CASO investigator John Dedering, far right, behind Steven Avery
CASO DETECTIVE DEDERING'S REPORT OF CONTACT WITH RACHEL ON NOVEMBER 4, 2005
The following is investigator John Dedering's report of his phone conversation with Rachel of AutoTrader after she called the Calumet County Sheriff's Office (CASO) about a rumor she overhead.
Page 38
TYPE OF ACTIVITY: Contact with Rachel J. Haggs
DATE OF ACTIVITY: 11/04/05
REPORTING OFFICER: Inv. John Dedering
DOCUMENTS GENERATED: None
On Friday, 11/04/05 at 1100 hrs., Captain PAUL RUSCH brought me information regarding a phone call he had taken from RACHEL HAGGS who was employed with AUTO TRADER. I did call the phone number for AUTO TRADER (414-425-8675) and did speak with the following individual:
RACHEL J. HAGGS
DOB 11/24/85
190 W. Allerton Ave.
Milwaukee, WI 53207
Cell No. 262-391-2074
Ms. HAGGS advised me that someone named DAWN who works at AUTO TRADER stated she had overheard that STEVEN AVERY had called on yesterday's date (11/03/05) between 4:30 and 5:00 p.m. approximately, because STEVEN needed to reschedule the appointment with the photographer. STEVEN indicated that the photographer had not made the scheduled meeting on Monday, 10/31/05.
According to RACHEL, STEVEN indicated that the photographer (TERESA HALBACH) had called and indicated that she could not make the Monday appointment.
According to RACHEL, there is a record for an appointment with JANDA on the 31st of October. RACHEL went on to indicate that STEVEN stated TERESA had contacted him on Monday about this matter.
RACHEL indicated that a subject named SCOTT had called STEVEN regarding TERESA HALBACH and, apparently, was under the impression STEVEN was not happy about "being accused of stuff."
RACHEL went on to indicate that she had learned STEVEN AVERY had made inappropriate comments to TERESA in the past and further had come out of the house on a previous occasion wearing only a towel.
Investigation continues.
DCI AGENT MCGRATH'S REPORT OF CONTACT WITH RACHEL ON DECEMBER 1, 2005
The following excerpt is from an attachment to Kathleen Zellner's PCR petition. It is a report of DCI agent Neil McGrath's interview with Rachel of Auto Trader Magazine on December 1, 2005.
On Thursday 12/01/2005, Special Agent McGrath went to the Auto Trader Magazine office located at Hales Corners. S/A McGrath had previously arranged an appointment with Office Manager Angie Schuster. S/A McGrath arrived at Auto Trader at approximately 3:45 p.m.
Upon arriving at the Auto Trader Magazine office S/A McGrath interviewed Rachel [blacked out]. Rachel stated that she had been working at Auto Trader magazine for approximately six to seven months and was a Production/Customer Service Representative. Rachel recalled speaking with an individual who identified himself as Steve Avery on approximately Thursday 11/03/2005. Rachel stated that earlier on that same day Teresa Halbach's mother had contacted the Auto Trader Magazine office and was concerned about Halbach's whereabouts. Avery called the office approximately two hours after Halbach's mother, possibly between 3:00 p.m. and 4:30 p.m. Avery told Rachel that he had an appointment of a van and a truck to be photographed on 10/31/2005, however he had contacted Halbach on that day to see if she was still coming and she told him that she was heading in a different direction. Avery told Rachel that Halbach instructed him to contact the office to reschedule the appointment. Avery also told Rachel that he had been contacted by a male individual who identified himself as Teresa Halbach's roommate. This individual told Avery that he knew Halbach had been to his residence to take photographs and that they believed Avery had done something to Halbach. Avery stated that he did not appreciate being accused by this person. Avery had the number of this individual on caller I.D. and told Rachel he would call her back with this number. Avery stated that he did not appreciate being accused by this person. Rachel stated she looked on the computer and did not see a record of Steven Avery having an appointment and stated that she would look into it.
