had been that morning. Nobody is that inept & stupid, when it’s a matter of not getting caught or getting caught & spending life in prison! He must have planned to return and finish disposing of/hiding/destroying Shanann’s body in some way, and i do think he might’ve been planning to cause an explosion, to completely destroy all 3 bodies.
Routine_Common_1511
Yes, it was a MIRACLE he got caught so soon. That was NOT part of the plan. The site was in the middle of nowhere. Who would go out there besides him? In his mind, no one was supposed to be noticed missing. He would return later and “properly” dispose of Shanann’s body (most likely, cut her up and put her in the oil tank as well). When he finally would report them missing (days later), who would ever have thought to look in the oil tanks for any bodies? His GPS would have shown he went to work that day as scheduled. The girls were immediately unenrolled from school, so there’d be no suspicion from anyone there when they didn’t show up. He could have pretended he was Shanann for awhile by returning text messages and saying she was sick in bed and couldn’t talk to anyone. He could have carried out his plan had he had just a little more time. He would have been the poor grieving widower entitled to a huge financial compensation for his losses after it was discovered “they got killed in an explosion” either at his house or the oil site while he was at work. He wouldn’t be the first criminal in history to stage a crime for financial gain... nor is he the first family annihilator... although he’s probably the most famous one right now.
thehottubistoohawt
Pretending to be Shannan even for a little while would have never worked. She loved making her Facebook lives and telling people all about her feels.
Routine_Common_1511
Didn’t say he was the brightest criminal ever. He could have gotten away with it for a day though. He supposedly posted for her before when she had her neck surgery. He could have come up with a good lie as to why she couldn’t do a live. He could have said she was really exhausted from her trip and her flight being late... and on top of it she had morning sickness really bad, needed to be left alone and wouldn’t be doing a live that day. People would have understood.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WattsCaseEvidence/comments/lbon41/what_ever_happened_to_the_gas_can/
Photo comparison on security footage
ReplyDeleteI know this footage has been gone over but I wanted to put up a side by side screenshot comparison from the oxygen footage and get people’s thoughts as I haven’t seen a side by side comparison of these clearly two different people.
Going through the oxygen footage of the security cam the morning of the murders (remember NK’s phone pinged in the area that morning).
I also want to point out that in one of the interrogations with Chris the officer asks him about the fact his security system sent him an alert of the basement door inside the house opening when he had already left the house and he simply didn’t respond to that statement.
I’m convinced these screen shots I took as a comparison show two different people. One with skinny jeans that are a darker colour and knee high dark boots, another with baggy jeans and white sneakers and a much larger body frame.
Sorry if this posting format isn’t great I’m new to reddit and still trying to figure out how to post an image directly here
http://imgur.com/gallery/f2JKOGt
The oxygen footage is the clearest of the security footage I’ve found and where I took these screen shots , these shots I’ve taken I’ve zoomed in on so look at the footage yourself for clearer video imagery. https://youtu.be/QQ9K3Yg9k-0
http://imgur.com/gallery/pnHnPNF She wasn’t THAT much shorter than him not to mention those boots look like they have a thick sole, the person in the first frame is significantly more slender build than the second especially in the thighs. Not to mention NK’s phone pinged in the area that morning as well as the fact the police mentioned to Chris his security alarm alerted him the basement door inside the house opened after Chris had left with the bodies.
both are wearing a long black shirt, not a hoodie (no hood nor the bulk of a hoodie). Two people are capable of wearing a black shirt. The jeans are drastically different, one are skin tight jeans of a darker colour the other light blue jeans that are baggy. One has distinct knee high black boots, the other has white sneakers, I’ve shown a shot where they’ve moved their foot to show the distinction. The build of the body frame is significantly bulkier and larger in clearly Chris in the second and third photo to the very thin frame in the first photo. I also wouldn’t say anything is masculine or femanine about the gait just a standard person walking.
Then why does he distinctively have white sneakers in the next shot as well as the fact his jeans are then a lighter colour and baggy around the thigh? Not to mention the body frame size being drastically different from thin frame to large bulky.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Chriswatts/comments/k5j1h7/photo_comparison_on_security_footage/
Comments from youtube:
ReplyDeleteIf she had ever had a chance to see her husband in a more accurate, less favourable light, she'd have despised him, rejected him, and run rings around him in the ensuing divorce. Finding out about his affair was her best chance of seeing the light and winning her freedom from the marriage - and that's why sly Chris Watts made sure she never did. He kept her in the dark about his infidelity to keep her exactly where he wanted her - confused, insecure and vulnerable, so he could kill her and the children with ease.
He didn't want a divorce. He knew damn fine Shanann was way smarter than him and would secure proper spousal support for herself and the kids, plus she would publicly remove his fake 'nice guy' mask and make sure their friends and family knew what a lying, cheating scumbag he really was. He wasn't going to let that happen. He killed her to save money and save face.
Him trying to abort his only son is something only a monster does. He literally blames Shanann for being bossy but yet was a puppet for NK.
I think the girls were already dead and put on the bed in the basement and when Shannan came in he called her down to the basement and strangled her from behind which is why the dogs hit so much on that area and really nowhere else in the house because three dead bodies have been in that basement.
I do not believe she threatened to withhold access. I do believe his parents told Chris that she would ruin him in a divorce. I believe that his parents were pathologically hateful toward Shanann and that fueled his psychopathic murder spree.
The Netgear Router appears to have been located in the basement of the Watts home, right beside the staircase [coming down, on the left side]. You can view Officer Coonrod’s first view of the router from 21:50 onwards at this link. Bear in mind the first area Watts entered, after leading Atkinson, her son and Officer Coonrod into the kitchen, was the basement. When he made this trip it was [I believe] to let Deeter out, but he may also have turned the router on if it was off. If so, it would have taken a few minutes to boot up.
ReplyDeleteIf Watts did turn on the router, the phone review did not pick up any connection by Watts phone [or Shan’ann’s phone] to the router that afternoon.
From a cursory glance at the router in the relatively dark basement on August 13, roughly 3 minutes after Coonrod accesses the house for the first time, the router appears to be off. When you leave home, do you turn your router off? Most [I’d hazard a guess] do not.
When Shan’ann arrived home on the morning of her murder, her phone didn’t connect to the router, yet it automatically connected to the Wifi at the airport at 00:51. The same applies to Watts: when he returned home at 14:07, his phone – apparently – did not automatically connect to the router.
It would make sense, if Shan’ann’s phone did automatically connect to the router, to erase that data from the router. He would want to and need to do that in order to conceal the fact that Shan’ann’s phone had [or hadn’t] left the building.
After murdering Shan’ann, Watts probably turned off her phone, and the router back on [temporarily]. This would have theoretically also allowed the Vivint security system to come back online, perhaps in terms of sending alerts to his phone.
It’s also possible that on the night of August 14th, Watts removed a pile of digital breadcrumbs that would have helped trace his and Shan’ann’s movement, including the router data. What the router data points towards is the sheer scale of Watts’ cover-up, as well as his premeditation.
https://www.crimerocket.com/2019/01/14/sinister-signals-from-the-router-in-the-watts-family-murders-and-what-it-might-mean/
Ralph Oscar
January 14, 2019 at 5:38 pm
Fascinating. Question: Would the router be connected to the home’s security system? In particular, I’m wondering if turning off the router would account for the security cameras not picking up any movement after Shanann got home. If CW had been lurking in the basement waiting for her, he could have turned it off as soon as he heard her get home.
nickvdl (Post author)
January 14, 2019 at 8:05 pm
Any electronic surveillance system turned off [power supply turned off] will not work. It seems to make sense, if you have a system like that in your home, and under your control, that you’d turn it off when it suited you. It would be good to get logs from Vivint that might show if the system was powered off, assuming logs exist similar to the router logs.
thetinytech2018
DeleteIf Shanann's phone didn’t connect to the Wi-Fi when she got home, it could be that her phone was still on airplane mode from the flight, which allows the phone to be on but no packets will be sent or received and no data transmissions will take place. If her phone was on with WiFi enabled, then Chris could’ve changed the login password or disabled the modem from broadcasting a signal all together by manually doing so or just unplugging the modem. If his phone wasn’t connected either, I’d say that the Wifi was turned off. No devices could connect, the cameras would go down on the Vivint System but the core of the system, the door alarms and such would still be active if, for instance, the security system was set to “armed away” where it engages all the motion detectors and magnetic connections on doors and windows, and someone broke in. If the system was set to “stay” then all the motion detectors and magnetic connections on the doors and windows wouldn’t be engaged, that’s usually the mode you leave the security system in when you’re home.
I’d be interested to see the router logs from that night, because I’ve long suspected he either pulled the power cord out on the router in the basement, perhaps when he went and put dieter down there so he wouldn’t bark. I believe if there is any doubt to this murder being premeditated, that would pretty much eliminate any reasonable doubt someone had remaining. The router would log such an event, and they could’ve very well asked Chris at some point “If this was all something that happened spur of the moment, why does the router show it was manually disconnected from the network at 1:30am, then bring back up by someone in the home around 4am”? That would be pretty damning to his case, no?
atschmid5322
January 15, 2019 at 5:21 pm
She texted Cassie AFTER she got off the plane.
Maura
January 14, 2019 at 6:39 pm
Interesting. Chris is tech savvy. As part of his premeditation he may have tested turning off the Vivint security system and moving around downstairs. Also tested using his phone and turning off the Wifi and checking what data was on the reports. He had time while his family was in NC.
Sylvester
January 14, 2019 at 8:16 pm
Watts had called Vivint Security several times in the days leading up to the murders. Might he have needed tutorials? He told Sha’nann the system wasn’t working properly but he thought it was all set after he spent time with them getting it right. I’m sure he knew how to shut everything down as after the Vivint video monitor captured SW walking up to the home and enter at precisely 0148, there was no movement detection on the main floor of the home from 0148 – 0423. page 2119 of discovery.
On 7/20/18 he also researched toyapagroup.picaboo. A bit hard to understand their site, but it seems that one can organize or hide snapchat information. That site also led me to Griffeye Technologies, which can be used by law enforcement in media investigation, analyze “VICS” hash records determine relationships and share it. So I at first thought law enforcement used toyapagroup.picaboo to investigate Chris’s snapchat and picture content, but from the documents p.2088, Chris visited the site. Might mean nothing, might mean something. He sure as hell has deleted a fount of information.
There is no doubt he was tech saavy. “Rain Man” they called him at work. Yes, this was pre meditation on a grand (and covert, quiet, introverted) scale CBH. He was no dummy. Socially awkward should not be equated with a lack of intelligence. In fact it’s the ones who talk less and listen more who learn more.
Sylvester
DeleteJanuary 15, 2019 at 10:01 pm
So tinytech, what are the many possibilities for “unspecified activity” in the Watts home router at 2:18 a.m. – a full 30 minutes after the time Sha’nann entered the door?
Also does anyone want to venture a guess as to why at 1045 military time, Watts looked up Mt. Colima, a volcano – then at 1656 he did another volcano search – Paricutin. I don’t take him for a reader, so why the interest in active volcanoes? Was he thinking to himself “I’m gonna blow”? Or were they two items on his bucket list to take Nichole Kessinger to see – like Travis Alexander’s 100 places he was going to go see (and take Arias, or so she hoped)? Intertextuality.
2:18 AM - The home router logs an unspecified activity in Chris' phone.
https://youtu.be/-q-iExqVDvc
Charles Edison
January 27, 2019 at 5:57 pm
Would the 2:18 actually be 4:18am with the time zone change? That fits in with the first motion sensor which would explain him going to basement to turn in off
Carrie
February 12, 2019 at 1:44 am
Log entry on Watts phone. WiFi and Wan out at 2:18am. Vivant does use WiFi, but it doesn’t need to. I think that’s for home records, only.
REPLY
John Martinsen
September 14, 2019 at 6:05 pm
I’ve got some more info from the router. CW . First of all, it’s 2 hour “late” so you need to add 2 hours on all timestamps: https://imgur.com/VS0YtGY. If we look at the log from 6.20 pm the 14th to 8.22 am the 15th, there are many devices who connects to the router, including both of CW’s Iphones, a HP laptop, Ipad/Mac. Cw was sleeping over at his friends that night, so how is this possible? Check this: https://imgur.com/yqchr3Q https://imgur.com/CAocv6m and especially this: https://imgur.com/CAocv6m His Iphones connected at 4.30 am and 6.20 am ?? According to this, CW gave permission the evening before, so he knew they were coming the next morning. The police responded 6 am, and on arrival they had to call CW for the access code. They were inside around 7.15 am. They started taking photos immediately and this is the first photo taken: https://imgur.com/F3WKNai Did he sneak in and connect his phones, laptop, Shanann’s Ipad (or Mac) to tamper with Vivint? And then sync them to Vivint server? Not realizing the router logged every device he turned on? It looks fishy anyway… He shouldn’t have been there that night. If this is correct, the FBI would know of course. Which again means this would be part of the documents held back (in case of a trail). I seriously doubt he sneaked in to water the plants….Ps: The Amazon entry plus a couple of others are most likely either associated with the router or cable tv subscriptions.
https://www.crimerocket.com/2019/01/14/sinister-signals-from-the-router-in-the-watts-family-murders-and-what-it-might-mean/
During the 111-minute call, at about 30 minutes before the call ends, Chris leaves his house and disconnects from wifi. Perhaps he went outside to meet JG and NK then brought them in at the end of the call where Vivint alerts and he reconnects to wifi. That's when I think they came to the house. CW seems to much of a coward to me to carry through and I agree he may have freaked out and wanted to pull out so NK and JG have to show up. Notice Ronnie asking CW in the confession "Is that when they left?" I'm still not convinced the kids were killed yet. I think they were probably collateral to make sure he carries through with the plan. It would seem easy for NK to convince him to get rid of his wife after planting seeds of how horrible she is. But his children? That's a whole other level. I still find it hard to believe that CW would have been okay to have his kids killed too. Statistically speaking, fathers rarely murder their children. I can see him agreeing to Shannan but he did seem to adore the girls. Also, he was so adamant during the first confession about not having killed the girls. In the 7 hour long interview at 6h17, he said "It doesn't make sense, nothing makes sense, why would she be there." I think he refers to NK showing up and doing that deed. I also think the girls bodies may have been put in the tank by JG and NK on Tuesday and that's why they were sick. CW had no scratch mark, no sweat, acting normal. I would imagine him being way too freaked out.
ReplyDelete2:24 mark: Larry says there was a meeting between the DA and an executive with Anadarko
https://youtu.be/0XDo_jnANkE
"" Blaire "". also filed paperwork to not be listed because of the nature of her work.
I do still think it's intriguing (although admittedly coming from a questionable source) that Cadle said CW said he forgot SW's phone at the house and checked the car to see if he left it on the passenger seat of the vehicle. It's almost like CW didn't really know where the phone was. I think it has impliciations for discerning what his original plan might have been had it not been disrupted by NA or it kind of hints at an accomplice that bailed on him. It will be interesting to see if we ever learn more about what actually happened with SW's phone and what his original plan was. In any case, if it's true that CW did not have the phone with him, this means there had to have been an accomplice who turned off the phone at the house after he left that morning.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WattsCaseEvidence/comments/kjmnag/who_had_sws_phone_and_turned_it_off_on_the/
Scopolamine.....
ReplyDeletepaytonplace1966 wrote 1 year ago:
After watching this I'm wondering whether Kessinger might have some experience with hypnosis ..because Chris kept saying this didnt make any sense ...and that he felt like he had no control over himself and etc ? Ya know what I mean ? When you listen to what Chris says about her asking him those questions when they spoke after the murders ..and the way she was acting then ..?
Chris said she gave him a "cleanse" every night to drink but he didn’t know what was in it. With NK, Chris said he would fall asleep and wake up an hour or two later and pick up right where he left off (NK also told detectives a version of this). Chris said he would blackout, like in a trance, and he was not sure what was happening to him during that hour or two.
NK quite possibly was hypnotizing him and using drugs in these “cleanses”.
Scopolamine.....
Quickly dissolved in liquids, criminals slip the powder into drinks or sprinkle it on food. Reuters states that victims become so docile that they have been known to help thieves rob their homes and empty their bank accounts. Women have been drugged repeatedly over days and gang-raped or rented out as prostitutes.
Even small doses of the drug are reported to cause "submissive" behavior, while larger doses apparently cause almost instantaneous unconsciousness, followed by complete anterograde amnesia (inability to recall recent events).
There have been numerous incidents of drugs being used (including scopolamine) to incapacitate travelers in order to rob them.
Scopolamine can be administered through aerosols, cigarettes, gum, or in powder form. Typically, travelers are approached by someone asking for directions; the drug is concealed in a piece of paper and is blown into the victim's face.
DeleteExercise extreme caution, as scopolamine can cause prolonged unconsciousness and serious medical problems."
What makes the drug so frightening is its simplicity in administration. Black told Vice that criminals can blow scopolamine in the face of an unsuspecting victim, and within minutes, that person is under the drug’s effect.
A 21 year old prostitute that you'll meet in the documentary uses scopolamine on her clients to rob them. Reuters reported one such incident involving three young Bogota women who preyed on men by smearing the drug on their breasts and luring their victims to take a lick.
Now under the influence, the men readily gave up their bank access codes. The breast-temptress thieves then held them hostage for days while draining their accounts. "You can guide them wherever you want," he explains matter of factly. "It’s like they’re a child."
The drug, he said, turns people into complete zombies and blocks memories from forming. So even after the drug wears off, victims have no recollection as to what happened.
Your brain on scopolamine
So how does this happen? How can a drug leave a person not only with amnesia, but with the inability to exercise free will.
Memories are facilitated through a brain chemical called acetylcholine. When Scopolamine comes onboard it competes with acetylcholine, wins the competition and blocks the acetylcholine receptor in the brain, so that the lock and key fit isn't made. This lock and key fit -- lock (acetylcholine receptor) fit with the key (brain chemical acetylcholine) -- is important in how you make memories.
What we remember goes through three key stages: the initial making of the memory (encoding), creation of long-term memories (storage/consolidation) and recall (retrieval). Scopolamine blocks the first stage, memory encoding, which takes place in the hippocampus – an area critical for memory.
In other words, the information never gets stored in the first place. So you can understand why scopolamine is so popular with criminals such as rapists and robbers. But what makes it popular for criminals, makes it troubling for police.
According to Reuters, since scopolamine completely blocks the formation of memories, unlike most date-rape drugs used in the United States and elsewhere, it is usually impossible for victims to ever identify their aggressors.
Delete"When a patient (of U.S. date-rape drugs) is under hypnosis, he or she usually recalls what happened. But with scopolamine, this isn't possible because the memory was never recorded," said Dr. Camilo Uribe, the world's leading expert on the drug.
And freewill? An inability to react to external aggression (submissive behavior), probably associated with another part of the brain called the amygdala.
Scopolamine and "twilight sleep"
At the beginning of the twentieth century, physicians began to use scopolamine, along with morphine and chloroform, to induce to induce a state of ‘twilight sleep’ during childbirth. While under the influence of the drugs, the women suffered less from labor pains, but experienced somnolence, drowsiness, disorientation, hallucinations and amnesia. Mothers woke up after giving birth, not remembering what happened
But in 1916 the rural Texan obstetrician Robert House noticed the drug had another unusual effect: that although the new moms were unable to remember what happened during delivery, they were nonetheless able to answer questions accurately and often volunteered exceedingly candid remarks. House had asked a patient’s husband for the scales to weigh the newborn. When the man could not find them his wife, still in a semi-conscious limbo, said "They are in the kitchen on a nail behind the picture." House concluded that "without exception, the patient always replied with the truth. The uniqueness of the results obtained from a large number of cases examined was sufficient to prove to me that I could make anyone tell the truth on any question."
C Mcluty
ReplyDelete1 year ago
Isnt it strange that Nicole A and her son were treated more as suspects...NK was treated more as a friend...crazy..CBI-why?!
The Unveileress Reginae Caeli
1 year ago (edited)
@C Mcluty people keep telling me if nk was guilty of anything the cops would have not let her go. And therefore I'm just a conspiracy theorist. Conspiracy on what? All I said I backed with actual documents, documents that were so on spot she wants it removed. Plus its Not true what they said about them thinking she's clean if they let her go this easy. The cops could totally be watching her and waiting to mess up somewhere, building their case to have a reason to bring her back in. My God, it would be ANYONE else in her shoes, that woman would have been dragged into the courtroom by the hair. Her, nothing, not even a slap on the hand, and supposedly even facilitated into witness protection. Some people in CRAZY dangerous situations can't even manage to get into the program. But her, not a problem. Seriously. SMH.
C Mcluty
1 year ago
So after watching Youtube videos of law enforcement and people "connected" in local politics or children of these people pulled over for DUI all over the world are treated significantly different than regular folk....so there must be some kind of NK fathers connection to CBI. NK was treated as "old" friend you could tell the officers niceness was forced.
Aly Jiselle
1 year ago
It's a coincidence that I'm reading your comment not long after listening to NA's interview-- and I thought the Exact. Same. Thing. They questioned her as if they were trying to rule her out as a suspect, while they let NK take complete control of her interview, and never called her out on her numerous lies and contradictions. In the first 10 minutes alone, she when from saying "He told me they were separated," to "He told me they were GETTING separated." Why wasn't she asked to clarify which was true??? Meanwhile, NA was questioned and even double-questioned about the most trivial information and minute details -- like the name of the book, the placement of the purse, the color of the sheets, etc. There was a police officer AND a detective in the house at during the time NA was there -- wasn't it THEIR job to document those details???
The Unveileress Reginae Caeli
1 year ago
THIS EXACTLY. and then people tell me "why don't you leave her alone?!" And that I'm spreading disinformation and all I'm saying was not true. It so much wasn't true that nk is trying her best to have it wiped off the internet. Until we have proof both her and Jim were investigated further, I won't be happy and so won't a lot of people. The depth of investigation they did with certain individuals, while skipping over some others is BAFFLING. Especially how they didn't interrogate Jim just "because Nichol said not to". Are you kidding? Since when can you say no to the CBI/FBI/police? Since when???!
Steven Lundgrin
1 year ago
@The Unveileress Reginae Caeli Why didn't the DA require a sworn oral or written statement from CW about details of the murder as part of the plea agreement? When have you heard of a murder trial being wrapped up in three months from time of arrest to sentencing? Who wanted this to all "go away?" Anadarko?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiHHcBJqp_A&t=830s
The Unveileress Reginae Caeli
Delete1 year ago
@Katrina McCaffery what you found is awesome tho. I been trying to see who and who isn't a mason or part of any society. I FINALLY linked the owner of Blackstone (owner of Vivint who has his hands in EVERYTHING including in the 20th century fox who distributes American Horror story, the trailer of the show that showed up on Nate's CCTV footage, on the bodycam footage of the cops) to being an ex skull and bones last night. I got the tip from astral pilot/operation z channel but he couldn't confirm it. I FINALLY did. Now I'm trying to see who else. I'm working on a huge video that explains WHY Chris watts/HOW etc. Not sure how it will be received because we go DEEP into "CONSPIRACYYYY". But as always, whatever I will state will be backed up with visual documentation that viewers can follow along with. I'm not trying to convince anyone this is a cover up. I'm just laying out facts, my findings, stating MY opinion and asking people to make up their own mind. But you know...I'm "brainwashing" people and "distracting the audience from reality" 🙄🙃
https://youtu.be/EbrluEg-13A
Katrina McCaffery
1 year ago
When the Chris Watts case broke, like you, I saw signs right away that something wasn’t right. You start to get an eye for the stuff once you’ve done some research or know people involved in these secret occults. Just days after the story broke I started researching Nichol. One of the first things I found was a voters registration where she was listed as an unaffiliated party with agnostic as her religion. This is gone now although the MyLife site did have the info up for a time as well. Some people may not see that as a red flag but I do. The area she is from, all the lodges around her, her assets at a young age, the last name Kessinger which has deep roots is Freemasonry. One of the biggest authors of Masonic books last name is spelled the same. Her searching Chris and Shannan a year prior, the mind games she played on him. The connections of Anadarko/Bush/Vivant. All the dang orange & purple everywhere. I know purple was for lupus but it stood out to me because my landlords Masonic temple colors are orange and purple. (The friend Chris stayed with that first night was wearing an orange shirt that Shannan was photographed in. Same shirt) I’m not saying it was all fake and didn’t happen. I just personally believe it was some kind of sacrifice and Chris was a pawn. I’m not entirely convinced he did it all by himself and that it happened the way he recently said. He’s covering for someone. My opinion.
Katrina McCaffery
Delete1 year ago
I wonder if this is why she was so bothered that you showed she was part of the honor society. “Phi Theta Kappa Scholarship – This scholarship was established by the alumni members of Phi Beta Kappa Masonic or Eastern Star relative with member in participating lodges apply directly to Lodge.”
I personally knew a few people who were in those honor societies that were also Freemasons. One was my old landlord. So I just googled the name with ‘Freemason’ or ‘masonic’ and woah! The results blew me away. I always figured she was anyways with the way the police treated her and her Dad. Plus, there are lodges all around where they live. An eastern star lodge is right down the road from her old address. Sure, you can live around several lodges and not be a member but, everything seems to point to the family being members.
The Unveileress Reginae Caeli
1 year ago (edited)
@Katrina McCaffery I used to be in a relationship with a 33rd degree mason (32nd at the time). During one of their open ceremonies dinners, where each bring their respective wives/girlfriends, the "ladies" were telling me to come by an order of the Eastern star meeting they have weekly. I almost joined! The process is crazy. You have to go through a lengthy process with interviews and background search, they even come at your house to judge your environment, and you HAVE to have TWO freemasons petition for you, one of whom who HAS to be a direct relative (or your husband). I remember being so put off by the OES because, contrary to the masons, they sound like hardcore Jehovah's witnesses (I don't mean literally, but it's a very Christian extremist borderline cultish feel, and SUPER snobbish).
I felt really pressured by my significant other, as most of the wives are in the order, or in the rosicrucians or "something". At least the ones who with some of the higher ranks. I felt like it was kind of one of those "offers you can't refuse" lol...
unfortunately (or fortunately?) me and him broke up right after that, to the shock of everyone (had been together almost a decade, gave this guy my whole 20s) and I never even got to participate in any of the OES meetings.
I went to a boatload of open ceremonies tho, last one being for the Royal arch masons. It feels like another life now. If I could, I would ask my ex to look into the masonry database and see if any Kessinger and co show up. But forget it, he will never agree to it. I can't tell you how many times I'd ask a question and the only thing I'd get back would be, "I can't tell you, please stop asking". It would piss me off so much. I'd be like, we have been together 10 YEARS and you don't trust me???! They don't care. Masonry LITERALLY is "Bros before hoes" LOL 😂😂😂
Title The Ritual of the Original Rose of Seven Seals
DeleteAuthor Anonymous
Edition reprint
Publisher Kessinger Publishing, 2010
ISBN 1162563605, 9781162563602
Length 18 pages
This scarce book was originally prepared for Masonic sisters who passed the Eastern Star, Heroines of Jericho, Ladies of Knights, and Daughters of Sphinx degrees. Its purpose was to have a universal correspondence, affiliation for conferring of degrees, rendering of assistance, and charity. This is the complete ritual!
https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Ritual_of_the_Original_Rose_of_Seven.html?id=sBRWYgEACAAJ
Red Sea is Your Blood
Deleteby Kuhn, Alvin Boyd
Publisher:Kessinger Publishing, LLC, 1993
Other books by Alvin Boyd Kuhn
A Rebirth for Christianity [New/Used]
Alvin Boyd Kuhn's Collection [New/Used]
Christ's Three Days in Hell: Revelation of an Astounding Christian Fallacy [New/Used]
Creation in Six Days [New/Used]
Earth, Water, Air, And Fire [New/Used]
Easter [New/Used]
Esoteric Structure of the Alphabet [New/Used]
Halloween a Festival of Lost Meanings [New/Used]
India's True Voice [New/Used]
Let there be Light - On Genesis [New/Used]
Mary Magdalene and Her Seven Devils [New/Used]
Prayer and Healing [New/Used]
Sex As Symbol: The Ancient Light in Modern Psychology [New/Used]
Shadow of the Third Century: A Revaluation of Christianity [New/Used]
Spiritual Symbolism Of The Sun And Moon: New Lectures On Ancient Wisdom [New/Used]
The Case of the Missing Messiah [New/Used]
The Esoteric Structure Of The Alphabet And It's Hidden Mystical Language [New/Used]
The Lost Key to the Scriptures [New/Used]
The Lost Light: An Interpretation of Ancient Scriptures [New/Used]
The Red Sea Is Your Blood: The New Enlightenment [New/Used]
The Root of All Religion [New/Used]
The Stable and the Manger: New Lectures on the Ancient Wisdom [New]
The Tree of Knowledge [New/Used]
Through Science to Religion [New/Used]
Who is This King of Glory a Critical Study of the Christos-Messiah Tradition 1944 [New]
Who is This King of Glory?: A Critical Study of the Christos-Messiah Tradition [New/Used]
A Rebirth for Christianity [FULL LEATHER BOUND] [New]
Alive In Death [New]
Alvin Boyd Kuhn's Collection by Alvin Boyd Kuhn (2011-05-13) [New/Used]
Emmanuel's Lamp [New]
Esoteric Structure Of The Alphabet By Alvin Boyd Kuhn [Used]
First That Which Is Natural [New]
From Religion To Philosophy [New]
Great Pan Is Dead [New]
Hatred Of Philosophy [New]
If Christ Be Not Risen [New]
In Pluto's Dark Realm [New]
Losing The Seven Seals [New]
Maya And Lila [New]
Milk For Babes [New]
Myth Truer Than History [New]
Orion And His Dog [New]
Paul Knows Not Jesus [New]
Phallicism Transfigured [New]
Prayer and Healing [Used]
Primeval Christianity [New]
Rebirth For Christianity By Alvin Boyd Kuhn [Used]
Robbing Paul To Pay Peter [New]
Sex as symbol The ancient light in modern psychology (1945)[SOFTCOVER] [New]
Sex as Symbol: The Ancient Light in Modern Psychology by Alvin Boyd Kuhn (2010-05-23) [New/Used]
Sublime Myth Makes Grotesque History [New/Used]
The Ark In The Deluge [New]
The Child Is Father Of The Man [New]
The Garden Of The World [New]
The Image Of The Supermind [New]
The Imprisoned Splendor [New]
The Intellectual Love Of God [New]
The Language Of Lingam And Yoni [New]
The Lost Cycles Of The Sun [New]
The Lost Light An Interpretation Of Ancient Scriptures 1940 [New]
The Lost Light: An Interpretation of Ancient Scriptures by Alvin Boyd Kuhn (2011-05-13) [New/Used]
The Lost Meaning Of Death: New Lectures On Ancient Wisdom [New/Used]
The Mating Of Sun And Moon [New]
The Mating Of Sun And Moon - Pamphlet [New]
The Night Is Long [New]
The Oil Of Gladness [New]
The Pattern In The Mount [New]
The Red Sea (is Your Blood) (1976 Reprint) [Used]
The Seed Of Divinity [New]
The Shadow Of The Sphinx [New]
The Shout Of Paul's Silence [New]
The Two Mothers Of The Christ [New]
Greetings from Kessinger Publishing!
