On June 25, 1968, the Robison family of six was murdered in their vacation cottage in Good Hart, Michigan.
Richard Carl Robison (42), born 11-30-1925
Shirley Loretta Robison (40), born 9-03-1927
Richard Craig Robison (19), born 12-10-1948
Gary Lee Robison (17), born 12-15-1951
Randall Mark Robison (12), born 9-30-1955
Susan Claire Robison (7), born 12-09-1960
For the next 27 days, the bodies lay in the heated cottage. Dust settled on the family’s two parked cars.
A sickening smell wafted over Blisswood, ruining one cottager’s annual bridge party.
Nonetheless, everybody assumed the Robisons were on the out-of-town trip they had mentioned.
Finally, caretaker Monnie Bliss and a helper went to remove what they figured was a dead raccoon rotting in the crawl space.
The leather strap that lifted the metal bar latching the front door of the Robisons’ cottage was pulled to the inside, and when Monnie tried to look through the front window, the heavy drape was pulled all the way shut, blocking the view.
Monnie and his helper walked around back and found the lakeside door padlocked. Returning to the front door, Monnie pried the wooden door molding out with a flat bar just far enough to slip the file under the black latch, raise it up off its iron tooth, and pull the door open.
Monnie walked into a wall of flies. Inside were the badly decomposed bodies of six members of the vacationing Lathrup Village family: advertising executive Richard (Dick) Robison, his wife, Shirley, and their four children. Shirley had evidently been raped; the youngest child, 7-year-old Susan, had been bludgeoned with a hammer. All had been shot.
The victims were dressed as if going on a trip; Shirley's partially packed suitcase was on a bed.
The Robisons called their secluded waterfront cottage Summerset. It stood at the end of a private drive nestled in the lower reaches of the Blisswood Resort (2841 N Lake Shore Dr, Harbor Springs). The subdivision of widely scattered log-and-stone cabins was developed by the Bliss family, who also maintained the thickly wooded property.
The cottage faced west, toward the lake, and was "the last cabin at the north end of the trail," on a lot at the bottom of a very steep and wooded bluff. Looking at the subdivision map, you would go into the subdivision, make a right and go downhill to the bottom of the bluff area, and then do a half circle back south to the south end of the lake lots.
The cottage was torn down in March 1969. According to "Good Hart Jack" in 2008, "several years ago the Robison lot was purchased and split between the two adjoining neighbors."
An excerpt from the police report reads: "Officers arrived at the scene at 10:35 PM on July 22, 1968. The scene is a stone and log cabin located on the Lake Michigan shore line at Blisswood Resort, Section 24, Readmond Twp., Emmet County, West of M-131 (Lake Shore Drive). Cottage located 2 and 1/10 north of Robinson Road, then west on a private drive, on the north side of the Chauncey P Bliss home, 1/2 mile to end of drive."
Topix commenter "psychedelic survivor" posted on the thread,"Robi
"Psychedelic survivor" posted comments from Kentucky, Tennessee, South Carolina, Georgia and Florida, but he could have been using a VPN (Virtual Private Network) to hide or alter his locations.
The following are "psychedelic survivor's" comments from the Topix forum, beginning June 7, 2008 and ending June 2, 2009, along with some other comments, editor's notes, and excerpts from Edward Wayne Edwards' 1972 autobiography, Metamorphosis of a Criminal, the True Life Story of Ed Edwards.
"Psychedelic survivor" (and possibly "cyber" and "Laura") is Edward Wayne Edwards, the Zodiac, who eventually would be arrested for murder on July 30, 2009.
Nick N
Ludington, MI
#1 May 2, 2006
does anyone know anything about the murders of the robinson family back in the 1970's? i've been trying to find info on the internet, but i have found absolutely nothing. can anyone help me?
Nick N
Ludington, MI
#2 May 2, 2006
BTW, this was in Cross Village, MI. I've heard rumors of a mob hit, but i can't find anything concrete.
BVD
United States
#3 Aug 14, 2006
Nick N wrote:It's not RobiNson, it's Robison.
does anyone know anything about the murders of the robinson family back in the 1970's? i've been trying to find info on the internet, but i have found absolutely nothing. can anyone help me?
Traverse City, MI
#26 May 17, 2007
I'm a writer working on a book about Good Hart for the University of Michigan Press. I, too, am following the Robison case. Anyone with info they'd like to share can email me at mardi5@charter.net. I think everyone would just like to get it solved.
Ann L
United States
#33 Jul 20, 2007
Wow! I've never seen this site before. I have never forgotten the Robison's murders. I was ten years old, and my family had a cottage nearby. My brother and sister and I played with the three younger kids, and I had a crush on Randy.(He wore these really cute red-suspendered swim trunks.) My uncle was the last one to see them alive, and Monty Bliss,(the caretaker) was a dear family friend. I remember the constant news coverage in the Petoskey News Review. It shattered my innocent-kid sense of security. I have lots of memories. I read the Tarnished Eye, but not Dead End. Yet. T.E. had a lot of the crime scene evidence accurate, but beyond that it was interesting fiction. When the Robison's partner committed suicide, he really did write a suicide note saying he did not kill the Robisons. I wish they would solve this one.
Laura
Louisville, KY
#34 Jul 21, 2007
Hi Ann,
What was Susan like? I was 8 when it happened, and I lived close to where they lived in Lathrup Village. I too have never forgotten this case. Through the Freedom of Information Act, I was able to obtain a copy of the actual police report (over 400 pages). The detectives involved believed that the business partner either did it or was involved in it ... but in the final analysis, the whole truth will probably never be known.
EDITOR'S NOTE:
Edwards lived in Louisville, Kentucky, from around 2000 until his arrest on July 30, 2009.richard-petoskey
Pellston, MI
#35 Jul 26, 2007
The newest edition of DEAD END has corrected earlier errors. Do not be surprised if the author's conjecture is soon proven true by a re-opening of the COLD CASE!!!rw
Mardi
Big Rapids, MI
#38 Jul 31, 2007
Hey Richard, can you tell us more about the case being re-opened.
Laura
Chillicothe, OH
#61 Oct 23, 2007
The Robison cottage was torn down sometime in March 1969. The estate also wanted one foot of sand removed from under the cottage and replaced.
For those of you who are interested in the location of where it once existed the police report states: Section 24, West of M-131 (Lakeshore Drive) On the shore line of Lake Michigan. Cottage located 2 and 1/10 north of Robinson Road, then West on a private drive, on the north side of the Chauncey P. Bliss home 1/2 mile to end of drive. The cottage is the last one on the drive.
An excerpt from the police report reads: Officers arrived at the scene at 10:35 PM on July 22, 1968. The scene is a stone and log cabin located on the Lake Michigan shore line at Blisswood Resort, Section 24, Readmond Twp., Emmet County. The cabin faces west toward the lake and is the last cabin at the north end of the trail.
Richard
Bloomfield Hills, MI
#63 Oct 26, 2007
Laura - How did you get a copy of the police report? Would be interested in reading it. I was a neighbor of the Robisons during the time period and was about 10 years old.
Chillicothe, OH
#64 Oct 26, 2007
Hi Richard,
Anyone can request the police report through the Freedom of Information Act. It is quite lengthy with over 600 pages. Because of its length, it is quite pricey to obtain; it cost me over two hundred bucks. If you decide to get it all you have to do is contact Police headquarters in Lansing Michigan and ask to obtain case #7471. The complaint number is 78-785-68. The date goes by the date the bodies were discovered which is July 22, 1968 not the actually date of their murders which was June 25, 1968. You will find it to be a very interesting read. The police were very thorough in this report and interviewed people such as Robison's ex mistress, Gary Robison's best friend Michael Smith who lived on Sunset in Lathrup Village, the people who lived near the Robison's cottage including the Little's etc.. There were a lot of interesting characters that were interviewed. What led the police to the business partner was the fact that the bullet casings found around the cottage matched the bullets casings that was discovered on the firing range Scolaro used. Scolaro flunked all the polygraph tests, he could not come up with an alibi for that day that could be substantiated by others. He told police that he was attending the Cobo Hall convention but no one remembers seeing him. The police checked all leads. There were crazy rumors circulating at the time that the mob had been involved which had no validity. There was also a crazy rumor that Rich Robison had known John Norman Collins at Eastern and it was Collins that had killed the Robisons. That was investigated and found that Collins and Rich Robison had never met. None of the family members had ever met Collins. That rumor still persists today with a boyhood friend of Randall Robison still claiming that John Norman Collins did it which is ludicrous. This supposed friend of Randy's claims Mrs. Robison was having an affair with Collins. In reality, the only person in that family with a sordid background was Richard Robison himself. If you read the report you will be quite amazed that behind the church going facade he was quite a different person that his neighbors or family believed he was. The police report makes a good read. I am still waiting for a very good book to come out on this case. I have read "Dead End" and it was a disappointment.
EDITOR'S NOTE:
In his autobiography on page 166, Edwards mentions "Laura" and "Chillicothe" (see image below). On April 25, 1952, in Ohio, Edwards was caught impersonating a Marine and was incarcerated at a federal reformatory in Chillicothe, where he met Charlie Manson for the first time. Both are from Cleveland, Ohio. Manson was born in 1934 and Edwards in 1933. Charlie Manson and Edward Edwards were in prison together in Chillicothe 1951-53; however, Edwards does not mention this in his autobiography, Metamorphisis of a Criminal.
Laura
Chillicothe, OH
#66 Oct 26, 2007
I lived in Southfield. I lived only minutes away from their home in Lathrup. My father use to mail his letters at the Lathrup post office. I was 8 at the time; the same age as Susan who would have turned 8 that year. I guess it really affected me at the time because It was so hard for me to understand how someone could kill a child. Susan was not only shot but bludgeoned to death with a hammer. It was such a horrific crime. I have been invited to go up north several times to see the area with a veteran reporter named Al Koski who wrote many articles on this case for the Free Press. He was very kind and filled me in on some info that wasn't in the police report. He lives in Royal Oak and had interviewed Scolaro back in the late 60's early 70's. He had also been the one that wrote that news article about Shirley Robison's luggage tag being found in a stolen vehicle in Plymouth.
Do you remember anything in particular about the Robison's?
Richard
Bloomfield Hills, MI
#67 Oct 27, 2007
Laura - I was actually between Susan and Randy - so I never really hung out with any of them. I do remember being in their house once. I guess nothing seemed out of the ordinary living across from them. I remeber my father telling me and my brother that he hoped we grew up as well behaved as the Robison boys. My impression was that they kept to themselves - very private - or maybe that is what I learned from my parents. I would love to chat with you some more. Do you ever get up this way?
Laura
Chillicothe, OH
#72 Oct 29, 2007
Richard, Yes, you are right; Robison didn't live ostentatiously. But, society was very different back then. People with money didn't necessarily flaunt their wealth. I remember we all lived in nice homes but nothing compared to the houses that are now being built. I read Judith Guests book "The Tarnished Eye" about the Robison murders. I was very disappointed in that book also. She didn't take time to research the murders. Randy Robisons supposed childhood friend Tom Mair (I don't know if he really was Randy's friend, Mair claims he was) was in contact with Guest during the time she was writing the book. Thus you get that ludicrous angle about Mrs. Robison having an affair with John Norman Collins. The reason why I went out of my way to obtain the police report and get a hold of the lead detectives on this case was because I wanted to know the facts, not the ridiculous rumors or innuendos.
Richard
Bloomfield Hills, MI
#73 Oct 29, 2007
Laura - Tarnished Eye was an interesting story but since I was so close to the actual events - I was also disappointed. I do remember Tom Mair and Randy Robison being buddies. Tom I believe lived 3 door down from the Robisons from what I remember - they seemed to hang out with each other. I did read one story about Tom's quest for the truth - I don't know much about the John Norman Collins tie except that there was rumor that Richard Jr. may have known him - but I don't believe there is a tie. What did the police report say about the luggage tag and the car and its owner? I found this an interesting point in the Dead End story.
Laura
Chillicothe, OH
#74 Oct 29, 2007
Richard, now that is a strange mystery. the police report states:
On 8-10-73, the Detroit Post towed in an abandoned vehicle. This information is recorded on their complaint 21-2734-73 file 3.2 The vehicle was abandoned on M-14, half a mile west of Sheldon Road in Plymouth Twp. It was a 1965 Chevy two door, blue in color, 73 Ohio license 12481-N, VIN #164375F255027.
The vehicle was towed to Plymouth Auto Electric, located at 620 S. Main Street, Plymouth. The owner of the vehicle could not be located, and after several months went by, Plymouth Auto Electric became the owners of the vehicle.
On 2-25-74, Tpr. Maxwell, of the Detroit Post, searched the vehicle and in the glove box he found a small leather bound name tag. The name tag had the name of one of the murdered victims. The name was Shirley L. Robison, 18790 Dolores, Lathrup Village, Mich. Tpr. Maxwell, recalled the name and requested assistance. D/Sgt John Flis assisted Tpr. Maxwell in making another search of the vehicle. The vehicle was searched very thoroughly for further evidence, however, none was found.
The tag is tan in color. It is three and a half inches long and two inches wide. There are two pieces of leather stitched together and there is a plastic window with the name tag under it. There is a small slot near the top of the tag that appears to be made for a small strap to be attached. This is the type of tag that is found on luggage. The printing is in blue ink and appears to have been made by a pen. The tag is in good condition and clean.
Vehicle Owner:
Michigan SOS did not have any information on this vehicle. All they have is the garage keeper in Plymouth as the owner now and that the vehicle was last registered in Ohio. Ohio did not advise how or from where that car entered their state.
Owner History:
Leonard Lamont W/M 11-18-17 of 1214 Yates Street, Toledo, is a foreman for Ones-Illinois glass company. He bought the car in June 1966 and would have been the owner when the Robison murders took place. He never let anyone use the car other than his son and daughter and neighbor, who had it long enough to go to northern Michigan and back. He looked at the luggage tag and stated that he had never seen it before.
Robert Charles Sutter W/M 11-18-35 of 562 Spring Street, Toledo, Ohio, was contacted. He is a dispatcher for Trans-American truck lines in Toledo. Sutter stated that he bought the car from his uncle Leonard Lamont. When he bought it it had only two screws in the glove box. He was shown the luggage tag and stated that he had never seen the item before. When he traded the car he took everything from the glove box.
The vehicle was registered to a William M. Herring DOB 11-18-32 of 474 S. Church Street, Bowling Green, Ohio. Mr. Herring was located living at 1839 W. US-23 Omer, Mich. He owns and operates the Spot Dinner located at the above address. He stated that he purchased the 65 Chevy for his son Ronald in December of 1972 from Kistler Ford Inc. 5555 W. Central, Toledo, Ohio. He did not know what may have been in the car or how it got there.
Ohio records that the car was titled to Herring to the Kister Ford and to a Robert J. Sutter of 562 Spring Street, Toledo, Ohio, titled in Lucas Co. on 4-24-72, title #482178123.
Interview of Ronald Herring:
Ronald Herring, of 2640 Hutchison Road, Caro, Mich. W/M, DOB 2-25-54, TX 517-673-4854. Mr. Herring stated that his car was stolen the first week of August 1973 from Cedar Point, Ohio. He reported his car stolen at that time to the police at Cedar Point. A check with Cedar Point confirmed the report. He was permitted to view the tag and was questioned as to how it got in his car. He did not know how it got there and did not recall ever seeing it. He stated that many of his friends used his car in the past and anyone of them may have left it. Most of his friends were of the hippie type. He stated that he had a suspect on the car theft. He let a subject by the name of Robert Olson use his car while they were at Cedar Point. He stated that Olson was from the Detroit area. They were both working at Cedar Point and were friends. One day Olson left after being fired from his job and that was when the car came up missing. He felt that Olson took the car back home to the Detroit area and that is why it was found on M-14. Mr. Herring, stated that he would not prosecute Olson and will just forget about the car.
Robert Olson located:
Robert Joseph Olson of 24361 Colgate Street, Dearborn Hgts. W/M, DOB 5-25-54. Mr. Olson admitted taking the car without permission. He stated that the car broke down and he left it at the location where it was found. He also was asked if he had seen the tag in the car or if he put it there. He stated that he never did see the tag in the car and did not know anything about it.
Ronald Herring, of 2640 Hutchison Road, Caro, Mich. W/M, DOB 2-25-54, TX 517-673-4854. Mr. Herring stated that his car was stolen the first week of August 1973 from Cedar Point, Ohio. He reported his car stolen at that time to the police at Cedar Point. A check with Cedar Point confirmed the report. He was permitted to view the tag and was questioned as to how it got in his car. He did not know how it got there and did not recall ever seeing it. He stated that many of his friends used his car in the past and anyone of them may have left it. Most of his friends were of the hippie type. He stated that he had a suspect on the car theft. He let a subject by the name of Robert Olson use his car while they were at Cedar Point. He stated that Olson was from the Detroit area. They were both working at Cedar Point and were friends. One day Olson left after being fired from his job and that was when the car came up missing. He felt that Olson took the car back home to the Detroit area and that is why it was found on M-14. Mr. Herring, stated that he would not prosecute Olson and will just forget about the car.
Robert Olson located:
Robert Joseph Olson of 24361 Colgate Street, Dearborn Hgts. W/M, DOB 5-25-54. Mr. Olson admitted taking the car without permission. He stated that the car broke down and he left it at the location where it was found. He also was asked if he had seen the tag in the car or if he put it there. He stated that he never did see the tag in the car and did not know anything about it.
Further checks on the tag:
All of the photos taken at the crime scene were checked to see if the tag may have been taken off at the scene. Nothing was found in the photos. A check will be made with relatives at a later date to see if they recall such a tag.
Laura
Chillicothe, OH
#76 Oct 29, 2007
Richard, I hesitated about including addresses, phone numbers etc. but I figured this is such old information and that the telephone numbers would all have changed by now, and a lot of these people are now dead or have probably moved away. So basically the upshot was that forensics did prove that the luggage tag was in Robison's hand writing. But the mystery of how a luggage tag ended up in an abandoned car five years after the murder is a mystery unto itself. I have my own theory though.
EDITOR'S NOTE:
On August 10, 1973, five years after the murders, Shirley Robison's luggage tag was found in an abandoned vehicle "on M-14, half a mile west of Sheldon Road in Plymouth Twp." It was a 1965 Chevy two door, blue in color, 73 Ohio license 12481-N. The current Ohio owner was contacted and said that he bought the car for his son, and the son said he reported the car stolen a week earlier, with his friend being the primary suspect. The friend admitted to police that he had taken the car without permission and had driven it from Ohio to Michigan. The friend said he abandoned the car on M-14, where it had broken down.
When a trooper searched the vehicle, in the glove box he found a small leather bound name tag of one of the murdered victims: "Shirley L. Robison, 18790 Dolores, Lathrup Village, Mich."
All the owners of record were interviewed, as well as the friend who stole the car and drove it from Ohio to the Detroit area, and nobody could recall ever seeing the tag or had any idea how it got there.
The office of the Albany Times Union newspaper received an envelope postmarked August 1, 1973 (image above), with a crossed-circle drawn in the corner instead of a return address. The letter read (image at link): “YOU ARE WRONG I’M NOT DEAD OR IN THE HOSPITAL I AM ALIVE AND WELL AND IM GOING TO START KILLING AGAIN Below is the NAME AND LOCATION OF MY NEXT VICTIM But you had Better hurry because I’m going to kill Her August 10th at 5:00 P.M. when the shift change. ALBANY is a nice town.”
Below the message, the writer included three rows of symbols. According to an FBI report, bureau cryptanalysts deciphered the coded message to read, “[REDACTED] Albany Medical Center. This is only the beginning.”
The Zodiac killer wrote the letter, probably in response to the following July 22, 1973 news article:
Investigators were unable to identify any murders that could explain the vague reference to a victim on August 10th. Handwriting experts could not determine if the new letter was prepared by the writer of the Zodiac letters, “due to the lack of significant characteristics” in the Albany message, but this possibility could not be eliminated based on the limited analysis. [Source]
On August 1, 1973, Edwards was in Albany, New York, sending this Zodiac letter, threatening to start killing; and then he headed to Albany, California, to do the killing (according to John A Cameron).
Along the way, on August 10th, Edwards spotted the abandoned 1965 blue Chevy on M-14 near Plymouth, Michigan, and put Shirley Robison's luggage tag in the glove box (the main suspect in the Robison family murder, Joe Scolaro, committed suicide five months earlier, on March 8, 1973).
The most direct route from Albany, New York to Albany, California (via Detroit) would have Edwards traveling on M-14 near Plymouth, Michigan.
Christine
Traverse City, MI
#90 Dec 6, 2007
How does this application determine where you are? I am not in Acme....I am in Traverse City.....
United States
#98 Dec 14, 2007
Are you Rick Wiles? I just got a letter about this subject from Rick Wiles.
Laura
Chillicothe, OH
#104 Jan 9, 2008
Hi Richard,
It was determined that the name "Shirley Robison" on the luggage tag was written by Richard Robison by a handwriting expert. Was the luggage tag planted by the murderer? No, I do not think so. More likely that someone garbage diving picked up some nice suitcases. After the murders, the Robison estate paid deputy Fosmore to clean up the cottage and remove items that the relatives did not want. A lot of items were thrown away. Highly unethical for Fosmore to be cleaning up the place but it was different times.
Laura
Chillicothe, OH
#105 Jan 9, 2008
Beth,
People did inquire about the Robisons that summer. More specifically, Dr. Smith & his wife who were one of the Robison's best friends. His wife stated in the police report that "Joseph Scolaro told her not to worry since he had received a telephone call from them in Kentucky and they were having a good time." When Scolaro was questioned about this statement he could not recall it. The Robison's never made it to Kentucky. When Scolaro allegedly made this statement to Mrs. Smith they had already been dead for some time. Mrs. Robison's mother also tried to reach them to no avail. Everyone just assumed that they were out of the state enjoying themselves. Robison had told everyone that they were going to Kentucky and Florida after spending some time at their cottage. That is the reason why no one was overly concerned about not hearing from them.
Mary
United States
#117 Feb 6, 2008
Thanks, Laura. I really couldn't imagine how horrific this was to the community back in 1968, considering the fact that were it to occur today it would still be quite shocking. Unfortunately, my Grandfather passed away in 1994, however my family has spoken with Al Koski on more than one occassion. I agree with you in thinking that Joseph Scolaro was involved. I also believe that there was one single person involved. I partly believe this because I think when the first shots were fired that everyone was completely in a confused state of shock, which is why Gary and Richard took so long to retrieve their own weapons. If there were two gunmen, it's my opinion that there would have been more shooting going on in the living room area, as opposed to the hallway and back bedroom. Not too long ago I read online somewhere that the case was to be closed, simply because it's been so long. I've sort of dealt with the fact that since it has grown older, it's likelihood of being solved has decreased. I do have hope though. Thanks again. :)
Laura
Chillicothe, OH
#118 Feb 6, 2008
Hi Mary,
Sorry to hear about the passing of your grandfather. I was hoping that when Bobra Johnson from the Emmet county sheriff's department got involved that they would have finally closed the case. But the DNA results did not work out;just too old a sample. She and her partner really tried to bring closure to this case. I have always thought that it was possible for Scolaro to have acted alone, although when I got the police report, there was an expert who had analyzed the case and believed that there were two shooters. It is very possible though, that only Scolaro was involved. This case affected a lot of people's lives.
richard-petoskey
Pellston, MI
#120 Apr 10, 2008
One reason that I was given for the violence in this particular incident 40 years ago (by someone who personally knew the perpetrator) was-
----desperate people do desperate things----
After researching this case for the past 10 months I believe that is what happened. Joe Scolaro ran out of options that June morning in 1968. Not a killer by nature, but driven to be one by lies and misdoings!!!!
psychedelic survivor
Athens, GA
#168 Jun 7, 2008
JetstarIII wrote:Yes, there is something which lingers and grabs people's psyches about this case. I was 17 then when it happened. My boyfriend at the time lived in Birmingham and I lived in Rosedale Park, Detroit so we rode the freeway as far as Lathrup Village in those days, then exited for local roads. I could not pass that Lathrup Village exit without thinking of these victims. It is a case which nags at you. At the time I read all the articles I could find. They made a big deal about finding a round necklace/medallion with the Roebert on it, with that spelling. The police wanted anyone who knew of its origin to come forward but no one ever did. Now when the case is discussed this detail never surfaces. Nags at me because they had emphasized its importance so much. Did you know that about two years ago Emmet County decided to look into the case again because someone up there at the Police Dept. had found some sort of a shoe box with papers or some new evidence in it. I get the urge to keep checking on the web about this case and when I did I found a couple articles about it. Yes. I'd certainly like to hear more tales of the north woods around those parts. As a kid family friends had cottages there and I went to camp around there and so many people had occasion to "go up north" as we Ganders would say. But I'm a Georgian now. Please email me at rminiver@yahoo.com Thnaks
I'm from Saginaw, MI. I've been visiting Carp Lake/Mackinaw City almost every summer on vacation since I was two years old, and family has both lived and vacationed there since the early 40's. Among other strange occurrences or scary 'stories' in the area, the Robison tragedy has intrigued us for many years. My mom recalls being up there at the family cottage on Elder Road near Carp Lake, in July of 1968 when she was seventeen, and how my grandfather took her and her sisters through Good Hart, to drive past the Robison cottage only a few days after the bodies were found. This affected her in a way because prior to the incident, they never had to lock the cottage doors at night. She says she was also 'banned' from taking her sisters to their favorite swimming spot which is a quiet, almost hidden area on Sturgeon Bay about seven miles north of Good Hart. Recently for my mom's birthday, my brother and I purchased 'A Tarnished Eye' after finding out about the book from reading the little info available on the tragedy. She enjoyed it so much she found a copy of 'Dead End'. A month ago, I went up to Mackinaw City for a short camping trip. Before I left, my mom contacted her cousin (my 2nd cousin) who lives up there in the summer to ask if we could pitch our tent on her property in case the campground was full. My mom brought up the two books she just read and the two got into a discussion about the Robison murders. She told my mom that she still had the first news articles from July of 1968. She also mentioned something else...That her uncle, who was a stone mason, and building a new cottage in Good Hart in early/mid summer of '68, told his family one day after coming home from the job [quote] "They think they're all rich and 'hotty-totty' up there, but they smell terrible", complaining of an awful odor he would smell while building this new cottage... I found this very intriguing. During my short camping trip last month, I visited Good Hart, of course with my camera, to get a shot of where the cottage once was. Since it was razed shortly after the incident, it's hard to know where it exactly happened. If anyone has any info it would be helpful, as my mom plans to take a trip up to Mackinaw soon and would like to visit Good Hart. Also, if anyone would like to share stories about the area, I have many strange and sometimes scary, but true, stories I have gathered from family and from personal experiences from growing up vacationing in Emmet County.
EDITOR'S NOTE:
The comment above, #168 on June 7, 2008, was the FIRST POST on the forum by Edward Wayne Edwards as "psychedelic survivor."
The St. Christopher's medal around Richard Robison's neck was noted in a March 13, 1969 article by The Detroit News.
The Detroit News
Sunday, March 23, 1969
By Joseph Wolfe
State Police disclosed to The Detroit News Saturday ... found a St Christopher medal ... around the neck of Robison...The medal ... had remained almost unnoticed in the State Police crime laboratory in East Lansing until relatives raised questions about it.
Given a list of items held by police, to help settle the family estate, the relatives, close friends and associates all said they were mystified by it.
The medal, an inch and a half in diameter, has an embossed figure of St Christopher on one side. Its reverse side bears several words and odd markings which read:
Richard
<^ <^
To my chosen son and heir
God bless you
Roebert
Robison's relatives say they do not know the identity of "Roebert."psychedelic survivor
Under the name Richard are two small triangular markings, and under the name Roebert are dots under the three middle letters.
Athens, GA
#169 Jun 7, 2008
Mardi wrote:Hi Mardi, You've written the book I always wanted to do but couldn't tackle. Really looking forward to reading it. Is it okay now to know your name? After all, you have it on the cover don't you?
Bill,
you are a gem. If you are the Bill with the Mule ...In case I didn't tell you that already.
I thank you in the acknowledgements. As my "mobile tour guide."
I think there are some solid real reasons why people keep coming back to This One, this case:
1) In 68, when I was 17, it was virtually unheard of for a whole family to be wiped out for no explicable reason.
2) The setting was MOST unlikely.
3) For many middle class Detroiters, which includes Lathrup Villagers etc. in this context, getting away from the Detroit area was THE one escape strategy. If you didn't have a "cottage" "up North" someone you knew did. So the Robersons were murdered in a place that was, to all of us, a haven. Most frightening. Most disturbing. And we all felt it could have been us. And why them, we wondered.
4) The idea that it was a revenge hit due to a bad pay schedule just never washed with a lot of people because of the sheer, unnecessary brutality of the crime. Hard to buy it.
5) The bludgeoning. I still really have a problem accepting that someone angry about money would do that to the young girl. We know so much more now about sex crimes, crimes of hate and aggression than the cops did then. This crime was VERY personal and so we're all mystified, and there is just too much not accounted for.
Lastly I do want to comment on FAMILY'S email of several months back. People out here are FAR more understanding and sympathetic to the feelings of the actual family members than FAMILY thinks. 99.9% of us do not approach them, don't even know who they are, wouldn't think of intruding on their sad reality. But this event was part of OUR reality too and as anyone can see by reading this site, MANY people were deeply moved by the event. Troubled because the crime widened the crack developing in our middle class society, a fissure emitting chaos and terror.
psychedelic survivor
Utica, KY
#175 Jun 19, 2008
On Nov. 17, 2007 Ann L. writes that her uncle was "the last person to see them alive". Was this uncle not interviewed for Mardi's book? Or is someone else assumed to be the last person to see them?
psychedelic survivor
Phenix City, AL
#176 Jun 19, 2008
Ann L.- It just occured to me, in the interest of furthering this cold case - would you consider interviewing your relative and writing it up in this forum? Thank you, Survivor
Laura
Highland, IN
#177 Jun 19, 2008
According to the police report, the last people to see the Robisons alive were the tree trimers (Russel Figg and his helpers). They had finished work around 5:00 on June 25 and were paid that day since Richard Robison told them they would not be there the next day. When Figg and his helpers arrived the next day to finish the job, they assumed the Robisons had left as previously stated. They did notice the drapes were closed in the cabin and the taped message on the window.
Laura
Highland, IN
#178 Jun 19, 2008
When one of the helpers became curious and lifted the note that was taped to the window, he noticed the bullet holes. Unfortunately, they had assumed they were made by one of the kids playing with a BB gun; that is why it was never reported.
United States
#180 Jun 20, 2008
Laurie wrote:Laurie, You are not the only one who has noticed this discrepancy and been bothered by it. It is very interesting to remember that this event took place in 1968. Now, in 2008, we have so much more understanding of sexual predators, their behavior patterns, other types of killers, the general look of a killing-for-hire, etc. and the very great differences between them. To me this one feature, the assault of the mother, makes the panicked-business- partner motive fall apart. Scolaro would have to have been momentarily psychotic to include this bit in the event. Either that or he would have to have had an extensive history of sexual assault and violence and probably a life history of anti-social activity. But, you, know, I've read essentially nothing about this man except for his supposed relationship to this crime. Thanks for pointing out a red flag I hadn't put into words myself.
Having read all of these postings there is one thing I have not seen discussed which somewhat nags at me. Forgive me if my ignorance of the case is showing, but I believe I've read that Mrs. Robison was sexually assaulted? Doesn't it seem very odd that a business associate in a panic over having his embezzlement discovered would add rape to the agenda? Wouldn't that have complicated things quite a lot for the perpetrator? And might not the assault be an important insight into motive? It does sound as though there was a lot of evidence pointing at this man, but I can't help wondering how this point ties in. Perhaps someone can comment.