Approximately five to ten minutes later, Avery re-contacted Rachel at Auto Trader Magazine and gave her the number of the individual who had called. Rachel state that she wrote the number down on a Post-It note and contacted Calumet county at a later time asking for the person in charge of the Teresa Halbach investigation. This individual had to call Rachel back because the individual was on the phone at the time. Rachel stated she gave the investigator who called her the information about Avery calling her.
Rachel stated this contact was the first she believed she spoke with Steve Avery on the phone. Rachel is aware who Steven Avery was because Halbach had mentioned to Rachel on the telephone that Avery was "creey." Halbach had told Rachel that on at least two occasions when Halbach arrived at the Avery property to shoot photographs of vehicles, Avery came out of his residence dressed only in a bath towel. Halbach joked with Rachel that Avery was not the type of person you wanted to see dressed in only a towel. Halbach had also mentioned to Rachel that Avery had showed her some kind of display having to do with females that was posted on his wall. This display was of pictures or names and phone numbers of females, possibly Avery's girlfriends. Avery said to Halbach in a confident manner that some day she would be up on the wall as well. Rachel did not believe Halbach was alarmed by this comment, however thought it was strange. Rachel did not get the indication that Halbach viewed Avery as more of a harmless old man who was "a little out there." Rachel has only spoken with Halbach by telephone and had never met her in person, however, felt she knew Halbach well from frequent conversations.
FORMER AUTOTRADER EMPLOYEE RACHEL'S STORIES
Why did Rachel's story change on December 1st, nearly a month after she contacted the Calumet County Sheriff's Office (CASO)?
In her initial interview with Dedering (when Rachel called CASO to report on rumors she had heard), Rachel said she was told about a phone call that Dawn overheard. A month later, she told McGrath that she was the person who took the call. She went from spreading gossip to being a witness.
Dawn didn't mention anything about overhearing this call earlier in the day when Wiegert interviewed her by phone on the evening of November 3 (CASO page 20). If Avery had called earlier that day, she would have told Wiegert.
The first story by Rachel sounds like gossip; the second sounds like she wants to get involved with the trial.
Basically, there are two problems with Rachel's stories (other than the fact she told two versions of the same story), which is probably why Rachel's statements were not used at trial. There is the obvious hearsay -- she is reporting what someone else said they overheard. Then there is the fact it is a phone call. If the person taking the call recognized it as Avery's voice, perhaps it would be admissible. But if the person is not familiar with Avery's voice and could not identify the voice on the phone as such, then it would be inadmissible because the witness cannot say for sure it was Avery who called.
If Avery had made the call, special prosecutor Ken Kratz would have presented evidence of this at trial, but he didn't.
Avery did not call AutoTrader on November 3, 2005, according to his phone records.
In Zellner's The Steven Avery Proof of Guilt Challenge, she said: "Scott Bloedorn called Steven Speckman (the "Steve in Sheboygan on Teresa's day planner for 10/31), not Steven Avery, on 11/3 at 4:10 p.m." (Zellner also said in The Steven Avery Proof of Guilt Challenge that Teresa had appointments in Sheboygan on the morning of 10/31).
Additionally, according to Zellner: "Steven Avery never spoke with Teresa's roommate, Scott Bloedorn, on November 3, 2005 or any other day. Law enforcement investigated these allegations and determined they were false."
Dawn didn't mention anything about overhearing this call earlier in the day when Wiegert interviewed her by phone on the evening of November 3 (CASO page 20). If Avery had called earlier that day, she would have told Wiegert.
The first story by Rachel sounds like gossip; the second sounds like she wants to get involved with the trial.
Basically, there are two problems with Rachel's stories (other than the fact she told two versions of the same story), which is probably why Rachel's statements were not used at trial. There is the obvious hearsay -- she is reporting what someone else said they overheard. Then there is the fact it is a phone call. If the person taking the call recognized it as Avery's voice, perhaps it would be admissible. But if the person is not familiar with Avery's voice and could not identify the voice on the phone as such, then it would be inadmissible because the witness cannot say for sure it was Avery who called.
