Saturday, December 29, 2018

Ken Kratz Knows It Was the "Junk Yard Pit" and Radandt Pit to Which Brendan Dassey Was Referring, Not the Manitowoc County Gravel Pit



There are four references to "pits" in the Steven Avery case:
  1. Steven Avery's burn pit or fire pit behind his garage.
  2. The junk yard pit at Avery Auto Salvage, where the junked cars are located (and the area where the RAV4 was planted).
  3. Radandt's gravel pit.
  4. Manitowoc County gravel pit.


From the CASO file:







Disgraced former prosecutor Ken Kratz is spreading disinformation, as usual.

Ken Kratz Slams Kathleen Zellner's DNA Request, Says She Owes ‘Apology'
Newsweek
December 20, 2018

In Zellner’s view, the bones, if identified as human, would clear Steven Avery of having allegedly killed Teresa Halbach on his property, which Ken Kratz claimed in his prosecution of Avery.

Steven Avery’s attorney, Kathleen Zellner, filed a motion for new DNA testing in the case Monday, but not everyone is as confident as she in the future of Avery.

Former Prosecutor Ken Kratz doesn’t think there’s much of a chance for Avery to have a retrial, and doesn’t see the relevance of testing bones found in the Manitowoc gravel pit.

Avery is currently serving life in prison for the murder of Teresa Halbach, which he says he did not commit. Zellner believes he is innocent, as she strongly confirmed to Newsweek in a November conversation. Kratz, who put Avery in prison, believes he is guilty.

In Zellner’s view, the bones, if identified as human, would clear Avery of having allegedly killed Halbach on his property, which Kratz claimed in his prosecution of Avery. Kratz, however, remembers a different story that could incriminate Avery.

“I’m not sure what a determination that these bones may be human would mean to the case,” Kratz told Newsweek. “I do recall Brendan Dassey claimed that his Uncle Steven took some of the bones and spread them around the area—wouldn’t a finding that the bones were human (or even Teresa Halbach’s bones) simply serve to further corroborate Brendan Dassey’s statement about Avery spreading bones around?”

In the conversation, Kratz also suggested Avery will never be granted a new trial, saying in his opinion, the chance is “zero.” “How many times does Attorney Zellner need to be thrown out of court for Attorney Zellner to finally agree with most legal analysts, and the jury, that all of the physical evidence collected points to Steven Avery, her client, as a cold-blooded killer?” he said.

Kratz also commented on the defamation lawsuit filed by former officer Andrew Colborn against Netflix and the Making A Murderer filmmakers. Colborn alleges the series wrongly accused him and the Manitowoc County Police Department of planting evidence in a lawsuit filed Tuesday.

“The devastation to Officer Colborn, his reputation, his family’s safety, and the relentless harassment exhibited by angry viewers was not only predictable to those responsible for production of the docuseries, it is my opinion it was done intentionally—Colborn was 'cast' as a villain in the show, without regard to the human cost to him, his department, or his family’s safety,” Kratz said. “The decision to ruin this man’s life, for the sake of entertainment, is despicable, and those responsible need to be held accountable for the damage they have caused.”

He continued to speak about Zellner, who he claims has uncovered no “new” evidence in the case for her client. “In my opinion, Attorney Kathleen Zellner has employed much of the same strategy as former Avery attorneys and the MaM filmmakers—accusing good cops, honest prosecutors, Avery family members, and ordinary citizens of wrongdoing, without one shred of evidence,” Kratz said. “These tactics are unethical and hurtful to so many people on a human level.  Attorney owes an unconditional apology to those she has set out to destroy.”

He ended the conversation with a note on her current exoneration record. “She claims that she has never lost an exoneration case. Attorney Zellner had better start accepting her new record of 20-1.”

12 comments:

  1. Avery’s November 6th Interview in Marinette County

    SKORLINSKI:
    Friday, you're working. And then at some point, umm, you and is it, umm, Earl are sighting in a rifle or something?

    AVERY:
    That was Friday.

    SKORLINSKI:
    Was that Friday?