Laurie
United States
#181 Jun 20, 2008
If it's true that the mother and the daughter, but not any of the males, were singled out for the most hands-on vicious treatment (rape and bludgeoning), wouldn't you think that at the very least the killer had a particular problem with females? I don't know enough about this to be having opinions, and I'm certainly not a shrink. But as you say, it would be interesting to know more about the background of the guy they think did it.
Laura
Highland, IN
#183 Jun 21, 2008
Did it ever occur to anyone that it was "staged" to look like like a rape? No one was ever able to ascertain that she was really raped.
United States
#187 Jun 21, 2008
Hey Mardi, Don't feel uncomfortable about promoting yourself. Writing a book is a huge endeavor and you and the book deserve some attention. I hope it's a good book since I can't wait to read it! Best of luck.
By the way, what do you know about the Roebert medal? When I read the initial news articles in 68 there was so much attention paid to this mysterious item. Thanks
Mardi L
Since: Jan 08
Traverse City, MI
#189 Jun 21, 2008
The Roebert medal found around Dick Robison's neck was a St. Christopher necklace with a note "to my chosen son" and the name "Roebert" scratched on the back in an uneven scrawl. Curious because the Robison family were active Lutherans, not Catholics.
St. Christopher is the patron saint of travelers (though for a while there was some argument about his sainthood) and such a necklace was worn to ward off "sudden death," according to The Catholic Dictionary. In my own youth, St. Christopher medals were given from boyfriend to girlfriend to signify you were going steady.
I never found out who Roebert was or if he was a real person at all. In one of my conversations with Al Koski, a reporter who's covered this case for decades and has amassed a lot of research, he intimated to me that he knew who Roebert was. He never told me what he knew, if indeed he knew it, and I never found out on my own.
Supposedly Roebert was the money guy behind Dick Robison's big business plans. Not sure if those were real, either.
psychedelic survivor
Florence, SC
#191 Jun 22, 2008
Thanks for the reply about the Roebert medal, Mardi. I found one of Al Koski's articles, on-god-knows what link on the internet, and it discussed Mr. Roberson's rather out-there plans for some kind of world peace organization, supposedly including these other businessmen. I'm sure you've got it covered in the book. I'm mentioning it because frankly it sounded REALLY out there, not just a little bit wacko. If Mr. Koski is still alive I would really hope he lets someone know who this Roebert was, what this "chosen son" inscription would have meant etc, etc.
What I'm also feeling is that it just can not be a coincidence that this wacky talk comes from a man whose entire family then gets murdered.
psychedelic survivor
Utica, KY
#192 Jun 24, 2008
Just read Al Parker's June 22nd Records Eagle review of When Evil Came to Good Hart, Mardi Link's new book. Says it's meticulous and very well done. Great! We who have all these questions about this nagging case are happy to see a good job done on it.
psychedelic survivor
Phenix City, AL
#194 Jun 25, 2008
]Thanks, Matt, for the kind words about my uncle. Mardi and Matt: I am not going to talk about his involvement any more, until I talk to him. When I do, I'll relate his memories here if he's okay with that. Maybe he wasn't the last one to see them alive, maybe it's just what I remember at the time. I'll double-check. The murders consumed us during that time, and this was just another detail I remember. By the way, I also remember that Mrs. Robison may not have been sexually assaulted, it just looked that way because she had been dragged by her feet, pulling her dress up.(Maybe I should stop relating my memories until I can back them up!) I am just another person who was horrified about the murders because we knew them.Ann, your memories are valuable. You never know when something long remembered could turn out to be important. That's happened a lot of times with investigations. It's good to cover both ends - check out everything you can, as you mentioned last and also keep trying to bring up memories not usually dwelled upon. You know, the three hairs from Mrs. Robison were apparently not any good forensically but if anything at all was determined from them it would be interesting to know, such as, were they at least found to be male or female. People say the killer "just made it look like a sex-agression killing" but I really doubt that. People were not sophisticated about that stuff then, especially knowing enough to make a personal attack against a seven year old girl as well as the mother.
Mardi, I am really looking forward to buying your book. It sounds like you have worked hard getting the facts straight, and not embellishing things.
Are you going to be at Bliss Fest?(Quote who = Ann L.)
Laura
Highland, IN
#195 Jun 25, 2008
Today, June 25th, marks the 40th anniversary of the Robison's murder. It is amazing how fast time flies. I still remember being 8 years old seeing the newspaper with their names and pictures splashed acrossed the front. Suzie Robison would have been 48 years old this year had she lived.
Laura
Highland, IN
#199 Jun 26, 2008
Hi Mardi,
Very interesting stuff! I am friends with Al Koski and I am going to let him know. He knew Scolaro and all the key players in this case. I think he has some of the transcripts of Scolaro's lie detector test. Stearns, the lead detective of this case, told me that Scolaro was very complacent about the murders. Stearns has no doubt at all that Scolaro was guilty.
United States
#201 Jun 26, 2008
Hi Barbara,
In the middle ages and just before the Reformation the Catholic Church allowed Dollars For Divine Intervention to get way out of hand. I used to be Catholic and am now a member of another major religion but even so I just want y'all to know that the official line in Catholicism is that nobody has to pay saints to do anything. It's just that the folks at the top had a real nice cottage industry going so Martin Luther and others got mad and broke off from Rome.
MARDI! You see, it's amazing what can come out of the woodwork when a little publicity is applied. Great that you will be getting in touch with the polygraph man. And thanks so much for telling all of us right away instead of saving it for Book 2. Thank you.
psychedelic survivor
United States
#202 Jun 26, 2008
Ann L wrote:Yes, we are all more tuned than usual to this event which has been on each of our back burners. I want to clarify that I think you SHOULD spend time remembering and that your memories are valuable.
<quoted text>
Amen.
Thank you, psychedelic survivor, for your insight about potentially flawed memories. The older I get, the less convinced I've become of my own recollection without some back up proof.
I had no idea, Laura, that yesterday was the "anniversary". Maybe that's why we've all been subconsciously more in tune to this site...
psychedelic survivor
Powder Springs, GA
#208 Jun 28, 2008
Barbara wrote:Barbara, I'm quite surprised that there was no coverage. I lived my entire adult life away from MI, then returned once every few years to visit. I hadn't visited in YEARS when in the summer, around '96, I brought my toddler to see the folks. I sat down next to the coffee table and the old newspapers and,THERE IT WAS, headlines on the front of the Living section, a retelling of the Robison crime. And now, apparently nothing. Quite surprising if true.
Am I crazy, or did none of the major Detroit area papers do an artical on the anniversary?
psychedelic survivor
United States
#218 Jul 2, 2008
MiMi wrote:Hi Mimi, Who is Mark Warren Brock? Thanks
I read about this story a few months ago and have been fascinated with it ever since! I haven't read all 211 posts, but I did read quite a bit and I didn't see anyone mention anything about "Mark Warren Brock"?
psychedelic survivor
United States
#220 Jul 3, 2008
MiMi wrote:I haven't ever heard of Brock. I suppose he's dead by now.
Hi! He was a convict who was supposedly hired by the business partner, to kill the family. He lived in a halfway house in Detroit, with another man named Bloxom (or something like that) and it was Bloxom that went to police with the story. He said that he drove Brock to Flint to meet Scolaro at an area restaurant. He later went on to say that Brock had picked up guns in Ohio, then drove to Good Hart to murder the family. Brock never confessed to this, nor did he ever speak about what he possibly knew.
Kim
AOL
#221 Jul 3, 2008
I just read a magazine - HOUR - in Detroit, MI - June edition with a 3-4 page story mentioning everything that had to do with the case - including the luggage tag.
Utica, KY
#223 Jul 4, 2008
The HOUR Detroit article of June '08 is now available on the web in it's entirety. It's a must read for those interested in this case. Go to Post #158 for the link.
EDITOR'S NOTE (EXCERPT FROM HOUR DETROIT JUNE 2008 ARTICLE):
The case stalled after Scolaro’s death. Then, in February 1974, a state trooper made a routine search of a blue 1965 Chevrolet with Ohio license plates that had been found deserted by the side of M-14. Inside the glove box was a luggage tag bearing the inscription: “Shirley L. Robison 18790 Dolores, Lathrup Village, Michigan.”
What was such an item doing inside an abandoned car six years after the murders and 200 miles from the crime scene? Detectives combed the car for clues. They found nothing. A title search showed it had been purchased new off a Toledo lot in 1966.
Between then and its abandonment several years later, any number of people could have driven it, legally and illegally. Every registered owner was tracked down. Nobody could recall ever seeing the tag or had any idea how it got there. The forsaken Chevy and derelict luggage tag added up to just one more baffling dead end.psychedelic survivor
United States
#226 Jul 8, 2008
Tim wrote:Hi Tim, I agree about Monnie. There are two distinct "coincidences" in this heinous event that are tough to reconcile as "just coincidences". One is the fact that Mr. Robison wrote some really hi-blown fantasy stuff about "world peace" etc. and had some relationships with men who were never identified. But we're told this had absolutely nothing to do with the family's murder. Second "coincidence" is what you mention, that this Monnie, showing clear psychosis and unacceptable behavior, such as turning up in people's cabins, is also not connected with the crime. These strange facts have done a lot to keep this case alive in people's minds. In terms of solving the case, something's got to give here, and I do think it can still be solved because someone KNOWS.
That was by the far the most comprehensive article I have read. I know he may not have much to do with the case, but the part about Monnie Bliss frying up eggs in people's cottages at 4am gave me chills.
Here is another recent article, with some good pictures of the cottage:
http://www.record-eagle.com/northernliving/local_story_174100020.html?keyword=topstory
psychedelic survivor
Boynton Beach, FL
#232 Jul 14, 2008
Summerset watcher wrote:Do pastors and priests get paid for their work? Or should they do good out of the sweetness of their hearts and hope someone offers food and lodging? Do psychologists get paid for their work or should they "be there" and just donate time and energy to people? In our culture and in this day and age people who want to do good can not function without money. I think Mardi's book is doing a great job of getting this awful crime back into people's consciousness. That's the only hope there is for solving it. If she gets paid via book sales for all her time and efforts I think that's just fine. You are critical of EXPLOITATION, which is not what she engaged in by writing the book.
Mardi,
How many books were printed in the first run? You must be thrilled this book is selling so well! However, I am saddened to see so many people either take an interest in or make a profit off of someone else's tragedy. It seems after 40 years the case should be long forgotten.
psychedelic survivor
Boynton Beach, FL
#234 Jul 15, 2008
Rick wrote:That's how I would feel too. The worst thing is to be forgotten under such circumstances. Plus all this media and public attention is simply an indication that people feel concern. I sense quite a different emotional atmosphere surrounding this event than say the Manson killings or the Cunanen murders. There was a great deal of visceral sensationalism with them but this one is somehow a lot more personal.
<quoted text>
Perhaps that's how some might feel, but if it had been my family I think I would appreciate the fact that people were interested enough to wonder what happened to them. I wouldn't appreciate being "long forgotten" when justice hasn't been served. I would be thankful, not saddened. Just my opinion!
psychedelic survivor
United States
#241 Jul 20, 2008
KLH wrote:This is very unsettling to me too, KLH. That's why some posts back I said I'd really like to know a lot more about Scolaro as a person and about his life. I feel it's very hard to accept the event as coverup just for embezzlement etc. because it was so gruesome. However, I can buy the theory that Scolaro paid thugs to do it and who knows what that type of person gets their rocks off with? A little extra violence perchance?
I just visited Good Hart for vacation, and I also read Mardi's book while there.
I have a few questions someone may be able to answer: what about the bloody footprint? It seems that even if no exact shoe match could be made, shoe/foot size certainly could. Did the print match Scolaro's foot?
How about the note left on the door? Did the Robisons actually write it? Was the handwriting ever checked on the note?
Finally, doesn't it seem odd that someone like a Scolaro could so violently murder 6 people, drag them, bludgeon them, possibly rape them, turn up the heat and lock the doors, just to cover up embezzlement? Doesn't that type of person exhibit other violent behaviors throughout life?
EDITOR'S NOTE:
408-character Zodiac cipher was decoded in 1969, as follows, except the last 18 characters, which were not decoded.
"I like killing people because it is so much fun it is more fun than killing wild game in the forest because man is the most dangerous animal of all to kill something gives me the most thrilling experience it is even better than getting your rocks off with a girl the best part of it is that when I die I will be reborn in paradise and all the (people) I have killed will become my slaves I will not give you my name because you will try to slow down or stop my collecting of slaves for my afterlife."
psychedelic survivor
Utica, KY
#250 Jul 24, 2008
KLH wrote:
Tim and Psychedelic Survivor,
Thanks for your comments! I do believe Scolaro was partially responsible, but I feel looking at the evidence that others were, too. It would be nice to see those others brought to justice.
It seems to me that Scolaro was the only one who could have set up the whole scenario/Roebert thing, since Scolaro was the one who was POC while Robison's were to be 'gone' to Kentucky and Florida. Scolaro should have been the one who would become concerned when he didn't hear from the Robisons for such a long time. Roebert must have been a fake or in on it, because he would have been concerned, too, if he really was supposed to take them on this trip. No Joyce, no Roebert, Scolaro makes someone else make a phone call to Robison on the night of June 24th, according to Mardi's book...seems to me like Roebert is a made up person, and Scolaro was setting it up so that the Robisons wouldn't be missed for a few weeks. So that makes me think he (or the murderers/thugs) might write a note like that to put on the window. To keep people away longer.
KLH, there was a round "St. Christopher" type medallion found at the crime scene with the engraving "My chosen son - Roebert". Therefore either someone gave this to Mr. Robison or Robison had it made himself. Either way it's a hinky piece of evidence. The police made quite a fuss over it at the time. I remember it was mentioned repeatedly in newspaper articles and they implored the public to come forward to explain the medal's orogin, it's meaning, the odd spelling. I think they wrote at one point that no one in MI could be found with this spelling etc. So if Robison had it made for himself, well, that's pretty wacky. If someone else gave it to him there's a lot more to be found out - which is the Square One they were all at in 1968.
Editor's Note: Richard Roberson was adopted. Richard’s sister told detectives that she was not sure he even knew that he was adopted. Did Richard find out he was adopted and maybe got some non identifying information from the same source? Did this source give feedback to Richard, a little at a time, and expand the scam as Richard reacted to it?
psychedelic survivor
Boynton Beach, FL
#258 Jul 26, 2008
Christopher wrote:Yes, look up Al Koski's articles and also the more recent ones from the newspapers printed around June 22 of this year. It is known that Roberson booked himself into several hotel rooms without receiving visitors or going out. Nobody knows what he was doing. Too late now, but phone records should have been checked. Good thing you are looking at out of state papers. They seem to have little details that are different. I never heard that he went to San Fran. You should sit down and read this entire post. It's revealing and it doesn't really take too long.
Also, I was going through some old issues of the Toledo Blade newspaper from Aug. of '68 and there was an Associated Press story that contained information that the father spent some time both in San Francisco and at a hotel out by Metro Airport (Detroit) for several days, evidently without the knowledge of his wife or rest of the family.
Has anyone heard about these details before?
psychedelic survivor
Boynton Beach, FL
#259 Jul 26, 2008
I just mispelled the family name in the prvious post. Of course, I meant to write Robison. Thanks
psychedelic survivor
Utica, KY
#264 Aug 2, 2008
Does anybody know a website/link where I can identify a particular unsolved double homicide in Michigan which I remember from the 60's? I know some details, no names or excat location. Thanks ahead of time.
psychedelic survivor
Boynton Beach, FL
#266 Aug 4, 2008
Hi Tim, Thanks very much for the tip. I registered at the post you suggested. Just to let you know, at this time almost no activity is taking place there. Some states have only one "member" posting. I'll keep checking it but if you do remember the other site please jot it down for me. And I guess I might as well ask here again - does anybody remember a double homicide taking place in the outer suburbs of Detroit, about 1969? A van was found on a frozen pond with two young people inside, murdered. The police made numerous requests for information via the newspapers. There was something about this crime that really had them stumped. It may have been something about no footprints leading away from the van, yet no murder weapon inside the van - something like that. Anyway, if anybody remembers any name or place associated with this please mention it on this site. Thanks one and all. Thanks again, Tim
psychedelic survivor
Florence, SC
#275 Aug 7, 2008
Tim wrote:Hi Tim, You heard about this event when you were four. You can then imagine how it impacted me. I was 17 and remember the newspsper reports with extreme clarity. 17 is an impressionable age. As to the cardboard note and possible forensic handwriting analysis, plus the other pieces of evidence mentioned, do you know whether these things are still in existence in a cold case file? The note could STILL be analysed. As to your reference to metallic blue and the prison Leavenworth, not all of us know what that's about. Is it mentioned in Mardi's book? Thanks
Back to the Leavenworth lead... Robin's egg blue, In certain lighting/weather conditions, can be confused as looking light metallic silver.
EDITOR'S NOTE:
It is mentioned in the June 2008 Hour Detroit article.
Edwards served time in Leavenworth prison from 1962 to 1967.
On January 20, 1962, Edwards was caught in Atlanta for escaping jail in Portland, Oregon. He was in Georgia with his new wife Marlene Harmon (pages 306-321). He was unsuccessful in his attempt to break out of county jail in Georgia (pages 322-333). Edwards was incarcerated at Leavenworth Prison 1962-1967 (page 334). Marlene divorced him in 1963 while he was in prison.
In February 1967, Edwards was moved from Leavenworth to Lewisburg Federal Prison and allowed to be out in the community (page 363). He was teaching first aid training classes for the American Red Cross (page 5) and preparing for his future parole. Edwards and Jimmy Hoffa served time together in Lewisburg prison in 1967 (page 373). In March 1967, in California, Charlie Manson was released on parole and started the Helter Skelter killings. On September 20, 1967, after only six months in Lewisburg Federal Prison (page 3), Edwards was released and was on parole until 1977 (page 4 and page 389). He was an FBI informant while in prison, which was why he was released 10 years early on parole. He only served five years of a 15-year sentence for bank robbery.
On October 17, 1972, serial killer Edward Wayne Edwards appeared on "To Tell The Truth." He had been released four years earlier from Leavenworth Prison, and he had just written an autobiography, "Metamorphosis of a Criminal, the True Life Story of Ed Edwards," bragging that he was reformed. It was all a con.
psychedelic survivor
United States
#284 Aug 15, 2008
I finished Mardi Link's book. It makes many details much clearer. Many of the questions posed throughout this topic are answered in it. I highly recommend that folks who are passionate about case get the book.
psychedelic survivor
United States
#291 Aug 16, 2008
Dear James Pecora,
You are right in that quite a few earlier posts were dunning your book. I haven't read it but I'm interested. What I want to know is this : Is it your position that every statement in your book, other than statements of opinion, is absolutely factual? Thank you.
EDITOR'S NOTE:
Pecora is author of "Dead End," which is a fictionalized account of the Robison family murders. On page VII of "Dead End," Pecora does state outright that "Dead End" is "a fictional novel based on a mass murder of a prominent Detroit, Michigan advertising executive and his entire family."Laura
Mccordsville, IN
#300 Aug 19, 2008
Mr. Pecora,
I had to laugh when I read your response. If defending Monnie Bliss casts me as a "bitter woman" so be it. I have spoken to many people who had known Monnie Bliss and he may have been odd but he was not a murderer.
You state I am "hallucinating?" I have your book right in front of me and on page 285 chapter 27 you state that John Fliss (under a fictitious name) died. John Fliss is very much alive. You should get your facts straight.
I didn't email you personally because I thought the public might be interested in your response to my questions. Instead of acting in a professional manner you chose instead to launch an attack.
I will not respond to you again since it is obviously a waste of time.
United States
#314 Aug 29, 2008
To MARDI LINK:
I just read your book and you have a sentence in there that states that Monnie Bliss laid a trip wire across a road in an attempt to kill his son, but somebody else tripped it instead. The way it's written is like it is actual fact, not an accusation. Could you clarify? Thanks
psychedelic survivor
Florence, SC
#316 Aug 30, 2008
Tim wrote:OKAY TIM, so you know for a fact that Monnie Bliss had nothing to do with this? Thanks
Psychedelic, I was curious about the same thing. Although it is made clear by Mardi that this was just a theory by reporter John Clock, and it says that he admitted he had no hard facts to back this up. I am wondering why he came up with this. Was there an accident reported on M119 in Good Hart May 1968 that was caused by a tripwire across the road? Mr. Bliss had nothing to do with this, we can thank Noggle for some of the discredit Monnie got and thank Noggle for not busting Scolaro quick enough...
psychedelic survivor
Since: Jun 08
Boynton Beach, FL
#319 Sep 3, 2008
coventry wrote:
Tim, I think it's hilarious that you are asking about the juvenile prison facility on Robinson. I have grown up summering in H.S. and always go up to Good Hart to buy my Pot Pies from the Sutherlands(who, by the way, are really good people)at the G.H. general store. My 12 year old son who now spends his summers up north with me has seen the Juvy prison many times, but just last week he asked if we could get out and walk around it. It was very creepy and forbodding. He wanted to know what kids did to be housed there. I, of course, told him kids 12 and over that smoke and mouth off to there moms get 5 years.
I read Mardi's book this summer. It was so good and if you know the people and the area you really know how well written it is and you really get the feeling. I was seven when the tradgedy occured and never in my life would I have ever thought I would have been this riveted to this event 40 yeARS later. Just last Friday, I actually had a car stop my son and me on 119 (they were obviously from downstate...a car full of people, about 6)asking me if I had heard of the murders and if I knew where the site of the cottage was. They, too, had read Mardis book. I told them it was "impossible" to find. Scolaro had this done with the help of 2 or more deranged, sick thugs. This is still my take. But Mr. Robison is and always will be a mystery. What a narcississtic weirdo. Oh well, we are back downstate and school has started. Thank you one and all for making this an interesting summer and Mardi for providing us with the best summer read yet.Hi. I agree that Scolaro had help. In fact I believe that he wasn't there at all because it was risky business firing at least 6 shots at nightfall with several other cabins close by. I think he pawned the job off on somebody else, got rid of the weapons but didn't think ballistics from the fatal bullets would be matched up with the debris at his father in law's shooting range. In fact, if Scolaro had never practiced at that range no evidence at all woulf link him to this crime.
psychedelic survivor
Since: Jun 08
United States
#324 Sep 4, 2008
Tim wrote:Now, Tim, that's a bright new idea you have - that the Roebert medal was placed on Robison AFTER he was killed. I have never heard that suggested before but it makes sense. If he had worn it all the time wouldn't Shirley or others have wondered about what it meant? If you have ever seen a photo of the medal you know that the words have been scratched on. They were not professionally engraved. So I can just picture Scolaro, not wanting to leave any future testimony with an engraver, scratching the thing up himself or asking that the killers do it...Tim, have you read Mardi's book? There, and in other writings, it states pretty clearly that there is no indication that Robison ever met Roebert. Here's the trouble I have with the Scolaro/Superior Table Scam idea. If Scolaro made up all these people etc....well, would Robison have been so dumb as to get so entrenched and emotionally involved in just a story from Scolaro, just a talk scam where no money or people ever showed up.... I can't buy this scenario. Had to be more to it. Anybody have an idea on this? Thanks
Did Robison ever actually meet this 'Roebert'? I have a feeling this was a character made up by Scolaro to get more money out of him. The 'Superior Table' was also probably made up of mainly non-existent people. Whether or not Robison was in on this to make some 'extra cash' or if it was all concocted by Scolaro, who knows. Weren't the Robisons supposedly getting ready to meet this 'Roebert' the evening they were murdered, when they were all sitting around waiting for (someone) and to go to Pellston airport on their way to Kentucky/Florida? I just think that they met 'Robert' all right that evening, in the guise of Brock perhaps. Scolaro was either present or not to help. The St.Christopher's medal with the strange message was placed around Mr.Robison's neck after he was dead, perhaps. Along with everything else that was done to cover the tracks...
This is just my theory.
psychedelic survivor
Florence, SC
#327 Sep 6, 2008
Holly wrote:Holly, you too, have brought out a possibility I haven't heard of yet. Was there something in the cottage that the killer wanted? Let's say Robison believed he needed a large amount of cash to go to Kentucky etc. The killer may have believed or may have been told he had it at the cottage. In order to thoroughly ransack the whole place every family member would have to have been controlled/subdued. But the problem with this idea is that there was no indication that a large search was undertaken. However, didn't I read somewhere that Robison's leather briefcase went missing? Well, if all the killer wanted was the briefcase he wouldn't have had to murder everybody. I think the killer(s) killed everyone because they were psychopaths who simply couldn't have cared less. And of course, if Scolaro did it alone he just didn't want any witnesses.
I've read all three of the books nowand after finishing Mardi's book, I do believe that Scolaro was involved up to his ears in it. He may or may not have been at the cottage that night, though. I also feel that most of the Roebert/Superior Table stuff was created by Scolaro. But, here is the question that has puzzled me for a long time. Why kill the entire family? No matter why they wanted Robison dead, what reason was there to kill the rest of the family? If Scolaro hired thugs to do the killing, there would have been no danger of the family seeing him and being able to testify against him and they would be unlikely to recognize the thugs. I can't think of any inheritance issues that would have made it expedient to kill them. All I can come up with, is that there was something there in the cottage that night that the murderers were not able to get without killing the entire family. Any other theories about this?
psychedelic survivor
Memphis, TN
#332 Sep 6, 2008
Tim wrote:Tim, I think you are right - Scolaro could have just hidden behind a bush and taken out the only person who mattered - Richard Robison. He could have accomplished that so easily without being spotted. But the utter devastation of the whole family says "psychos", paid or not, to me.
Psych and Holly, as far as I know the only things taken of value that night besides Shirley and the children, were Shirley's wedding ring and maybe a couple hundred in cash if that. I don't think there was anything much in the briefcase besides some family photos and 'business papers' I could be wrong though. This is why I think one or two goons were hired by Scolaro. The whole family did not need to be killed but perhaps killing them all would help throw everyone off, just as we are now. And a couple of weirdos might enjoy this task, which explains the hammer use and possibly Shirley's posed rape. Dead End says that Mr.Robison was also hit with the hammer, not sure if that is correct. Scolaro might have added such further instructions, that Mr.Robison was a 'leg man'.
If Scolaro was there alone, he could have just hid behind that bush and shoot a couple rounds through the window and take out Mr.Robison, and then run away. Done. Isn't that basically what happened anyway, except that the killer or killers then proceeded into the cottage to shoot the rest? There was a panic inside after the first two shots while Mr.Robison was probably already dead. Whether or not someone saw the killer(s) and recognized them and that is why the the rest of the fam was killed, hard to say. If that is true then that might indicate that Scolaro WAS there and was recognized and the whole family had to be killed. This is why this case is unsolved. So many questions and contradictions. Many theories could be possible.
What would it take for this case to get some national attention via television? It sounds really bad I know but when you think about such old shows like Unsolved Mysteries, America's Most Wanted, and new shows like Cold Case Files, etc, a lot of cases have been given new light or even solved because of these shows and the national attention they get.
I meant to mention - some years ago I wrote to Cold Case Files and to America's Most Wanted to outline the case and press them to cover it but I heard nothing back. But with the success of Mardi's book we might see something "show" up. I hope so.
psychedelic survivor
Since: Jun 08
United States
#340 Sep 10, 2008
Dear Mardi, Are you still searching for new material?
psychedelic survivor
Powder Springs, GA
#343 Sep 11, 2008
Mardi L wrote:Hi Mardi, I was wondering whether you were looking for new ideas in the crime genre for another book. Thanks
Topix wouldn't let me post the Sheriff's Office phone number in that last post, but it is area code two three one, then four three nine, eighty-nine hundred.
psychedelic survivor
Since: Jun 08
Utica, KY
#349 Sep 23, 2008
Thanks, Susan, for your passionate interest. I'd be scouring the library too if I lived in Michigan. I think it would be great if somebody up there made an independant inventory of the existing evidence and the whereabouts of such.
psychedelic survivor
Utica, KY
#351 Sep 26, 2008
Susan - Walloon Lake wrote:Susan, Reading between the lines, it sounds as if the material has not been organized or preserved very well. I sure wish I wasn't living 900 miles away. Somebody needs to put together a fund and some volunteers to totally organize the material and preserve it. As for preservation, a documents examiner or the library of congress can give advice on the correct methods, the use of plastic bi9ns, etc. Thanks again for your work.
I am trying to inventory what the library has it has been slow going thru things there. I'm not sure I will convince the research person there that I want to go thru all the boxes. I feel I might come across something that was overlooked. My next step is going to be contacting two of the authors and offering one of my new theories.
psychedelic survivor
Florence, SC
#355 Oct 3, 2008
Hi Richard/Petosky. You have marked out a very clear conclusion to this case - no doubt it's pretty close to the truth. The only thing I might mention is that according to psychiatric lore it is very rare for psychopaths to kill themselves. They don't feel guilty. And they don't suffer from depression. Nonetheless, Scolaro certainly could have been sociopathic. What's interesting to me is how he breezed through Harvard then descended into "darkness". Odd considering he had the wherewithall to acquire great wealth without being a criminal. Just my musings.
Laura
Mccordsville, IN
#357 Oct 3, 2008
Psychedelic Survivor,
Scolaro didn't breeze through Harvard; he dropped out after a year.
psychedelic survivor
Athens, GA
#360 Oct 5, 2008
Thanks for setting me straight on Scolaro's career at Harvard. Somewhere I read that R. Robison was extremely impressed with the "Harvard business grad" etc. but obviously that was inaccurate.
psychedelic survivor
Miami, FL
#362 Oct 9, 2008
Tim wrote:I'm sure Scolaro COULD have because I'm convinced he was involved but DID he? Are you saying someone has hinted that he wrote an "I know who did..."?
There was a little more to Scolaro's note than just what was stated by John. Scolaro could've also added a p.s.s; saying 'But I know who did'...
psychedelic survivor
Florence, SC
#364 Oct 13, 2008
Hey Katrina, Of all things related to this horrible case it's the medal which has always intrigued me the most. It is DEFINITELY something hinky no matter how you look at it. Personally I do believe that Shirley would have confided feelings, opinions and information to her relatives over the phone as most housewives do. The medal may not have ever been brought to her attention but the desires and expectations Richard Sr. had would have been. However it's pretty clear that Shirley and Richard's living relations do not want to divulge whatever came their way. You know, in answer to your question about "what's coming up in Nov.?", it's just amazing what a hold this event has on people. Take a look at the topics for Cross Village. "Emmet Co. Crashes...Library...fest..walk ing the mac. bridge...antique tractors....lost dog..." All these and more have 2 hits, 12 hits, 18 hits, 4 hits, 1 hit etc. But none compare to the Robison murder of long ago, which has 363 posts. Really incredible.
psychedelic survivor
United States
#374 Oct 19, 2008
Everybody out there - The Mask of Sanity is an absolute must to read for anybody wanting to understand what a psychopath (same as sociopath) is. This book is a classic and one of the very few textbooks I've ever read that's a "can't put it down". It's riveting. This is still as good a look as any, though it's old, into the minds of people who can do anything to anybody else without a hint of self doubt, without one iota of conscience. How do certain people get this way? It is still a mystery but we do know that SOME people who are seriously abused as children do become sociopathic. The problem is that there are quite a few sociopaths who never were abused as children or as adults. The cause is a mystery but science is slowly closing in.
VIDEO: AP Interview Part 2 Edward Edwards Confession 6/17/2010
Susan - Walloon Lake
Since: Sep 08
Cadillac, MI
#380 Oct 22, 2008
I have an opinion and I appreciate all the research that has been done before mine. I have read all three books. I have reviewed a majority of the boxes in the library. I am still continuing that process. Rick are you Rick Wiles who donated all your research to the Petoskey library? You have spent and incredible amount of time and effort into all your research. I have been reading about this since the summer that it happened as I was living here then and babysitting for cousins the night of the day we first learned of the murders. It may be very clear to some of you but my thoughts are that it has been a mystery with more unanswered questions The more you learn the more you need to know. Why did the killer(s) degrade the two women in the manner that they did? A mob hit would have been just that, why was it personal? I am putting together some unanswered questions that I need to have clarification on. Mardi, I understand you believe it is possible that it was a lone gunman. Based on your conversation after your gun class. I still think that there was more than one.