If Avery had made the call, special prosecutor Ken Kratz would have presented evidence of this at trial, but he didn't.
Avery did not call AutoTrader on November 3, 2005, according to his phone records.
In Zellner's The Steven Avery Proof of Guilt Challenge, she said: "Scott Bloedorn called Steven Speckman (the "Steve in Sheboygan on Teresa's day planner for 10/31), not Steven Avery, on 11/3 at 4:10 p.m." (Zellner also said in The Steven Avery Proof of Guilt Challenge that Teresa had appointments in Sheboygan on the morning of 10/31).
Additionally, according to Zellner: "Steven Avery never spoke with Teresa's roommate, Scott Bloedorn, on November 3, 2005 or any other day. Law enforcement investigated these allegations and determined they were false."
Rachel was not called to testify, so it must have been clear to the prosecution that they could not use her statements. It was also clear to the prosecution that whoever called AutoTrader on November 3 to complain about Scott Bloedorn would be very important to their investigation, and law enforcement knew this because they questioned George Zipperer about this phone call.
Rachel's statements are inadmissible as hearsay but in the court of public opinion reports of this call would go a long way toward convincing people that Avery is guilty.
In books written by Michael Greisbach and Ken Kratz, they perpetuated the lie started by Rachel that Steven Avery called AutoTrader on November 3 and said Teresa Halbach never made it to Avery Auto Salvage on October 31, 2005.
In Greisbach's book he wrote: "On November 3, Avery called Auto Trader and told them that the photographer had not made the scheduled appointment at the salvage yard on October 31. He said Halbach notified him by phone that she wouldn't be able to make it after all."
On page 163 of Kratz's book he wrote: "Steven (Avery) tells Scott Bloedorn, Teresa's roommate, that Teresa 'never showed up' for her appointment on Oct. 31 and is upset that he was even contacted in connection with the disappearance."
Kathleen Zellner, Avery's post-conviction counsel, identified 13 falsehoods in Kratz's book. She told Patch in July 2011: "We're consulting with defamation experts about the viability of a legal claim against Kratz. He has no absolute immunity. This guy is off the case, and he's still running around committing defamation against Steven Avery, essentially trying him in the press with even more false evidence, which is what he did the first time with his false (2006 pre-trial) press conference statements."
There are no public records for a Rachel Haggs or a Rachel Hagg but there are public records for four people named Rachel Haag in Wisconsin. Rachel K. Haag (34 years old), Rachel Ann Haag (38 years old, born 1/1/1979), Rachel R. Hagg (38 years old), and Rachel Marie Haag (60 years old).
None of the four people named Rachel Haag in Wisconsin were born in 1985 (Dedering reported Rachel's birth date as 11/24/1985, which would make her 32 years old as of October 2017).
INVESTIGATIVE REPORTS
Rachel's statements are inadmissible as hearsay but in the court of public opinion reports of this call would go a long way toward convincing people that Avery is guilty.
In books written by Michael Greisbach and Ken Kratz, they perpetuated the lie started by Rachel that Steven Avery called AutoTrader on November 3 and said Teresa Halbach never made it to Avery Auto Salvage on October 31, 2005.
In Greisbach's book he wrote: "On November 3, Avery called Auto Trader and told them that the photographer had not made the scheduled appointment at the salvage yard on October 31. He said Halbach notified him by phone that she wouldn't be able to make it after all."
On page 163 of Kratz's book he wrote: "Steven (Avery) tells Scott Bloedorn, Teresa's roommate, that Teresa 'never showed up' for her appointment on Oct. 31 and is upset that he was even contacted in connection with the disappearance."
Kathleen Zellner, Avery's post-conviction counsel, identified 13 falsehoods in Kratz's book. She told Patch in July 2011: "We're consulting with defamation experts about the viability of a legal claim against Kratz. He has no absolute immunity. This guy is off the case, and he's still running around committing defamation against Steven Avery, essentially trying him in the press with even more false evidence, which is what he did the first time with his false (2006 pre-trial) press conference statements."