DeleteHere's your special catalog of 1,750 Rare Mystical & Masonic Reprints. This is the most complete catalog of its kind anywhere. We hope you enjoy it!
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LIQ Box
ReplyDelete1 day ago
@Angie Welch let me guess, they're all democrats. Part of the swamp? Satanists? Dirty 666000 barrels per day AnaDarkO in 2018
Denise Porter
1 day ago
Exactly, anyone that thinks this is just a conspiracy and CW acted alone has not done their research, and if they have they are lacking intelligence to see the obvious. It is really not that complicated, and is the only thing that makes sense. CW wasn’t Einstein by any means, but he certainly wasn’t stupid enough to take the bodies to where GPS tracked him and hope no one figured it out. The plan got interrupted, that is why it looks sloppy.
victoryak86
2 days ago
The thing is, this is really the ONLY logical possibility. People say he was so dumb etc., but he clearly planned this (maybe with help of others). It literally makes ZERO SENSE to conclude that he simply planned to leave their bodies at his OWN JOB SITE?!! The plans were clearly derailed when the hero Nicole A., Shanann’s loyal and brave friend DERAILED EVERYTHING! I just don’t see there is any other likely scenario than that they’d planned to blow it all up. I think it’s just connecting dots.
Denise Porter
2 days ago
Well said! CW wasn’t stupid enough to leave the bodies at his workplace (driving there with GPS). It looks sloppy because it was interrupted .
Angie Welch
2 days ago
ABSOLUTELY 👍 That is why Chris was stalling for time and begging for her not to call the police. Chris simply could not pull off the plan because NA showed up on the scene. No one could leave the house with Shanann's car etc. She is the TRUE hero in this case...coupled with Sandy Rzucek, they put Chris' feet to the fire and threw a wrench in the entire plan.
Sammie Jamieson
2 days ago
Also because SR unexpectedly changed the password on her phone. CW is so vain it never crossed his mind that SR would do that. He thought he had her sucked in completely when he was telling her he would "fix everything". He did not know she was telling all her close friends what was going on in his marriage.
Angie Wimsatt
18 hours ago
Let’s not forget how eager CW was to get back to work, like the next day.
LIQ Box
Delete1 day ago (edited)
@ 47:00 the firestick can be used as remote control for the Batteries - installations-(with a gitthub) chris had his work laptop with him!!!! Remember? With more people you can remotely (with fire stick unseen) handle installations(not only tv's) That's how they noticed the leak in the first place: remotely. Btw the father of Nikki knows all about this field. It's his expertise ✅
Ps what happened with all the workdevices of NK and CW? Did they investigated that?
Amy Eck
2 days ago (edited)
NK, said she kept telling Chris she was scared. I think because the plan was falling through, she started panicking! When NA showed up and Chris and NK couldn’t get into Shanann’s phone....
victoryak86
1 day ago
@K C you assume that a complex plan, long in the making, couldn’t go wrong. However many such plans throughout history have been ruined bec there are many variables. I’m not saying you’re wrong. Is it possible that he acted alone and was just incredibly stupid to put the bodies at his OWN JOBSITE? Yes it is. But there are still many questions and suspicious things here and we are looking at all possibilities. There is evidence that he WAS planning this. Not just a sudden “crime of passion” or whatever one might call it. So if there was a plan, again it just is illogical to think it was to leave the bodies where it would be CERTAIN and easy for them to be discovered (as was the case). It was because the plan was thwarted by one of those pesky variables. Just theorizing as all of us are doing. Just saying “Nope, not possible.” Doesn’t change the fact that there are all of these other questions. And it’s not wrong to explore them. Again you could be right but as AD’s guest said “Chris, if this were your plan just to leave them there, YOU WOULD BE LIKE THE WORST MURDERER EVER.” Is CW that stupid? Maybe, but not likely. He’s clearly a narcissist or possibly psychopathic but isn’t stupid in that sense imho.
https://youtu.be/4mIKb8hDDyc
Based on what the coroner said, Shanann's murderer was perpendicular to her, with his right arm around the right side of her neck and the palm of his left hand under the left side of SW's chin, pushing upward. This would mean her murderer was standing behind her, facing her back, when he attacked her, using his right arm to put her in a rear chokehold.
ReplyDeleteIf those fingermarks on Shannan's neck were her own, then who's got the scratched up hand, because CW didn't?
Also this person definitely wearing gloves. Thus the blue glove found on the bedroom floor and another one on top of the kitchen refrigerator.
The fact Chris Watts said that the children were blue and that's impossible in such a short period of time after death, debunks his version of events to his dad when he initially confessed and is a major clue to his lie.
And that SW's eyes filled with blood is impossible.
And that he was on top of her using both his hands to strangle her in the front of her neck is impossible.
Now I think we know why it was so important to lea-vv-ve Jim alo-oonn-ee because if Shanann did fight for her life then he's probably the one all scratched up.
And it would of been so obvious to LE.
It had to be a big reason why she didn't want them to approach him because he was her only alibi.
https://youtu.be/g2shWnleqGk
Thank you for using my videos I appreciate the shoutout and your work is incredibly awesome!! ♡
ReplyDeleteChris Watts Mistress Caught Red Handed. CCTV footage doesn't lie, you do Ms.Kessinger.
ReplyDelete5,936 views•Dec 30, 2020
Mabeline Rose
2 months ago
Thank you to everyone who who has taken time to review this and publicly comment below. I would just like to show appreciation for the positive feedback and its not my video, ADs video, chris watts or Nathan's video. this video has been inspired by Shannan's undeniable ability to draw the attention of everyone who's been involved and at the least invested their own time from everyday life to pursue this non profitable and highly controversial matter.
With the platform he has I would love for AD to contact me in regards to this because regardless of what the media is doing as far as the work it takes to not just read a script written and given for someone to read, this exact length of dedication and extensive observation is not only important for countless individuals who have been brainwashed by the news to believe she was not involved, it is very important to be sure our community of the small group of people who are fully aware of her entire lack of honesty and amount of persuasion she has been able to accomplish with the help of the people who should have been holding her accountable for the almost infiltration she has achieved.
we all need to look at the end result of what we are trying to accomplish within this circle of people who are outraged due to the evil nature and effectiveness at manipulation she has remained largely committed to doing until now. I think anyone who might want this to have justice for our beloved family tragically snatched from what they could have been if given the chance.
we need to be more proactive in the process of getting the best base of people who have the ability or capability in a career that is helpful and not focus on changing the minds of people who have been nothing more than just background noise in the fight with justice on behalf of our girls and nico!!
We should all use this information not as property or for protest but only for providing proof to someone who will see it that will take this long journey to the next level with diligence and effort we can get this out. no matter who has to do this I think we should prioritize the things we can do to make a difference rather then fight over the things and minds we can't get through to. Together we are all guided with a very positive outcome and in order to achieve that goal remember we all know what must-have occurred is anything but innocent on her particular involvement but the only way to get anywhere further is to start by patiently expanding with the power of technology and promoting this.
Those who have been the greatest asset for this are the definition of possibility and we don't need to explain anything further when there is nothing to argue with. we have the proof, its been laid out in complete detail, and we have a responsibility to make sure our time is spent reaching more people and less trying to make sure the people who don't get it do. but they are not the one behind this injustice they are just following what they have been lead by the devilish parasitic women to believe. They aren't the threat to society they if anything should be treated compassionately as they have been kept from the truth and blindfolded by the same evil chris watts was controlled by.
The only things that could ever impact the game she has been winning in our system is spreading this over and across platform after platform and praying for the future to bring a big impact on behalf of our strong community online for nothing more than the justice and safety of the world 🙏 🌎 💜
Watt Do You See
Delete1 month ago
I dont know if you are aware but AD stole my shadows and The two on the drive and the video that went with the shadows that I FOUND and here you are wanting ADs attention. Please do some research on this man. he is a Plagiarist and a conman.
Mabeline Rose
1 month ago
@Watt Do You See i agree wholeheartedly and I completely understand. I have this week learned first hand as he has done it to me and went to great lengths to delete my comments on not only his videos but also live streams as I was trying to say I was the creator while him and sharil ktl deliberately designed their videos to look as if they had their own unnamed resources.
I since have grown contempt disdain in the disrespectful "spyware infective" aka malware undetective or doucheware contraceptive for short. He has lost his marbles and knocked a few screws loose in his his own inability to be creative. It's cringy to see him completely repudiate the unique and exceptional work people have taken to which he has been kicking the credit for doing.
I will be making more content and as for being able to get your name i can now give credit to whomever its due because I seen the video you made and defended you in his comments years ago and never made it clear that you have been nothing but an inspiration to me since your original video and your ongoing fight with his followers on the truth about the initial content.
My thoughts on this comment were never to discredit you or pass him credit, I was simply giving an indentation for him to collaborate with me instead of what he has since done, that I knew was going to happen since he does this to every creator he finds profitable content from.
I've blocked him since last year. I couldn't stand the flooded feed I get with him and his bs theories and lies. but as bad as I wish it weren't the case, the man has an exceptional amount of followers and has a strong impact on people who are interested in this case. Hate him or love him, he can, if he actually stopped talking about bullshit lies, obtain the amount of awareness to make us get to see in our lifetime: nk be held accountable for the violent crimes she has taken part in.
If you hate me still I understand but im not your enemy. I'm just giving the power of a voice to those who have been silenced for eternity about the truth of this issue. through the power of God I have been thinking about positive ways to make sure our Project is not buried with the pile of bullshit useless things that are uploaded every day about this case.
Mabeline Rose
1 month ago
@Watt Do You See also i'd love and much rather collaborate with you and the fact that you have the ability to be as detail oriented and slowly devote hours of energy and time to review this information from someone who has dedicated a great portion of my life to endlessly giving undecided attention to second after second individuals amazing this footage has every single dose of respect from my heart and soul I have to say I am kind of starstruck to have you in my comments positive or negative gassed me up a lil bit gonna lie made my day !
Watt Do You See
1 month ago
@Mabeline Rose oh ok then lol. I thought you were another AD wannabe Pschophant hahaha. AD is poison and will remain so, He has done too much damage to the ones that matter, not to mention stealing everyones work. i am particilarly sensitive as he stole Not only the Two on the drive but My Shadows along with MY Theories on The battery and Nk and an amazing amount of other things. Id be happy to collaborate with you now that you have explained yourself. As you can see newbys are popping up everywhere claiming this and that and its like theft. they watch and take notes from our hard work and use the key points we have found and sit back and rake it in.
https://youtu.be/i6ezDq1vl8M
An affair led to murder when Chastity West slashed at the children of partner Arnold Cuyler with a box cutter
ReplyDeleteFeb 03, 2020
By Jerry Brown
Twisted Love follows the case of a love triangle in Connecticut that led a jealous woman in July 1998 to attack two young children with a box cutter. Chastity West was jealous of 7-year-old Jarrell Cuyler and his little sister, 2-year-old Lindsey, because of the sick notion that they were preventing their father, Arnold Cuyler, from marrying her.
Arnold had had the children with his wife Tammi but had begun an affair with Chastity, a 23-year-old licensed practical nurse, shortly after Lindsey was born. Chastity was a cousin of Tammy’s and knew the children well; the affair had started when she used to babysit the children.
Chastity West was driven mad with jealously
Tammy and Arnold were divorced in 1996, and the affair with Chastity continued. However, Chastity was enraged that Arnold refused to leave the state with her and insisted on spending time with his children. He allegedly refused to marry her because he didn’t want to cause more tension within the family.
When Tammy accused Arnold of adultery during their marriage, a furious Chastity recruited a cousin’s boyfriend, Alexis Grajales, under the pretext of going to Tammy’s home to intimidate her and vandalize her home.
On breaking into Tammy’s home Grajales pinned the mother of two to the floor while Chastity hunted for the children. When Chastity discovered their whereabouts, she hacked at them with a box cutter. Jarrell’s head was almost decapitated, and he died immediately. Lindsey was injured but survived the attack.
When Grajales realized Chastity was harming the children, he fled the scene leaving Tammy to make the grisly discovery of what had happened to her children.
Police closed in on Chastity West
The crime remained unsolved for a week until investigators grew highly suspicious of all the holes and contradictions in West’s explanations of her whereabouts on the night of the murder. After being shown a photo of Jarrell’s near-decapitated corpse, she confessed to the crime.
Chastity’s mental health, combined with her good behavior in custody, combined with testimony from family and friends led her to escape the death penalty. She was instead sentenced to life imprisonment without the possibility of parole.
Other love triangles that led to murder
Follow the links to read about other cases of when a love triangle went horribly wrong and led to death, such as the tragic case of Cody MacPherson, who found himself on the receiving end of a vengeful ex-boyfriend. Or the case of Canadian airforce Major David Turenne who’s wife and lover hatched a plan which ended with him being beaten to death.
https://www.monstersandcritics.com/tv/true-crime/an-affair-led-to-murder-when-chastity-west-slashed-at-the-children-of-partner-arnold-cuyler-with-a-box-cutter/
Carol Johanson
ReplyDelete1 week ago (edited)
she was creeping online and was in marital home
The very next day, after Shannon went live on Facebook showing Chris that she was expecting again,
the next day was June 12 and by about 10 in the morning NK sent an email from her Tasman geosciences account at the Anadarko office
and she thanks Chris for his honesty.
And not only is that timing strange but what would he have been being honest about?
she clearly saw the post and he admitted that yeah, he and his wife were expecting
so she knew that
and that was the big basis for her saying she erased her texts and deleted her information
because she was so upset that he lied to her.
Those emails in June, starting on June 5, were staged
and that’s why they sound so strange
they knew the explosion would be investigated and phone pings traced so they had to create a “work friendship” to explain the mutual correspondence and matching phone locations, it would be explained that months before the murders, they had established this platonic work friendship.
Nothing to lead back to creating a mistress and murdered wife scenario
They also used burners
Cause they’d already slept together prior to their reported first date
Phone texts indicate they had been intimate prior.
Those are in May.
But she insists they only became lovers after July 3 or very end of June around her birthday.
She was at Watts house too when they talked Monday night.
She keeps referring to the house: “here or when she comes back here or if she’s here and you’re here”
Etc.
If she had been speaking via telephone she would have been saying, if she comes back there or if you do you are alone together
don’t be there “without her not here”
So that’s just another lie that slipped by Kevin Koback
they were already plotting the murders
probably by that time
and I think the explosion theory is quite likely
otherwise he wouldn’t have taken the bodies to work with the GPS showing that that’s directly where he went and knowing he was on camera.
So with her being the safety officer who would’ve overseen something like that
environmental hazard and a potential life-threatening hazard if that oil has spark
when they all knew they left that leak on the ground over the weekend
there was a reason for it and we can’t pretend that these things are all just Coincidence.
So to be so brazen as to try and get away with this he would’ve had to know that the woman he loved or lusted after or whatever was in agreement with his plan and therefore would help him conceal it and love him just as much or more after work.
There’s some really nasty human behavior is at play here and all the seven deadly sins
Cathy Hendrix
Delete1 week ago (edited)
Hey, did anybody else catch how NK phrases the comment that she makes about CW should not go to work? It's at the very beginning of this video. He said like I'm going to work tomorrow and I told him no, no you need to stay home, "you need to stay right here IN THIS HOUSE." Um, the vernacular would suggest that she's there at HIS house with him, and not on the phone. Because otherwise wouldn't she have said " you need to stay right THERE in YOUR house"??? Right? That's the way I learned English anyway. To my way of thinking, she slipped up, and put herself in CW house AFTER Shanann and girls went missing. Hmmmmmmm. Yeah, she's only been there twice my ass!
Sweetly creeping in
1 week ago
She tattles on herself
You have 3 kids and I wasn’t even angry about it ... WAS I HURT? YES.
She tells everything if you delete the
Filibustering
Kathleen NB
1 week ago
There are so many contradictions but one that stood out this time was when NK mentioned that they couldn’t return to a certain park because CW’s friend runs there. If NK actually thought CW & SR were separated, why would she think they couldn’t be at a park where CW may see a friend? I want SA Coder to bust in the room and start asking her about the 2 Nikkis.
Also... Aren’t y’all just SO IMPRESSED with her obtaining a bachelors degree like 7/8 years after graduating high school? And her almost perfect credit score? And her Goodwill furniture? And her nutritious diet? Isn’t it all so amazing and important?! I bet SA Tammy Lee and SA Graham Coder would’ve loved to be there congratulating NK on her achievements but they were kind of busy retrieving NK’s boyfriend’s murdered children from f**** oil tanks. The arrogance involved here is like nothing I’ve ever heard.
Positive Dee Irish
1 week ago
So if she believed they were separating, why didn’t she question Chris ‘Why are you afraid to meet me in the same park your friend runs in?? She’s a liar
barbara knowles
6 days ago
why would he then go catch a plane and spend a week with his wife and daughters catching up with family doing things with them going places etc ,if they were separated, the only reason he wasn't happily spending time with his family was because of NK!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XjbEOXUSMI
Michele Kisly
Delete1 week ago
This is a big GAME to Nikki--- and she feels she has WON--- because she is still alive
Solstice Beat
1 week ago
I hear you, but I pity her existence. Her “life” isn’t much of one.
Molly S
1 week ago
Oh yeah. If she did take part in the murders and got away with it, she lives with that high of 'I got away with murder '
Melissa Sue
1 week ago
And he killed for her....
belj w
1 week ago
@Melissa Sue Agree I believe she wanted them gone!!! She was so jealous of shanann!!!
Tonia Rose
1 week ago
She sounded like she's gloating & it makes me sick to listen to her brag in that way.
I do believe that she & CW are perfect for each other. They both love talking about themselves.
SuperHero LOVES Akita’s
1 week ago
@Solstice Beat unfortunately she appears too arrogant to know how despicable she is.
Goldilocks67AC Andrejcisk
6 days ago
Still alive and walking free, smh
M ASPEN
Delete1 week ago
At 3.30 she may have said that because she wanted to hear the murders to prove his love to her, just like the next morning when she was DEMANDING Chris to confirm he was at the oil site. ... I used to give her the benefit of doubt but as time goes on I just cannot. She twists everything to the investigation
Dark Skies
1 week ago (edited)
“I still probably have those texts with Jim because I had no reason to delete them “ 🤔 then she says after she found out it was his baby she says he asked if that affected their relationship and she says no it doesn’t but find your family. When EXACTLY did she delete these texts?
Amanda Samora
1 week ago
@Lovely Libra she's trying to feel something for "this girl" and her babies! . Like I thought that girl just left for the night. We were like at salty dog and we were like talking about his macros the night before the murders and I talk to Chris for an hour like right before he killed that girl and those kids but like iiii don't remember what we talked about for 1:11 min . Like I didn't clock into work that morning either. Like my phone pinged in fredrick that morning but like idk why!!?!?
Geegee Poo
1 week ago
@Lovely Libra I have thought that she lags her voice when she’s lying....
Conservative Views
1 week ago
When they mentioned Charlotte notice how her voice gets really low and scared almost . Maybe she told Charlotte more about what she really knows and was worried that Charlotte may have snitched . she was really worried when they mentioned Charlotte . When she speaks loud I feel it’s pre rehearsed . Like she is very confident speaking. But when she doesn’t see a question coming she gets very low in tone and her demeanor changed .
Jenni Lang
1 week ago
She's extremely arrogant, but she's trying extremely hard to lay a lot of unnecessary details into her crafted "recounting of what happened". She's not talking to he helpful, as any normal human would be...she's talking to appear innocent and keep her ass out of a sling. She gave herself away by telling the cop that she'd get to that part of a story when she gets to it, instead of merely answering questions the cops are asking. All because she wants to tell the cops HER version first. Unreal.
Rae Ducky
1 week ago
she’s story telling. When the detective asked about the argument that took place between Shan’Ann and Chris she stops him and tells him she’ll “get there”.. thats not informative. Thats story telling. And I highly doubt she didnt know Shan’Ann was pregnant as much as she would stalk Shan’Ann on facebook? Yeah, right.
Sue S.
1 week ago
NK always fakes concern for Shannann. Meanwhile, it’s so obvious that she hated Shannann and was insanely jealous of her.
Cinnamon Girl
Delete1 week ago (edited)
She reminds me of Cindy. She’s trying to throw Shan’Ann under the bus and put her down. You can hear the jealousy in her voice. And sadly, she can’t even say Shan’ann’s name or Bella and CeCe’s names. I wish LE had just stopped her and said “who... can you state the names?” She even refers to Nico as “it” when she’s says “I know it’s yours”....
Vikki Vale
1 week ago
Why is she running things in a quadruple murder case?? Never ever heard of such a thing!! And had her daddy in one interview and he was running things as well...really never heard of that... I feel it in my bones that she was there and helped him I also believe they were doing drugs and seeing each other way longer than they say...
I believe she's reading everything she can online about her and chris I hope she's always looking over her shoulder never gets a good night's sleep ever cause chris is about to ratt fink her ass out with his delusional self thinking it will set him free...AS IF!! GODS law is always in affect nk and cw and may he show mercy the way shannan cc bella and niko were shown mercy by both of you monsters good luck with that...
Mandi Nicole
1 week ago
It’s always I told him this, I told him to do this, you can clearly see she was the mastermind behind everything just by the way she talks and how he’s such a pushover & clearly just a follower.
FreeChild 7
3 days ago
Wait a minute!!!! Did she say he should stay “HERE” when referring to Chris staying home from work on Monday ?
AEMTMomma
1 week ago
Hmmmm why does she keep saying "come here"? Wouldnt it be "come home" or go there? it was in the beginning. NK was saying Shannan would "come back here." I just found it really odd. If NK wasn't there, wouldnt she say shannan would "come home" or "go there?" The "here" really bothers me.
jessie SX
1 week ago
8:00 Dwayne Kessinger coaches his daughter Nichol Kessinger during the interview. (could this be why the audio was held back?)
Dayna Bods
1 week ago
I think she is being paid a LOT of money to keep quiet ...when you think of all the money she could have earned from tv interviews book deals etc it’s either a multi million pound company or she has an exclusive deal that is due in the future that has either bought her silence or offering her something else.
AAndrews
Delete1 week ago
Or it could just be the fact that she is guilty and she KNOWS that everyone else has figured it out by now. Which is probably exactly why she was so uber worried about the details surrounding her coming out. Otherwise, she would present herself as a truly innocent bystander.
carla Holland
1 week ago
I don't think the detective made up his mind that quick, I still think Chris made a deal: I confess and take a quilty plea if you don't go after Nicole K.
Lms83
1 week ago
Omg first 5 min she knows their whole routine and everything about them. She def knows waaaaay more than she admits to!
Simone Cassimire
1 week ago
Yeah she probably didn't know chris revealed all that,she absolutely knew about that pregnancy and hated the fact that it was a boy imo
Barb Vanlare
1 week ago
So, you finally have the man of your dreams to yourself after a long time of wanting him, you're in love Sunday night. He is now yours and by Tuesday you don't believe him anymore and you were done???
She selectively forgot a lot of things.
https://youtu.be/-XjbEOXUSMI
DeidraRealtor
1 week ago
She said that she thought he was getting separated yet she said that he told her he doesn’t sleep with his wife much & then she said well “obviously why you’re coming to me”
He told her they couldn’t meet at that park anymore because his friend goes there & so she said OK so obviously she knew he was married having an affair. Then she looked up about a guy marrying his mistress. Wedding dresses... yet she’s lying to the police saying she wasn’t as into him as he was to her.
She also said “she had no reason to delete texts from Jim” what was she trying to hide deleting the texts from Chris? I hope they were able to get them all off of her phone. What she did is tampering with evidence in a murder investigation & she got a hall pass from the police. They were way too nice to her.
Sunflower In SFe
1 week ago
This is such BS...Shannan did the video back in may with the oops T-shirt so Chris saying he just found out now is total BS..she sounds like what they may have rehearsed on that 111 conversation...
Delma Hermosillo
Delete1 week ago
Jim was sick that Monday morning and she was sick also. Why!!!
Fumes ...exposure from the oil tanks stuffing the girls helping CW that night...!
Melissa Murphy
6 days ago
Wow, poor Nichol sleeping on the couch with the dog, meanwhile Shanann is dead in the ground, Bella and Cece in oil tanks..her life is just so hard. Smh
Koogle A
1 week ago
at the start her father reminds her to discuss the 9 oclock thing... she says shell get back to it.. but never does.. what was that about?
James G Fraser
1 week ago
She described herself as this "amazing woman"!!! First class narcissist. "Would his family still be alive if he hadn't met me"? Let me answer that for you Kessinger, yes, his family would absolutely still be alive if not for you
samira dasa
7 hours ago
1 day after learning he murdered his entire family. She shows no emotion. I was more emotional hearing about this on the news, and I don't know these people!
Samantha Arletth
1 week ago (edited)
She says “idk” so much and yet knowing hers and his routines, am and pm details, creepy. She definitely is a predator and planned this to be able to run away with it.
This woman knows too much to not know what he did.
Redwood Rebelgirl
1 week ago
Interesting that Daddy specifically asked about what happens if CW "just pleads guilty", & asked (as I understood it) whether this would all come out in discovery.
And, then CW "just happens" to plead guilty to & stuff does not come out in a trial.
I am curious as to what Dwayne Kissinger DOES, FOR WHOM, & WHAT HIS STATUS, & POSITION, & WEALTH LEVEL US, & WHAT HIS CONNECTIONS ARE in that area.
Just questions that arise in my mind which may have no relevance at all.
Just curious.
Koogle A
1 week ago
the cop knows NK father... “ you know this” youve seen this before etc.. wtf???
Positive Dee Irish
Delete1 week ago
At around 1:05:35 He say’s to Dwayne Kessinger ‘you’ve seen that happen before’ ! What did he mean by that? They were talking about people pleading guilty 🧐
Katrina McCaffery
1 week ago
Hmm so around 1 hour and 5 mins in, NK’s Dad ask a few times about what happens if Chris pleads guilty. He wants to know if there will be a trial etc.. I’ve always wondered if Chris was pressured to plead guilty. I completely believe he is but, I’ve never been 100% convinced he acted alone. Wonder if he got a threat from Daddy dearest.