Just my thoughts and I think I have earned the right to express them.
Paul
Farmington, MI
#382 Oct 22, 2008
Did Rick Wiles ever publish his 194 page report in a newspaper, or is it only at the Petoskey public library? I am sure it would be facinating.
psychedelic survivor
Jacksonville, FL
#390 Oct 26, 2008
Ken, I, too, have always sort of guffawed at the prospect of the single intruder going in guns blazing in each hand like some Western movie. Let's say he started with the rifle. Sure, he could have the pistol in his pocket but to use it he has to put the rifle down in the midst of his victims.
If he took two weapons to make sure he had enough rounds without having to reload we would see a complete "set" of bullets from the rifle on the premises. But did anyone ever find such and, if so, record it? What we do know is he wouldn't use SOME of the rifle bullets and then abandon the rifle to use the pistol.
It is such a shame that good forensics and crime scene standards were not apparently applied. I am assuming that there is no record of who got shot by the .22 and where in the body, or who got shot by the .25 and where in the body. The body positions were noted. Today this messy crime scene could divulge at least trajectory for each and probably the order of shots. But in those days it was all just a lot of shooting with this rifle or that gun unless perfectly obvious, and then notation of location of shells etc.
Does anybody know whether at the library or elsewhere there is documentation on these tedious but very important points?
psychedelic survivor
Jacksonville, FL
#393 Oct 27, 2008
Ken wrote:Hi again. I go along with you on your analysis of Scolaro's character. I think he liked the good life, nice things and was certainly an embezzler and someone who wanted "stuff" no matter what was necessary to get it. But every intuition tells me this was NOT the kind of guy who liked to get his hands dirty. Intuition alone tells me he set this up, hired other people to do it and may have even been there to watch and make sure it was done "right", but I don't think Scolaro did the shootings.
Tim:
If you look at the picture of the 22 rifle in Mardi's book, it looks like it ejects shells to the right. Depending on how far that rifle ejects the shells, it would seem to indicate that 4 shots were fired through the window to the right of the door and the shells ended up on the ground to the right by that window. You wouldn't expect them to be so close to each other like the drawing shows. That may be exaggerated.
psychedelic survivor
United States
#411 Nov 3, 2008
Paul wrote:Paul, What good thoughts and observations. I think it would be great to get a real hot shot crime writer interested in this thing. Don't have particular respect for all of Mark Fuhrman's deeds but he is a very good writer. Wonder if he's busy. He could put this investigation on the map. I would LOVE to see modern forensics applied to this case. It's the only alternative to endless speculation, at least about the shooting event per se.
In reference to psychedelic survivor and Kens comments I also would like to see a modern day analysis done of what is known of the crime scene (through photos and investigation info from 1968) complete with bullet trajectories, shell locations, broken windows, bullet locations in the cabin as well as the bodies, body locations and drag marks, etc. Even if a new crime scene investigation done to todays standards couldn’t prove who did the killings I feel it might result in being able to determine if one or more shooters were involved. A second or third shooter may still be alive today.
I believe that Scolaro backed himself into a corner with his embezzling. He knew Dick was going to find out that the 200K wasn't going to be deposited at the bank, he would also be finding out about the rest of the missing money in the company account, Robison was also going to find out that the planned trip south on the 26th was a ruse likely developed in some way by Scolaro. Scolaro was backed into a corner and had to do something desperate. Having a reasonably high I.Q. and being shifty and manipulation as he was, I can’t believe he would be involved with the murders without an alibi, Scolaro had an alibi for the 24th according to interviews with the manufacturing representatives at the convention at Cobo Hall. Knowing that the family was to be at the cabin he hired a shooter or shooters to kill the family on Monday June 24th, Somehow the killing wasn’t done on the 24th, possibly one or more of the men Scolaro hired backed out, or possibly they couldn’t find the well hidden cabin, and Scolaro was forced to drive to Good Hart on the 25th to participate in the murders (fully or partially) and compromise his alibi he had set up for the 24th. Witnesses reported hearing two men shouting during the shooting from 1/4 mile away, if the investigators are correct that Richard was shot first his voice would likely not have been one of the men heard, my belief is that there were at least two shooters outside shouting instructions to each other, I can’t believe that one of the boys shouting from inside a thick log cabin could be heard 1/4 mile away and be thought of as a mans voice. I believe it is possible that Susan was not killed by the gunshot she received but might have regained consciousness and the assailants not wanting to draw any more attention to themselves with more gunfire, used a hammer. She could also have been hiding and killed with the hammer for the same reason. I also think that the way Shirley was discovered could have been set up to mislead investigators, or could help prove someone like Brock did indeed help Scolaro, who knows what motives and thoughts go through the head of a hardened career criminal. It was never proven if Shirley was sexually assaulted or not. I feel there is some truth to Bloxoms story which would point to a hired shooter or shooters.
Would someone who has seen the information on the killings at the Petoskey library let me know if the entire police report that is avalible through the freedom of information act, is included in the 7 boxes?
psychedelic survivor
United States
#412 Nov 3, 2008
Ken wrote:Ken, you are so right to questions these things!!!! The setup makes absolutely no sense!
I think we are on the same page. Some things still don't make sense. They have some multi millionaire dropping by for a couple of days and they are sitting around dressed in girdles and high heels and dress pants and coats waiting for him or they intend to leave with him. If he's going to stay, stay where - in the boy's bunk? In the barely stand up 2nd floor area? If he's staying, what is in the refrigerator to feed this person? If they are leaving, what ISN'T in the refrigerator - milk, eggs, left overs, fruit - anything that could spoil over a 2 to 3 week period? Where are all the other suitcases that need to be packed in case they were leaving immediately. How are you sitting around in the living room after learning that your checking account is down to $15,000? Why aren't you in the car driving home to find out what the heck has happened financially. He supposedly made 17 phone calls about it.
Last - if the letter from Richard to his "chosen father" isn't a phony, it had to be a long running scam to get a man like him into that kind of an emotional position. Frankly, it doesn't match the personality he is described as having at all.
One thing reading the book and the discussion here has done for me is to help me decide that "Evil" didn't come to Good Hart or anywhere else Up North. An evil person or persons came and did an evil act and left and, although they took their evil with them, they left scars behind and the fear that evil might either still be there or someday return.
psychedelic survivor
United States
#413 Nov 3, 2008
Sherlock wrote:Hi. Arew you saying you think the same gun was used on the Robisons and then later on Scolaro's suicide? If so the bullets would have matched from both scenes but I have always heard NO 25 was matched with the murder scene bullets.
Q: What was the cause of death of the murder victims?
A: 25 caliber gunshot wound to the temple.
Q: How did Scolaro commit suicide?
A: 25 caliber gunshot to the temple.
Habits repeat themselves. Case closed, Watson.
psychedelic survivor
United States
#414 Nov 3, 2008
Gabrielle wrote:Dear Gabrielle, I am so glad you escaped the psycho's clutches. I have had the same experience. It does leave you with a permanent chill. For those who want to read about this terrible disorder, do go find The Mask Of Sanity. You don't have to buy it. It is available in libraries or you can request that the local library get a copy. Another excellent book is People of the Lie. I never bought any of this stuff. It is at the library. Take care.
<quoted text>
I agree with you Richard, and I have some things to add to this inside look at a sociopath. It is scary to read about them, but even scarier if someone you know might be one of them. I refer to a man who is no longer my friend, a person who I believe with all my heart raped one of my friends and of course, would never admit it. He does not have a conscience, spends money like no tomorrow, and tries to buy favors from people. He does not care about others whatsoever and even resorted to stalking me over the Internet. Thankfully, I called the police and that matter was resolved within a matter of weeks. I had not heard of the term sociopath until after I knew this man for several years. While I do not know all of the horrific details of the Robison case, I have read Mardi's book and hope to do more research as time permits. I do believe Scolaro either was the killer, or perhaps paid someone to do it. All of the motives were there. I do not believe all sociopaths are intelligent, but I do believe they are cunning and manipulative. Just a little food for thought.
psychedelic survivor
United States
#418 Nov 7, 2008
Please don't take offense but I'm just curious about why some people are so focused on directions to the former location of Summerset? Except for forensic sound tests (if anybody ever does them) what is the purpose of figuring out this location in minute detail? Just curious.
Richard-Petoskey
Pellston, MI
#424 Nov 7, 2008
The case #7471 Complaint # 78-785-86 for the Michigan State Police was labled as in the "inactive file " in April 1974- one year after Joe Scolaro took his own life. No living Michigan State Police investigator believes that anyone other than Joseph Scolaro carried out the crime. Whether he came to the cottage to kill or to talk--once he began firing he acted impulsively and brutally to make sure the deed was thoroughly done. NO ONE could live to identify him and he made sure with extra brutal acts against Dick and his beloved daughter.
All else that followed is not considered pertinent to his and his only involvement in this crime. Those things will forever make conjecture--but most crimies are not "cut and dried" clean of such oddities
ROEBERT grave sight is close by ROBISONS!!!!!
"To answer the question on being a Mason.....I am almost certain Richard was. It's been a long time and I am 74. An uncle of ours was a 32nd degree Mason, and I know he got my oldest brother into the Masons and I do believe, Richard, also." - Richard Robison's cousin, Shirley, Topix, March 13, 2010
psychedelic survivor
Powder Springs, GA
#437 Nov 10, 2008
Mardi L wrote:Hi Mardi,
I do have to take issue with one thing, tho. There are still mysteries connected to this case, or else why would it have all of us in its grip 40 years later? I’d like to know if Scolaro acted alone. I’d like to know why the crime was so brutal. I’d like to know whether or not Roebert was a real person and if he was, why he never surfaced. I’d like to know if Bloxom’s story was true, what was in the case he tossed into the furnace in Alabama, and how Shirley’s luggage tag ended up in an abandoned car. Finally, I’d like to know if Scolaro acted alone. If he didn’t, someone is real good at keeping a secret.
Btw, I’ll be at Schulers Books in Okemos on Wednesday Nov. 12 at 7 and at the Grosse Point Borders on Nov. 21 from noon to 1. Come by and say hi and we can talk more about the case. The evening of Nov. 21 I’m speaking to the Michigan Supreme Court’s book club and hopefully will have more to report on the case after that. A few of the judges are quite incensed that this case is still officially considered unsolved.
I'm pleased yet surprised that some judges are still wanting this case to be solved. And incensed is a good, strong word. Hope they tackle it. WHY ARE WE ALL SO OBSESSED WITH THIS CASE?? Because our intuition won't leave us alone. We ALL know there's something majorly hinky here. It ISN'T settled by a long shot. So many things about it, which you just listed, are so weird. Thanks for checking back with us. What's your new book about?
psychedelic survivor
Powder Springs, GA
#438 Nov 10, 2008
Richard-Petoskey wrote:What do you mean, "Roebert grave sight is close by Robison's"? The newspapers at the time said that investigators could find NOBODY in Michigan with a name spelled like that. Thanks
The case #7471 Complaint # 78-785-86 for the Michigan State Police was labled as in the "inactive file " in April 1974- one year after Joe Scolaro took his own life. No living Michigan State Police investigator believes that anyone other than Joseph Scolaro carried out the crime. Whether he came to the cottage to kill or to talk--once he began firing he acted impulsively and brutally to make sure the deed was thoroughly done. NO ONE could live to identify him and he made sure with extra brutal acts against Dick and his beloved daughter.
All else that followed is not considered pertinent to his and his only involvement in this crime. Those things will forever make conjecture--but most crimies are not "cut and dried" clean of such oddities
ROEBERT grave sight is close by ROBISONS!!!!!
psychedelic survivor
Powder Springs, GA
#439 Nov 10, 2008
Paul wrote:Paul, I think your thoughts and observations are particularly astute. I've been thinking about this: Since we now know that Richard Robison was really attracted to "cultural" organizations I wonder if any investigators inquired with the local cultural centers such as Cranbrook, Artists' Club (Scarab Club?) downtown, Detroit Symphony Orchestra, etc to see if he had any dealings with them. If this could be uncovered it could help to flesh out who he was, what he offered, promised etc. and maybe tell more about Scolaro, The Superior Table, investors etc. I really do think that more information still lies in the Birmingham, Bloomfield Hills and Grosse Pointe communities.
<quoted text>Legitimate question, and no offense Taken. I want to know the cabin location in order to help with a couple of nagging questions concerning the witness 1/4 mile away hearing two mens voices shouting at the time of the shots, where the witnesses cabin was located, as well as the layout of the roads and cabins in 1968. I would actually like to plot all of this on a plat map from 1968 for my own reference. I feel that two men heard shouting 1/4 mile away helps prove the theory that more than one person was involved. This is why I think a modern day crime scene re-creation and analysis would be able to help determine if more than one person was involved the shooting.
A side note, I was researching Howard Hughes since there was mention of Robison contacting him for money, and found it interesting that Hughes "right hand man" named ROBERT Maheu died earlier this year...
psychedelic survivor
Powder Springs, GA
#440 Nov 10, 2008
KJJ wrote:Hi! Of COURSE, we are aware that some very important people are probably reading this very hot topix. And they should divulge what they know anonymously. Not on this link but to the authorities. Now is the time.
To Rick-Petoskey: Will you explain to all of us what you meant by stating: "Roebert grave sight is close by Robisons?
Also, I agree with Ken and Paul that there was more than one shooter on the scene. I have no doubt that Scolaro was up to no good. However, I feel that this was a pre-planned professional hit, that Scolaro led the shooters (maybe even under protest) to the remote cabin. A higher up, perhaps Howard Hughes or the Mafioso, had enough dirt on Scolaro to force him or threaten him into partaking in the crime spree. Even though I am now reading Mask of Sanity, I still see Scolaro as a gutless, spineless, wonder who was aware of but could not personally carry out this heinous crime. And, don't you all wonder sometimes who all might be reading this link? As in, someone who knows something? Perhaps a former secretary? Lastly, thank you Mardi for the nice update and please stay with us.
psychedelic survivor
Powder Springs, GA
#441 Nov 10, 2008
Regarding the use of Scolaro's guns, I'm convinced they, rather than some untraceable ones, were used because he was under the pressure of time. Yes, either the untraceables never showed up or he knew he had to get these murders done right quick. He apparently DID know how to permanently hide them afterwards.
Pete
Westland, MI
#450 Nov 13, 2008
The 'Roebert' gravesite has an upright granite monument with 'Roebert' on the face. It appears to be a husband and wife with the names: Donald C. 1911-1996 on the left of the base at the bottom and Martha R. 1913-1996 at the right.
The Robison gravesite also has a standup granite monument with just 'Robison' on the face. In front of the monument are the grave markers in two rows of three with Richard(elder), Shirley, and Richard in the top row and Randy, Susan, and Gary in the second row.
The proximity of these two gravesites has to be more then just a coincidence! The different twists, turns, and unanswered questions of this case would even be difficult to make up if this was a novel instead of a real story.
psychedelic survivor
Athens, GA
#453 Nov 15, 2008
Tim wrote:Retaliation? What once may have been a threat is now long past. And besides, there has always been safety in anonymity. I hope those of you reading who are still "keeping things" will bring this crime to a close with your long held information. Thanks.
<quoted text>
<BR>
Hi Psychedelic-It's been stated before that locals up in Good Hart may know some things, but aren't talking and don't plan to talk. I agree with you that if there ever was a time to talk, it is NOW. It's been so long that one should not be worried of 'retaliation'. I am thinking that this may be the reason that no one has ever really come forward with anything substantial over the past 40 years, if they DO know anything. I also can't help to think this may be why certain officials were reluctant to charge Scolaro in the first place.
psychedelic survivor
Athens, GA
#454 Nov 15, 2008
To Tim, Ken, Pete, Paul, KJJ and please forgive, any others I have missed - Please let me tell you, as one who read the newspapers first hand in 68, the papers stated that police could find NO ONE in Michigan with a last name spelling of ROEBERT. Secondly, the name was hand scratched onto the medal found with Mr. Robison and a picture of it was printed in the papers in Detroit. It was scratched on, not engraved. I think there is significance in this because it means that whoever made it did not want it traced to a store and then back to him. It is, to me, absolutely impossible to think it is a coincidence that there is a Roebert grave marker within sight of the Robisons. This has to be unravelled. I wonder why these two Roebert folks died in the same year,'96? It is important to look into their family background (with TOTAL discretion!). Thanks again.
Ken
Little Rock, AR
#457 Nov 16, 2008
Strange - Donald dies 8/15/96 after his wife Martha died 7/13/96. Social Security Death Index says they lived in Warren. Why choose a cemetery in Beverly Hills? East and west siders tend to stay east and west in life and in death. There are large cemeteries northeast of Warren that would have been more logical. I doubt they came from the Birmingham area and ended up in Warren. Their SS numbers were issued in Michigan, so where were they in 1968?
Given that Richard was adopted, Donald would have been 15 and Martha 13 when Richard was born. That's a little close in age to be a father figure but not too much to be a birth father. Martha at 13 could have been a birth mother but that's really young for back then. Donald obviously buried Martha there and then followed. It would be interesting to know who his birth father was.
You could make a call to the Oakland County Clerk's office or the Macomb County Clerk's office to see if they have a micro film of a death certificate and ask what they show as cause of death.
Only about 9 "Roebert" names show up in the entire SS Death Index country wide.
Where is their marker relative to Robison? In the same circle I'm assuming but left or right when looking at Robison from the road?
Finally, why are we assuming that Roebert was his last name? I wouldn't sign something that intimate with my last name (to my chosen......) The membership flow chart shows Richard as Mr. Richard. Why not Mr. Roebert as in Roebert XXXXXX? If I remember right all of the names except one looked like they were first names, just some with Mr. in front.
psychedelic survivor
Florence, SC
#459 Nov 17, 2008
Tim wrote:Tim, I recall the scratched image of "Roebert" on the medal photo printed in the paper. I do not recall all those other words but I am assuming those who say they are on it. The size of the medal appeared to be about 1 and 1/2 " across at most. It is not a huge unusual medal. The writing is on the back side so I don't know whether the front has a St. Christopher picture or not etc. The words are VERY scratchy looking. Why don't you look up microfiche at the Detroit papers and get the photo? I wondered why Mardi didn't print it in the picture section of her book. As I've said before, the police and reporters put a very big emphasis on this item at the time. Thanks
Hey Psychedelic- I too think that the message was scratched on the St.Christopher's medal because if it was engraved it might have been traced back to who gave it to Robison. I haven't seen the pic of it from the newspapers, but was wondering if you have. How large was it? It must have been big enough to scratch all the words on the back (seemed kind of lengthy of a message, especially if it was scratched on in an uneven scrawl) 'Richard - to my chosen son and heir, God Bless You - Roebert.' The medal I own is hardly big enough to even scratch my name on it, and most other St.Christophers I have seen are usually the same size whether round or oval.
I wonder if this Roebert did not live in Michigan at the time of the murders or even for quite a time after. This would explain why it was stated no one in Michigan could be found with that name during initial investigations. But it also might say that this Roebert had nothing to do with Robison. The fact that this Roebert, who would have been around the right age to be a 'father figure' or mentor to Dick is buried near the Robisons is just very strange and ironic. Also the fact that this Roebert had residences in both Michigan AND Florida (maybe a winter retreat, meaning he must have had some money)is very ironic as well...
Thanks to all
psychedelic survivor
United States
#462 Nov 18, 2008
Richard - Petoskey wrote:Doesn't this prosecutor have a known history? Isn't it possible to examine all the cases that came to him - for the nature of the cases, the evidence and the verdicts? I imagine this prosecutor's style could be a matter of record?
Paul, this is what I am trying to discern. HE was an ex-Chief Prosecutor of Oakland County in 1940's. Left there 1945 to go to Nuremberg Trials as a special trial attorney and then became a Judge of the Military Courts of Germany and later US Attorney General for Bavaria. Came home and moved to Harbor Springs 1954-ran for Emmet County
Prosecutor in Nov 1956 and was in office Jan. 1957-Feb 1958 before resigning and working for federal government. Came back in Oct 1968 and since NO ONE WANTED THE JOB ran on a write - in campaign and won. He was 67 years old. One man office with only a part-time clerk. Very conservative person in a very conservative environment of northern Michigan. HOW DO WE FIND OUT HIS ACTUAL COURTROOM EXPERIENCES?? Was his "prosecutorial discretion posture" one of only going to trial with direct/hard evidence??
Most murder cases are based on "circumstantial" and that is what MSP used to build up a case against Scolaro. MSP SYNOPSIS lays it out step by step!!!
Let's all concentrate on the REAL MYSTERY of this case--why no arrest and no trial?????
psychedelic survivor
Florence, SC
#464 Nov 19, 2008
Tim wrote:Tim, How do you know it was Noggle who came up with the cable-across-the-road idea? Thanks
To Richard&Psychedelic: Noggle was also the one who came up with the hokey idea that Monnie Bliss strung a wire cable across M119 in a plan to kill his son Norman, then murdered the Robisons because they witnessed him doing this. This is based on his 'knowledge' of Monnie attempting this a month before with no success.
I wonder if Noggle might have been under pressure from some of the 'investors' of the Superior Table (friends of this 'Roebert' perhaps) to not go after Scolaro. So instead he turned to 'suggesting' that Monnie was involved. After all, the Bliss family wouldn't come after Noggle in retaliation like the shady figures involved with Robison and Scolaro WOULD. This is perhaps why there was never an arrest or a trial.
Just my theory...
psychedelic survivor
Utica, KY
#478 Nov 22, 2008
Ken wrote:Ken, I have always been skeptical about the theory that the rape was staged. The rape and the bludgeoning of the young girl go hand in hand. They are related. And I never thought they were done for staging. I think Scolaro hired criminals to do these killings and those individuals took the opportunity to do the "stuff" they really enjoyed.
>>>MSP SYNOPSIS lays it out step by step!!!<<<
You lost me with this - maybe just low blood sugar but don't recall what the MSP Synopsis is.
Does anyone besides me not buy the "staged" rape theory? What would be the point. You've killed 6 people so you stage a rape and suddenly they don't think it's you? If they think you might be capable of killing 6 people why wouldn't they also think you raped one of them. If you're staging a rape, you don't need to stick the knife in the floor. You cut the clothing and put the knife in your pocket. If you're in the midst of a rape, you stick the knife in the floor in case you need to use it again and need quick access. I don't want to get graphic here but if he pulled down a girdle with her face down, he would quickly discover that it physically hinders the actual rape, get out the knife and cut it. I think she was raped either by Scolaro just for one more sign of contempt or by his accomplish just for the sake of doing it. I just don't understand why she was the only one left out in the living room.
It would also be interesting to know if it looked like anyone came in the lake side door and did any shooting from that direction. Somewhere I read the order and location in which each of them were shot.
EDITOR'S NOTE:
Edwards’ own book, “Metamorphosis of a Criminal, the True Life Story of Ed Edwards” (image above), is a written puzzle that intricately links him to various murders through clues hidden in the stories he tells. He was a ritualistic killer who killed to kill, indiscriminately targeting men, women, couples and children. In “discovery documents,” Edwards was throughout in anonymous letters, phone calls and emails directing the case like the conductor of the orchestra. John A Cameron said: “He (Edwards) was an informant for an FBI agent for years, telling on his own murders to set innocent people up. (He’d) get to know personal information about you and then kill someone close and steer the evidence to you. Rumors usually came from anonymous letters and phone calls to the press and police, steering the evidence to others by the killer himself.”
psychedelic survivor
Utica, KY
#479 Nov 22, 2008
Paul wrote:Hi Paul. I believe that the way to get modern forensics applied to this case is by hammering the media. This fascinating and troubling case should be very interesting to the 20/20s, 48 Hours Mysterys and such out there. We just have to get their attention. Anybody who has the time and desire can write up a summary of the case, include some photos and stress the fact that the people of Michigan are still wrangling with this 40 years after the fact. As soon as some show takes it on you can be assured a thorough, modern investigation will be done. Thanks again.
I couldn't agree more with the last 3 posts, I do not want to bad-mouth the current investigative abilities or commitment of the Emmet County Sheriff, I am sure they are using everything they have at their disposal, but I will always feel that if this were handled by a federal or private investigative unit with more testing and crime scene re-creation techniques, and of course money and time, they might be able to make something out of the evidence that we are all racking our brains over. Anyone have any ideas how to get a 40 year old cold case to a "higher up" investigative team?
Sterns and Flis did an awsome job with their investigation and did link Scolaro to the murders, but the case was never officially closed. I believe closing the case through modern investigation techniques is possible, and could possibly link other (possibly living) accomplices to the crime.
psychedelic survivor
Utica, KY
#480 Nov 22, 2008
I left out a pretty important sentence. The summary and photos should be sent to any and all producers who work on these shows! They will have many story analysts who will read the submissions and make recommendations to those producers.
psychedelic survivor
Phenix City, AL
#484 Nov 23, 2008
Paul wrote:Paul, I can think of no other reason why Scolaro's clothes were wet. He must have been washing off blood which means I am wrong in imagining he was only there to watch. I still believe others were actual shooters perhaps in addition to S. But I can easily imagine S. helping to pile the bodies in the hallway.
<quoted text>Al Koski either bought 8mm home movies from Robison family members, or borrowed the footage and transfered it to VHS or DVD. I don't know if it will ever end up becoming available in some form to the public or not, but a TV investigative program might be able to use some of it for an investigation if it would be useful.
I also feel that Scolaro had plenty of time to drive north and back in 11 hours, especially if the murders were pre-planned, or he went north to only direct hired criminals to the cabin, and return home. Does anyone know if I-75 was completed or not in June of 1968?
I do remember reading that Lora Lee did not confirm the time that Joe returned home on the night of the murders, I think Scolaro also stated that his wife and kids were asleep when he got home that night. He had plenty of time. Why were his clothes wet and in the laundry room the next morning? was he washing off evidence?
In regards to calling up Cold Case Files, I would like to add that from personal experience I can tell you that no show will pay any attention to just a phone call unless it comes from someone pretty spectacular, like the accused or a victim or victim's relative. You really have to get the attention of these people with something physically impressive, like a riveting synopsis accompanied by photos. With this case it is imperative to explain the long-standing passionate interest in has for Michigan residents.
psychedelic survivor
Phenix City, AL
#485 Nov 23, 2008
Pete wrote:Hi Pete, I hear your frustration. They say that hairs are worthless unless then hair stem happens to be on the sample. Supposedly there is no DNA in the hair strand itself. Still, I'm with you on being skeptical that nothing could be determined. I read somewhere that MSP said the evidence had been "compromised". I take that to mean contaminated. Still, whosever DNA IS on the hair CAN be separated out. If I am wrong on this, anybody, please correct me.
If they can get good DNA results from the hair of Copernicus who died in 1543 why couldn't they do the same with the pubic hair that was collected from the crime scene in 1968??? What the hell?
EDITOR'S NOTE (EXCERPTED FROM HOUR DETROIT 2008 ARTICLE):
In 2003, evidence was brought out of storage and underwent DNA analysis. There were hopes that a match could be made with a known suspect or someone cataloged in national criminal databases. However, the evidence was too degraded to yield any conclusive results.
John Norman Collins, the infamous “Co-ed Killer,” is thought to be responsible for brutally torturing and murdering as many as 15 young women in Michigan and California between 1967 and 1969. His spree stopped after he raised the suspicions of his uncle, David Leik, a state police corporal. Collins used Leik’s Ypsilanti home to kill 18-year-old Karen Sue Beineman, a student at Eastern Michigan University, while Leik was vacationing in Canada.
Coincidentally, Collins and the Robisons’ oldest son, Richie, attended EMU together. There were rumors the two had even belonged to the same fraternity. Police investigating the Robison murders kept their eyes on Collins, but eventually eliminated him as a suspect in their case.
The most persistent advocate of a possible Collins connection is Tom Mair of Traverse City. He knew the Robisons and has long been active in various crime-stopper programs. He insists Collins met Richie Robison during a week of orientation at EMU — a scenario police rejected, but which true-crime author Mardi Link now says is very likely, considering the small size of the student group. Mair suggests Collins may have visited the cottage before the murders. But, Link says, “There’s no proof anywhere of that.”
Mair also hints that Leik, who later commanded the state police post in Petoskey, may have impeded any subsequent investigation of ties between his nephew and the Robisons. “That really doesn’t make sense,” Link argues. “Why would Leik turn in Collins for Beineman’s murder, but then obstruct a look into any possible involvement with the Robisons?”
A few years ago, a CNN report featuring Mair gave the dubious Collins theory a certain legitimacy. It also gained more traction with the publication in 2004 of Judith Guest’s fictionalized account of the murders, The Tarnished Eye. Guest, a former Royal Oak schoolteacher best known for her breakout novel, Ordinary People, took tremendous liberties with the lives of some of the principal characters, going so far as to describe an affair between Collins and Shirley Robison.
Veteran crime reporter Al Koski, who covered both the Collins and Robison cases, is galled by this kind of creative license. He even confronted Guest during a chance meeting in Oscoda, Mich., where the Minnesota-based novelist maintains a summer cottage. “She told me, ‘It’s fiction, Al.’ But this is how the public starts believing such bull----. They get their ‘facts’ from people like her and Mair, and it just muddies the water.”
Mair maintains he’s not necessarily saying Collins committed the Robison murders, only that authorities shouldn’t be so quick to reject the possibility. “They’ve never even interviewed him about it,” he says. Collins, who changed his name to John Chapman in prison, is now 62 and serving a life sentence in Marquette. He steadfastly maintains his innocence. (In fact, four years ago, DNA evidence cleared Collins of one of the murders long attributed to him.) In his last public interview, he admitted it was bothersome being called a serial killer. “It’s bad enough being convicted of one thing,” he said in 1988, “without being labeled for other things you haven’t done.”psychedelic survivor
Utica, KY
#492 Nov 29, 2008
Barbara wrote:Hi Barbara, The problem is, the Robison hairs are NOT whole, according to the police. They say the stems are missing. And, as of now, it is said that the hair shaft itself can give up no information. On the other hand, no one knows what the future holds and I'm pretty sure that future technology WILL be able to tell which specific person was the donor of any particular hair. So it's a good thing everybody is paying attention to this crime because it means all this evidence will be preserved.
<quoted text>
Or what about those trace skin cells that were on JonBenet Ramsey's clothes where they got the DNA that finally exonerated her family members? A whole pubic hair should be easier to extract something from ... then again, it was sitting around fermenting for a month before the bodies were found.
psychedelic survivor
Jacksonville, FL
#493 Nov 30, 2008
Mardi L wrote:Hi Mardi, You know, even if the rape was staged the perpetrator would probably have left hairs of his own simply because of all the physical contact with Mrs. Robison. Do you know whether MSP collected miscellaneous hairs at the crime scene, perhaps put into a bundle, perhaps separately labeled, but in any event, recovered? Thanks
Some conjecture about recent questions posted here and then some new ideas from my latest travels and events:
Re: Scolaro’s wet clothes. Yes, he could have been wet from washing away evidence, but it was also raining that day and late into the night in the Detroit area. Scolaro told detectives it was raining so hard that water had leaked inside the Robison family home and, knowing they were up at their cottage, he had gone over to clean up water that had leaked into their basement. Investigation photos of their Delores St. home show no sign of water damage anywhere. So, he was outside in the rain that night; if he wasn’t securing the Robison house, what was he doing?
Re: Hairs collected from Shirley’s body. No hair stem, no DNA, but the report from the criminologist did state that the hairs were consistent with Shirley’s own hair. So, they were probably hers, not the killer’s. Adding to the theory that the rape was staged.
Re: Roebert. Dick’s sister told detectives that she was not sure that Dick even knew that he was adopted. In the late 1920s when he was born, adoption was not something that was spoken of, even among family members in private. Its very possible he never even knew, which would make his belief that “Roebert” was his birthfather impossible. My own theory is that Roebert was made up by Scolaro as a money man to cover his own embezzlement from the business and never existed. If he was a real person and on the up and up, why did he never surface after the murders? If he was a real person and involved in the murders, why can no one find any trail of him, anywhere?