IS FORMER AUTOTRADER EMPLOYEE RACHEL'S NAME ACTUALLY RACHEL ANN HAAG AND NOT RACHEL J. HAGGS?Answer me this...how can anyone's statement of "he said she never showed up" have any merit, when Avery was doing television interviews on Nov. 4th (before Bobby "buggered up that plan")?— TickTockManitowoc (@TManitowoc) February 8, 2018
There are no public records for a Rachel Haggs or a Rachel Hagg but there are public records for four people named Rachel Haag in Wisconsin. Rachel K. Haag (34 years old), Rachel Ann Haag (38 years old, born 1/1/1979), Rachel R. Hagg (38 years old), and Rachel Marie Haag (60 years old).
None of the four people named Rachel Haag in Wisconsin were born in 1985 (Dedering reported Rachel's birth date as 11/24/1985, which would make her 32 years old as of October 2017).
INVESTIGATIVE REPORTS
The following is McGrath's DCI report for his November 6, 2005 activity. It is an example of proper official documentation of an investigation, unlike the reports that were filed by CASO. However, it should be noted that the report was edited by McGrath's supervisor on November 30, 2005, just before it was turned over to Fassbender and received into evidence by Ken Kratz.
The suspicion is that investigative reports were falsified to fit the narrative.
Why does the big file of CASO investigative reports look like somebody copied all the reports into a Word document?
If all the CASO reports were copied into one big Word document, what would have prevented someone from editing the file to change one or more of the reports?
Shouldn't each CASO report have the date the report was written and the date the report was last edited (and by whom), like the DCI reports?
None of the CASO reports include the date they were prepared, only the "date of activity" that they are reporting on. It would be helpful to know how much time had elapsed between the event or activity and the date the report was written (there really should be an audit trail for LE report writing).
Were all the deputies/detectives/investigators with CASO told to copy their reports onto CD so that they could be given to Kratz in electronic format? Did Kratz then copy and paste the reports into a Word file and edit them to fit his narrative?
Who would have stopped Kratz from doing this? He had prosecutorial immunity. He had free rein.
From Kratz's email dated November 9, 2009 to Potter regarding Kratz's sex scandal:
"I further assume that you would be too 'embarrassed' by my continued involvement in assisting DOJ in the Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey post-conviction matters -- I want to hear you ask me to step aside from those duties as well, and make sure that Roy is ready to appoint additional resources to assist Tom Fallon in the conclusion of this mamouth prosecution."
Guilters. You love projects to show SA is guilty...do me a favor. Find one single solitary document that TH told anyone that "Steven Avery" was who answered the door in a towel. Anything where she said those words to anyone. Thanks. Good luck, you'll need it. #missionimpossible— TickTockManitowoc (@TManitowoc) November 8, 2017
MnAtty wrote at TickTockManitowoc:
I think I have figured out where much of this confusion
comes from. What it comes down to, is people don't listen.
I've always had a knack for language. When somebody's
scribbles at the office are unreadable, they bring it to me. I also hear really
well, like when someone has a foreign accent or other speaking problem.
Many months back, I listened to a recording of Steven Avery being
interviewed, and this is where he supposedly denied there was a fire. However,
I listened to the entire interview, and I didn't misunderstand Avery at all. He
did not lie about anything.
There are a couple of complicating factors. First, these
Keystone Cops keep using the same technique of trying to introduce confusion
into the conversation. Their intended goal is to trip the interviewee up.
Instead though, when you listen back to the interviewer, they are jumping all
over the place and making the conversation very mixed up.
I think this may even be a lazy version of doing their job.
They just make the conversation as confusing as possible, and then later make
assertions about what was said that are entirely inaccurate. Instead of getting
legitimate admissions, they just assert in their report later that such
admissions occurred.