Rhythm N' Blues
1 week ago (edited)
She stayed on the phone with him the entire time he cleaned up his house the day after the murders and his childhood friends didn’t even know he was on the phone while he was doing it, so she was essentially LISTENING TO EVERYTHING FROM HIS POCKET like a spider watching him from a hole and we’re supposed to magically believe that she told him to cooperate with police. Right. 🙄
Micha Dawn
3 hours ago (edited)
Something to think about, during NK’s interview you can definitely tell by things that are said between NK and Kobac that there was a significant conversation that happened prior to the recording started. I think it’s about her “deal” they talk back and forth, listen around 31:40 for the next 6 or 8 minutes. NK says “he (CW) was prepping for everything that happened” then Kobac says something like “You tell me what you are willing to provide me with”
I think the parts that were not recorded contains NK totally ratting CW out. I think NK helped to get CW’s confession. Then the investigation was shut with a quickness as not to reveal NK’s involvement. This is why she was treated with kid gloves and why she is not popping up in media. Allegedly, for entertainment purposes only.
Anne Hawkins
53 minutes ago (edited)
Could it be that once they chloroform shannan ...the doctor had said it only puts you out for 10 or 15 minutes..could they have tied shannan up when she was out..the dogs had some interest there..and they perhaps just kept putting her out when she’d come round...and God knows she was put in the trunk of red Jim’s car.....and driven to the scrub at the oil tanks till chris n.k. and girls turned up...and Chris met up with Jim and they dragged shannan each with her arms around each of there shoulders..out of it ..but untied...to the hole...while n.k. was looking after the girls..in more ways then One...God rest all there Souls..the sheet was retrieved in the scrub....where Jim may have left it....and it blew away...and N.K. and Jim drove back to Chris’s house together..could that have been the ping in fredrick..on there return to Chris’s house ...to carry out the rest of the plan..but thank God n.a. and son put an end to that..why n.k. and Jim around the back parked would have still been there ..I don’t know maybe n.k. and Jim were cleaning the house of finger prints and such..and were to return to the oil rig in the scrub again with s.r. car for chris to pick up..and Jim was to follow behind n.k. and bring her back to her truck outside Chris’s house...when n.a. turned up Jim just left from the back in his red car...but n.k. needed to get her truck outside..out of there..and left when n.a. left to see did s.r. make it to the doctors .by then the ship had sunk and it was each man for himself.
linda king
Delete2 days ago
I'm sure Ronnie and Chris had already discussed this murder before he confessed and decided to talk in riddles. If my son had just told me my grand kids that i loved had been murdered i think my mind would be consumed with that thought to the point where i could not think for a bit, i think i would be asking him, why would she do that. Why did he ask Chris, ( had they already left the house, ) and who is they. He immediately turns on Shanann. Surely they both knew they were on camera. Are the Watts feeling really guilty about Chris being in jail, knowing they played a part in instigating the whole thing. What is a person capable of if they are on alcohol and cocaine. I don't fully agree with all Dr. J said, some i did. She didn't focus on the dark practice with NK and her friends, and probably Chris also. What about Jim, which hit a panic in NK when detective ask about interviewing him. There's lots more to this story than Chris wanting NK and she was just a homewrecker ,and course he had to be a bad person and her as well but this took a lot of planning that was fouled big time because Shanann's flight was delayed. I think this grave was dug ahead of time and there had already been a trial run the day before because Bella talked about how they had dug a hole when she was at the birthday party. Thumbs up to Jewels for Thought, and i think she knows a lot more than she's saying and probably can't say. Since the Watts came out with bashing Shanann since day one with so much hatred and now NA, who can have any respect for them.
Marilyn Aderson
2 days ago (edited)
I told u guys there was information one-time info was leaked - in weld county - there is a Boulder CO Cult and Hollywood connection - to NK - then no follow up - total quieted down. The green rock NK was having CW replace - is the same kind of stone found under Bella's bed.
WAS CHRIS WATTS' MISTRESS IN NORTH CAROLINA THAT WEEK IN THE SUMMER OF 2018? A TAROT READING REQUEST
ReplyDeleteMar 10, 2021
Tarot Cards for the Soul
G Ram wrote:
Texts came out from Jamie’s former friends that show she is the one who gave Chris the oxy.
https://youtu.be/YX9mlytrRb8
Did they really hate Shanaan so much that they despised their own grandchildren simply for being a part of her?! It’s so vile.
CW says there are some things he will take to his grave.
Where were CW and NK when he took the photos of her in the brown bikini?
Sowat Ocse
1 day ago
Sounds like sister is a nurse rachett ! The NC trip the min I saw thunder thighs in brown bikini I knew it was the psycho stalker
Tarot Cards for the Soul
1 day ago
Right, Janice Peery, xo! I am with you, it's hard to be surprised by anything at this point. Although I wasn't expecting to see Jim pop into NC too, but there it was! Ugh...
Amanda Smith
20 hours ago
Oh I knew it!!!!! Old NK is much more guilty than many may think! Burn this witch at the steaks! Off with her head! Lol another channel had pics from CW and SW on the North Carolina beach they were at and it showed a lady not far from Chris and shannan that looked just like NK there laying on the beach! It truly did look like her! This reading was amazing as is all of your other many readings my sweet friend!
Shell Macca
4 hours ago
This is why he will never tell on his mistress because if he does she will tell on his sister for her part in it disgusting man🤬🤬🤬 and my heart 💔goes out to shanann and her children for not even knowing they were around such evil inhumane people plotting their death she was living with a sheep in wolfs clothing and how frightening that pieces of crap like him walk amongst everyday playing a fake life with no emotions Very frightening indeed 😔
Myrtle Beach and the Watts Lies.... Did NK drop a Truth bomb????
DeleteMar 10, 2021
Crazy Crime Chick
https://youtu.be/laoLRpTAb_E
Lyn Croughan
2 weeks ago
I am convinced Jamie Watts is a part of this whole nightmare.
christine cutter
2 weeks ago
I always wondered about her too, I think she knew NK maybe... or something, she’s managed to stay right out of the limelight for some reason as well 🤔 sketchy
Tarot Cards for the Soul
2 weeks ago
I hear you, Lyn Croughan, xo! In one of my readings, the cards definitely suggested that she at least helped out with a car rental... I should do a deeper dive into it, but she may have rented the infamous "red car" for the accomplices.
Lyn Croughan
2 weeks ago
@Tarot Cards for the Soul I've always trusted my instincts on people, and they never served me wrong, watching her laugh about her birthday celebrations and her own children's joy that day, isn't normal, I wouldn't be able to look at my brother in the eye again, (as a mother) despite loving him or not if he put my nieces in oil he would be dead to me. He gave her the note a week before saying if anything happened to him it was Shannon, hmmm , odd timing? she shows ZERO empathy towards Shannon or the babies. xoxoxoxox
Alexandra Edlin
2 weeks ago
It makes perfect sense now.CW had a silent bond with his dad and secretive..I’m convinced now that he told his dad everything on the ride over.Especially the things Dad was saying in the interview made no sense.
https://youtu.be/d2m_SPEDnjE
The 35c appeal was part of the plan when CW took the plea deal. NK's father would use his connections, one being the actual judge. The appeal will not include anything about his accomplices. NK and Jim will not be mentioned.
DeleteHe will be granted an appeal based on the money he raised and his strong team. The dark forces, the demon possession -- the new legal team will cite this along with prison interviews. The demons made him do it. His original legal team hadn't checked his mental health. The gases from the hatches and his working environment, thrive, rec drugs, affected his mental health and he wasn't in his right mind when he accepted the plea deal, etc.
His letters to Cadle, his 2nd confession, all are part of his plan to be granted an appeal.
https://youtu.be/To33QQ4RHkk
NK's father has connections. The appeal was planned before CW took the plea deal:
DeleteCHRIS WATTS APPEAL - MUST SEE! CALCULATED PLAN - AN INSIGHT YOU NEVER SAW COMING!
https://youtu.be/59gUIMItYyo
Tarot Cards for the Soul
ReplyDelete1 year ago
Hi guys, I wanted to share with you an additional fact I just found in the Discovery - should be added to THIS reading! Not only did CW google the Paricutin Volcano just hours before the murders, but that same day in the morning (10:45am) he googled an additional Volcano (in Mexico as well) called Mount Colima. "He preserved an image of the volcano spewing lava and smoke".
A Come Back
1 year ago
I remember hearing that CW had looked up about these volcanoes. It struck me as odd that he was doing that. Plus the sunflower pics always made me think it was some how a way in which they communicated. It all makes sense now. I'm still wondering about NKs mother. Even though they divorced long ago I still think it odd nothing's been uncovered on her. Everything has been looked at nd gone over with a fine tooth comb. So why is it we still no nothing about NKs mother. The only thing I've ever heard of her is her mother was like Shannan nd that is how she got her father to help her. That her father hearing that Shannan was like his ex wife promted him to assist his daughter.
Angie Welch
1 year ago
When this crime was first committed and the videos were released of the interrogations, there was a young woman who stated that NK was into the occult. I am remembering several things that she said, but I just don't know who said this. It's clear that either they previously knew NK, or they are gifted with foresight. I can truthfully say that there is definitely a dark demeanor about NK, and now that the mask has shifted, we see that CW also has a darkness surrounding him. I don't understand why people choose to follow a path that is evil and will ultimately be defeated. Thanks again for these videos. I find them very intriguing.
Annette
1 year ago
There is a rumor that NKs father is a high ranking (level 30) Free Mason I watched documentaries about the secret societies including the FreeMasons and rituals are definitely a part of their secret ceremonies of which go further than 33 and become more secret and potentially more dark. If you take it further ... there is speculation that children are also used during high level rituals... I follow Teal Swan on YT and her back story is very intense & of having escaped being used in such rituals since a young age until she left at 19 ... I think there may be a possibility that NK grew up with the occult. I think people believe they are above being effected by using these dark rituals and ultimately they seek control and power over others... what is interesting is that I haven’t heard that any of her friends have come forward to give accounts as to what she is like ... her fellow students or even ex boyfriends. I heard she was previously married?? Perhaps they are all afraid of her?
Annette
Delete1 year ago
@Betty Smith I just read on FB that she has a sister. Her story is worth a lot of $$ - of course she will never tell the absolute truth. I believe that she orchestrated / instigated this whole plan and that she might have been there that night. When Ronnie was in the interrogation room and talking to CW quietly - when the 2 CBI were out of the room ...CW said to Ronnie "she wasn't supposed to be there!" along with all those 'we's'...
Rainbow Apparatus
1 year ago (edited)
Freemasonry is founded in dark esoteric/occultic practice and the hierarchy goes far beyond the 33rd degree. All those below are mere peasants blindly doing the elites work for them. Just look at their symbolism and practices I.e. initiations. They continuously reference the light and the light bearer. Well anyone that has studied theosophy or is religious and is knowledgeable of scripture knows that the light bearer is Lucifer. Google freemasonry with occult and satanism and you’ll be surprised what you can find when you dig. Is it possible the NK was familiar with these practices due to family connections possibly passed down through the generations coupled with her degree in geology? Now doesn’t it seem like the connection here just got a little more clear? Hmm
Tarot Cards for the Soul
1 year ago
Thanks Angie, and good insights too! <3 Well, I think people who follow the dark/evil path just have an inner urge to go there. I think that is CW. As he said before, with NK, "I could be myself" .... He can let out his dark side. The part of him he had to keep hidden all the time, especially with his wife.
marisha hes
1 year ago
The more you bring out the truth the more light shines on the evil to expose it. They will not get away with murder
Tarot Cards for the Soul
1 year ago
Yes, yay! marisha sweet heart, xo! That is the plan, shine the light <3 <3
Kelley The Advocate
1 year ago
I KNEW IT!! As soon as he said dark things, my mind went to demon stuff. He could be himself with her as a dark person? Awful!! The family was a sacrifice if it’s a magic thing.
Tarot Cards for the Soul
1 year ago
Right on, Kelley! It seems to be a pure power thing, like a "god" complex. These people are malignant narcissists so they get a lot of energy from doing these secret dark things.
Tarot Cards for the Soul
1 year ago
From what I am seeing in the cards, I am leaning toward he is a willing participant. This is what he means when he says "I could be myself" with NK. He can let out his dark side. He said he feels "in control".... and then of course turns around and says the murders were like something was making him do it. I don't believe that - I believe he is a wolf in sheep's clothing :/ Even when he was supposedly this "good dad" - he looks empty, and like he is "not really there"
Rita S.
1 year ago (edited)
Thank you for clearing up the question about her connection with the occult and how it was used in this horrendous murder of Shenann and her babies. A close friend of mine senses a much more darker scenerio that took place, involving the children n their deaths. Those poor babies.😥Too dark for the heart to understand. They are just pure evil. Period. What's scary is that they still walk among us, ..and not just THEM but all the other dark ones that creep around us, undetected.
https://youtu.be/h-2wKabhnGw
Shannan was "framed" in a pre-meditated way, BEFORE Tammy Lee suggested, "Did Shannan do something to the kids?"
ReplyDeleteFormer Watts family insiders and supporters provide important details. CeCe appears to have suffered brain damage.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Chriswatts/comments/lsw1ev/former_watts_family_insiders_and_supporters/
One of the important slants/theories in this video, but backed by intimate knowledge of how the Watts operate, is that it was premeditated to frame Shannan for killing the girls. What I deduced from this video is that first Chris tried to KILL Shannan with the oxy (not just cause a miscarriage), and when that failed, he planned to kill them all, frame Shannan, and live happily ever after with NK. It appears he overdosed the children with oxy but "they woke back up" and CeCe suffered in and out of consciousness before he took her to Cervi. Obviously, there is only so much writing I can do to explain the video. The information is best obtained by watching it. It DOES contain "bombshell" info. At more or less one and one half hour in is discussion about CeCe. EDIT: True Crime in Colorado gave permission for this to remain here after I learned it was a "leaked" video. Thread reported for vote manipulation.
https://youtu.be/VM-Skw_vyW8
Paul Schneider
ReplyDelete1 year ago (edited)
Somehow “redemption”, “resurrection” , “rebirth” and financial gain will find him, because he has found love of the Lord, in the “8” chet gematria. Maybe a miracle? (Really?)
Sandie N
5 months ago
I have wondered if Shanann came home and caught NK there with Chris? One creator pieced the phone records of CW & NK. Very convincing the way she did it from that Sunday to Monday. Sorry I can't think at minute the name. I know it was one of the more popular channel's.
teramelosiscool
12 days ago
so do you think he had a solid plan and would've gotten away with it if not for one or two key things going wrong? (like shanann's friend showing up at the house basically right away)
Bunnoir
12 days ago
I don’t think he had a ‘solid’ plan as such, but I do think his intention was to go back to Cervi later on mon in the Lexus & move SW body elsewhere. He was hoping that by the time ppl realised SW & the girls were gone, that he would have moved SW body & the girls bodies would well & truly into the initial stages of decomposition, accelerated by the chemicals in the oil tanks.
Bunnoir
12 days ago
Also - in general chit chat that CW had w the detectives in Wisconsin at the beginning of his Feb ‘19 interview, they were talking about how cold & icy it was in Wisconsin, CW then commented on his house in CO & mentioned about the pipes possibly freezing up in winter. Based on that comment alone, ppl started making up theories that there was something in the pipes in his house eg evidence he’d flushed &/or the pipes were going to be used to blow up the house?! 🤦🏻♀️ there are some ppl that think that every little thing CW says is him either slipping up or giving intentional clues. They comb through everything he’s said & twist & contort selective info to fit their illogical & implausible theories. The truth is, is that CW is smarter than many ppl give him credit for & he didn’t need to be spoon fed a murder plot & plan, or led through it by accomplices. CW is a manipulative, lying, sneaky, insidiously nasty & selfish human being.
Alexandra Nikolas
2 weeks ago
Poor Shan’ann had to deal with these people for 8 years 🌸
Jewels of Thought
2 weeks ago
And THAT Alexandra was the thought that brought my first tear for this crime. Late one night I had been doing a deep dive into this case. I was reading the document dump and began to read Sandy's letter. I had the sudden realization that Shanann did not have a chance. Later with the original Nutgate recording by Mel and Kel my sadness for Shanann deepened to awareness of something feeling like "evil." Listening to these 2 young women cackle and laugh about petty actions of a woman now murdered with her 3 babies...essentially her DNA wiped off the face of humanity....I had a sense of the intense isolation Shanann must have felt.
Shanann was so close to her Dad and so much love with her mother and Frankie. In contrast, to the isolation and hurtful games Chris experienced with the Watts' Clan. Shanann did not have a chance. I truly wept. That is unusual for me to do related to others' lives. I keep perspective. There was something about the image of this loving, happy woman and her sweet children being so absolutely hated by these vile people that it touched me. I think it is obvious that many have experienced the same sensations. It would explain why people are so intent on standing up for Shanann's reputation. This was truly a young woman in need of protection.
Blue Skye
Delete2 weeks ago
@Jewels of Thought you’ve just summed up why many still follow CW case. I do but, only periodically for my own sanity. I believe a lot of people can’t give it up because like a lot of us, we feel poor Shanann didn’t stand a chance against the evil that lurks with CW, the Watts family & cohorts + hanger ons.
K Miller
2 weeks ago
@Jewels of Thought YES this is an act of evil by CW. His mother is even more evil. All those who persecute Shanann's memory are also Evil. We will all be known by our works. Anyone jumping on this save Chris and hate Shanann bandwagon better take a look at themselves closely. Mama Ruszek is a very Godly woman. Maybe this is test of sorts from the Almighty One. Evil over came Chris no doubt, he let the darkness in. It destroyed his life. Are you CW supporters willing to make that same sacrifice of your own family and life? This crime is off the charts regarding typical human behavior. Nothing but an evil monster could do this. Nothing but an evil monster could support this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_LVXskNxpU
Alexis Ferraro
2 weeks ago (edited)
Thank you for clarifying with a statement. Much respect, man. Too many rumors in the Watts case. My observation from afar is that the entire Watts family are total narcissists. They triangulate, manipulate, play one against each other and discard by different family member using amateurs like you said instead of lawyers and experts like you. You'd think Ronnie would learn after not lawyering up during the first confession. They've created a world of Chris apologist and spew hate toward murdered victims. You are too ethical to work with this unstable family and this BS. KK, J4J and Lana are bottom feeders and you're right not to be associated with them. Would love you do a tell all on your experience trying to help Chris and dealing with his family so people would wise up and know them for who they are stop wasting their time and the pity party that he is some kind of victim. I remember J4J thought she was going to paint you in a bad light with her "expose" but all she did was made herself look like a fool and ousted herself as a leaker. Well done!
Unmasked
2 weeks ago
🙌🏼 It's never been about "finding the truth". We learned that the hard way... It's all about the 💰 and deceiving the public. It's just a disgusting dog and pony show. No thanks..
The Critical Kay
Delete2 weeks ago (edited)
The Watts and Kelly Crozier pulled away from me when they realized I was too smart to continue to tote their ridiculous theories and I didn’t want a seat on the “bash Shanann train”. It was KELLY who came up with the insane theories about NA and I know this because she shared them with me. I looked at her claims and found them nonsensical. Kelly and JenniFER tried seducing me into teaming back up with JenniFER several months ago and at the time I couldn’t understand why. Now I know why. They needed me to add some credibility and articulate for them their buffet of lies and conspiracy theories. I said no thanks and told them both to go to hell. Kelly once told me she wanted the Watts to be “set for life”. Make no mistake about it, THAT is all this is about. Money, money and more money. This isn’t about Chris. This isn’t about justice. This isn’t about truth. It is about achieving a payday for Ron and Cindy.
The Critical Kay
2 weeks ago
@WoWza if I was going to write a book about this case I would have done it by now, Kelly Crozier. Your pathetic attempts to make the Watts rich off the backs of two dead children and a pregnant woman have just begun to be exposed. Buckle up.
T J
1 week ago (edited)
People like the arrogant Watts have a need to feel superior. The way they know best how to do that is by tearing others down. Shanann, unfortunately, was a target of their hatred from day one. She never stood a chance. Cindy was the mother-in-law from hell where Shanann was always “damned if you do and damned if you don’t” with her. They haven’t stopped their smear campaign against her either even in death! It must be horrible to live with so much hatred in your heart! I don’t believe for one second that the Watts have found God for God tells us to forgive and to love one another... not to hate.
Juanita Richards
5 days ago
Cindy didn't care about those grandchildren because they were Shannans children and she treated them very different to Jamie's children. Did you know that Zav Girl uncovered mental illness in Ronnie Watts family history? She was given all the info and back up data by a Wats cousin. There were suicides, Bipolar disorder, depression, domestic violence, alcoholism and one of his grandmothers shot her husband dead after years of drunken abuse.
https://youtu.be/jXTmlI5IIQI
Chris's plan to kill his family when Shanann arrived home from Arizona was formulated after 4:33 PM on August 10th because if he had planned it before then he would have let Ronnie Facetime with the girls at that time (he wouldn't have to worry about Bella telling Shanann, for obvious reasons).
ReplyDeleteFrom the discovery file (page 1916/2111):
On August 10th at 4:33 PM, via text, Ronnie asked Chris: "lf she's (Shanann) gone you think we could FaceTime with the girls tonight? Or do you think that's a good idea, don't want to get anything started." Chris replied that he feared Bella would tell Shanann. Ronnie responded: "That's what l'm afraid of. lf she finds out she would probably have a fit. Don't want to make things worse." Chris agreed.
According to Chris, when Shanann travelled she didn't call to talk to the girls because it would cause them to get upset (crying for her to come home), so there was no risk of Bella telling her mother anything before Shanann returned home from Arizona.
According to Chris in a letter to Cheryln Cadle, he knew when he put the girls to bed on August 12th that that would be the last time he would ever tuck them in.
So, apparently on August 10th he hadn't yet made the decision to kill his entire family on August 12th (the girls first and then Shanann after she arrived home from Arizona, which was after midnight, so August 13th). If he planned it already, he would have let Ronnie Facetime with the girls on August 10th because there wouldn't have been an opportunity for Bella to tell her mother about it.
So, was the plan to kill Shanann, Bella and Cece finalized during date night with Nikki Kessinger on August 11th or during the 111-minute phone call (9:28-11:19 PM) between Chris and Nikki Kessinger on August 12th (she called him).
Betz
ReplyDeleteJANUARY 29, 2019 AT 2:47 AM
Posted below 👇🏼 A comment from someone who knew Chris and his family from childhood.
I’d also like to say, look at the number of friends Shan’ann had looking for her mere hours after she was perceived missing. Her friend that came from Hawaii to Colorado to help care for her and the kids after her neck surgery. She was here for weeks. Weird people don’t maintain friendships like Shan’ann had… It’s mind boggling to me that you believe you know her better than people who actually knew her, just from viewing fb videos. The evidence is in the actions, not the words, dear. It’s outrageous to see people defaming the victim of murder. Actually, it’s sick. Truly sick. You’ll notice there’s not many of you. That’s not because you’re of superior intelligence. Quite the opposite.
“You have to understand that Chris grew up in a family with a distant father, the whole house was a ball of tension, everything had to be perfect.
THEY WASHED AND REUSED PLASTIC STRAWS
Let that sink in….. He kept his room immaculate. Everything had a place and it HAD TO BE IN THAT PLACE. He had power ranger figures, they had to be set up in a specific and certain way on his bedside table. He had bunkbeds but no bunkmate. Sometime he slept top bunk sometimes he slept bottom. I have no idea why. I DO know, however, that he was obsessed with sex from a very very young age. He was very young, about 9 or 10, when I was 8, I think. I was born in 86. Anyway, he was like one year older than me and we played in his backyard all the time. He had a giant weeping willow tree that was full of ticks. And he would chase me around lashing me with pieces of willow full of ticks laughing his ass off about how they’re biting me and drinking my blood. There are many more sick things I’ve heard him say, deep in my memories, deep down where I kept things for many years. I know not who he’s the bitch of now but this is Karma time….. SIMPLY SUBLIME. I know one thing…. one thing he said to me that always stuck: “I love the way you cry”.
Betz
JANUARY 29, 2019 AT 2:02 AM
Why is it creepy that she kept furniture and art that she already had? That’s not creepy. It’s creepy to see people defaming a deceased women who can’t defend herself. It’s creepy to see people blaming the victim For her own murder, like the psychopath murder. Abusers blame the victims, Every. Single. Time. It’s bizarre to see the public ignore what we known beyond a shadow of a doubt, and pretend they’re confused by words from a psychopath, his family and people he influenced, ONLY! That’s creepy
Betz
JANUARY 29, 2019 AT 3:28 AM
Call the children’s hospital she worked for… Children’s hospitals are well known for hiring career criminals and most offer rehabilitation programs during shifts, especially for felons. I wouldn’t be surprised if Chris isn’t on work release at the same hospital soon. Wow! lol
Betz
DeleteJANUARY 29, 2019 AT 3:15 AM
He doesn’t look like Chris at all. You don’t even know the charges you claim exist, yet you post this idiocy in defense of what? Chris confessing to exactly what the CBI told him happened? That was strategic. They wanted to recover the bodies for evidence. “Did Shan’ann do something, and you’re protecting her”.
There is no way Chris could have held his children’s hands above their heads and shoved them down in crude oil unless he murdered them. NO WAY! A normal person couldn’t dispose of their deceased dog the way he did his children, and if you believe they could, perhaps something is wrong with you.
That person showed no emotion for his deceased family, until he confessed and knew he was caught. He couldn’t stay in that house, as he said, because he was haunted by his actions. If you listen to the man talking, he tells on himself every step of the way. He’s the dumbest psychopath in history of the planet. In the end he confessed, and if you are sensible, you realize the “deal” was no deal at all. He confessed because he’s guilty.
So, you posted a charge on Frankie. What did he do? Give an 18 year old alcohol? A 17 year old? Did he buy it and they drank beer? Do you even know? You didnt post enough information for anyone to play judge and jury, yet they are. You prey on the simply minded. It’s a misdemeanor charge! And Shanann, 15 charges? It’s shocking that she was hired by a children’s hospital, being a career criminal and all.. Genuis!
https://shakedowntitle.com/2018/09/30/dirty-south-customs-shananns-dirty-little-secret/
Lynette Callich
ReplyDeleteAnother great video, Heather! It’s definitely important to understand the company dynamics and all that was going on at the time of the murders. Anadarko could not afford bad press at this time. Optics were everything as they were trying to lockdown the sale. I appreciate that your videos are concise and spot on. You don’t spend 2 or 3 hours dragging out 2 or 3 minutes of information like some creators. Blessings!
Christine Isabel
I took an interest in the company, Anadarko early on in this case and read up on the Firestone explosion and the families it effected. Along with Anadarko being heavily publicized with that explosion, and payout to the families, they were in the middle of a sale during the CW murders, , NK was sleeping with CW and possibly an executive of the same company, Anadarko was suppose to heighten their security measures after the Firestone Explosion and failed to do so, they bring onboard NK to enact safety measures, oil companies in Colorado also heavily financially support bills that are in the senate for a pay to play, especially Anadarko, this was also a political case, and the DA IMO was told along with other LE to sweep it under the rug, get someone to confess and immediately end the case.
Nicky Bee
I feel it’s important to mention in response to the last part of your comment, that I was on to those involved long before I knew there was even a following about this on YouTube. For me personally, it’s not about being entertained, it’s about finding the truth of what really happened, who did what, and bringing justice to this case to finally close it once and for all so we can move on to another case.
On the other hand, I know exactly what you mean by that because a lot of people are here just for the sole purpose of being entertained or wanting a piece of the pie.
Which is sad. Because it turns this into a circus, which it already was... it’s just worse now.
They fast tracked him straight to prison without further investigating this.
UnMurdered
DeleteAbsolutely, no bearing on the crime at all. This comes into play with the reason why the investigation by authorities was completed so quickly.
I have proof [of Anadarko being involved in the cover up]. I just haven’t shown you yet.
I’ll be explaining more soon.
Mary Lopez
Anadarko, of course, did NOT want the bad press at a time like that (when there's about to be an acquisition made). Coming from Houston, I started working for an O&G company like Anadarko (equal in size/value) right out of college. Started consulting after I had my first child, then started a consulting firm for myself. I am VERY knowledgable about the job that Nk had and the job that CW had. I do think, IMO, that Anadarko needed to cover themselves due to negative press. I feel like Anadarko was very close to the state and local government when it came to lobbying, etc. The O&G world is a small version of the "good old boy network". It's getting better everyday, but that's a fact. So, Yes, I firmly believe that to understand this case in its entirety, we have to look into some pretty interesting places and review some pretty interesting motives in this case.
ms Leah
She didn’t have money issues, she didn’t even want to be well off. So money can’t be a reason for her. She just wanted him out of That house - she was jealous and couldn’t stand the thought of them under the same roof. This affair ramped up when shanann was away , she wasn’t used to her being around Chris or Chris being around her. Shed constantly worry they’d connect again and she DID NOT want that no matter what she says about that.