After many book events attended by very involved and interested audiences with great discussions afterward, here are some reasons I now believe Scolaro acted alone: No alibi, the guns were his, the bloody footprint was his shoe size, he was a skilled marksman, he had been to the cottage, etc., but consider also the drag marks from the bodies. If there were two or more people, those bodies would have been carried. They weren’t, they were dragged as if one person was trying to hide a crime scene for as long as possible. And, remember all those phone calls between Dick and Joe on the morning of the murder? The cottage was small – the rest of the family would have heard those phone calls and it’s hard to believe that Dick and Joe weren’t arguing. Dick was probably yelling at the phone receiver, firing Joe, and telling him he was going to call the police. So, the arguments that necessitated (in Scolaro’s mind) the murder of Dick and all the witnesses wouldn’t have had to take place in person. Those phone calls were enough to give Scolaro motive for killing Dick even if he would have left the family alive.
And finally, after 40-plus years, no rumor, not even a glimpse of an accomplice outside the halfway house thugs. I think if someone had helped Joe, they would have told someone eventually and that person would have told someone and so on, until there was at least a rumor of another culpable party. There is nothing like that. I think Scolaro was too self-involved, sneaky, and yes, evil, to want to share his embezzlement and the heinous acts that followed, with anyone.
psychedelic survivor
Jacksonville, FL
#502 Dec 6, 2008
Richard - Petoskey wrote:Hi Richard, I've noticed that your feeling is that the prosecutor's failure to go to trial is the real issue left here. The prosecutor is gone now and of course so are many others but....some of his co-workers must still be alive and certainly the wives and friends of his co-workers are alive. I totally believe that these people were once engaged in conversation about the prosecutor's decision. They heard about what his feelings were and I am asking them now to come forward and reveal what they know. Please tell us all why Scolaro didn't go to trial up north in 68-69 etc. Thank you.
The exact weapons - a .25 caliber Beretta 950B JetFire that he purchased a mate with on the same day and was used to kill the Robisons he ditched.
He gave police his second Beretta (the one later he used to kill himself with (3/8/73)and they matched the class characterists to that type of model gun.
(He tried to lie and say he gave that second gun--the murder weapon to Dick Robison in Feb -68 but his own wife told officers that both Beretta were in their bedroom drawers as laate as mid-June )
Then a year later he slipped and revealed he had purchased two .22 caliber AR-7 ARMALITE rifles at the same time from his brother-in-law. The cops had beenlooking for a type of .22 weapon for over a year but he never said a word un til he thought they had caught him (he was arrested on another charge and while in custody spilled the beans).
Once again he told authorities he had given this time both of the .22's away. They got one back from a friend and tested it. They then knew that an AR-7 .22 was what they were looking for. He said that the other AR-7 was given back to his brother-=in-law--a licensed gun dealer who kep immaculate records--HIS OWN brother-=inplaw said NO he did not--and that Joe was a pathological liar!!
He also took them to a firing range where he and Joe had fired that missing rifle and they found 20 .22 shells. They matched 5 of those shells to the 4 "evidence" shells at the cabin.
HE WAS NAILED DEAD ON at that point--MSP detectives wrote up all their evidence and the next month December 17, 1969 gave it to the Emmet County Prosercutor Donald C. Noggle!!! nothing ever happened???????
He disposed of both murder weapons--had 27 days then to devise his various stories and he also began to obfuscate the case over and over with his "plausible lies"--he was very very intelligent!
No arrest-no indictment for murder for next two full years??? WHY?
That, as I keep trying to say, is the REAL MYSTERY to this case?????????
psychedelic survivor
Jacksonville, FL
#508 Dec 7, 2008
Well, maybe you all know a lot more about these things than I do but oh my god, people have been indicted and then convicted on so much less than the matching shells. Matching shells from TWO guns, no less.
psychedelic survivor
United States
#519 Dec 11, 2008
Richard - Petoskey wrote:Thank you for giving us specific history on what happened in the office of the prosecutor. I agree with you, the fact that a trial did not go forward is confounding and disturbing.
On December 17, 1969 the MSP detectives in charge of the investigation of the Robison murder criminal case drove their Cae Evidence Report and Summary up to Petoskey to personally present the one-man office Prosecutor of Emmet County, Donald Noggle their 15 month long case work. Before doing so they had consulted with the Oakland County prosecutor's office and were assured there was sufficient evidence to proceed with an arrest and indictment.
On January 12, 1970, Attorney General Frank Kelley met with Noggle in Noggle's office and on Wednesday January 14, 1970 Noggle issued a press release stating in his prosecutorial opinion and concurred in by Frank Kelley "there was not sufficient evidence to establish a prima facie case at this time".
In August of 1969 Noggle had told the Detroit News he did not want to prosecute this case, he had not been in office when it happened and knew little about it and would request the Attorney General's office to handle any trial work.
In January 1970, neither office wanted to????
WHY?
psychedelic survivor
Utica, KY
#529 Dec 19, 2008
Ken wrote:Richard, I had no idea you had committed so much personal time to this matter. I am glad you recovered some items. This very unusual case deserves a book that is different from the "true accounts" approach. It would be extremely interesting to see this from the standpoint of what happens in a community. Your mention of the many myriads of unrelated trash and rumors that the State Police had to sift through - that is interesting stuff. I wish a renowned novelist or semi-nonfiction writer would take this on and show us what happens in a community burdened with such an event as the Robison tragedy. I'm thinking of a Joan Didion type. I am sure one of America's top writers would take this on, if only they knew about it.
<quoted text>
Tim:
Lots 1 and 2 should still be vacant because of their belonging to the people on the highway behind them. 3,4 and 5 were bought by someone who owned non lake front lots at the base of the bluff, giving them lake frontage now. 6 and 7 are owned by another person. Seger owns a set of lots starting with lot 8 of this block and then roughly the next 3 in the next block to the north.
I have to say it bothers me that the family wanted to have the cabin demolished and yet the contractor took "Mementos" like the sign and pieces of paneling with bullet holes in it.
Yes, it is macabre that some items were "salvaged", yet, now that time has passed we are lucky to have the Summerset sign in a museum of sorts, because that helps to keep this unsolved case alive.
psychedelic survivor
Utica, KY
#540 Dec 22, 2008
Ken wrote:Hi Ken, Regarding the placement (location) of the bodies, I remember always reading that police think the boys were on their way to a bedroom closet where a gun was kept. Do you remember that?
The wife still lives in the same house that she did 40 years ago. No idea about the son.
There IS a Bliss built cabin in Blisswood that is for rent by the week during the peak season and weekends or midweek early Spring and in the Fall. It looks very much like Summerset except for no loft area. The reviews on it all seem to be very positive.
It may even be the one where the owners heard the gun fire. They stated it was either 8 or 9pm. At 5:30 to 6:30 at that time of the year you would have a hard time seeing into the cabin from the brightness of the outside. At our place you'd have to get right up to the glass to see if someone was inside (I still do it when I'm looking for helpers on a project, who tend to disappear when they sense you are coming). Once it is late dusk to dark, it's like you are on stage if you are inside with the lights on. That's why 8-9 sounds more realistic. Remember, Scolaro says he was home by 11 (wife was sleeping and has no knowledge of when he got home). He would pick 11 to claim he was home because he knows you can't be in Good Hart at 8 when he knows he actually was there, and home in Birmingham by 11. But you can be if you leave Good Hart at 6, which would not be a good alibi.
Richard, why do you feel it was earlier in the day? Did the neighbors add anything like "it was around 8 or 9 because we had finished dinner" or "we were just going to go for an icecream before the store closed"....anything like that?
Gary was found in his parent's bedroom, on his back, as though he had been facing the doorway and fell backwards. If he was shot in the back, probably running down the hallway, how did he end up there and in that position? What about Ritchie, who never made it into the bedroom and the rest of them? I still can't find where I read about where each of them was when it started. I know it said Ritchie and Gary were playing cards at the table. For some reason I think Shirley was in the chair on the opposite side of the fireplace from Dick and Randy was on the sofa but until I find the article again, I'm not positive about that.
As for the sign, I personally wouldn't want the museum to have it if it was my family. I would either want it back to keep myself since before the killings it was a place that they loved. I would at least want the choice of having it, destroying it or letting the museum keep it.(This is not a criticism, just my observation.)
psychedelic survivor
Powder Springs, GA
#548 Dec 23, 2008
Ken wrote:Ken, I think all that was necessary to ensure that the family members were all in place would have been for Scolaro to tell Robison "Make sure the boys aren't off wandering somewhere because you'll really be pressed for time to make your flight. The pilot has to leave at such and such a time". I borrowed Mardi's book and returned it so I also have no reference material. Was the first shot, the one killing Robison through the window, fired on the lake side of the house? That would have been the location where the shooter would have been least visible to neighbors, right? I am certain the first shots threw the other family members into screaming and pandemonium but I would like to know why none got out of the house. Doesn't this cabin have two or three exits? Thanks
Based on where the bodies were found, Ritchie and Gary were heading for their parents' bedroom. Ritchie never made it in the doorway. Apparently the two of them were at the dining table playing cards when it started. It's the rest of them that I remember reading about where they were in the living room at the time it started. It was based on blood location and drag marks.
I'm still trying to picture the sequence. It looks like from where the shooter got Robison, he would not have been able to see the boys at the table. He would have had to be shooting straight into the window to get them, in which case he wouldn't have been able to get Robison.
So, if one shooter is far enough out from the window to not be seen and far enough to the right of the window to see Robison and have the ejected shells land in front of the bathroom window on the ground, it had to take a few seconds to get from that point to the inside of the cabin. And, he had to either know or assume that the door would not be locked.
I still suspect 2 shooters. But, I don't know if the original plan was to kill all of them, just Dick or whoever happened to be there at the time. I suspect it was the 8or 9pm time frame also because that time of day, waiting for someone to contact them regarding a plane would account for them being all dressed up and waiting in one place. Still how would Scolaro have been sure that they would all be there? Was that part just opportunity? You'd think 3 boys could very easily have been away from inside the cabin, down by the lake for instance, though I would have expected the daughter to be with her parents inside at that time.
I picture it being light enough to not use headlights going down the bluff, since that might have been noticed, especially after making the turn back to the north toward Summerset, but dark enough that the inside of the cabin has lights on making it impossible to see outside unless you were close to a window. I'm assuming that they stopped short of the cabin area and walked the rest of the way so that they would not be seen approaching the cabin.
The next question is then did everyone run toward Robison to see what had happened to him or did they know what was happening, even if they didn't understand it and start for the bedroom at that time? Or, a combination of the two.
The boys really had no chance of getting to the bedroom, getting out their 22 rifle and loading it. I doubt if they kept it loaded or even had the shells close by. At our place there are numerous windows but one window could have gotten the whole family at night. The gun rack is closer but wide open to the living room and the shells were always locked in the drawer under the rack since they were never meant for protection. Protection from WHAT? would have been our question.
Another question - if the black guy went to Toledo to buy a car, why isn't there a record of a purchase in his name somewhere? Why isn't there a registration in Ohio or one in Michigan if he drove it back here and registered it here?
EDITOR'S NOTE:psychedelic survivor
The lakeside door was padlocked from the outside, per Mardi Link in her book, "When Evil Came to Good Hart."
Phenix City, AL
#557 Dec 26, 2008
Richard-Petoskey wrote:Hi Richard, Thanks for again adding details that we don't all know about. You seem to have extraordinary personal knowledge about psychopaths. May I ask how you came by it? Thanks
Richard Robison was a quirky guy, an artist, a conservative business man. Dick may have had some personality probelms of his own-most likely a bit of narcissism that Scolaro played up to--BUT-forensic accounting of his books showed (1960-1968)absolutely no malfeasance until a month after Scolaro was put on payroll-December 1965. From then on a steady increase in chicanery.
Scolaro used his incredible chameleon like charm to woo Dick into trusting him, so by Jan-Feb of 1968 he had Dick gone from the office most of time. Dick was not easy to work for, but not a crook, not a dishonest business man and very very protective of his Delta Faucet account. It has been said of "sociopaths" that they are so good they almost always fool their mothers and their shrinks--if they have one!!
Lie after lie after lie with just a hint of plausibility caused people who deal with them to become disorganized--WE are not born or trained to deal with this kind of "brain wiring" and consequent actions. These are truly "morally evil" people who have no clue they are sick.
DO NOT CROSS them or you will pay heavily--it cost Dick his and his family's life.
One set of bloody footprints in cabin/one owner of .25 model Beretta/one owner of .22 Armalite/ one motive/the opportunity and the means to carry out the crime. All persons named in his alibis refuted what he told authorities. No alibi/owned the guns/owned the rare ammo/had the 12 hours of time/knowledge of where remote cabin was located/skilled marksman/incapable of remorse or guilt/a known pathological liar/cheat/con-artist/spendthrift/etc etc etc.
Narcissistic-Sociopaths work alone--do not want anypone to know their true selves. Besides, he owed everyone--NO ONE owed him!!!!!!
Bankrupted the two thriving businesses he bought for nothing from relatives in one year--did not evenown his house by the tme he pulled the trigger with dozens of people after him for their scammed $$$$$ in March of 1973.
Smart enough to not leave behind fingerprints-DUH!!!! So why not arrested-tried and sent away??
psychedelic survivor
Jacksonville, FL
#569 Jan 4, 2009
I've been stewing for a few months knowing I won't be able to make the meeting in May (I live in GA). Is there any way this meeting can be recorded, taped, broadcast, copied, preserved, notated, filmed, WHATEVER so that we can all experience it? Thanks for putting up with me and Happy New Year to one and all.
Richard-Petoskey
Pellston, MI
#571 Jan 7, 2009
The meeting in May (Monday May 18, 2009 in Petoskey at 7 pm at the Carnegie Center of the Public Library) will be a public forum where ideas, memopries,thoughts concerning this historical (40 year old "inactive file " but still "open cold case of murder" will be presented from both panel and audience members. It has intrigued the people of Michigan since the crime was discovered 27 days after it was committed.
As most people know, within 48 hours of any crime is the crucial time period for investigators in trying to soolve a case and part of this crime's possible premeditated nature was the ability to cover it up for a lengthy period of time.
psychedelic survivor
Athens, GA
#607 Jan 29, 2009
Richard-Petoskey wrote:I believe someone wrote to say that the actual original prosecutor will be present at the library meeting in May. This person is still alive? I am surprised. Also, Al Koski is really quite elderly and as i understand, not in great health. Does anyone know whether he has made provisions to have the book published should he pass unexpectedly? I would like to suggest this to him, so Al, is you're listening...we respect your knowledge and don't want the information and your work lost to history.
There are a number of us looking into the possibility that certain prosecutorial officials will invoke the "use of exceptional means" to close the case. It has been done in other states when the police suspect has died before trial.
Just read the family letters of the victims asking why they want the cased closed and why that will bring some solace to them and you will come to understand why this has been a 38 year tavesty of justice.
The old prosecutor (Noggle) cannot be condemned because he had the right of "Prosecutorial Discretion" and did nothing but invoke that 38 years ago. He had that right-prosecutors do it every day deciding who or who will not be arrested and indicted.
PROSECUTORS are the most powerful force in our judicial system and most people are not really aware of that. They, and they alone, decide who is arrested and then to court!!
Prosecutor Noggle was given erroneous information 38 years ago based on rumor and gossip and not fact. The suspect then also used his cunning devious intellect to constantly and continuously obfuscate the truth of the case even fooling the media into reporting the falsehoods he was telling as if it were the truth.
The murder weapon and rare boxes of bullets were never given to the victim as first told to officials by the real perp. The victim was not a crooked-devious businessman as the perp lead people to believe--it was him who did the illegal acts and when he was found out-he eliminated his accuser, fouled the investigative waters with plausible lie after plausible lio and even manufactured found evidence by the police to make matter more confusing. He owned both guns used, was not located for 12 hours that day and failed 3 polygraphs!!!!
He managed to get away with this for @ 1580+ days after committing the second worst mass murder in Michigan history (the first was in 1927-Bath, MI)
When the prosecutorial officials of the victim's and the perp's county residence decided to finally act, after waiting for Emmet County, the perp decided he could not face the truth in court.
psychedelic survivor
Phenix City, AL
#613 Feb 3, 2009
Ken wrote:I believe Scolaro called the Robisons ostensibly to let them know they would be picked up for the airport at a certain time and that all the kids had to be in the house, not roaming the woods, and all had to be ready to leave. That way they would all be in one place. As impulsive as he may have been I don't think Scolaro would have wanted to go chasing through the woods at night trying to pop off a run away survivor. But even more, I think he wanted to make the "job" concise and doable for the killer, whether that was himself or others.
Why are we giving to credence to Bloxum's (Leavenworth) story? True, he has the actual conditions of the murder itself wrong but he has accurately described Scolaro (could have seen a newspaper photo); the robin egg blue T-Bird; and, the briefcase that Scolaro doesn't remember but everyone else does, which was never found. The other guy (at work, can't remember name) confirmed going to Flint to a KFC to meet with someone and Bloxum going along. He also confirmed being in the Good Hart area in June and that he was not above taking on a hit job for the right price, though he says he didn't do the Robisons. Bloxum also describes contents of the envelope that match what was later described as being what was found in Chicago???
Sorry, I meant to say "Why AREN'T we giving any credence.......". If it happened the way it is described in Dead End, I can see one person being able to kill all 6 but could you go there counting on all 6 being in one room waiting to be shot? Personally, I don't think the door would have been open at that time of day and the temperature it would have been. Though, it probably wasn't locked. How could Joe have known they wouldn't bolt in different directions, including the lake side door once the shooting started. I suppose he could have intended just to shoot Dick but took advantage of the setting once he got there but intending to kill all 6 from the start you'd think he would have wanted help.
EDITOR'S NOTE:
The lakeside door was padlocked from the outside, per Mardi Link in her book, "When Evil Came to Good Hart."psychedelic survivor
Phenix City, AL
#614 Feb 3, 2009
Richard-Petoskey wrote:Dear Richard,
Michigan State Police questioned BLOXUM extensively and when he tried to describe details not know to anyone but the police and the killer he failed on everyone of them. HE was out to buy himself time off from prison but with "made-up details!!!(he even had the type of weapons used wrong!!!)
AL Koski is very very sick and no one knows if he has ever actually written a manuscript or not. He says yes but has been saying that for 39 years.
When Scolaro put his own "spin" on the truth of the case AL was one of the reporters who printed it and helped to confuse public.
Scolaro's "spin " on the case made Dick Robison out to be the "bad guy" business man. ABSOLUTELY no truth to that. MSP evidence shows one person --Joe Scolaro-as the doer of misdeeds at RCR & Associates.
A "naracissitic-sociopath " who was very very intelligent and made up the "untruthful facts" of the case fooling almost everyone but the two MSP detectives, Dick Smith (orginal Emmet COunty prosecutor on the case -WHO will be at FORUM in MAY) and Dick Zink, the Emmet County Sheriff at the time of the incident.
All four of these officials tried to get Don Noggle (2nd Emmet prosecutor) to do what was right--he refused citing his "prosecutorial discretion" !!!
Thus, 40 years later, all the mid-truths, half-truths, "rural legends" , rumors, and cockeyed theories etc etc etc.
JUSTICE DENIED!!! The TRUTH DENIED!!!
I know you have particularly strong feelings about what happened in this case and you probably have most of it pegged but I want to say that any guy who demands that a female employee stand in the middle of his office, semi-clothed,42 while he ogles them, is not quite on the up-and-up. There is more underneath. This behavior is 1) humiliating, 2) inappropriate, 3) controlling, 4) disrespectful, 5) indifferent to the other person's feelings. This side of Robison probably resonated with the psychopathic side of Scolaro but Robison didn't even know it.
EDITOR'S NOTE (EXCERPTED FROM HOUR DETROIT JUNE 2008 ARTICLE):
The Robisons could have stepped right out of The Donna Reed Show. Richard C. “Dick” Robison was the handsome, cultured 42-year-old breadwinner. He operated a small ad agency, R.C. Robison & Associates, and published an arts magazine called Impresario out of his one-story office building at 28081 Southfield Rd., in Southfield. He enjoyed attending the theater with Shirley, his stylish and pretty wife of 20 years, painting the occasional watercolor, and flying his private plane. The churchgoing couple didn’t smoke, drink, or gamble, and had no known enemies.psychedelic survivor
The children were bright and mannerly. Richie was a 19-year-old student at Eastern Michigan University. Gary, 17, attended Southfield-Lathrup High School and played in a garage band. Randy, 12, was friends with Tom Mair, who lived a couple of doors down from the Robisons’ brick ranch. “We did normal things together — ride bikes, work on our stamp collections,” says Mair, today a movie-house manager in Traverse City. “They were just a typical suburban family.” Susie, a quiet little girl with big blue eyes, dreamed of having a pony [note that Mardi Link was informed by family members that Susan went by her given name, not the nickname "Susie"].
[...]
Even if Scolaro was determined to kill the Robisons, skeptics say it would have been nearly impossible to do it within an 11-hour time frame. And arranging a contract killing on such short notice was improbable.
Dick Robison’s own secrets began to emerge after his murder. A little spadework revealed that he’d had several affairs. He also had the habit of inviting a secretary into his office after work, then asking her to lift her skirt while he admired her legs. No sex was involved, but sometimes the ogling and fondling lasted as long as an hour.
Worse, the solid citizen dubbed by newspapers as “the man without a vice” had swindled clients out of as much as $50,000 over a three-year period, billing them for ads he either didn’t run or didn’t pay for. He’d also published full-page airline ads without permission in his own magazine, making it appear more successful than it was. The choice of ads was telling, as Robison saw Impresario as being a marketing tool for his quixotic scheme to create an international network of giant computerized warehouses; each would be based at an airport and feature a fly-in cultural center.
Jacksonville, FL
#627 Feb 10, 2009
Hi R.Petosky,
This is the first I've heard of your group hiring a quality forensic profiler. I'm sure a lot of us besides myself are grateful to you and look forward to reading the conclusions he comes to. Will you be publishing it in its original form here? Thanks
psychedelic survivor
Memphis, TN
#633 Feb 13, 2009
If the results of the profiling will not be published but rather donated to the library, how can I access them? I live in GA. I would have to drive up there and read the results at the library? Thanks.
psychedelic survivor
United States
#640 Feb 22, 2009
Ken wrote:Wow, can't help you there but that sure is fascinating. I wouldn't doubt that the room was used during Prohibition. Sounds like someone could make it into a going attraction now.
Off topic a little but part of the local lore.
What was the name of the dance club in Harbor Springs back in the 1960's. I think it was a brown log cabin construction but it had a secret underground room. The main club was upstairs but you went to the basement and then into a small boiler room area. The back of it opened up to a tunnel with steam pipes that took you under the parking area into a underground ballroom and bar looking area that was supposed to be from the prohibition time.
Today I'm writing to echo another commentator who said that this Robison forum is about the most sensible and serious one out there. Ditto, and now that I'm trying to get some information on the Oakland County Child Killings I'm running into the real nuts. Can't seem to find a serious thread without crazies on it. Anybody know of some decent sources? Thanks
EDITOR'S NOTE:
Edwards started killing in Michigan to tie together his murders in California and Michigan. The sites of the Oakland County Child Killings (OCCK) 1976-1977 circle the area (the Woodwood Corridor) where the Robison family lived (Lathrup Village) and are buried (Acacia Park Cemetery, off Beverly Road, at the intersection of Bates Street).
psychedelic survivor
United States
#642 Feb 26, 2009
Dear Family Member, I want you to know personally, from me to you, that many complete strangers have taken your fsmily's tragedy to heart. I am one and the events of 1968 have never left my memories although I've grown up and out and lived a whole life. I want you to know that not all interested parties are crazies or people obsessed with tragedy.
I do not want to meet you. There are plenty of us who would never want to intrude on your life, "get to meet you" as though you are some celebrity etc. Maybe you should go to the meeting under an assumed name. I speak for many others who hope that you were able to find some peace and even some happiness after what happened.
The thing is we're OUTRAGED at what happened because it busted up our sense of peace, our sense of humanity, our sense of justice, our sense of community and our sense of safety. We could not IMAGINE why this act was perpetrated and we have grieved with you. I wish you peace. I'm glad that this forum exists and that Mardi wrote her book. I'm glad that the library meeting is happening even though I won't be there.
We want closure too although I think that's expecting too much. We DO EXPECT JUSTICE! Take care.
psychdelic survivor
United States
#645 Feb 26, 2009
Ken wrote:Under no circumstances can I see a judge refusing to get you a copy at least of your precious personal family films, if not the originals.
I have to agree with "Family Member" about the Summerset sign. It wasn't meant to be taken without their permission and put on display. The same applies to any parts of walls or floors that were not retained by the police for evidence but were kept as souvenirs. I believe I made this point earlier.
As for the films, you should be able to sue for their return. There may be issues with the amount of time that he has had them but if you started asking for their return immediately, the court should demand that he return them to your family.
Family Member, I know we all have unique and personal ideas about God and the afterlife. Nevertheless, I'm convinced that Richard, Shirley and all the children have long since passed the stage of pain and have moved on to some other purposes in the universe. I don't believe for a second that they remain in the moments of pain which occured in 1968.
I too have lost people tragically. That is what I believe about them. Thanks, P.S.
EDITOR'S NOTE:
408-character Zodiac cipher was decoded in 1969, as follows, except the the last 18 characters, which were not decoded.
"I like killing people because it is so much fun it is more fun than killing wild game in the forest because man is the most dangerous animal of all to kill something gives me the most thrilling experience it is even better than getting your rocks off with a girl the best part of it is that when I die I will be reborn in paradise and all the (people) I have killed will become my slaves I will not give you my name because you will try to slow down or stop my collecting of slaves for my afterlife."
Rick
United States
#654 Mar 13, 2009
All,
Here is a link to a Free Press article published in 1993. Doesn't tell anything most folks on this board don't already know, and they've left out a few pictures (I have the original article ine a file somewhere or other). Still, an interesting read, mostly from the point of view of Lloyd Stearns, lead investigator.
http://www.goodhartstore.com/Good_Hart_General_Store,_Events_and_News_files/Robinson%20Murders%20Free%20Press%201993.pdf
I'll give credit to the Good Hart Store for posting this on their site. It's a topic not spoken of much in that exact area for obvious reasons, and the Store was gracious in posting it for those who are interested in reading.
psychedelic survivor
Phenix City, AL
#655 Mar 14, 2009
Thanks Rick. This article is helpful because it shows succinctly how law enforcement was thinking at the time. Noticed that police assumed the two boys were playing cards at a table in the living room but that playing cards were found near their bodies in the bedroom. I sure don't think they would hold them in their hands and run with them. Whoever did this must have sprinkled the cards near them for some reason. And the police somehow figure Susan was playing on the floor near her parents and was shot early in the crime. So why was she bludgeoned at the end of the crime? If she was still alive why wouldn't the shooter just shoot again? Was he out of bullets by then?
psychedelic survivor
United States
#669 Mar 30, 2009
Funny - when the Robisons were killed Ted Nugent played at just about every high school dance in metro Detroit. I know. I was there and we didn't ever dream he'd ever be anything but local.
Newposter
United States
#671 Mar 30, 2009
I've read Mardi's book and about every post on this website. It is hard not to be convinced that Scolaro was the perp. However, I do pose the question:
What if Scolaro didn't do it?
psychedelic survivor
Athens, GA
#679 Apr 4, 2009
paula wrote:No, but I do remember a unified groan whenever somebody asked who was going to be playing at a certain high school dance - because the naswer was always the same. Some of the warm up bands were pretty good tho - remember Train?
I remember when he played at Southfield-Lathrup. It was a guitar battle - him and Frank marino of Mahogany Rush. Anyone else see that?
Laura
Indianapolis, IN
#697 Apr 9, 2009
I have spoken to the lead detective of this case (Lloyd Stearns)and he is convinced that Scolaro acted alone. After investigating this case with his partner John Flis, and putting in an incredible amount of time interviewing all the key players these lead detectives came up with this conclusion. These detectives are privy to inside information that we know nothing about. So, instead of all this bickering back and forth in this forum as to whether Scolaro acted alone or had a partner, I am going to defer to the experts who actually investigated this case and know the truth.
psychedelic survivor
United States
#701 Apr 10, 2009
Allan wrote:Allan, What is the relevance should Richard be in some way related to Joe Scolaro?
Richard-Petosky
Everyone is waiting.........
Allan
AOL
#704 Apr 11, 2009
AS I said:Sue
"...There is at least one contributor to this board who actually knew Mr. Scolaro."
Redford, MI
#705 Apr 11, 2009
Richard apparently also notified the same asachitose.com site folks of Scolaro's death. The following is on the same website as Allan cited, page:
http://asachitose.com/page16.htm
"Joe Scolaro - Manuel Morse Chitose 56/59 passed away in 1973. Joe has been on our look for list for a number of years. We recently received a message from Rick Wiles at wiles.ra.t@petoskeyschools.org who informed us of his death. He would like to communicate with some of the guys who served with him."
Sue
Redford, MI
#706 Apr 11, 2009
One more from the following site. Richard, are you a relative of Scolaro? This would IMHO explain your apparent rabidly emotional feelings about this man.
http://armysecurityagency.blogspot.com/2008/10/new-blog-for-army-security-agency.html
"wiles.ra.t said...
Looking for ASA 12th Chitose vets -there in 1957-1959.
Did you know Joe Scolaro-E4 "Ditty Bopper" from Michigan??
wiles.ra.t@petoskeyschools.org
November 21, 2008 12:49 PM"
newposter
United States
#708 Apr 12, 2009
Allan's point is a valid one. If Mr. Wiles is soliciting information about Mr. Scolaro under false pretenses, that is unethical and deceitful, and calls into question his entire "forum". Unless there is something I missed, Mr. Wiles is not law enforcement and thus not entitled to the "undercover" role he fancies himself in.
If Mr. Wiles is indeed a relation (or married to a relation), and there was "bad blood" between family members (esp. if they were taken in one the check kiting schemes, or worse), he perhaps is intent on seeking a particular outcome, more for the humiliation of the Scolaro family than to avenge the Robisons, or out of any sense of real justice.
Mr. Wiles own comments seem to imply the former rather than the latter.
It has been interesting reading all of the comments here. Let's remember in all of our discourse that there are both Robison and Scolaro relations are alive today and be respectful of both of their families.
Allan
AOL
#709 Apr 13, 2009
Yes those family all have relatives and their children who are alive and yet Wiles continues all this without consideration to them.
Richard Wiles is promoting ...Richard Wiles!
His event is on the Petosky library site and promotes his "White paper":
Quote from the site:
"Wiles has built his own case and will share his white paper SUMMERSET:
And you are correct. The "Headliners" at this library thing are Wiles, who is promoting himself,
Ms. Link who is promoting a book that is for sale, and an old retired prosecutor who obviously failed to bring closure to this tragedy.
So, it's self promotion and continued skewing of present day family names.
And also..........where have Richard's relatives been during all this? They must really be delighted. For that matter.....where is Richard?
Ask him: wiles.ra.t@petoskeyschools.org
United States
#715 Apr 13, 2009
Allan wrote:So he knew Scolaro and you know him?
AS I said:
"...There is at least one contributor to this board who actually knew Mr. Scolaro."
psychedelic survivor
United States
#719 Apr 13, 2009
Rog wrote:Hold on a minute, Rog. For years this one thread about this one crime has been unique in that it hasn't attracted the Jonbeneyer types who do nothing all day but rage and insult. We have been looking at the evidence and discussing it like adults for a long time. I really resent your hormonal overtures. Maybe you think Richard has an axe to grind. Maybe you don't think he should use the thread. But keep your shirt on buddy. Hold off on the histrionics. It's a real turn off. Write like you're in English class and write like a grownup.