And this system seemed to work pretty well. Records created
in the regular course of business always have a particularly high value as
evidence. These Sheriff's employees used their records as a new layer of proof
of what was said, and most people then just take their word for it. However,
when you go back to the original interviews, the investigators' claims just
don't pan out.
You're almost better off staying out of discussions with
people intent on believing SA is guilty. They have embraced these second-hand
records as gospel, and you're never going to convince them otherwise. They have
zero competence themselves as police investigators because they're actually
just people trying to learn about a case using the Internet. At least I have
some actual experience with this kind of work, so I understand more of what's
going on. But you're never going to win an argument with someone who has become
so obtuse about the facts and who has developed such an inflated opinion of
their own expertise.
Luckily, people don't go to jail based on third-hand gossip.
Of course, in SA's case, much of it isn't much better than third-hand gossip.
He really got a raw deal.
I watched that Star Trek episode recently, where the line comes up, "evil seeks to maintain power by suppressing the truth or by misleading the innocent." It made me think of guilters. You have a main group that know they're lying, and maybe a subgroup of followers who either don't have the time or don't have the ability to think for themselves.
I watched that Star Trek episode recently, where the line comes up, "evil seeks to maintain power by suppressing the truth or by misleading the innocent." It made me think of guilters. You have a main group that know they're lying, and maybe a subgroup of followers who either don't have the time or don't have the ability to think for themselves.
CaseFilesReviewer wrote at TickTockManitowoc:
The CASO report is the result of a pre-trial conference with MTSO on June 26, 2006 (MTSO report, page 16).
In other words, the CASO reports are prepped, so I don't bother with them much.
Colborn wrote his 11/3/2005 report of activity on 6/29/2006, after the pre-trial conference with CASO.
The contents of the George Zipperer voicemail were reported in the MTSO reports for 11/3/2005, long before the CASO revision as result of the pre-trial conference on 6/29/06, which resulted in a different version in CASO.
The police seemed to have changed their “narrative” as result of the 6/29/06 pre-trial meeting (MTSO Summary Report, page 16 of 17, paragraph 17).
It was reported on 11/03/05 that the message Teresa left at Zipperer’s was seeking directions (page 4 of 17, paragraph 6). On 11/5/05 the detectives discussed amongst themselves that Teresa went from Steven Schmitz's to Steven Avery's (audio at 2:05). Yet, in the CASO report, which seems to have been created as result of the pre-trial meeting, a different message detail was reported (page 18 paragraph 5). Additionally, it was reported that the 2:27 call was the last phone activity when in reality it was the 2:41 call (page 3 paragraph 2). It was reported that the call with Schmitz was at approximately 1:10 when in reality it was ten to one or 12:51 (page 6 paragraph 3). Andy Colborn seemed to slip with his “2:00 or 2:30” (TT D7/P76/L18-20): I suspect he meant to say “3:00” to match his 6/29/06 reporting of his 11/3/05 activity (page 17 of 17 paragraph 1). “Between 2:00 and 2:30” matches the 11/5/05 discussion (audio at 2:10).
The MTSO Investigative Report, MTSO Global Subject Report, and MTSO dispatch log (audio) show raw data time stamped by a system of record that can't be changed by officers.
It shows:
11/03/2005 18:35 - Avery was entered as the suspect of "HOMICIDE NON-NEGLIGENT."
11/03/2005 18:35 - Avery was entered as the suspect of "HOMICIDE NON-NEGLIGENT."
11/03/2005 18:37 - Teresa Halbach is reported missing to the MTSO's Dispatch.
11/03/2005 18:51 - Dispatch alerts all units of Teresa Halbach being a missing person.
On 11/03/2005, when Teresa was only reported missing, only her murderer would/should have known it was a "HOMICIDE."
Those systems should have been subpoenaed long ago, since a "system of record" logs whoever made the entry, and that person has a lot of explaining to do, especially since the evidence points to one person in LE.
Needless_Things wrote at TickTockManitowoc:
On 11/03/2005, when Teresa was only reported missing, only her murderer would/should have known it was a "HOMICIDE."