Chris was twisted and greedy and too gutless to leave shanann and look as though he abandoned his pregnant wife and two girls. Very superficial . He’d rather be poor victim, get sympathy over his missing family and then eventually money, the house and the girl. He truly put those girls in a place no one would EVER think to look. They didn’t even believe him when he told the authorities. As for shananns body he was going back , to do god knows what, maybe burn and bury the ashes of the burn, not sure he could chop her up tbh. Reason he was ok with it being shallow and marked the spot - she wasn’t going to be there long.
https://youtu.be/ly43xuwJ4cU
Both Denver and Boulder, Colorado, are major Satanic centers whose activities have, at various times, been under investigation by Jefferson and Denver county authorities as well as the FBI and others. A witness of these activities came fourth and gave testimony of two crack babies that were first taken from their parents and given to foster parents. Later they were taken from the foster parents by Denver SOCIAL SERVICES after the husband was murdered in very strange circumstances and were given to a single woman who had turned up out of nowhere after the murder and offered to be a nanny to the children.
ReplyDeleteThe witness claims watching the ritual sacrifice of both babies, twins, on Halloween, in a sequestered area in the mountains outside of Boulder with the Ramseys, the Ramseys' close wealthy friend and associate (her controller), DA Alex Hunter, Lt. Governor Gail Shoettler, Lou Smith and several others 'very high up' in Colorado politics, linked directly to the Governor's office, being present.
The Satanic ring centered in Denver connects into Boulder and Sedalia, Colorado as well as other communities such as Sedona, Arizona, Omaha Nebraska, and many others.
https://educate-yourself.org/cn/jonbentramseysatanicritual.shtml
It is clear from the statements of both Detective Colson and Char Blazer that the Boulder authorities were very interested in a connection between the death of JonBenet Ramsey and what appears, astonishingly, to be organized pedophilia on a national level, perhaps with a criminal Government license.
DeleteThe William Morris Agency has close ties to NBC News. This Agency is responsible for placing the likes of stooges Tom Brokow and Brian Williams at NBC News. It was NBC which broke the current JonBenet Ramsey story.
The William Morris Agency also represents up and coming child models and had solicited a contract from the Ramseys for the 'services' of JonBenet. It should also be noted that in early 1996 the Denver Police had been investigating a Denver Child-Porno Protection ring linked to and run by none other than the Wm. Morris Agency and FBI Div. #5 (FBI Special/Black Ops).
John Ramsey ran a company called Access Graphics with offices in the Philippines, Amsterdam, Holland and Denver, Colorado. Access Graphics did business with the Wm. Morris Agency and had service contracts directly with what is commonly known as Iran Contra.
Access Graphics major bank accounts were parked at the noted Iran Contra money-laundry Silverado Savings and Loan and administered by none other than Director of Silverado, Neil Bush, George W. Bush's brother. Ramsey was also on a list of witnesses never subpoenaed by former Iran Contra Prosecutor Lawrence Walsh.
It can now be reported that Ramsey had either knowingly, or unknowingly, pimped his daughter out as a prostitute to the Wm. Morris Agency, who were taking these child 'models' and using them to provide sexual services for pedophiles in Government, Industry and so on, in addition to their modeling shows (shows often displayed in video footage in the many news specials on JonBenet's murder).
John Ramsey must stay silent given his position as a Bush-Clinton crime syndicate asset or risk having the truth come out about this entire, horrid affair. Something he has done quite well up to this juncture.
Search warrants also turned up nude photos of the Ramsey children - and not baby pictures.
In the three years prior to her death, Jonenet made 33 trips to the pediatrician, diagnosis was "yeast infections". Yeast infections for a child of four to six years old? I've been told that is not possible.
https://educate-yourself.org/cn/jonbentramseysatanicritual.shtml
we’re referring to the evening that NK, CW and we believe 2 others met at a particular Lazy Dog Restaurant and devised the plan for the murders. We are focused on this fact because CW admits more than once, if he never would have went to the Lazy Dog his life would have taken a different trajectory. So the event that took place there was a life changer for him.
ReplyDeleteIt’s now believed the chunks of hair missing from NK were caused from Bella putting up a fight and yanking her hair out! There were hundreds of strands of hair reportedly found in Chris’s truck.
Narcissist tell truth in their lies. You just need to learn how they speak. When he says he was framed I believe he was saying he was working to frame SW, starting with the letter that his family has.
How Beautiful was that password on her phone!!!!? Nico’s due date!!!!!! 31 O1 19
the neighbor boy that got the license plate, did that come out in FOIA ? was that owner verified?
What about the toilets being dry at CWs house that was truly strange. I feel like there was a second plan-addressed for the house too be blown up while Shannan and the two little girls were sleeping. That if the explosion didn’t happen at the site that the house was a secondary source. Shannans Jean pants she was wearing that morning are missing in the walls of the basement with both CW and NKs DNA all over them… The jeans will never be revealed. R.I.P Shannan BELLE CC and unborn NICO. justices will be revealed soon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onSclvPTdhA
Do you believe NK went to Denver Museum w/family on 8/12?
ReplyDeletePosted byu/bedhead4465 at reddit
NK said she went to the Denver Museum of Nature & Science - "me and him and my, my, m... stepmother and my sister went to uh, the museum..."
She said she went to the gym then met up with them. Below is her phone log for the entire day Sunday 8/12:
8:46am - CW- Thornton - 30 mins
11:30am - Jim - Northglenn - 1 min
5:24pm - Jim - Thornton - 2 mins
9:28pm - CW - Thornton - 111 mins
No phone calls between her and her sister or her father. No phone ping in Denver either. NK talked to her sister Stephanie frequently so it's weird that they didn't call each other to coordinate the meet-up.
For comparison purposes, here are examples from Sun Jul 22 and Sat Aug 4, which indicate NK travelled to Denver:
Sunday, July 22
7:13am - Stephanie - Thornton - 4 mins
7:32am - Stephanie - Thornton - 5 mins
8:11am - Stephanie - Denver - 1 min
8:18am - Stephanie - Denver - 1 min
8:19am - Stephanie - Denver - 2 mins
8:22am - Stephanie - Denver - 2 mins
She talked to her sister six times in 70 minutes, 5 minutes here, 1 minute there.
Saturday, August 4
7:34am - Dwayne - Denver - 26 mins
8:36am - spa - Denver - 2 mins
9:06am - Jim - Aurora - 5 mins
10:54am - Dwayne - Aurora - 2 mins
12:58am - Dwayne - Thornton - 5 mins
The last call of the previous day (August 3) pinged in Denver so it looks like she stayed overnight there, possibly at her parents' house or at Jim's. As she travelled from Denver to Thornton, she talked to her father three times.
Isn't it reasonable to assume then she must've called either Stephanie or Dwayne before or/and after meeting up with her family in Denver?
Did the LE confirmed this alibi?!?
llquestionable
Great post. Maybe they went...but on August 4th, not THAT Sunday 12th.
And there's not even a phone call asking where to meet up.
bedhead4465
DeleteFrom 'I'm leaving the gym now' to 'I'm on my way' to 'I'm here. Where are you?', there should be at least three phone calls. She and her father probably lied with wild abandon just to get a momentary reprieve. If LE had probed them further on it, they would've pleaded amnesia: *Oh! Did I say Aug 12? We were all stressed out and confused. It was actually a week earlier that we went to the museum. Sorry!".
bedhead4465
On July 14, CW and NK went out. NK picked him up at his place. Even then, she called him from Thornton then called him again 20-30 mins later in Frederick. I cannot imagine her not calling her family as she was meeting them somewhere in Denver.
We saw how stupid and neglectful the fingerprint report was. I mean, check them against CW first! If they're CWs, you don't have to run them against the state database. Why do they not have his prints? Tammy too. Of all things she could've asked him in Wisconsin, she asked him what kind of basement it was. That info is in the Discovery, not to mention she should've been to his house in the first place. Considering these examples, I don't think they bothered to check the alibi of the Kessingers.
crickettail
You’re right. I don’t believe they checked anyone’s alibi. It’s mind boggling and so frustrating that this was the “investigation” of THREE murdered HUMANS!!! What in the actual fudge!
How is this acceptable??? How was there not a proper (or even close) investigation into these murders when the mistress was as dishonest, shady, apathetic and uncooperative as I’ve ever seen?!?
Starkville
Cricket, I always bring this up, but they did a huge amount/degree of investigation into his claim that he didn’t know how to perform CPR on children. They hunted down and interviewed the actual instructors! They did the same for the doctor appointment SW missed. They did a lot to investigate the lawyer Hamza and Trent Bolte and Amanda McMahon.
They didn’t even check the mistress’s alibi?!?!
crickettail
Yeah, it’s truly mind boggling. They didn’t interview NK’s family members (aside from DK doing them that favor and making it easy on them by coming in “voluntarily” lol).
The way the whole “what did you do on Sunday (8/12)” went down and NK’s “fogginess” about what she did the day and night before the murders and the phone call Sunday night that ended just before SW’s plane was set to land - that left her brain completely, apparently - but she forbade them to even call Jimbo to verify her whereabouts on Monday - they didn’t call/interview any of these people??? Yeah they talked to Trent, Damien, some guy named Joe she called - but not the people she said she was with??? Jim, stepmom and sister??
Alrighty then.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WattsCaseEvidence/comments/ehwm12/do_you_believe_nk_went_to_denver_museum_wfamily/
Dead Sea Scrolls - pictures and secret messages?
ReplyDeletePosted byu/llquestionable at reddit
I've been thinking a lot about the "Dead Sea scrolls". No idea what they were talking about for her to say "you can't buy the scrolls, LOL".
But it looks to me like there's some secret code pictures going on
And that the plan to go along with this started early in July, after 14th (coincidentally, a day she can't be sure she was at his house)
Look at the pictures CW took (why take pictures?)
---14th July----
They go to a museum, SW calls many times during the day and he doesn't answer or calls back, yet he talks to NK on the phone 3 times. It's the second time NK goes to his house after a fight and a tantrum and a long conversation about them.
1814 - he searches Dioptase (which is a mineral used for forgiveness, for not being angry)
---15th July------------
11:46 - Pictures of new work boots and a prairie near CERVI 319, Roggen (equipment for BOTH and choosing location with her)
12:50 - Pictures of the basement layout 3x
16:35 - Pictures of basement (basement: Where the dogs alerted, lots of movement is captured by the security system.
---16th July-----------
0835 hours: Picture from an Anadarko Corporate Office in Platteville of a sunflower near what appears to be his work truck.
The plan was being designed. The tell tale sign is the new boots and the prairie
----9th August --------(3 days before)
11:44 - Sends SW a picture of a "dead" doll covered with a sheet" (after SW have sent him an ultrasound picture at 10:06)
----12th August -----
1045 and 1656: pictures of volcanos (it's today? Exploding? almost?)
17:00 Facetime FR
--- Time of deaths - setting the plan
1720 (calls to go to Cervi)
1724 NK calls Jim
1726 - searches Dead Sea Srolls - about to kill?
--- After/around time of deaths
1809 - coworker says ok
1844- They're DEAD. Pic of the TEMPERATURE of his fridge (basement?) (did he hide them there?)
1847 - FOUR chicken breasts - 4 chicken breasts? (meal prep or dinner for 2 or for 3?)
1946 - by the way: (SW seems to find weird that the kids were already in bed "they must be exhausted"...)
https://www.reddit.com/r/WattsCaseEvidence/comments/ej7185/dead_sea_scrolls_pictures_and_secret_messages/
Dead Sea Scrolls Secret Messages II - NK involved?
DeletePosted byu/llquestionable at reddit
After some discussion with crickettail and Starkville on the "Loading Them II" post
and after realizing FR facetimed the kids at 17:00 CO, (FR said 19:00 NC)
The pictures being messages ...kind of makes more sense
Timeline
10:45 Before the party searches volcanos
16:30 Comes from the party, kids take a shower,
1656: pictures of volcanos (Exploding? Going to do it?)
17:07 CW calls FR - facetimes and sees the kids - they're eating cold pizza and dessert (leftovers - not even bothered cooking for them or last meal for a child?)
----------- (I think at least CC is killed about now) --------
1720 (calls Roberts so CW can go alone to Cervi 319) - damage control or planning?
17:24 NK calls JIM (get ready?)
1726 searches Dead Sea Srolls - He's about to kill? Greenlight (Dead - Time do do it? It's done?)
(there is no evidence that NK is at the museum today, as bedhead4465 shows and originally here
1809 coworker confirms - CW will be alone at CERVI319
---- There are some signs that CW doesn't know how the kids really died, so he may have called his helpers to do it with --
1844 Kids are DEAD. Picture of the TEMPERATURE of his fridge - Are the kids in the fridge or it means I'm waiting for you? *K9 alerted in the basement under the staircase where there is a fridge
1847 He is cooking, takes pic of FOUR chicken breasts - Bette confirms he's cooking but doesn't hear or see the kids.
(4 breasts - Jim, NK and CW? Or meal prep for the week? Clearly waiting for something. There's still 4 hours before SW arrives - supposedly - but he makes no effort to take the kids to a site? Or someone will come to take the kids to the cervi? Each one in each tank?
------
21:28 CW and NK talk on the phone
23:19 CW and NK end call - SW should be home and just now CW reads her messages: flight arrives 2 am
---
1:48 SW arrives
04:23 Activity on main floor vivint (if there's "no activity on the main floor from 1:48-04:23", then there is activity after 04:23)
--- Now it's the loading (or not) and cervi time ---
06:15 NK pinged Frederick
07:18 "CW Takes picture of his laptop screen presumably sitting in his truck" (they have a thumbnail so it was sent) - finished. Leaves the blankets near the sheet by the grave (what was suppose to happen next? why was the evidence here, if he bothered to dump the rest of the clothes in a dumpster at BLACK MESA RD, (GPS and police search)
https://www.reddit.com/r/WattsCaseEvidence/comments/el71lo/dead_sea_scrolls_secret_messages_ii_nk_involved/
bedhead4465
DeleteNK said her father, stepmother and sister had brunch while she was in the gym. She joined them later in Denver. You would think she and her family members exchanged some phone calls to coordinate their meet-up. There's nothing. For comparion, I looked up her phone logs on several other days where it seemed she went to Denver. She would call the same person, like her sister for example, multiple times until she got there, before and after the excursion. There were only four calls on the log on 8/12 to and from Jim and CW. No calls to and from her family members.
The other thing is that the interview happened only 4 days after the alleged museum trip. Both NK and her father struggled to remember what they did that day. It's odd. The Dead Sea Scrolls exhibit was very popular and it was encouraged to get the tickets in advance. Otherwise they would've waited a long time in line or worse, the show could've been sold out. For four people to be able to stroll in leisurely after brunch, it looks like they had consciously prepared and planned for that trip. It should be memorable. How can they go like, oh let me think let me think, what did we do? did I hang out with you~ hee hee ha ha.
I'm thinking they did go to the dead sea scrolls show at some point, but not that weekend.
llquestionable
She likely went the weekend before, it's in a link in the post. There's no evidence she went there that Sunday.
llquestionable
get the tickets in advance
And no one asked them for the tickets, or went to the museum to check CCTV...just took that "memorable event, hum?" as an alibi.
llquestionable
It's so weird isn't it? 2018, XXI century. Thousands and thousands of murders have been linked to love triangles, jealous lovers...and no one bothered to check her? Oh no, she's a victim, she helped the police - whaaaat?
bedhead4465
Yup, CCTV at the museum and its parking lot. Credit card transaction records if applicable. Check out the place they said they had brunch.
On Fridays, isn't it customary to ask coworkers "Do you have any plans for the weekend?" and on Mondays "How was your weekend?". They should've talked to her coworkers too, whether she said anything about the museum. One of them might've said, oh yeah I think it was a couple weeks ago in July (for example).
llquestionable
Interview the rest of her family...do their stories match...nothing. How come they don't want us to think this is fishy as hell?
Jan-Thurgood
I’m surprised no pictures were taken from this event. Usually people that get together take pictures when they go to the museum for a thing such as this . You would think that the police would have asked for proof of this. Security cameras in the museum would have shown NK and family in the museum. Why did they take such a liars word and not double check anything she said?
llquestionable
Why would CW document this? He has no facebook to post volcanos, fridge, grilling chicken, laptop screen, work boots, prairies near Cervi...the only person he sent pictures to was...his new friend
bedhead4465
DeleteThe partially recovered texts Chris and Nichol exchanged contain the words and phrases like "the dead sea scrolls", "IMAX" and "you're having fun with your folks".
Based on this, you would assume that NK and her family 1) watched Jerusalem 3D on IMAX and 2) toured the Dead Sea Scrolls exhibit.
It means they bought three types of tickets for museum admission, movie and special exhibition. They're all separate.
If they didn't buy tickets online in advance, which was highly recommended esp. for the Dead Sea Scrolls, they would've spent a lot of time waiting in line.
Add the parking time to the trouble. I read reviews and many people complain about not enough parking space.
Not to mention it takes a lot of time to view the main attractions themselves, the movie and the scrolls.
In sum, the trip to the museum cannot be some chance visit you make just because you happen to be in the neighborhood. If they did go, they must've planned.
It should be memorable.
I posted this before but here it is:
NK's phone activity for the entire day 8/12/2018
8:46am - CW- Thornton - 30 mins
11:30am - Jim - Northglenn - 1 min
No communication between NK and her family
5:24pm - Jim - Thornton - 2 mins
9:28pm - CW - Thornton - 111 mins
The museum opened from 9am to 5pm Sunday.
No calls to her family member as she leaves for Denver? They were to meet up in a busy area.
Once she was in the museum, she wouldn't have much time to stop and text back and forth with Charotte and Chris but that's what she did during this time.
No phone calls either as she drove back home.
Why would she lie about Sunday? She could've just said she went to the gym, came home and took a nap. That would be consistent with her phone log. Nobody had died at that point so why?
Two possibilties:
She lied to CW about going to the museum.
The whole message thread was a set-up that was agreed upon with CW. The whole "hey, museum! IMAX, the dead sea scroll! fun fun fun!" was just a show and CW was also aware of it. I can't think up why though. Maybe to show they're very innocent? Like, look at him, he was at a party with his kids, Everything was normal! Look at her having fun with her family! It was part of image building activity? I don't know.
llquestionable
But the problem is that it doesn't look like she was at the museum on 8/12.
This. This is very weird. She definitely does not look like she met her family this day. While on 4th she talked to her parents, sister, pinged in Denver, and also called a spa. So this is the weekend that fits the "I skipped brunch and went to the gym (spa)"
So why was she talking about the Dead Sea scrolls on that afternoon if she likely wasn't there?
Also, he's talking to himself almost all the time, because she deleted her part of the conversation, except some innocuous stuff and the "Are we bad people" (oh, I'm so good, mr koback)
bcclm
DeleteI think pictures as code are a very real possibility with those two. I was stuck on him sending her a picture of a sunflower (I realize it might not have been a traditional sunflower, but close) right after he disposed of his family. Especially once I saw the photo of that troll squatting in a sunflower field.
They seemed to communicate through song lyrics a lot as well, so I looked up song lyrics related to sunflowers. While I was doing that, I found that sunflowers are a symbol of loyalty. Seemed striking to me as he sent her that photo once he’d eliminated his family (supposedly for her), and also right around the time she asked him to look up the lyrics to Battery.
Bettyourlife
Her memory is very weird. Super detailed for stupid stuff like menus and "dialing in macros" but for major activities, long convos before murders, zip.
crickettail
I’ve always thought that possibly the truck pulled/parked where it was (and NOT in the garage) may have been intentional/strategically situated as an added obstruction (including the tree and Nate’s vehicles) and, his “loading” was a decoy - obstruction and decoy to something else going on on the far side. It’s possible that he was well aware of Bette’s rigid schedule- leaves at 5:15 every morning, returns at 7am.
CW came out and moved the truck EXACTLY at the same time Bette was leaving. She was gone by the time all the “loading” took place. He pulled off and left an hour and 15 minutes before she was due to return.
Bette even remarked that she saw his truck lights on when she was pulling off at 5:15 and that it was “unusual.”
I think he knew her schedule and what Nate’s camera could see (and NOT see). The placement of his truck in the driveway, and the timing of the “loading” of his truck was strategic.
The Lexus was to be moved later, and I bet that if NK were part of the plan/planning- the plan was for HER to enter the Lexus unseen from the garage and pull it out of the driveway. No one would be able to make out that it wasn’t SW.
If NK threw on a pair of SW’s sunglasses and tucked her long hair into the neck opening of her top... it would appear to be the same length as Shanann’s hair. Who would be able to tell the difference from that grainy, far away video! It would have worked! It fit in with the “Shan’ann went to a friend’s with the kids” story.
I think CW’s change of clothes and his new work boots found in SW’s trunk were to change into after taking/moving the car, leaving the old clothes/boots in their place, in the Lexus- along with SW’s phone, purse and her suitcase full of clothes that was also moved from the bedroom to the basement on the two days after the murders- captured on LE body cam footage. I read or saw that that multi colored suitcase (first seen in the master bedroom on the 13th - then seen NOT in the master bedroom, but in the BASEMENT, on the 14th) ended up found in SW’s Lexus after it was towed in by LE to be searched by LE/CSI. I’ve been trying to find the link where I saw or read that the suitcase ended up in the trunk of the Lexus. Anyone else seen that??
I think he was going to torch the Lexus. NA foiled the plan. And remember how annoyed NK was when talking about NA and her 911 call to LE, in “less than 24 hours.” Veryyyyy interesting, me thinks!
Makes sense to me!
I meant the Lexus was to be moved/possibly torched, sometime later Monday afternoon/evening. Like, that was the plan before NA came over. They didn’t get to execute part 2 of the plan - the getting rid of her car and her stuff. They thought no one would have questioned her whereabouts so soon and they thought they had plenty of time (24 hours).
Starkville
Oh, but in her written statement to police, NK says:
“Looking back on everything I am so glad that Nicole [sic] showed up that day to check on her friend”
bedhead4465
DeleteGrrr do you remember how pissed off she sounded: Nikki called the khiaps (x2), why would she call the cops? What role does she play in this situation? There was absolutely no reason for her to be irritated either before or after the revelation. She even said she thought Shannan was hiding in N. Atkinson's place and Nicholas was busy pilfering Shanann's toiletry. She should've found it amusing then because SW, NA and her son were gonna eventually get in trouble.
Starkville
Oh, yes. And she was very curious about NA, asking questions about them: had Chris ever met the husband, why didn’t NA like CW... like, why would she even care about Shanann’s friend or her husband? She wanted to know everything, that stalker. (This is from her 9/4 written statement to LE)
https://www.reddit.com/r/WattsCaseEvidence/comments/eky6m3/loading_them_ii/
bedhead4465
The 111-min phone call & NK's alibi on Sunday night
NK had an incoming call from CW at 9:28pm on Sunday 8/12. The call lasted for 111 mins until 11:19pm.
Despite the length of the call, NK insisted that she couldn't remember anything about the convo. The only thing she revealed is that she heard TV in the background.
So I wondered, maybe they really didn't talk at all and that's why she couldn't say anything about the call.
I've seen people speculating that CW and NK turned their phones on just for alibis' sake. They didn't talk. CW went about doing whatever he was doing while NK was driving to Frederick.
I had thought it was impossible because it seemed she was in her apt in Thorton per her Verizon phone log.
The "Origination" column on your bill always indicates your location (the cell tower nearest to you) at the time of the call. On her phone log, the origination for that 111-min call is shown to be Thorton.
However, I got curious about what it really means for a moving user. For example, if NK received the call in Thornton but ended it in Frederick, what would the phone log say on the origination column? Would it say Thornton or Frederick?
I looked at her phone bill and concluded that the origination column on the Verizon bill indicates the cell tower engaged in the beginning of the call. "Thornton" on her phone bill therefore, doesn't guarantee that she was in Thorton at the end of the 111-min call. It only means she was in Thornton when she received the call.
bedhead4465
SW was scheduled to land at 23:25. They ended the call at around 23:20.
SW called and texted CW throughout the evening. She even directed him to call Addy. He handled all that before calling NK at 21:28. The departure was 21:45. I think he figured SW would be busy boarding by then and she would stop checking on him.
So it looks like CW started and ended the call around SW's flight. SW updated him about the change of schedule at 21:45. I'm not an iPhone user but aren't you able to receive text messages while on call? He was conscious of SW's schedule and he would've checked what SW said. However, he acknowledged her TM only after the call... which makes me wonder, maybe he was away from the phone the whole time.
crickettail
DeleteYes on iPhone,you can receive AND VIEW text messages while you’re on a call.
bedhead4465
I think he was very mindful of SW's schedule and mood. He would've answered the call and checked the message if he had the phone in his hand.
llquestionable
And the last time she called him and he didn't answer he ran home (of course, then NK was upset...). So he would probably not ignore her. If he wanted to ignore her, because he knew he was going to kill her, he could keep ignoring her until she got home. Like the credit card. So what, right? He would simply see the message and ignore her. But he didn't. He apologized and said he was sleeping.
What the hell was going on in that house at that time? Where were the kids? What was that 111-minute call about?
bedhead4465
If the LE had investigated NK fully, they would've been able to track her phone's movement or the lack thereof, during that call. The phone bill only identifies the cell tower at the start of the call but Verizon should have data about every cell tower used throughout the call.
One more thing! We don't know her office hours at Anadarko but she said she clocked out at 3:00pm on 8/13 and it takes about 45 mins to get home, right? If it was as usual, we can then assume her hours were 7:00am to 3:00pm.
Her phone pinged in Frederck at 6:16am. The driving time between Frederick and Anadarko is 25 minutes. She should've arrived at the office at around 6:40-6:45am. So, what time did she clock in that day? I heard some people say she was late for work. Agent Kevin should've asked her about her whereabouts on 8/13. He didn't!
https://www.reddit.com/r/WattsCaseEvidence/comments/egpq1s/the_111min_phone_call_nks_alibi_on_sunday_night/
Alesia Piresio
ReplyDeleteLarry there is something you are not thinking of when it comes to nk and this case. What if I told you she was given an immunity deal? And the charges you say they could have pressed on her, where dropped in exchange for her calling CW on the phone, and recording the conversation, in which CW told her what he did to his family. I have tried to tell Dave this but he has me blocked from commenting on his channel. Larry there is a gag order in this case. This is why the R’s stopped bringing up nk being involved. I know somebody who loosely worked on this case and this is what he told me. He told me nk got a a deal. The interviews that she did with Baumhover that were kept out of the Discovery, were all having to do with that. She recorded CW saying he did this. This is the evidence they have against CW, and CW upon learning this, chose to plead guilty. There is an open case at the CBI involving nk and a couple other ppl. But that case is not active right now. It was opened in case any evidence ever comes up showing nk lied during her immunity deal. It is not currently being worked on right now at all. There are things with this case that look shady, and they really aren’t. It just looks that way because things were held back and sealed, and that was because there was an immunity deal with nk and a gag order by the Judge. Rourke cannot come out and talk about these things Larry. That would be illegal for him to do that. Another thing I wanted to tell both you and Dave. Jim was not in the State over that weekend. He did not get into Town until Monday afternoon. And that was looked at by the CBI. They did check that out. He was working in another State. Also, he has a home in Montana. His apartment in Denver, he rented out to a friend of his named Robert. Robert happens to be involved with the satanic church in Denver. I am not kidding. AD knows about Robert. There were many phone calls listed in nk’s phone records between herself and Robert. He is a very good friend of hers and of course Jim’s. But Jim could not have been involved in the murders. He had an air tight alibi. These are just some of the things I know about this case. My information came from somebody who did do some work on this case. This is why I know it is credible. You and Dave see me as somebody trying to troll you. And that is not at all what I am trying to do. You have some thinking that is not correct with this case. I only wanted to let you know some things that I know about this case. Take care.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qs840E2lniY
Just Larry
DeleteThank you. I know about Robert. She called him the day of the murders. But no immunity deal was given. I promise. There’s no legal mechanism to do so even if they wanted. There was never a grand jury empaneled. No trial.
Crystal Quintanilla
@Just Larry 100% correct. And they would have to state a special witness is involved and being cooperative and under protection with immunity wouldn't they? Like even if sealed and gag order?? Or am I wrong
Alesia Piresio
@Just Larry I assure you there was a deal given. And she recorded CW on her phone in exchange for it. The person I know this from I would trust my life. And he has no ties to the DA. He is not corrupted. Do you remember when her Dad talked about that they needed to hurry and get this done? That’s what he was talking about. You are only hearing partial pieces of those interviews Larry. They cut all of them in many many places. That info was then sealed by the Judge on this case. CW knows about this Larry. It is the main reason he chose to plead guilty. Because what he said on those recordings, he did not want his Family to ever hear!
Alesia Piresio
These things are all sealed and they are sealed for 50 years. Deals are kept secret unless the person testifies at trial. She also recorded him! you can look it up hun. It has been open sitting there since before CW was even sentenced. It remains open right now. Look it up, you will find I am telling you the truth. Open is not the same as active. It is not active! And it really never was.