RICHARD:
You are not a police investigator!! You and a couple others have apparently had a personal obsession for years with trying to keep this awful event constantly in a spotlight, Now you are advertising your WHITE PAPER??? on a world wide stage and referring people to hotels.
Further commenting on your remarks, unlike police Internet investigators you did give your true identity!!! I repeat, YOU GAVE YOUR TRUE IDENTITY!
First name!! Last Name!! Email address, and blamed your questions on your own family!!!
Your wife's family! How brilliant and thoughtful!
It's over Richard. Ms Link has written her book and it's over.
Leave those poor families alone. Mr Scolaro's wife, two sons, and their families are blameless and have lived with this for over 40 years. The Robison relatives as well. By your actions you are helping to cause untold trauma to people you have never met.
This is your true identity and email address as you published it:
"I am doing a genealogy of my wife's family - Joseph Scolaro B 5/1/1938 in Oakland County Michigan died there in 3/8/1973 He served ASA12th Field Station -Chitose japan in 1958-1959 Discharged in 7/14/1959. Would like to talk with anyone who served with Joe.
If anyone remembers Joe Scolaro would you please contact Richard Wiles
wiles.ra.t@petoskeyschools.org
It's over!
psychedelic survivor
United States
#729 Apr 15, 2009
Rog wrote::"Growing up with it all " is a sorry legacy left to all those family members by the killer. They all have to live with it just the way family members have to survive a suicide. It won't EVER go away and people discussing it here or anywhere else doesn't add up to a hill of beans.
As long as those obsessed are comfortable with the harm it may do to the innocent I guess it's all ok. "Talking" on the Internet.
But think of them though. The sons, their families, sons and/or daughters. The Robison tragedy is over and done. The original victims and the guilty. Most likely all Gone.
Now think of those children growing up with it all. For the first years it is understandably inexcapablel but it never stops.
And now the children's children hearing about some guy holding a "forum", advertising a "White Paper", encouraging attendance, advertising hotel rates, and running around the Internet claiming to be a relative. Using the name they were born with. Their name.
How would you explain all this to the children....? By telling them that because of someone they never knew, they have been given a life sentence?
Talk if you must, keep studying the same old evedence, saying the same old things, but consider the children. One day you may run into them. One day one of them may look you in the eyes..........at a "forum". Then what....?
psychedelic survivor
United States
#730 Apr 15, 2009
Rog wrote:I guarantee you that the last thing the survivors of the killer want is for anyone to "reach out to them". The most healthy thing for them is for the outside world to totally leave them out of this. It's not their doing.
Mardi
Thank you for your comments. They are well taken and reveal purpose tempered with compassion for the family of the victims. Bless you for that.
I think my question goes a little toward the families of the others mentioned. I am wondering if you interviewed or spoke with the Scolaro family members? The two sons and their families, children and relatives were more in my thoughts. I mean no criticism. Would just like to know.
I would appreciate your response, but I suspect if asked they probably refused.
Richard:
You are correct in saying all of the families involved are victims. When you pose as one of them on the internet you further victimize them in a way and even your own family whom I suspect you did not consult before naming them.
In my opinion you are also correct regarding closure. However one only needs to read and consider the nature and heat of your words to suspect that for you, there will be never be closure and that your event in Petosky will be stage and springboard for more of it all. You will continue.
Finally if in fact your target was guilty, he did in fact escape " prison for his crime in record time". He died. He received a death sentence and died. I believe all involved here should consider some form of outreach to the innocent members of families of the accused.
Temper you words Richard and more will be comfortable with you opinions
"Some day the world would hear of Ed Edwards, master criminal." - p.38, Metamorphosis of a Criminal
psychedelic survivor
Florence, SC
#776 Apr 28, 2009
Allan wrote:And what is with this entity Rog, badgering people to identify themselves by name, as if that proves anything?
My answer is yes. I have said it before. No forums, people walking around coming up with scandalous comments about both families, no advertising of hotel rates, white papers for sale. No more. Let it go. It's over. close this board down and stop. Let the families alone.
Period!!!
So, okay, ROG, my name is Fred Cunningham and I live at 395 Cherry Grove lane, Mesquita, GA, 30030. Now what?
....then again, I COULD be Marita Haffenberger, 12290 Crawford St, Marietta, GA 30010.....
what's the point? And by the way, you other posters out there, please don't be bullied into identifying yourselves. Anonymity is one of the best safest things about these forums. Do not endanger yourselves because of this dimwit.
And, ROG, I don't care what your name is.
psychedelic survivor
Florence, SC
#833 May 5, 2009
James wrote:Hi, I was 17 the summer it happened. I went pout of town that summer but when I got back, and before I started college in Sept. the papers were full of this case. That's the only reason why I learned of it. A picture of the Roebert medal was printed and it is etched in my mind. That's how I know it was hand etched. So while it is often pointed out that there was a newspaper strike it needs to be clarified that there was plenty of news coverage and people were stunned.
In Three Parts
In Three or Four parts:
First, in the interview with Scolaro the detective refers to their interview with him on June 23. That would have been two days before everyone says the Robisons were murdered. Just a mistake? Sure, a printed official, never corrected mistake. One of many the detectives and police made and have always refused to admit.
The rest of that interview goes on for pages and pages. It wanders through topics and subjects so unrelated that it is nearly impossible to follow. It is also rife with errors and statements by the detectives that have no basis and just not very intelligent. These guys were not rocket scientists!!
That family was wiped out in June of 1968. Detectives Sterns and Flis bumbled and stumbled for 4 months short of 5 years before Joe Scolaro's life ended. No solid proof. No charges. Just accusations from police who were being hounded to pin the whole thing on someone.
Then a few media people golmmed onto it. All making themselves out to be oracles. The fact is that when these murders happened, the Detroit Newspapers were all on strike. There were no newspapers to read. So in the Detroit area you either heard about it on the radio, or one of the THREE Detroit TV stations. Radio and TV people started all the rumours, and the police and especially the Emmett County sheriff's and prosecutors were running around willy nilly making like they knew what they were doing and thereby making sure that 41 years later nothing would be solved!
James, unless this is your "new" name you are new to this thread. We've all been talking about it for some time. Where did you get your info and why haven't you posted until now? Thanks
psychedelic survivor
Florence, SC
#835 May 5, 2009
Rick wrote:Yes, to put the value of the money in perspective, a person could buy a home in Grosse Pointe in '68 for 50K. 100K would have bought an extremely gracius mansion.
Here's some intriguing information from interviews conducted by the MSP. According to the police reports, in September of 1968, Stearns and Flis interviewed businessman Ellis Jeffers. He had hired Walter Mullenhagen into his company, who knew Richard Robison. In Feb of '68, Robison hosted Jeffers and Mullenhagen at his office to discuss his cultural center ideas. Scolaro was there, too. Jeffers was already operating a similar business. Robison discussed that he had access to $50M available for the venture, with another $50M if needed later (no word who the financier was, but the money was "coming from St. Louis"). They met a total of three times. Robison later indicated to Mullenhagen he didn't want Jeffers involved in the venture. Feeling about to be pushed out, Jeffers fires Mullenhagen in March of '68. Mullenhagen wants to proceed on his own with the venture anyhow, under threat of legal action by Jeffers. Jeffers owed Mullenhagen $32K he'd invested while employed and Jeffers couldn't pay it all off at once. Mullenhagen (whom Jeffers thought was wealthy) sues for the money, indicating he's short of funds. Jeffers suspected Mullenhagen gave a large amount of money in the form of an investment to Robison. To me, this story sounds like a lot of bad blood between the three men; lots of money at stake, alliances gone bad, etc. I don't know that the police ever ultimately thought these two gentlemen were involved.
On the topic of Harry Ford, he indicated Mr. Robison approached him in February of '68 and asked for a $50K advance on their Delta Faucet account, that he was funding a business deal. July and August, checks were found from Delta to RCR & Assoc. for over $30K. After Robison's death, Ford bought his airplane.
Later, Masco Corp's owner, Richard Manoogian, had an audit of payments to RCR. It was determined that the Delta account was overcharged by over $28K. Manoogian suspected Ford was 'in on' the overcharges between Delta and RCR since Ford had to reconcile the billings and disbursements and should know how much was to be accurately paid. Ford is questioned a number of times, and tailed by police for some length of time.
I can't remember if this info was in Ms. Link's book, so sorry if it's redundant. I just always thought the business dealings between RCR, Mullenhagen and Jeffers... and also Harry Ford bore out more investigation. To put these dollar figures into perspective, according to dollartimes.com, $50,000 in 1968 is worth $310,000 in 2009 dollars. This was a lot of money these men were throwing around.
psychedelic survivor
Florence, SC
#836 May 5, 2009
James wrote:
Yes, as I asked:
Was Harry Ford an accomplice in the Delta Faucet missing money? Masco thought so.
Walt Mullenhagen was a player in this little drama too. Big Time!!!.
Is he the same Walt Mullenhagen who is with Citizens Bank in Saginaw?
Never mind whether it's in someone's book.
Back to the questions:
WHERE ARE ALL THE ORIGINAL PHONE RECORDS?
Did those "brilliant" law men look at some of them, include references to them in the evidence file and NOT include the actual records?
Who called whom and when they they call........?
Is Walt Mullenhagen in fact still alive? What happened to Harry Ford? Jeffers?
Ask HUGH Mullenhagen - BLK Group, llc. He know lots!!
And all the others mentioned above.
I don't really want your name but who ARE you and where have you been? You are bringing up new inormation and I'm really surprised there is any!
psychedelic survivor
Florence, SC
#838 May 5, 2009
James wrote:
The information is not new; it's just been buried! In some instances not even intentinally, but by people who have personal agendas. White Papers, Books for sale, detectives who blundered always with their pensions in mind, prosecutors mindful of elections and promotions that could be affected, etc.
Most of them just latched on to the popular theory that one man was 100 percent responsible. All SOS (Stuck On Scolaro).Look at the evidence. Question the old boxes of material that lay withered in a library. What about Robison himself? His alledged eccentricities, possible affairs, the secretary who moved to Cleveland and gave birth there. Was Robison, as his sister says and some birth records may show... adopted? Elaine says he didn't know of the adoption. Why didn't she tell him? Was Roebert his father?
Scolaro was probably involved, but was he alone in it. Did he really drive up there and back and do it himself? Did he have help? Who is this guy Walt Mullenhagen anyway. Still alive? Has anyone tried to find him, talk with him?
The banker involve in those phone calls on the day of the murders. Was there money in the account at the end of the day? Those checks the Robison stopped early on and then released late in the day. Who were they written to? Were there calls to those people(companies) that day? What was said? Who called them?
Is Harry Ford still alive....Did anyone talk with him before they wrote books or just read the stuff in those old boxes?
WHERE ARE THE ORIGINAL AND C O M P L E T E PHONE RECORDS OF EVERYONE who talked with anyone for at least a three month period before the day of?
Are they all in the old boxes ( NOT ) if not...why not? Did those "expert" law enforcement people just selectively refer to a few calls in reports and neglect to retain all the records? Did anyone writing books speak with Frank Kelly, Brooks, or ask to look into Oakland county records? WAS THERE EVER THE RUMORED INDICTMENT OR ARREST PENDING FOR CONSPIRACY?
Ask Hugh Mullenhagen about Walt Mullenhaagen. Ask relatives of all the players..........Then.......... the answers will flow
Mardi Link has a blog on which she put up the original typed list of The Superior Table. Not only are various members listed, such as Mr. Richard, Mr. Joseph, Mr. Thomas etc, but each has a secretary's name listed. Was any effort ever made to identify "Pam", "Gail" etc?
James
AOL
#840 May 5, 2009
Bottom Page One Left side: Walt Mullenhagen
Hello........?
http://www.tcsunriserotary.org/IMupload%5Cnewsletter%5C20070117_newsletter.pdf
Ms Link:
You are very familiar with the archives. Are all the telephone records there....?
Ken
Little Rock, AR
#841 May 5, 2009
>>Walt Mullenhagen<<
http://www.tcsunriserotary.org/IMupload%5Cnewsletter%5C20090218_newsletter.pdf
He looks a little young.
K.
cyber
Florence, SC
#842 May 7, 2009
Ken wrote:
>>>>Mardi Link has a blog on which she put up the original typed list of The Superior Table. Not only are various members listed, such as Mr. Richard, Mr. Joseph, Mr. Thomas etc, but each has a secretary's name listed. Was any effort ever made to identify "Pam", "Gail" etc?<<<<
I think Mardi said that some effort had been made but with no luck. I might have pointed out before that all of the names are "First" names, which would make "Mr. Roebert" his first name if the pattern was the same for him, which you would think it would be.
That document could have been made up by Scolaro and put into Richard's desk to confuse things or sent to Richard at some time for the same purpose.
It's interesting that if we speculate that Joe conceived the idea and got people to play various parts, he played it out second hand without him being directly involved (the way it appears) rather than HE being the one that found the source of the funding and brought them directly to Richard. Richard seems to act like Joe isn't directly involved, unless that part was staged too. There's so much of what went on that was clandestine that there are still large gaps in the picture decades later. The gaps are just enough to give you a hint of doubt.
If Joe orchestrated all of this, you wonder why he couldn't have put the same effort and skills into something successful of his own.
I was an up and coming artist in the Detroit community before leaving the area in 1973. Having been on the inside I know that the art community is or was pretty small and most everybody knew, or knew of, everybody else. I have a hunch that Robison had dealings and conversations with various art venues, galleries, clubs and artists. I'm sure that there are people still alive who knew him or whose parents knew him. It would be good to get feedback from those folks on his personality and on what was discussed regarding his plans, ideas, intentions, funding etc.
Mardi L
Since: Jan 08
Traverse City, MI
#843 May 7, 2009
James wrote:
Ms Link:
You are very familiar with the archives. Are all the telephone records there....?
Well, I spent some time looking through the MSP file and while the actual telephone records from the phone company are not there, some phone evidence is. I've compiled it and posted it on my blog. You can see it here. www.mardilink.typepad.com. I put it there instead of here for two reasons, 1) it's long, and 2) perhaps people who might not be reading this forum will have a chance to decipher the info and come up with something we all may have missed.
Ken
Little Rock, AR
#849 May 7, 2009
I'm going to try this again since my last post never appeared here.
If one call starts at 9:31 and lasts 5 minutes, that equals 9:36. But, the record shows another call to Scolaro starts at 9:36 and lasts 25 minutes. Why is there no time in between? If the second calls runs 25 minutes, it isn't over until 10:01, how can there be a third call at 9:45?
James
AOL
#850 May 7, 2009
OK. Exactly what I thought.
Unless I am missing the point those "brilliant investigators" never looked beyond their noses.
Consider this:
The MSP file says all phone evidence was checked and MICHIGAN BELL TELEPHONE SECURITY OFFICE supplied officers with a list of all phone calls that had been made from the business, ROBISON'S home, the cottage and the JOSEPH SCOLARO home. This list is for May, June and part of July. They also run checks on all phone numbers that had been called from any of these locations...... information appears to be significant, however all information is being maintained by Second District DB, etc. etc.
AND......
"It is no longer possible to obtain a record of phone calls made from certain numbers in 1968 as all records are destroyed by the telephon company after six months."
So break it down. They looked at calls from May through June from Robison's company, Robison's home, the Cottage, and Scolaro's home. Terrific.
Like looking in the cookie jar to determine who took the cookies.
Where are the phone records? Not just May and June, and part of July, but for a complete year prior to the event, all during the time this thing could have been hatching.
The call by call billing records for all those above plus the same detailed records from the Bliss home, Harry Ford home and his Masco Office, all Mullenhagen numbers, all Jeffers numbers, all numbers of Robison's banker at National bank and his home, records from the motels where Robison stayed, the Up North Airport, the secretaries at Richard's company, the secretery and her husband in Cleveland and others.
Who called whom, when did they call, and why"
ALL THE ACTUAL DETAILED BILLING CALL BY CALL RECORDS!!!!
According to Ms. Link the The experts who fouled this up never got the actual records and were content with a list of calls from workers at Michigan Bell. And to top it off the billing records were destroyed 60 days later?
PLEASE!!!
Oh Yes The quote posted on Ms. Link's site is from an interview that is about 130 pages long. It is full of wandering irrevelant talking and questions.
They should have impounded every phone billing record of every known name ever remotely connected with Robison, examined each of them and called each person in for their own 130 page interview...but those geniuses were satisfied with a list...
So here we are 41 years later!!!!
psychedelic survivor
Florence, SC
#856 May 8, 2009
James wrote:Right, it is a catastrophe. Is there any sense at all in focusing on the phone records now? I.E. is there any chance at all of recovering them? It seems like a lost cause to me. Is there any avenue to run down?
Correction: Destroyed 6 Months later
A brilliant investigation indeed.
Florence, SC
#857 May 8, 2009
Richard wrote:My boyfriend and I drove up there in the spring of 1969. Let me tell you it took forever to get to Good Hart. We started out from Birmingham, a very close proximity to where Joe started out. At the time I decided that he would have had to drive like a speed demon for much of the way and have the good luck not to be caught by the state police. And he would have had to do the same thing driving back. We did drive on I 75 a lot of the way but it still took forever, especially when we had to get off the big roads as you approach the shoreline.
I don't believe I-75 was a direct link to northern Michigan back in the '60s - the trip may have taken a little longer than it does today. I want to say I-75 only went to Bay City - then you had to take other roads to connect to it near Grayling.<quoted text>
psychedelic survivor
Florence, SC
#860 May 8, 2009
James wrote:"Those detailed phone records exist", you say? I thought theat Bell T. claimed they destroy everything after 6 months? So why do you think they exist somewhere?
<quoted text>
More than a casastrophe, it is 41 years of bumbling and incompetancy fuled by amateurs running around with unfounded theories, and others protecting their pensions, careers, and positions that professionals should have held in the first place.
Imagine accepting a list of calls selected by a clerk at Michigan Bell as evidence of anything?
Those detailed phone records exist. Absolutely. And there are people who saw them for sure.
The way to the truth now though is paved with hard work and seeking out those who are still alive and subjecting them to well fashioned interviews by today's professional investigators.
Start at the top of the company that was feeding money to Robison/Scolaro.
RICHARD MANOOGIAN NOW 72 YEARS OLD: "Richard Manoogian joined Masco Corporation in 1958. He was elected chairman and chief executive director in 1964 and took over leadership of the company in 1968 when he was named president and chief executive officer."
He was Harry Ford's boss. Ford was likely in on the missing Delta Faucet (owned by Masco) money.
Then there is Mullenhagen, Jeffers, Employees at RRobison Assoc, Bliss people and relatives, the Cleveland Secretary and husband and the bank!
The shooting Range relative.
What about the banker who was always on the phone with Robison, even on the final day. What about the bank records. Remember it was that same bank that gave permission to destroy the cottage!!
Why did our "expert detectives and police" allow the cottage to be destroyed without taking "Hollywood quality", well lit, detailed video and/or film of every inch of the cottage inside...outside, above and below with narrators describing every possible fiber of everything there?. Why did they only take those low quality photos that basically show nothing. Was that by design too?
And then there were the radio reporters running around playing detective and grabbing evidence. PHOTOS, NOTES, LETTERS, FAMILY FILM, BUYING FILE CABENITS FILLED WITH ROBISON PAPERS, AND HUNDREDS OF OTHER MATERIAL..........ALL WHILE THE "EXPERT DETECTIVES" WERE IN THE PROCESS OF SECURING PENSIONS. THAT EVIDENCE STILL EXISTS! Why don't the present day Emmet County officials demand possession of all that material being held and secreted away by certain people they know. A court order would be nice. Duhh!
And finally all the amateurs with their theories. Each and every one took the easy road and pinned it all on Scolaro. He may have been involved. Maybe for sure, but there were probably others.
And is it at all conceivable that this could have happened without someone knowing anything at all?
More likely that there was an epidemic of LockJaw!
James
AOL
#861 May 8, 2009
More Thoughts:
It appears that most of the amateurs have deposited their information at the Petosky library including FOIA material and MSP reports. According to what I have read there is one glaring problem. This Aldred Koski person apparently has not donated anything. This board, Ms Link's book and newpaper articles all say that Koski has accumulated material from the very beginning in 1968 including the home movies of all the Robisons, now on DVD, and files full of information. A good deal of which may not be anywhere else.
Although I am told Mr. Koski has said for years he would be writing a book and has had a minimum of two publishers signed he has never written anything in book form.
It is also said that he has a sincere feeling for the fallen family and a strong wish to bring all to and end.
Ms. Link's book says that Koski is in his 80s and not in good health.
If he truly wants all this solved and has a feeling for the family, he needs to allow someone to copy everything he has and audio record what he knows so not to lose it.
Otherwise maybe a legal move could take possession of it all.
psychedelic survivor
Florence, SC
#866 May 9, 2009
James wrote:I believe the phone records are crucial. How else can one map out a play by play of who called whom, when? Is this not crucial to figuring out who was doing what? Who knew what, and when they knew it?
The phone records exist, but they are not needed. A new investigation by qualified professionals will solve this once and for all.
cyber
Florence, SC
#870 May 10, 2009
Ken wrote:The Delta rep. Oh there are so many people who could have shed light on what this crime was all about. As for how long Joe thought he could get away with it, I can tell you that people who live on the edge as he did do not think too far in advance. One of the classic symptoms of a sociopath is that are impulsive. Another is that they don't learn from mistakes. And another is that they are incapable of understanding that consequences will come of their actions.
Personally, I think the bank records and the Delta faucet records are the most important. Both point to motive. The phone calls increased as soon as the banker let Richard know his financial status. And, not coincidentally, so did the killings. They didn't die two weeks earlier, 2 month later, they died within 24 hours in what looks like a quick change of plans and an expedited version of what was originally planned.
I'm wondering what Joe's ultimate plan was. How long did he think he could go on with what he was doing financially before Richard found out? I can't think of any way to perpetually cover his tracks or make things right without Richard finding out. That leaves few options for Joe and would seem to indicate that what happened was his plan from the moment he started messing with the money.
I have no idea how many different ads Delta ran in how many different publications which would indicate how difficult it was for the Delta contact to keep track of. I can't believe that there were so many that he didn't have to keep books indicating what ad was placed where, at what cost and how that compared to previous billings for effectively the same thing. If you were the Dela rep you'd want to know how much bang you were getting for you buck and whether costs were going up, down or stable in order to decide if you still wanted to approve that expenditure. Did he stay with Delta after the over charges/payments came up or did they can him?
Ken
cyber
Florence, SC
#871 May 10, 2009
James wrote:Who is JC? Do you mean JS (Scolaro)? Please identify briefly some of these players, such as Manoogian, Magoogian etc. Who is this? Thanks very much.
On one point your are correct. The Delta Faucet records/history. So, where is Harry Ford? Or his wife or relatives? No one wants to answer that including Ms. Link. So are there any real law enforcement people out there or are they all still asleep?
The FIRST answer is QUESTION MR. MAGOOGIQAN!!!ON another point. What phone calls increased?
Calls between the RCR office and the cottage? There were a few of those that morning, but nowhere near the calls for months before then.
Not according to the 121 page interview on August 7, 1968. There were always tons and tons of calls between RR and JC. The so called experts questioned JC extensively.... "Why so many calls"?
Further, the financial problems were well known to RR before that date. He was responsible too. Face it, he knew about the Delta dealings. It was his account, He insisted that he handle it personally.
And on the day of the murders what did the banker tell him that caused him to stop payment on the outstanding checks.? That there was no deposit in the account?
So what was the conversation with the bank later that day about when RR told them to take the stop payments off? Did money go back into the account? If so where did it come from? 200K? And to whom were those checks written? Did they clear? Were they paid? Did they bounce? Did the creditors later call RCR Associates? Who did they talk to...what were they told?
And ten million other questions that were obviously never asked by the keystone cops.
Finally the proof of performance on those "ads" would be easy for RR or JC or both, with or without Harry Ford's cooperation, to falsify. Who says they were pint ads? They could have been television and or radio commercials over a long period of time.
Delta would have had to approve budgets in advance.
Radio and TV stations provide biling affidavits showing amounts due and when and what time commericals run. Print media provided billings that show dates and amounts. All very easy to doctor and send to the advertiser and extremely easy to to get through the maze with Ford as an inside man on the take.
Discussions about driving distances and times are fruitless. Question those still alive, their relatives, secretaries, the mistreses, and also those people who occupied the offices where JC was from '68-'73. Forget the old detectives, They've had 41 years. And forget the gossip forum. This can all be solved by professionals with today's methods.
Never mind distance and time. Follow the money and talk, even now to those who know something.
Rick
Van Nuys, CA
#872 May 10, 2009
cyber wrote:I think they're talking about Richard Manoogian, the then-owner of Masco Corporation, the company that owned Delta Faucet, the biggest and most lurative of Richard Robison and Associate's accounts. I'm also assuming JC is actually supposed to be JS.
<quoted text>Who is JC? Do you mean JS (Scolaro)? Please identify briefly some of these players, such as Manoogian, Magoogian etc. Who is this? Thanks very much.
psychedelic survivor
Powder Springs, GA
#874 May 11, 2009
James wrote:Who said no one wants to investigate what happened? That's ALL we're trying to do here, without getting arrested or causing undue hardship to innocent people. I applaud us.
Please read my postins # 850 -859 & 861 !!!!
All information and identification is there!
Of all information I have laid out all that anyone can do is question spelling from a sticky computer and wonder how long it takes to drive the distance. Read the postings. All are identified.
This is a prime reason the RR case has never been put to rest. Curiosity seekers, and amateurs posing as detectives and police.
I was hoping for an intelligent exchange of thoughts and ideas. Instead minds are still made up, and no wish to investigate what really happened. So I will post no more.
Ken
Redford, MI
#875 May 11, 2009
>>>>I was hoping for an intelligent exchange of thoughts and ideas. Instead mids are still made up, and no wish to investigate what really happened. So I will post no more.<<<<If only that were true. Geez, try a little CELEXA or at least some MIDOL. You obviously have some interesting information but one heck of a bad attitude, which, if I wanted, I could easily get from my wife.(g) You don't seem to be able to go very long between adding personal attacks in between your facts. Your data is interesting but your people skills leave a lot to be desired.
K.
AOL
#884 May 13, 2009
How absoitely dumb!!!!
Please note that the very sick person who totally disgraces all of your concern is not me.
That idiot's signature says "Livonia"..mine is AOL. I will be happy to trade email addresses with anyone on this board.
I have laid out facts; some have never been considered.
As for you KJJ, a great detective you are!!?? Terrific at noticing details!!!
Again, note my source is AOL, not Livonia.
That's another reason that this board needs to require registration...and a monitor.
Sick Sick Sick
Memphis, TN
#918 May 18, 2009
Goode1 wrote:Read the previous 900 plus quotes. there is a good deal of information on the location of the cabin site and surroundings.
I just attended the latest meeting with Mardi Link, Dick Smith and the high school teacher about the Robison murder. It was very interesting and I can't wait to read Mardi's book. I gave a signed copy of Dead End to my mother who just finished it and she felt Scolaro was involved, if not the one. Now we both feel that is really the only way it happened. He had motive, opportunity, means, etc. My mother asked if he had been to Sommerset before, and Mr. Smith said yes. It is such a sad piece of history. Does anyone know where the cabin once was? How to get there? I know it no longer exists, but I have been told there is a corner of the foundation remaining?...
EDITOR'S NOTE:
This was a slight name change for three posts, from "psychedelic survivor" to "psychedelic s."psychedelic s
Memphis, TN
#927 May 19, 2009
Ken wrote:I think this scenario is very very possible. And the adoption secret would have been Richard's Achilles heel.
<quoted text>
For the time period in which Richard would have been adopted it was very common for the adoptive parents to never tell the adoptee that they were adopted. It was thought that they would be better off this way. If not the child, the adoptive parents could pretend they were theirs and not have to deal with the adoption part. Invariably they found out either through papers they snooped in or something some family member slipped with. There is no mention about whether his siblings were also adopted.
I'm assuming that he was adopted at a young age and if that was before 5/28/45 he would now be able to get his birth family's identifying information but not in 1968. If he had living descendants they would also be able to get the info but not other relatives. Certainly the police could get a court order to examine the termination papers.
In a typical scenario, Richard would have found out he was adopted and maybe got some non identifying information from the same source. He starts looking privately, not wanting to hurt his parents or siblings, mentions it to Joe who picks up on it and says he knows somebody who knows somebody else and takes the info Richard has and builds on it, giving feed back to Richard a little at a time and expanding the scam as Richard reacts to it.
Geez, what a mind Joe must have had.
ken
psychedelic s
Memphis, TN
#928 May 19, 2009
Paul wrote:Now THAT'S incriminating.
Mardi wrote a few paragraphs about the forum last night on her rusty gun page, here are some quotes from MSP polygraph examiner Ed Goss that I found very interesting...
"I had Joe Scolaro hooked up to my machine for 7 1/2 hours!" said Goss. "I knew he was guilty, he knew he was guity, God knows he was guilty."
Goss told an eerie tale of the three polygraph examinations he conducted on Scolaro and of warning the suspect that if he didn't confess to the crime, he'd "blow his friggin' brains out" to escape the guilt that would eat at him. The wished for confession never came, but Goss said he told Scolaro that if he ever wanted to talk, Goss would make himself available, even after he retired. All Scolaro had to do was contact the Michigan State Police and ask for EJ's home number. In 1973, Scolaro did, and called EJ's home in Traverse City and talked to his wife. EJ was fishing. The day of the call was also the day of Scolaro's suicide.
Jacksonville, FL
#1007 Jun 2, 2009
Arthur wrote:Movie?
To Clarify
What's the difference...? That posting was a fraud. I know Al Koski. He did not post it!
Since only a few days after the tragedy Al Koski has been seriously and very personally affected by the death of the Robisons and has given a great deal of himself toward a solution, He would never use the language or the juvelile thought expressed. To Al, as it should be with everyonem, this is a very serious subject.
I am aquainted with Tom Mair.
His views are well thought out abd having known the family his has been a lifetime concern, but probably not interested in a gathering where opinions are of one conclusion.
Sterns and Flis...did not solve the case and apparently are not talking about it.
As for the building. It is still there. impresario was not an Art magazine, it was intended to be a cultural publication. In any case although there were only a couple of ads for Delta in it, people who read either one all buy faucets.
I have been serious in commenting here and sincerely wanted to know what was accomplished in Petosky.
Sorry if I have disturbed anyone, so this is my final posting.
Finally here are two more answers:
1. I was acquainted with Joe Scolaro
2. The upcoming movie will solve the case once and for all
Thank you and
Gone
EDITOR'S NOTE:
The above comment, #1007 on June 2, 2009, was the LAST POST by Edward Wayne Edwards as "psychedelic survivor."
On July 30, 2009, Edwards was arrested at his home in Cedar Heights Mobile Home Park in Louisville, Kentucky, for the 1980 murders of of Tim Hack and Kelly Drew in Wisconsin.
He was 76 years old
, married to his wife Kay since 1968, and had 5 children and 11 grandchildren. He had been married twice before, in 1955 and 1959.Police used Edwards' own specially equipped van to transport the 5-foot, 8-inch, 280-pound man to jail in Kentucky. Edwards pleaded not guilty, and was extradited to Wisconsin by private plane, with medical professionals on board.
According to John A Cameron:
In 2009 Edwards portrayed himself in public as an invalid with a cane and a wheel chair.
He was never an invalid, but portrayed himself as one when he was in public, and with his wife. When he was not with his wife, he could do anything. He flew in and out of his murder scenes through private charted aircraft. He had private plane connections in Chicago and Florida.
Although in the end
he portrayed himself as a cripple, he was never wheel chair bound unless he was doing a ruse. Edwards forced prison staff to push him around in a wheel chair in 2009, 2010 and 2011.In 1972, when he was suspected of possibly being the Zodiac Killer, he faked a broken back; and police didn’t follow up.
He used the wheel chair ruse in 2009 once he was identified as a serial killer, with the hopes that someone would get lazy and he could escape again as he had in 1949, 1950, 1955 and 1959.