Those systems should have been subpoenaed long ago, since a "system of record" logs whoever made the entry, and that person has a lot of explaining to do, especially since the evidence points to one person in LE.
Needless_Things wrote at TickTockManitowoc:
Strang and Buting were given the MCSD summary reports (including the dispatch logs) in a discovery transfer when they came on board in March of 2006.
NO MCSD AUDIO is handed over to Avery's defense team from their March 2006 request.
PLEASE TAKE NOTE of the LARGE GAP in the MTSO logs, FROM 11/3 6:51 PM until 11/5 10:56 AM, when the RAV4 is found on the Avery property.
THE ABOVE INFO TELLS US THAT Strang and Buting had NO IDEA that any calls were made into MTSO dispatch regarding the Halbach Case on 11/3 and 11/4 prior to the RAV being found on 11/5.
They had NO AUDIO and MTSO DISPATCH LOGS IN THEIR POSSESSION WITH A LARGE GAP IN DATA THAT WAS MISSING.
STRANG AND BUTING didn't discover the AUDIO of Colborn's call until August 9th, 2006.
The Sociopathic Liar – Beware of this Dangerous Sociopath
ReplyDeletePosted on May 30, 2013 by Alex
The one behavior that characterizes the human race is so widespread that most of the time we don’t even notice it. It is extremely hard to spot and it is even harder to stop. It is lying.
Most people have lied in their life. Whether it was to protect feelings, avoid trouble, impress, or to simply get what they want, not many people can say they have never told a lie.
However, there is one extreme type of liar that you should beware of; the sociopathic liar.
On first impressions, you may find you actually like or are drawn to the sociopath. It’s not surprising as more often than not they are indeed charming and likable. Watch out, these type of liars can cause untold damage and mayhem once they lead you into their web of lies and deceit.
Sociopaths lie the most because they are incapable of feelings and do not want to understand the impact of their lies. They may even get a thrill out of lying at your expense. Once they tell an initial lie they go on to tell many more lies in an attempt to cover up the lies they started, or just for the “fun” of it.
A sociopath rarely reveals his or her feelings or emotions. You won’t often hear them laugh, cry, or get angry. These kinds of liars tend to live in their own little world and always find ways to justify their dishonest deeds. They do not respect others and place their own needs first and foremost.
If someone questions the sociopath’s lies they can be incredibly devious in the way they cover things up. This can include placing the blame at someone else’s door or by inventing complex stories to cover up their untruths.
Sociopaths can be so good at lying that they are able to pass lie detector tests. This means they often escape jail or don’t even get prosecuted for the crimes they permit. (That’s not to say all sociopathic liars are criminals, of course).
It is believed by some experts that sociopathic lying is connected to the mental illnesses Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) and Antisocial Personality Disorder (APD).
If you come across someone who you think is a sociopathic liar, beware!
http://www.compulsivelyingdisorder.com/sociopathic-liar/
MCLE planned, carried out, and covered up their involvement in the murder of TH. (self.TickTockManitowoc)
ReplyDeletesubmitted .by jdell408
[–]disguisedeyes 9 points 1 day ago
We get a post like this every couple weeks.
The mistake you are making is looking at the incident from only one direction. That is, you are absolutely correct that "The odds that a random, lust, or love-driven murder occurred on the very day the Avery Bill was to go into effect, and simply fell into MCLE's lap".
Or, that is, you'd be correct in a vacuum.
But in actuality, SA was a local celebrity, the case was all over TV, and anyone who knew about the situation knew local LE hated SA.
Because of that, if you look at the murder from the -other- direction, then you realize anyone who wanted to commit a murder or frame SA would see a perfect opportunity.
The odds no longer are 'astronomically small', because all you need is a motivated, semi-intelligent killer who recognizes that if they can plant a piece of evidence or two, the police will likely have tunnel vision.