Lana can say whatever she wants! She was never involved in this case on any level. What I am telling you is this is why the R’s stopped all talk of Nk being involved, and it is why the Watts will not speak of her being involved. CW has never ever said she was involved. You need to stop listening to liars like Lana and Kim and Jay! None of that was real! As far as this case goes. It’s been over for over 2.5 years and unless they got evidence that nk was there, it is going to continue to be over. And sealed evidence in a case by a Judge, is not able to be included in Discoveries, either! It’s find though. You all can believe whatever you want to of course. I know that I have gotten the truth about this from the person I know. By all means Larry should continue pushing. Maybe he eventually will some how be shown I am correct about this. I don’t see how it is possible he will though. Because it is all sealed and the gag order placed. That DA cannot talk about any of this.
A gag order and sealed evidence and deals, means just that! It is not public information that some ex legislature from New York can get access to!
Just Larry
@Alesia Piresio Alesia - I don’t doubt that you believe this. You’ve been very respectful and I feel you’re genuine. I appreciate that. And you’re right, I’m just a former legislator from NY. That title isn’t what brought me the knowledge. But like you, I was told by someone very close to the case that this isn’t true. Unless it’s such a top secret deal that even Rourke’s staff doesn’t know about. But in my experience, I’ve never heard of such a thing. And usually, if they had recordings like that, a DA would run to the media with them. Just like Amber Frey in the Peterson case. And especially in a case this high profile and with so many unanswered questions. She had no chance to record him. Her last interview that we know of was past the 20th and long after he confessed. She had zero chance to speak with him. And from that interview, she is clearly still lying and they are clearly still probing her. That interview would’ve been after any alleged recordings. So it wouldn’t have taken place. Please think about that.
Alesia Piresio
Delete@Just Larry That interview was after the recording. Nk recorded him on Monday and Tuesday before CW was even arrested Larry. What I am telling you is she had those recordings, and she used them to get out of being charged for anything. It does not mean she was not involved. Other than the actual murders. She was still involved in basically bitching enough and holding having other dates lined up over his head. CW was addicted to sex with nk. She was clearly making him believe, that she was going to walk, if he did not get something going with getting out of that house and getting his own place. She was pushing him with that. I believe she also planted many seeds with how expensive child support was going to be etc etc. But to actually help kill them, she did not do that Larry. Jim was not even here in Colorado when they were killed. It just did not happen that way. CW did do the actual killing. And he did do it to be with nk. He was not only gaslighted in to this by nk though. He was gaslighted in to it by his Family as well. And of course the oxy! Anyway I see ppl claim they have no evidence against CW. Yes they do. They have him telling nk he did this on recording from Monday and Tuesday. The actual deal with her was made with Baumhover, not Kobach. And those interviews are sealed. But there is loads of tape cut from her interviews with Kobach. They cut a lot out. And that was also all sealed. I knew ppl want some huge scandalous corruption to be unveiled in this case. But that is not what was at play here. And really Larry, I don’t know why you think that. Because Dwayne Kessinger and Nk are donor level Democrats! Why would Buck protect nk?
Alesia Piresio
@Gem Rose Forgive me but the 1st thing Larry ever came out about in regards to this case was that nk was having an affair with an exec at Anadarko. And the Buck was good friends with the guy. So he covered her role in these murders up. That did not happen. No Anadarko exec had an affair with that skank! That was what he originally said his “ friend” in the DA’s office told him. All this other stuff came later on. And what you have to understand is this. Weld County is the only County in this state not controlled 100% by Democrats right now. Larry is a Democrat! When he speaks about Republicans you can hear the hatred! So I am sorry, but that political bias, and his supposed “friend” in the DA’s office, also a Democrat btw. Ya know, the Democrat Party wants 100% over every town, city, County in this State. Hell, they want that over the entire Country! That is a bias! And that is not at all what occurred in this case. Dwayne and Nicole Kessinger are donor level Democrats! Congressman Buck, is not going to put his entire career on the line to protect Nicole Kessinger if she murdered kids ffs! It is asinine belief. And it is 100% based upon a Political Party bias. And he does not even speak to that friend anymore according to him. Has not spoken to him since before Christmas. He also keeps saying how huge this case is. What he does not realize is it’s not huge here in Colorado! It was barely covered here. And if there were some underhanded bit with Rourke and Buck. Believe me, it would have been! The media here is 100% controlled by the Democrat Party! I live here! I know!
Alesia Piresio
Delete@Crystal Quintanilla She is out of jail hun. And she was never charged with murder or accessory even though she helped. She did not even spend a year in jail! And she is who discarded the remains on her way to Idaho! That was the deal she cut. Patrick Frazee got life no parole. Without cutting that deal, Patrick Frazee would not have even been able to be charged much less convicted and sentenced to life no parole. You see, nk did not kill anybody, not did she get rid of their remains! CW did all of that. The best they could have charged nk with is lying and obstruction possibly. They did not have evidence she helped with any of it. She gave them her recordings of CW and they in turn helped her with protection. It is pretty straight forward. Believe me, if they had evidence nk helped, she would have been arrested. The CBI still has her case open but like I said it is not active. They are not investigating her right now. It is open in case anything would come forth showing her to have been there. Something they have is that her code was entered in to her apartment complex exit gate at a bit after 5:30 am on Monday morning. My friend did not know if there was a camera at that exit gate showing it to be her leaving that morning. But it was her personal code entered to open the gate. They also have her phone at her apartment all night, on Sunday night. This is why they did not believe she was at CW’s home that night nor that morning when he was loading his truck. They know Jim was not even in the State all that night nor that morning, he was working for Sunburst at that time. The bit that Jim and Nk murdered Bella and CeCe and threw them in those tanks is simply not true! And that is exactly why Jim is not in the Discovery. He was cleared very quickly through his employer, and his phone. Some of this stuff annoys me, because it’s absolutely bogus info. And ppl are over here I think nk and Jim did this and that. Well they didn’t! Nk may have had involvement on some level but she did not kill his kids ffs. And Jim was not even in the same State! It gets to a point where it is fine if you think nk knew and had involvement on some level. But ppl go way too far. There is no way in hell that The Cops, the CBI, and the FBI, are all 3 going to just let nk go if they have proof she slaughtered 2 little girls! That is not going to happen. Because nk was screwing some Anadarko exec and he is Buck’s and Rourke’s friend. Come on! These are kids we are talking about. That just did not happen. And the Judge on this case had an impeccable reputation. Ppl have built this up to things it is absolutely not. Saying things like Dwayne Kessinger owns Anadarko lmfao! I saw that comment on 1 of Larry’s lives. Total bs! He did not even actually work for Anadarko! He worked for Tasman and so did Nk.! I have seen ppl say Dwayne Kessinger is filthy rich and super powerful! Yeah, that’s really funny, since he lives not even 1 block from me and I am middle class. Just so many lies put forth. And ppl believe them. The truth is CW killed his family to be with nk. I know that truth is not as exciting as corruption and scandal. But it is the truth in this case. Whether nk knew he was going to kill his Wife or not, I have no idea. I would not doubt she did. But Bella and CeCe? Nope! I don’t believe that at all. I don’t think he originally planned to kill Bella and CeCe. I believe they either caught him with nk in that house, that weekend while Shanann was away. Or, Bella walked in and saw him killing her Mommy. It’s 1 or the other. He killed them so they could not tell.
MartinJDeehan
ReplyDeleteI speak to Frankie on a daily basis. Here's what he had to say: "Don't you think we were on FBI's back to check absolutely everything possible regarding this woman? I personally had briefings with FBI almost on a daily basis. The truth is, they never found even the smallest thing that would indicate she was involved in any way" She's a home wrecker, but that's all" (Keep in mind that he has seen a whole lot more evidence than any of us ever will) When the Rzuceks are 100% sure she wasn't involved, then that's all I need to know. I guarantee you that the FBI has footage of her entering the parking lot, driving to the gate (probably confirmed by the guards) There's a security system that register all vehicles passing named Transcore smartpass 4 (look up the address and you'll see it) There are 4 cams pointing in the direction of all vehicles passing the gate. While the Transcore reads the autopass (normally placed on the left side of the front window) Then start imagine NK sneaking unseen out into her father's truck (which had to be parked outside sight of all the surrounding cams) Drive to Saratoga. Then returning unseen back into her apt. Keep in mind, using the door is not an option. So a ladder up to the kitchen window had to be used...I mean.. it's like one of the Ocean's movies.. Since her front door was locked, she would have to swing through the ceiling to avoid the movement sensors.. Forget it. It never happened. The fact that you probably hear about this for the first time now, isn't that a bit strange? Type in her old address 12255 Claude CT, Northglenn, Colorado... And start to look around (the guards are placed in the building behind the parked card. NB The gate is closed outside business hours) Before anyone tries to convince you a REALLY blurry pixelated shows a woman with a ponytail, take in consideration what she had to get through just to sneak out of her apartment. Because before any LE will even consider what a CCTV frozen image shows, her alibi needs to be picked to pieces. The fact that no "True crime" channels have even considered starting at that end, tells me that their best off speculating. Throwing out accusations to draw in people. That's my opinion anyway.
Frankie Rzucek Jr
5 months ago
I know I probably shouldn't have shared this today. But I'VE HAD ENOUGH. He and his crew of losers are getting charged and arrested VERY SOON. Trust me
NT
4 months ago
Why do these evil people keep messing with your family. This is just horrific.
Frankie Rzucek Jr
4 months ago
@NT attention, money, fame. All evil
Frankie Rzucek Jr
Delete5 months ago
@Rose West its all good. Her armchair lovin ass has been removed. We don't discuss conspiracies on my wall. Ad will be going to prison and cw will never get an appeal or anything. He will rot and die in prison. Everyone gets theirs trust me.
Frankie Rzucek Jr
5 months ago
@Rose West Rourke and his team laugh at ad and they dontbeven open his bullshit he sends. They are professional Detectives and don't need some idiots on YouTube to add their 2 cents. He just wants money and to stay relevant. He is so full of shit. He does not have contact with cw. His parents maybe, but thats only because they think if they can get cw to say someone else was involved that he can get a lesser sentence or be let out. Lmfao. Cw will NEVER get out. Mark my words. He made that plea. We let him think about it for over a month. Cw ignored his parents on purpose because he doesn't care what they think. They still say cw wasn't allowed to talk to his parents lol. Yes he could have done whatever he wanted but chose not too. He was embarrassed for what he had done. He didn't want the death penalty, so he and his team of lawyers told Rourke that they wanted the death penalty off if he admitted guilt. So he asked us what we thought. My mom said she didn't feel rite to take his life, we're not God. So we also took the plea, because who wants to go to a trial that could last up to 10 years. Fly across the country for every court date, see pics of my murdered family's body's and everything else. So we took the plea for those reasons. They keep saying cw took the plea 😄. They made the plea. We accepted it. These assholes act like they know more than us. We fn lived this and still do. And if ad and his group of idiots think that ad is innocent and won't be charged and/or put in prison, they are delusional and haven't seen or heard everything very illegal that ad has done
Frankie Rzucek Jr
5 months ago
@2blessed 2Bstressed thank you. We helped make the documentary. They let us he part of the process and are great people. They made sure we were ok with it before it was released. Lifetime on the other hand was done before they ever even called us and idk if you seen it but it was horribly done. It was like watching a movie about a different family. But anyway thanks again, it was heartbreaking for sure but we're glad it was more about the actual victims instead of cw more and more. Stop making the killer famous.
Frankie Rzucek Jr
5 months ago
@Chrissy Lee oh he's not going anywhere trust me. The original judge will make sure of that. He said " Anything LESS THAN MANDATORY LIFE IN PRISON would take away from the SERIOUSNESS of this brutal murder." Plus he confessed like 3 times. That plea deal he and his defense team came up with sealed his fate and made sure he will pull all 5 life sentences and 80 years. The paper said that he can be released in the year 8,999. (Or something like that). Thats like what 6,979 years lol. They can waste all the money in the world and hire the words best lawyers, it will NEVER HAPPEN.. cw will rot in prison for brutally murdering my family and ruining ALL OF OUR LIVES. His family is still whole, we lost 4 loved ones, not them. They could care less, they are just worries about their psychopath murderer son, no one else. All of them are narrsasist, the apple doesn't fall from the tree.
Frankie Rzucek Jr
Delete5 months ago
@Kimberly Marino oh thats awesome thank you. I have several videos and things that he has said that is vindictive, slanderous, harrassment, bullying, and mental abuse. I hear the laws in the UK are way stronger on internet bullying too so he should get prison time for this. I have a lot more but im not sharing it on here just yet, its going straight to law enforcement. We have pretty much begged this pos to stop and yet he continues his conspiracy theories, spreads more rumors and lies that hurt my family and doesn't care because it doesn't affect him one bit. While he stacks up more than 4,000 a month off the backs of my murdered family. Once I get him in court I will have him pay back all 300,+000 :thothat he has conned out of people and put it toward something that can actually help someone. Not just fund someone's gambling and other addictions
Frankie Rzucek Jr
5 months ago
@Kimberly Marino well cw and his defense team actually gave us that plea deal so that we would take the death penalty off the table. We accepted not him.
Frankie Rzucek Jr
3 months ago
@Mrs. Anderson thank you thats why we're making Shanann's Law. To prevent anyone else from ever having to go through this torment. Also he has made OVER A QUARTER MILLION DOLLARS off of lies and scams. He hates to see anyone taking his con money. He is going to go to prison for what he's done to me and my family
Frankie Rzucek Jr
2 months ago
@Edele Browne I don't really have a choice. Of course I'm pissed that ad gets away with every he does. But getting mad gets me no where. My goal is to just get him charged and arrested. That's it
Frankie Rzucek Jr
2 months ago
@Kelly Clay no he will never get out. No matter how bad armchair or kim try, cw will never get out of prison. He will never even get a court date let alone any kind of appeal. He will stay in prison until the devil himself comes to get him.
Frankie Rzucek Jr
2 months ago
@Kyla’s Mom just another loser. I don't bother to watch the video, I can just read the comments. I try not to watch those aholes because it aggravates me. But thank you, these angry jealous women are coming out of the woodwork after almost 2.5 years. Disgusting, and they will have their own karma to worry about.
Frankie Rzucek Jr
ReplyDelete2 months ago
@Skyler Cunningham I care about and love MY SISTER more than any of you ever could, trust me when I say we asked all the right questions, and turned every stone to see if she was involved. SHES INNOCENT, we can't let emotions and reality judge what's real or fake. As much as I hate her, I can't just get her charged for something she didn't do. CW KILLED MY FAMILY ALL BY HIMSELF, IF ANYONE ELSE WAS IN THAT HOUSE WE WOULD HAVE SEEN THEM ON CAMERA, OR WE WOULD HAVE SEEN THE NOTIFICATION OF A WINDOW OR DOOR OPENING SOME WHERE ELSE IN THE HOUSE. WE CAN CLEARLY SEE THAT ITS CW AND ONLY CW ON NATES CAMERA.
A MAN WITH A FAILED BUSINESS, TWO FAILED MARRIAGES, A POKER ADDICTION AND GAMBLING ADDICTION, HAS NO INVESTIGATION QUALIFICATIONS, LIVES ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE PLANET DOESN'T KNOW MORE THAN MYSELF, MY PARENTS, THE FBI, CBI, LAW ENFORCEMENT, AND 30/40 YEAR VETERAN DETECTIVES. THEY DO THIS FOR A LIVING AND HAVE FOR MANY YEARS.
YOU'RE ALL BEING LIED TO, SCAMMED, AND CONNED BY THE BIGGEST CON ARTIST ON SOCIAL MEDIA. ALAN HAS MADE CLOSE TO 400,000 DOLLARS OFF OF YOU ALL, BECAUSE YOU BELIEVE HIS BLATANT LIES. HE HAS BEEN CAUGHT IS SOOOOO MANY LIES, YET YOU GULLIBLE PEOPLE STILL TRUST HIM. FOR THE LIFE OF ME, I WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND WHHY.. CRISSY IS A FRAUD, WAS NEVER ATTACKED AND IS NOW BEING SUED BY DYLAN, BLAIR/ HEATHER IS A FRAUD THAT HASNT TALKED TO CW IN YEARS, AND THEY NEVER EVEB DISGUSTED THE CASE.
ALAN HAS YET TO TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT ANYTHING..ONE DAY HE MAKES YOU GUYS BELIEVE HE CARES ABOUT MY SISTER WHILE TELLING ME AND MY FAMILY TO GFOS. THEN SAYS HE'S "HELPING CW GET AN APPEAL" THE PERSON WHO SINGLE HANDEDLY MURDERED MORE THAN HAFE MY FAMILY, AND ALAN IS TRYING TO SET HIM FREE. EVEN THO THAT WAS A BLATANT LIE, STILL WHO DOES THAT, THEN KIM PLAYS A VIDEO FROM RONNIE TELLING THE WORLD THAT THEY HAVE NEVER EVEN SPOKEN TO ALAN, THAT THEY DONT EVEN KNOW WHO HE IS, AND SHE ALSO PLAYED AUDIO OF CW TELLING YOU THAT HE HAS ALSO NEVER TALKED TO ALAN. HE IS A COMPULSIVE, AND PATHOLOGICAL LIAR.
I WILL BE IN THE UK PRESSING CRIMINAL CHARGES AGAINST AD FOR SLANDER, HARRASSMENT, TORMENT, FRAUD, AND SO MUCH MORE. HE WILL GO TO PRISON FOR WHAT HE HAS DONE TO ME AND FAMILY EVERY DAMN DAY FOR THE LAST 2 YEARS AND 5 MONTHS. AND ONLY THEN WILL MY FAMILY HAVE THE JUSTICE WE NEED AND DESERVE.
DeleteNOTICE ALAN MAKES 20,000 A MONTH OFF OF YOU GUYS AND THEN TELLS YOU HE DOESN'T MAKE MONEY. IF THAT PRICK WASN'T MAKING TONS OF MONEY OFF OF EXPLOITING MY MURDERED FAMILY, HE WOULD HAVE STOPPED YEARS AGO. WE ALSO KNOW AND HAVE SAID A HUNDRED TIMES THAT WE KNOW PEOPLE WILL TALK ABOUT THE CLOSED CASE,
BUT WE ONLY ASKED FOR PEOPLE TO STICK TO THE FACTS, WHICH ALAN HAS YET TO DO. HE STOLE THE SHADOWS STORY FROM A WOMAN AND THEN BLOCKED HER, CALLED MY DAD AND I TROLLS, MY SISTER VINDICATED HERSELF, AND SO DID CW WHEN HE TOOK FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE MURDERS AND GAVE HIS DISTURBING, GRAPHIC, AND DISGUSTING DETAILED CONFESSION.
IF YOU READ THE DISCOVERY (LIKE ALAN HAS YET TO DO, BECAUSE HE CANT MAKE MONEY OFF GULLIBLE PEOPLE WITH FACTS) CW'S CONFESSION MATCHES THE DISCOVERY AND THE AUTOPSIES.
THIS IS MY FAMILY, MY ONLY SISTERS AND NIECE'S, I WOULD DIE FOR THEM, NO ONE IS GOING TO TELL ME IM WRONG, OR THAT IM NOT FIGHTING FOR THEM. IM ON HERE EVERY FKN DAY DEFENDING THEM AND MAKING SURE FAKE PEOPLE LIKE ALAN AREN'T GETTING AWAY WITH FRAUD, OR LYING ABOUT MY BELOVED SISTER AND NIECE'S.
ALAN IS A SICK, DISGUSTING, NARRSASIST, WITH AN EGO TO BIG FOE THIS PLANET, HE KNOWS THAT IF HE TOLD YOU THE TRUTH THAT CW ACTED ALONE, HE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO SCAM YOU ALL OUT OF MONEY.
THINK ABOUT THAT. HAVE YOU EVER SAT AND THOUGHT ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO TELL ME. YOU'RE TRYING TO ME, SHANANN'S LITTLE BROTHER THAT IM WRONG, AND SOME DRUNK THAT DOESN'T EVEN LIVE IN AMERICA KNOWS MORE THAN ME.
ALSO YOU REALLY THINK THAT SOME RANDOM STRANGERS WOULD HELP A RANDOM GUY MURDER HIS BABY GIRLS, AND PREGNANT WIFE, RISK LIFE IN PRISON, GET AWAY SCOTT FREE WITHOUT ONE SHRED OF EVIDENCE, ON A CASE THAT HAS AN ABUNDANT AMOUNT OF EVIDENCE POINTING TO THE CHEATING HUSBAND, WHOS FAMILY HATED MY SISTER, AND HIS MISTRESS/GIRLFRIEND WANTED HIM TO BE SINGLE AND NO BAGGAGE. HE WANTED A NEW LIFE WITH HIS NEW BROAD, WITHOUT ANYTHING HOLDING HIM BACK.
DeleteWAKE UP, DUMP OUT ALANS BRAINWASHING KOLAID AND REALIZE THAT YOU HAVE BEEN CONNED, SWINDLED, LIED TO FOR ALMOST 2.5 YEARS. THERE'S SO MUCH I CAN SAY ABOUT ALAN, BUT YOU CAN JUST WATCH THE TRUTH CHANNELS TO FIND OUT EVERYTHING ELSE, BECAUSE THEY EXPOSE HIS EVERY LIE EVERYDAY. WHY DO YOU THINK HE HATES ME SO MUCH, ITS BECAUSE I WONT LET HIM GET AWAY WITH HIS LIES. PLEASE WAKE UP.
https://youtu.be/HAVbGkEQ9zk
How Shanann Watts' Family Feels About Netflix's American Murder: The Family Next Door: Her Brother Speaks Out
ReplyDeleteOCTOBER 8, 2020
Shanann’s brother, Frankie Rzucek, wrote of the documentary on his personal Facebook page, “I highly recommend watching this. It’s on Netflix. The director made sure we were a part of the whole process and we met the whole team personally. They made sure we were ok with them making this before they even started, unlike lifetimes horrible movie. This Documentary gives my sister a voice and she speaks throughout it. It also shows what her life was like before he came along and how happy she was with her beautiful family until he cheated and turned into a different person and became that monster.”
Chris Watts‘ brutal murders of his wife, Shanann Watts, and their two young daughters, Celeste and Bella, were horrifying and incredibly dark … but made for riveting true-crime TV. Indeed, American Murder: The Family Next Door almost immediately became one of the highest-viewed shows on Netflix. Despite having to potentially relive the worst time in any of their lives, Shanann Watts’ family—including Shanann’s brother Frankie Rzucek, who appears in video footage in the documentary—is nothing but grateful that Shanann’s story was told. In fact, Netflix consulted with Shanann’s loved ones when making the film.
American Murder: The Family Next Door examines Chris Watts’ murder of Shanann, who was 15 weeks pregnant at the time with a boy (Niko), and their two toddler daughters Bella, 4, and Celeste, 3. Shanann and the girls were reported missing on Aug. 13, 2018, and days later, Chris confessed to his father and investigators that he murdered his wife and their girls.
Police found their bodies at an oil site where Chris worked: The girls were inside an oil tank and Shanann was buried in a shallow grave nearby. Chris Watts was charged with the murders of Shanann, Bella and Celeste on Aug. 21, 2018. That November, Chris pleaded guilty to the murders and was charged with five counts of first-degree murder (one for each person he killed, plus two additional counts for the deaths of Bella and Celeste because they were under 12 years old), one count of unlawful termination of a pregnancy and three counts of tampering with a deceased human body. Chris was sentenced to three consecutive and two concurrent life sentences for the murders, plus an additional 48 years for unlawful termination of a pregnancy and 36 years for tampering with Shanann and the girls’ bodies.
The documentary gave Shanann’s family a sense of justice.
Shanann’s brother, Frankie Rzucek, wrote of the documentary on his personal Facebook page, “I highly recommend watching this. It’s on Netflix. The director made sure we were a part of the whole process and we met the whole team personally. They made sure we were ok with them making this before they even started, unlike lifetimes horrible movie. This Documentary gives my sister a voice and she speaks throughout it. It also shows what her life was like before he came along and how happy she was with her beautiful family until he cheated and turned into a different person and became that monster.”
Rzucek also called the Netflix’s documentary Shanann’s “story [in] her own words” and expressed amazement at Kylie Jenner watching and posting about the film. “How crazy that even Kylie Jenner watched it and shared this on her Instagram,” he posted on Oct. 1, sharing a pic from Jenner’s Instagram story. “My sister is an inspiration to millions of people all over the world and im honored to be her little brother. She’s still changing lives and I couldn’t be more proud.”
DeleteSadly, Rzucek also lamented several times on Facebook about being targeted by trolls and the harassment Shanann’s family faced following her murder, even launching a GoFundMe for legal costs to fight the bullying they’d faced since her death. Their goal is to pass a law called Shanann’s Law to curb harassment of victims’ families.
Shanann’s father, Frank Rzucek, previously begged cyberbullies to leave his family alone.
“I don’t want to go into specifics, but I will say that our family, including Shanann and her children—and our grandchildren—have been ridiculed, demeaned, slandered, mocked in the most vicious ways you can imagine,” he said. “This is so wrong. It is cruel. It is heartless … We have been subjected to wild, false allegations, fake Facebook accounts, hate speech and a constant stream of ugly, evil insults and attacks. Every time we turn around, there is someone trying to capitalize on our tragedy by spreading false rumors and outright lies about Shan’ann and our grandchildren.”
The Rzuceks’ appreciation for American Murder: The Family Next Door is a far cry from their feelings about a January 2020 Lifetime original movie based on the murders, which they said they were not consulted on.
In January 2020, ahead of the premiere of Chris Watts: Confessions of a Killer, Steve Lambert, an attorney for Shanann’s family, denounced the TV movie as “a false narrative that does not accurately depict who Shanann was in life, who Bella was in life, who Cece was in life.”
For now, Rzucek continues to share his love for his sister, his two nieces, and his unborn nephew, on Facebook. “The documentary is Number 1 in the USA and the UK after only being out for a little over 24 hours. Thats my sister, always on top. I love you Shannan,” he publicly posted on Oct. 1. “We miss you, you’re truly an inspiration to millions of women. You’re a hero to me and many others.”
“God bless you Shanann, Bella, Celeste and Nico,” he added. “We love you and we wish you were here.”
https://parade.com/1100204/jessicasager/shanann-watts-family-brother-react-netflix-documentary-chris-watts/
Putting a stop to the Constant Torment
Delete$10,930 raised
Frankie Rzucek is organizing this fundraiser on behalf of Sandra Rzucek.
Created August 28, 2020
Organizer and beneficiary
Frankie Rzucek
Organizer
Aberdeen, NC
Sandra Rzucek
Beneficiary
This fundraiser is no longer accepting donations. If you are the organizer, beneficiary, team member, or donor, sign in to see additional information.
https://www.gofundme.com/f/putting-a-stop-to-the-constant-torment
Posted byu/onyx1378
ReplyDelete5 days ago
Exploring the femme fatale theory about NK does not equal misogyny.
It remains the most compelling aspect of this case. A couple of posts in this sub already explored all the facts that still point to the mystery surrounding NK and her involvement with the Watts murders. NK is still a character of interest in this case because she chose evading public scrutiny rather than being upfront about every relevant detail, particularly that infamous 111 minute phone call with CW on the day of the murders. I find it hard to believe that it was a conversation about their upcoming Aspen trip and the many Kama Sutra positions they have yet to explore. If I were planning to commit a murder, I’m sure the only thing I can think about is how to execute it without getting caught. Dessert will definitely come later FFS. She chose anonymity over showing her sorrow and remorse, anything to put some humanity to her involvement. Instead, she’s this elusive character chameleon that can shed new skin (i.e. changing her name) and assume a new identity rather than own up to her old one. Getting caught having an affair with a married man will NEVER compel me to shed my current identity. Adultery is Old Testament stuff. Would you drop your name, move cities, forget friends and acquaintances for simply fucking a married man? Her involvement was far more sinister.
I don’t have another family annihilation story to compare NK with. Another true crime case that comes to mind is Michelle Carter. She compelled her online BF Conrad Roy to commit suicide when he was having second thoughts. She didn’t kill him herself, he did it all, but evidence showed she pushed him to do it instead of alerting his family or 911 to save his life. NK’s involvement IMHO is this at the barest minimum. Circumstantial evidence once again point to her role being far more sinister than simply a mistress. She knew about the plan and did not do anything to stop the execution of it. She occupied 111minutes of a murderer’s time on the day the murders were executed- a time that would otherwise be used to execute the plan and escape. Hardly a time or mood for phone sex don’t you reckon? Something went wrong to stuff up that plan.