In 2011, as the prison staff pushed him to his cell, he would stand up and walk to his bed.
The wheel chair ruse allowed everyone to think that he could not harm anyone.
Edwards, pictured above after his arrest on July 30, 2009, was the consummate con man, making a mockery of the U.S. justice system. Don't put it past Edwards, knowing that his arrest was imminent, to pack on some more pounds and get himself a wheelchair, handicap van, and oxygen tank to look like a harmless blob by the time he was arrested five months after his daughter phoned in her tip. He would be noticeably thinner almost a year later, in May 2010, when he confessed to five murders.
NBC15 News
Thursday, July 30, 2009 --- 9:05 p.m.
A suspect is under arrest for the double murder of two high school sweethearts almost 30 years ago.Attorney General's Office
It’s a case dating back to 1980 in Jefferson County. NBC15’s Dana Brueck just profiled this cold case in March of this year. That script can be found below.
The double homicide happened in August 1980. 19-year-old’s Timothy Hack and Kelly Drew were both killed.
A suspect was arrested this afternoon in Louisville, Kentucky. He's 76-year-old Edward Wayne Edwards. He is reportedly in poor health. He was characterized as a drifter. He was working in the area at the time of the murder. According to Drew's family, investigators told them it appears that Timothy Hack and Kelly Drew were at the wrong place at the wrong time.
Hack was the son of a local farmer. Drew was a beauty school graduate.
The two attended a wedding reception on August 9th at the Concord House Dance Hall. They arrived at 10:30 pm in Tim’s old Cutlass Supreme, which his younger brother Patrick owns to this day. Afterwards, they were set to meet up with friends at a carnival in Ft. Atkinson. But they never arrived.
Police believes Hack and Drew were abducted from the parking lot at the reception. They were reported missing the next day.
Their bodies were found by hunters on October 19th, 1980. They were located just off of Hustisford Road, south of Highway 16. Drew was found nude, in some woods. Hack was found in a cornfield.
Stay with NBC15 and NBC15.com for continuing coverage on this breaking news story.
Friday, July 31, 2009 --- 3:00 a.m.
MADISON - Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen and Jefferson County Sheriff Paul Milbrath announced that the Jefferson County Sheriff’s Department, in conjunction with the Wisconsin Department of Justice, arrested Edward W. Edwards late this afternoon in connection with the murders of Kelly Drew and Timothy Hack. The suspect was taken into and remains in custody in Louisville, Kentucky.The Associated Press
“I am pleased the work of law enforcement and the success of our cooperative cold-case efforts have resulted in the arrest of a suspect in this matter,” said Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen. “My thoughts are with the family and friends of Ms. Drew and Mr. Hack.”
The Hack/Drew Murders, dating back to 1980, were the subject of a cooperative “cold-case” investigation by the Wisconsin Department of Justice and the Jefferson County Sheriff’s Office and have been the subject of recent media attention into the murders.
Sheriff Paul Milbrath said, “My goal has always been and remains to get justice for the victims of these crimes. This arrest brings us closer to that goal.”
Friday, July 31, 2009 --- 9:30 a.m.
JEFFERSON, Wis. (AP) — Prosecutors have charged a Kentucky man with killing two high school sweethearts who disappeared from a wedding reception nearly 30 years ago in Wisconsin.NBC15 News
Seventy-six-year-old Edward Edwards, of Louisville, Ky., faces two counts of first-degree murder in the deaths of Tim Hack and Kelly Drew, both 19. Investigators from Wisconsin arrested Edwards Thursday afternoon in Louisville. Jefferson County District Attorney Susan Happ filed the charges after her office closed Thursday afternoon.
A criminal complaint says analysts at the state crime lab matched DNA taken from semen found on Drew's pants to Edwards.
Friday, July 31, 2009 -- 9:45 a.m.
Det. Sgt. Larry Lee with the Jefferson County Sheriff's Office tells NBC15 News the suspect in the 1980 double murder of Kelly Drew and Tim Hack was under surveillance in Louisville, KY, for hours before investigators received a warrant for the arrest of Edward W. Edwards.NBC15 News
Det. Sgt. Lee says Edwards has a number of children. He was arrested at his trailer home on Sailor Road. Lee says Jefferson County Detective Chad Garcia and retired state DCI agent Rick Luell were in Kentucky for the arrest of Edwards.
Back in 1980, Lee says Edwards was working as a handyman in Jefferson County, and he was only in the area for a couple of months.
He was interviewed at the time but was not considered a major suspect. Lee points out there were two weddings happening at the time Drew and Hack vanished from Concord House dance hall, and there were hundreds of people interviewed.
Lee says, "It's a huge case for us. It's a case, for obvious reasons, we wanted to solve... to get some closure for the families. It's a case that's hung over our heads for 30 years. It feels really good to possibly get to a closure."
Lee also says, "Modern technology is what did it."
Investigators say they've linked DNA from the suspect to DNA found on evidence, re-submitted to the crime lab in 2007. Investigators also received a tip after NBC15 News profiled the case in March of 2009.
Lee says, "The tip made us look at him hard as a suspect, and when we looked at him, things were starting to fall into place as him being a possible good suspect. Obviously good enough we were able to get a search warrant for his DNA."
Lee says because Edwards was in Jefferson County for such a short time, people didn't know him and he didn't have a reputation. He says, "Even though he was talked to, there were no red flags... that's what made it tough."
Friday, August 28, 2009 -- 11 a.m.
In an exclusive interview, we're hearing from a daughter of the suspect in a 1980 double homicide out of Jefferson County.NBC15 News
The woman says she is working with investigators to help bring closure to families with loved ones who may be victims of her father. That, she says, is her "agenda."
The woman has asked NBC15 not identify her by name. She has a business and says she, and her siblings, are all law-abiding citizens, living their lives the opposite way in which they were raised.
But, she says she is "well aware of her father's activities." When asked to elaborate, she said "no comment." But she also said she forgave her father a long time ago.
Edwards was arrested last month in Kentucky for the murder 29 years ago of Tim Hack and Kelly Drew. His daughter says she has not talked to him since his arrest. She refused to describe her relationship with him before he was taken into custody. She says she holds out hope her father will cooperate with investigators and help other families. And regardless of what he may have done, she is concerned about him - Edwards is 76 and in poor health.
She says, growing up, Edwards did the best with what he had. An autobiography details his self-described life of crime. He's also been characterized as a drifter. His daughter makes clear, however, she wants families of potential victims to see justice. Again, she says wants to be judged by her character - not by what her father is accused of doing. She also asked about the Hack and Drew families, expressing concern about how they're dealing with all of these developments.
Friday, October 16, 2009 -- 1:15 p.m.
Edward W. Edwards appeared Friday morning by video conference for his arraignment, during which he pleaded not guilty to two counts of 1st degree murder.The Associated Press
The 76-year-old man from Kentucky is charged in the deaths of 19-year-olds Tim Hack and Kelly Drew, two Jefferson County teens who disappeared after a wedding reception in the summer of 1980.
District Attorney Susan Happ initially requested two weeks for trial in February, but Public Defender Jeff De La Rosa indicated he would need more time. At that point, the state requested to reserve the right to demand a speedy trial. The judge set a tentative trial date in January, but it's expected a new trial date could be set during a status conference in November.
Edwards appeared by video conference from the infirmary of Dodge Correctional Institution in Waupun.
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 --- 3:20 p.m.
JEFFERSON, Wis. (AP) -- A trial date has been set for the drifter charged with murder in the deaths of two Fort Atkinson-area teens nearly 30 years ago.
A judge on Tuesday said 76-year-old Edward W. Edwards of Louisville, Ky., will go on trial on March 8, 2010, on two counts of first-degree murder. He has pleaded not guilty.
He's charged with killing Kelly Drew of Fort Atkinson and Tim Hack of Hebron. They disappeared in August 1980, after leaving a wedding reception. Their bodies were found months later.
Edwards did not appear on court on Tuesday. He's being held in the Dodge Correctional Institution in Waupun, where he is receiving medical treatment.
The trial is expected to take about two weeks.
The Associated Press
Thursday, June 10, 2010 --- 10:20 a.m.
Friday, April 8, 2011 --- 8:03 p.m.
By Mamamia
January 11, 2018
The following are comments at Topix from a Robison family member named Shirley, a cousin of Richard Robison.
Shirley
Nashport, OH
#1290 Dec 15, 2009
Susan
I am Shirley of Ohio. There are very few of us left who remember it all. I am 74. Richard was my cousin and it is only cousins who are left on the Robison side. I would so love to see some official designation that Scolaro did this, but it will not change the heart ache and loss. I keep reading this forum as you people here have done so much to try to come to some conclusions. I still do not see how he did it alone. Richard was a very intelligent and charismatic man. I find it so difficult to believe that Scolaro fooled him, but the likely possibility that Scolaro was a malignent narcissist, could explain that. I have lived with one, and I know how they operate.....it is pure evil manipulation. I never met Scolaro.
I only have compassion for his children and wife. Please keep up the good work on this board.
Shirl
Columbus, OH
#1406 Mar 4, 2010
I am still here. Taking note of all the comments. I have so little to add to what you all have done. I know that Richard's sister never had a doubt that Joe did this. She was very satisfied that the investigators had done all possible to resolve this. We, the cousins, followed her lead and did not "make waves" as she really wanted to not talk about it. An Aunt gave me a complete file on every newpaper clipping. I kept it in a closet and could not even look at it until a couple of years ago when I pulled it out and passed it on to one of our young generation who wanted it and had never known the family. I appreciated Marty doing the book with the skill and good taste. It helped me, I think, to read it.
Shirl
Columbus, OH
#1413 Mar 5, 2010
Richard, I would be willing to do that, but first I would need to check with my siblings. I have two brothers and four sisters still living (thank you, God). If they have no objection I will post on here and let you know. My personal opinion is that we Robison kin owe you kind folks for keeping this issue alive.
Shirl
Columbus, OH
#1440 Mar 13, 2010
Donald C. Roebert and wife buried near the Robison family was living at 13912 Harrington, Warren Mi. He was a son of a Charles Roebert, born in Chicago and a son of German immigrants. Donald was raised on Montclair Av in Detroit. He had sister, Dorothy and brother, Melbourne (Mel). Mel died in Los Angeles in 1976 and it is probable that he had a son who was a Father Michael M. Roebert, priest, still living in Long Beach. The original immigrant had 10 children, most of them staying in the Chicago area. The were all just common hard working (mostly factory) people. I could find no reason to connect them to Richard. However, you folks who live in Michigan, may find some other info on them. One question pops up. Could the medal and "father" that Richard alludes too, be a Catholic priest. To answer the question on being a Mason.....I am almost certain Richard was. It's been a long time and I am 74. An Uncle of ours was a 32nd degree Mason and I know he got my oldest brother into the Masons and I do believe, Richard, also.
Shirl
Columbus, OH
#1447 Mar 16, 2010
Richard, I checked with my siblings about the request to have this examined by the BSUnit. All were OK with it except this from my sister in Calif.
Shirl,
I haven't read my email for a few days, so sorry for the delay. Several years ago I personally talked with Elaine about the case and the book that was being written or had been written ( i don't remember which). She seemed so distrought that people wanted to keep bringing this up after all these years. Since she is the only next of kin left, I think the decision is totally up to her. If she says yes, then I say yes. However if it is going to bring her pain and says no.then so do I.
Libby
As you can see this is why I am conflicted about raising any new investigations. My question for you is, can this be done without making the news or involving Elaine in anyway?
I have had an up close and personal relationship with a narcissist and know just how evil and devoid of any human feelings they can be. I can see this being the case with Scolaro.
If you think we can do this and keep it quiet, I am still willing to be the one to request it, but I would not want to bring anymore grief to Elaine, and also, I believe that some of Shirley Robison's family may still have some say in this. I think someone from her family posted at one time on this board.
Shirl
Columbus, OH
#1449 Mar 17, 2010
Elaine is Richard's sister. The only one of that branch of the Robison family, other than cousins, still living.
On June 25, 1968, the Robison family of six was murdered in their vacation cottage in Good Hart, Michigan.
Three weeks prior to the murders of the six members of the Robison family, the father, Richard "Dick" Robison, flew to San Francisco to meet a mysterious investor named Roebert.
From Hour Detroit Magazine, June 2008:
Before the family left for a summer-long vacation on Sunday, June 16, 1968, Robison had dropped hints about a “big deal” that was going to make him a “tycoon.” It apparently involved a certain “Mr. Roberts” who was to fly into Pellston on his personal Lear jet, spend a little time at the cottage, and then take the family on a trip south. Robison was looking to buy a horse farm in Kentucky and a beachfront condo in Florida.
Based on phone records and the recollections of tree trimmers working around the cottage, police determined the murders occurred on the evening of Tuesday, June 25. Earlier that day, Robison had called his bank to see if an expected $200,000 deposit had been made in the agency’s account. A bank official said it hadn’t, then inquired about the surprisingly low balance.
Robison aimed to raise $100 million from investors known as the “Superior Table.” He described the Table as a “world-wide organization” dedicated to “complete peace and unity among all countries on Earth.” Its chairman was a mysterious figure named “Roebert,” who presided over other investors with names like Mr. Thomas and Mr. Peters. The cryptic references to Roebert included a St. Christopher medal Robison wore that was engraved with the words: “Richard — To my chosen son and heir — God bless you — Roebert.”
Was Roebert the “Mr. Roberts” expected on the night of the murders? If so, no such person ever arrived at the Pellston airport nor inquired about the family afterward.
Detectives learned Robison had spent three days at the Metro Airport Hotel just before the family left for Good Hart — not the first time he had secretly checked into an airport hotel while telling his family he was away on a business trip.
Scolaro, who claimed to have almost no idea of what the secretive Robison was up to, said the hotel was probably being used as a headquarters for the new venture. But Robison evidently never left his room, saw any visitors, or placed any unusual phone calls.
What, if anything, did these clandestine activities have to do with the murders?
Were Roebert and other members of the Superior Table real or part of some elaborate fantasy?
To this day, nobody knows.
Laura
Chillicothe, OH
#62 Oct 23, 2007
Michigan Case #7471
Complaint Number 78-785-68
The following is some of the police report copied verbatim, typos and all.
The scene is a 1 1/2 story stone and log cabin that faces west toward Lake Michigan beach. The living room extends across the south end of the cabin with a fireplace located in the center of the south wall. A stairway is located near the east wall just north of the east door. This stariway goes up to the 1/2 story that is over the north 2/3 of the building. A bedroom is located in this area with two beds in same. A hallway is located in the center of the main foor leading north to the two bedrooms that are located in the north west and north east corners of the cabin. To the south of the N.E. bedroom is the bath with entrance off the hallway. To the south of the N.W. bedroom is the kitchen with entrance off the living room. Entrances to the cabin are on the east side that leads into the living room and on the west side that leads into the living room.
Bodies Located:
The body of an adult female was located on her stomach, head to the north and general angle of the body to the north west. This victim was covered with a red plaid blanket. There was a torn panty girdle around her ankles. Her hose was pulled down around her ankles and she had a beige colored shoe on her left foot. Located on a chair directly west of the body was another beige shoe (right foot) that was similar to the one on the body. When the blanket was removed it was discovered that the woman's green dress was pulled up above the victim's waist leaving the body nude from the waist down. The body was in an advanced state of decomposition. This victim later identified as being Shirley Robison.
In the hallway leading to the bedrooms three bodies were located. The body of an adult male was located on its stomach with the general direction of the body to the north east. This victim had gray hair and was wearing a white jacket and blue trousers with white or beige deck type shoes. The body was located partially over a floor furnace register and was in an advanced state of decomposition and mumification. Victim later identified as being Richard C. Robison, SR.
Partially on top of the above stated adult male was the body of an adolescent or adult male on its stomach with the head to the south and legs spread apart. This victim was clothed in blue dress slacks, blue jacket or shirt, brown loafers and was partially covered with a rose/gray throw rug. This victim was later identified as being Randall Robison.
Along the east wall of the hallway next to the above two bodies was the body of an adolescent female. This victim was on her back with head towards the north. Victim was clothed in a yellow/orange dress, white anklet socks and black shoes and body was in an advanced state of decomposition. Clothing on this victim did not appear to be disturbed in such a manner as to indicate possible sexual assault. This victim later identified as being Susan Robison.
In the doorway leading into the north west bedroom was the body of an adult male on its stomach. Victim was laying with head towards the west and was wearing a white shirt, blue dress slacks and black shoes. The body of this victim was in an advanced state of decomposition. Victim was later identified as being Richard Robison, Jr.
In the north west bedroom along the east wall next to the bed was the body of another adult male. This victim was lying on his back with head to the north. Victim was wearing a red shirt, blue slacks and brown loafers. The body was in an advanced state of decomposition. This victim was later identified as being Gary Robison.
The note in the images below (rotated vertically and horizontally) was put on the Robisons’ cottage to deter neighbors (it had to have been done by the killer).
Compare the writing on the questioned origin envelope in the 1966 Cheri Joe Bates murder case (image below) and on the cottage note (image above). The famous cartoony "P" on the Riverside envelope from 1966 (and never seen by the public until decades later) looks very similar to the half-completed "B" on the cottage note.
On November 2, 2001, the day after the murder of Kent Heitholt, Edwards blogged at Zodiackiller.com about a confrontation he had with a newspaper employee. Edwards used the name "Sylvie" and tied the rant to a Riverside press article on the 1966 murder of Cheri Joe Bates, a supposed Zodiac victim (Sylvia was the name of "Roebert's secretary," as noted in the "Superior Table" memo). The Riverside Police Department wrongfully accused the Zodiac of the Cheri Joe Bates murder.
Thursday, June 10, 2010 --- 10:20 a.m.
(AP) -- A former Kentucky con man has left Wisconsin to plead guilty to a double homicide in Ohio.The Associated Press
Seventy-six-year-old Edward Edwards pleaded guilty on Wednesday in Wisconsin in the deaths of 19-year-old sweethearts Tim Hack and Kelly Drew in 1980.
He also agreed to plead guilty to the 1977 slayings of 21-year-old Bill Lavaco and 18-year-old Judith Straub in Summit County, Ohio. He's set to enter his plea and be sentenced there on Friday.
Jefferson County, Wis., Sheriff's Deputy Kevin Kellogg says authorities moved Edwards out of the jail there early Thursday morning and were en route to Ohio.
Friday, April 8, 2011 --- 8:03 p.m.
An elderly Kentucky con man who pleaded guilty to five slayings in Wisconsin and Ohio has died in prison of natural causes.
Ohio prisons spokesman Carlo LoParo tells The Associated Press that 77-year-old Edward Edwards died Thursday night at the Corrections Medical Center in Columbus, where he was being held.
Edwards' death was first reported Friday by the Daily Jefferson County Union newspaper in Fort Atkinson, Wis. The Louisville, Ky., man was sentenced to death after he admitted killing his 25-year-old foster son in 1996.
He previously told the AP he confessed to killing Dannie Boy Edwards outside Burton, east of Cleveland, because he wanted the death penalty.
Edwards also pleaded guilty to killing 21-year-old Bill Lavaco of Doylestown and 18-year-old Judith Straub of Sterling in 1977.Edwards Describes His Year-long Plot to Murder His Foster Son to Collect on Life Insurance (Part 1)
In Wisconsin, he admitted killing 19-year-old sweethearts Tim Hack and Kelly Drew, who disappeared from a wedding reception in 1980.
By Mamamia
January 11, 2018
On Saturday night, August 9, 1980, a boy named Timothy Hack and his girlfriend Kelly Drew went to a wedding reception at Concord House in Wisconsin.
He had plans to be a farmer and she had just graduated beauty school.
They had no intention of staying at the reception long. Instead, they sought to meet their friends at a carnival. However, they never showed up.
For three decades, their families were left to wonder and despair. They knew everything about their children, from their wants and interests and loves and quirks. But they did not know how they met their end. Instead, their children would publicly be known as the Sweetheart Murders: The two kids who accidentally ran into evil in a case that no one could seem to solve.
Some 32 years later, a woman by the name of April Balascio sat on her couch on an otherwise standard Sunday night in March 2009, her laptop sitting plum on her legs.
“It was a Sunday night, I was on my computer and I saw the State of Wisconsin had given a bunch of money to open cold cases and the Sweetheart Murders were one of them. So I started reading and… oh.
“It was at that time that I realised I had seen the Concord house before.
“And I was shaking, I was shaking because immediately I knew who it was that committed the murderers.”
The Concord House was a dance hall in Wisconsin where the couple been just prior to vanishing. She knew the hall, and she knew the killer. The killer had taken her to the scene of the crime before. The killer’s name was Edward Wayne Edwards, and he was her father.
Balascio, now aged 48, immediately told police what she knew and a few months later, her father was arrested. He later admitted to the murder, and the murders of at least three others.
In her memory, this Sunday night would mark the moment Balascio realised the man who walked her down the aisle was also one of the worst serial killers the US had ever seen.
Her father, she told PEOPLE, could be good with her and her siblings, but he wasn’t a normal kind of father.
“He could be very good with us kids,” she said. “He was sociable, charming … but he could also be abusive. When he was abusive, it was hell.”
In fact, on one fateful night in 1980, when her family were living in Wisconsin, he woke up the household and told his wife and kids to start packing. They were moving, and there was no time to think about it, nor talk about it.
At the time, Balascio was just 11.
It wasn't an anomaly, either. Her father would frequently - perhaps every six months to a year - uproot his family from the place in which they just settled, moving them along with no explanation or inclination to answer questions.
“He’d tell us the we had to move in secret because he was protecting us, because there were people who wanted to hurt him or us,” Balascio told PEOPLE.
Edwards died in custody in 2011, aged 77. At that time, he was officially convicted of five murders, however, many believe he could be responsible for more.
According to former FBI cold case taskforce detective John Cameron, who spoke to News Corp in 2016, Edwards could be responsible for "hundreds" more murders.
Prior to his death, the pair traded letters over a nine-month period, where Cameron would press the convicted killer on details of other unsolved cases.
In fact, their correspondence has led to Cameron believing he could have been responsible for the West Memphis Three murders, the Zodiac killings and the Teresa Halbach murder, which was recently the subject of the Netflix documentary Making A Murderer.
Cameron told News Corp that Edwards' killing was never random. He was, as they call it, a ritual killer. He killed on important holidays or key dates in his own life.
Teresa Halbach - the woman for whom Steven Avery was convicted of killing - was murdered on Halloween. He was living an hour from where she was killed at the time, and, as per the Sweetheart Murders, had killed in Wisconsin before.
Perhaps if Balascio had never made that initial phone call to police about her dad, the true extent of his crimes would have stayed under wraps forever.
The following are comments at Topix from a Robison family member named Shirley, a cousin of Richard Robison.
Shirley
Nashport, OH
#1290 Dec 15, 2009
Susan
I am Shirley of Ohio. There are very few of us left who remember it all. I am 74. Richard was my cousin and it is only cousins who are left on the Robison side. I would so love to see some official designation that Scolaro did this, but it will not change the heart ache and loss. I keep reading this forum as you people here have done so much to try to come to some conclusions. I still do not see how he did it alone. Richard was a very intelligent and charismatic man. I find it so difficult to believe that Scolaro fooled him, but the likely possibility that Scolaro was a malignent narcissist, could explain that. I have lived with one, and I know how they operate.....it is pure evil manipulation. I never met Scolaro.
I only have compassion for his children and wife. Please keep up the good work on this board.
Shirl
Columbus, OH
#1406 Mar 4, 2010
I am still here. Taking note of all the comments. I have so little to add to what you all have done. I know that Richard's sister never had a doubt that Joe did this. She was very satisfied that the investigators had done all possible to resolve this. We, the cousins, followed her lead and did not "make waves" as she really wanted to not talk about it. An Aunt gave me a complete file on every newpaper clipping. I kept it in a closet and could not even look at it until a couple of years ago when I pulled it out and passed it on to one of our young generation who wanted it and had never known the family. I appreciated Marty doing the book with the skill and good taste. It helped me, I think, to read it.
Shirl
Columbus, OH
#1413 Mar 5, 2010
Richard, I would be willing to do that, but first I would need to check with my siblings. I have two brothers and four sisters still living (thank you, God). If they have no objection I will post on here and let you know. My personal opinion is that we Robison kin owe you kind folks for keeping this issue alive.
Shirl
Columbus, OH
#1440 Mar 13, 2010
Donald C. Roebert and wife buried near the Robison family was living at 13912 Harrington, Warren Mi. He was a son of a Charles Roebert, born in Chicago and a son of German immigrants. Donald was raised on Montclair Av in Detroit. He had sister, Dorothy and brother, Melbourne (Mel). Mel died in Los Angeles in 1976 and it is probable that he had a son who was a Father Michael M. Roebert, priest, still living in Long Beach. The original immigrant had 10 children, most of them staying in the Chicago area. The were all just common hard working (mostly factory) people. I could find no reason to connect them to Richard. However, you folks who live in Michigan, may find some other info on them. One question pops up. Could the medal and "father" that Richard alludes too, be a Catholic priest. To answer the question on being a Mason.....I am almost certain Richard was. It's been a long time and I am 74. An Uncle of ours was a 32nd degree Mason and I know he got my oldest brother into the Masons and I do believe, Richard, also.
EDITOR'S NOTE ON THE ROBISON AND ROEBERT CONNECTION:
In December 1935, Edwards' mother died (his father was not in the picture). After the death of his mother, Edwards' name was changed from Charles Edward Meyers to Edward Wayne Edwards (see images below of excerpts from Edwards' 1972 autobiography, "Metamorphosis of a Criminal, the Life Story of Ed Edwards").
In 1937, Edwards' foster mother was told she had multiple sclerosis, and, in 1940, Edwards was sent to the Parmadale Orphanage in Parma, Ohio. Edwards was beaten and abused in this Catholic orphanage until 1945. He made 15 attempts to escape, so the orphanage told his grandmother that they couldn't keep him any longer. Around March 1945, Edwards went to live with his grandmother in Akron, Ohio, and started to attend public school (Edwards' foster mother died on October 3, 1945).
Edwards' grandmother couldn't control him so, in the spring of 1946, Edwards was sent to a detention home. At the detention home, a Catholic Service League worker named Mr. Robison came to see Edwards and told him about a place called the Philadephia Protectory, where he could go to "learn a trade." In 1948, Edwards arrived with Mr. Robison at the Philadephia Protectory, which was actually a reform school, where guards bribed the boys for sexual services in exchange for things such as cigarettes.
Charles Roebert, who was a son of German immigrants. was born in Chicago; and many of his nine siblings and their families stayed in the Chicago area. The were all just common hard working (mostly factory) people.
Charles had three children: Donald, Dorothy and Melbourne Roebert. The three siblings grew up on Montclair Avenue in Detroit, Michigan.
Donald C. Roebert (born 1911) married Martha (born 1913), and they resided at 13912 Harrington Drive, Warren, Michigan.
Melbourne (Mel) Roebert lived in California. He died in Los Angeles in 1976.
Mel Roebert's son, Michael M Roebert, is a Catholic priest, living in Long Beach, California.
Michael M Roebert, was born in Detroit in 1940. He was ordained a Catholic priest in 1966.
Could the reference to "Father" in the St. Christopher’s medal found around Richard Robison’s neck, and in the letter found at the Robison’s cabin, allegedly written by Richard Robison (“your son”) to Roebert (“Father”), be alluding to a Catholic priest? The killer could have been the writer of the letter and the one to place the medal around Richard Robison’s neck.
Father Michael M Roebert had child sexual abuse allegations filed against him in 1969-1970 while at St. Joseph's Catholic Church in Pomona, California.
Donald Roebert and his wife Martha died in 1996 (Martha on 7/13/96 and Donald on 8/15/96). Their graves are within a short walking distance, and in the very same section, as the Robisons at Acacia Park Cemetery in Beverly Hills, Michigan (off Beverly Road, at the intersection of Bates Street).
EXCERPTED FROM BISHOPACCOUNTABILITY.ORG:
FATHER MICHAEL M. ROEBERT
Diocese
Status: Active
Named in civil lawsuit and in archdiocesan report; archdiocese has investigated and deemed the allegations unfounded.
Assignments
1967-68 St. Anthony Catholic Church Long Beach
1969-70 St. Joseph Catholic Church Pomona
1971-72 St. Anthony Catholic Church Oxnard
1973-76 St. Monica Catholic Church Santa Monica
1977-77 St. John's Seminary Camarillo
1978-78 Absent on Leave
1979-96 St. John's Seminary Camarillo
1997-2003 St. Lucy Catholic Church Long Beach
Lawsuits
Each entry represents an allegation of molestation of one plaintiff at the
location. Some plaintiffs have accused a priest of sexual misconduct in more
than one parish or other location.
1969-70 St. Joseph Catholic Church Pomona
[See our note on the LA Times database, or go to the top of the page for an index of priests.]
On February 17, 2004, Cardinal Roger Mahoney of the Archdiocese of Los Angeles released the Report to the People of God: Clergy Sexual Abuse in the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, 1930-2003. The report stated that 656 persons had accused 244 priests, deacons, brothers and seminarians of child sexual abuse. At the time of the report, 113 diocesan priests had been accused, 43 priests were deceased, 54 priests were no longer in ministry and 16 priests remained in ministry.
Cardinal Mahoney released a list of 211 clerics accused of sexual abuse in the Archdiocese of Los Angeles as an addendum to his report. The following year, 27 names were added to the Archdiocese’s list as a revision to the addendum. Since 2005, the Archdiocese of Los Angeles has posted, removed and re-posted the report and addendum to it website several times. Currently, the Archdiocese of Los Angeles does not have its list of accused clerics posted to its website. Instead, it has been replaced with an addendum stating the original Appendix released in 2004 is “outdated.”
It is unknown how many additional clergy have been accused of child sexual abuse in the Archdiocese of Los Angeles since 2004.
In 2007, the Archdiocese of Los Angeles reached the largest settlement to-date involving claims of clergy child sexual abuse. As part of the settlement, the Archdiocese agreed to compensate 508 sexual abuse survivors $660 million. Many of these claims were made possible by the 2003 one-year legislative window that allowed previously time-barred civil claims of child sexual abuse to be filed in court. The Archdiocese and Cardinal Mahoney agreed to release the priest personnel files on all alleged perpetrators, but the Archdiocese failed to do so in 2007.
Six years later and under court order, on January 31, 2013, the Archdiocese of Los Angeles released priest files on 128 priests as part of the non-monetary terms of the settlement. Along with the list was a “final addendum” dated October 2008 and provided three lists totaling 49 names, including 24 names that were not previously made public.
Click here for a list of names of priests accused of child sexual abuse in the Archdiocese of Los Angeles.
Shirl
Columbus, OH
#1447 Mar 16, 2010
Richard, I checked with my siblings about the request to have this examined by the BSUnit. All were OK with it except this from my sister in Calif.
Shirl,
I haven't read my email for a few days, so sorry for the delay. Several years ago I personally talked with Elaine about the case and the book that was being written or had been written ( i don't remember which). She seemed so distrought that people wanted to keep bringing this up after all these years. Since she is the only next of kin left, I think the decision is totally up to her. If she says yes, then I say yes. However if it is going to bring her pain and says no.then so do I.
Libby
As you can see this is why I am conflicted about raising any new investigations. My question for you is, can this be done without making the news or involving Elaine in anyway?
I have had an up close and personal relationship with a narcissist and know just how evil and devoid of any human feelings they can be. I can see this being the case with Scolaro.
If you think we can do this and keep it quiet, I am still willing to be the one to request it, but I would not want to bring anymore grief to Elaine, and also, I believe that some of Shirley Robison's family may still have some say in this. I think someone from her family posted at one time on this board.
Shirl
Columbus, OH
#1449 Mar 17, 2010
Elaine is Richard's sister. The only one of that branch of the Robison family, other than cousins, still living.
On June 25, 1968, the Robison family of six was murdered in their vacation cottage in Good Hart, Michigan.