    AVERY:
    Friday.

    SKORLINSKI:
    Ok. Is that after work or during the day?

    AVERY:
    No. During the day.

    SKORLINSKI:
    Ok. And, and where do you guys do that at?

    AVERY:
    Down in the pit.

    SKORLINSKI:
    Ok.

    AVERY:
    Where they'll crush cars.

    SKORLINSKI:
    Ok.

    O’NEILL:
    What time was that about, you think? Was it, lunch time or?

    AVERY:
    No, it was after lunch.

    O’NEILL:
    So, sometimes when you're actually on work—

    AVERY:
    Probably, uh, between one and three maybe.

    O’NEILL:
    So during the time that you're saying that you're working you could be out doing other things at your own leisure type stuff?

    AVERY:
    No. Just, he wanted to sight it in for hunting.

    O’NEILL:
    So you just took a break from work—

    AVERY:
    Did it in about five minutes.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Avery’s November 5th Interview in Marinette County

    O’NEILL:
    All right. So you've just basically told me, now brings me up to speed as to why we're here. And basically what we're doing is the same thing that they did down there and just checking the house, talking to you, aking sure there's nothing here. All right? Uh, what did you hear today as far as what's going on down there?

    AVERY:
    All I know were the cops were down there.

    O’NEILL:
    Ok. Did you know the vehicle was found down there?

    AVERY:
    I heard something.

    O’NEILL:
    Yeah. Any explanation as to why the vehicle's there?

    AVERY:
    I got no ideal.

    O’NEILL:
    Ok. Steve we're—

    AVERY:
    I've seen, I've seen light.

    O’NEILL:
    Mm-hmm.

    AVERY:
    See me and my brother, we went and got some wood. That was Thursday night. Well, I seen lights down by me. So I told him, I said "why don't you turn around? Let's go check that out."

    O’NEILL:
    Mm-hmm.

    AVERY:
    So we went back there, and he pulled up by my sister and I took the flashlight out of the flatbed. And I looked around, but I didn't see nothin'.

    O’NEILL:
    Mm-hmm.

    AVERY:
    So then we left.

    O’NEILL:
    So Thursday night, you and your brother are out getting wood?

    AVERY:
    Yeah. We went to, uh, Menards.

    CONTINUED...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. O’NEILL:
      Ok. Thursday night, you and your brother—your brother is?

      AVERY:
      Chuck.

      O’NEILL:
      Chuck. Went to Menards, got some wood.

      AVERY:
      Yeah.

      O’NEILL:
      You're on your way back to your house.

      AVERY:
      No, this was when we left.

      O’NEILL:
      Ok. When you're leaving to go to Menards.

      AVERY:
      Yeah.

      O’NEILL:
      What time's that, about? We're talking Thursday night, right?

      AVERY:
      Yeah, yeah. That was around, I don't know, eight o'clock somewhere in there. Because we went up the road that's a little ways in.

      O’NEILL:
      Which vehicle?

      AVERY:
      The flatbed.

      O’NEILL:
      And then you guys saw lights at that time?

      AVERY:
      Yeah.

      O’NEILL:
      Where'd, where'd you see lights at?

      AVERY:
      Back by me. Somebody turned around.

      O’NEILL:
      What kind of lights did you see?

      AVERY:
      Tail lights. They were kind of bright. I spotted them right away. But then they went off. That's why I told Chuckie, I said, "Why don't you turn around. Turn around."

      O’NEILL:
      Where were you at, on the road here, when you saw the tail lights?

      AVERY:
      Well, I think we were some place in here. Because I think we got on 147.

      O’NEILL:
      Ok. So you're here and you see the lights. Where do you see the lights at?

      AVERY:
      Back in here, some place. It seemed like it was right behind me. You know, you got a gravel pit here. Then you got the edge here. And, I don't know.

      O’NEILL:
      So you tell Chuck, "turn around, let's go back."

      AVERY:
      Yeah.

      O’NEILL:
      You go back, what happens?

      CONTINUED...