DeleteThe compelling question is why did police let her go without the legal scrutiny expected of an accomplice to murder. I’ve toyed with different motivations and I’m convinced she was a powerful enough character to make a deal with police because of the sheer psychological hold she had on CW. We’ve all heard about the first 48hrs being the most crucial part of a murder investigation. The longer it goes on beyond that lessens the likelihood of the case being solved. The longer it went on, NK knew the less leverage she had. Police believed the soonest they got a confession from CW and found the bodies, the better for the case overall. It perhaps was never about whether they ignored her as being complicit to murder. They likely knew but they needed the psychological leverage of saying: “you did this all to live a new life with your mistress. But guess what your mistress just told us.” They needed to snap CW out of his homicidal delusion. He was faced with only three options after he realised he no longer had the happy ending he hoped for: 1) Confess to everything to avoid the death penalty, 2) Lawyer up and fight the charges and potentially get death, 3) Fight the charges, win (which he knew he had no hope of winning anyway) and have mommy be the only alpha woman in his life again. EDIT: You can almost sense his will to fight drop soon after NK went to police.
DeleteIt is truly hard to ignore the femme fatale role of NK in this case. In fact, I find it our responsibility to not forget her role and stop politicising it. This is about an individual’s intentions and behaviour, not a representation of gender or anything else. It’s frightening to think that she did some online research prior to meeting CW. It paints a picture of a morally depraved and narcissistic woman with a plan. Whether the plan was to be a mistress only because she was nymphomaniac or an evil chameleon wanting to own SW’s picture perfect life, who knows? All we know is she is part of a story that ended up with a family destroyed forever. We also know she’s starting a new story somewhere and we can only hope that doesn’t end up with another family destroyed.
DeleteEDIT: I’m not saying LE didn’t investigate NK properly. They likely knew the extent of her involvement. But her cooperation was critical in breaking CW in interrogation. LE makes deals with smaller fish to catch the bigger fish all the time. That news interview where CW was shady AF was the catalyst for NK to go to law enforcement. Perhaps that was one of the biggest things that didn’t go as planned - CW was a terrible actor and NK knew he was fucked. There’s no helping a man so obviously guilty and the rush to exonerate herself with LE began. She was found to not be criminally involved but let’s not forget potential evidence was destroyed. Can LE say for sure if parts of the puzzle was disposed by NK? Being found to not be criminally involved is the same as saying they found no evidence to support that theory that NK was involved. We must remember though that potential evidence was destroyed. It wasn’t a case of NK handing in her SIM card, etc and police found nothing and then exonerated her. There was no SIM card to investigate. She occupied at least 111minutes of a murderer’s time on the day of the murders were executed and she chose to hide what was said during that time.
Deletehttps://www.reddit.com/r/Chriswatts/comments/moki6a/exploring_the_femme_fatale_theory_about_nk_does/
atschock
ReplyDelete4 days ago
I don’t think any of us can know for sure the degree to which she was scrutinized by law enforcement. If you go by the discovery files released to the public, it doesn’t appear they investigated her thoroughly. I recall Tammy Lee stating the investigation stopped as soon as he took his plea deal. We also know that the DA said they never found out why NK had done those web searches of CW and SW nearly a year prior to when she said she met CW. Finally, nowhere in the discovery files that were released to the public do we see any data that explains why her phone location data uncharacteristically put her in CW’s town on the morning of the murders or her whereabouts that morning. By contrast, we do see heavy scrutinization at a very precise, moment to moment level of detail about their whereabouts that day from other people who interacted with CW, including NA, TM, KR, etc. Not once in any of her interviews was NK asked what time she got into work on Monday after her phone placed her near his house and that information is not otherwise documented anywhere in the discovery files. I sincerely hope and pray, for the sake of the victims and their families, that they scrutinized NK as thoroughly as possible but these thing make me very skeptical.
lastseenhitchhiking
3 days ago
Well said. I realize that LE possibly had concerns about Kessinger lawyering up and that all of the information probably wasn't publicly released. However, as the last known witness to have interacted with Watts prior to the homicides (a lengthy conversation that both claim not to recall details of), whose affair with the perpetrator was a primary catalyst for his crime (as Watts himself has stated to LE) and who (from her google searches) had specific concerns about LE tracing her text messages, she was treated in an 'hands off' approach in contrast to many of the other witnesses.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Chriswatts/comments/moki6a/exploring_the_femme_fatale_theory_about_nk_does/
Kelly8112
Delete1 day ago
We learned about the ping and her Internet history through her phone. I don’t know about you, but I also have a laptop, iPad, Apple Watch, a work iPhone, GPS in my car, etc. To get those items LE would have needed a court approved warrant. There was no warrant. NK didn’t even want to give up her phone. Do you think she would have handed those other items over willingly? Anadarko handed over her work emails which is likely the only reason she went to LE in the first place. Being a law student myself and surrounded by lawyers everyday, I can confidently say that NK was not thoroughly vetted.
Her internet history and GPS data came from her phone. The phone that she begrudgingly gave to LE.The police were not given access to other electronic devices that she owned. As I stated above, they would have needed a warrant for that or for her to hand them over willingly. It’s unlikely they would have been able to get a warrant through the courts based on the evidence they had at that time. Despite what you see on tv, judges don’t issue warrants like candy and there is a whole process that needs to be followed. Do you think that the police can just walk into NK’s home and grab her laptop or search her car or do practically anything without either a warrant or her permission? I’m sorry, but anyone familiar with legal processes can easily determine that NK was not fully vetted by the police. Also, the first two sentences of your post are bewildering to put it politely.
fiddlesticks_409
Delete3 days ago
Playing the misogyny card (in an attempt to bully those who question the degree of NK's involvement) has been the number one tactic utilized by her staunch defenders on this sub for years. It's lame and yawn inducing.
Next in line would be "How could she be guilty? She wasn't charged. You think you know more than LE?" 🙄 FWIW, (maybe not much, lol) I have benefited from having a father-in-law in one of the highest positions in state law enforcement, so I've been inadvertently privy to rather sobering information as to the reality of how things work. Let's just say I've learned that things are not always as straightforward in law enforcement as the public would assume they would be.
I find it interesting that when redditors identify and attempt to analyze NK's suspicious behaviors, they are often met with downvotes and/or disparaging hostile rebuttals from diehard NK defenders. Or, reported to the mods so that the damaging information related to NK is ultimately removed.
Yet when emphatic statements are made by the "NK had no involvement" group, their comments are usually not met with antagonistic replies from those that think otherwise. There's usually little passion in response. They are either politely ignored (which is what I do; I'll state my opinions sporadically, but I have no desire to force them upon anyone or argue with people about NK) or they are met with a calm, rational counterpoint.
I find the general difference in temperament of the two "camps" fascinating. Granted, there are exceptions. But on the whole, I think there's a curious distinction.
Bettyourlife
Delete4 days ago
She is definitely a person of interest, so to speak, and her incredibly off behavior is fascinating in and of itself, even without the backdrop of a homicide investigation.
NK appears to embody the tired trope of the calculated seductress. Even though this old adage has been used for ages to malign and control independent women, in NK's case the description seems quite apt. I've known several women with a similar approach to life, namely, women who make use of their female friends as wing women and convenient shoulders to cry on, but their main purpose in life seems to be trying to surround themselves with men willing to lavish them with attention, help them to emotionally regulation, and to give them free goods and services or cold hard cash.
NK's ott flirtations with the male detectives and tech guy, her obsessive deep dive into the state of the Watt's finances, and insistence in orchestrating the minutia of Chris's future as a single father, is an unusual approach for a mistress who claims to be still undecided about the future of their relationship.
Six weeks in (supposedly) and she already had him in a stranglehold.
lastseenhitchhiking
ReplyDelete7 days ago
I feel like NK knew they were dead before the interview. If only we had those missing text conversations. It would fill in so many gaps.
Whatever Kessinger might have known, she prioritized deleting those texts and didn't contact LE until Wednesday, August 15th (about 9:49 am), a little under two hours after Anadarko Regional Security Manager Tony Huskey notified LE about his discovery of the emails (about 8 am). At the least, it's an incredible coincidence of timing.
air_child99
7 days ago
We know she did her research. I just wonder why CW has been so tight lipped about her now that he’s taken the fall and has nothing left to lose. For all anyone knows, she hung him out to dry and disappeared. What kind of agreement did they have, I wonder?
HunterS_1981
7 days ago
True, though he has implicated her somewhat in the prison interview (which I think he did carefully and purposely to get her attention). The thing is what does he have to gain now from rolling on her even if she was involved...nothing.
air_child99
7 days ago
I feel like he’s saving that information for a few years down the road when people start to forget about him and let him rot and he desperately wants some sort of relevance again. He’s got life in prison, he’s got plenty of time to play the long game.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Chriswatts/comments/mmyhpc/the_actual_issue_with_nks_2017_searches_for/
Bettyourlife
Delete6 days ago
The whole family would still be alive if it wasn’t for this terrible homewrecking woman.
NK clearly has mental health issues as well, no doubt also stemming from childhood. Her parents split up when she and her sister were the same age as CeCe and Bella, and to hear her tell it, the divorce was a lark for them both (something I find highly doubtful).
Much of the vitriol NK has incurred comes from the obvious glee with which she describes in minute detail the vagaries of their relationship. Contrasted with the obvious and gargantuan callousness and manipulation with which she lies about the timeline and intensity of the affair and state of the Watts marriage, the "home wrecking" aspect of her behavior appears to have been deliberate, prolonged and a source of excitement for her.
To be so unaffected by a quadruple homicide, not during one, but in multiple interviews, choosing instead to waste LE's time with reams of enthusiastic descriptions of incidentals such as macros and menus, is to out oneself as someone devoid of feelings of empathy and protective instinct for the helpless and innocent And in a murder case, that makes a person look suspicious as hell.
Now add in her admitted constant machinations to put pressure on Chris to quickly divorce, remedy his finances, and essentially find a way to ditch his kids find a way to keep the butt sex coming.
The fantasy outcome: All CW's free time, most/all of CW's assets/income, all of CW's attention=happy skankstress, VS the reality outcome: half or less of CW's free time/half or less of CW's assets/income, 50% or less of CW's attention= NK dating other men and moving on, or NK fooling around behind his back (which quite possibly already had been happening during their brief folie a deux) and/or slamming her hand down on the table and coldly ordering him to "go be with your kids".
NK deliberately created an unsustainable garden of eden, helped foment his rage and disgust towards Shan'ann and made it clear that life sharing custody with children was going to be 1. very expensive and 2. a total headache and 3. a banishment from their unsustainable sexual utopia.
NK was in no way ignorant about their situation, and her desperate manipulations, her fervent online searches, and intrusiveness into their finances and marital and family issues are proof alone of that.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Chriswatts/comments/mmv8c9/questions_about_nk_im_new_here_so_please_be_gentle/
RCRBFF
ReplyDeleteFor my part, when I reviewed the evidence (interrogation, discovery, interviews), I noted:
He fully participated in all their financial decisions since it would have been impossible for them to purchase the home, get credit, take money out of the 401K, etc., without his express consent. His mother also said that he was attracted to Shannan partly because of her big house. He saw it as a sign of success, discrediting the theory that CW didn't care about these things.
CW was far from anti-MLM. He schlepped Thrive to his coworkers, crediting Thrive to his lost weight and improved fitness. He also continued to use the patches after the murders and is seen drinking a Thrive shake in one of the media snippets filmed when his family was missing.
He was estranged from his family several times – that we know of, including before meeting Shannan (and excluding Nutgate).
When he left for trade school, his father became a cocaine addict, and the family blamed him because he left home.
His family decided not to attend his wedding.
CW didn't speak to his family for several years after moving to CO.
After the murders, CW did not want to see or talk with his mother.
After his confession and before his sentencing, he refused to see his family.
I think NK was the trigger. Since he is a narcissist and psychopath, I think it was easy for him to dispose of his family since it no longer met his needs. I also think misogyny and hatred of females played a significant role in his actions. I think once he tired of the sex, he would have disposed of NK like he did his mom, and Shannan, and the girls.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Chriswatts/comments/mli50a/we_all_know_a_women_like_sw/
HunterS_1981
ReplyDeleteHe was not the least bit concerned NK would be bothered by what he did. He was very concerned about his guy friends at the job yet not her.
In the very beginning I thought no way did she have anything to do with it. I didn't even listen to her interviews other than her break down, which I thought was shrill but...because that's all I heard I figured that snippet was a good indication of how upset she was throughout. Then listening to CW's interviews repeatedly it struck me how odd it was that he wasn't expressing concern about her finding out what he had done. Why would he commit the murders to be with her...unless he was fairly convinced she (a)was ok with it in some form or (b) wouldn't find out. So when he knew she was going to find out...why wasn't he freaking. There is a good comparison...his reaction to his co-workers finding out what a monster he is was memorable. I'd say probably the most upset he got. Then I listened to everything.
Bettyourlife
She may have set out to rip a family apart, but that doesn't mean she wanted them dead. I do think she wanted them to conveniently disappear, and might have said so to Chris, but that doesn't mean she wouldn't have been satisfied with Shan'ann and the girls simply staying in NC and starting their lives over from there.
NK was asking the impossible from Chris, and was too entitled to care, but the murders were clearly more a product of his extreme dysfunction than NK's. A normal man would have passed her advances up, or if he succumbed to indulging in a tryst or two, would have kicked her crazy ass to the curb once she started intruding upon his affairs and making her "gimme my firsts" demands.
If someone starts love bombing you and within the context of a newly minted romantic relationship asks you to rob a bank, I'm going to guess that you'd decline. Chris already had to have that seed of darkness for NK's craziness to cause it to grow.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Chriswatts/comments/miviq2/did_nk_and_cw_possibly_meet_through_a_cogcc/
J Yeager
ReplyDelete5 days ago
I think your analysis is spot on Michelle. The only thing I'd add is the power of Chris' fantasy life. He had been fantasizing for a long time about being a single man with NK as his girlfriend. And with Shannaan and the girls in NC for five weeks Chris was actually living his fantasy in real life. He's said that he also fantasized about killing Shannaan (and Nico), but not the girls. Their deaths seemed like something of an afterthought, kind of the residual fallout of fulfilling his fantasy of killing Shaanaan, if you will. I think that's in large part why Chris botched the "disposal" of the girls so badly. And why he gave himself up to police within just 2 days of the killings. It was because he never really thought about how he would actually commit murders and get away with it. All he was thinking about was his fantasy of being WITH NK and WITHOUT any attachments to any past family or family life.
Argos Z
5 days ago
@Gian-Luc Basseur If as I suspect, CW is a Covert Narcissist, there IS a benefit to taking his secrets "to the grave". This type of personality obtains an enormous amount of "Supply" from withholding information/knowledge from those who need/want it, especially in this case his victims' desperate family. He is also doing the same to his own family (the Watts), and they are oblivious to the fact that if CW decides it is of benefit to him (more Supply) he will throw them under the bus too. Like a shark that attacks a human, Narcissists can appear to be mildly cruising along - until they strike. They size up their prey, but only strike when the situation benefits them. Like the shark, it's in the Narcissist's nature, except the victim may never be aware they have been duped.
https://www.reddit.com/r/realhousewives/comments/me0eun/the_reaction_of_the_guy_in_the_middle_when/
Posted byu/aenflex
ReplyDelete24 minutes ago
I believe the act was premeditated, but not deeply thought out. I believe the plan went almost exactly to plan in terms of the murder night; he intended to place his children in the battery drums and leave them, were they would be reduced to nothing, and to store Shanann at Cervi temporarily while he worked that day. Ultimately, he intended to remove Shanann from her shallow grave after work, and bring her to a more remote final resting place, using her Lexus to do so, and stage the scene to make it look like she voluntarily left with the children, perhaps even using her phone to send explanations to close friends and family. After all of that, he would start reaching out to people, media, law enforcement.
Things began to unravel in high gear when he was faced with the combined problems of Shanann’s phone passcode change and NK blowing up the situation almost right away, both of which completely ruined the second phase of his murder plot and sealed his fate.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Chriswatts/comments/natqj4/my_case_theory/
Mary4278
ReplyDelete14 hours ago
Your statement that if she had ANYTHING to do with she would have been prosecuted to the full extent of the law is absolutely not true.We would all like to believe that is how our justice system works at all times but it's NOT.Sometimes it works out that way but the truth is it's what they can prove and how much evidence they actually have.Often they have some evidence but not enough for a DA to move forward.The issue that sadly comes into play,is corruption.There are corrupt people and corrupt institutions and if you dont believe this can happen you have not lived long enough or paid enough attention.I do not know if NK was directly involved in the crime,I do suspect she was indirectly involved in that she wanted CW and she refused to accept him as he was.He was a married man and a father with two toddlers and one on the way.NK wanted to have something like CW created and to have firsts with him and give him his first son.Since CW could not get into a time machine and go backwards he decided to just permanently get rid of his family so NK could have her firsts.It also would made it much easier financially on him...so expedient! Had she said I don't care if you have children and another on the way.They will have another adult to love and guide them and I can help you but you need to do this in a mature manner and be respectful of the mother of your children.It may be difficult at times, but you can do this and it's your responsibility since you CHOSE to get married and then bring children into the world.Instead she wanted the perfect fairytale and told him so and he was fearful of losing her so he created what she wanted. Ironically,his choice did make him lose her and all chances of starting over.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Chriswatts/comments/nae3he/check_out_my_videos_on_this_case_theyre_very/
Ineffable_Twaddle
ReplyDelete2 days ago
CW had a prime opportunity to bail the minute his family's plane took off for NC. He could have called a moving company, had their stuff packed and loaded and sent to NC, and sent SW a text: "Roses are red, violets are blue, you can have the kids cause we're through." I know that oversimplified it but Gawd almighty, cut her loose while she was with her parents and brother! What marital assets did they have besides their children? A heavily mortgaged house and several unopened boxes of Thrive shakes? Shan'ann could have found a way to support herself and her kids with her parents' help. Chris would be persona non grata with the Rzuceks but not because he'd killed his family, for abandoning them- which isn't good either but they'd all still be here. And Chris could give primary custody to his wife and just send checks. But if he could just coldly dispose of the two he had, he wasn't going to just turn on the love for any he had for NK or any other woman.
Bettyourlife
1 day ago
I'm not saying she asked him to kill the kids or even Shan'ann. What I'm saying is that she made it clear she wasn't going to be happy with a standard 50/50 divorce outcome, complete with custody, child support, communicating with ex wife etc. She was demanding the impossible to happen, that she was going to be first all the time, and she was also making her claim on his time and money for her imaginary children.
She wanted the beautiful life that was no longer his to give as long as Shan'ann and the girls were in the picture. It was on Chris to make it clear he couldn't give her exactly what she wanted, and she could take it or leave it. I think that deep down he knew he was at risk of losing her and because he himself had no attachment to his girls other than what they did for his image, the decision to annihilate his family seemed like the logical choice.
Aggressive-Jicama-54
19 hours ago
Absolutely to all this, and plus...she is a crazy, bipolar person, not your average homewrecker. So imagine the expectations, woman-child fits, demands, and mindgames she was throwing at CW's weak mind. We don't have to imagine, she put herself out there during those interviews. I figure people who stick up for her and CW relate to them on some level....couldn't be me after hearing NK speak about "that girl" and "those girls". NK had such contempt for his entire family even after he murdered them, she couldn't even say "his daughters". And her focus on money while this was all happening was revolting, she tried so hard to victim blame SW knowing damn well CW did not know or care about their finances until she started prying. Such a toxic individual.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Chriswatts/comments/n9a7re/what_if_he_had_chickened_out/
Bettyourlife
ReplyDelete1 day ago
"Do we have proof of the whole "Firsts" thing being said by anyone but CW?"
We have the following text NK sent to her friend Charlotte: "I just feel like I will always be second place, like he's been there done that". which was said in regards to CW already having kids.
We have her email stating that she wanted the same beautiful life he had already built with his wife and two little girls.
We have the cringe-fest Bday card he sent her, promising a year filled with many firsts.
We have her statement to LE that she wasn't thrilled that he already had kids.
We have her statement to Chris that she wanted to give him his first son when she already knew Shan'ann was pregnant.
We have her researching condom expiration dates to make sure he wasn't having sex anymore with Shan'ann while retaining her own liberty.
Bettyourlife
1 day ago
"I don't have proof that he changed his schedule to accommodate the girls. I don't know what his plan exactly was and I don't think we will ever have an answer."
We have his cold behavior towards the girls in NC documented by Shan'ann, her family, and the stranger that observed them at the fair.
We have the fact that he asked his neighbor Nate to point his security camera away from his driveway and towards the street several weeks before the murders.
We have his confession of giving Shan'ann oxy to induce miscarriage and her documented sickness afterward.
We have the fact that there is no evidence that either CW or NK searched for apartments, their respective online searches for jewelry and vacations, and kinky sex and man leaving mistress.
We have the fact that CW never once contacted a divorce attorney nor searched online for Colorado divorce law during the six weeks Shan'ann was in NC
We have his confessions of premeditation and his arrangement to be alone at Cervi that Monday morning.
And most tellingly we have his absolute lack of remorse for the killings almost three years and counting.
He may have changed his work schedule for a multitude of reasons, not the least of which would be to have a large expanse of free time to spend with NK to go camping, have threesomes, etc. With the both of them working at Cervi and spending every minute together during days off, he could be with NK nearly 24/7 with a schedule like that. Many of his coworkers were also requesting a similar schedule change, I doubt they all were getting ready for divorce. He appears to be a master dissembler so another perk would be to dupe others into thinking he was eager to share custody of the girls with Shan'ann, effectively throwing them off the scent of his true intentions.
Besides his absolute lack of remorse for the killings, we also have his bizarre choice for new prison chums and their shared shenanigans, his grandiose claim that he will become a prison chaplain and start his ministry once he's released, his laughable attempt at a 35c, his grotesque family and their association with a steady stream of mentally unbalanced bottom feeders, his sickening claim that his girls are now his guardian angels watching over him in prison, well I go could on but I think you get the gist.
The man has shown himself to be a premeditated murderer without a conscience. Someone like this doesn't do anything without an ulterior self-serving motive, even chore monkeying for Shan'ann served a purpose which apparently was to hide the fact that he couldn't speak like a normal adult for longer than 5 minutes. He hid behind the facade of family life until there was another option. It's sadly ironic that by helping to create a plausible facade for this miscreant and thereby pumping up his ego, Shan'ann unknowingly unleashed the monster that ended up killing her.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Chriswatts/comments/n9a7re/what_if_he_had_chickened_out/
That__EST
Delete1 day ago
You brought the sauce. I respect that. Is this all in the Discovery?
Bettyourlife
1 day ago
Yes, the Discovery, as well as LE interviews, articles with documentation, online records, and recordings. There are some exceptions ie NK knowing that Shan'ann was pregnant, which is my speculation based on her avid googling and intense intrusion into the Watts family's private life.
The info I relayed about Chris's behavior after the murders comes largely from articles and recordings. The last bit about his choice to chore monkey for Shan'ann is again my speculation, which is based partly on other's observations that he always stayed with the kids at parties and his bizarrely clumsy attempts to converse with others when being filmed.
From the LE cam footage, he appeared to be unable to hold a particular personality for longer than 5 minutes. He flitted from dudebro, people pleaser, angry alpha male, to the supplicant, he's got a veritable Rolodex of different faces to switch on as the need arises. His tone deaf interview the next day, barely able to hide his joy that his family was never coming back home again is yet another example of how deeply dysfunctional this man is.
Educational-Candy154
ReplyDelete1 month ago
I think he showered her with love/adoration in the beginning stages of their relationship, then she came to expect it. I do think she was controlling toward him and probably nagged/complained a lot. But I also see where she showered him with praise. There are many Facebook posts where she says he is the best thing that ever happened to her, she is so lucky to have him, etc etc ad nauseum. She also mentioned in a Facebook post that she was grocery shopping and meal prepping for Chris before her NC trip, and he said in his prison interview that he really missed her cooking. So obviously she cooked for him and he liked it. Kind of pathetic that she had to grocery shop and meal prep for him when she was going to be away, in my opinion. I can see cooking a couple of his favorite meals before leaving, just to be nice, but it seems to me almost like he was another one of her children. She also posted on Facebook that she had to pack both his and her bags for their San Diego trip (grown man can't pack his own bags? Wtf?). I get the feeling that theirs was one of those relationships that we have all probably seen. A man who wants to essentially be treated like a child. So he finds an outspoken, bossy, overbearing woman (who reminds him of his mommy) to marry. I think their relationship probably had a lot of issues that were never addressed, due to her lack of self awareness, and his non-confrontational personality. I don't think it's accurate to say it was all take on her side. I also don't think it was necessarily stupid of her to expect love, sex, and adoration from him, when that was what she had been getting all along. It seems that things suddenly changed when he met NK. He himself has said that he was happy in their marriage until he met NK. So I think she was completely caught of guard by his sudden change in behavior toward her.
To clarify, I am not saying she was a saint. I definitely see the flaws in how she treated him. I cringed watching that Santa video. It's really a shame that they didn't go to therapy years before this, I think if they did, things would have been completely different.
Educational-Candy154
Delete1 month ago
I think Chris's mother probably runs the show in that household, too. I think that's why shannan and Chris lasted as long as they did. They both thought it was normal for the woman to be overbearing and in control, and for the man to just go along with whatever he is told.
I think shannan realized what she was doing wrong way too late. She wanted to go to therapy, but he was already done.
I agree he was a pressure cooker, too. That's a good way of putting it. I think he "went with the flow" and avoided confrontation his whole life. He even said in his prison interview, that when shannan accused him of cheating, he couldn't admit it. So even though he was about to kill her, he couldn't bring himself to say those words to her face. He actually reminds me of an ex of mine. He seemed like a very nice guy, and treated me very well. He always wanted to "spoil" me. He would do anything for me. I didn't like it, honestly and ended up leaving him. I want to be more of an equal. This guy hated confrontation and avoided it at all costs. He would do anything for anyone. (Sounds a lot like what people said about Chris). But this man had a deeply hidden rage. His mother was very overbearing, and I think he was taught to always "be nice". But I saw a bit of his rage a couple of times. He became so angry, and it was obvious he didn't know how to handle it. His face became pale and he was shaking and sweating. He was like a different person for a minute. But then it went away. I think he had trained himself to bury his feelings from a young age. I think Chris did, too.
I agree Chris should have just left. I know shannan wasn't letting him go without a fight. I think he couldn't handle all that confrontation and couldn't bury his anger any more, after all those years of pushing his feelings down and appeasing her.
Educational-Candy154
1 month ago
Chris seems very similar to my ex, to me. My ex was also quiet and introverted. Anyone who knew him would say that he was the nicest guy and would do anything to help you. If I said jump, he would say how high. But I get the sense with both Chris and my ex that they are not motivated by a true desire to be kind, but that they just love being seen as "the good guy." It's hard to explain. With my ex, I also started to feel like he had put me on a pedestal, but that he didn't really know me. It was as if he wanted to treat me like a princess, but he was worshipping this idea he had of me, that wasn't really me. This is also hard to explain. I think it just really did something for his ego to know that he was "the perfect boyfriend" and that I would brag about him to all my friends. I could see this being the case with chris, as well. He loved being seen as the perfect husband and father who took such good care of his girls. And yes, the rage was scary and surprising with my ex, but I only glimpsed it briefly a couple of times. But it was as though it took over and he was a different person. I think he often pretended things didn't bother him when they really did, I think he had even convinced himself. I think he trained himself since early childhood to suppress those feelings. Obviously, that's an extremely unhealthy way of living. I could see Chris being the same.
athena_k
ReplyDelete2 months ago
Here's another possible explanation. I have read theories that CiW is a narcissist, and, if that's true, it could explain Ronnie's behavior. Many victims of narcissistic abuse do not show emotions and have a flat affect (showing no facial expression). They do this because any display of emotion triggers the narcissist to start abusing them. Basically they get conditioned to not show emotion at all.
DocsBlueAmigo
2 months ago
That's one way of looking at it and could be potentially true. He also had a pretty bad coke habit which generally creates depression in abusers of it.
It'd be interesting to see what kind of upbringing him and Cindi both had with their parents.
Humans are mostly a culminative result of genetics and environment, both his parent's seemed far from emotionally stable before this ever happened. Ronnie used Cocaine as a way of coping to his son leaving for college supposedly. Was his marriage to Cindi so stressful he used substances to cope now that he felt emotionally alone or was it perhaps something else.
His lifestyle and age doesn't really make sense to use it recreationally just for fun like a lot of younger users would, but who knows.
Cindi looks like she has always had major control issues and major jealousy issues which are often red flags about deep insecurities in herself and possibly abandonment issues. But again, who knows. But trying to have complete control over everyone around you isn't normal or healthy.
They both seem like they had no healthy coping mechanisms or adequate control over their emotions and the resulting children we witness bore from them are lacking empathy and again inability to handle emotions well.
Jamie seems as toxic and narcissistic and unempathic as her mothet in her statements to the situation completely deluded and needing to use Shannan as a scapegoat instead of bearing any responsibility on CW for his actions.