Three weeks prior to the murders of the six members of the Robison family, the father, Richard "Dick" Robison, flew to San Francisco to meet a mysterious investor named Roebert.
From Hour Detroit Magazine, June 2008:
Before the family left for a summer-long vacation on Sunday, June 16, 1968, Robison had dropped hints about a “big deal” that was going to make him a “tycoon.” It apparently involved a certain “Mr. Roberts” who was to fly into Pellston on his personal Lear jet, spend a little time at the cottage, and then take the family on a trip south. Robison was looking to buy a horse farm in Kentucky and a beachfront condo in Florida.
Based on phone records and the recollections of tree trimmers working around the cottage, police determined the murders occurred on the evening of Tuesday, June 25. Earlier that day, Robison had called his bank to see if an expected $200,000 deposit had been made in the agency’s account. A bank official said it hadn’t, then inquired about the surprisingly low balance.
Robison aimed to raise $100 million from investors known as the “Superior Table.” He described the Table as a “world-wide organization” dedicated to “complete peace and unity among all countries on Earth.” Its chairman was a mysterious figure named “Roebert,” who presided over other investors with names like Mr. Thomas and Mr. Peters. The cryptic references to Roebert included a St. Christopher medal Robison wore that was engraved with the words: “Richard — To my chosen son and heir — God bless you — Roebert.”
Was Roebert the “Mr. Roberts” expected on the night of the murders? If so, no such person ever arrived at the Pellston airport nor inquired about the family afterward.
Detectives learned Robison had spent three days at the Metro Airport Hotel just before the family left for Good Hart — not the first time he had secretly checked into an airport hotel while telling his family he was away on a business trip.
Scolaro, who claimed to have almost no idea of what the secretive Robison was up to, said the hotel was probably being used as a headquarters for the new venture. But Robison evidently never left his room, saw any visitors, or placed any unusual phone calls.
What, if anything, did these clandestine activities have to do with the murders?
Were Roebert and other members of the Superior Table real or part of some elaborate fantasy?
To this day, nobody knows.
Laura
Chillicothe, OH
#62 Oct 23, 2007
Michigan Case #7471
Complaint Number 78-785-68
The following is some of the police report copied verbatim, typos and all.
The scene is a 1 1/2 story stone and log cabin that faces west toward Lake Michigan beach. The living room extends across the south end of the cabin with a fireplace located in the center of the south wall. A stairway is located near the east wall just north of the east door. This stariway goes up to the 1/2 story that is over the north 2/3 of the building. A bedroom is located in this area with two beds in same. A hallway is located in the center of the main foor leading north to the two bedrooms that are located in the north west and north east corners of the cabin. To the south of the N.E. bedroom is the bath with entrance off the hallway. To the south of the N.W. bedroom is the kitchen with entrance off the living room. Entrances to the cabin are on the east side that leads into the living room and on the west side that leads into the living room.
Bodies Located:
The body of an adult female was located on her stomach, head to the north and general angle of the body to the north west. This victim was covered with a red plaid blanket. There was a torn panty girdle around her ankles. Her hose was pulled down around her ankles and she had a beige colored shoe on her left foot. Located on a chair directly west of the body was another beige shoe (right foot) that was similar to the one on the body. When the blanket was removed it was discovered that the woman's green dress was pulled up above the victim's waist leaving the body nude from the waist down. The body was in an advanced state of decomposition. This victim later identified as being Shirley Robison.
In the hallway leading to the bedrooms three bodies were located. The body of an adult male was located on its stomach with the general direction of the body to the north east. This victim had gray hair and was wearing a white jacket and blue trousers with white or beige deck type shoes. The body was located partially over a floor furnace register and was in an advanced state of decomposition and mumification. Victim later identified as being Richard C. Robison, SR.
Partially on top of the above stated adult male was the body of an adolescent or adult male on its stomach with the head to the south and legs spread apart. This victim was clothed in blue dress slacks, blue jacket or shirt, brown loafers and was partially covered with a rose/gray throw rug. This victim was later identified as being Randall Robison.
Along the east wall of the hallway next to the above two bodies was the body of an adolescent female. This victim was on her back with head towards the north. Victim was clothed in a yellow/orange dress, white anklet socks and black shoes and body was in an advanced state of decomposition. Clothing on this victim did not appear to be disturbed in such a manner as to indicate possible sexual assault. This victim later identified as being Susan Robison.
In the doorway leading into the north west bedroom was the body of an adult male on its stomach. Victim was laying with head towards the west and was wearing a white shirt, blue dress slacks and black shoes. The body of this victim was in an advanced state of decomposition. Victim was later identified as being Richard Robison, Jr.
In the north west bedroom along the east wall next to the bed was the body of another adult male. This victim was lying on his back with head to the north. Victim was wearing a red shirt, blue slacks and brown loafers. The body was in an advanced state of decomposition. This victim was later identified as being Gary Robison.
The note in the images below (rotated vertically and horizontally) was put on the Robisons’ cottage to deter neighbors (it had to have been done by the killer).
Compare the writing on the questioned origin envelope in the 1966 Cheri Joe Bates murder case (image below) and on the cottage note (image above). The famous cartoony "P" on the Riverside envelope from 1966 (and never seen by the public until decades later) looks very similar to the half-completed "B" on the cottage note.
On November 2, 2001, the day after the murder of Kent Heitholt, Edwards blogged at Zodiackiller.com about a confrontation he had with a newspaper employee. Edwards used the name "Sylvie" and tied the rant to a Riverside press article on the 1966 murder of Cheri Joe Bates, a supposed Zodiac victim (Sylvia was the name of "Roebert's secretary," as noted in the "Superior Table" memo). The Riverside Police Department wrongfully accused the Zodiac of the Cheri Joe Bates murder.
We know Zodiac took credit for the murder of Cheri Joe Bates, but only after a potential connection had been made and published.
Was a connection ever made between Zodiac and the Santa Barbara crime during Zodiac's active period, i.e. 1968-1974. Or was it only after this period that a published connection was made?
My point being that Zodiac only takes credit for Cheri Joe Bates after the potential linkage is published.
Was a linkage to Santa Barbara ever published while Zodiac was still writing letters, and he did not take credit for it, or was such a connection never made until later?
I believe the first time Zodiac gives a count, seven murders, is with the "dripping pen card" on November 8, 1969, but we only know of five, so who are the other two? Santa Barbara? Or could the seven simply be the number of victims he has shot, not killed. He does seem to specify Des (Dec), July, Aug, Sept and Oct (which covers the four confirmed Zodiac killings).
I believe the first time Zodiac gives a count, seven murders, is with the "dripping pen card" on November 8, 1969, but we only know of five, so who are the other two? Santa Barbara? Or could the seven simply be the number of victims he has shot, not killed. He does seem to specify Des (Dec), July, Aug, Sept and Oct (which covers the four confirmed Zodiac killings).
In 1972, Santa Barbara made a public statement regarding a strong possibility that Zodiac was responsible for the homicide. It received a fair amount of media attention at the time. And yet Zodiac never took credit himself for this.
I'm guessing this got less attention then the Riverside connection published by Paul Avery, so maybe Zodiac took credit for Cheri Joe Bates because it was more highly publicized.
The problem is that we cannot believe anything Zodiac says unless we know for a fact he did it or can divulge information only he would know, hence the four major murders.
The problem is that we cannot believe anything Zodiac says unless we know for a fact he did it or can divulge information only he would know, hence the four major murders.
So by Zodiac either taking credit for something or not taking credit for something, doesn't really tell us anything.
I just wonder if maybe Zodiac did Santa Barbara, hence the seven referenced in the "dripping pen card." By not taking credit for it directly (possibly because it was his first murder and it was sloppy), law enforcement wouldn't be in such a hurry to link them.
On the other hand, if Zodiac took credit for Cheri Joe Bates in Riverside, but didn't commit the crime, he is basically throwing out a red herring.
On the facts of both Santa Barbara and Riverside, I would say Santa Barbara is more of a Zodiac crime then Riverside: Riverside seems to have more of an impulse angle to it (even though there was planning involved); Santa Barbara is more of a stalking/hunting exercise.
On the other hand, if Zodiac took credit for Cheri Joe Bates in Riverside, but didn't commit the crime, he is basically throwing out a red herring.
On the facts of both Santa Barbara and Riverside, I would say Santa Barbara is more of a Zodiac crime then Riverside: Riverside seems to have more of an impulse angle to it (even though there was planning involved); Santa Barbara is more of a stalking/hunting exercise.
AKWILKS wrote on August 10, 2011 at Websleuths:
The Detroit News had a secret witness program to get information on the Robison family murder case.
In August 1968 someone sent in a tip that said they had information on the case but in order to get it law enforcement had to place an ad in the personals classified (image below). This is what the ad said -- the exact words required by the anonymous tipster:
DR. GUIDINI: Your prescription good.
However, need additional.
-Zodius
ZODIUS?
Remember this is four months before the Jensen/Faraday murder, and exactly a year before the killer called himself "Zodiac" in the letter of August 4, 1969.
ZODIUS
ZODIAC
The words share 4 of 6 letters.
From the wiki defintion of ZODIAC:
The term zodiac derives from Latin zΕdiacus, which in its turn comes from the Greek ΞΆαΏ³Ξ΄ΞΉΞ±ΞΊα½ΈΟ ΞΊΟΞΊΞ»ΞΏΟ (zΕdiakos kuklos), meaning "circle of animals", derived from ΞΆΟδιον (zΕdion), the diminutive of ΞΆαΏΆΞΏΞ½ (zΕon) "animal". The name is motivated by the fact that half of the signs of the classical Greek zodiac are represented as animals (besides two mythological hybrids).
The Latin term for Zodiac, "ZODIACUS," has the most similarity to the term used by the Detroit News tipster, "ZODIUS."
I had never paid much attention to this case, because the police said it was more or less closed, as they thought that Mr. Robison's business partner, suspect of embezzlement, killed the family. Others have questioned how he could have been seen by witnesses in Detroit and made it in time to go to Good Hart to do the killings. He would have to have traveled 300 miles in three hours. The police said he may have hired a hitman.
But William T. Rasmussen, author of "Corroborating Evidence III," raises a new theory. He mentions reports that Mr. Robison, a publisher of a magazine called Impresario, was contacted by a mysterious possible investor named "Roebert" who was interested in the project of Robison to create "computerized warehouse operations and cultural support centers."
There is a reported possible meeting in SAN FRANCISCO on June 4-7, 1968, between future victim Mr. Robison and the mysterious Roebert, and another meeting in Detroit on June 13/14, 1968. The next meeting was scheduled for June 25, 1968, the day the family was killed.
The strange Roebert was reported to have a "monotone voice" with "frequent pauses." Sounds similar to the description of the voice of Zodiac.
Who was the mysterious "Roebert"? Was this the business partner Joseph Scolaro, or an associate of his? Or was he a stranger to the Robison family?
Was this the work of the business partner and possible embezzler Joseph Scolaro, who later killed himself? Maybe, there was evidence to suggest he did it, and that is what the police think. If Mr. Robison suspected Scolaro of embezzlement, that would give Scolaro a motive to kill Mr. Robison. But the prosecutor did not file charges, citing lack of hard evidence. Scolaro denied doing the murder in his suicide note. And why would he kill the whole family? Was this the work of a hitman hired by the business partner? Maybe, but the battering of the female faces and the strange posing of bodies is not usually associated with professional hitmen.
akwilks wrote on August 9, 2011 at Unazod:
SUPERIOR TABLE (image above) is such a weird name for an international organization, even a fake one, in the first place. The "Superior Table"? What the heck does that mean?
The author of the "Superior Table" memo (image above), using a weird cursive typewriter font, does put *** under the "EBE" in the name "ROEBERT." And these murders did happen in EMMET County, Michigan.
Look at the famous Unsolved 18 (the last 18 letters in the "408 cipher," sent on July 31, 1969 -- this was the first cipher sent by the Zodiac Killer, and it was his longest, 408 characters). The killer split it into three pieces of equal length and mailed to two newspapers in San Francisco and to one paper in nearby Vallejo, demanding they be printed or he would go on a “kill rampage.”
Look at the order given by Zodiac in the "Unsolved 18" sequence, and see where the letters for the name ROEBERT and EMET are:
E..B..E..O..R..I..E..T..E..M..E..T..H..H..P..I..T..I
The author of the "Superior Table" memo (image above), using a weird cursive typewriter font, does put *** under the "EBE" in the name "ROEBERT." And these murders did happen in EMMET County, Michigan.
Look at the famous Unsolved 18 (the last 18 letters in the "408 cipher," sent on July 31, 1969 -- this was the first cipher sent by the Zodiac Killer, and it was his longest, 408 characters). The killer split it into three pieces of equal length and mailed to two newspapers in San Francisco and to one paper in nearby Vallejo, demanding they be printed or he would go on a “kill rampage.”
Look at the order given by Zodiac in the "Unsolved 18" sequence, and see where the letters for the name ROEBERT and EMET are:
E..B..E..O..R..I..E..T..E..M..E..T..H..H..P..I..T..I
On July 31, 1969, the Zodiac killer mailed three letters to three different San Francisco newspapers. Each letter included details about his recent murders, and a third of his 408-character cryptogram. The pieces of the cryptogram were soon published, and in less than a week, Donald and Bettye Harden had already solved the cryptogram. Their solution was published in the San Francisco Chronicle on August 9, 1969. “I’m convinced he has it solved”, said Detective Sergeant John Lynch, who was in charge of the case at the time. The Hardens’ solution is well-known, but Sergeant Lynch also received a lesser-known solution to the cryptogram (left image above), sent in the mail on August 10th by a “concerned citizen”, and obtained in 2011 via the valiant FOIA efforts of morf. [Source]
We have messages to the newspaper from ZODIAC, and the last line in a coded message that reads:
EBEORIETEMETHHPITI
Which contains EBE, and ROEBE, and EMET.
KITE wrote on August 8, 2011 at Unazod:
Let me put some things together here:
- EMMET County, Michigan (the location of the Robison family murder) was named after Irish patriot Robert Emmet in 1843 (the same Robert Emmet possibly alluded to in the Zodiac "Unknown 18" -- Robert Emmet The Hippie)
- ROEBERT is an anagram for Robert E
- ROEBERT was from San Francisco?
- There is a statue of Irish patriot Robert Emmet in San Francisco
- ROEBERT has the EBE with dots underneath (in the "Superior Table" memo, image above, and in the note "to my chosen son" and the name "Roebert" in an uneven scrawl scratched on the back the St. Christopher medal found around Dick Robison's neck)
- "EBE" begins the Zodiac "Unknown 18," EBEORIETEMETHHPITI, the last 18 letters in the "408 cipher," sent on July 31, 1969 (the first cipher sent by the Zodiac Killer, and the longest, 408 characters) that can be considered an approximate of Robert Emmet The Hippie
- An anonymous tipster used the name ZODIUS concerning the Robison case in 1968
Roebert (a.k.a Zodius) is NOT a myth -- it is a fact.
The Robisons themselves told us who killed them, exactly who (Roebert/Zodius) they were expecting to come to their cabin that day. The Robison family themselves told a dozen people exactly who was coming to their cabin. It is an abomination that no one will listen to Richard and Shirley, who told us who came to their cabin that day.The employees of the post office, and the employees of the department store, told us who they saw up north that day asking for directions to the Robison cabin -- and they told Fliss and Sterns that he was NOT Scolaro!! All of the people who want to use Scolaro as a scapegoat close their ears and close their minds to the evidence of the four people up north who saw and talked to "Roebert" the day before the murders, and identified him as definitely NOT being Scolaro.
The symbols engraved on the St Christopher medal, which was placed around Richard's neck, the envelope and letter sent to the Detroit News, were sent by Zodius -- NOT Scolaro! A simple DNA test of the envelope and stamp could add to the proof that it was not Scolaro.
The law enforcement community continue to try to support Fliss and Sterns who never ever tried to find the murderer. Fliss and Sterns were incompetent, inexperienced, uneducated, untrained, and from the very first day they themselves admitted that they continually tried to pin the murders on Scolaro instead of going after the real murderer: Roebert (Zodius).
Roebert (Zodius) murdered the Robisons, Roebert got away with it, Roebert remains unpunished. Nobody is ever going to rest in peace.......... until a fresh new objective police detective, who is given a free hand, takes on this case and follows the evidence to Roebert.
Is it possible Scolaro made a deal with the devil/Edwards? The letter from "Roebert" has Edwards/Zodiac written all over it. Edwards was such a con and blamethrower that he could have talked Scolero into taking him to the cottage or disclosing the location...the whole business deal sounds like it was an Edwards con.
For disclosure I have had this whole story latent all these decades until Mr. Cameron came on the radio on Coast to Coast during the weekend and tied the Robison case to Edwards/Zodiac.
Richard "Dick" Robison was a Publisher-Editor of Impresario Entertainment Magazine.
cheyenne wrote in 2011 at Topix:
The only motive that existed, was the motive that someone had by intending the entire family to be murdered, by intending that the family murders to be so brutal and sensational that Dick's death would be well publicized in the media even though the Michigan newspapers were on strike in 1968.
The only way for this story to be publicized in Michigan in 1968 when there were no newspapers, is for the entire family to be brutally massacred. Only the brutal massacre of an entire family would get publicized in Michigan in 1968. The reason why Shirley, Susan, and the boys were killed was because their deaths were needed in order for Dick's death to become publicized. The purpose of "all this deception" was needed in order to make a news story so horrific that it would get publicized and so that everyone would hear about Dick's infamous death even though there were no newspapers.
The police always like to erroneously blame the family or the business partner, someone very close to the victim, because it is so easy to find evidence, opportunity, disagreements, arguments, motivations whenever you take a close look at husband, wife, business partner, friend. It is also the lazy way to investigate.
I dare say, that in all of the criminal cases in the USA, if the jury was only to hear from the prosecution and the police, then 99% of defendants would be found Guilty just as Joe Scolaro. What if everyone hear was charged with a crime and was prosecuted, but was not allowed to cross exam, was not allowed to put up a defense, and was not allowed to have an attorney to bring forth a defense?
The police and prosecution freely admit that in the first hours before the investigation really began that they had already convinced themselves and had determined that Joe did the murders. If people are only going to listen to, and only accept, what the police and prosecutor says, then this might as well as happened in Stalinist Soviet Union.
Posted by A-K Royal Oak at Topix on October 24, 2011 (comments #2108 and #2113):
Emmet County Sheriff Department
Complaint No. 124-693-68
Date August 30, 1968
Subject: Search and Itemization Listing of Robison Cabin Personal Effects
"Mr Dean Edders of the First National Back of Detroit arrived at Sheriff's office @ 12:00 p.m. He asked Sheriff Zink to have him transported to the Robison cabin in Good Hart so that he could conduct a personal examination of the house and grounds and itemize the contents."
"The undersigned officer accompanied Mr. Edders to the cabin where Mr. Edders conducts a thorough search of the house and grounds."
Signed Clifford Fosmore-Undersheriff
A-K Royal Oak wrote at Topix on October 24, 2011:
In October, after being given clearance from MSP Chief Detective Daniel Myre, Dean Edders, acting executor of the Richard C. Robison estate, hired Clifford Fosmore, undersheriff and owner of an Emmet County excavating and hauling business, to clean out the Robison house and property of all items. He was entitled to anything he so wished. Fosmore did so in late October and on November 2, 1968.
EMMET COUNTY SHERIFF DEPARTMENT
Complaint No 124-693-68
Date: July 23, 1968
Nature of Complaint:
Supplementary Report
Robison Family Murders in Good Hart, Michigan
RECOVERY OF EVIDENCE
"Deputy Sheriff Clarence Cole has delivered 21 hand written pages of documents to MSP crime lab technician Hugh Olney. These individual pages have IMPRESARIO letter head and Swenk-Tuttle Press, Inc markings in right hand corner. Richard C. Robison - editor/publisher is printed at top right with letter head."
Supplementary Report
Date: August 19, 1968
Subject: Telephone call from Detective Fish at State Crime Lab
Mr Fish, stated that he had found during examination that Mrs Robison's sanitary belt and napkin had been stabbed while being placed on the floor of the cabin after being removed from her body. Pictures of the floor indentations were taken.
Also, the .25 caliber pistol we are looking for was a 9-shot, this being 8 bullets in the clip and one in the barrel. There were 4-.22 caliber casings found just to right of back window where bullet holes were placed.
Tim Spencer
Posts 74
Old Newbie
January 16th, 2018, 2:11 pm #9
Hi,
Would still like to hear from Marge.
I have been investigating Edwards for years-just came up with something new-tying to the 408 [cipher].
Z wrote when you crack this code, you will have my identity.
Well everyone, please tell me where is it? Come on, a bunch of gibberish about slaves, killing people, paradise...... but absolutely nothing about an identity. So, he either lied or, more likely, we really have not cracked the code.
Why did he break it into thirds?
Why did he print it in a symetric grid form?
Why did he use 17 characters across?
Why did he use 24 lines?
In Edward's book, MOAC, he states he was sent to prison in the early 50's and given the prison number 33245.
Why would he tell us that?
Apply it to the 408.
3 parts to the crypto.
3 newspapers.
8 lines per [each of the 3 parts].
The prison number 33245.
3+3+2.
33 24 5.
3 parts to the crypto.
3 newspapers.
24 total lines [8 lines x 3 parts] and the 5 on the end?
You got it.
3+3+2+4+5=17
To me, that's a lot of co-incidences.
You Never Knew - Ep. 1, JOHN CAMERON interview on Serial Killer EDWARD EDWARDS
Tim Spencer wrote on August 11, 2011, at tapatalk:
We (John A Cameron and Tim, both from Great Falls, Montana) discovered a news article in Edwards' personal belongings -- Akron Beacon Journal, March 21,1971 (image above). Edwards claimed to have known and identified Zodiac from the composite as a fellow inmate in Deer Lodge named "Richard."
Did Edwards target Robert A Wiles because of Richard Wiles?
ReplyDelete2008, April 1. Lakeland, Florida. Two days after the Manson/Zodiac YouTube video was released, Edwards kidnaps and kills Toledo resident Robert A Wiles. Edwards will steer the kidnapping to Thailand like he did in the JonBenet Ramsey case in 2006. The ransom note asked for $750,000, the exact amount that would be paid out in kidnapping insurance from a policy held by the company where Robert worked and that his father owned. Jon BenetRamsey's parents were asked for the exact amount of her father's bonus in the ransom note found in their home.
Edwards targets Toledo, Ohio, after the wrongful conviction of Father Gerald Robinson. Edwards targets Robert A Wiles, a Toledo native living in Lakeland, Florida and working for his father, Tom Wiles.
Edwards kidnapped Robert A Wiles. He setup an innocent employee of the company named Stobert Toby Holt. Robert Wiles' body was never found.
Edwards commits the crime on April Fool's Day, his mother’s birthday. Edwards sends a ransom note with similar syntax as the JonBenet Ramsey ransom note. Edwards signed the ransom note “Group X,” which stands for “Signed By The Cross,” “S.B.T.C.”
https://georgezipperer.blogspot.com/2016/06/summary-of-edward-wayne-edwards-crimes.html
When Evil Came to Good Hart, 10th Anniversary Edition
ReplyDeleteMardi Link - 2018 - True Crime
An anonymous correspondent wrote a handwritten letter to attorney general Frank J. Kelley warning that undersheriff Clifford Fosmore “started buying a lot of ...
https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0472123904
In February 2010, Aldred 'Al' Koski of Royal Oak, Michigan died after dedicating over 40 years of his life to the Robison family murder case. Koski was a veteran Detroit newspaper and radio reporter who had been compiling information for a non-fictional Robison murder case book during those 40-plus years after the killings. His tentative title was SIX + ONE. Many pieces of his work were given to the Emmet County Sheriff's office in 2004.
For many years, the Emmet County Sheriff's Department and its 1968 Undersheriff, Clifford Fosmore, were portrayed in the press as being incompetent in their handling of the Robison cabin crime scene, since they were the first responders. This was not true. They all acted very professionally. Fosmore had been a member of the department since 1963, after receiving military police training in the United States Air Force. Michigan State Police Crime Lab head Charles Meyers has stated that his crime lab crew were able to forensically investigate the cabin and surrounding area without a problem. They were able to get what was possible given the available 1968 technology and the fact that the killer had a 27 day headstart.
http://self.gutenberg.org/articles/eng/Robison_family_murders
Shirl
ReplyDeleteColumbus, OH
#1440 Mar 13, 2010
Donald C. Roebert and wife buried near the Robison family was living at 13912 Harrington, Warren Mi. He was a son of a Charles Roebert, born in Chicago and a son of German immigrants. Donald was raised on Montclair Av in Detroit. He had sister, Dorothy and brother, Melbourne (Mel). Mel died in Los Angeles in 1976 and it is probable that he had a son who was a Father Michael M. Roebert, priest, still living in Long Beach. The original immigrant had 10 children, most of them staying in the Chicago area. The were all just common hard working (mostly factory) people. I could find no reason to connect them to Richard. However, you folks who live in Michigan, may find some other info on them. One question pops up. Could the medal and "father" that Richard alludes too, be a Catholic priest.
To answer the question on being a Mason.....I am almost certain Richard was. It's been a long time and I am 74. An Uncle of ours was a 32nd degree Mason and I know he got my oldest brother into the Masons and I do believe, Richard, also.
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/cross-village-mi/TUEIIUK73BJAVCO36/p71
Donald Roebert's nephew, Michael M Roebert, born in Detroit in 1940, was ordained a Catholic priest in 1966. Donald and his siblings Dorothy and Melbourne (Michael's father) grew up on Montclair Avenue in Detroit. The father of Donald, Dorothy and Melbourne, Charles Roebert, was born in Chicago, and many of his nine siblings and their families stayed in the Chicago area. Donald and his wife Martha died in 1996, and their graves are within short walking distance and in the very same section as the Robisons at Acacia Park Cemetery in Beverly Hills, Michigan (off Beverly Road, at the intersection of Bates Street).
Father Michael Roebert had sexual abuse allegations filed against him in 1969-1970 while at St. Joseph's Catholic Church in Pomona, California.
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/national/20051012_PRIEST.pdf
http://www.bishop-accountability.org/ca_la/LA_Times_Assignments_2.htm
THE ROBISON AND ROEBERT CONNECTION
ReplyDeleteIn December 1935, Edwards' mother died (his father was not in the picture). After the death of his mother, Edwards' name was changed from Charles Edward Meyers to Edward Wayne Edwards (see images below of excerpts from Edwards' 1972 autobiography, "Metamorphosis of a Criminal, the Life Story of Ed Edwards").
In 1937, Edwards' foster mother was told she had multiple sclerosis, and, in 1940, Edwards was sent to the Parmadale Orphanage in Parma, Ohio. Edwards was beaten and abused in this Catholic orphanage until 1945. He made 15 attempts to escape, so the orphanage told his grandmother that they couldn't keep him any longer. Around March 1945, Edwards went to live with his grandmother in Akron, Ohio, and started to attend public school (Edwards' foster mother died on October 3, 1945).
Edwards' grandmother couldn't control him so, in the spring of 1946, Edwards was sent to a detention home. At the detention home, a Catholic Service League worker named Mr. Robison came to see Edwards and told him about a place called the Philadephia Protectory, where he could go to "learn a trade." In 1948, Edwards arrived with Mr. Robison at the Philadephia Protectory, which was actually a reform school, where guards bribed the boys for sexual services in exchange for things such as cigarettes.
Charles Roebert, who was a son of German immigrants. was born in Chicago; and many of his nine siblings and their families stayed in the Chicago area. The were all just common hard working (mostly factory) people.
Charles has three children: Donald, Dorothy and Melbourne Roebert. The three siblings grew up on Montclair Avenue in Detroit, Michigan.
Donald C. Roebert (born 1911) married Martha (born 1913), and they resided at 13912 Harrington Drive, Warren, Michigan.
Melbourne (Mel) Roebert lived in California. He died in Los Angeles in 1976.
Mel Roebert's son, Father Michael M Roebert, is a Catholic priest, living in Long Beach, California.
Michael M Roebert, was born in Detroit in 1940. He was ordained a Catholic priest in 1966.
Could the reference to "Father" in the St. Christopher’s medal found around Richard Robison’s neck, and in the letter found at the Robison’s cabin allegedly written by Richard Robison (“your son”) to Roebert (“Father”), be alluding to a Catholic priest? The killer could have been the writer of the letter and the one to place the medal around Richard Robison’s neck.
Father Michael M Roebert had child sexual abuse allegations filed against him in 1969-1970 while at St. Joseph's Catholic Church in Pomona, California.
Donald Roebert and his wife Martha died in 1996 (Martha on 7/13/96 and Donald on 8/15/96). Their graves are within a short walking distance, and in the very same section, as the Robisons at Acacia Park Cemetery in Beverly Hills, Michigan (off Beverly Road, at the intersection of Bates Street).
THE ZODIAC CONNECTION
ReplyDeleteBy Jacqueline Monahan
I put out a call to one of the Zodiac Facebook groups asking various questions of the folks who were interested in the case. There were a fair number of responses, many of which were self-promotional in nature, but there was one set of eMails I received that made me look more deeply.
I know I say I don’t do the whole suspect thing, but of late, I’ve found a lot of interest in the potential of Z being Edward Wayne Edwards. Edwards is a known serial killer, best known for committing the Sweetheart Murders of Tim Hack and Kelly Drew. He was eventually captured, and died in prison in 2011, and many investigators believe that he had many other victims. Oh, and he was in Northern California at the time of the Zodiac murders.
Is he good for the Zodiac crimes? I could see the argument, though he’s not a favorite of a wide-swatch of the investigators’ world, but he’s got a following among some.
But these eMails, they were important to me. Something I always have to remember, no matter what I’m researching, is that these crimes affect people, humans. This is a prime example of someone who was not a victim, who tend to be the only one’s who get recognised by investigators, but who was deeply injured by a serial killer.
These eMails, though a touch disjointed, form an important part of the story of Edward Wayne Edwards, and not just his record of murders, but beyond that, to those who were tormented by him.
The reference to the Black Dahlia was no surprise, though Edwards would have been less than 13 years old. It is not unknown for killers to start as pre-teens, but it is also highly unlikely that someone so young could have done the kind of work the Black Dahlia Killer did to Elizabeth Short, not to mention carting the body, but this does speak to something in Edwards.
Even if he wasn’t involved in JonBenet or Adam Walsh, and I am fairly convinced he harrassed John Walsh after the naming of Otis Toole as the murderer, and that would indicate that Edwards was more than willing to take credit, to push his name out there, to build his ‘brand’ as a killer by taking credit for the work of others. This is possible, and since we know he murdered others, it would make sense that he would claim other murders to make his name larger.
He was, it seems, a smart killer who wanted to be known, but not captured.
Do I believe her?
Yes, maybe not entirely, and maybe not in the details, but on the whole, I think she was tormented, that should go without a doubt, and I think there’s a fair chance that RUB was Edward Wayne Edwards. The time frames seem to match up, but that is always thin soup for a hungry mind.
I don’t believe EWE was the boogeyman, that he killed hundreds of people over the span of sixty years, but some of them, some of them fit, some of them make sense, and when I took the time to untangle the eMails, to look at the individual elements, to wade through some of the shallows and the pass beyond the dead-ends, I find something very simple: this is a woman who was terrified, who literally feared for her life for decades, and now tells her story, because the man she believes was one of the worst human beings who ever lived no longer lives.
I’ve read her responses to other sites about Zodiac, about Edwards, and even JFK, and her story is sound, her delivery reasonable if not 100% clear, but mostly, it feels as if she is unpacking years of trauma wherever she can.
Was Edward Wayne Edwards Zodiac? It is possible. Was Ralph Ulysses Brickenshaw Edward Wayne Edwards? I honestly believe that he could have been, and that Margene knows he was.