      Delete
    2. AVERY:
      Then we pulled up. I got the flashlight. And, uh, I walked around the trailer, shined it and there was nothing there. Then I walked up a little past the trees there and I looked. I didn't see nothing, so then I came back.

      O’NEILL:
      Where'd Chuck stay?

      AVERY:
      Chuck stayed in the truck.

      O’NEILL:
      Then what'd you guys do?

      AVERY:
      Then we left again. Went to Menards.

      O’NEILL:
      Anything else happen after that?

      AVERY:
      We went to Menards, got that all done. Then, uh, we—I stopped by the county jail.

      O’NEILL:
      For what?

      AVERY:
      I dropped off fifty dollars.
      O’NEILL:

      Ok. Your girlfriend's?

      AVERY:
      For my fiancé.

      O’NEILL:
      Ok.

      AVERY:
      And then we went home.

      O’NEILL:
      Ok.

      AVERY:
      From there.

      O’NEILL:
      And, uneventful from there on.

      AVERY:
      Yeah, that was good.

      O’NEILL:
      Any explanation as far as what you could figure out as to why you saw tail lights, maybe?

      AVERY:
      I don't know.

      O’NEILL:
      Do you usually have any problems down there at all?

      AVERY:
      Well, once in a while there's somebody in the back, trying to sneak in the junkyard.

      O’NEILL:
      Just to get parts and stuff?

      AVERY:
      Yeah. Well, one person, or four people—

      O’NEILL:
      Mm-hmm.

      AVERY:
      —got caught maybe a month or two months ago.

      O’NEILL:
      Mm-hmm.

      AVERY:
      For trespassing.

      Delete
    3. O’NEILL: Now, is your mom and your dad home and stuff?

      AVERY: Uh—

      O’NEILL: Did you talk to them about it?

      AVERY: No.

      O’NEILL: Did you talk to your sister about it?

      AVERY: No.

      O’NEILL: You didn't—

      AVERY: Just me and Chuckie.

      O’NEILL: Just you and Chuck.

      AVERY: Yeah.

      O’NEILL: So you paid it no other attention than what you paid it that night by telling Chuck "turn around." You went back to your place, got the flashlight out of the flatbed, went over by your trailer, checked around, went over by the tree line?

      AVERY: Yeah.

      O’NEILL: How close is the tree line to your trailer?

      AVERY: Maybe two cars.

      O’NEILL: So, not a far distance then.

      AVERY: No, no. It ain't far at all. I mean you got a—

      O’NEILL: Ok.

      AVERY: I got a swimming pool there, then, you barely can just drive through there.

      O’NEILL: Mm-hmm. But you do have problems once in a while of people coming in there to try to get parts and stuff like that.

      AVERY: Yeah. And once in a while I'll take the truck back there, you know and just like uh [unintelligible] you know—

      O’NEILL: Do you guys have any dogs and stuff like that, or?

      AVERY: I got a dog.

      O’NEILL: Does it bark a lot? Well that one barks.
      [Laughter]

      AVERY: Yeah. I got a German Shepherd, he barks all the time.

      O’NEILL: Ok. Now this diagram that you drew out and that we've been making notes on and stuff.

      AVERY: But when we left, coming up—when Chuckie left for coming up north—

      O’NEILL: Mm-hmm.

      AVERY: And he said he seen lights down by him.

      O’NEILL: Ok. And where does Chuck live?

      AVERY: Chuck lives right here.

      O’NEILL: So, Chuck comes up here, when?

      AVERY: Friday night.

      O’NEILL: Ok. He calls you up from his cellphone to your cellphone and says what?

      AVERY: He told me to go—he'd seen some lights and he wanted me to check 'em out. I thought he was bullshitting. But—

      O’NEILL: Mm-hmm.

      AVERY: You know, when I said it, he thought I was bullshitting.

      O’NEILL: Mm-hmm.

      AVERY: No, he was serious. "There was a light. I've seen light." Said I'll go—

      O’NEILL: Did he say what kind of lights?

      AVERY: I think he said headlights.