None of them allow CW to take any responsibility instead they absolved him and forgave him for killing 3 children and a pregnant woman. They seem more upset CW is in jail than the crimes themselves. Their sense of self seems so fragile they cannot accept he is responsible or it makes all of them look bad.so it's easier to live in a delusion he isn't to blame.
CW, a guy who chooses murder over confrontation, there's nothing normal or justifiable there. He was a grown adult that knew right from wrong, to so easily choose murder and never show any remorse, his wiring is completely wrong. There is not a shred of empathy in him even towards his children, never does he show remorse.
Ronnie specifically stated in his recent interview with KK he avoids conflict at all cost himself much like CW.
It's one messed up family, I wonder how far it goes back.
Stacylynn1979
ReplyDelete1 day ago
Starting in August of 2016. She has been on Thrive for almost 8 months. She is just starting her video catalog. The earliest I can find in 2016 is dated the 11th of Aug. I added the length of each video beside the dates so that we can see the change in her social media pattern.
8-11-16 (1:42) https://youtu.be/oo-I3Prewcs
9-21-16 (3:37) https://youtu.be/9-visTV00HA
This is her 1st "live". She talks about being uncomfortable about going "live". Its also the 1st Thrive infomercial that I can find. She is giving her "testimony" on Thrive. Talks about her kids being sick and keeping her "super busy". Its the beginning of a talking point that continues through to the end of her life.
She is enjoying the live chat with her huns and you can see what a good saleswoman she is and she looks like she gets a little rush from the live video feeds. She mentions that the kids would have made the whole process easier. She knows they are an ice breaker among other women groups.
She makes a few more videos to finish out September and you can see her getting more and more comfortable in front of the camera.
2-11-16 (3:54) she posts 2 videos back to back. This is the 1st. The 2nd is more of the same. https://youtu.be/_rvTNzL1LxM
This is the 1st cooking video. I thought it was significant because she says she "has had lots of blessings since LeVel and I can stay home and take care of my girls and grow my team." Has she quit her job at the hospital already? Does she honestly believe that?
She posts daily starting in December 2016. Sometimes multiple times a day.
ScarletFire060977
ReplyDelete5 days ago
like any Ponzi scheme, of which MLM's are a type of, it provides returns at the beginning, which is how you get sucked in. However, soon you find yourself swimming upstream against the current because to maintain your level, much less "grow" you need to make up for any shortfalls out of your own pocket.
You are not an independent "boss" but just a customer of the MLM. That is why many people will do it as a side gig, and those who do it "full time" already have the money to spare (think--bored partners whose spouses make enough income that they can afford to lose a couple grand a year, but it keeps them "busy").
SW fell in neither of the above categories, and after getting in over her head she was diverting the family's limited disposable income to keep her MLM head just below the water line. Some months she was buying $800 packages in order to keep getting $400 toward a car lease payment!
And similar to a chronic gambler, she kept thinking that the next month would be the one that she scores a big client, or her downline hits it big and she moves up, as long as she stayed in the game and hung in. Or, by constantly going "live" and holding calls, and travelling at her own expense to Thrive events, that she would be noticed as a big player in the company, but being completely blind to the fact that only 1% people in the scheme make any discernable profit.
90% of people who join a particular MLM quit within a few years. SW was rapidly approaching the end and her desperation was showing. There wasn't any more money to divert--pulling Chris' 401(k) was the last measure. The well was dry--and one absolutely cannot discount the financial pressure as a main contributor to the horrible events that occurred.
Del_Boca_Vista_4eva
ReplyDelete4 days ago
I want to say this here because you explain the upline and downline dynamic. Addy Maloney is seen as a great friend to SW. She was a key player in the police investigation while it was ongoing. It bothers the hell out of me.
Addy is part of SWs upline if im not mistaken. She is somebody's upline. She had been with LeVel for about 3 years before SW signed up. She is the wife or a Dr.
Thrive was an expensive hobby for Addy. She had the financial means to play the "jet set, byob (be your own boss), high end SAHM" that Shanann wanted to be, so badly.
In a batch of police notes, Addy tells an officer that SW wouldn't have been making much money at this stage of her relationship with LeVel. I will bet every hair on my head that Addy never disclosed that little piece of info to SW. She played "friend" to Shanann, encouraging her to stick with LeVel despite Addy admitting that she sort of knew that the Watts were struggling financially. She knew that they couldn't afford the lifestyle that SW was reaching so far and so irresponsibly for, month after month.
Christina, Nikki, Shanann, Cassie, were all equals in my mind. On the leVel pyramid. They were all young moms that were from middle or lower income classes and they all had delusions of fancy cars and beach houses.
Addy had fancy cars and houses and a dr husband and she had invested in LeVel early in its inception so she had no worries. Yet all around her, families were falling apart and going broke trying to live like her because she told them it was attainable. Shes a f*cking liar.
Sharp_Salamander0111
5 days ago
Oh Del..I cannot wait to finish what I'm doing and grab a beer and delve in. This timeline brings to mind a NK interview I think that Plunder has *NK 7 PAGE . I'll double check when I sit down. It's stated that cw told nk that the marriage had been meh but the meh accelerated in the last 2 years (meh is my wording). The last 2 years would correlate the timeline you present here!!!!!! Omg!
Here is the link, I'm tied up and can't listen to find the spot that mentions that the marriage declined "in the last 2 years"
https://youtu.be/DMvr8WgwUC0
Sharp_Salamander0111
ReplyDelete4 days ago
Wow. She slid down the mlm hole didn't she?
In the video I linked above at about 15 minutes nk said she asked cw how long his marriage had been going down. He said 6 years, but in the last 2 their relationship had begun to really deteriorate. So, in nk's list to police cw said 2 years which would be summerish 2016. She began thrive in 2016. So his statement to nk and sw involvement in level begin the major unraveling of their relationship.
eatmorechiken
4 days ago
This is good work! I’m guessing Shanann began sliding because of the pressure MLMs put on promoters. In order to keep moving up the chain and to hang on to whatever bonuses/payment she has gotten this far, Thrive would’ve mandated more recruitments and more sales. To hang on to what you have, you have to do at least the same amount of sales every month plus more recruiting (recruits who then buy the Thrive junk to sell).
I’m sure the pressure of it was weighing on her. Fistfuls of recruits are needed every month just to keep your pay. She seemed like she really wanted to make it work, so she was probably feeling the pressure. Promoters don’t accept that the promise of “unlimited income” they signed up for isn’t possible. At all.
Del_Boca_Vista_4eva
5 days ago
She seemed so down to earth and naturally a little nervous in front of the camera, at first. But that doesn't last long. I think the real change is when she hits the 40k status with LeVel. It boosts her confidence. And her ego. Shit goes downhill. 2017 is a real shit show. It gets worse. And even worse, still.
They are, by all appearances, a normal family until the latter months of 2016. I believe SW had NPD and when combined with her initial "success" with this slimy MLM, she let's her delusions of grandeur tear her family to bits. Financially, emotionally and finally, physically. Its really too tragic.
dixiedewdrop26
ReplyDelete5 days ago
Very nice job, so interesting. I have no idea how many people she usually had on these live streams, but how they could endure 15 minutes of Shanann talking about Shanann is a mystery. Seeing them in order like this is revealing and fascinating. I will say, though - the MLM party she was planning sounds bizarre and really chaotic.
Del_Boca_Vista_4eva
4 days ago
It's normally the same people. I think I counted maybe 10-15 different names in the combined 2 years that she has documented. They aren't all on at the same time very often and a lot of the time, it's her parents watching the live videos.
CheapBlackGlasses
5 days ago
Great post OP! I can’t wait for part 2! The MLM aspect of this case was a huge reason this family met such a tragic end. MLM’s are so toxic. Its unfortunate that the Netflix documentary didn’t touch on it at all. Thrive took a hold of Shanann in a big way. She no longer had time for her kids or her husband. All that mattered was projecting a certain image. It completely consumed her.
Del_Boca_Vista_4eva
5 days ago
It really bothers me that LeVel has made money because of this case. No one has called them out on their gross business practices. I am convinced that without LeVels influence in their lives, they would still be alive. Thank you so much for the compliment!
LeVel damaged this family and there's barely a word mentioned about them in the docs, etc.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WattsOffTopic/comments/n73y3a/shananns_slippery_slope/
Medusas__Gaze
ReplyDelete4 hours ago
Theres a part in the WI confession where Coder asks him to clarify how he killed the girls. From the absence of sound he seems to be demonstrating how he did it, then Coder understands. Unfortunately the covert video they took was never released, only the audio. So we will never get to see what or if he acted it out. My interpretation is that Chris put one hand over the mouth and the other around the neck using his body weight to pin Bella against the back seat. I don't believe he used any force around the neck, the autopsy doesn't support that anyway, but I think he just held her there. And that's why he uses strangling and smothering interchangeably. Interestingly, the reason smothering is used as a definitive cause of death for Bella is because of her mouth injuries. On Ceces autopsy the wording is different. The coroner could only say "probable" cause of death was smothering for her because Cece did not have any external or internal injuries and there was no petechiae.
I believe Cece was dead before they left the house. But he didn't want to admit that (or that he attempted their murder inside the house) in that WI interview. So he is trying to make-believe he also killed Cece in the truck and this is where he trips over himself with the terminology.
tnih
12 hours ago
He's definitely a liar. But why lie about something that makes you look worse? He hadn't seen the video they were referring to. For all he knew, it was black and white, clear as day, and irrefutable. In that setting, he may have felt caught, so just admitted it.
MrNowhereDan
8 hours ago
But why lie about something that makes you look worse?
Perhaps because CW has risibly dressed up his appalling acts of inhumanity into a good vs evil morality play. In Cadle p.215, CW describes the "dark spirit" that spontaneously exorcised itself out of him on August 15th, assuming "the form of his maternal grandparents". If Bella and CeCe are alive until Cervi, not only does CW believe he'll look impulsive rather than calculating, but also that he'll look more heroic for having held out against the murderous spirit for longer, before succumbing to its murderous designs.
BabadookShook
5 hours ago
I requested the video direct from Weld DA so I know my copy is original and hasn't been manipulated by You Tubers. The shadow is 100% there and, in my eyes, the fact he bends down proves even further that it was a child.
NotBadSinger514
8 hours ago
I think all 3 confessions contained some bit of truth and a lot of lies. Its obvious in the third confession that he has seen or heard about the Nate video and is trying to paint a new narrative using that as "his evidence" while trying to cover lies and odd behavior. He STILL has not told us the truth. That's the only truth I know besides actual factual evidence which points to missing texts, premeditation and if not an accomplice, someone who helped him plan it.
Clean-Advertising-67
7 hours ago
In the video though it did look as if he was scooping up a small child, I seen this with my own eyes and why would he make himself look even worse? Prior to the Feb2019 interview then I truly believed that he had drugged them and then smothered them with a pillow or something whilst they were knocked out, whilst that’s horrific in itself then it’s far more humane and shows a certain level of caring enough that they wouldn’t suffer, and that they had really just went to bed and never woke up. I think one of the kids was already dead at the house and I do believe that one was killed at the oil site, and it’s due to that scooping up in the video.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Chriswatts/comments/nb4hdo/why_do_so_many_believe_him/
Juanita Richards
ReplyDelete4 weeks ago
I believe he pinned her arms down while lying on her from behind and he tried to smother her by forcing her face down into the pillows first - her make up was smeared all over the pillow cases and even some of her eyelashes were embedded into the fabric. Her face was likely thrashing back and forth and she was not dying quick enough so he then got her in a choke hold from behind (she had bruising along her jaw which indicates a choke hold) and she would have been unconscious within seconds after that and dead very quickly. It is possible that Bella heard a commotion and walked in on this scene. I feel she was chased down and tried to hide under her bed and was dragged out, which is why the trauma dog reacted so strongly beside her bed. And we know that tiny girl fought for her life. She had defensive wounds on her hands and arms, wounds on her heels, a bruise on her left shoulder, as well as the mouth and tongue injuries.
https://youtu.be/JYruuh122zc
Susan Barnett wrote:
ReplyDelete@Truth Justice I think you’re right. I will admit I am a member of that channel. Crafton is from Memphis. I’m from Memphis. My son’s best friend worked at a bar with Crafton for a long time. They are great friends. He told me to watch Crafton because he plays a lot of Memphis music that I would be familiar with. So I joined them. Just recently, all this has started going down. I joined that live last night but fell asleep about 15 minutes in. I had to play catch up last night. I didn’t know what to think. I don’t watch Bleather’s channel at all. Something about her voice. It’s like fingernails on a chalkboard. I knew however, about why she was called Bleather and for that reason I didn’t care for her. After listening to it, and hearing their explanation for all this, I’m more confused as ever about her role in all this. I don’t know why she would be surprised that AD threw her under the bus. Look at what he has done to everyone else. She went along with the Blair ruse. The fact that he did that should have been the first clue that he could not be trusted. Why would you trust him. Also, I saw in her community posts a couple of weeks ago that she had this breaking news about her conversations with CW that she was going to share with Dave and AD, but of course save some for her own channel. The next thing you know, Dave is coming out with his big bombshell. That night or next day MRB has her big reveal with the Rzucek’s on which I thought was just an extension of what Dave had. I assumed that all the rest of what she read was actually what AD and Bleather would have read, eventually, but instead somehow MRB got a hold of it. I find out how MRB got the info. Now they’re talking about this Kim G person is really behind it and is rumored to be writing a book with the info, and that all Bleathers notes were about her series on Cadles book. Crafton’s girlfriend Kim said she checked the notes and the time stamps all line up to support that. She said she checked because she even had doubts. I’m so confused. All I want is these channels like AD and the ones that post stuff like him to GO!!I don’t care what they do to each other, but it would be nice to understand all this. Is there really a Kim G? Did she really take all these notes? I watch Unmasked. This past week they tried to explain it. But they were as confused as I am. But at the end of the discussion she said “you can believe what you want but isn’t it convenient that all these notes fit the narrative that others have been setting up for a while now?” Which is exactly what I thought when MRB was reading through them.
CONTINUED...
DLV wrote:
DeleteAll these other channels supporting Bleather? That's fine, whatever - glad to see them all turning on Alan. But just sayin', uhm...these channels do realize that Bleather did indeed fabricate all those letters/script for distribution, DON'T THEY??? Again, glad to see them all turn on Alan but Bleather is certainly not a victim in all this. Alan simply discarded her once she was caught being the "technical wizard" 😒 behind the letters scam.
Truth Justice wrote:
Oh there's no doubt but think about it, they're not revealing her lies they're just defending her as one of them in the community they see ad as somebody who turned his back on her to save his own ass and raked on money off her. It's also a known fact that he encouraged her to lie about her job and her looks. And for some reason this drives them crazy 🤣🤣
Truth Bomb wrote:
Whoaaaa! What a twist in the past days! The lord thought others would join the bandwagon by throwing Bleather under the bus. Blarry wised up, jumped ship, threw Bleather & AD 2.0 under the Bus. Then Dave cried about being a SO b/c of his asperger & was blackmailed by Blarry. Others all gathered to support Bleather including KK! It's going to be a shitshow on Bleather show tonight! 😂😂😂
@DLV Think he said on AD he was unemployed during COVID so don't know what his real delivery package job is. Something's been off about Wombat from the start with all the name calling of women then playing the victim. He said "Truthers need to F off!" There's no room for a SO with an unhealthy obsession with NK who spews vitrol with a filthy mouth. Certainly, this dude must have more skeletons in his closet.
DLV wrote:
@DLV and a former professional golf caddy! You got to be a serious liability to get barred from professional golf.
@Anam Cara Same!! My radar went up immediately regarding him. There is something seriously wrong with that dude. Hey, I'm no NK fan...but to hear the way he spoke with such venom about NK - calling her a ducking cow through gritted teeth. It was seriously scary and creepy to listen to. I don't think it's just NK. I think he secretly hates ALL women with a passion and is a danger to women in intimate situations. It is no surprise to me that he has two charges of SA on his record. In all likelihood, he's a former postal worker, with a record like that.
CONTINUED...
Alyssa H wrote:
DeleteSeems like Seeking the Cash should be Seeking Help with the Truth Angel instead! No wonder he has such seething hatred for women. Oh, and the superchats that kepT rolling in with his pathetic asperger excuse for everything! Un f-ing believable! How can women support this vile creepy SO?
Truth Justice wrote:
It seems that they're more pissed off over the fact that he made a ton of money off of her and then threw her under the bus. 🙄🙄🙄
Kybele Kordax wrote:
so Bleather's defended by channels that have a vested interest in continuing the saga of lies about the case? A lot of fraudsters getting together it seems.
AD is awful but so are the rest of them. RedKim is a paying subscriber of Bleather's channel which means she is going to side with her regardless of whether Bleather has perpetrated fraud and those with sense now Bleather has done this. RedKim also seems to be defending Dave for allegedly being a SO by defending the fact he has some kind of claimed Asperger's?
di Rigeur wrote:
@Kybele Kordax Hi Kybele Kordax! I have been wanting to say for a while now that I always enjoy reading your comments and learn quite a lot from your insights and observations. Thank you for the knowledge that you share. I also want to say that in case you are interested, on Jenetic Code's channel, under her video "You have been served", in the Comments section, there is a thread on Seeking-the-Cash-with-Davey. One can see his record via Google. Also, on this video of TJ's, there is also a thread on aforementioned. Again, a sincere Thank You to you for what I learn from you via your comments.
DLV wrote:
DeleteHe is so phony. It's all about the money with him. Constantly promoting his 💰 "members-only" chats and links to his stupid radio station or whatever tf it is. I can't stand the sight of him nor his obnoxious sidekick.
Frankie Rzucek Jr. wrote:
@DLV yes ma'am. I found that out very fast. He acted liked he cared and then seen more subs equals mo money so he just went with what made him popular. Sucks because I actually thought he was pretty funny.
Ella Bella wrote:
So Krafton and this Kim reckon this “ script” is just Blair’s notes she’s taking which researching Cadles book and it was never a script 🤔 Rubbish ! Blair was pretending to talk every night to the murderer so I can never believe Blair hasn’t done anything.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9V0-K8WWk8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClaahqF1VqE
Advidadmin8091
ReplyDeleteDamn i was falling for the ( my credibility part) until ypu say a.d. was lied to...think about this..who created Heather (and others)...A.D. is a conman so if you are all about him ..birds of a feather flock together...is it more likely A.D. did this..
Ian T
Sorry I don't believe any of the creators who were using Blair/unmurdered communications with CW to support their own theories did not know these communications were false. The initial coorlink e mails supposedly from CW that Blair produce were so blatantly photoshopped that a 2 year old could tell they were fake.
Anyone who dared to call out these communications as false was labelled a troll and blocked from their channel.
The creator who's been claiming to be in contact with CW via Blair to conveniently validate all of his theories was 100% aware they were fake but continued to exploit this for 6 months by drawing subs into "exclusive" content behind a paywall ie Patreon.
Doesn't take Einstein to work out who' I'm referring to does it?!
@Executive Session Larry i wasn't referring to you as to my knowledge you've never used Blairs false communication with Watts to support you're own narrative or build content off the back of it. I'm obviously referring to Armchair Detective, who milked it for a good 6 months and now plays all innocent that this has all been exposed - it was obvious from the start!
Brad G
You gotta think Heather has something on Dave, I have no clue why he is insisting on going down with that ship. And Dave really said yesterday Heather never sent him any info ? Seriously?! And now he’s claiming that the Lindstrom‘s ‘have something to do with the murders ? Guy has completely went off the rails
Dave 💯 knows , Heather probably has some incriminating messages from him that he doesn’t want her to put out. There is no way he would just ignore ppl like Larry and Cher and turn his back on them just bc he doesn’t want to admit Heather is a fraud. They have had his back from the jump.
Jestcy
The reason people gave heather ANY time of day is because A/D promotes the hell out of her. If she’s fake, which I believe that she is, then that means that A/D has known all along. He went out of his way to literally convince his subscribers of how real she was. I followed him from the very start but I’m done with him. He’s another one who’s gotten extremely arrogant, and lies. It’s because of Heather that I won’t watch him anymore.
https://youtu.be/2FvmvLd8vT0
Husband of Jeanne Dietz posts in r/cringe thead about CW (account was suddenly deleted):
ReplyDelete“Wish I was lying. She was our Nanny in Charlotte before our second was born. After the birth, we moved to Denver. By that time, my wife and her were good friends. They came out to visit and loved it. I helped Chris find his job at Longmont Ford. They lived with us for about a year while they got settled. They got married in Charlotte shortly after. My wife was her maid of honor. After a year, they moved to Frederick. Then Shanann got realllly into that Thrive MLM which my wife wanted nothing to do with and they drifted a bit. It absolutely fucked up my kids who now deal with extreme anxiety. I promise one thing you never want your kids asking you is if you'll kill them some day too.”
TheSamhainWitch
His last message to you, edited 22 mins ago as of now, says: Thanks. We stayed away from the phone calls, reporters, authors, etc for a long time, but enough time has passed that I'm cool talking about it if you really are curious about something. You can PM me.
Punta Cana
The thing that surprises me is that them drifting apart is not at all any of the various things that people have been speculating about. It's simply Thrive. He didn't even have much bad (or anything) to say about Shanann. We can make the assumption that he didn't want to come across as a bad guy criticizing a murdered pregnant woman, but... We'd still have to make that assumption. Based only on what he said and what wasn't said, the rift between them was Thrive.
Playcrackersthesky
I was skeptical to believe his comments when the video of CW showed up on r/cringe.
But a quick look at his comment history showed a photo posted long ago that sure looks like JD.
Of importance, he said that when SW and kids went missing he told his wife they should check CW’s gps.
He also said his kids are still in therapy dealing with it. And that’s honestly something I never imagined. The kids I once nannied for were traumatized when their teachers fiancé went missing and was subsequently found dead by homicide. I never considered the impact this might have had on JD’s kids, who not only had SW as a nanny; the Watts lived in their basement for a year!
He subsequently deleted his account, despite saying enough time had passed and he felt comfortable discussing the case is people wanted to PM him. I wonder if he got bombarded or if he regretted going public. (Or if he saw I participated in this sub and nope’d the fuck out.)
Either way; interesting that he said that about CW as soon as SW and the kids went missing.
bedhead4465
I don't think he deleted his account. His account can be traced back via your comment history...
Playcrackersthesky
If that’s the case, I would implore people not to message him since he deleted all of his comments about the care and I’m guessing people were badgering him.
When I clicked back on his comments his username displayed as [deleted] so I assumed he nuked his account. It appears he just deleted some of his comments on the topic.
onions-make-me-cry
DeleteTo answer your question, basically the only explanation he offered for knowing to check the truck GPS is that Jeanna watches enough True Crime he knew that it would either incriminate Chris or absolve him.
He followed the therapy statement up with "I promise one thing you never want your kids to ask is if you are going to kill them too".
RBAloysius
Kids feed off their parents’ emotions. If either one of the parents were inadvertently freaking out about the murders (no blame or judgment here, I am sure it was unbelievably shocking & upsetting), the kids may have picked it up. Children are more tuned in to their parents’ vibes than people realize.
I have an acquaintance who is constant drama & always upset, enraged, or hyped up about one thing or another. Sadly, her 8 year old is the same way. My SIL is about the chillest person I know & so are her children. Kids, especially aged preteen & under, take many cues from their parents.
Didn’t JD work at the same hospital as SW? If this is correct, what was JD’s position? Also, was it a children’s hospital? TIA!
SeeMeInACrown_
Read my post entitled “Just Like Jeanna”. It will answers all of your questions pertaining to this subject.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WattsOffTopic/comments/o3u5b2/husband_of_jeanne_dietz_posts_in_rcringe_thead/
ReplyDeletePumped Up Kicks wrote on youtube:
A little background behind behind the names truthers & shiners in the context of Watts Island, from a semi retired OG.
The truthers is the name gave to the group's that go after AD and other creators for varying reasons. They are mainly ex subs and some claim to have been duped or been abused. Some support the family and want the lies and conspiracies about the case to stop but that's not everyone's motive and are not all united.
There are big divides between some of these channels resulting in a long stand civil war.
AD has termed anyone who speaks out about him or debunks him as a hate channel.
Shiners was the name given to those who support Shannan, who won't have a bad word said against her character. There were a tribute groups & channels but those have mainly gone inactive now.
Shiners are now spread across most TC channels who support Shannan, so you could have Shiners on AD, CTD, Ramblings, Rocket science, Truth channels.
BOISEBOZ wrote on youtube:
I’m trying to follow this web of deceit and games I know who Heather is with Unmurdered and she’s been denying that she was the master mind of all this idiocracy but who is Jana?? I’ve only watched Heather a couple of times because I don’t find her very credible and her voice is truly annoying. Then when she started bashing AD, who she reached out to and he gave her a name which she then spun into her own channel. I always have felt she had an agenda from the beginning so no surprise that she’s going to try and ruin the creator she came up from🙄
TBH this whole scandal has put me off of Watts and refocused my time on existing cases like Morphew, Stauch, the missing CA boys, Murdaugh and new missing children cases like Summer Wells.
I’m burned out by the hamster wheel of this case and unless there is a new arrest I’m done.
Bubbles, AD's chief researcher and creator of his videos, revealed recently that she is talking to Cindy Watts.
ReplyDeleteAmy OBehave
Fast forward to present time! I have to just say that listening to this just proves without a doubt that the Watts and their supporters are down right terrible. One of the El's (Mel and Kel) in this video says something really telling. She repeats over and over "Nobody won." I have always felt that the Watts have treated this like a competition, over who has it worse, who was worse, etc. I have also seen just about equal crap talk about both families, about TV interviews, money, and social media.
I'm just talking about Shanann's parents and Chris's parents, not siblings. The Rzuseks have been 1000 times more respectful than the Watts and when people keep saying poor Cindy and Ron, it's absurd! Sandy and Frank haven't really said anything negative about Chris and he murdered their only daughter and grandbabies!
Now Cindy and Ronnie have disrespected them many times and terribly. One of the El's also speaks of the Watts not having money , and don't have GoFundMe like OTHER PEOPLE, and that the Watts have turned down people offering money (YA FKN RIGHT) but slipped they dont want ANYMORE money.
People concern themselves with the Rzuseks getting more money than the Watts, so what! If who was dealt a more tragic blow was measured by money than the Rzuseks trillions to Watts thousands?? I think that's accurate and more than fair, because they were livid at the woman who spoke for them at the hearing and said what they should of said. Not poor Chris, we love you and not ONE word about their grandchildren, or even acknowledge the Rzuseks who were in such anguish (we seen Frank Sr Sr looked so broken).
Sandy and Frank also donated portions of money they have received to charity (Frankie jr. was mad at them for it). After fighting for the insurance money (they don't deserve) Ron and Cin treat the worst of the worst Shanann bashers on a trip, and a bunch of BS to make sure the Rzuseks stay in agony.
The Rzuseks should ignore social media BUT, they go to defend Shanann from bashers; the Watts go on social media searching for groups and people who talk shit about Shanann, the worse and most cruel, the better.
CONTINUED...
The Watts act like they only lost Chris and it's worse than the Rzuseks losing their Shanann and the babies because Chris murdered them.
DeleteI am sorry this is so long, I can go on and on but I will stop. People can comment calling me a "Shiner" lol I think it's hilarious they think that's insulting and that telling them they're wrong for saying nasty crap about a murder victim is wrong, and that it's not about sides, who got more money or sympathy, it's about the way each family has dealt with this tragedy and the Watts have been atrocious.
Thank you Kay for showing the facts of what has really went on and keeping it real. I'm sorry this family roped you in and tried to use you and when they couldn't, they went scouring for the next victim of their crazy BS. It's their loss because if there's anyone I'd want in my corner who is brave, knows their shit and has a voice, it's definitely you! Again, I'm sorry this comment is so long, I hardly comment, let alone 10,000 word essays! Lol. This case and the "players in the game" are fkd up!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bn3MLHq9ZM
Anna J.
ReplyDeleteLarry - you are a great guy! It's been hard watching you take so much heat these past few months! The false accusations by Kim and Crafton of extortion is the worst of them all and for Dave to perpetuate that with them is disgusting because it's just his tactic to try to make you look bad when in fact he himself is the worst type of character.
As an Australian, who works in the Autism Spectrum field as a therapist, I can confirm to you that Dave is lying about his diagnosis of Aspergers. Dave claims his GP diagnosed him with Aspergers but in Australia a GP does not diagnose these type of disorders - a specialist is who gives the diagnosis and it takes multiple sessions with them before the official class of spectrum is given to a client i.e. whether it's PDDNOS, Asperger's etc and even the sometimes non verbal toddlers are misdiagnosed with Autism when in fact they only have an auditory issue which can be resolved medically - it takes alot to get a diagnosis not just a GP appointment and it can change over time.