And... things with astronomically small odds do occur sometimes. So if someone did randomly murder SA, which I agree is unlikely, they would have found paperwork leading back to SA in the car, which would then give the murderer the idea for a frame assuming they have a brain cell or two.
The frame-up being so haphazard leads me to believe it may have very well been spur of the moment. I personally think a murderer took advantage of obvious timing and well known LE hatred of SA.
[–]bonnieandy2 6 points 1 day ago
Very well put and ST is the type of person you're talking about, with motive, he hated SA and was jealous of any money he might receive?
[–]Thesnakesate 4 points 1 day ago
There were several factors happening at the same time here. While SA is talking about and waiting on monies, the Dassey family is in a turmoil, as well as the Avery's, ST comes along and only exasperates the situation further. Getting BJ to turn on her brother because of her boys.
Then we have the legal aspects going on, many, many in LE are becoming scared, that they too will be in grave trouble because of the 85 case. So we can sum all of this up to, a storm a brewing, with SA in the middle, with no damn clue what's going on.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/798vjz/mcle_planned_carried_out_and_covered_up_their/
[–]disguisedeyes 1 point 1 day ago
ReplyDeleteI don't agree the frameup was well done. It was just 'done'. Oh, let's paint some blood here, throw a bullet there... they knew nobody would look closely, so they just didn't give a flying squirrel. Nobody reads the paper and thinks past 'they found his blood in her car'. The frameup was terrible... but it didn't need to be good. The only reason we're even looking at this is MaM...
I mean, talk about 'astronomically small'... what about the odds the MaM crew happened to be filming during this? Thankfully, they were.
To the original point, I don't think it takes a serial killer. If RH, or BoD, or ST, or a spurned lover, or –anyone - else wanted to kill TH, then this provided the perfect cover.
She visited SA every couple weeks on a regular schedule. She likely talked about it with people she knew, since he was a celeb... "Oh, you've met that guy, haven't you?!".
So all any of those people needed to do was kill her near the auto yard, and maybe do a couple other little things... and the police would take it from there.
I've long thought the killer moved the car to the lot, and the police planted the blood. Though now [with the new evidence] I think the police [with RH's help] moved the car.
But think about it from just BoD's or ST's perspective... let's say BoD was a sex crazed monster like his searches hint. Or ST was mad as hell at SA over whatever. They knew TH came every couple weeks, and they would damn well know if they killed her right after she left the yard, the police would destroy Avery and not even look at them.
This removes all need for the coincidence you talk about in your first post. Instead of being the coincidence to end all coincidences, it becomes part of the actual motive.
[–]bonnieandy2 3 points 1 day ago*
I don't think this, if they did and I don't think it's beyond them, one of their 3 chief planters, AC, was not told hence the phone call, regarding the plates? And they could have made a better job of the whole frame up! It has all the hallmarks of a rushed, botched job. While I understand that finding a murder at the right time and place is like winning the lottery but sometimes, someone does win. I believe they were watching the ASY for anything big to plant on him and could have encouraged someone who knew the family to help them out, but RH is still most likely for me. It may turnout to be ST, with BoD who knows, but it's not KZ's job to find out, it's her's to get SA out and right the injustice! This she won't ever do by saying it's LE, even that they conspired to plant all the evidence, she can only point at one or two rogue cops, at best. No court will every hear it was all of MCSO along with Wisconsin DoJ! (Hence the cock and bull story of RH sneaking into Steven's trailer to steal the blood, that was 100% LE, but she can't say that! She just has to offer up an alternative theory for all planted evidence. ) This will only be solved by a completely outside body like (capitol) FBI, if SA ever gets out and someone really has to investigate.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/798vjz/mcle_planned_carried_out_and_covered_up_their/
He did not ever ask me for one red cent!!