      O’NEILL: Ok.

      AVERY: And then I told him "well," I said, "I'll go check it out then."

      O’NEILL: Did he say where?

      AVERY: Yeah, back by him. Where he lives there.

      O’NEILL: Mm-hmm.

      AVERY: So that's when I went down there, with Bobby. We looked and we didn't see nothing. And we left.

      Delete
  3. [–]Rocknm3

    KZ isn't doing this on a whim, she got a really big tip from someone who knows that the remains at the quarry belonged to TH. We really have no idea what she really already knows for certain but she isn't going to be making any huge mistakes - she already knows the outcome. IMO.

    [–]raiph

    Two witnesses say they:

    Saw a fire in the quarry on Halloween night at around 11pm to midnight;

    Sneaked onto the quarry to see what was going on;

    Heard two male voices (adult iirc) and saw at least two people at a fire;

    Located at the exact site the bones were found [the Manitowoc County Gravel Pit];

    Bones that KZ has recently realized that Eisenberg reported as having the same characteristic cut marks as the ones found in SA's burn pit;

    Which Eisenberg described as being definitely human (or more accurately "human, not possibly human");

    Which evidence KK effectively suppressed through deceit ("not known to be human", not worth "20 seconds" of attention) reminiscent of his other known deceits ("Brendan's computer", "not much of evidentiary value", etc.)

    [–]Lebojr

    Here is my theory of what happened and why evidence was found where it was. TH left ASY and was murdered by one or more people. Her body was chopped up and burned outside of ASY. The car was left in the turnaround. Some bones and evidence were brought back late night or early am to ASY burn pit and to the burn barrels. Sometime on the 1st - 4th the car was moved to ASY. Like I’ve said, I don’t think SA did it. I don’t think BD did it. I think this is BoD, ST and/or RH.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/a7d3xb/why_is_it_hard_for_people_to_understand_why_if/

    ReplyDelete
  4. From CASO:

    and assisted searching the pit area where all the junk cars were located

    EARL states they get a gun from his car, get in the golf cart, and ROBERT and EARL go down to the pit. EARL states he is driving the golf cart down a lane located on the southeast part of the salvage yard. This is where TERESA HALBACH's car is found.

    they attempt rabbit hunting in the lower pit area

    STEVEN AVERY stated he had not been in the pit area for approximately one month.

    According to BRENDAN, STEVEN had told him that he stabbed her (meaning TERESA) in the stomach in the pit and that he took the knife and put it under the seat of her jeep.

    STEVEN had told BRENDAN that he hid the vehicle in the pit back in the tree area and put
    some tree branches on the top of it and put the car hood on the top of it.

    ReplyDelete
  5. The return of the biological remains, preserved in evidence from November 8th, 2005 to September 20th, 2011, is documented on pages 1114-1115 of the CASO Investigative Report. Per the CASO report, “Fallon” (who is now the Special Prosecutor in the case) and “Gahn” made the decision to return the biological remains after 5 years, 10 months, 12 days. However, per Wisconsin law, the biological remains were to remain preserved in State custody until after BD & SA are no longer in prison. Thus, the CASO report appears evidence of a State's violation of Wisconsin law.

    [–]Coriolana[S]

    I think she may want to make something out of them defying an order made in 2007 by the trial court to preserve any evidence for future DNA testing (mentioned in her motion) and the fact that they have returned likely bone fragments without proof they are of TH. Hopefully, she won’t have to go down the path of exhumation and that the remaining bones are still available for testing. When you read the description in CASO, pages 1114-1115 you’ll see they just picked out what they thought were human bones based on Dr E’s notes and photos. God know what they actually got.

    It may not be necessary, the remainder may be enough, but if a profile can’t be obtained, she may have to request access to the buried bones. Hopefully it won’t come to that.

    [–]CaseFilesReviewer[S]

    Based on my research knowingly destroying evidence in Wisconsin is a “Class H Felony” and punishable by up to a $10,000 fine and a prison term of up to 6 years. It is construed obstruction of justice, which punishable by up to 9 months in jail or up to $10,000, and in violation of a defendant's Constitutional Rights thereby a retrial would be granted.