He is abusing and manipulating Kim by pretending to be Autistic - playing on her heart strings because she is a fantastic and amazing mother to a beautiful ASD son herself and that is so distressing watching Kim fall for it but she doesn't want to hear the truth...in fact, none of them want to hear the truth and that's why you are being attacked because you spoke the truth and put it all out there.
Dave is saying he has Asperger's so he can justify his atrocious behaviours, deflect when he is called out for it. And as someone who has many years experience across many clients across a huge age group.... Not one of my clients ever has remotely acted in the manner that Dave does - he is purely a manipulative, abusive narcissist and an embarrassment to Australia.
I've been extremely quiet whilst watching all of this happening.... My professional and compassionate approach has made me refrain from commenting all this time but I am commenting today because people (especially those who don't know about how Autism is diagnosed and managed here in Australia because they live overseas) need to know about Dave's lies. He is manipulative to his subs, viewers and especially towards Kim and also tried to manipulate you!
If in fact Dave has any disorders - the counselor he was seeing when he received his conviction for SA would have referred him to a specialist and Medicare would have covered part of his costs to do so, so he can get the best support possible. But I think he may be lying about that too... I feel so sorry for his victim ... She doesn't have a say and the comments supporting Dave on his SA conviction confession are just repulsive .... She is married - he never should have touched her in anyway at all!
CONTINUED...
The contract for his employment also has a clause in it about representing the company online and because he keeps telling people he works for them and then participating in vile, slanderous, abusive online behaviour - it will catch up with him one day and he is risking his job.
DeleteThey have a whistleblower hotline and anyone can call in and report his behaviour anonymously. He is constantly on live's whilst he is meant to be working which is another breach of his contract and also a risk to the worker's compensation scheme if he were to have an accident on the job - he is risking other people's safety whilst he is texting in the car on the way to and from work - it's illegal in Australia to text and drive and I've seen him do it so many times - hopefully QLD police will catch up with him.
Sorry that this is a long comment - it's been months of what I have wanted to say all wrapped up in an essay style comment.
Stay strong Larry - keep doing you - you have a great heart and a genuine soul!
Please feel free to not post my comment if you feel it will bring further negative attention to your channel - I don't want that for you. I wish you the very best - just hold your head high and know you were wiser to his ways and too genuine for politics!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IL1ddnNYq0
YTpsychMyths 2
Delete4 hours ago (edited)
They are saying it was a simple kiss and conveniently left out that he also groped the woman over her clothes. The diminishing of this makes me sick as a survivor myself.
Lori Collicott
2 hours ago
Proof??
Executive Session
1 hour ago
@Lori Collicott want proof? Watch his confession. Or I’ll post it.
Caroline D
1 hour ago
Look at his confession conveniently
Set to members only. No truth from truth Dave !!!!
Executive Session
58 minutes ago
@Caroline D exactly. But I have the full video downloaded.
Caroline D
55 minutes ago
@Executive Session just show it.
Hes still lying !!!!!
Executive Session
Delete51 minutes ago
@Caroline D I know. It’s ok. They’re scrambling and obsessed. They finally picked on the wrong person. And I don’t care if everyone unsubs to me. I don’t want those kind of supporters. It’s time for a reset.
iota
48 minutes ago
You DO NOT get arrested and CHARGED for flirting and kissing someone in Australia. His meek and mild softly spoken performance last night was a CON. The dude is repulsive, aggressive and revolting. I'll bet his victim has a different story.
iota
37 minutes ago (edited)
@Executive Session Why do they want everyone to unsub from you. Why? He confessed, he told everyone his dirty little secret. He did!
Why does the S.A King need spin doctors. He's a NOBODY
This whole thing is a distortion.
YTpsychMyths 2
26 minutes ago
@Lori Collicott It came from his own mouth. He privated the video last I heard
Jessica Parker-Jones
17 minutes ago
Yeah, I'm really disappointed about that. It's insulting to we the viewers.
YTpsychMyths 2
13 minutes ago
@Jessica Parker-Jones 💯 I'm more disappointed than anything. Its a shame coming from ppl I respected
Jessica Parker-Jones
11 minutes ago
@YTpsychMyths 2 big time.
iota
1 minute ago
@Executive Session Can you email me his confession? I'd like to send it to the Federal Government he talks so fondly about. As an Australian Taxpayer I expect ANY Federal employee to be doing their job, not on YouTube during work hours. Again in his OWN words all over YouTube He states he's at work.
Using a phone whilst in a vehicle is an offence. Your not allowed to even pick your phone up to look at the time whilst in a vehicle in Queensland Australia.
https://youtu.be/7IL1ddnNYq0?t=816
Sarah Jane
Delete18 hours ago
I saw part of the live where Dave said he had some type of offense - I missed the description of the offense -- he was really upset. Who is ‘The Dirt’??? How did all these battles start??? Why are folks attacking each other??? Have been focusing on Summer Wells - a real tragedy.
Executive Session
15 hours ago
It’s a mess. This is what happens when people with no experience or qualifications just start rambling without any regard for ethics or journalistic integrity.
There’s nothing to explain. I sent it to him to show my name on TikTok was “The Dirt”. That’s why I was suspicious of this person on YouTube when they used that name to attack both of us. Then he tried flipping it on me by saying because that’s my TikTok name then the YouTube “The Dirt” was me and I was trying to expose him. Total BS. Why would I alert him to it if it was me? Makes no sense. The person was trolling me, too! Not to mention that it’s irrelevant.
He’s the one convicted of sexual assault. If anyone should be mad at me, it should be because I continued to defend him and being his friend after he told me about it. We’re supposed to be true crime and people are supporting a sex offender that has zero intellect other than yelling at a screen and talking about NK and drama.
Georgie Argie
9 hours ago
@Shooting Stars & @ JW I’m from Sydney I was fooled by him for a short time. I can’t stand the man😳😳
Executive Session
1 hour ago
@DELANEY stop trolling and just go defend a Sexual Assaulter that lied and teamed up with two jobless trolls. I’m done being nice. You’re not the kind of person I want support from anyway. Bye
Executive Session
1 hour ago
@Perry Knight my true stripes are that I’m done. I told the truth and in a so-called true crime community, there’s a tiny group that chooses to defend a sexual offender and two crazy people from Jersey. It’s kind of funny.
Did you hear their 4am live? First, who gets to go live at 4am that’s supposed to be a lawyer? Ffs. They’re unemployed weirdos. They aren’t true crime or any niche. They’re bored. They attack and gaslight. They try to spin. They went on about some psychotic break that I never mentioned nor knew about. They say in one breath that I attack women but when I went for a Crafton and Dave, both little babies sat back and let Kim yell and defend them.
This show is over. Close the curtain. Anyone left that defends that, please just leave my channel now. I’d rather have 5 subs than a million that support that mess.
Executive Session
Delete1 hour ago
@Jessica Parker-Jones he literally stated he grabbed her boobs. It wasn’t just a kiss. I have the video and others that he told. Not to mention, he started this by accusing me of threatening to expose it. Which was a blatant lie. He admitted it. He was convicted of it. I defended him. But I won’t be lied about because a few people that fancy themselves PR specialists used him and it’s backfiring. No. They will have to be held accountable. Again, this is true crime. He admitted to grabbing her boobs and was convicted of it. Not me. I’ve never been convicted of a crime in my life.
Executive Session
1 hour ago
@Jessica Parker-Jones and Jess, it will all make sense in time. Unlike them, I won’t ramble on YouTube. I said my part and kept it as classy as possible under the circumstances. The rest will be told in court and a full, professional documentary
Jessica Parker-Jones
54 minutes ago
@Executive Session wtf? I can't even begin to keep up! I missed the boob comment completely and I apologize for that. I wonder if he's admitted that part publicly and I missed it? Not that it's any of my business, but if we're truth telling here, that shouldn't have been omitted from the story. 🤔 It's hard to get truth in this youtube world. 😕 In any case, I'm still completely bummed, and my advice is to just do you. I'm sure you agree!
iota
39 minutes ago (edited)
@Jessica Parker-Jones Do you honestly believe your arrested, charged and sentenced in a court of law for nothing. But it's all okay because you have a YouTube channel! Get a grip.
I can't even with these people.
Executive Session
39 minutes ago
@Jessica Parker-Jones I agree. And I’ve said my final take on this channel. They can lie and yell every night. The rest will play out in court. This channel will be content based from here on out.
Nic Kew
33 minutes ago
@Executive Session and this is where I re sub ....cant knock a man that is all about telling it straight (precious little of that round this community lately )
Jessica Parker-Jones
33 minutes ago
@iota I understand what you're saying, I'm just trying to sort through all the shite so it makes sense. This sucks.
https://youtu.be/7IL1ddnNYq0?t=1500
Lynne Stephenson
Delete18 hours ago
OK now I am completely confused Larry. You have to explain Dave's post on The Dirt.
Executive Session
15 hours ago
Nothing to explain. I sent it to him to show my name on TikTok was “The Dirt”. That’s why I was suspicious of this person on YouTube when they used that name to attack both of us. Then he tried flipping it on me by saying because that’s my TikTok name then the YouTube “The Dirt” was me and I was trying to expose him. Total BS. Why would I alert him to it if it was me? Makes no sense. The person was trolling me, too! Not to mention that it’s irrelevant. He’s the one convicted of sexual assault. If anyone should be mad at me, it should be because I continued to defend him and being his friend after he told me about it. We’re supposed to be true crime and people are supporting a sex offender that has zero intellect other than yelling at a screen and talking about NK and drama.
Lynne Stephenson
14 hours ago
@Executive Session Thank you for responding. I encourage you to check out Dave's post on this subject and my very unpopular message to him. I support you.
Kim NO NECK Cole
10 hours ago
I am so sorry myself and crafton made dave do that live. We don't have our own content so we need to jump on anything that might bring in the dollars. Its just a business after all.
Executive Session
1 hour ago
He admitted it. He was convicted. He stated he forcefully touched her boob. I never exposed those things nor did I threaten to. Not to mention… again, HE was convicted of those things. Not me. Not ever.
Dani Dan
DeleteI can't comment about the diagnosis side of your comment - but what I will say is, you nailed the professional conduct aspect. I would imagine if his line managers or HR department knew about his behaviour, his bullying, and the way he addresses people online, all whilst openly telling people he is a representative of their company, they would not be happy.
Look at even just the well known cases of the last year where people's behaviour online has cost them their jobs for participating in short online clips - central park Karen, grocery store Karen etc.
All resulting in immediate investigation and firing and their behaviour did not represent the company's morals and values.
Put it this way, if this man was coming to my home daily, I would not be happy, as he is incredibly aggressive, easily triggered, volatile, and shows serious aggression towards women in his ranting. I would not like to have him anywhere near me.
https://youtu.be/7IL1ddnNYq0
AD is begging for more money from his followers:
ReplyDeletehttps://youtu.be/2c4CENG-E_k
NoNyA BiZzNeSs
@AD, I was just thinking. This book and documentary venture you are undertaking. This is obviously going to make you and your colleagues money, correct? So, instead of asking people to donate to the cost of the books for you why don't you pre-sell them?
I mean, the way I look at it is.... the proceeds made from the book and documentary are not going to charity and if people are donating to the cost of the books AND then they are being sold after publication, then that's being paid TWICE for it.
I just think it's taboo to ask for money for something that is going to result in personal profit, especially double.
So, a pre-sale would be respectable. People will get something for their contribution to the start up.
Im not trying to be mean or anything like that. I just think you might get a better turnaround if you offer something in return.
https://youtu.be/A3TBNB9HJMs
AD did NOT discover the shadows. People talked about it before he made a video. Here is a example showing here on Reddit it was discussed almost a week before. Diane Hughes of Watt Do You See youtube channel found it. He blocked her after she posted in his group about it. She died this year so she can't speak out anymore (in May 2021).
ReplyDeleteDiane Hughes was the one who found the shadows and was posting about it asking people to take a look a couple weeks before his video. She even posted it in AD's Facebook group. He blocked her there and on his youtube after that. She died in May 2021, suddenly at home.
Carrie C
2 months ago (edited)
@Lauren W the recording while sleeping was freaky. Money is his only goal. He doesn't care what he does or says to get it. He turning his subs against the Rzueck's all because they've asked him to stop sensationalising the case and to stick to facts, but the facts won't get him the views or money. So he needs to make out he's the victim and that the Rzueck's are turning everyone against him, because he's too close to solving this solved case.
Clair Morgan
2 months ago
He’s not in contact with CW. He makes up emails and letters to ‘prove’ he’s getting coded messages from him 🙄. The spike on the 27th was when his moderator died, sadly. The reason he has these other channels is because he was demonetised for hate speech on his blue channel and he needed a back up channel to stream from. He live streams daily from all 3 channels and a patreon. Maximising his con. His Red channel is now a members only channel. Keeping the sensible people away 🤣. Desperate to be relevant.
Shuthemofoup
DeleteIMO, people are still interested/intrigued by this crime/case, because of all the lies CW has told. Also because of the way Kessinger was. She was deceitful and manipulative in all 5 interviews with the police. There are some who don't believe Shanann ever went to bed, had sex, an emotional conversation, etc.
Chris is non confrontational. He was petrified of Shanann. What does someone do when they don't want to face the truth? They hide from it. They get rid of it. They run from it. That is Chris. He knew he couldn't win with Shanann. So instead of confronting her, and being honest, he chose to just get rid of her, and everything that represented her. I hope he enjoys his life sentence!
https://www.reddit.com/r/Chriswatts/comments/ofjcqx/ad_did_not_discover_the_shadows_people_talked/
SnowBunny
Delete22 hours ago
This is exactly why Netta had her attorneys cancel a book deal with AD. She found out he was a scammer and he was promising the autograph and it was impossible to do so without it costing a fortune. That's why they have in person book signings. A preprinted autograph is not the same. Netta writes books then promotes her books. She doesnt have people pay money first. Nobody does it. You watch this will fall through as well once he has enough money for his poker slot. Cant believe people are willing to still throw money at this con artist. Times are hard people. Save your money. If you have extra to give then give it to those charities who truly use the money for good. If he cared he would say one half of his sells would go towards the Lupus foundation. Anyone can write a book for free. Dont send him money. Us people who have worked for him knows his intentions. That's why we are no longer there. It took some of us a bit to catch on. We left he didnt fire us. Infact we had to pay to work for him. Run while you can and request a refund. You wont get fame from AD. Only heartache.
I think this bubbles person is the person who use to go on line and play poker with AD that once was just a sub. I honestly think she is just as bad as he is. It wouldnt shock me if shes trying to get enough money for a poker tournament with AD. They are up yo no good.
Red Rum True Crime
16 hours ago
@SnowBunny I'm certain all his youtube contacts Inc chrissy and The Doctor are online poker associates whom knew him through poker and wanted to practice their poker faces scamming online and deceiving YouTube subs, just to see if they'd get away with it and pull in easy fast cash for themselves in the process!!
Canes Fan
23 hours ago
Bubbles, "What you can do is cancel your order"
The look on AD's face was absolutely priceless😁
What his subs aren't thinking about is the donations Must keep coming in. He is promising several books.
Bubbles is as giddy as a school girl on Prom night, thinking about the $$$ figures. 💃😁
Kybele Kordax
Delete23 hours ago
He has to pay Barnes & Nobles for any book they publish and he wants to do novellas focusing on himself which isn't going to sell. Yet he and Bubbles, the known fraudster, are asking subs to pay money at least two if not three times; once to "sponsor' the book and yet again to buy each novella with more to pay for him to autograph. What a scam!
Vanda
22 hours ago
In other words, they are milking money out of his followers.
1) Get money from sponsorship of book then...
2) Get more money from actual purchase of book (price differ according to paperback or hardcover).
IF indeed he is going with B&N, they will take a cut from each sale of book and there are printing costs incurred too. Therefore I feel AD is trying to recuperate those fees by ensuring he accumulates as much funds as possible to lay off those costings.
He & Bubba are being very careless because whatever is said from hereon on his channels regarding the book and documentary can be held against him when he fails to deliver on his given word.
Holly Smith
23 hours ago
And the website collects their payment and shipping details - so they now have your addresses to add to the rest of your personal data.
Canes Fan
Delete23 hours ago
@Holly...absolutely.
They will have your email, and address, they actually said that. From the address they will get phone numbers..
Then they will be harassed and stalked by phone, it's just Alan's MO.
Bubbles is putting on the persona of being the sweet innocent friend to the subs.
She is no more than a wolf in sheep's clothing.
Truth Justice
23 hours ago
I was talking to Barnes & Noble on a chat today they said what I was describing with him sounds like package for first time authors. I sent them the information about him throwing their name around like they're back in him. There are a lot of stipulations before they'll carry his book that he'll pay for by the way 🤣🤣
I don't think they're even thinking straight anymore like I said last week they've lost touch with reality. They're playing to the base and taking their money but it's all happening like the case happened on the police cam we're sitting back watching this whole thing.
easypeasyart . com
23 hours ago
Let me get this straight. People are paying for a book that has not been written yet ? Or not published yet ? Either way pretty dumb way to throw away money, would rather wipe my ass with it at least it had some use this way.
Truth Justice
23 hours ago
And it'll actually say written by him 🙄
Buffalo Bangs
Delete23 hours ago
@Truth Justice AD has said on his channel that he is dyslexic and can’t write because of it (his explanation as to why he couldn’t have been the author of the “script” – Heather’s notes on her fake phone calls with CW.
Alycia Marie
23 hours ago
Wait... $100 for a paperback book that isn’t real? But she can pay more for a hard copy! I mean these two have balls!!!! How can his subs believe this crap?! I mean come on!!!! 😆😆🤷♀️
Roberta Armour
23 hours ago
He said in one of his videos it’s going to be a small book so is it Novella or a Novelette? As he said there will be many of them. Methinks he’s going to come unstuck I think this might be one con to many.
Holly Smith
22 hours ago
Someone asked for the name of his lawyer and accountant last night and not surprisingly they were completely ignored.
Cornish Girl
22 hours ago
$100 for a paper back book.. Gosh this subs needs there head testing.. Stephen King's books are way less.. Plus you don't need a publisher until you have written a book.. lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQ7kDsa8G24
Frankie Rzucek Jr
Delete3 days ago
@Truth Justice he is the grandmaster manipulator himself. The biggest fraud/conman I've EVER seen. Makes me physically ill.
@Truth Justice can you believe crazy kay was just at my sisters house drooling lol. I wish I didn't know this evil existed. I wish I was still naive to the disgusting world of social media. Id do anything to go back in time and be there when my sister got home and beat the snot outta cw, we would have never been part of this online hate, bullying and torment. My God I'd do anything to just have my family instead if these EVIL PATHETIC PIECES OF SH!T.
They make me so sick.
Butterfly Sword
ReplyDeleteBtw Heather as he came in around 8:53 I noticed that Dave called someone a troll and I thought I also saw that he told your Mods to block them (it is freezing chat when I try to pause). He also thanked someone for being good in chat as if it were his place to oversee it. Then covered by making a self-deprecating remark; this boy is good...
I would strongly advise you to tell your Mods not to take direction from other creators, although of course the given reason will be that he was simply being helpful.
There are turf wars going on under the surface and if you read up on power and control games, a tiny incursion like that is how the thin end of the wedge looks when someone wants to create a toehold on your channel. Possibly you being female makes him perceive you as a soft target? (He certainly seems quite misogynistic, much more than the normal Australian man.)
For example, as you may know from your Justice studies, prisoners who want to gain a hold over one of the guards will begin by going just a hairbreadth over one of the boundaries, asking for a light or a slightly personal question.
Having observed Dave since the beginning, I suggest you keep him firmly in his box as a guest, and make it clear to your moderators that at all times, it's your channel, your rules. Whether that is in agreement with the guests or not.
ETA Btw, I can't stand Reel Justice myself, it's the principle!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhOVMHucp6o
Nicole McGregor Shone
DeleteWith absolute respect to you, Larry, I honestly feel that Dave shouldn't have been as overbearing in YOUR live. Not only is it distracting but he's literally speaking over you, which undermines the professionalism of your channel. Most of us are aware of your integrity, your intelligence and achievements...don't let that be diluted.
Dave, you're still a newbie too...try not to blow out anyone else's light in order to make yourself shine brighter. No meanness intended. Egos need to settle before taking over others channels.
Dipsy_laa-laa
ReplyDeletePffftt...all those supposed verifications supporting an alibi for NK seem completely fabricated. Note the absurd level of detail.
Something a diehard NK supporter/defender would spout off about to try to clear poor innocent NK 🙄, although with no hard evidence to back up these oddly specific claims.
Meaningless hearsay. Just a defender throwing out unsupported "facts" and hoping the power of persuasion makes the average person buy into it. As if stating something with absolute conviction makes it true.
Funny how NONE of this information that would have helped to clear NK ended up in the discovery.
ETA: How could she have arrived at work at 6:33? That in itself is disinformation (a blatant LIE!) NK's phone pinged in Frederick at 6:16am. It takes longer than 17 minutes to get to the Anadarko office from Frederick (and that's not even accounting for any traffic and walking from the parking lot to inside the building up to the office.) It's a stupid statement anyway because we know she most likely was not there that morning because SHE NEVER CLOCKED IN that day.
rkt88
NK says in her interviews that she doesn’t have a work cell. Only the field workers get one. Anadarko paid her phone bill because she used it for work, but it was her cell phone. This is detailed in the report as well. This is also why NK had to give over her phone to investigators even when Anadarko was already doing a data dump— they wouldn’t have access to NKs personal phone data.
MartinJDeehan is one of those NK defenders who spouts off specific claims with no hard evidence to back it up.
DeleteFor example, he wrote on youtube:
It's not Jim that was NK's alibi the night and morning of the 13th. Look up her address in Northglenn. It's a gated community with a gate, security guards. There's CCTV cams everywhere and ever apt has "smart homes". You can't fake that stuff you know. Unless you cut off your thumb and let someone use that...If you check with Nancy Grace, it's an article with Nance calling Weld county regarding NK.
The answer is the same as stated by the FBI. NK has an alibi the whole morning, They knew exactly where she was from Sunday evening until she drove past the guards at 5.56 am. She was seen by 12 coworkers arriving work at 6.33. It's impossible that she could have been at Saratoga trails (it's a 25 minute ride from where she lived.)
I had a look inside one of those apt. and the smart home system looked like the one I've got. It register when the entrance door is opened/shut, there's motion sensors that start the cameras if the door is closed from the outside. And fingerprint sensor to control the main hub. You can't just get a friend to "pretend to be you". These systems are directly related to home insurance. I own my house, but even then I would have a really hard time manipulating things in there. She rented her apt, which means she would have less options.
The reason I went through everything regarding NK, was because there are Youtube channels who speculate in "what NK did, Was she an accomplish, did she order the murder etc". The truth is that on my way looking into everything, I realized all the myths attached to her, It's ridiculous.
CONTINUED...
People keep talking about someone searching for Shanann on her phone in 2017. Well, as she states in the 2nd interview - it was Anadarko's phone. They paid the bills also. In other words, she got the Iphone 6 + the sim card the 4th of April 2018.
DeleteAll activity before this date had to be done by the person using the phone and sim card before she got it. Which again explains why she deleted "raunchy messages". I mean... I could go on and on.
However, I speak to Frankie on a daily basis. Here's what he had to say: "Don't you think we were on FBI's back to check absolutely everything possible regarding this woman? I personally had briefings with FBI almost on a daily basis.
CONTINUED...
The truth is, they never found even the smallest thing that would indicate she was involved in any way" She's a home wrecker, but that's all" (Keep in mind that he has seen a whole lot more evidence than any of us ever will).
DeleteWhen the Rzuceks are 100% sure she wasn't involved, then that's all I need to know.
I guarantee you that the FBI has footage of her entering the parking lot, driving to the gate (probably confirmed by the guards) There's a security system that register all vehicles passing named Transcore smartpass 4 (look up the address and you'll see it) There are 4 cams pointing in the direction of all vehicles passing the gate. While the Transcore reads the autopass (normally placed on the left side of the front window).
CONTINUED...
Then start imagine NK sneaking unseen out into her father's truck (which had to be parked outside sight of all the surrounding cams) Drive to Saratoga. Then returning unseen back into her apt. Keep in mind, using the door is not an option. So a ladder up to the kitchen window had to be used...I mean.. it's like one of the Ocean's movies.. Since her front door was locked, she would have to swing through the ceiling to avoid the movement sensors.. Forget it. It never happened.
DeleteThe fact that you probably hear about this for the first time now, isn't that a bit strange? Type in her old address 12255 Claude CT, Northglenn, Colorado... And start to look around (the guards are placed in the building behind the parked card. NB The gate is closed outside business hours).
Before anyone tries to convince you a REALLY blurry pixelated shows a woman with a ponytail, take in consideration what she had to get through just to sneak out of her apartment. Because before any LE will even consider what a CCTV frozen image shows, her alibi needs to be picked to pieces. The fact that no "True crime" channels have even considered starting at that end, tells me that their best off speculating. Throwing out accusations to draw in people.
That's my opinion anyway.
Martin Deehan (his band is The Yum Yums, or so it seems) has taken Frankie Rzucek Jr under his wing.
DeleteMartin Deehan
1.8K subscribers
https://www.youtube.com/c/JohnMartinsen1/videos
Martin Deehan
920 subscribers
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6_h1fyQDlmnv6vapHCb3aA/videos
Jonizzio
DeleteWhat if she parked her car on Race Street?
Her flat number is #612, which means she lived in apartment block 6 of which there are two within the Haven 124 development. Both these apartment blocks are located on the west side of the development, a very short walk from Race Street.
She could easily have circumvented whatever security system there was in the development by parking her car on Race Street which is a public road. There are Google StreetView images of Race Street taken during the month of July 2018 where you can see that the fencing is under construction/repair leaving big gaps for people to get in and out of the development unnoticed.
I seem to recall in Nichol mentioning in an interview that Chris used to park on Race Street when he visited her.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Chriswatts/comments/jr4jbo/jim_was_never_a_potential_alibi_for_nk_lets/
MartinJDeehan
ReplyDeleteShe didn't and I'm surprised people haven't put 2+2 together here. It was "her phone" but Anadarko paid her bills. In other words her "work phone". Everybody knows how this works, right? Your employer gives you a sim card and sometimes a phone to go with it. She started working at Anadarko in April 2018. All searches before that was done by the employee who had this sim card before NK. Google it, you'll see what I mean. Searches and a few other things are stored in the sim card, not the phone. It's later been proven that the reason someone searched for Shanann in 2017 was because CW had to renew his insurance he had through Anadarko. This is debunked a long time ago. Only conspiracy theorists and Armchair detective refuse to accept the reality (without NK being involved in the murders, he wouldn't be able to cash in on this tragedy) I recommend doing a search on the old address to NK . She lived in a gated community with security guards, cameras etc. When the police say "they knew her whereabouts the morning of the 13th" - there's a reason for this, you know.
CONTINUED...
debinambiocry
DeleteI worked for 2 different companies none of which gave me a sim, but when I was sent my monthly listings I declared private vs official calls and forwarded to the finance for them to pay official calls. Most of us declared most of the calls as official, espec. expensive, but those companies were big and they didn't care; both had issues with corruption on highest levels, so we were little mice.
NK was employee of Sunburst consulting, Anadarko subcontracted her, IIRC.
Where is the source of this news about googling employees for insurance? The search from 2017 was for Chris, on Aug the 3th. Was the search for Shanann on January 7th 2018, at 4am also for Anadarko insurance?
No phone web activity gets stored on a sim. Nonsense.
Why did Nichol go to Verizon to replace her broken sim if it belonged to the company? Why did she continue to use it after she was fired as we can see in her calls from September? The sim card contains your number. It was the same number from her bill for August. This is all nonsense.
What about her renting beautiful accommodation and the searches for Watts before she worked with Chris, what is your point? Or maybe better don't enlighten us with your putting 2+2 together.
Re your last sentence: yes we know, the reason is the mistress' whereabouts during the murders needed to be established.
CONTINUED...
Oceanjazztaz
ReplyDeleteEverything he put above can't probably be the truth as to why NK looked up the Watts online a year earlier because it makes absolutely no sense that a company would search for an employee's wife on social media for insurance purposes instead of just requesting the information they need from their employee. Also as someone said, she continued to use the sim after she was fired. I believe that she had nothing to do with the murders but the chances that she googled Chris and Shanann because it was because it was work related and not for personal reasons is pretty much zero. The logical theory to why she stalked them on Facebook is that she was interested in Chris, didn't care that he was married and decided to break up his marriage but unfortunately for her (and especially Shanann, Bella, Celeste and Nico) it didn't end the way she expected since he turned out to be insane and now her life is ruined.
reisereisecherywaves
SIM cards don't hold info like internet activity. It's an identifier, it allows you to activate a phone, has your own phone number stored and can usually store your contact list.