ReplyDelete[–]CaseFileReviewer
ReplyDeleteI don’t believe anything DP says! Her testimony, regarding TH calling at 2:27, was proven wrong by TH’s own phone record. Per the CASO report, on 11/4 another AutoTrader employee reported she overheard DP saying she overheard another employee saying Avery called on 11/3 to reschedule the 10/31 appointment claiming TH did not show up. Yet, the MTSO reporting shows SA was question on 11/3 and stated TH did in fact show up. DP seems little more than office busybody, to me, so I trust forensic data far more than information coming from DP.
[–]CaseFileReviewer
DP can't be left out, since it was her testimony. Per the trial transcripts (TT D2/P43/L18-21) at the end of the day the information is first faxed to DP (that would have been done from TH's home) and then TH ships the information along with the money to DP (TT D2/P43/L7-8).
DP's label claim makes no sense! In order for that to be accurate TH would have to: go to the UPS store to pickup up the labels, go home to fax the information, then go back to the UPS store to ship the information & money to DP. Clearly, TH would be unable to fax the information to DP if she had already shipped it. Again, I find no reason to believe DP.
[–]CaseFileReviewer
My primary point is the information came from DP and she proven to be not a reliable source by TH's own phone records. Additionally, the hearsay of DP's hearsay was disproved by the investigative reports.
Thus, it seems DP conversation was little more than the spreading of office rumor. It is for this reason I do not consider DP a reliable source and I do not believe claim TH was going to go to UPS store after work.
[–]CaseFileReviewer
DP also said she checked the clock, to know it was 2:27 when TH called, because she thought it was odd TH would be calling so late. DP was also overheard saying she overheard an AutoTrader employee claiming SA called on the 3rd, to reschedule the 10/31 because SA didn't show up, after SA had already told LE that TH had been there.
Why should I believe DP? She was proven wrong by both TH's own phone records and the LE reporting.
[–]CaseFileReviewer
DP's label claim is likely as non-existing as TH calling her and claiming she checked the time when she saw it was TH calling because she thought 2:27 was late.
Besides why would DP send someone on a 30 minute drive, to pickup labels in Green Bay, when there is a UPS Store in the same building as AutoTrader in Hales Corners?
self.MakingaMurderer
ReplyDeleteby freerudyguede
Long time residents here know there are only two types of contributors to this subreddit.
A. People who believe Steven Avery is innocent and openly declare it and
B. People who believe Steven Avery is innocent and for reasons only known to themselves publicly deny it.
And Group B has started to become particularly florid in their group-lies of late.
The most recent one is, is that if only we had the DCI report we would all see how guilty Steven Avery really is. Further, so the story goes, a panicked Zellner took one look at it and immediately demanded the Court sealed it. HOWEVER, one particularly privileged reddit member was able to read it cover to cover and she was shocked, SHOCKED.
Lets take these back to front:
We all know who the reddit user who claims to have read it. She is a lovely person, but completely batty and also claims the RAV4 is completely dismantled, that she is seen Brad C. naked and has a habit of expressing her thanks with flowers to judicial officers. In short, she is as nutty as the proverbial Christmas cake.
Skipp requested the DCI records and was denied. The letter setting out the reasons is here: http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/DOJ-Records-Request-Denial_redacted.pdf And while some of the reasons are not completely without merit, at no point does the "Office of Open Government" state there is a court order from Avery's defense attorney preventing their release. I am not sure of the ethics of Zellner independently releasing parts of the file outside of her motions - I suspect it would be frowned upon. Personally I think she should release all the Crime Lab records.
Is the DCI report so damning we would all immediately conclude he is guilty? I seem to recall that was precisely what was said about the CASO report and while superficially the CASO report did contain many statements that were prejudicial to Steven Avery, they also did not impress one as particularly reliable. But more importantly the CASO report revealed precisely how evidence handling had been deliberately tampered with.
In my view the DCI report would be the same. We have already seen snippets of Barb J's very lengthy statement on November 6 - which she fails to recall the massive bonfire that took place that night. And it would certainly be fascinating to see the documentation behind the mysterious "she never turned up" phone-call.
Which is probably why we are never going to see it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/7vnqu0/zellner_sealed_the_dci_report_and_other_insane/