    What's interesting is the CASO report provides evidence of the destruction, by way of permanently removing it from preservation and State custody, and the report names two people who made the decision to destroy the biological material evidence. More interesting is one of the persons named is now the State's Assistant Attorney General and Special Prosecutor assigned the case.

    Whether or not statute was violated is predicated on if the State has proof BD & SA and their attorneys were notified and received said notification 90 days prior to the destruction. If challenged by KZ and the State has no proof of notification and receipt thereof; those who destroyed the evidence have a problem and the courts have no choice other than overturn the prior conviction.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/a7gnzv/states_retention_laws_on_biological_material_from/

    ReplyDelete
  6. "I’m sure Brendan “confessed” that some of the bones were distributed in the gravel pit."

    [–]J4_C4

    This is incorrect. He made a claim that Steven buried some near his burn pit. He also said Steven told him he put some in a 5 gallon bucket and disposed of them in Radandt's gravel pit (fairly near Avery's house). He made no mention whatsoever to distributing bones to the MCGP.

    He identified it on a map.

    Brendan never specified "Radandt's GP". He just showed W&F that he dumped them behind his house "here".

    "Here" clearly being Radandt's GP.

    The MCGP is a mile or so from where he was pointing.

    Don't take my word for it though, go watch his confession.

    Brendan showed Weigert this area on a map he drew. Weigert asked if he saw Steven dispose of the bones here and Brendan says No. Weigert asks Brendan how he knows Steven did that? Brendan says because Steven told me. Brendan though never verbally specifies the Radandt GP. He only visually specifies it through the map he drew. The MCGP is too far in relation to where he pointed.

    Brendan specifically points on his map to an area behind Steven's house and says "It would be like over here somewhere." The MCGP is nowhere in relation to where he points. Oh and don't misinterpret what I'm saying. I don't believe anything Brendan says in relation to this matter. My point only is that if one is to believe what he is saying to be factual then he never does ever reference disposing bones in the MCGP.

    You have to watch Brendan's confession. I matched up the transcript in CASO to the video. They have him draw things and then they ask him about where Steven threw the bones that he placed in the bucket and he specifies it was just behind his house. Right behind his house is Radandt's pits.

    I think they would easily showcase where he was pointing to and by putting him on the stand it would clarify it even more. There is no way the prosecution would convince anyone that he's pointing just behind Avery's house and that means he's referring to the far off in the distance MCGP. Anyways, in regards to the up votes, down votes. I really don't bother with it other than to up set some vile guilters. I'm here to discuss the case not win a popularity contest.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. [–]dugdiggins

      This is correct.

      The MCGP, where the three piles of human bones with cut marks were found, is a mile or so from Avery's property.

      https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Avery's+Auto+Salvage/Bone+Pile,+Gibson,+WI+54241/@44.2500488,-87.7005594,2246m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x88032f8641fb3e73:0xb85fa553298bb0bf!2m2!1d-87.6905912!2d44.2545967!1m5!1m1!1s0x8803256b737e0367:0x1dd99981956cdfee!2m2!1d-87.7022805!2d44.2454061!3e2

      CASO Page 637

      FASSBENDER: What did you guys do with Teresa's body after that, after it was burned?

      BRENDAN: I don't know, I didn't, I didn't do nothin' with it.

      FASSBENDER: Did Steven do anything with it?

      BRENDAN: Yeah. but I don't know what.

      FASSBENDER: How do you, what do you mean by yes, but you don't know what?

      BRENDAN: Like he tried to bury it or somethin'.

      FASSBENDER: How'd he do that?

      BRENDAN: With the shovel.

      FASSBENDER: Did he take some of her body out of that fire pit?

      BRENDAN: (nods "yes") Yeah.

      FASSBENDER: He did. How tell me how he did that.

      BRENDAN: Like when the bones were left behind, he would like try to take the shovel and try to break the bones apart and he would bury 'em, like right in front of the fire almost.