The one unquestionable thing, Margene Morrison was tortured, and there are obviously underlying issues, but now she needs to speak, and there is likely something in her words we should listen to.
https://www.scribd.com/document/367615711/claimszodiac
By Margene Morrison
ReplyDeleteIn November 2015 I was reading on the internet and came across a picture. It was of Edward Wayne Edwards from the 1970's. I recognized him as Ralph Ulysses Brickenshaw, even noting that he had a mole on his left cheek. What I mostly remembered was his hairline then.
My father was a 32nd degree Mason and a union representative for the Carpenters in Charlotte, and that drew Edwards to us. My father went to a union meeting in San Francisco around 1971 at the height of Edwards’s Zodiac killings.
Edwards did do some work in Wilmington, NC. Edward Wayne Edwards was treated like a king here in North Carolina. At age nine my picture appeared in a full-page ad in one of the Charlotte newspapers. I think Edwards hated my father. I’m sure Edwards thought my father and my family were communists as well as Christians. And I celebrated my birthday on the day the FBI busted Edwards in 1962. He was hell-bent on dates so he considered me to be his Nemesis. And my name, Margene, was one letter off from the wife who left him when the FBI arrested him, Marlene.
Edwards was the Zodiac Killer. He attacked me in 1973. Edwards tried to frame my father for a murder committed near the Union Hall when Daddy wasn’t even in Charlotte. We moved away after Edwards did his infamous spray paint, DIE, on one of our fireplaces.
I saw him in his Zodiac costume twice. I didn't know about the Zodiac Killer in California then. I was a kid and then a teenager and by then the Zodiac Killer was some hippie stuff in CA to me. If he cut the slits bigger maybe he wouldn't have to wear glasses to see out. That is what I thought when I was 12. It still looks like he used an upside down grocery bag for a pattern. When I was about 15 we had moved and he found me again and almost drowned me. Then he found me again in 1982 before he went to prison for arson.
In 1982 I went to the FBI for help, and they told me he was an honorable man. Tell me one bank robber who was caught from the FBI's Most Wanted List and went to prison and got out in five years. Isn't the penalty 25 years?! Name one person on your suspect list that actually extracted thousands of dollars posing as a psychiatrist while serving as an FBI informant.
CONTINUED...
Edwards had been carrying government credentials. A man flashing government credentials really had been killing men, women, and children all over the country. It would really help me if the government seriously studied what Edwards did. Instead of trying to catch him, it seems they were using time and energy to prosecute a South Dakota man for buying Dinosaur bones within his financial means.
ReplyDeleteI met Professor Cutler once and he was very encouraging. Cutler and Larry Howard from Dallas AIC met with Gerry Hemming and Roy Hargraves in Wilmington, NC. Cutler believed in me. He said I wasn’t crazy; my brain was doing what it had to do to survive.
I bet I wrote thousands of letters. I contacted LE all over the country with phone calls. I think I went to the SBI in 1981 and I know I have been to the FBI in 2 states. I talked to many people in authority, and I think I covered ALL the important agencies.
Besides a sketch I drew of him, I wrote a ton of letters trying to get someone to stop him, especially around 1988 into the 1990’s. After a while I tried to accept that I was mentally ill or psychic. I was committed by the police because I called for help when my children and I were being threatened in 1989. After I got out I contacted the people who studied the Kennedy Assassination and met with them and we figured the Zodiac Killer was after me. The more I tried to get him stopped, the more he taunted me.
Edwards was connected to what is sometimes referred to as the "Good Old Boys." It was much too late for me when the FBI went in and destroyed their informant’s ID making equipment and the things in his black van. I was just a citizen. Have you ever had the feeling the government doesn’t care for citizens?
Edward Wayne Edwards was supposed to have left a safety deposit box. My guess is the government seized it so we will never know what was in it. The government is supposed to be liable for crimes he committed while on parole in 1967-1977.
I really do believe I knew Edwards under an alias and I've seen him, which is an understatement, at various times in my life. I believe that I was one of Edwards's victims that he left alive to identify him later.
I was trying to get the word out that there was a man carrying government credentials named Ralph Ulyesses Brickenshaw, and he was killing men, women, and children all over the country. I even drew a sketch of him. The people who would have come forward to say yes, that is what I told them, they've all passed away by now.
I just haven't been able to breathe well for a long time. If I could just snap out of it and forget him. Sometimes I wish I never even brought the subject up. He is just taking more time from my life.
More from Margene at:
https://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/beyond-the-gates
http://www.blinkatlanta.com/wayne-innocent-or-guilty/
http://booksareforsquares.blogspot.com/2012/04/dnf-metamorphosis-of-criminal-by-ed.html
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/zodiackillerfr/edward-wayne-edwards-like-no-other-t7818.html
http://www.lawyer-map.com/Whatley_Lynn_H__Whatley_and_Association_All_Law_Firms_in_Atlanta_Georgia_195098
https://www.facebook.com/JusticeforJaye/posts/518451824997955
http://zodiacrevisited.com/irresponsible-zodiac-killer-reporting/
http://blogs.baylor.edu/digitalcollections/2013/10/03/jfk-at-50_grassy_knoll_gazette/
http://thetroublewithjustice.com/2015/01/25/scott-peterson-was-not-entitled-to-a-perfect-trial-but-he-was-entitled-to-a-fair-one-he-received-neither/
https://www.crimetraveller.org/2016/11/scott-peterson-double-murder-death-row/
https://www.scribd.com/document/367615711/claimszodiac
Edwards was drawn to the media’s obsession with murder cases, and used this to his advantage; oftentimes the “victim” in Edwards’ killings was the person he set up for the murder, rather than the person he killed, according to Cameron.
ReplyDelete“He kept telling me that we didn’t know the entire story”, he continues. “The Zodiac set people up his entire life. That was the point Ed tried to make with me before he died. He set people up.”
Cameron explains that Edwards was a ritual killer, with his murders occurring on dates that tie to the occult, Catholic holidays, US holidays, and important dates in his life, such as his mother’s birthday and the day of her death.
“He was brilliant, had no conscience and was always inside the cops under assumed identity”, Cameron explains.
“When he got identified in 2010 as a serial killer, cops all over the USA recognised him. He had been an informant since 1950. That is why everyone has such a hard time with Ed. He fooled us all, and that is what the Zodiac Killer said he was doing. He laid all the pieces of the puzzle out to be solved by someone smarter then him.”
Which may be the crux of how he was able to avoid detection for so long — nobody likes being made a fool of.
“There is a lot of egg on high powered faces”, he notes, “and that is why everyone is trying to discredit Ed.”
Cameron believes he knows the truth. “The letters and puzzles were always the answer.”
http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/books-magazines/books/is-this-serial-killer-behind-some-of-the-worst-murders-of-our-time/news-story/44fe0617e602fce6a1b36e5922fc690c
Tim Spencer
ReplyDeletePosts 74
Old Newbie
June 1st, 2014, 11:28 am #241
Cameron and I were partners for over three years in investigating and writing the book on Edwards. Needless to say, it did not end well for me. I lost over $50,000 and all of my writing that he plagiarized. If there are any questions on the case, I would be happy to give my opinion.
Tim Spencer
Posts 74
Old Newbie
June 1st, 2014, 10:41 pm #254
the key player was frank dryman
I interviewed him at deer lodge prison with cameron
Tim Spencer
Posts 74
Old Newbie
June 3rd, 2014, 12:06 pm #258
here's the take-
I believe there is a possibility Edwards was the zodiac-I have many threads-but only that-certainly no proof -Dryman spent years in Deer Lodge-he told me they almost hung him on fri 13th on three occasions but something snafued it all 3 times at the last minute...
He said his vic picked him up hitchhiking and made a pass at him and dryman lost it and shot him, screaming you gay m.f. (outside the car) Note news article, 1 shot fired, missed, then several to the back.
Edwards goes to MSP (Deer Lodge) in March 1956, out in 1959-Dryman strutting aroung big shot murderer, big rep-but I felt he was a blowhard -I met and interviewed Bill Rose MSP who was there in 50's-convicted cop killer-that guy was serious-
Edwards is in for robbery, no one knows he's a killer and he's getting no respect from the other inmates-I think that's what pg 232 of his book is about-
Dryman was granted parole in Nov 1968 and he lists Vallejo as his proposed domicile for parole, to work as a cabinet maker for his brother-He flared visibly when we asked about this, and insisted-I DID NOT GO TO VALLEJO- I went to Pamida-
But the parole statement said he was to go to Vallejo-
Very coincindental with the Zodiac thread to Deer Lodge, the timing, the rope fire gun deal during the deer lodge riot in 1959-
and dryman is supposedly on his way to Vallejo-
So what was the first Zodiac hit? Farraday and Jensen-and she takes multiple questionable shots to the back-dec 1968-
But here's the catch-It was public knowledge that Dryman got his parole nov 68 to Vallejo-but he was not actually released from MSP until jan of 69-airtight alibi-he was in jail-
Edwards didn't have that info-I think if Edwards was the z, he was pissed and envious of Dryman in prison, and possibly was setting Dryman up to look like the perp-
just an idea.....
Tim Spencer
Posts 74
Old Newbie
June 3rd, 2014, 4:01 pm #263
This is my understanding from Cameron, and he was working for the Montana State Board of Pardons and Paroles and had access to all this info-
Dryman had a parole hearing and was granted parole in Nov. 0f 68-but the wheels of justice grind slowly and he wasn't cut loose until Jan of 69 per parole hearing-he was to report to Vallejo as a condition of his parole, but told us he actually went to Pamida (If I have the name correct) when released-In our interview, he acted like Mr. nice guy until this came up, at which time he angered as if we had hit a nerve. We just found the whole affair quite curious that public information had him released to Vallejo at this particular date (Nov 1969) and the Z connection to Deer Lodge-all very coincidental, which I don't believe in.
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/zodiackillerfr/edward-wayne-edwards-t4203-s240.html
CONTINUED...
Tim Spencer
ReplyDeletePosts 74
Old Newbie
June 18th, 2014, 12:24 pm #271
I am the Neal that Cameron refers to-He took my name out to steal the book. The reason I believe he killed his mother is that in 3 seperate examples (including his book) Edwards states that his mother died in Dec of 1935. Edwards dob 6/14/33. We found her death certificate documenting Aug 8. 1938. He killed at least twice on that anniverary date, so he was quite aware of when she died. So why did he repeatedly lie about how old he was when she died?
On the second question, Cameron's daughter was passing by the tv when C was watching paradise lost and commented, gee, that looks like Edwards-That's the entire basis of his "proof"
Tim Spencer
Posts 74
Old Newbie
June 18th, 2014, 9:46 pm #275
Neal is a mutual acquaintance that has some background in the Egyptian book of the dead-he came up with an arbitrary translation of the cryptos that have absolutely no mathmatical or linear basis-purely speculative and conjecture-that doesn't make them wrong, but there is no basis. C bit into the ideas head over heels screaming that they are the "proof" although admittedly he can't explain any if it. That was the extent of neal's involvment, but he did exchange communications with Edwards (Letters, phone calls). C does back off his enthusiasm a bit when he admits that Neal believes he is still to this day communicating with Edwards.......... C to avoid including my name in any of the trips, interviews, research and writings eliminated my name and substituted neals-neal actually apologized to me giving me full credit and told C to take all of that out-but surprise, he didn't.
One more point on my belief that E killed his mother, a woman usually doesn't commit suicide by shooting themselves in the stomach with a rifle and taking a week to die.
Tim Spencer
Posts 74
Old Newbie
June 19th, 2014, 8:15 pm #277
At the age of 5, Edwards had been living with his aunt for some time, having been told that she was his mother. When his real mother was released from prison and came home to the happy household nearing the end of the depression, sis said-"Time to step up to the plate and tell Ed that you are the real mom. I don't think Ed took it well. (He was actually Charles Murray to this date.)
CONTINUED...
Posts 74
ReplyDeleteOld Newbie
June 20th, 2014, 1:49 pm #279
I believe there is a very good probability that e was z. If you don't believe he killed way more than the 5 he confessed to, quit reading now.
he literally confessed to more in his letter to the ohio d.a., which I have a copy of.
imo, he killed 2 teens in gf 1956, and 2 in portland,1960. Guilty Guilty guilty!
So, we have a suspect that likes to kill teens on lover's lanes. How many of the other suspects can you say that? And Edwards screams through-out his life I DEMAND ATTENTION! So I think the entire m.o. fits perfectly.
Now-the facts-
Edwards was in Deer Lodge 1956-1959
The Robison family of 6 was murdered in Michigan July 1967. A demanding note was sent to the "press", published, and signed "Zodius".
Edwards relays a story in his book in 1972 that parallels the Robison tale, including the name, so I think he did it. The timing of the Zodius letter to the Mich press is way coincidental.
Now-the biggy-WHY did Z target S.F., and the 3 papers?
Again, Edwards relays a tale in his book of an extreme reluctance to return to S.F. with his new bride, Jeanette-let me interrupt here-
We interviewed her in 2011-she had not heard of or from Edwards since 1957-she was shocked that we found her and said law enforcement had never contacted her-and her opening statement was-QUOTE-HE LIKED KILLING PEOPLE_HE ENJOYED IT! When asked, she said she knew little or nothing about the Zodiac killer.
Anyway, E mentions the bay area, S.F., 1955, so google sensational, murder, bay area, 1955-and you will hit on the most spectacular case and trial of those times- Stephanie Byran -the press went wild-it sold papers! The times, the chronicle, and the examiner are all mentioned. Letters to the press, police and the judge-The suspect was seen on the highway to Mt. Diablo headlines. The final reporter to interview Burton Abbottt-Paul Avery. Edwards writes in the book a story about Laura, a student nurse-I'm sure he was talking about Stephanie Byran-Sadly, Burton Abbott was executed for the deed-He even looked like Edwards! Read Keith Walker's "A Trail of Corn" I could go on and on about further ties........
No one went back that far for a connection because of the time lapse-to Edwards, it was a blink. He was in Deer Lodge from 56-59-Portland jail in 60, Leavenworth 62-67, and then out.
On a final note, C and I never looked up a sensational case and then tried to tailor it to fit Edwards. The material and evidence that C found enabled us to create a timeline to document where Edwards was throughout his life-incredible-then we really looked at his book and when he mentioned, "I was here doing such and such at this date" We went to said time and date and archived the news and BAM-
In 1956, I was in Great Falls, New Years with my new wife-visiting her brother-BAM_ Kalitske/Bogle-unsolved double murder of two teens on a lover's lane
I was in Portland, Ore Thanksgiving 1960-Bam-Payton/Allen two teens on a lover's lane (There's way more proof on that one)
I was in the bay area 1955-Bam- Stephanie Bryan
I was released from Leavenworth 1967-Met Robison-cabin, playing cards-Bam-Robison family murder with note to the press
I met Verna 1955 in Idaho Falls then married Jeanette-the story is chilling in the book if you read between the lines-Verna was never heard of again-
CONTINUED...
The stories in the book go on and on-I think they were all about murders-Why would Edwards write a book? He was stroking himself every time he gave a speech, lecture, or book presentation-often to law enforement-
ReplyDeleteMy first copy of Metamorphosis of a Criminal was enscribed to a patrolman-"I hope you find this of some help in your work" I think he meant that literally
From there, I have dozens of if's, maybe, looks good, this fits, etc. Interesting that of all the good ones, I never came across one that disproved-like he was in jail at the time-every time we would find one, usually from the book, and, go figure-he was just released from jail two months earlier and happened to be in the area.
Proof? Cameron is so far out of line it literally makes me sick-we have nothing-what really makes me sad is that he took a really good story with a lot of potential and TOTALLY trashed it. I encountered intersections with my own life and family that would make your hair stand on end-
Thanks for reading if you made it this far- tim
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/zodiackillerfr/edward-wayne-edwards-t4203-s270.html
Tim Spencer
Posts 74
Old Newbie
June 1st, 2014, 10:36 pm #18
black dahlia-jan 47 edwards d.o.b. june 14, 1933
I discovered at the end of website b.d.s.org under q&a, author of site stated "I was 13 1/2 at the time of the b.d. murder-
at least the math works.........
Tim Spencer
Posts 74
Old Newbie
June 1st, 2014, 11:07 pm #21
Tracers-
I am going to start opening up about Cameron-To protect myself, if it helps, everything I state is simply MY OPINION-can I get sued for that?
I wrote the book that Cameron takes full credit for starting from the first page about the detective sitting at his desk playing with an orange nerfball. Cameron even asked me at the time, "How did you know I had a nerf hoop in my office?"
He then did I.M.O. a horrible rewrite of most of the book, plagiarizing my work at maybe 10-20%. Our original signed contract written by Cameron said after one year of payments, the rights and reproduction of all aspects of the case would belong to me. I payed for 2 1/2 years and when the book was near publication he used an obscure line in the contract, twisted it, and said I was entitled to nothing. He removed my name from everything, so when you read about Neal, it was usually me. i.e. trips to Idaho, interviews, etc. Neil did partake in providing a very liberal and speculative interpretations of the cryptograms that Cameron went goo-goo gaa gaa over and could offer no explaination what-so-ever of how they worked. I have taken the entire ordeal very hard but there is nothing I can do about it. My lawyers say an extended law suit could take years, cost over $100,000, and what can I win? Cameron hasn't got 2 nickles, that's why he got me to finance everything. So, everything I will say in the future will deal with Edwards, which is a facinating subject, and I know more than most.
CONTINUED...
TomVoigt
ReplyDeletePosts 9,595
Site Owner
June 1st, 2014, 11:18 pm #22
Everyone, I met Tim here in Portland a few years ago and he's a very nice man.
Tim, please let me know if there's any way I can help.
Tim Spencer
Posts 74
Old Newbie
June 2nd, 2014, 12:01 am #23
So, let me tell you about Edwards and hold on to your hats and form your own opinions. The most amazing part of the story is that he wrote and published an autobiograpy in 1972, so I'd like to keep up only to that date for awhile. My first question I would like all of you to give some serious thought to is, why did he write a book? He never kept an honest job, I don't believe he wrote it for fame or fortune, there are a lot of ex-criminal's stories way more interesting than his. The book is a lousy read. The first copy of the book that I obtained was inscribed by Edwards to a police officer, Carver, saying "I hope you find this book of some help in your work". After 3 years of researching and getting a "feel" for Edwards, I honestly believe that most of the chapters are a veiled description of different murders. The dates and a few details are sometimes changed, but for the most part, they are pretty darned close. This is what brought the case to Cameron in the first place. On page 205, Edwards relays about traveling to Great Falls (for those of you who don't know, Cameron and I both live in Great Falls) with his new wife around New Years, 1956. He was busted for robbery in Billings in March of said year and his prison admission statement puts him in Great Falls at the beginning of Jan.
So, guess what is the oldest unsolved double homicide on the books for Montana? Patty Kalitske and Duane Bogle were slain execution style on a "lover's lane" after last being seen at the teen drive-inn restaurant- New Years Day 1956. No robbery, no motive, no suspects.
And Edwards puts in his book he was there at the time, but he doesn't mention any murders.
Despite my extremely harsh feelings, I will credit Cameron is a superb investigator, too bad he didn't stop there.
So over the next three years Cameron and I finally figured out there is more to the book than we ever dreamed. We did NOT go out, start turning over rocks and tried to tailor them to Edwards. We simply studied the book, went to the time and place he would discuss an "event" and then checked the archives of the local area paper and BAM-HEADLINES-another murder. Portland Ore-Thanksgiving 1960-Payton /Allen-two teens on a lover's lane executed-and Edwards tells all about it in his book-including being seen at the crime scene the next day. He doesn't mention he got picked up for pulling false fire alarms and broke out of jail a few days later with a fresh unexplained bullit hole in his arm. (There was a fresh hole in the vic's car windshield, too.)
Back to the question why write a book? I believe he did so to flaunt his murders to the world and laugh that we were all to stupid to figure it out and I'll bet he loved every second of his tours and speeches to law enforcement and young teens across the U.S. Cameron found an article that he spoke at a church camp in Penn. and I matched the dates that exactly one week later he killed two teens on a lover's lane in Wisc. Aug 8, 1977. (He confessed and was convicted for this one.)
Enough for now-I will go to my grave believing Edwards killed-two teens in Wisc., two teens in Ohio, his stepson-these five he confessed to,
Payton/Allen in Portland 1960, Kalitke/Bogle Gt Flls 1956 and his own mother at the age of 5 in 1938 (Another story). I'm pretty sure I could convince you, too. So.........who else did he kill? I have a lot of ideas.
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/zodiackillerfr/zodiac-theory-on-coast-to-coast-last-night-t7230.html
CONTINUED...
Tim Spencer
ReplyDeletePosts 74
Old Newbie
June 2nd, 2014, 2:31 am #27
hey biz-
Neil came up with some obscure after the fact theories on the cryptos that Cameron fell wildly in love with-no basis for any of it-same with the 13 letter my name is-after the fact gibberish-take it for what it's worth- I might note that author of "this is the zodiac speaking" mike kelleher was quite taken with the ideas when we met up, but again there is no linear basis to any of it-pure speculation-who know's, could be something, I don't believe in any of it. On second issue, we contacted the web server on bds site and he refused to give any info on author without a court order. Tracers, I haven't heard the interview, I get violently ill when I hear C's voice-in fact, I have taken to calling him "He who can't be named"-but just like him to take credit for neal's ideas. He also posted a letter from Edwards showing neal's address quite clearly in the book, despite assuring neal he would remove it before publishing-I don't believe the two are still speaking. The cryptos were the extent of neal's involvement in the whole deal. Biz-I can probably answer most of the billion....
Tim Spencer
Posts 74
Old Newbie
June 2nd, 2014, 3:28 pm #33
hey Doog-
The jury is still out for me on jbr, but I would like to comment on the open window-We traveled to Boulder, interviewed Steve Ainsworth-I respect him alot-snooped around-drive by the house etc.
If my info is correct, jbr had some undigested pineapple in her stomach, indicating it was eaten shortly before death. Second, a flashlite was discovered on the counter and no one knows where it came from-best guess some cop left it and never came forward. Sounds a little lame, but.......Edwards goes on in his book about signaling his wife from inside the prison at nite and communicating by dots and dashes.
IF Edwards did do the child, I would speculate he signaled from the yard with a flashlite to come down and let him in, ate pineapple in the kitchen together and he whacked her. How did he gain her trust? Perhaps posing as santa. It's fairly well documented that jbr had a friend whose mother heard jbr stating santa was going to pay her a visit the nite of the 25th, murder nite.
The mom explained to her, no, santa comes the nite of the 24th and jbr responded, no, I'm getting a special visit from santa xmas day nite, he told me!
All speculative, I agree, but I believe the basement window deal was a red herring.
Final note, the reason he who can't be named jumped on the jbr deal, he asked Edwards' wife where was ed xmas of 1996 and she replied. "He was hiding out in Brighton, Colorado with my son waiting the the smoke to clear in the murder of his stepson, Dannie boy." Brighton is just a short distance from Boulder.
Tim Spencer
Posts 74
Old Newbie
June 2nd, 2014, 3:55 pm #36
Hey Tom, Howdy!
I have lots I could add, but I'd like to comment on just 1 issue-motive. I think motive is the strongest link to Edwards-it screams of someone like him. I think Edwards was telling us that, on page 28 of his book to quote-(he was referring to pulling fire alarms)
" I love to watch fire trucks and hear the sirens. But most of all, I loved seeing the confusion and the crowds because it meant that, indirectly, I was being noticed, since it was I who had caused all the hubbub. The more the crowd discussed me, the more I turned in false alarms. They were stoking the fires of my desire for attention." just substitute murder for alarm
Coincidently, when I searched the local papers around the time of the 1956 G.F. murders, there was a front page plea by our firechief begging whoever was pulling the fake fire alarms to please stop. Edwards was also arrested in Portland for pulling alarms at the time of the Peyton / Allen murders 1960
Was Edward Wayne Edwards the Zodiac Killer?
ReplyDeleteExclusive to Zodiackiller.com
April 21, 2011
By Tom Voigt, Zodiackiller.com Webmaster
Portland, Ore. -- A couple of days ago, Angie and I met with retired detective John Cameron of Great Falls, Mont. Along with Cameron was Tim Spencer, a fellow Great Falls resident and Ed Edwards researcher. Earlier in the day, the two had spent a couple of hours discussing their findings with Zodiac expert Mike Kelleher and his wife, Cindy. (The Kellehers live somewhere in the remote mountains here in the Pacific Northwest.)
We met at Club 21, our favorite Portland dive bar located just a brief walk from where we live. Shortly before leaving, I had e-mailed Mike and asked, "How painful was it?" I always expect the worst when meeting with people in person about their Zodiac theory, because when it starts to go south -- which it usually does -- I feel trapped. But Mike e-mailed me right back and put my mind at ease. "Interesting and serious folks. Better than your average Zodiac chaser," he wrote. Phew!
Cameron had told me to look for "a bald guy and a guy with gray hair." I spotted them quickly upon entering the club; they were seated in the small, slightly elevated section that serves as the stage on heavy metal night. For now, though, the area just had poker machines and a few tables and chairs (in addition to a bald guy and a guy with gray hair).
I was wearing a sticker on my hoodie that said "My name is...ZODIAC."
Yeah, weird stuff sometimes takes place at Club 21.
(Club 21 is tiny and resembles a hobbit house. It was built about a hundred years ago. Originally a Russian church, in the 1940s it became a steak house and a few years later, a bar. My grandmother played piano there in the 1950s.)
Cameron had a tab going, so Angie and I quickly ordered a couple pints of Mirror Pond. Spencer was drinking soda, while Cameron had a glass of what appeared to be mop water (but probably Coors Lite). We made a very brief amount of small talk, but quickly jumped into the Zodiac stuff. Who could have guessed?
After explaining how he became to suspect Edwards was the Zodiac killer, Cameron broke out a portfolio full of research material. Spencer also contributed his own discoveries, and on Cameron's laptop we even watched the full version of Edwards' 1972 appearance on the game show "To Tell The Truth." Actor Alan Alda was one of the show's panelists and of everyone on that show, the only one still alive. (Edwards just died within the last month.)
Angie and I asked many questions, and we both came away feeling the answers we received were at least honest and straightforward, if not convincing. After a couple of hours and a few pints, we said good night and shook hands. Kelleher had been right about Cameron and Spencer, and I'm glad we got together.
There were a few compelling tidbits between Edwards and Zodiac that I'd like to see explored further, but I don't want to steal anyone's thunder by revealing them here. Maybe Cameron will join the message board eventually and clue everyone in.
http://www.zodiackiller.com/EWE.html
UNSOLVED | A JOURNAL SENTINEL WATCHDOG REPORT (Excerpt)
ReplyDeleteBy Gina Barton, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
Oct. 18, 2017
In May 1988, a man named John Simon provided police with the first lead they’d gotten in any of those cases in years.
Simon, who worked on a Jefferson County farm, went to the sheriff’s department to pick up a copy of an accident report. While he was there, he told a detective about some disconcerting memories of a man he once knew.
Simon suspected the man could be involved in the murders of Hack and Drew — and perhaps others.
Simon knew the man as Wayne Edwards, but that turned out to be one of many aliases used by the not-so-former criminal. His real name was Edward Wayne Edwards.
Simon described Edwards as a wife beater, a child abuser, a con artist and a drifter.
He drove a dark green van with a .357 pistol stashed under the seat.
The two men met in late summer 1980, when Edwards and his family rented a house on the farmland where Simon worked.
He told some weird stories about lovers he’d seen on the property, Simon told the detective. One time he caught a couple making out on the bridge over by the back 40. He put a gun to the guy’s head and told them to get the hell off the property.
Edwards often dressed in military gear and told Simon he’d been working security at the Concord House the night Hack and Drew went missing.
He had helped Simon move farm machinery past the site where the couple’s bodies were found, so he was familiar with the area.
Simon recalled a day in 1980 — he was almost sure it was the weekend the young couple disappeared — when Edwards’ face got smashed in. It was so bad another guy had to take him to the hospital.
When Simon asked what happened, Edwards gave an explanation that sounded like an excuse. He said he’d been trying to poach a deer to feed his family when his rifle kicked and the scope hit him in the eye.
And there was one more thing.
Immediately after the couple’s bodies were found, Edwards and his family packed up and left town, leaving no explanation and no forwarding address.
Simon hadn’t heard from him in the eight years since.
Jefferson County sheriff’s deputies followed up on Simon’s information by checking hospital records.
They found documentation of a patient named Wayne Edwards being treated for a broken nose, but not on the day Hack and Drew went missing.
Still, the investigators tried to track him down. They discovered the birth date he gave at the hospital matched a Georgia man named Douglas Wayne Edwards.
The trail stopped there.
https://projects.jsonline.com/topics/unsolved/chapter-8-ill-see-her-in-heaven.html
Did Richard Robison wear a Zodiac watch at the time he was murdered? Was this watch found on his body? If he did and it was never found, did his murderer take it and then start killing in the Zodiac?
ReplyDelete[–]TeRauparaha
I'm pretty certain everyone is aware of the Zodiac-watch connection. I would like to know if LE were able to pull any DNA off the Timex watch found at the Riverside crime scene? That is crucial evidence IMO.
[–]TessaIsCold
Holy cow. I think you've stumbled onto something that the police have never thought of. Are you implying that there was a watch called Zodiac and the killer might have gotten his name from it?
This could change every thing. Somebody pull up a list of all the people who owned a "Zodiac" watch between 1965-1970. Then eliminate the women, elderly and children, narrow it down to white guys between the ages of 20-45, stocky builds. That would probably bring us down to maybe 8 or 9 people? From that small of a list, it should be easy to narrow down who the Zodiac Killer really was.
Blessed to say "I was there" when the beginning of the end came on this case.
[–]seekingtruthforgood
This watch is interesting, and it seems like the most obvious source for his selection of his name and use of the crosshair symbol in his letters/ciphers. The watch also displays the numbers 3, 6, 9, and 12. It makes me wonder whether these numbers are connected to the unsolved cipher. Was he using an early form of encryption, and does the watch represent the math for solving his 340 cipher?
[–]waffenwolf
I have always wondered what made Z chose the same name and symbol of this watch company.
Have the Zodiac company ever commented on the connection? I am sure Z has contributed somewhat to their sales revenue also. Specially when the books and films came out.
[–]MaxB78
I own three zodiac watches. Each model is identified by a serial which start with ZO followed by four numbers, for example ZO4632. I always thought that the serial of the watch could provide some useful information.
[–]TessaIsCold
Zodiac watches weren't the only use of the word Zodiac though.
I believe zodiac boats were around back then. Probably others as well.
Plus you have the astrology angle.
Maybe he just thought it sounded like a cool name?
[–]aDturlapati
Yeah honestly, if I was a serial killer, which I am not, really, i wouldn't base my name off a a brand watch or any branded product that i own. That'd be like me naming my self samsung chromebook pro.
[–]brunicus
Possible he picked the name first and then stumbled upon the watch and it’s logo, reminded him of gun sights. Probably will never really know, he’s probably dead.
[–]kschappert
Definitely possible, who knows? I have always thought he modeled himself after the character in the book mentioned in the 408--Zaroff-and took the same first initial.
[–]waffenwolf
But it’s not just the watch name it’s the watch logo he used also.
https://old.reddit.com/r/ZodiacKiller/comments/cpuauf/a_clue/
It Was Always ME! Edward Edwards – The Most Prolific Serial Killer of All Time (eBook)
ReplyDelete$9.99
“It Was Always ME!” – The expanded second edition of the breakthrough true crime book, “It’s ME!” explores previously unreleased evidence that adds yet another nail into Edwards’ coffin. Veteran cold case detective John A. Cameron returns with a stack of brand new case files in the riveting new edition of this game-changing book
https://www.itwasalwaysme.com/product/it-was-always-me-ebook/
You Never Knew - ReelTime VR
John A. Cameron's book "It's ME!" snowballed from a letter landing on his desk, to a 6 part Docu-Series on the Paramount Network 7 years later.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXx0b3f1EYU&list=PL_kURPzd3G6ICS1KJ0iVukP6kPt1aB4xJ