      WIEGERT: What do you mean he'd bury them right by the fire?

      BRENDAN: Like he dug a hole and he'd put the bones in there and he buried it.

      WIEGERT: Where in relation to the fire?

      BRENDAN: Like two, three feet away.

      WIEGERT: Which way from the fire?

      BRENDAN: Like towards the garage.

      WIEGERT: OK.

      FASSBENDER: Did you see him do that?

      BRENDAN: (shakes head "no") I just heard that.

      FASSBENDER: Heard it from who?

      BRENDAN: Him.

      FASSBENDER: Oh. So he told you that he used the shovel to break up bones?

      BRENDAN: Yeah. (nods "yes")

      FASSBENDER: And then buried some of the bones? (Brendan nods "yes") Did he take some of her bones some. Anywhere else?

      BRENDAN: On the other side of the, like that, there was like in the back of the yard there was like this steep hill there, like in the pit, there was some there that he threw there.

      FASSBENDER: OK, we're gonna, we're in a little bit, we're gonna have you draw on some sketches and stuff and we're a, we're gonna wanna these places. How do you know that there were some bones there?

      BRENDAN: He told me that he threw some there.

      FASSBENDER: Did he tell you how he did that?

      BRENDAN: He had 'em in a bucket.

      FASSBENDER: And what I'm understanding is then in the back of both your yards or his yards, down toward into the pit, over that area?

      BRENDAN: In like Radandt's Pit.

      FASSBENDER: Oh, Radandt's pit, (Brendan nods "yes") not into your ah, (Brendan shakes head "no") the salvage yard area? (Brendan shakes head "no") You think you'll be able to show
      us that?

      BRENDAN: (nods "Yes") Yeah.

      FASSBENDER: Anything else that you did with the bones (Brendan shakes head "no") that he told you or that you helped him, di-did you help him do any of this?

      BRENDAN: (shakes head "no") No.

      And like you said:

      > I don't believe anything Brendan says in relation to this matter. My point only is that if one is to believe what he is saying to be factual then he never does ever reference disposing bones in the MCGP.

      https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/aaovvb/solution_to_kzs_problem_have_dasseys_team_file/

      Delete
    2. [–]J4_C4

      Oh see I never went further down in that exchange. He does specify Radandt's pit. Interesting. A while later in this interview they come back to this and they have him draw a series of drawings and here he just points to the area in which Steven dumped a 5 gallon bucket of bones. In the video of this interview you can clearly see it is in Radandt's pit despite him verbally saying so.

      Delete
    3. [–]J4_C4

      I think they would easily showcase where he was pointing to and by putting him on the stand it would clarify it even more. There is no way the prosecution would convince anyone that he's pointing just behind Avery's house and that means he's referring to the far off in the distance MCGP. Anyways, in regards to the up votes, down votes. I really don't bother with it other than to up set some vile guilters. I'm here to discuss the case not win a popularity contest.

      You have to watch Brendan's confession. I matched up the transcript in CASO to the video. They have him draw things and then they ask him about where Steven threw the bones that he placed in the bucket and he specifies it was just behind his house. Right behind his house is Radandt's pits.

      I think Zellner's goal was to try to prove those bones were TH's and then she was going to submit in her motion to supplement the record a witness who corroborates seeing two individuals having a fire in the MCGP. There is no way the Court could ignore this.

      Brendan never specified "Radandt's GP". He just showed W&F that he dumped them behind his house "here". Here clearly being Radandt's GP. The MCGP is way far from where he was pointing. Don't take my word for it though, go watch his confession.

      There seems to be some confusion here. Brendan showed Weigert this area on a map he drew. Weigert asked if he saw Steven dispose of the bones here and Brendan says No. Weigert asks Brendan how he knows Steven did that? Brendan says because Steven told me. Brendan though never verbally specifies the Radandt GP. He only visually specifies it through the map he drew. The MCGP is too far in relation to where he pointed.

      https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/aaovvb/solution_to_kzs_problem_have_dasseys_team_file/

      Delete